What the FUCK went wrong?

Phase 1 raid was kino
Phase 2 raid was anti-melee so I uninstalled
No clue what happened afterwards

more like Season of Dick Suckery haha

>>716014923 (OP)
incursions was a big part of what went wrong. They were tedious and also created imbalance in the economy. You felt like you were falling behind by doing them, but doing them was not fun at all.

They should have just designed the incursion zones like typically a MMO grinding zone with exclusive collectibles for quests rather than repeatable kill quests. have incursion specific mats and recipies, have rare spawns similar to devilsaurs, have rep grinds where you turn in faction specific drops. People would grind and world PvP in the zone like it was just another wow zone, rather than some weird phone game type gameplay that we got.

Instead of doing classic+ blizzard jerked off to stolen breat milk and just threw wrath content into classic.

>>716015567
>You felt like you were falling behind by NOT doing them
fixed

>>716014923 (OP)
>entire gimmick is "discovering" new content like runes
>runes are just retail abilities
>eventually they just give them to you for free at lvl 1 and you don't have to discover anything
>then they add a permanent exp boost while levelling and incursions and invasions so you can just completely ignore the vanilla content and skip straight to end game without discovering anything at all

>>716015567
>They were tedious and also created imbalance in the economy
>Spend 10 hours questing and walk away with 250g
>spend 9 hours in dungeon farms and walk away with 150g
>spend 6 hours in ashenvale incursions and walk away with full epic mount money in cash + drops + 2/3rds of your prebis gear

>>716014923 (OP)
Nothing. It was beta testing for classic+.

>>716014923 (OP)
The level 25-40 grind being entirely inside instances instead of "discovering" new stuff in the world, followed by Gnomeregan of all things for the raid.

The nail in the coffin was Phase 3 switching to 20 mans for raid. It wasn't incursions.

>>716018007
>classic+
What's this? I don't like the sound of this.

>>716018240
A continuation of vanilla WoW where all those old unused zones and old myths of certain areas might come true. Think of it like a vanilla WoW expansion.

>>716014923 (OP)
they had the right idea in the first phase as >>716015219 said. frankly i believe they should have gone slower than they did. end phase 2 at level 25 (or hell, how about giving people 1 new level per week?). they should have focused on horizontal content now so they could re-use it later. for example, the focus should have been on new professions, minigames, areas, etc. instead it became evident they were just doing the same WoW cycle as always, level up -> gear up -> raidlog

>>716017908
I assume this post is agreeing with me because yeah, on top of not being fun it trivialized all the other parts of the game in terms of gold making. bad design no matter how you look at it.

>>716018007
>>716018632
They could never pull it off. Jagex has been successful with OSRS but they are transparent with changes and only do changes if the community votes for it. Can you honestly imagine BLIZZARD allowing their customers to vote for what they want? Blizzard is far too corporate at this point for it to ever be possible. Shareholders would be shitting their pants if they learned that CUSTOMERS are the ones determining what gets worked on.

>>716018632
I love the idea of it. I always prefer regional threats and baddies to this nonsense multiverse destroying nonsense it has been for like 10 fucking years. A scarlet crusade raid sounds rad as fuck. Turn ZF into a raid and remake Uldum so it's not completely retarded.

>>716019028
This is the company that used to make binary choices like "we could do X but do you want that or another raid tier hmm?" I can't see them splitting the meager development team to actually do anything meaningful with classic+. It's also a tacit admission that retail is fucked.

I am freaking out that everyone is abandoning the server like a bunch of NPCs. I've been farming gold, doing searing gorge dailies every day for months, and it's all going to be worthless if everyone leaves. STOP QUITTING SOD. STOP PLAYING CATASLOP.

>>716019221
absolutely agreed. anyone who has faith that blizzard can handle this is huffing copium. there is obviously 0 incentive at blizzard for the developers to "go above and beyond". never forget they made a joke in WoD with a gravestone for "Ray D. Tear" as a joke that the development time making garrisons meant they couldn't make a raid tier. seriously, no one could even slap together some basic raid just so people had SOMETHING to do? it would probably take 2-3 nerds a weekend to bang that out

>>716014923 (OP)
theres too many fucking modes just like Overwatch they added too much random shit making the game a mess

i dont even know whos playing what half the time hardcore, classic, cataclysm, SoD, anniversary, hardcore anniversary, MoP classic

like what???

although im waiting for TBC hardcore

I loved phase 1 and phase 2. phase 3 was so bad i stopped playing. the raids in 1 and 2 were fun and not hard enough for shitters so pugs happened, the blood moon event was chaotic but genuinely really fun. there was lots of ways to get gear and finding the runes was lots of fun. it feels like p1 and p2 were designed by a different team who had a different vision

>>716019028
To be honest I don't think classic players should be given the right to vote on patches like osrs, do you really want chinese bugmen and sooky boomers to have the majority say? These people genuinely don't know what they want just go look at the classic wow r*ddits

>What the FUCK went wrong?
The modern playerbase(mazed meta rats) and modern devs(maximize profit with the least effort possible).

>>716014923 (OP)
>"season of discovery"
>everything is datamined and theorycrafted before it even releases
Whats being discovered exactly?

>>716014923 (OP)
I thought the first two phases were kinda good, it wasn't the crazy sweeping changes everyone was expecting in a form of classic+, but it added enough to be fresh enough and some mystery for where it might've gone.
Phase 3 was where they dropped the ball, incursions were buggy as fuck but absolutely mandatory for how efficient it was for leveling, getting gold and getting geared.

To a lesser but still important extent however, the classic community was just ass. Even in phase 1 and 2, you had the sweats trying to push for gearscore and whatever metrics to filter people for content that was piss easy as long as you had a pulse.

>>716021364
It's genuinely surprising to me just how fucked classic players are. I would almost argue they're worse than your average retail player but that's not saying a whole lot.

>>716021364
Are you just forgetting the reason for polling on purpose or is this some sort of contrarian larp? You’re fucking disingenuous and you know it. If osrs didn’t have polling it would have died in a year. Jagex would have ruined it in a year with their shit ideas and incompetent pathological modernization fetish. The WHOLE POINT of the voting system is to stop Jagfags from implementing their shit ideas because the dedicated playerbase knows the game better than the shitty newly hired ship of Theseus devs. The people who made RS1-2 great no longer develop the game. The point of polling is that players who KNOW what made early RuneScape good can stop shitty devs and their shitty ideas that made RS3 RS3
Fuck off back to r/2007scape where you got your anti-polling contrarian shit fetish from

>>716014923 (OP)
During phase 3 or 4 they introduced emerald nightmare dailies and power leveling as well as increased gold. this fucked up the economy and leveling system so a lot of people left.
I'm still having enjoying it, but they really dropped the ball. A lot of unfinished content in Classic could have been used but they didn't do much with it. some of the stuff was neat. PvP was an even more imbalanced shitfest.

>>716021364
i tend to agree that classic players aren't the greatest, but I think it could still work since the majority of people aren't raidloggers or minmaxers, meaning they would tend to vote towards content that isn't just endgame instances or tryhard shit. i think there is a huge silent majority that would be able to steer the game into having good content.

>>716014923 (OP)
They used it as a testing ground to experiment with changes so they have a better idea of how to make REAL c+.
Okay, sure. I believe that excuse.
But then their experiments were the exact type of shit every crappy pserver has already empirically demonstrated 10 times over (dude I know how to nerf warriors, let's give raidbosses five billion armor!! this'll surely fix the entire problem with zero side effects), or the kind of shit that anybody with 2 neurons to rub together would have told you was a bad idea to begin with (the entirety of every single fucking PvP event they slapped together, particularly the first drafts, which they were forced to backtrack on).
So I'm not sure what the value of these experiments was when your average player could have told you the exact results without needing the experiment in the first place.

>>716021973
The classic community 100% sabotaged itself. Phase 1 and 2 were actually kinda innovative in a weird cobbled-together way, but the moment some dude in a spreadsheet decided what the "optimal" BiS was, the whole thing became Retail Lite. You had people linking their gear in DM groups like it's frickin' Heroic Sarkareth. Bro it's Deadmines, you're not optimizing a nuclear reactor.

And yeah, incursions were like forced content at gunpoint. Buggy, laggy, zero soul - but if you *didn’t* do them you could forget about being invited anywhere. Blizzard doesn’t even have to ruin things anymore, the players do it for them.

>>716021973
I'd argue the wheels started to come off as soon as P2 released. Thats when things started getting absurd, with hybrid casters having absurd burst damage/cc + healing, enhancement shaman becoming raid bosses, instant cast spell spam like in retail, hunters spamming frost trap+entrapment across the battlefield, meta tanks mogging other tanks ect.

Compare that to Phase 1. The only outlandish thing I remember from Phase 1 was Hunters and their pet scaling being too strong for awhile. Otherwise it felt pretty close to vanilla.

blaming MMO players for taking the most efficient route even when it's unfun is like blaming your dog for drinking toilet water
the dog is a dog and that will never change
but you're the retard that can't close the bathroom door

>>716023978
>Compare that to Phase 1. The only outlandish thing I remember from Phase 1 was Hunters and their pet scaling being too strong for awhile. Otherwise it felt pretty close to vanilla.

or 1 shotting people with Starsurge

>>716023978
Shamans were stupidly OP in p1, particularly tank specs

>>716014923 (OP)
Making raids the end game instead of leveling/unlocking new abilities

>>716021973
>Even in phase 1 and 2, you had the sweats trying to push for gearscore and whatever metrics to filter people for content that was piss easy as long as you had a pulse.
what server were you on? I was on Lava Lash and people were just fine walking into BFD with greens.
I did hear that another server had a massive problem with people doing the GDKP runs, or whatever the system was for raiding and selling the loot.

>>716023978
>Compare that to Phase 1. The only outlandish thing I remember from Phase 1 was Hunters and their pet scaling being too strong for awhile. Otherwise it felt pretty close to vanilla.
Did you forget how mages could pull an entire dungeon and never lose hp

I liked it but I never did any raiding in classic before. Scarlet Enclave was pretty neat even though it was obviously overtuned to keep people from clearing it right away and quitting. Proud to say my group cleared it 20man.

>>716024096
>>716024169
>>716024382
You're confusing P1 with P2, or referencing things that were fixed quickly.

>>716024595
If by "quickly" you mean "in p2", as in "after the entirety of p1 had fully elapsed", then sure.

>>716014923 (OP)
nothing
it was always meant as a seasonal test bed for ideas
and it did just that
it ran its course and now its time to move on

>>716014923 (OP)
I don't even know what this is. WOW trannys need to be put into a mental hospital and monitored 24/7 to find out what went wrong with their brains to still play such dogshit.

>>716024821
agree
t. wow player

>>716024718
why did they feel the need to test such obviously fucking garbage ideas that anyone with half a brain would be able to tell you was a bad idea, though

P1 was ludo and I want to go back. Vanilla peaked at lvl 1-25 btw

>>716021364
Bugmen hate modern californian fagshit, their votes would still be an upgrade over leaving it up to Blizzard who would add more gay centaurs and trans dragons if left to their own devices

>>716014923 (OP)
Phase 1 was fun as fuck. How did they fumble it so bad?

more like Seasons of Dysentery

>new rune system seems cool
>paladins running around with crusader strike and priests with penance at level 1
>play warrior
>get fucking victory rush
>only 10% hp
Because it was still classic warrior gameplay, now with harder mobs, you ended up having to eat food anyways and by the time you got your hp back the timer for the skill was over. What a slap in the face.

>>716014923 (OP)
They buffed rets way too fucking much. Other than that it was OK.

>>716025297
Because that's where all the fun vanilla content is and everyones in the same zones. Once you get to level 30 the good content drops off. Instead of adding more content to these zones they just made shitty pvp events and shitty raids and shitty incursions

WHO THE FUCK WANTS TO RAID GNOMER

>>716019296
Pandaria beckons, anon, join us.

>>716025563
Pandaria never went away though, I can solo all the raids on my demon hunter

>>716014923 (OP)
>We want Classic WoW!
>OK here you go
>Great!
>Ok now we're re-adding all the shit you said you hated
>No wtf

Thats what happened
They just should've fucking left it at BC or WOTLK or Cata or whatever expansion you guys cant decide killed the game and fucking leave it alone.

Phase 1 was fun for almost a month, but then it became apparent that the WoW community has somehow gotten even worse than it was when I quit back in Wrath.

>>716025627
More like
>Community: "Okay now after classic vanilla - tbc - wotlk, it would be awesome if we get classic+ that we has asked about forever, as in vanilla with some QoL changes, new lore accurate raids, etc"
>Blizzard: "Okay, retail-lite with some weird ass runes you put in your gear that literally no one asked for it is!"

wew

>>716014923 (OP)
They had too few people to test stuff before making changes and then when something was deemed overpowered they were far too heavy handed with dealing with that class/spec. So it became a game of players rerolling constantly, because after a class was nerfed they were pretty much dead in the water unplayable. Also, content didn't drop quick enough, cause the SoD team was also doing Cata classic at the same time.

>>716025648
yeah. it astonished me how many people couldn't beat Kelris

>>716025627
TBC always ruins things. I try to tell people that flying mounts do NOT belong in WoW and they don't believe me until it happens. The main lesson of history is that no one ever learns from it I guess...

When they started dishing out the nerfs is when the fun started drying up. For some reason shamans and druids never seemed to get nerfed.

>>716026125
can't nerf healers. its hard enough to get people to play them

>>716026125
Aggrend played them, also paladins

And in 8 phases Warriors never got a fun ability

>>716026209
I forgot about how awful it was to kill healers in pvp. They quickly became like fucking dungeon bosses. I just wanted to play a hunter and make a little money and kill people with my pet that I had to constantly change because some fat fuck kept nerfing them.

>>716015567
>>716014923 (OP)
Incursions we’re the mostly poorly designed shit I’ve ever seen in an MMO and everyone hated doing them and everyone felt like they had to
Also they required* the installation of a shitty addon
Death to neo-Blizz

My friends tell me the final phase was fun but I wouldn’t know, I’m not gonna grind incursions and I’m certainly not doing Firelands dailies

>>716023497
>since the majority of people aren't raidloggers or minmaxers, meaning they would tend to vote towards content that isn't just endgame instances or tryhard shit.
I agree the majority aren't tryhards but they don't know that which is the problem. I think the silent majority would vote in favor of catch up mechanics and more generic instanced content because they truly believe wow doesnt start till endgame, even though most dont even make it there.

>>716014923 (OP)
normalfags, they ruin everything including this site and the internet as a whole

>>716014923 (OP)
>discovery gimmick was made redundant when everything was just immediately datamined and posted online anyway
>new abilities were just copypasted from retail so classes just end up playing like shitty retail classes
>"new" dungeons and raids were all just reused shit you've already seen anyway. they hyped up this big scarlet monastery raid and then its just tyrs hand and a bit of the death knight starting area with items that are all just recolors from tbc
they promised all this new shit and then none of it was actually new

>>716025297
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/712888112/#712894720
kek

>>716027819
honestly the real problem is that Blizz is still in control of what gets voted on, and I could 100% see them mostly adding voting for instanced content

>>716014923 (OP)
It was made by wotlk team for the people who grew up on wotlk and have no idea why vanilla was designed the way it was.
For example when retards(same wotlk fags who posted fell reaver on their twitter when bc classic released) screaned about "needing other people to get rune, it's just like oldschool wow", no one corrected them, and so game died.

>>716014923 (OP)
retail-

>replace vanilla abilities with retail ones
HURRRRRR

>>716032332
>replace
I'm not sure you know what this word means.
Also, since when retail has tank specs for shamans, warlocks and rogues?

>>716032664
>I'm not sure you know what this word means.
I'm not sure you've played SoD

>>716033346
Replace means ability was REPLACED with something else.
What vanilla skills were removed and replaced in SoD?

>>716018240
No one knows or can agree. It's essentially to keep developing the original game again but not to TBC and go down that road. Nobody can agree what should and shouldn't be done, hence why Blizzard are experimenting with the Anniversary realms and SoD, and sending out questionnaires lmao.

>>716015226
kek

>>716028143
most players have shit opinions and a piss poor understanding of the game. i wouldnt trust current WoW players to vote their way into a better game.

>>716033582
>What vanilla skills were replaced in SoD?
Fireball, Frostbolt, Arcane shot, sinister strike...

>>716033592
>sending out questionnaires lmao.
One of the questions was whether or not Alliance should have shamans and Horde should have paladins...

I don't think there's any hope classic+ will be good

>>716034028
It's a valid question, I just hope people were smart enough to say no.

>>716034105
The people who got the questionnaire were undoubtedly retail whales and streamers. It's over.

>>716034028
people like you are unironically the reason why classic turned into shit so fast. Actually you are the reason why it was shit to begin with, because I remember your posts about how blizzard should start with 1.12 patch talents because all private servers did it and "they were just like true vanilla"
You don't care about game, you only care about posting on forums/twitter about how "awesome this thing I heard about is" and your fake memories about game you never played.
Fucking wotlk kids

>>716014923 (OP)
Nothing. It was good. Not perfect, but good.

so what's WoW like nowadays? I quit after getting black proto drake and shadowmourne

>>716035605
>Retail
Dogshit
>Classic
MoP so its dogshit
>Anniversary
Its vanilla but significantly worse due to the player base
>Hardcore Anniversary
Its above but much better.

stuck everyone in sunken temple for too long
just started to copy and paste retail skills
allowed shamans to be a beyond broken class

>>716014923 (OP)
Instead of being Classic+ it was retpilet-

>making the gear in the new content way better then gear you would get in 25 levels from base game
>buffing the already good classes through runes because the bad classes were getting buffs through runes started this insane power creep that escalated things to almost retail levels and completely stopped the the actual balancing era we needed to happen from happening
>incursions destroyed classics often praised leveling and its unfairness caused SoD to have this discoverers delight buff to be permanently. The actual content of them wasn't bad though and if could probably come back as a max level rep grind
There was a lot of giving up on the devs part when it came to sod. It could have been classic plus but there were to many instances of them just saying fuck it

>>716034485
So let me get this straight, you think alliance shamans are a good idea yet you also think im the boogieman who wants to change vanilla to something it wasn't... are you retarded?

>>716014923 (OP)
Not taking the opportunity to just rebuild the game from the ground up in a new engine

well it you see they "had" good ideas on p1 and p2 but then they said "hey we should make this the most boring shit ever made" so then they added incursions.

>>716037305
See, you clearly don't understand why vanilla was the way it was.
You only care about appearences and opportunity to post on twitter epic shit like "look at the queue to the epic hogger, it's just liek old wow"!!!
If you read book about how vanilla was made and design decisions, you'll see why classes were standardized isntead of each race having their own, like everquest. And learn that reason why shamans weren't in alliance was only because they couldn't came with a way to give paladins to horde, it's literally the only reason.
But for you, it was epic and super deep, it was different(despite wow being first mmo where warriors of all races were same) compared to your first mmo experience(wotlk), it had some meaning in your small and limited mind.
So, while blizzard only panders to the retards who only care about "appearences" instead of core game, WoW can never be good

>>716014923 (OP)
The only thing they discovered were their transfaggot fetishes and that the game sucks tranny ass.

We need a new WoW. And by that i mean a new massive mmorpg thats fun and not corrupted