Thread 715926367

You can't just slap 2D Mario's momentum and physics into a 3D game with no care how it actually functions. 2D Mario's momentum and physics work within the context of that 2D environment where you always have a perfect view and perspective of the action; it's significantly worse in a 3D environment where you are constantly fighting the camera and there are fundamental limitations to perspective and depth perception.

This movement is actually why the level design is so barebones and underwhelming - you have a dozen different jump types, analog movement, analog jumps, heavy momentum, and slippery surfaces, but yet blundered the most foundational basics like camera control and depth perception. These were never an issue in 2D, so they just were not accounted for in the move to 3D. The result is levels with no interesting enemies, no interesting hazards, and no 'flow', just a big set of disjointed jumps, where the primary difficulty is fighting the camera and perspective more than the level design.

Seeing a platformer propped up as one of the greatest games of all time purely because it was one of the first 3D platformers and had creative movement is asinine. There are so many other important elements to a platformer, such as level design, hazard design, enemy design, boss design, camera, atmosphere, artstyle, etc., all of which are mediocre to poor in Mario 64. And absolute most egregious of of all: there is no structure to the levels - you just wander like a dickhead on a gay easter egg hunt, before finally getting booted out and told to just retread the whole level again from the beginning six more times.

Filtered by a children's game lmao

>>715926367 (OP)
I had fun with it. That's all that matters to me.

It was quite the revelation to find out that people considering prancing around like a little faggot in empty levels collecting rocks and piece of trash, before being kicked out and repeating that six more times, as the peak of the platforming genre.

Any criticism to any aspect of this game is immediately met with stomping and flailing while screaming
>MUH MOVEMENT!!! MUH MOVEMENT!!!!
over and over again.

People don't even see this as a platformer, but just as an autistic toolbox for speedtrooning and romhacks.

OP here. I'm trans btw. Not sure if that matters.

Super Mario 64 has stood the test of time for me like no other game has. I could start a new game right now and it might hook me all the way to killing Bowser for the third time and getting Princess Peach's cake.

The only part of the game that I think is poorly designed is the rainbow road star where you have to sit on a carpet, and the reason it sucks is because if you fuck it up, you'll have to restart from the beginning and just sit there on an annoying ass slow moving carpet all the way again. That is the only star of the game that fucks up the flow of the gameplay, and it only really matters if you A) fuck it up and have to restart B) you are actually going for all the stars in your playthrough.

>>715926367 (OP)
Mario 64 is so fucking trash compared to Crash.

>absolutely atrocious camera constantly getting stuck on terrain, spazzing out, facing the wrong direction, refusing to go where you want it to
>slippery and awkward controls, especially in underwater and snow levels
>2D Mario's momentum and physics work in a 2D environment where you always have a perfect view and perspective of the action; it's significantly worse in a 3D environment where you are constantly fighting the camera and there are fundamental limitations to perspective/depth perception
>these momentum and physics are especially egregious when the movement is relative to aforementioned awful automatic camera that refuses to go where you want
>constantly boots you out after every star and makes you retread each stage a half dozen times all the way from the beginning of the stage with a tiny stupid piecemeal change
>dial a combo system for platforming is just extra abstraction bullshit that further separates the game from feeling like a natural extension of self
>overall level/enemy/hazard design are extremely basic and boring, mainly as a result of the extremely open-ended movement combined with the dogshit camera
>constant easter egg hunt for random bullshit grows old very quick
It feels like a glorified fucking tech demo for 3D movement. You need fucking 6 inch thick nostalgia goggles to still convince yourself it holds up today

>>715926367 (OP)
Mario 64 isn't a 3D Mario game, it's a 3D game with Mario. Its game design phylosophy is completely different from 2D Mario to the point it's basically a new franchise. But the most insulting part is how devs treat contents. What matters to them is having ideas and showing them off, not making said ideas interesting to play and serving the level design. Long story short, Mario 64 has the actual potential to grow into a long series of masterpieces, but Nintendo devs do not care about those masterpieces, all they want is for people to fellate them for having ideas, so once the game is done, they let it rot and go on to make another ego trip that only please themselves, rinse and repeat.

>>715927072
This. Crash feels like how a 3D Mario game should have been realized.

>>715927007
>Mario 64 is so fucking trash compared to Crash
The actual potential of Mario 64 far outclasses Crash, but the big difference in execution stems from the fact Mario 64 is a game made for the devs while Crash is a game made for the players.

>>715926367 (OP)
Mario 64 was one of the renowned pioneers for 3d camera controls. You want a 3d Mario with shitty camera? Take Galaxy. Camera control ranges from limited at best to non-existant and vomit-inducing.

>>715927606
Galaxy has a miles better camera than 64.

>>715926367 (OP)
Anti-64 fags again proving they're retarded. The camera is literally fine, just because it doesn't control like a camera in every game today doesn't somehow make the game bad. You can instantly turn the screen in the direction you want and in the rare cases the camera does actually get stuck you can just press R to readjust. I say this as someone with no nostalgia for the game. Not being able to adjust to the camera is a skill and player issue.
>but I have to go back into a level again after getting kicked out
This complaint barely even makes sense for most levels because most of them allow you to branch out into very different directions as soon as you start the level. The levels are built around you exploring them and doing different tasks tied to different stars in different parts of the sandbox style level. Pretending that getting booted out of the levels ruins the game is a major exaggeration.

>>715927734
Galaxy has atrocious camera that wigs out when you run around a small planetoid, which the game is full of. Never had an issue with SM64 camera.

>>715927756
>The camera is literally fine,
Fuck no. It's absolutely atrocious constantly getting stuck on terrain, spazzing out, facing the wrong direction, and refusing to go where you want it to. It's especially egregious because the movement is relative to aforementioned awful automatic camera that refuses to go where you want.

>This complaint barely even makes sense for most levels because most of them allow you to branch out into very different directions as soon as you start the level.
How the fuck do you honestly defend the game booting you out and forcing you to start from the beginning SEVEN FUCKING TIMES per stage? Do you even hear yourself right now?

Sure, some levels have alternate paths, but not fucking seven of them. It's just an extremely lazy and shitty way to pad levels that are already extremely dull and barebones.

>>715927072
Which Crash game are you talking about. All the ones I've played were just corridor simulators so the camera comparisons aren't exactly fair.

>>715926367 (OP)
it functioned perfectly fine zoomer and i beat it when i was 8 years old. what the fuck is up with you zoomers not being able to play any games?

>>715927976
>SEVEN FUCKING TIMES per stage?
You don't need 120 stars to beat the game.

>>715928742
>>715927756
Not to mention the fact that getting the 100 coin star doesn't boot you out.

>>715927976
>Fuck no. It's absolutely atrocious constantly getting stuck on terrain, spazzing out, facing the wrong direction blah blah blah I suck nigger penis
Get better at controlling the camera? It's really an adequate camera.
>How the fuck do you honestly defend the game booting you out and forcing you to start from the beginning SEVEN FUCKING TIMES per stage
I'm arguing against the notion that this somehow ruins the game when it's actually just a pretty minor issue that only really rears its head in a few levels like tick tock clock and tall tall mountain. If it's really that much of a problem for you then you can switch frequently between courses. It rarely takes long at all to get from any one point of the level to another. You are playing a game with open sandbox style levels where the objective changes every time, you are not being put back to the start of a railroaded experience. I would question your attention span if you're really going to sperg out at this.

>>715928206
>what the fuck is up with you zoomers
Internet trolling is "allowed microaggressions" and you're evil if you don't feed them. Daring to announcement your wisdom (which goes in all fields) is illegal.

>>715929038
>having to retread each level seven fucking times is only a minor issue
Tendie drones, everyone. Then again, you fucking retard pay $100 for cardboard, why am I surprised?

>>715929131
Do you pay $1200 for monthly rent?

>>715929131
>bringing up brand wars and a console system that came out 30 years later out of nowhere because he, in fact, is the brand war drone and has now revealed himself as such, terminating any claims to impartiality
Mental illness. You are not retreading each level seven times, you are going to different places in the level. You aren't losing much time by starting from a halfway point in a level compared to the start, especially when the next star may be just as close to the start as it is to that point. There are also missions like the red coins that barely matter for where you would start.
This is on top of movement being intrinsically fun and highly satisfying so that longjumping or triple jumping to an area isn't bothersome, you're really crying over spilled milk.

>>715927007
Crash is a simple little game. Very little room for complexity and innovative gameplay strategy. I love both these games, but they are by no means in the same league. The ONLY thing Crash ***potentially*** has over SM64, is style and atmosphere and those things are highly subjective.

>/v/eddit said 3D All Stars would cause new hate for Mario Sunshine
>years later 64 is the one that keeps getting criticized
KWAB

>>715930018
Exactly. Comparing Crash to Mario 64 is like comparing a tight hallway sprint to a parkour playground. Crash is a rollercoaster-fun and polished but on rails. Mario 64 gives you control, freedom, and space to experiment. That's the whole point. People these days call the movement "jank" because they can’t wrap their heads around a platformer that actually gives you options. It’s not perfect, but it laid the groundwork for everything that came after it. Saying it's "trash" compared to Crash is just an extremely shallow take.

>>715926367 (OP)
>>715926761
OP here, accidentally posted the wrong picture the first time.

>>715926367 (OP)
Yet its the only Mario game I liked. Curious.

>>715930018
Nobody would say 2D Mario is a shallow, simple game with only left, right, jump and acceleration (technically run, but you just hold run the whole time anyways), but yet this bullshit always gets thrown at Crash.

The issue with Mario 64 is as it's wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle. It gives you all these frivolous movement options, but there is little niche or tradeoff for any of them. It has so much freedom in movement but utterly barebones and boring levels with no interesting hazards, enemies, or platforming. It has all this movement tech, but totally flounders the fundamentals of movement and depth perception, which is why the levels just consist of segmented series of basic jumps, and the main obstacle is the shitty camera and poor depth perception. Mario 64 just throws shit at the wall and hopes it sticks. It's more of a toolbox for autistic speedtrooners and romhacks than an actual game.

Sorry but this is retarded and im saying it as a sonicchad. The controls are the best part

>>715927161
You wanted Mario 64 just to be a basic platformer but in 3D? I like Crash but it did nothing to change games going forward. Mario 64 was revolutionary in what it can offer, even if the technology wasn't quite ready, and it's still being played today by a lot of people. For every 5 people who whine about it having bad controls and camera, there's another 95 people who sucked it up and learned the game's mechanics and loved it.

>>715932150
No, dumbfuck, it's trash because the level design, hazard design, enemy design, boss design, camera, artstyle, and pacing are all straight fucking dogshit. Having a lot of movement options does not carry a platformer, and if anything, it just kills the fucking level design because it can't flow and be suited to a movement style, because there isn't a movement style in Mario 64, it's just an indecisive, experimental amalgamation of garbage.

And no, wandering around like a jackass looking for little gay easter eggs before the game decides to boot you out and start you back at the beginning to make you repeat the level six more times is not some incredible player freedom, it's just a lazy, unfocused, padded mess.

>>715933212
>it did nothing to change games going forward.
>which is why no games copy Mario 64's shitty movement system, while all the most beloved platformers copy Crash's semi-linear hazard corridor structure with a limited but meaningful movement system that levels are designed around
Whatever you say retard.

The only long-term impact Mario 64 had was creating the most gay and boring genre known to man: the snoozeath- I mean collectathon

All M64's camera needed was an option to force and hold it to appear behind Mario, like OoT did. The camera in the game was fine, up until it runs into a wall, and then you're stuck either dealing with it, or tapping R to get into Mario-camera mode and fussing with it from there.

>>715933483
>Mario 64 created "collectathons"
lol
>I hate earning
>GIVE ME EVERYTHING
>RIGHT NOW
lmao