Did this video destroy perception of the 3D Zelda formula so much that Nintendo was forced to pivot to BotW?

i hate when criticisms I've arrived at years before are echoed in an eceleb vid so if I ever raise such valid points in a discussion it's just "parrot" this "parrot" that. ecelebs are cancer. hope this thread gets deleted

It came out after they started developing BotW, so no. Also ecelebs have no influence on the real world.

>>716001232 (OP)
Arin is the last person you'd ever go to on advice on how to design a videogame. He gets filtered 100x more in vidya than even DSP and that isn't an exaggeration.

>>716001232 (OP)
I was a huge faggot for Egoraptor as a youngin but even I though most of his argument was garbage.

The only thing it destroyed was Egoraptor's reputation as a guy who knows anything about video games.

>>716001434
So your problem is you're mad these people were smart enough to actually present their ideas to the public first and got credit for it but not you even though you're the "idea" man?
That's fucking pathetic

>>716001569
Reading comprehension in shambles

>>716001232 (OP)
I get his frustration of changing from four direction 2D to 360 degree 3D means projectiles suddenly become a lot worse to just spam, necessitating the development of the Z-target, but honestly lock-on is so important to differentiate an action game from a hack and slash that I can;t imagine them not developing some sort of lock-on system even if they had left out projectiles in Ocarina for some reason.

>>716001673
Yeah your- sorry, "HIS" reading comprehension is fucking stupid.
Maybe if he wasn't such an insecure child he'd be okay with other people having different opinions

>>716001232 (OP)
He was right

>maaan why the fuck is it so slooow it has to pan the camera over to tell you what you did, a 2D game where rooms weren't often bigger than the screen didn't have to do that! why can't it be like the 2D games, everything was so fast, why did they have to slow it down in 3D

>>716001895
This

this is how you don't play OoT/MM
thank you for your time, OP

>>716001895
He was right that eye switch puzzles are pedantic. But everything else was him being an ADHD spastic who refuses to try anything different in a game

>>716001434
but his entire criticism is "WAHH WAHH OOT SUCKS BECAUSE IT'S NOT LTTP"
and then you go watch the game grumps OOT playthrough and realize that arin hates OOT because he's awful at it

>>716001232 (OP)
Counter argument: Arin is a literal braindead autist who can't picture stuff in his head, can't understand that people perceive things differently than him and believes immersion isn't a thing and everyone is lying about feeling immersed when it comes to video games.

>>716001232 (OP)
BOTW was in development while this video came out.

>>716001895
this tbdesu

>>716001895
>>716002160
>>716003954
What was he right about in your opinion?

>>716001569
NTA, but the issue seems to be that whenever he voices an opinion that an eceleb also has, he gets accused of being a retard who just parrots what the eceleb is saying and ends up being completely dismissed because of that.
Anyway, have a kot because I don't know what other file to post.

>>716001232 (OP)
Video games, faggot, VIDEO GAMES!

>>716004437
funny how you never post this in SKG threads

>>716003748
You sound unwell

>>716004437
Yes anon, OoT and ALttP are video games

>>716004528
egoraptor is not a videogame

>>716004515
In what way? I'm just stating facts about Arin (things he has said about himself multiple times before)

>>716004593
Then why are you talking about him?

>>716001232 (OP)
No, Skyward Sword was proof enough that the formula at the time was starting to get stale

>>716004437
Yes anon Zelda is a video game

>>716001232 (OP)
No. The "uuuugh the franchise is so STALE we should do something entirely different" argument is older than this retard and his lack of spatial reasoning.

>>716004849
no?

>>716004765
Explain how any of skyward sword's negative traits are from the "formula". In my view, most everything it does wrong is something it was trying to do differently.

>>716004214
Nothing im just bipolar and trans and i have no idea what im talking about

>>716004715
because OP made a thread about him, which I am telling to fuck off because it's not videogames

>>716001232 (OP)
>getting hit by an obstacle that's consistently, repetitively, predictable rotating around a platform is just BAD FUCKING DESIGN
>in a top down game you SEE THAT SHIT, but in a game with a third person camera, OOPS

>>716004849
Not really

>>716004437
Youre doing gods work anon

>>716004979
nah people were sick of the slow pacing, situational items, sparse overworlds, obligatory gimmick, story rehash and complete lack of challenge, the controls being raped was just the cherry on top

ablw was good though, I hope we get a top down game without a funko pop artstyle at some point

>>716005229
None of those things come from the formula and blaming them on it rather than on Aonuma's fundamental failure to understand game design is letting him get away with shit.

The Capcom Zeldas are the best desu

>>716003171
He also sucks at LttP. He just sucks at Zelda games in general

>>716005390
What is your idea of the formula then? Take the question in good faith since I'm not attached to any opinion

His video about MMX was pretty good and made a lot of sense.

>>716005860
I mean in terms of the gist, it does really highlight how good MMX's design was. In terms of the execution, using the whole MEGA MAN MEGA MAN gag doesn't even make sense because only later X games actually did that, unless he was playing Navi Mode on the Anniversary Collection for optional hint bits and just took that at face value as an example.
Bitching about Alia in X5 constantly interrupting the game? Perfectly valid. Having Roll as an example of interrupting gameplay for arbitrary bullshit? Never happened.

>>716005860
it made sense because it was calling the sky blue, although it was like wave 0 of game design vidya essays which is why people cared

>>716004214
Matthewmatosis did a better video on the same issue Arin has, without focusing on Ocarina and discussing many other examples of similar design problems
https://youtu.be/pl9G4voWfDQ?feature=shared&t=1039
If you watch a minute on from the timestamp, you get the thrust of the argument (although it will make more sense if you watch the whole video)
>...because when a player presses the lock-on button, an algorithm must decide which target to face, which means, for a split second, the game is essentially playing itself

Arin's complaint essentially boils down to Ocarina of Time (and 3D games in general, although he doesn't say it) being too complex for 1-to-1 player input to game output interactions, where the game almost perfectly reflects the player's willed actions.
This is true.
It's an issue Matthewmatosis brings up, but in order to properly control 3D games, we'd really have to invent a kind of sensor or joystick that detects movement in 3 dimensions, as opposed to joysticks and d-pads which detect movement in 2 dimensions.

All 3D games are basically designed as if they are still 2D games, and take design shortcuts to account for the extra dimension - and this results in games that are sloppy to control and play compared to their true 2D counterparts. Games which are less satisfying to control and get good at.

>>716006026
I think that was just an stand-in for generic over tutorialization of contemporary gaming

funny aside but I was listening to a retrospective video on those sequelitis videos (I'm gay) and the zoomer youtuber made sure to point out how arin's avatar punching roll was problematic. Very funny.

>>716006026
>In terms of the execution, using the whole MEGA MAN MEGA MAN gag doesn't even make sense because only later X games actually did that
Do you have an inner monologue?
The joke he was making was "what if the original games did that, wouldn't it be annoying?"
Because it is annoying in the later games, and he was illustrating how the earlier games didn't need that.

How can people like you exist

game design video essayist threads are enjoyable, and I'm tired of pretending they're not

>>716006580
Somehow discussing and dissing game design essayists actually invokes more discussion over game design than in threads about games themselves in efforts to counter-argue or shut down the essays.

>>716006580
Why were you pretending?

>>716001457
That was the real issue. When he brought these videos out everyone thought they were well thought out and funny and all that jazz, then he started his letsplay channel and it became very clear that he's too stubborn to learn at best or a total retard at worst.

>>716001232 (OP)
It's really nice that these shitty videos that used to be taken seriously by kids on the internet as some real valuable source of knowledge are now a joke after seeing how bad the person behind them is at games.

>>716006941
Ocarina of Time and Sonic Adventure are badly designed and no amount of seething over Arin will change that.

>>716003171
Here, since you clearly didn't watch the video

These are his main issues with OoT
1) scenes that are really slow for no reason like opening chests and hitting switches (what, are you gonna defend that as a good thing?)
2) things from 2D Zelda that doesn't translate well to 3D. This mainly refers to things that can easily get in your blind spot or are hard to track multiple of (since you need z-target). Examples include flying bats, sliding spikes, and enemy swarms. (Not his best point, but I do think you can do more interesting things in 3D instead of taking from 2D)
3) items are predictable, unlike AlttP which weren't always used against the dungeon boss
4) lots of shitty enemies that have a long invincibility period for no reason, forcing you to WAIT. Inversely he really likes the Iron Knuckle because you can hurt it whenever and it can destroy the environment. He also thinks 1v1 battles are much cooler in 3D.

>>716007026
Hmmmm...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... but they aren't.

>>716007026
Why is Ocarina of Time badly designed?

>>716007026
>Sonic Adventure
Imagine dying to Chaos 0, the easiest boss in existence, and then trying to blame the game for that
Imagine using a guide for Knuckles and then getting mad that the emerald pieces are rng and doxxing the creator of the guide who was like 15 years old when he made that because you were too stupid to realize anything

>>716001232 (OP)
No. It didn't.
First off, the video is bad. It's Arin shouting into a megaphone "I suck shit at video games and know even less about their design." All the criticisms amount to him being the kind of moron who struggles for a game made for literal ten year olds.
And secondly, Ocarina of Time is genuinely one of the most beloved games of all time. There's a reason it served as the template for zelda games and a bunch of other action games not made by nintendo for years and years to come. Mechanically, Breath of the Wild shares a ton of DNA with OoT, with the main differences between them being that BotW also looked at the ubisoft open world games (most notably assassin's creed), ripped that off and applied it to the Zelda formula.

Also, a game like BotW doesn't get made in 3 years. Do you really think some internet nobody caused Nintendo to slam on the breaks and changed BotW design?

>>716001569
Retard

still never watched a sequlitis (is that the name?) but i watch game grumps every week.

>>716007185
Oh fuck off, they didn't know that dipshit put his real name on his faq.

>>716007026
I'm not going to say that sonic adventure is some masterclass in game design. It's not. It's a game that hasn't aged super great.

But also, yeah, it was a pretty good attempt at translating the idea of Sonic into a 3d Platformer. Yeah, there are goofy design decisions and it's buggy as hell. But it also generally does capture the feeling of a Sonic game.

>>716007185
I'm always baffled that they couldn't figure out shit that I did on my own when I was 11.

>>716003748
You sound exceptionally well and this is true

>>716001232 (OP)
Everything you need to know about this faggot's opinion about this game can be gleaned from simply watching him play it lmfao

youtube.com/watch?v=fJg3HP36FrM

>>716007115
They are very badly designed no matter how many periods you type.

>>716007531
You had infinite free time and weren't being asked to perform for an audience of hyper-critical autists.

>>716007336
>It's not their fault that they didn't read the guide they were bashing
Fucking kek

>>716007669
Yeah dude, I'm sure you read the whole fucking ToS and don't just scroll to the part that matters.

Fuck off.

>>716007384
Sonic Adventure isn't particularly buggy. It has some bad ports that add some bugs which you can't blame the original for, but most of the shit you see online where someone is like falling through the ground or whatever is nothing you'd encounter on a normal paythrough if you're not trying to break the game on purpose for a youtube video.
The controls feel pretty janky though, I'll give it that.

>>716007153
Bad controls.
Pretty much everything that makes Ocarina of Time beloved and well remembered has to do with the "vibe", the art, the music, the setting - which are all frankly great, I can't deny that.
But it also controls pretty badly.

>>716007384
>But also, yeah, it was a pretty good attempt at translating the idea of Sonic into a 3d Platformer.
I'll be honest anon, Sonic is badly designed even in 2D.
Momentum based gameplay and precision platforming are simply not fun together.

>>716007709
>ToS
It was a gamefaqs guide with the name at the top kek
Do I read a ToS to understand what I'm supposed to do? No. But you are supposed to read a game guide to understand what to do which they couldn't even do that right kek

>>716007531
Some part of it is trying to live stream and be funny at the same time, a brain multi-tasking can be fucky and especially if you're some ADHD jackass. The other part of it is that Arin just can't fucking concentrate on more than a single individual thing before him at a time, and he's utterly stubborn about not backtracking on a first impression. He'll enter a room, break a pot reflexively and pick up the goodie, then forget why he entered the room. He'll run by signs that all point him to where he needs to go and then wonder how he got lost. He'll try to figure out a weakness and then just keep using something that didn't work because clearly it should be working.

>>716007760
>bad controls
How in the everliving hell does OoT control badly? If you're emulating/playing on modern hardware and accounting for the Slingshot / Bow aim, sure, that's usually overly sensitive since it was designed for the N64 stick's exact design that everything else overcompensates on, but Ocarina is smooth as butter man. Contextual actions never get in the way, Link can instantly change direction on a dime, there's no Dark Souls-isms of major action commitment besides a jump slash that resolves super fast. And that's shit that carried into and got expanded in subsequent games, and no one complains there, just about the excessive tutorialization that took hold.