how do you fix turn based game
no really, how?

why does it need to be fixed tho, it's perfectly fine

>don cheadle in your party
you didnt beat the game

>>716185580
that's the boss' name dummy

>>716185442 (OP)
Excel spreadsheet style combat was already solved in FF12, and in games like EVE Online
Turn based game is different issue

I hate how cracked out ADHD zoomers are. Just calm the fuck down "bruh" and think about things for a second.

>>716185442 (OP)
>

>>716185442 (OP)
Step 1: Don't be brown
You've already failed at the first step.

>>716185442 (OP)
FOUR NIGGAS IN A COLUMN

>Riffs guitar

>>716185442 (OP)
They just need to be more difficult, because most JRPG series you can coast by the entire game not using buffs or even exploiting elemental weaknesses

>>716185442 (OP)
Can't fix what isn't broken. Just accept it's not gameplay you're into. I don't like sports games but I don't go into FC 2026 and whine that it's not as fun as FFX's blitzball. I just go play FFX's blitzball.

There is no salvation.

>>716186010

>>716185812
japs aren't white retard

>>716186074

>>716185652
>He doesnt know

>>716185442 (OP)
>using animal sidekick
>not sassy robot

you fucked up

More games with status effects that work

>>716186104
Where did I say white, darkie?
I simply said "don't be brown." Japs are yellow. Yellow is not brown.

>>716186010
>>716186074
there's nothing wrong with these

>>716185442 (OP)
Turn based games don't need fixing. Retarded JRPG fans need to be fixed so their troglodyte lineages end with them

>>716185442 (OP)
>Zoomers talk shit about turn based RPGs
>Even though they play all those gacha games that are turn based RPGs
kek, the irony

>>716186364
They appear to be boring as shit. Therefore, there is, in fact, something wrong with them.

>>716186517
These look like some low budget indie games made on RPG Makers, and as a fan of JRPGs, I dont play RPG Maker slop, they're all shit and boring as fuck

>>716185442 (OP)
play the ones that aren't labeled "JRPG"
JRPG is a synonym for storyfag or children's game with braindead combat. play a western turn based game instead; or a japanese one labeled SRPG, DRPG, or tactics

There's nothing to fix no matter how many times you make this dogshit thread, people keep playing garbage, they demand garbage and ignore better games despite being what they supposedly ask for, this will never ever change, the games you want have been there since forever ago

>>716186410
It doesn't matter what genre the game is when you have in on Auto-Play.

>>716185442 (OP)
Spreadsheets can be quite engaging, so I'm not sure what's there to fix.

by making it based on something that is turn-based in real life. why is there no baseball or football-themed JRPG? Throwing pitches and calling plays like you would an attack, limit breaks that give you special moves...

There's nothing to fix, it's perfect.
The only complaint I see against it is
>japs can't do it
lole

>>716185442 (OP)
Resource management.
It's actually how you solve multiple genres.

>>716186258
>Stuns the boss every turn
Very strategic

>>716185442 (OP)
In the end every game can be turned into spreadsheets tbqhwy

>>716186587
One is BlackSouls2 wich at that point in the game is argueably more an strategy game than an rpg with some enemy encounters shreding you even on the lowest dificulty with maxed out stats if you just wing it

>>716185442 (OP)
Why do jrpgs have the same gameplay as grand strategy

>>716185442 (OP)
Turn based games don't need to be fixed. If anything, zoomers should be forced into re-education centers with no access to phones, the internet, or ai. That would solve this discourse quickly.

>>716186675
That's even more brain dead and not something to be proud of lmao

>>716186908
There's other status effects besides stun

>>716186908
yes? you should be rewarded for having the right moves and party members. 'strategy' includes having the right tool for the job.

>>716187090
Never claimed that gacha was anything else. You don't win those games by playing well. You win by getting good draws and boosting their stats until they can't lose. People complain that there's no gameplay in the horse girl gacha, but really it's just gacha in its purest form.

>>716187203
You're not supposed to realize that building your party is gameplay anon, don't you know? Turn based is just mashing attack until your numbers are big enough to mash attack on the next enemy. Actually paying attention is for those lame boss fights that just kill you if you don't read their specific gimmick. (So unfair!)

>>716187132
true enough, there's also paralisis, petrification, confusion and root

>>716185442 (OP)
Chess is perfectly fine as it is

>>716187408
At this point you retards are complaining that people enjoy playing games and have fun

>>716187349
It really depends on the gacha, but of course most of /v/ is still stuck seething about how they're all identical and none of them have gameplay.

>>716187203
SMT1 is the best JRPG ever made according to you

>>716185442 (OP)
It's already perfected

>>716187510
How much sarcasm do I need to put into the post for you to understand?

>>716187510
He's on your side dummy

Is this another person that watched Dunkey when he was young and worshiped his opinions as their own? Turn-based is just another form of interaction. It doesn't involve getting caught in frenetic real-time, moment to moment action and having to make quick decisions. People can just chill in between turns, make decisions at their own pace, prep and gear up between battles, and still watch numbers go up and find progression. For a lot of people there's fun in that relaxed pace. It's just a different flavor of gameplay. I wouldn't want every game to be fast paced action. I wouldn't arrogantly hate on people who love racing cars as their hobby just because I enjoy the slower pace of board games.

>>716187534
I haven't played many of them, but it doesn't help that the ones I've tried truly were identical. Exact same UI, same upgrade systems, same chibi pseudo-RPG "gameplay." Just a different batch of JPGs to purchase.

Reminder, most turn based combat systems have no real reason to be turn based. RTS games are living proof that controlling multiple characters in real time is possible, and simulation/management games prove that macro level gameplay can also work in real time. Games like chess and pool have valid reasons to be turn based, but most of games don't

>>716185442 (OP)
>how do you fix turn based game
3x big tit princess vs bigger tit queen

>>716188024
the fact that something can be done is not a valid reason to do it that way

>>716185442 (OP)
Add strategy

>>716188024
>Smug anime girl reaction image
>Poorly written mental diarrhea from a bored nobody who vastly overestimates his nonexistent intelligence
Hard to find a more iconic combo

>>716188024
The RTS genre is dead

>>716185817
NANI!

>>716187560

>>716188024
using turns for theoretically perfect micro is fun though

>>716188274
>You should be able to stun bosses every turn
>Yes
>...WAIT NOT LIKE THAT!

>>716185442 (OP)
that's not even close to the actual party composition of every JRPG
>anime hair protag
>his/his friend's kid sister, indispensable healer
>dorky 40yo virgin erudite mage
>whore
>final party member who's a normal looking knight or archer but does 15x the physical damage of the rest of the party and is also indispensable
name one that doesn't fit at least half of these

>>716188024
I like both and I am higher ranked than you in age of empires 2, I like having games where I can just chill

>>716185442 (OP)
There is nothing to be "fixed". It's just a mechanic and if it werks it just werks. Don't see anything wrong with DQVIII for example.

>>716188024
Yeah, but the thing is I don't enjoy playing RTS games. If you enjoy them that's fine. Go play Warcraft and have fun. I won't try to convince Blizzard that they need to turn the game into something that it isn't, like a MOBA or Tower Defense instead.

>>716186074
that looks cool, what game is this ?

>>716188436

>>716188024
RTS is a terrible example because the genre is liquid shit without a good UI offloading all of the busywork. No, Starcraft is not a good game.

>>716188475
FF9
DQ8

>>716185442 (OP)
>letting the animal sidekick die
skill issue, if it was so easy you wouldn't let this happen.

>>716187534
>seefing
would it hurt you third worlders to at least look up the words you spam in every thread before using them? i fucking promise you it doesn't mean "I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS GUY"

>>716188909
Your lack of self awareness is the most impressive thing about your post

some games aren't for everyone, zoom zoom. genres don't need fixing just because you dislike it

>>716188475
SMT

>>716188494
>I like having games where I can just chill
Gotcha. I just hope people understand that some games are really just casual games, and I don't see anything wrong with that
>>716188592
>Yeah, but the thing is I don't enjoy playing RTS games
I'm not saying every game should be RTS or anything. I'm saying that turn based games have no reason to exist other than to make the game more relaxed. Turn based gamers say their games are hardcore or that they filter normalfags, but in reality it's just a false promise

>>716189069
>seething
>/ˈsēT͟HiNG/
>adjective
>1. filled with or characterized by intense but unexpressed anger.
>"his seething resentment finally reached boiling point"
go ahead and tell me how anyone would be "seething" when they call your anime casinos shit, juan

>>716187132
Just admit you want to instawin win zero effort. Because unless you're talking about a game where aforementioned status effects are required in order to not instantly fucking die (you aren't because you are a massive pussy who hates challenge), then being able to freely incapacitate bosses is lame and gay.

>>716185442 (OP)
This but 4x and grand strategy

>>716189550
Give me games where they are then

>>716189620
Filtered by actual mechanical complexity I see.

>>716185652
>boss joins your party after you beat them
kino

>>716189773
they're spreadsheet simulators, I thought that was the point of the image

>>716189550
Etrian Odyssey already has a perfectly fine system where status effects are a big gamble with a huge payoff against bosses

cut the bloat
maybe average falcom fan thinks hours/dollar is the only signifier of quality, but unless you are a poor console-locked child who gets maybe one game a year, there are just better things to do gaming-wise and even those are probably grinding ftp garbage nowadays
no fetch quests, no templated dungeons, no swaths of enemies dumped before chests
then you can focus on designing encounters and progression, or make branching dialogue that properly involves your waifu in the plot, or just spend more time refining shit that already works
then suddenly people stop bitching about status effects and autoattacks and romance options, once they aren't based on a framework which only saps your time

>>716190028
jrpgs were already starting to solve the random encounter problem since the late 90s, with only pokemon and final fantasy really staying behind. (among other square rpgs at the time, but others didn't, like the saga series)
>no fetch quests, no templated dungeons
>then you can focus on designing encounters and progression, or make branching dialogue that properly involves your waifu in the plot, or just spend more time refining shit that already works
"don't bog down the pacing and keep the game focused" aren't exactly criticisms exclusive to jrpgs, nor are its fans blind to them if you ignore the glue huffing shitters of the fanbase that are unfortunately more plentiful than i'm letting on, like trails fans

>>716188606
https://vrpghonyakubu.neocities.org/enchantfarm/enchantfarm-main

>>716190351
"random" part of random encounters ain't a problem just look at owlcat lmao, i meant to say that i wanted bespoke battles for ALL battles
which is not a thing you can do at large enough scale, obviously
there is also the approach of making generic encounters literally nothing but obstacles, but that means you can't have a conventional XP system (and have to show all enemies on the overworld), which is a tall order for anything big and established

>aren't exactly criticisms exclusive to jrpgs
the thing is, rpg, jap or not, is one of the few genres where being fuckhuge big is often a selling point
they try to sell it as "scope" but all it really is is plain old "bloat"

>>716185442 (OP)
>>716186010
>>716186074
> nigger vernacular
> cant grasp the concept of jrpgs
jrpgs are the meatballs of vidya

>>716190028
Why is he so WIIIIIIIIDE? He's basically Kingpin.

>>716185442 (OP)
Nothing to be fixed, just make sure the game has actual difficulty that forces you to interact with its mechanics (equipment, party building, status/buff/debuff skills, consumable items, resource conservation), and doesn't spam you with enough combat to become exhausting.

>>716186630
some of the best turn based games are western

most notably KOTOR series and Baldur's gate

>>716191576
neither is turn based and kotor combat is godawful

>>716189382
>Turn based gamers say their games are hardcore or that they filter normalfags
Yeah, and they're usually saying that in response to some normalfag playing a game and then losing. That's just a common meme response. You could start a thread about Tic-Tac-Toe being impossible to win and get the same reaction.

>>716191576
>lists rtwp games
shit nigger what are you doing

why does turn based make retards seethe so much?

>>716191659
Kotor combat is dnd. If you hate that then you also hate Baldur's Gate

Been seeing a LOT of brownoid/blackoid low IQ zoomer whining about turn based games since E33 locked in GOTY....quite unusual.

>>716189534
I'm not even the guy you were replying to, mindbroken retard, the fact that you immediately resort to calling anyone you dislike a "third worlder" already points out how utterly delusional and lacking in self awareness you are

>>716185442 (OP)
Give people imagination

>>716192738
is all dnd the same to you? is infinity the same as aurora?

Undertale solved it almost a decade ago by making you dodge enemy attacks in real-time.

>>716185442 (OP)
how do we prevent even more children being groomed into adopting low-IQ african vernacular? my vote is to make allowing children on the internet a federal offense that punishes the parents or teachers involved.

>>716188736
are you joking?
>Zidane = anime hair protag
>kid sister healer = Eiko
>dorky virgin mage = Vivi
>fuckmeat = Garnet
>late game giga DPS = Amarant

old-school turned based is just massive nostalgia goggles and nothing more

>>716193056
DnD is a d20 based system, kotor is a d20 system as well.

DnD has 6 primary attributes, str/dex/con/wis/int/char, kotor does as well

Both share most of the same feats.

Both share the same combat systems. Armor Class(AC), d20 attack roll + str or dex stat, confirm attack vs AC, roll for damage.

I could go on

c'mon, be honest and tell me you wouldn't play the fuck out of this: https://files.catbox.moe/s32ilh.webm

>>716185803
/thread

>>716193507
kino

>>716185442 (OP)
spreadsheet games have been fixed already

>>716193403
anonymous, you are acting like it's a secret that kotor runs on d20
have you considered that there are other factors that distinguish one dnd-adjacent game from another?

>>716185442 (OP)
More complexity would help but the main issue with JRPGs is just the grind. Completely remove any sort of grinding and get rid of pointless encounters and voila.

>>716193617
>WRPG

>>716193617
TAA was a mistake

If you don't like it, just go play a brainlet game like fortnite. Simple like that.
There is a reason Pokemon is one of the biggest franchises of the world, and you fuckers keep ruining it asking for action slop and open world zoomer trash.

>>716193710
Define grinding because JRPGs haven't required you to go out of your way for experience since the 1980s

>>716193720
not to be pedantic, but isn't that technically what it is? It's certainly not a jarpig

>>716185442 (OP)
you make it real time
>but I need time to decide what to do next
you're just gonna spam attack anyway

i prefer these kind of spreadsheet games desu

>>716193710
grinding has been removed from most modern jrpgs, you have to be actively looking for games that advertise grinding as a feature these days

>>716193804
me "playing" etrian oddysey
>tape a button down
>hold a direction
>???
>dungeon cleared

>>716193507
>spamming bufu
most strategic smt4 battle
also you are not supposed to just say "the game" outright, the point is to make another think of it without "don't think about zebras" tactic

>>716185442 (OP)
West won, east lost

>>716185442 (OP)
I had an idea once, then I heard that I was basically making your only move is hustle with a new coat of paint

>>716193701
Different setting, same systems with minor adjustments in regards to the setting and medium.

DnD is still DnD no matter how you paint it

Figuring demifiend out in vengeance was not hp/500 simple

>>716193779
The availability of any sort of repetitive power-ups. Why bother with thinking of a boss fight strategy when you can just mindlessly slay lvl 1 goblins. "Haven't required" means nothing, you can do no exp runs of some games but it's not an enjoyable experience for most.

>>716185442 (OP)
>THIS GAMEPLAY FIRE
what's up with 90% of memes having terrible grammar these days?

>>716189550
Are you retarded or have you just not played more than like 3 games in your life? You can design stun statuses in a way that doesn't allow for infinite chain stunning.

>>716193759
You only look at AA JRPG and never look at Japanese indie/hentai scene to reach this conclusion
Anyway grinding is not a problem if you can have a way to avoid it(make enemies visible on map and you can actively avoid them) and make stackable encounters with rewards possible (fantasian neo dimension)
Also most of the turn based game have the wrong mindset where they think the real gameplay is when you combat the monsters, whereas all good jrpg are about character/team building. Good JRPG are closer to a game like PoE1 desu

>>716194079
So you're saying that because other people choose to play on gay baby mode and grind past all challenge you have to as well? There have several attempts to limit this and it makes RPG fags seethe every single time unless its so subtle they don't notice like Baldur's Gate

>>716185442 (OP)
>jrpg gameplay
I hate jrpg's but at least the combat in those games is not literal excel spreadsheet shit like owlcat games.

>>716188024
FFXII Revenant Wings was a GOOD game and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't. We need more RTS JRPGs

>>716193792
JRPG as a genre refers to gameplay, not country of origin. boring fucking turnbased gameplay where all you do is pick the attack and sometimes play a timing minigame is jrpg shit.

>>716194079
A player can choose to be over leveled for (insert part of the game) as opposed to the recommended level. It's just another way to give choice to the person playing.

>>716193617
>former ubishit exec who got his job because he was a nepo baby, quits after working their for a while and rehires all the same people from the studio he worked with to make a new game, using his own massive reserves of money and additional outside funding to make it happen
>""""""""indie""""""""
it's ubislop in all but name, and just as boring gameplay wise.

>>716185442 (OP)
>Duct tape together baby rattles, sparklers, rockets, blow-up dolls, and bungee in several places to keep it in place, yet flail around
>Shoot in 4k
Action rpg fans be like
>Yooooooo, this is heckin dynamic and immersive as fuuuuuck

>>716185442 (OP)
Fps gameplay feels way more like office work than JRPGs.

>>716194110
Zoomers imitating ebonics.

>>716194464
the whole angle of "independency" is indeed completely fake and gay, and not just with E33
but i say that the eclectic richfag funding a thing he actually likes as if commissioning a furry artfag is a much better model to publicly traded mega-developer-publisher shuffling faceless executives and countless creators around
literally nothing wrong with using your connections

>>716194464
>and just as boring gameplay wise.
better than this shovelware factory.

>>716194363
>Might and Magic is a JRPG
Clown world

>>716194901
>literally nothing wrong with using your connections
I agree. Not indie, still ubigay in spirit, but based as an initiative. At least he created an entire new IP instead of shitting an existing one with soccer players and niche djs like a certain sansnigger.

FF7 is still pretty fun. Only real complaint is having to sit through animations or random enemy behaviors.
Pokemon turn based is boring because you can simply hard counter everything.
Honestly I think Golden Sun hit a perfect middle. I also disagree with morphing turn based into RTS.

>>716194079
Only a meaningful issue if it's possible to overlevel without intending to (ex: if doing all sidequests or just exploring a bunch overlevels you).

>>716193710
I'd rather grind for the satisfaction of leveling up, wether that be equipment, abilities, or just in general
than have to sit through hours and hours of unskippable narrative bloat

>>716195045
come to think of it, is anybody but tribalist retards on the internet even pushing E33 as "indie"?
i am pretty sure there was a little non-happenning where the lead guy said they had a hundred people working for like 7 years, so you really can't call their game independent
not that you should use "indie" amelioratively at all, not when steam and devolver and EU grants are a huge part of the ecosystem

>>716194949
I've never played persona but I've known about them shooting themselves in the head since I saw the x-play review like 20 years ago

Why do they do it?

>>716185652
does he know?

>>716194363
You cant just say this like some sort of authority as if there hasn't been a multi-decade long nerd war over it

>>716186104
honorary white according to basedolf

>>716194464
the budget is a tiny fraction of AAA games, the guy was asking for voice talent on reddit and pulled randoms off of soundcloud for the soundtrack, and then they went ahead and made the best game of the year that the whole vidya community has been raving about on the same tier as baldur's gate 3 and black myth. you can say this is proof it's not the devs fucking games it's the company, the guys left Ubisoft and instantly made a better game than Ubisoft has ever produced

>>716195401
>not that you should use "indie" amelioratively at all
Agree, this term has lost meaning, it just means "not made by AAA companies" nowadays, and AAA is losing meaning too. Indie today can anything from E33 to undertale, and all the asset flip horror games inbetween. Game dev bloat killed big studios making lither games.

>party splits up
>I have to play with the Retard Squad
>get them all geared up for combat
>JK, the other guys are the ones fighting!
For fuck's sake, just let me pick my own goon squad!

Remove random encounters and kill anyone who likes them.

>>716195404
Something about repressing the ego to the point that the id manifests itself into a physical form. They only do it in Persona 3, not actually a standard thing in the series.

>another actiontroon cope thread

>>716192863
>more buzzword spewing garbage
>acts like third worlders aren't defined by their poor english comprehension
>totally not him btw!!!
i know what you are

>>716185442 (OP)
I don't speak zoomer

>>716185442 (OP)
The main issue with turn based games has always been that there are no meaningful decisions being made during combat. Without some sort of story or involvement in any of your choices, you’re just moving through windows and that’s boring. The final fantasy games were able to pull that shit off because they were ahead of the curve in terms of graphics but now their mainline games are getting passed over because instead of trying to expand on their customer base and their long-tested gameplay systems, they instead wanted to pivot entirely into the action-rpg genre and have been falling face-first for almost half of its lifespan. If you count ff13 as the start of their “action-rpg” age, then they have been working on this for 15 years and have only made 3 mainline Final Fantasy games to mediocre sales and reception.

Meanwhile, a used to be niche series like Shin Megami Tensej has jettisoned itself into mainstream appeal with Persona while still keeping it’s turn-based routes.

>Turn-based combat
>Metroidvania
>VN
Yup. It's Jap gaming time.

>>716196961
I love to see it

>>716194464
it’s so obvious its assblasted Fatlus and nuFFfags saying this

>>716185442 (OP)
there's nothing wrong with turn based games. Most jrpgs are just trash and fail stack up to even babby's first strategy game

>>716185442 (OP)
>OP image
context for the numbers matter. AND the method (mechanics and interactions) of the numbers and button presses matter. that is all to say: the story context of the relevance of the characters' numbers and the level of QUALITY of the interactions the button press and mechanics in the games have are what matters.

>>716196961
should have posted ff15 tbdesu
spamming basic attack is in the best traditions of turn based rpgs

i'd rather read a book than play some boring ass turn based "game"

i'd rather drop acid and watch windows xp music visualizations than play some spaz ass actiony movie "game"

>>716193909
CRPG wins again

>>716185442 (OP)
By laughing at zoomers who don't know how to use excel

>>716193909
Another motherfucker (((journalist))) filtered by Matador, keep sucking cocks in hell, imbecile! and thanks for the menorah

>>716193909
The beginning of this article highlights the true fundamental difference between RPGs made in the west (Not WRPGs this is a misnomer) and JRPGs. The former is influenced by DnD while the latter is influenced by games

>>716199767
Nah, he's a fucking pompous, racist and smartass moron, and if you believe in his anti-JRPG rant bullshit, you are a fucking moron as well

>>716199504
>journalist
>nocturne for some reason???
it's a review from the late isonmni.ac, a place whose level of pretense and autism rivaled even /lit/ and /vee-gee/

>>716201179
>trying to use racist pejoratively
the history lesson is completely right btw, america derived rpgs from tabletops and made them for computers, japan derived rpgs from dungeon crawlers and made them for consoles

>>716185442 (OP)
DON CHEADLE HAD IT COMING

>>716185531
FPBP-SAMA...!!

>>716201453
Pretentious, ignorant, biased and ridiculous straight from the ass shitty anti-JRPG rant, and obviously he was filtered by Matador and Don Cheadle. Btw, that last argument is bullshit too, read A Guide to Japanese Role-Playing Games to find out the truth

>>716185442 (OP)
i'm a huge turn-based fan but definitely agree that sometimes the games can be a slog.

why would you use "laser pointer" when you could use "death ray"?

the games that i've had the most fun with the turn-based combat are probably FFXIII and turn based SRPG/CRPG games like FFTA or Divinity Original Sin. They're still turn based but there's a bit more depth because of movement and terrain.

FFXIII though was a boatload of fun combat-wise and i actually think it should be heavily considered for the future of turn based.

resource management in turn-based is kind of a slog at times and i just like how in XIII your only job was to survive and not get cockslapped and you would get healed to full afterward

>>716186813
resource management is dull desu. they always get broken or just feel like shit to play cause you're spamming fire1 and attack to save MP.

>>716197006
how is ffxiii an arpg? it's atb with a lot more atb

Just add movement.
Add spaces that characters move in and add resources for moving and taking other actions.
Then of course overhall your abilities: make AoEs take the space into account, add cover/LoS mechanics, make hybrid abilities that move/attack/deal damage/deny areas at the same time.

I too don't understand why JRPGaylords are so afraid of positioning in a 2D or 3D space mattering in their games.

>>716202137
>AAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII SAVE ME SAKAGUCHI-SAMA
are you an actual child to be upset at a longass autistic rant? wait 'til you find out retarded arguments about "what does rpg TRULY mean?" are a weekly feature on here as well
>read a book
one tall fucking order, state your point more succinctly if you wan't to oppose "wizardry is the first jrpg" as nippon slander

>>716185531
>heavily number-reliant
>pretty cool specialization options that are useless because your party needs to be able to tackle enemies of any type, so they're only useful only on replay playthroughs
>most of the combat is spam your strongest move to win in the vast majority of cases
>you spend more time menuing than playing the game
it's an obsolete style

>>716195537
>voices and composter: reddit
>programmers: hired with nepo-baby investor money
I think the guy just wanted friends from reddit, doesn't seem like he did it because he didn't have money

>>716195085
>Pokemon turn based is boring because you can simply hard counter everything.
Honestly Pokemon is boring because the winning strategy is either
>A: overlevel one mon and it wrecks everything
>B: abuse the fact the player can switch to favorable match ups and has basically infinite items
>bonus C: post EXP share games have poor level balancing making the whole team into As unless they're shitmons
B is pretty much what you said, and while you can do an easy challenge run without going full nuzlocke most people are going to swap when kill and abuse potions midbattle even if they can't in the pvp which is how the game should be.

>>716202582
Play Berwick Saga.

>>716185442 (OP)
Doesn't need fixing maybe just some tuning. Shin megami tensei's press turn is perfect and just needs the right balancing. Bring back skills that use HP so its more dangerous. E33 got the other side where its more interactive but way easier. You need no more than these two systems.

>>716194079
Almost every single JRPG i've played in the past 15 to 20 years already solved this via diminishing returns. If a monster is lower than you there is barely any exp to be gained. It makes grinding nigh impossible unless you spend 50 hours or something. And if you want to argue that means it's still viable then you're just retarded.

>>716185442 (OP)
Ever played X4? You literally stare at a spreadsheet - for hundreds of hours. And it's a good thing!

>>716202783
That's more of a TRPG. What I'm getting at is more CRPG type gameplay (think Divinity original Sin, Underrail, age of decadence or even BG3) where you have a limited party (1-6 members) where every character has a big toolset. It's a smaller but more focused scale compared to FE and Berwick Saga where you command armies over vast distances and every individual soldier hasn't got many options other than attacking.

>>716202582
because the most iconic one (chrono trigger) was fucking awful in executing it lmao

>>716203370
FF tactics did it well.

>>716194604
Underrated post

>>716202582
They did. It filtered too many people.

>>716188475
Mother 3. Fear & Hunger if it counts.

>>716193792
The way I see it, is genres exist to classify games so you can find more games similar to ones you like. Country of origin isn't relevant to if you like a game, so it shouldn't determine the genre.
Traditionally, Japanese RPGs (not the genre but RPGs made in Japan) have been turn- and party-based, while Western RPGs (again, not the genre) have been action based and typically single-character. The JRPG and WRPG distinction is based on which traditional type of RPG the game is more like.
E33 is turn based and has a party, thus it's a JRPG. Something like Dark Souls is real time and you're alone, thus, WRPG.

>>716193909
>open this thread to say "jrpgs were fixed by the existence of tactics games"
>this post

yeah, tactics mog both jrpgs and western "rpgs". play la pucelle retarded negroes

>>716185442 (OP)
You don't. Turn based combat is better than hack and slash.

>>716206415
>hack and slash

I want more turn-based RPGs with good level design like SMTV. So many of them have such boring worlds to explore.

>>716194464
how mad can anyone be to write this

>>716194363
>JRPG as a genre refers to gameplay, not country of origin.
dipshit

>>716202783
chapter 10M and weapons breaking on green can go fuck themselves

>>716185442 (OP)
you don't appeal to people wanting to "fix" it, simple as
YOOO LET'S FIX POINT AND SHOOT, YOOO LET'S FIX JUMP AND RUN, YOOO LET'S FIX ROLLING DICE

>>716185442 (OP)
why is every JRPG like this
why are asians unable to innovate, and what specifically do they have against UI's that dont look like spreadsheet

>>716186104
brown trapped

>>716185442 (OP)
I don't mind turn based "4 niggas in a row" type gameplay, but they need to refine it. It needs to be snappy and have interesting combos. Basically the opposite of FFIX where the camera just spins around and does nothing for 5 seconds even though you've already chosen attacks, followed by long unnecessary animations.

As long as it isn't x-com type bullshit turnbased, that shit is so ass. Turnorder is whack, to hit% is just straight upp lies, spotted enemies get suprise rounds etc

>>716193792
if you make italian style pizza in america does it stop being italian style?

>>716194464
>be part of a studio
>leave
>take talented people with you
>make good game
why is this supposed to be bad? do you think ubislop refers to the people making it and not the stock open world gameplay with towers and enemy camps?

>>716186104
Neither are they brown, jeet.

>>716188475
epic battle fantasy series

>>716194363
weebs seething at this truthnvke.

>>716193650
download link?

>>716193142
Zidane ain't that. It's a normal medium-length haircut. Nothing like Cloud, nor is special color shit.
Eiko isn't anyone's sister. Literally. Also Garnet also exists so she isn't indispensable.
Vivi is a literal child so of course he's fucking virgin bro what the fuck. Also
>dorky 40yo virgin erudite mage
Was the original.
Garnet isn't a whore, quite far from it. Which was the original point above. Stop changing stuff.
I can give you Amarant but he's far from fucking normal. "knight" or "archer". Also Steiner fucking destroys everything as well so he isn't somehow unique with that. Yeah funny solo Ozma but that's because of his support abilities. Not his "15x more damage compared to everyone else" when everyone starts reaching damage cap towards the end of the game.

>>716185817
i miss that kino thread like a month ago discussing various amounts of niggas in varying formations
especially when people just started posting ridiculous amounts of niggas in a row

>>716185442 (OP)
Just make it fun

>>716211814
4 niggas in a box

>>716185812
/thread

>>716211270
https://exlcom.jimdofree.com/
seems dead now sadly

>>716207450
>SMTV.
Not an rpg

retardo

>>716185442 (OP)
I least I know how to use Excel. You faggots don't even know how to use an actual desktop computer.

>>716202725
>>pretty cool specialization options that are useless because your party needs to be able to tackle enemies of any type, so they're only useful only on replay playthroughs
Play more bold. Literally

japs could never

Etrian Odyssey has probably the best turn-based combat in all vidya. It also understood that people prefer making their own party over having characters made for them.

>>716219224
Probably knot.

>>716204102
if the game wasn't called Breath of Fire it would've been way better received

>>716205385
Interesting you consider Dark Souls an RPG. I always saw it as an action-adventure game

>>716210075
don't try to Ship of Theseus me, you can claim it is all you want but it wouldn't be truly authentic

>>716205385
>E33 is turn based and has a party, thus it's a JRPG. Something like Dark Souls is real time and you're alone, thus, WRPG.
This is some of the retardestest shit I've read. Today.

>>716202582
None of that matter if you don't actually build the game around that and it's not at all easy to do, exactly like how movement doesn't matter in Underrail and might as well be a set of evasive buffs on demand since every fight plays the exact same and "movement" boils down to not being in the enemy's range, alphastriking and then kiting to oblivion if you have low CON or facetanking if they survive your first round of alphastrike, hence bear traps being the single most gamebreaking item to this day before even the already busted grenades.
The vast majority of games with movement doesn't use it in any meaningful way, FFT has movement and again, it boils down to not letting the enemy get in your range, TO was SLIGHTLY more complex and it still ended up with the same exact issues, movement alone doesn't add depth, a simple focus on making your turn and resource economy actually matter is tremendously more efficient, limiting healing alone makes wonders.

>>716185442 (OP)
>how do you fix turn based
By clicking on uninstall.exe

>>716185442 (OP)
Mechanical complexity and visual flare.
Don't turn every encounter into "Melee attack until enemy dies", give the enemy something that actually forces the player to pay attention.
Encounter a ghost enemy?
You now have to either deal with doing heavily reduced damage, or use a combination of spells to lock them to a corporeal form so you can really lay into them, think hitting them with water-frost to freeze them into a living block of ice that you shatter to do massive damage.
You'd need to accompany this all with some decent animation and presentation, can't just be "press button, he turns blue, press button, he turns bright blue, press button, sprite shatters".
Not every enemy needs to be like that, or have in depth kill methods that complex obviously, imagine fighting a human fighter type enemy and hitting them with a disarm move to reduce their damage and prevent them from using skills, then using a "reduce defense" skill to strip their armor so you can hit them with a bleed.
THAT would be cool to play against.

>>716185442 (OP)
Yup, even as a kid; i couldn't get into pokemon because of the text based gameplay.

>>716185442 (OP)
Why are you showing a screen shot from eve online?

>>716194261
You're right, JRPG gameplay is Powerpoint slide simulator

>>716185442 (OP)
Turn-based JRPG is one of the laziest and most braindead genre in existence.

>>716213520
>pic unrelated

>>716220790
If your game has hand holding systems such as persistent upgradeable stats or equipment that gives an advantage. it's an RPG

>>716188024
Can't you do a lot more in a turn with one unit in a turn-based game, vs managing a whole bunch of the same unit in an RTS?
The gameplay switches entirely from 'what should be the best action to take in this turn' to 'where should I send this group of units'.

>>716185442 (OP)
Five niggas in a row. Four is too few for continuous gameplay and variance of playstyles. Six is too many and will result in redundancy of character roles.

No party swap or Baton Pass. The interest in turnbased games is surviving with improvised, sub-standard strategies until the correct character's turn to deal with the enemies. Implementing either of the two destroys this foundation of the genre.

Developers have to actually playtest their game and balance it throughout the experience to correspond to the power and strategies the player will factually have in practice. Failing that, at least making the enemies have unfair gimmicks and true advantages, which the player has no access to, can patch things up.

Restore resource management and make it notable.

Allow multitude of differing, non-redundant abilities during a battle rather than a handful to avoid repetition and then reward using those options. These options however shouldn't have wide reaching, snowballing, combo capability, even in the case, where the enemies share in the system, because the player will optimize them, which the enemies simply can't match, leaving them permanently behind and thus combat becomes a foregone conclusion, losing its luster.

>>716227849
>The gameplay switches entirely from 'what should be the best action to take in this turn' to 'where should I send this group of units'
I'm not sure about this, but RTS games and even DOTA have actual micro movements during combat like dodging missiles, casting spells to stun, debuff, or buff units, blocking fleeing enemies, or preventing your units from being attacked depending the how situation going. You can even give pre order commands too, but they can become useless because the situation can be so dynamic. I think that’s where the real challenge begins what seemed like the best move a moment ago might no longer be the right choice

>>716201179
Even if you disagree with the whole of the message, the first part in particular is completely correct

>>716227849
>Can't you do a lot more in a turn with one unit in a turn-based game
Nope, in turn-based, every turn is pretty straightforward. Spam the highest/weakness exploiting move, with the occasional heal, buff and debuff. That's it.

>>716230629
Nobody would play that, many games like that exist and people hate them.
People only want the illusion of depth and challenge, they don't want to actually think

>>716185442 (OP)
By ripping off M&L combat and making it more difficult and complex

>>716202764
>no how dare an rpg let you use items and overlevel to beat it easily like all rpgs do it should require lv1 challenge run-grade autism instead rrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee
you're the cancer that's killing rpgs
>>716204102
the main problem with dragon quarter is that difficulty is at its highest when starting out. since mistakes snowball, any time and moves wasted finding your bearings may doom your run later on. the SOL system is meant to address that, but people are not fond of replaying previous parts of a game (unless it's shit like cod's prestige system for some retarded reason)

>>716186630
Be careful of "tactics" JRPGs. Many of them over-rely on RPG mechanics like levels and equipment and don't play any differently from traditional turn based jarpigs in practice.

Play a good one

>>716185531
It's not fine. Turn based games difficulty is completely reliant on RNG bullshit. It's a stale boring formula that after a while it has you questioning why are you even wasting your time playing this.

>>716232746
Pokemon itself just sucks because it's balanced around pvp (every enemy is using the same characters as you outside like 3 exceptions in the series, Pokestar Studios a minigame, totems, and raids) but the player has too many exceptions that make it like you're playing against retarded children. There's no issue there shared with say FF or DQ which are also intentionally very easy children friendly rpgs because those aren't balanced around pvp

>>716185442 (OP)
Yes. I DO like seeing number go up. I DO like mashing attack. I DO like casting heal when hp is low. And there is NOTHING you can do to change my mind.

Icycalm already solved this in 2008.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180117101924/http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/
https://web.archive.org/web/20180118011001/http://insomnia.ac/commentary/the_rpg_conundrum/

I think we can all agree that the epic battle fantasy series should be the gold standard of all future jrpgs

>>716219224
>proto Hulkenberg
Neat

>>716233187
>pokemon sucks because of its core gimmick of symmetric stats and having the player battle the AI on even footing (*99% of the time)
sounds like pokemon is not for you
it's true the ai could be improved (e.g. switching, fewer 1-trick ponies) however

>>716234447
I just put it in set mode, use 6 pokemon and don't use items mid battle. It's just that simple before gen 6 exp share and awkward level curve. The "core gimmick" isn't really a gimmick the game is balanced around pvp considering "broken" stuff like smeargle gets nerfs all the time if the game was pve focused they wouldn't bother.

>>716185531
THIS
fpbp
/thread
OP is a faggot.

>>716185803
>pictoseconds where /v/ hasnt glazed this overrated crap: 0.000000047

>>716235741
If turn-based is so perfect, then why do the games severely underperform?

>>716185803
reminder this overrated shilled piece of shit didn't do anything new for the jarpig genre and only banked on FF fags having never played a single JRPG outside their franchise

>>716234447
>it's true the ai could be improved
imo, one of the main problems too me is that the AI relies too much on status reducing moves when they don't have a superior type mon. And worse, npc trainers spam it even more when they have a single mon in their team.
I know that putting 6 pokémons at the hands of every trainer would become too bothersome with how much random npcs you have to battle through the game, but at least gym leaders should have them. also, level scaling to the last 4 of them and the elite 4/champions.
The Max Lair Adventures in SwSh is challenging as fuck specially Groudon and Zygarde because you can't bring a single one of your mons to it. join this with how dumb your team AI is and how merciless the enemies can be and you'll have some of the most challenging battles in entire Pokémon history.

>>716236582
Because it doesn't need to appeal to everyone. If you don't like turn based combat that's fine, play an action game.

>>716185442 (OP)
>Souls fans be like: roll roll parry repeat
>Mario fans be like: woowie zowiee bing bing
>Shooters fans be: pew pew behind the same walls
>Horror fans be like: shitty jumpscares
>Gacha fans be like: autistic pedo incels models

YOOO. THIS GAMEPLAY FIRE

>>716185442 (OP)
Place emphasis on turn order manipulation and either positioning or formations. Make status effects, buffs, and debuffs useful.

>>716236582
>severely underperform
9 in 10 publishers says their turn-based games surpass their sales expectations so your point?

>>716185442 (OP)
Remove battle animations. And... that's it.

>>716203370
retard

>>716236895
>PC sales
kek

>>716185442 (OP)
What Turn Based Game?

RPGs? Depends on the type. Classic is already perfected, has its intended niche, and still outsells most other games (Dragon Quest). Active? Still used, often masked though, and still successful. Custom? Not nearly as widespread because of SQuenix patent faggotry, so people have to reinvent the system to get around it.

Strategies? They're also fine. Civ games have way worse shit going on than its gameplay loop which is effectively solved and still effective. Others of the same type typically don't stray from the formula because it both works and is ideal for its intended consumer base.

Puzzles? Depends entirely on the type of puzzles and variety included.

Action? It's already filled with various innovations that keep it consistently engaging unless you make the mistake of going full numbers autism. Tales games typically do well in this regard, as do games like Radiata Stories.

So what exacty kind of Turn Based games are you trying to "fix"? The entire type itself is too diverse for any one-fix solution. Which one has you disgruntled the most?

>>716225434
Anon, congrats, you are a clown. See >>716186010 for further information.

>>716185442 (OP)
Add QTEs for things so the players have some influence

>>716236582
yet pokemon's last unpolished turd a staggering, record-breaking 28 million. curious

>>716232746
>the main problem with dragon quarter is that difficulty is at its highest when starting out.
This is not exclusive to Dragon Quarter. Almost all RPGs have an inverted difficulty curve that cannot answer to highly-skilled or highly-knowledgeable players because at the core, RPGs are built atop the foundation of puzzle game mechanics, where knowing the solutions and patterns removes a large chunk of the challenge. Unfortunately, few RPGs have the balls to do what actual puzzle games do to keep the challenge relevant after the player has mastered the base mechanics, and this is partially because most RPGs do not grade the player's performance in a meaningful way or adapt to their skill/performance level.

>>716236853
>he gets his kicks out of whoring for attention on a caveman painting forum
you're a miserable pathetic existence

>>716239227
The players having direct influence superseding the stats of the character playing out is the antithesis of a RPG.

>>716185442 (OP)
remove the turns and make it based

>>716239301
>This is not exclusive to Dragon Quarter. Almost all RPGs have an inverted difficulty curve that cannot answer to highly-skilled or highly-knowledgeable players
you miss the point.
in dragon quarter mistakes snowball thanks to the D-counter. to remedy this, the game lets you reload saves and keep all your loot and EXP, or to start anew with all the items and money in the bank. I found it interesting to be honest, but most people hate playing through things a second time, so of course reception was lukewarm at best

>>716239252
It's funny that salesfags always assume that video game purchasers are rationally motivated. Brand value, habit, and nostalgia are significantly more influential in most people's decision to buy than quality or complexity. Gamefreak could make the next pokemon a fucking idle game and it'd sell gangbusters

>>716239532
How the fuck does my post miss the point?
New/Scrub players rely too much on D-Dive and can't survive the base game without restarting due to a lack of skill (poor or no trap/bait use, poor tactical decision making, insufficient exploration, lack of knowledge of enemy behaviors). The game feels impossible to them.
Skilled players don't ever use D-Dive because they understand how to pre-game otherwise impossible encounters to swing them in their favor, know which battles to avoid entirely/D-Dash through, explore every nook and cranny so they don't miss out on critical weapons and skills, and exploit enemy behavior rather than be at the mercy of it.
New players get filtered because of a lack of skill and knowledge, while skilled players are effectively "punished" for being good at the game since there is no answer to someone who is extremely good at it. They bypass the intended challenge and there is nothing left for them besides the underdeveloped scoring mechanics (single-run 1/4 ranking) and time attack (speedtr*nny shit).

>>716189382
>I'm saying that turn based games have no reason to exist other than to make the game more relaxed.
This is ridiculous logic, or perhaps you just phrased it really badly. The point of a game being turn-based IS to have more of a relaxed pace to the combat, allowing more emphasis to be placed on decision making and planning, over more active things like multi-tasking and reaction times.

If anything, a turn-based RPG is more like an extremely dynamic puzzle game. With every encounter being a series of semi-random puzzles (combat encounters, exploration) that you bring your own pieces (characters, builds, and items) to and attempt to "solve" (win/survive).

A lot of developers err on the side of making things too static and easy. But there are games that allow you to exercise more freedom in the pieces you pick like Etrian Odyssey or XCOM.
There are even actual hardcore games that take this idea to its practical extremes like Fear & Hunger where the game is basically just constant "knowledge checks" back-to-back that either make you lose instantly or put you in loss-conditions (you're so fucked you should probably re-load an earlier save or just start all over).

>>716188475
Earthbound.
>Ness has normal hair
>Either Ness or Poo are going to be your heroes
>I guess Paula's technically a dorky mage
>Zero whores besides Flying Man
>Poo fits in best here but he's a jobber until you level him up

>>716188475
Radiata Stories, the antithesis of your claim.

>>716239301
>or adapt to their skill/performance level.
you haven't learned anything from final fantasy's VIII shitty dynamic difficulty that no one liked. what's worse, you could game it easily by carding to avoid gaining EXP and abusing junctions to make up for your pitiful stats, leading to enemies weaker than mosquitoes while you had endgame stats
scaling is retarded and opens a new can of worms: twinking (i.e. get as strong as you can without triggering dynamic difficulty). not to mention that it flattens the difficulty curve and negates the party's progress as enemies will get stronger to make up for any levels you gain instead of as you progress

>>716239612
It might actually be due to the fact that jrpgs are actually seen as excessively complicated to zoomers.
>Cope
How come there are so many zoomoid retards that call shit a "leftist meme" just because you wrote a short paragraph

>>716240125
you still miss the point.
unlike in most RPGs, in DQ D-dive overuse will leave your D-counter too high to progress, forcing a reset. i.e. no matter how skilled and knowledgeable you are, if your D-counter is too high, you won't beat the game
understand the difference now?

>>716193617
both look grainy

>>716241159
If you go elf route you do a genocide which is so based

One of the best games ever made IMO

>boss' attacks charm you
>didn't bring charm heal items
>have to quit without trying to buy items
>sit through long cutscene again
These games should tell you exactly what the enemies do you before you fight them. How is that fair or fun?

>>716241810
>no matter how skilled and knowledgeable you are, if your D-counter is too high
It is you who is missing the point. A skilled player does not allow their D-Counter to get high enough to become a problem to begin with.

>>716242043
>Not being prepared for all status effects at all times
Couldn't be me

>>716241951
And if you do the Human Route you also do a genocide and end up proving the elves were 100% right.

>>716185442 (OP)
You can go the borrowing turns mechanic way (Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler) or the action command way (Mario & Luigi series, Expedition 33).

>>716220875
italian pizza isn't authentic, much less pizza, because an italian slapped cheese on bread. it's italian pizza because it a specific family of recognizable dish
>muh authenticity
pizza is literally improv peasant food. you slap a sauce, some of the milk products you got from your cow, and some stuff from the garden that you wanna use up. the most popular and widely recognizable pizzas were made by italian-american immigrants, and the best product in that style doesn't even use "traditional ingredients" like high moisture cheeses.

there is no ship to theseus over here. your fuckin pizza was already multicultural you dip

>>716227512
>persistent upgradeable stats or equipment that gives an advantage. it's an RPG
devil may cry is an RPG
shadow warrior (2013) is an RPG
donkey kong bananza is an RPG

>>716242567
>Expedition 33)
Fuck you

>>716242243
>A skilled player does not allow their D-Counter to get high enough
you're speaking in hindsight moron
most people will expect it to go down at inns, or to find items to make it go down.
the problem is telling players outright that there's no way to get it down is immersion-breaking, so there's no way to solve the problem

It's simple.
Dont use spreadsheets to optimize.
Just like have fun
You're no better than the guys who pick the canon route every time.

>>716243306
>just have fun bro
>enjoy the game being 2x harder because you didn't bother to look up that leveling up with certain items equipped causes your stats to go up bro
>enjoy missing out on the ultimate weapons because you didn't take a detour to a store to grab a magazine in disc 1 bro

>>716243485
>>enjoy the game being 2x harder because you didn't bother to look up that leveling up with certain items equipped causes your stats to go up bro
this without a single shred of irony.
I intentionally wait a year before doing anything in roller coaster tycoon so I have less time to get the guest count.

>>716243084
>you're speaking in hindsight moron
Is there something wrong with this?
Why is it OK for a shmup or a platformer to ask the player to memorize patterns and play repeatedly to learn how to clear the game, but when an RPG does it it's the devil incarnate?

>>716242043
>go into charm dungeon
>fight enemies who charm the entire way through
>get to boss
>it charms you
>*shocked pikachu*

>>716244098
Not him but probably because you can retry a platforming level in a matter of minutes whereas RPGs tend to take dozens of hours

>>716242567
what about the Press Turn mechanic? (Persona, SMT)

>>716244387
Slop mechanic.
You shouldn't be rewarding players for doing something they should already be doing anyway. Hitting a foe's weak point while covering your own weaknesses is FUNDAMENTAL RPG gameplay - to reward the player for engaging with the FUNDAMENTALS of the game instead of asking them to engage with higher order gameplay is like rewarding someone for breathing correctly.

>>716244548
what kind of higher order gameplay would you be referring to? Any turn based games who do this well?

>>716244548
You're also punished harder for *not* covering weaknesses, you seem to forget.

>>716244703
Dealing more damage and suffering increased damage is already the reward/punishment for failure to engage with the fundamental gameplay.
By adding further reward/punishment to something the player should ALREADY BE DOING because it is a CORE FUNDAMENTAL of the game, you devalue actual high-level play.
It's the first step towards other garbage systems/mechanics in shitty JRPGs like "break" and "stagger" mechanics. Rather than allowing the fundamentals to be the cornerstone of the gameplay, you are relegating it to "prescribed" gameplay where, rather than a viable option, it is the one and only answer.

>>716244387
That's fine too. I personally don't like it, though, since I feel it doesn't really add much.

>>716244972
>Dealing more damage and suffering increased damage is already the reward/punishment for failure to engage with the fundamental gameplay.
But it's usually not. In most RPGs you can just ignore that shit because the boss still doesn't one shot you when you have a weakness and dealing less damage just draws out the fight longer. You can still heal off any damage you take though so it doesn't actually matter how long they take to kill.

>>716244972
>noooo you can't make exploiting weaknesses a mandatory to triumph because it "devalues" the skill ceiling and punishes skilled players rrrreeeeeee
I don't know how many layers of irony you're under but I think I've lost count

>>716245230
OK. But consider the following scenario:
>(You) have a wind spell that has a 50% chance to stun a foe (losing their turn), a poison spell with a 50% chance to inflict poison (reduces foe's magic power+slip damage), and a water spell (no additional effects)
>the enemy is weak to water, resists wind, and neutral to poison
In a normal game, all of these are viable options because even the ability the enemy resists has its purpose - a 50% chance to deprive the foe of their action for a round is a big deal in any game.
In press turn, you immediately eliminate all except the water spell as "viable" because using the wind spell will put you at a disadvantage (losing turn icons), using poison will only consume an icon, and using water will gain you half an icon. By creating "fake depth" with low-tier action economy, you inadvertently create a shallower game and invalidate what would be viable strategic choices in any other game. When the whole game is built around using only what is "statistically effective" rather than what is "practically effective", there is no game left.

>>716189550
Damn i was baiting for a rec, EO series it is then

>>716185442 (OP)
It doesn't need fixing. Just don't play the boring ones, like FF or Expedition 33 or Pokemon.

>>716193792
Yes, JRPG means Japanese RPG and anyone pretending it's a stylistic thing like this retard
>>716194363
can and should be ignored.

>>716210075
If you make cheese in your basement, it's not Parmesan cheese.

>>716185442 (OP)
I think it's fine as is but I only play smt

>>716244387
Persona isn't press turn. It's one more system which is press turn but with the edges sanded down for minimal friction so faggots can get through a dungeon with minimal effort then go back to their vn segments

>>716185442 (OP)
This is literally every computer game ever made, just with more windowdressing.

>>716193617
Its an FRPG (france rpg)

>>716185442 (OP)
add a DODGE/PARRY button

also, fortnite dances after each successful battle

>>716245801
>In press turn, you immediately eliminate all except the water spell as "viable" because using the wind spell will put you at a disadvantage (losing turn icons), using poison will only consume an icon, and using water will gain you half an icon.
That's not even necessarily true. If you already have a blinking press turn, you can use something they resist and still get the maximum number of press turns possible. That's why a common strategy is to hit a weakness and then do something else that wouldn't have otherwise been ideal if you had no blinking press turns to use.

>>716185531
FPBP. Four niggas in a row will continue to be timeless

>>716185442 (OP)
the ONLY turd cringe combat games i have enjoyed was valkyria chronicles and fallout 1 & 2
i tolerate people that like tbc, but i won't and i don't expect going in theirs turf, same goes for them - not forcing this shitty niche genre on the others

>>716248827
>valkyria chronicles
Funny I thought that was one of the more boring and simplistic ones when I tried it. Does it get better?

>>716248936
Oh I just realized I was thinking of Valkyrie Profile never mind. Valkyria Chronicles was fun

>>716244238
Stop assuming things just to lower your fellow man and make me look bad.
It was a volcano fire dungeon with fire enemies and fire attacks.

Honestly, playing an RPG In Excel sounds like it could be kind of fun.

>>716185442 (OP)
we kill everyone born before final fantasy 10 and permanently ban turn based games

>>716193968
Post that on /tg/ i dare you.

>>716185442 (OP)
I will never not cringe at "people" speaking in ebonics

>>716188024
>comparing controlling large swaths of replacable mass produced units that have very limited actions and customization to a party based RPG
This is bait, right.

>>716187493
(You), retard.

>>716253251
You've never played a custom Warcraft map and had to control someone else's characters because they left mid game, lil bro?

>>716188024
RTS is one of the most widely hated game genres ever.
>constantly switching between base and the corners of the map where your units are
>need to learn a fuckton of hotkeys of you'll lose
>losing a single civvie early game warrants a reset (loses you tens of thousands in resources cumulatively)
>a gorillion clicks per second to micromanage units (e.g. positioning, dodging, manual aiming of projectiles, targeting, ability use). meanwhile you need to tend to the rest of the base as battles breaks out
>damage thresholds to calculate what units would prevail in a skirmish
they're not called gookclickers for nothing

>>716185442 (OP)
Basically this>>716185531
There's no need to fix it, turn based as it is has an audience that enjoys it well enough and if you dislike it there's more games than ever before available without it.
I know it's a bit of a copout to say "don't like it, don't play it" but honestly there's nothing that needs fixing there and not everything has to appeal to you.

>>716259076
I think a major issue is people trying one Final Fantasy game, not liking it, and then declaring the entire genre to be shit rather than trying to find something they like.

>>716185442 (OP)
Play wizardry or HOMM

>>716259278
Or any other entry level title that basically turned them away.
There's that but ultimately some things just exist for different audiences and don't really overlap. Some people really want competition and feel hollow when winning solo games, some people prefer planning out actions in turns rather than improvising on the fly in action, some people love loud blasting and dropkicking action and some people prefer collecting items and exploring abandoned areas filled with mystery.
It's up to preference, and while I wouldn't consider turn based as something necessarily "niche" in nature, I do think the appeal it has doesn't need to be altered so that all audiences can find something in it. Same goes for actual niche stuff, it shouldn't change just because someone liked the visuals but hated the gameplay.

>>716256978
Those just classic “I’m bad at this game, so the game must be bad” /v/ tantrum
Also i am not saying whether RTS games are good or bad, the point is, controlling 4 or even 10 units at once isn’t a good excuse to justify game to be turn based

>>716185442 (OP)
Kek, I actually made a JRPG in Excel.
Didn't have Don Cheadle though, so it never took off.

>>716185442 (OP)
SaGa Emerald Beyond fixed most things already. So well in fact that the RS2 remake that came out after felt worse to play

>>716185442 (OP)
>big tit princess
it's fine as it is

>>716261535
The absolute state of SaGatards

>>716262474
>muslim girl in japanese game
this is modded right?

>>716262474
It's always fun seeing this webm and how utter retards use it for shitposting when nobody but the people who played the game actually understand what's happening

>>716195085
>>716202764
Just play Pokemon's multiplayer then.

>>716185531
>t. low IQ

>>716247746
Faggot RPG*

>>716193909
He's right. His prediction that JRPG's and japanese proclivities would eventually morph into moviegames is also correct and came true.

Japs just want to watch movies. White people want to play interactive and dynamic games.

>>716263316
Right. Because the western video game industry just does not make movie games.

>>716263428
Correction: The western games industry makes more than movie games and movie games themselves are more like an alien transplanted species forced into the western gaming market by publishers et al coming over from hollywood, who don't understand the market at all, and whose games are largely panned and ignored while game design expands out and around the movie cancer.

In japan the reverse is true. Their games are converging into digital movies, it's not something being forced on them, it's what they're choosing.

>>716263798
>In japan the reverse is true. Their games are converging into digital movies, it's not something being forced on them, it's what they're choosing.
Uh-huh... And what is your proof of this? Visual novels have been declining in popularity for over a decade. What is the most recent high-profile game that meets this description?

Even things like yugioh or fucking chess have time limits on your turns yet a lot of turn based JRPGs don't
That's why everyone makes fun of you retards, one of the easiest genres in vidya and you still need infinite time to make a big decision to uh...attack or heal
lol
lmao even

Expert bait, sister

this gorilla negro is so fucking retard for FE, Tactics Ogre, Langrisser, Growlanser, Farland, Dragonforce, Shining Force, Brigandine, Unicorn Overlord, Triangle Strategy and Majin Tensei

>>716233449
tl;dr

>>716239394
Found the autistic pedo

>>716185442 (OP)
>action sloppers really be like this gameplay fire : A, A, A, A, A,A,A,B. A,A,A,A,A,A,Bbbbbbbbbbb.
how do you fix action slop?
no really, how?

>>716262614
>It's always fun
I enjoy how this is phrase is used so often for copes

>>716264930
Uhhh, in English please? [Audience laughs]

>>716185531
This. Only ADHD-addled RETARDS hate turn-BASED combat

>>716267121
I'm not the mindbroken schizo posting the same webm over and over again trying to convince people to hate a game without presenting any actual argument.
But maybe if you keep posting it for a couple more years and whine about imaginary muslims you might convince some people that you're not the one coping, we all know you're doing this after getting brutally humiliated

>>716236671
Correct, it did nothing new.
It just did shit that all the major studios haven't done in years and surprise, that's what the people who play jrpgs wanted.

>>716267684
>imaginary muslims
I didn't bring that up, weird fixation you have there.

>>716188475
Dragon Quest I
Dragon Quest III
Dragon Quest V
Dragon Quest IX
Dragon Quest XI
Octopath Traveler
Octopath Traveler II
Super Mario RPG
Paper Mario
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
Mario & Luigi: Dream Team
Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam
Mario & Luigi: Brothership
Pokemon Red
Pokemon Blue
Pokemon Green
Pokemon Yellow
Pokemon Gold
Pokemon Silver
Pokemon Crystel
Pokemon Ruby
Pokemon Sapphire
Pokemon Emerald
Pokemon Fire Red
Pokemon Leaf Green
Pokemon Diamond
Pokemon Pearl
Pokemon Platinum
Pokemon Heart Gold
Pokemon Soul Silver
Pokemon Black
Pokemon White
Pokemon Black 2
Pokemon White 2
Xenoblade
Xenoblade X
Xenoblade 2
Xenoblade 3
Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot
Dragon Ball Z: Legacy of Goku
Dragon Ball Z: Legacy of Goku 2

>>716194363
JRPG =/= turn based RPG

Xenoblade is a JRPG series
Dark Souls is a JRPG series
Pokemon is a JRPG series
Tales of is a JRPG series
Ys is a JRPG series

Expedition 33 is NOT a JRPG series
West of Loathing is NOT a JRPG series

>>716202582
SRPGs exist. Never heard of FF Tactics? Fire Emblem? Kamidori Alchemy Meister?

>>716185442 (OP)
I think SRPGS are just better and more interactive than RPGs. Is there an srpg that allows you to control a character through an over world like a jrpg?

>>716269270
FE Echoes does that with the dungeon segments but it's pretty shit in a lot of ways because they barely changed anything even though it's a remake of the second game in the franchise from 1992.

>>716269270

Speaking about excel

>>716185442 (OP)
You don't.
You expand on it, you make something fun using turn based as a base.
The maligned chrono cross does it quite well.

>>716269998
No it doesn't. Chrono Cross is absolutely ghastly to play. The only thing it has going for it is its music, because story and gameplay both impart the same feeling of unsatisfaction you get when you drink flat sparkling water. It has no zing and it tastes of a hint of flavor with no substance there.

There are plenty of fantastic turn based RPGs with interesting combat mechanics, and among their numbers I would never count Chrono Cross.

>>716231780
The fact that, to this day, RPG Maker doesn't have a version that lets you do this Mario RPG style combat is crazy to me.
Mario RPG, Mario & Luigi series and the Paper Mario series all have this kind of combat where the actual fights are more interactive, with Mario & Luigi being the best, and you would think RPG Maker would have a version that did it.

>>716185442 (OP)
turn it into ATB

>>716233174
Nigger zoom zoom

>>716272019
in all honesty the QTE minigames are cool the first hundred or so times as a novelty but it gets kind of old doing them after a while. plus you get too good at them you break the game in half. especially super guard, so they're a balancing nightmare

>>716272952
I mean that's fine, I'd still like to fuck around with them in RPG maker

>>716273003
Then implement it yourself. There is nothing stopping you from doing this. Hell, it's possible even in 2k/2k3 if you are skilled at custom systems dev.

>>716273404
I've tried on multiple occassions but it never *feels* quite right. It's probably a skill issue, one I'm not confident enough in figurine out.

>>716267197
shut the fuck up, cum guzzler

>>716193909
Wow this is nice summary. West is eating good

>>716263316
Yep. Kotor 1 and 2 were some of best RPG games I've played, and apparently New Vegas was also very good. I can't say the same about Kojima RPGs

>>716201179
>he's a fucking pompous, racist
Just say based next time

>>716266594
Let's see how you'll fare when you mash only one button in any action game

>>716185442 (OP)
.

>>716193909
>crpg choice
>make your character however you want!
>btw NPCs will never ever talk about your character's attributes beyond mentioning your race because writers can't be arsed to account for all 283482394 gorillion combinations of facial features and body shapes
>btw NPCs respawn because otherwise the game would become unwinnable. don't tell me you expected additional scenarios if you tried to take the story off the rails, lol faggot
>btw any interactions with the world are pre-written and scripted. nothing is spontaneous
wow CRPGs are so much better!

>>716282051
>btw NPCs respawn because otherwise the game would become unwinnable
Let me guess, you never played Morrowind

>>716188024
>comparing jrpgs to clickslop

>>716282239
>otherwise the game would become unwinnable
any guess as to what happens in morrowind?

>>716276548
He isn't based gigantic faggot, he's fucking stupid and a liar

>>716282367
The game soft-locks and you have to load save game

>>716282375
How do you survive in the real world?

>>716282604
hitting in the fucking mouth every stupid faggot that dares to contradict my opinions, wanna be the next? that's my way to fixing things in the real world, chingadazo en el hocico o fuscazo en la mema? your choice

>>716284748
basado el hombre biblioteca

>>716284903
muchos gracias senor, tenho usado muito la reddît

>>716211814
Sounds kino. Have a link?

>>716284903
thanks, library man is my favorite robot master

>>716282497
Yeah, as opposed to taking the story in a new direction.

>>716193909
This jackass talks like the archnemesis of the gas pumps from Barkley.

>>716275775
>is
Was. WRPGs have not been good for 20 years.

>>716288838
>WRPGs have not been good for 20 y-ACK!

>>716193909
based and truthpilled
The aryan spirit triumphs over chink slop, as ever

>>716289080
based

>>716289080
Yes, they haven't been good for 20 years. Though I played before numerous patches, I found numerous things worse than the bear sex.

>>716289316
to be honest the bear sex thing wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way if they hadn't tried to virtue signal and pass it off as "omg some heccin glorious lgbt representation. no its totally not bestiality cuz he's just morphed into a bear"

>>716278693
Couldn’t you grind to defeat any boss in any rpg. Don’t pretend like you actually perfectly Min/Max in every RPG. You can’t even perfectly min/max without knowing the entire game beforehand. What’s the fucking point. It’s about time we rid our future generations of these autism magnets.

>>716185442 (OP)
Add parrying

>>716289964
granted but all enemies chunk you for over 50% of your max hp assuming an adequately leveled party. better git gud

>>716185442 (OP)
It's literally one dimensional, because the fights revolve around bringing hp to 0

>>716290534
alternate win conditions exist
>petrify and freeze
>instant death
>talk and dialogue trees
>scaling poison
>gimmicky fights where you need to do something like break a cage or door, push an enemy back, shove someone off a cliff, feed an enemy certain items, load up a cannon or survive until something fires, etc.

I like it when a game forces you to pull out the pen and paper and take notes. Boomers like me used to do that all the time before the internet.

I’m probably the only fag on /v/ who unironically had a penpal. As in fucking letters with stamps and shit.

>>716236582
Don't make a shitty P5 reskin and pretend it's a fantasy game.

>>716262474
What's wrong with this webm?

>>716291781
there's a terrorist in it

>>716291386
Didn't read. I wanna sniff and lick Loona's sweaty asshole

>>716291386
I'm also a boomer but I never had to take notes. Do you have the memory of a goldfish? What games were you playing?
Only things I had written down were cheats I got from the playground vine and codes I unlocked to load levels if the game didn't have a save system.

>>716292452
not him but games like uninvited required you to take notes for stuff like spell names and their effects. others relied on the manual. suffice to say that games weren't as handholdy as they are today

>>716185442 (OP)
FF16 bros...