Which of these two has done irreparable damage to the industry and action games in general? Why can't we just have an action game that doesn't rely on PRESS X TO WIN mechanics?

>>716084148 (OP)
You're free to play those games without dodging or parrying. Would make for an interesting youtube video, if you could pull it off.

>trying to make "goyslop" happen again but in a video game context

>>716085018
>trying
Where have you been the last 3 years on /v?

>>716084148 (OP)
So true the character should be able to parry, dodge, block or attack

>>716085150
fuck I meant to type shouldn’t

the average person like >>716084904 can't even conceptualise the idea of a game being built around its mechanics and therefore cannot understand that "lol just don't use it" doesn't solve anything.

>>716085448
Why not just play something else, then? Let people enjoy things.

>game has done damage to an industry because the hacks behind the industry can only copy
OP is a fag. Thread downvoted.

>>716085512
We're discussing why games rely on these mechanics so much and why nobody is making games without them. You're the one butting into the conversation and arguing like an autist.

>>716085512
the whole point of the thread is that these mechanics have become so prevalent in modern action games, that games that do not rely on them are barely made anymore. how are you too retarded to grasp this?

>>716084148 (OP)
I honestly don't even know what the solution is. it's just so bad I have to assume it's intentional. action games all feel very samish. either roll slop or some kind of parry slop and maybe some kind of mini rhythm game in the form or parry/roll.

Mention a single action game that doesn't have a way to negate incoming damage

Genuinely, how do you make an action game without parry/roll mechanics? The only action games I can think of are 2D beat em ups.

>>716085971
designing animations and hitboxes to function in a manual way (without excessive tracking/forcing a collision of hitboxes) just takes too much effort, so why do it when the average joe eats up garbage and can't even tell the difference

>>716084148 (OP)
whichever one has the best collision detection without resorting to forced animation scripting. when a single-A shovelware game like Colosseum: Road to Freedom has better collision/hit detection than your (((critically acclaimed)))
>GOTY
it's fucking AIDS all the way down.

>>716085971
I really thought it was a /v meme until fucking Clair Obscur put it into their TURN BASED game and got praised for it. Something about parrying and rolling makes normies go crazy but to me it just tells me I'm getting a cheap experience.

>>716084148 (OP)
Sekiro's parry system works because of posture. It's a very elegant system that rewards a balance of offense and defense. You're incentivized to attack so you can increase/maintain the posture meter and lower their HP (which slows meter loss), but also incentivized to defend so you increase the enemy's meter and don't fucking die. It's also consistent for both the player and the enemy so it feels fair. They can wreck your shit quickly but so can you.
The lethality of the posture system is what really makes it work - compare and contrast it with Armored Core 6 (which was directed by Sekiro's lead designer), where breaking an enemy's posture just made you do more damage. It feels way less satisfying, it turns into DPS optimization instead of a decisive blow.

>>716085018
"goyslop" was a low effort forced meme that wasn't even remotely the first instance of "slop"

>>716086112
I don't think the mechanics are the problem, but how they're implemented identically across every game. Dodging is fine, but the whole concept of i-frames is retarded. If you roll into an attack, the hitbox should still be there. Roll AWAY and PREEMPTIVELY and it doesn't look stupid.

Parrying is also fine, but again, games make it look retarded. Why am I able to parry a zweihander with a flimsy rapier? They should emphasize weight and power behind how and what you parry.

Of course, expecting any of that from a modern dev team is retarded in and of itself.

>>716086056
Why do you need an "avoid damage" button to do this?

>>716086485
the way to design anything nowadays is to fool people into thinking they're having a meaningful experience when they're actually just being fed garbage. but does it really matter whether something is actually meaningful or just creates the illusion of it? at the end of the day, people like us who are very critical are the only ones who "suffer" while everyone else believes things are better than ever

>>716086652
goyslop isn't a forced meme.
goyslop is goyslop.
you are a philosemite.

>>716084148 (OP)

Sekiro by far. As perfect as the game is, it's Defend and Parry system has fucking butchered the way we defend now in third person titles.

Even Lies of P is a slave to it's perfect guard sloppery.

>>716084148 (OP)
lmao its really funny seeing people ignoring TotK combat despite the fact that it's the best template possible for combat and fucking mogs everything. Has some of the best hitboxes ever and actually has different variety in combat.

>>716087251
>MASH MASH MASH MASH
>*scroll menu for 10 seconds*
>MASH MASH MASH PARRY MASH
yeah fantastic gameplay bro

>>716086652
post your sloppa if you're so in the know then

>>716087320
>build a construct to fight your enemies
>fuse a bomb to a stick and throw it at a group of enemies
>freeze enemies and use a korok leaf to push them off a cliff
>summon walls to divide and trap enemies
>leave a metal weapon on the ground during thunderstorms to make enemies electrocute themselves
You have low IQ

>>716087320
see I said "template" faggot. The Zelda has something fantastic here and I think just needs more time to think through and refine it.

>>716087518
those are gimmicks not combat retard. and why would I do any of that shit when its more efficient to equip a strong weapon and just rush them down with basic attack mashing?

>>716087671
man crazy seeing you fuckers really hate actual innovation huh?

>>716087671
"b b b b but it's just a gimmick!!!!" says the snoy. How does it feel to play games that never moved on from the PS3 gameplay wise?

>>716087671
>why would I do any of that shit when its more efficient to equip a strong weapon and just rush them down
Because it's fun slow walking up to a group of Bokoblins with lazer turrets rolling up behind you.

>>716084148 (OP)
feels good to like both these types of game, feels even better to hate training dummy piano recital games.

>>716088017
Fun once, maybe. Then you never do it again because wasting time is not fun. This is how everyone ends up playing yet they act like the gmod gimmick has opened some third eye of creativity in themselves.

>thread about parrying and rolling games
>look inside
>/v seething about BotW again
Stay forever mind broken.

>>716086828
Would you mind actually saying something meaninful instead of chaining buzzwords?