Why didn't Bethesda make this an RPG like the other Fallouts?

>>716199136 (OP)
I’m still mad about Nuka-World

>>716199136 (OP)
Explain why it's not an RPG

>>716200290
explain why it is.

>>716200523
Because it has everything an RPG should have? You have Special, perks, choices in dialogue and quests, multiple endings, and all of that
Just because they took away skills and gave the character a voice doesn't stop it from being an RPG
Imo Fallout 4 is a much more RPG than Fallout 3, Lone Survivor is a much less defined character than Lone Wanderer despite having a voice

>>716200712
>choices in dialogue
lol

>>716200796
Yes anon, despite the limited dialogue system Fallout 4 has far more real choices than Fallout 1, 2, 3 and is not that far off from New Vegas

>>716200885
There's one choice and it's which faction you pick.

>>716201002
There are plenty of choices in Fallout 4
You either haven't even played it or you're just dishonest

>>716201223
The only choice is to do something or not to do it.
There is no alternative path in any quest except the robot pirate ship.

>>716199136 (OP)
its called accessibility, chud. do you think women and bipoc would grasp the idea of rpg, character sheet, and alladat?

>>716200220
Nuka-World DLC was so insanely shit despite it being a cool world/map.
But also
>No good factions, just the same shade of shit
>Minutemen faction not being prominently tied to settlement building, which would give it a reason to exist
Still played it for like 250 hours so can't complain too much

>>716201726

>>716200712
Fallout 4 is as much of an RPG as borderlands is

>>716202867
Then Borderlands is more of an RPG than Fallout 1, 2, and 3

>>716202926
>Borderlands is more of an RPG than Fallout 1, 2, and 3
Thanks, now we all know not to take you seriously

>>716202975
You said that, not me

>>716199136 (OP)
Todd's favorite game is ultima, the theory is that he keeps trying to make his games closer and closer to it. That or todd is always trying to simplify games. At first it wasn't too bad, you went from morrowinds complexity to oblivion. Fallout 2 to fallout 3. But then it was skyrim which was significantly dumbed down compared to oblivion, and then fallout 4 which barely even had choice. No idea about starfield, never played it.

>>716199136 (OP)
Bethesda still think that proper RPGs don't sell so they are still making action games with RPG elements.
All while games like Baldur's Gate 3 which are fully fledged RPGs dance on their graves.

>>716203129
>allout 4 which barely even had choice
>Literally the only game Todd made that had multiple endings
You people are really obsessed with your blind hatred for Fallout 4

>>716203265
Infamous has more meaningful choices than Fallout 4

>>716203265
I don't hate fallout 4, i still play it from time to time, but its rpg mechanics are inferior to fallout 3, which is what i was referring to.

>>716203437
You people are really delusional lol
>>716203442
Name it, what exactly makes Fallout 3 so much better

>>716203549
Undertale has more impactful choices than Fallout 4

>>716203549
skill system in tandem with the perk system, weapon repair, stat and skill checks in dialogue fallout 4 has this too but to a lesser degree. Non-voiced protagonist, the ability to have more than 4 dialogue choices on the screen as base. Less of a focus on base building and world building which bethesda did themselves. A lot of this is rectified by mods, but it shouldn't come to that.

>>716201949
>accessibility
LMAO yeah bro, wouldn’t want those scary stats and dialogue trees making people think during gameplay. Gotta make sure every conversation wheel is just “yes,” “sarcastic yes,” “mean yes,” or “question before yes.” Todd did it for the culture.

>>716204101
HATE NEWSPAPERS

>>716200712
>choices in dialogue
>"Yes"
>"No (Yes)"
"Yes (Sarcastic)

>>716203914
>skill system in tandem with the perk system
What exactly does fallout 3 have that fallout 4's system doesn't have?
>weapon repair
Everyone loves it so much that they just take the perk which basically removes the need to think about repairs altogether
>stat and skill checks in dialogue fallout 4 has this too
Fallout 3 only has speech and barter checks if I remember correctly, basically the same thing as Fallout 4
>Non-voiced protagonist
Fallout 3 protagonist is much more defined than Lone Survivor despite the voice acting
>the ability to have more than 4 dialogue choices on the screen as base
And how often does it happen? With few exceptions, Fallout 3 has fewer different dialogue choices or they're just spread across different options. Instead of having an ‘ask more’ button you have three different buttons that essentially do the same thing, such a big difference
>Less of a focus on base building and world building which bethesda did themselves
And somehow Fallout 3 has about as many proper settlements as Fallout 4 does
>A lot of this is rectified by mods, but it shouldn't come to that
Fallout 3 also has a lot of problems for which you need mods and fixing Fallout 4 is easier than fixing Fallout 3
>>716204613
Fallout 3 and other Bethesda games usually only have a ‘yes’ and ‘tell me more’ option

>>716204702
>Fallout 3 and other Bethesda games usually only have a ‘yes’ and ‘tell me more’ option
...which is why they're shit

>>716204746
Yeah, same thing with Fallout 1 and 2, they are very linear and have limited dialogue choices

>>716199136 (OP)
Just like how they made Oblivion with guns, they made Skyrim with guns, and just like how Skyrim was a dumbed down Oblivion, 4 is a dumbed down 3/4. Bethesda has found the formula and will not be straying from it, especially with the Fallout franchise which they could give less of a shit about.

>>716204803
Yeah, we totally believe you

>>716204702
>What exactly does fallout 3 have that fallout 4's system doesn't have?
I already explained this. i feel as if you're just arguing for the sake of it and trying to play dumb to drag every explanation out for attention, which I don't feel like doing.
>Fallout 3 also has a lot of problems for which you need mods and fixing Fallout 4 is easier than fixing Fallout 3
reverse, actually. Fallout 4 is more limiting in what you can mod compared to fallout 3.

>>716201949
you're right. we've already destroyed our schools, our shopping malls, parks, beaches, neighborhoods, our entire society really for the blacks, lets ruin our RPGs as well. FUCK IT.

>>716200712
RPG stands for ROLE PLAYING GAME you stupid worthless shitter, just because I am free to choose what weapon to use and watch meaningless number go up doesn't make it an RPG. FO4 is an insult to what the original games and NV stood for. There is no freedom of choice in your semen excuse of a game.

>>716204810
>Fallout 4 is just Skyrim with guns and simplified 3/NV
>Brought back mechanics straight from Morrowind and NV
/v/ really doesn't play games
>>716204936
>I already explained this
You haven't explained what Fallout 3 has that Fallout 4 doesn't. You just keep repeating ‘Fallout 3 RPG mechanics are better’ over and over again
>reverse, actually. Fallout 4 is more limiting in what you can mod compared to fallout 3.
That's not true at all
To start with Fallout 3 modding is dead, all worthwhile mods go to NV and TTW. And while NV has very impressive mods it also has limitations. I say both games have worthwhile mods
>>716205162
Let me guess you haven't even played Fallout 4 and you're judging it by the few screenshots that people post here
Fallout 4 has more choices and endings than the original fallout and fallout 3 by the way.
Who even started this myth that Fallout 4 is a Borderlands copy? That shit is fucking nonsensical.

>>716205352

>>716205501
You can't say anything in the face of obvious facts so you just pretend to win
Honestly maybe Fallout deserves to die with a community full of people like you

>>716205578
>Fallout deserves to die
Considering what the current devs have been doing to the series, I'd agree

>>716199136 (OP)
Baldur's Gate convincing Gen X'rs that RPG = multiple dialogue options has done incalculable damage to the industry

>>716205632
Don't make it sound like it's only Bethesda's problem
Interplay and original developers have done more damage to Fallout than Todd could even dream of

>>716205578
it's more that you're very obviously arguing in bad faith, so most people have no energy to deal with you. It's easier to ignore or mock you.

>>716202440
>guy went silent when confronted with kid in a fridge
the absolute state of new vegas fans

>>716206052
Since when did posing obvious facts become arguing in a bad faith?
The only thing I can think of is my response to gun repair but nobody really liked it, guns falling apart after 100 rounds is just stupid
Besides you're obviously moving the goalpost
>F3 RPG system is better than F4
>Why
>F3 RPG system is better than F4
>Why
>I already answered your question
>No, you didn't
>You're arguing in a bad faith

>>716207506
The explanation was that there are
>more stat/skill checks in conversations
>skills & perks in fallout 3 as opposed to fallout 4's perks alone
>weapon repair
>less of a focus on base building and more of a focus on world building
>more dialogue choice options in comparison to fallout 4's base choices
In which you then pretended to not understand the most basic shit in existence
>erm, what is skill and perks system? how is that different from fallout 4?????
Do you think people don't notice you acting like a retard on purpose to avoid a basic point? Or when you try to pretend fallout 4's dialogue is anywhere near comparable to fallout 1 or 2? Again, there's a reason why everyone stopped talking to you, and no its not because you're just that good at debating or your argument is ironclad. Why even bother discussing shit with someone when they try to make the discussion like pulling teeth?

>>716199136 (OP)
bethesda would rather cease to exist than hire a good lead writer. it's such a fucking shame

>>716205797
such as creating it and it being a unexpected break out hit for them? so much that F2 got speedrailed in eight months to satisfy the hype

dont confuse interplays mismanagement and stunningly incompetent owner with fallout being some sort of failure for them. pieces of what would have been black isles F3 (van buren), when interplay got around to finally financing its development, got resurrected in new vegas by the same people. And that is still seen as the best 3d fallout

>>716208248
how emil, even if he is todds good friend, has not been promoted away to some less harmful position is beyond me

but on the other hand with this kind of leadership doubt the talent growing up from the lower ranks is any better. Seems like they have a systemic problem of toxic positivity, where its not allowed to call out dumbfucks for their retarded ideas

>>716199136 (OP)
Because every Fallout game up to that point had shit RPG mechanics and shit combat. Going for dogshit RPG mechanics but serviceable combat ultimately makes it the best one in terms of gameplay for the entire franchise.

>>716207862
>more stat/skill checks in conversations
Fallout 3 has very few skill checks and it is limited to speech and barter, essentially the same as Fallout 4
>skills & perks in fallout 3 as opposed to fallout 4's perks alone
The form has changed, but content remains the same. All the effects of skills just moved to separate perks, in practice the whole system is essentially the same
>weapon repair
Valid point but nobody liked repairing guns
>less of a focus on base building and more of a focus on world building
These are just broad statements. Fallout 4 has no focus on building, you can pretty much avoid it completely without losing anything
>more dialogue choice options in comparison to fallout 4's base choices
But that's just not true. Fallout 3 has pretty few choices and often they are paraphrases of the same thing or something that can be put into one option. I mentioned this above, instead of having ‘tell me more’ option you have three different questions and there's essentially no difference here. It's not bad or good, it's just different
>Do you think people don't notice you acting like a retard on purpose to avoid a basic point?
Such as?
>Or when you try to pretend fallout 4's dialogue is anywhere near comparable to fallout 1 or 2?
It was a joke. You're literally criticising Fallout 4 for all the same problems Fallout 1/2 had
>Again, there's a reason why everyone stopped talking to you, and no its not because you're just that good at debating or your argument is ironclad.
It looks like you just don't want to even question the validity of your opinion. I've already responded to all these arguments from above and it was just ignored
I'd understood this if you were comparing it to New Vegas, which is actually good but Fallout 3 is literally the same as Fallout 4 but much worse

>>716208474
Developers of the original Fallout are just as guilty as Interplay and Bethesda. There are no innocent in this whole story
>got resurrected in new vegas by the same people
>by the same people
New Vegas shares less developers in common with Fallout 1 than Outer Worlds
But yeah New Vegas is the best and I never denied that. Why can't I just love both NV and F4?

>todd snaps and kills emil with a gun

>>716199136 (OP)
Is there any salvaging this pile of dogshit? Its a garbage survival game, its a mediocre shooter, its not even remotely an actual RPG. Can you mod it to be ANY decent at any of it? Can I make this a mediocre Stalker: GAMMA clone?

>>716209187
>Is there any salvaging this pile of dogshit?
Yes
>Can you mod it to be ANY decent at any of it?
Yes
> Can I make this a mediocre Stalker: GAMMA clone?
No

>>716209783
Alright what do you think fixes it because the only way forward I see is either a complete overhaul of the story and RPG mechanics, or leaning into the survival - of which you seem to be indicating to me now that there are mods that make this barely functional open world FPS an actual RPG. So lay them on me, chief.

>>716201223
ah yes, like that time we had to say yes, the other time we had to say yes, the other other time we had to say yes, the other other other time we had to say yes, etc

>>716202440
ok so we have three choices in one quest.
is that your star example, then?

>>716202440
My God how we've fallen. New Vegas wasn't even a high fucking bar. God help me.

>>716199136 (OP)
It's a better RPG than Fallout 3 was, but that's as much as I can say.

lol @ people defending 3

>>716209892
There are mods that change or add to the story.
Alternate start gives you the option to be a random dude and completely remove son story but it doesn't work well with other mods. There's a high quality Enclave faction mod. And finally there's SS2 which adds a separate storyline parallel to the main game and it adds too much to cover
As for the RPG system there is a mod that adds Skyrim system, there is a mod that adds NV system, there is a mod that changes the F4 system to be a bit more like NV but still being similar to Fallout 4 and probably something else that I'm forgetting about. There is also a mod that removes the character voice and adds new lines and skill checks throughout the game
There are mods out there expanding the survival system and even trying to turn it into le tarkov but the vanilla survival mod works well enough. I just mention that there are mods like MAIM that literally try to turn the game into Tarkov but imo it's not worth it and you're better off just playing stalker or tarkov.
>>716210341
It's literally the most complex quest in NV and I still don't understand how it works. I'm pretty sure half of these options just don't work for one reason or another
Well and I never said Fallout 4 is better than NV, I just said it's good enough and much better than Fallout 3

>>716205352
>>Brought back mechanics straight from Morrowind and NV
>wow modular armor
Consider suicide, f4apologist

>>716210695
Flight, modular armour, different types of damage and resistance, crafting, random encounters, actually good companions, multiple factions, partial auto-levelling like in NV and probably something else I'm forgetting

>>716210945
>f4
>actually good companions
Retard alert

>>716199136 (OP)
Bethesda makes (((RPGs))) for normie goycattle NPCs

>>716210986
Fallout 4 companions are better than NV ones

>>716211112
>1 int moment
Take some mentats

>>716211149
No

>>716211234
I expected nothing less from a 1int troglodyte

>>716210986
Now that's some cope, and I like NV as a game wholly more than 4. Nick, Cait, or Curie would be sucked off as great characters if they were in any other game. Even Danse or Deacon have more well enough written character development than any companion from NV

>>716211498
>pick up some locks
>get max affection with the companion
Mhm

>>716199136 (OP)
Apocalyptic shooting galleries sell more

>>716211624

>>716211782
>point out how retarded companion affection system is
>somehow this is considered a goalpost when we are talking about how f4 companions are not good
F4apologists are braindead

>>716205712
RPGs turned gay at this point. Diet point n click adventures with less gameplay

>>716199136 (OP)
I DONT CARE ABOUT ALL THE FAGGOT ASS DRAMA
I JUST WANT ANOTHER FALLOUT GAME BASED ON ACTION AND BOOBIES

>>716200220
Honestly, one of the worst parts of Fallout 4 is the lack of options when completing quests, and Nuka World is among the biggest offenders.

Meeting Cait was an eye opener
>enter building, some kinda bar with a fight club going on
>oh cool, maybe I can bet on fights, enter the ring to earn some caps and impress this obvious companion
>take one step
>someone tells "that's him, get him", entire bar stops it's pantomime and swivels to attack, it's just generic raiders dressed up like a real environment

>>716199136 (OP)
Because they're not interested in making RPGs

>>716212119
>pic
the best game in the series

>>716212195
Honestly one of my most distinct memories from Fallout 4. The wasted potential was basically oozing through the walls.
I even went back later to see if the combat zone reopened and you could do bets and fight there yourself and have some side quests involving the fighters but nah, it's just an empty nothing room.

>>716199136 (OP)
Not a single fallout game is a proper rpg and every single fallout fan has played this game because they love gobbling down slop and being offended. They don't care about video games at all. Those are hard and take effort, better to "play" slop like fallout.

>>716210624
>There are mods
This isn't an argument when discussing story.
People who want stories want it to be choices written by the devs.
Mods are fanfiction schlock

>>716212295
If Fallout 3 followed through with being a parody it could have been the best game out there

>>716212195
There are many locations like this
>cool a race track for the robots with a bunch of gangsters controlling it
>maybe this will be a quest area
>nope it's just a generic "dungeon" with faceless goons to kill

>>716212195
>>716212327
I bet it was originally planned to be an arena where you could place bets or volunteer to fight yourself but Bethesda realized that's too much work and canned it.

>>716212438
Anon asked about mods and I told him, this is a completely different discussion
You fucking retard

>>716199136 (OP)
It's clear that Bethesda thought that Fallout 4's lack of RPG systems was a huge misstep because Starfield brought in many deeper richer RPG systems and improved upon them.

>>716212195
>>716212327
That was the intention and there was cut voice lines from the main guy Tommy.
It got cut, nobody knows why but probably to make the deadline, but I imagine they wanted to keep Cait so they made it a raider encounter.

Fallout 4 has as much if not more cut content than New Vegas and a huge chunk of that game got cut too.

Pic related, vault 120 the underwater vault that got cut too.

>>716212817

>>716199136 (OP)
like bioware and most western studios - they got lazy and replaced everything with 'perks'

>>716200220
nuka world was shit but it was the best part of fallout 4 (which was total shit).

>>716199136 (OP)
Not replying to retards equating narrative choice with roleplaying
Only 1 and 2 are RPGs, the rest are hybrids (not RPGs)

>>716212894

>>716213521
how is NV not an RPG

>>716214282
The action combat
A turn based ruleset is a necessary component of an RPG
NV is a first person shooter with RPG elements

>>716211498
>Nick, Cait, or Curie would be sucked off as great characters if they were in any other game
You are confusing great with passable, See in a proper RPG you would have been given an option on how to resolves their respective quests. Why aren't I given the option making Cait an even worse addict so she will fight better ? Why aren't I given an option to make Nick forget about his past and be his own person rather than the memory of someone else. Why can't I convince curie that it would be better to remain a robot.
Also saying
>Well at least 4 out of 14 of the companions are good !
isn't doing much for you

>>716214407
>RPGs have to be turn based
just LMAO dude

>>716214592
I didn't say that and you have no argument
dumb bethestard

>>716213521
Nah anon, you are a Retard.
>1 and 2
cRPGs.
RPG includes action RPGs, computer RPGs, classic RPGs - RPGs of any kind.
So please shove that take of yours up yours and get the fuck out.

>>716200290
>>716200712
It's the stat and leveling system mainly. It's amazing what a more complex leveling system like Fallout 3/NV or Morrowind and Oblivions leveling system does to dress up non-RPGs, like betheada games. Fallout 4 and vanilla Skyrim is what you get when Bethesda stops pretending to be a RPG dev and focus instead on dungeon crawling and looter shooter design.

If you add mods to reintroduces New Vegas or Morrowind mechanics, Fallout 4 and Skyrim instantly feel like better RPGs than their predesessors. Of course, this requires extensive modding that few people will ever experience.

>>716214651
You did say that. LMAO dude hahahaha

>>716214407
>>716214592
RPG is a stolen term from tabletops and therefore does not have a real definition in the videogame world.

This is why rpgtists need to slap another letter in front of the genre to describe it. Wrpg jrpg trpg crpg arpg gayrpg lgbtrpgq

>>716214653
no, all of those derivative hybrid RPGs
adding XP and a loot treadmill to god of war doesn't make it an RPG
>>716214728
ruleset is the keyword. You can have realtme combat with an underlying turnbased ruleset

>>716206924
If you're showcasing fucking kid in a fridge, then you've already lost. Its the single worst fucking quest in IV, hands down.

>>716214821
And yet it has more than 2 choices

>>716212817
>>716212894
>>716213881
Where are these from? I don't remember seeing them before.

>>716212817
Its like there was a plan for a real game but they settled for just a lot of cardboard props disguising the same generic encounters over and over.

>>716214890
And they all suck because the entire quest sucks and shouldn't exist, IV would be improved by its absence.

>>716214812
>ruleset is the keyword. You can have realtme combat with an underlying turnbased ruleset
so turnbased in other words, gotcha

>>716215057
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Vault_120

So it wasnt included with the fallout 4 OG release, got cleaned up before we got the geck, but when fallout 76 launched the cell was included which is why there are those maps

Bit of a leak cause of fallout 76. Todd confirmed it was cut content from fallout 4 with a vault inspired by BioShock

>>716215515
>The Fallout Experience
05:57

Overview
General
Gameplay
Technical
Layout
Part of
The Commonwealth, Atlantic Ocean
For the Vault in Fallout Shelter, see Fallout Shelter locations.

Fallout 4 cut content The following is based on Fallout 4 cut content.
Vault 120 is a cut Vault-Tec Vault located off the Atlantic coast of Massachusetts, underwater in the Commonwealth. It would have been involved in the cut quest 20 Leagues Under the Sea. The adventure there would involve a sentient giant squid contained inside the Vault, and the Vault itself would be inspired by BioShock. The giant squid would have been the vault's overseer.[N

>>716199136 (OP)
I hate the settlement building so much it's unreal. The fact that metrics showed Todd how much people are willing to piss away on a shanty town version of Meinkraft means that it will become a mainstay in future games. Provided anyone makes it to the late 2040s to see the whole thing unfold.

>kill rat
>pull LEGENDARY BADASS minigun that shoots mini nukes out of its ass
>initiate dialogue
>Yes, No (but yes), Yes (sarcastic), more information
It's reskinned Borderlands with J"RPG" "choices".

>>716199136 (OP)
The first two Fallouts were considered the finest RPGs ever made.
They also sold so poorly Bethesda was able to buy the IP from the bargain bin.

I hope that clarifies the move away from RPGs and towards ARPGs.
Inb4 revisionist history narrative mark 1 is attempted. Fallout was huge in its day.

RPGfans are a tiny niche of the video game industry. That is why everyone moved to ARPGs.

I once asked a fallout fan to define RPG and they couldn't do it

>>716215617
I loved settlement building.....
Now here's the but
But it was done perfectly by the real time settlement mods in fallout 3 and NV, and was one of those things that didn't need Bethesda to implement, because it didn't need any voice acting, didn't need to be related to the lore at all, and literally is just players headcanon both in fo4 And in 3 and NV.

They could've still added all the places that obviously designed around players settling with the flat open drive in btw for people to use the mod in anyways. Without making it a key part of the story or wasting time making it gameplay mechanics.

Just poor.
But I think it was also a business decision driven by the fact player settlements was supposed to be a much bigger deal in Starfield specifically and it was kind of a testing thing in fo4.

Then they fucked they anyways

>>716214821
The point in contention was Fallout 4s lack of options how to complete quests.
The kid in a fridge example showed that whatever YouTuber anon got his opinion about Fallout 4 from had no idea what he was talking about.

>>716214812
> You can have real time combat with turn-based rules etc
They tried that with Morrowind. It was so bad they scrapped it and started over.

>>716210341
yes, however, here is Yes Man's dialogue tree

>>716214704
>Invest 25 skill points into lockpicking
>Take Locksmith perk
I also prefer NV system but I honestly don't see how Fallout 4 Is significantly different from NV

>>716212816
too bad no amount of systems or lack there of can fix bland, sterile and downright awful writing. stylistic art design has also been always mediocre at best (f3), downright awful jetsons-getting-nooked tier at worst (f4). as pic related is what you would expect a first person view fallout to look like

>>716210341
weird no one ever made a flowchart for diamond city blues

its deeper than any nv quest, actually impressive and sad most of the game isnt like it

>>716216786

>>716215624
I don't know what is more sad. That devs have regressed into making "RPG" mean just slapping arbitrary numbers in their menus. Or brainlets who can't comprehend character stat sheets and think
>I point gun with mouse
>I should beat enemy
Is valid game design when their character is only specced in some general guns skill with an allocation of 14/100. And would cry if their character fails most of their attack inputs.

>>716215784
why do you lie? interplays implosion has nothing to do with fallout sales that were, in fact, good for the time

is this some sort of beth fanboy cope now that fallout got "saved" by being turned into a marketable parody of itself?

The real issue with fallout 4 isnt even the 4 dialogue choice options, it's that the NPC will respond the same way to all of them
>Serious
>Kind
>Jew
>Anarchist
All 4 personality types loop into the NPC saying the same thing
Where as in fallout 3 and 4 you had more dialogue choices and those choices had choices.

I mean it is an RPG or at least an ARPG. Whether or not it is a good RPG is a whole different story. Main issue for me is that the quests in that game don't interest me at all and bethesda should fuck off with the ''family member missing find him'' trope if they ever make a new fallout

Part of it comes from Todd's ass backwards and warped pervsersion or obsession with pretending the BoS have ever been the good guys in the context of the player's encounters with them starting from Fallout.

>Fallout 3
>Choice
lol
lmao

>>716216876
Wow I thought some anon would make an attempt at revisionist history and what do you know.

Even for the 90s niche RPG market Fallout was not a huge title. The proof it could not sustain itself is it did not sustain itself.

>have fallout 4 on Steam for more than 6 years now
>never played
I don't think I ever will, honestly.

>>716216116
I used that mod in Fallout 3 for setting up bases in the metro but that was freeform and additive to the whole experience. The basegame itself had no issues with finding a place to settle normally outside of the main settlements because there was a handful of potential safehouses dotted across the map that weren't subject to the respawning loot tables. My problem with Bethesda's version was it being relegated to set portions of the map, it took away potential locations and vendors that you could visit normally and for the most part you couldn't build them in interior cells out of the weather. If you know that a particularly autistic player is going to run your settlement minigame out to its absolute maximum you have no real incentive to make actual locations worthy of visiting when the vast majority simply won't get that far in the first place.

>>716199136 (OP)
Because they only streamline there main product line every one of there games gets less content.

Because general audiences have no taste.
Look at whats on in your cinema, or whats the highest streamed songs of the year.
The biggest slice of the pie is always gonna be slop. Thats why media sucks. Its no longer about artists making cool stuff, its just a slop factory.To make the big bucks you gotta water down the game so a monkey can play it.
Yes, Baldurs Gate 3 exists and did well, but thats an outlier of the equation. If you take that away there's hardly any single player games that came out recently that have complexity.

And not only are they easier to sell to morons, they are also easier to make if you get rid of the complex. Think about how much work both coming up with the idea of multiple branching paths for one single quest, writing/recording the dialogue, and actually scripting and bug testing it is compared to "yes/sarcastic yes/don't progress" is.
Bethesda will never change. They want the big money. Maybe their next game will have slightly more quests that have 2 different outcomes. But they're never gonna be doing what New Vegas did. It's way easier to just accept they only wanna make money and not buy it unless you wanna eat the slop.

>>716216818
trish giving you either the direct password or a puzzle to solve is so cool and I really wish it had more stuff like that
it also doesn't mention there's an entire following event that changes based on what you did but one of the guys

daughter can show up a week later and start investigating her dad's disappearence, which also has multiple different outcomes and branches, and you might never even see her

>>716199136 (OP)
It is an RPG though

>>716217919
> You not liking things I do makes you less of a person.
I hope your self esteem improves as you get older kiddo. Basing your self worth off the efforts of others is a losing proposition.

>>716217990
It isn't what I consider an RPG though. As you know I am so important it is the only opinion that matters.

>>716218029
Learn to read you chimp.

>>716216969
here I drew it, this is what everybody who is bitching about the issues in Fallout 4's dialogue/RPG choices and Fallout 3 really means.

In fucking fallout 4 all your choices, A, B, C, D all lead back into the same response from the NPC.

In fallout NV and 3, you had branching trees, and the NPC responded differently based off what branch you picked instead of giving you the same fucking response

>>716218312
>>716216969
Forgot the image

>>716218250
So you freely admit you are no better or worse than people who like things you don't?
It seems you are openly insulting of them. As long as you realize being a fan of something is a result of the something and has nothing to do with you at all we are good.

>>716216772
>image
holy sovl batman

>>716218469
You can clearly feel the heart put into that project. The passion just bursts out. You cam tell it was a labor of love by the team. So much heart, passion, soul, and love I can barely stand it.
Bethesda should take note of this relatively obscure project and become more like them.

>>716218463
You clearly have some kind of inferiority complex. Why are you so offended that I think a game that has been hugely simplified to the point it no longer is an RPG is a game for simpletons and baboons?

Big Todd- "Lets simplify our games so anyone can play it and it has larger appeal"
Me- "it was purposefully simplified and as such is shit"
You- "OMG YOU CAN'T SAY THAT, IT HURTS MY FEELINGS"

>>716218825
So you can't admit that your taste in games has no bearing on your self esteem?
It is obvious you couldn't. Do not be a parasite and cling to the work of others as a substitute for actual accomplishments.

You are like the sad baseball fan that cheers when " We won the World Series". Don't be that guy. Well try to stop being that guy.

>>716219108
What are you even talking about bro? I don't like FO4 because it is grossly simplified. Where are you getting all this morality bullshit from?

I think you're just getting upset that I called somethings you like slop and are strawmanning all this BS about accomplishments because you don't have a good argument.

Its fine to like slop. There's so much slop out there. Im happy for you anon. I hope you are enjoying Avowed.

>>716217156
You should play it at least once, even for a few hours, just to say you have.

>>716219282
Still can't just say I am no better or worse than anybody else for liking different things?
Why? You should be able to type it out even if it is a lie. You can't seem to do it.

Instead of simply admitting the obvious you keep trying to justify using the work of others to assume some sort of moral or personal superiority.

That is like claiming liking vanilla ice cream makes me better that those pathetic losers who like chocolate.

Sad really.

>>716219295
Fair enough. Currently doing some shenanigans in Death Stranding 1, possibly after

>>716200712
Fallout 4 is not a role-playing game for the simple fact that your character's skill is not the major determinant of success in most situations. Character skills help, but they are not the determining factor. You can also level your character until they acquire every perk in the game, meaning that specialization, or 'role', is negated and unimportant. You don't truly miss out on important, significant aspects of the game because of your character's role - for example, the game assumes that you will have both hack and lockpick as skills. Playing a different role should change how you approach the game significantly, and should provide different avenues of success. Choosing the equivalent of a blue, red, or green ending with the various factions is not the result of role, but of poor writing.

Keep in mind, role-playing refers to playing a character with a specialized capacity, not 'I make choices in the story'. The term has been diluted into being meaningless, because people think it means "I MAKE CHOICES IN A STORY". No.

>>716219539
Can someone get this chimp a banana? What is he talking about?

>>716219606
Keep in mind your definition of RPG refers to table top rpgs. Devs haven't held that mindset since the 90s. Once the tech improved enough they abandoned that mindset.

>>716216772
>full game soon

>>716206924
>using the quest that shows bethesda can't even keep its own fucking lore straight as some sort of 'gotcha'

That's not a win, it just shows how holistically awful the game is in terms of anything but SHOOT n LOOT. And the only reason the shooting is decent is because ZeniMax made iD design it - bethesda didn't touch that part.

>>716219682
It is OK to have low self esteem. You will likely grow out of it by the time you graduate high school.
Get out of the habit of using the work of others as a crutch.
Good luck kiddo. It gets better.

>>716219740
The mindset changed because devs realized that RPG mechanics are an easy way to milk dopamine. Diablo and WoW started the numbers go up addiction

>>716219983
Bro you are literally lecturing and asking me to give you permission to like stuff that you like because I don't like it. And you think I have low self esteem?

Have a banana and stop crying that other people don't have the same taste as you.

>>716219863
The point was Fallout 4 had no quests with options.
It clearly does.

You moving the goal posts is the clearest sign of surrender.

>>716199136 (OP)
But it is an RPG ... and a quite awesome one too. Then again, there's like a dozen different types, so maybe you just don't like the type.

My favourite part of the game is that you can shoot stuff OR you can hit stuff with a baseball bat. So much choice!!

>>716220105
Why would I want your, or anyone's, validation?
You told on yourself a little with that one. Validation from strangers is no substitute for self esteem.

i got the most hours in fallout 4 but i agree its childish and simplified so more people want to play it. but at what cost man... the sovl... now theres kf3 looking completely soulless. my hobby man... where is it going...

>>716220334
>>716219539
>Still can't just say I am no better or worse than anybody else for liking different things?
Literally. You said it. You want me to say "Yes I think this game its shit, but its okay that other people enjoy it."
I feel like calling you a chimp is a compliment at this point. I'm pretty sure a chimp can chose what banana it likes without asking permission.

>>716219592
If you do play it, follow the basic parts of this mod guide: https://themidnightride.moddinglinked.com/
Just for stability. There are no vanilla gameplay alterations in the basic section.

>>716221240
Thank you very much, anon.

>>716220441
You getting madder and madder about this is telling.
I will show you how easy it is.
My liking a thing does not make me better or worse than anyone else. It simply means I like a thing.

Your turn. Even if you don't believe it you can type it. Unless it would wreck your self esteem to even say anything to that effect that is.

Imagine being so parasitic you need others accomplishments to give yourself a sense of value.

>>716221550
To add
Next thing you know you will be modding games so you can feel you are an active participant in others success.

>>716221550
Okay chimp. Here goes:
General audiences lack critical skills that make them like slop like Taylor Swift the Avengers and FO4.
Chimps like you shouldn't feel invalidated that people who do not lack critical thought do not like slop. However, thats not because your tastes are still valid, its because you shouldn't care what other people think.
If you still feel hurt that someone disagrees with your opinion/taste maybe seek professional help rather than crying and trying (yet failing) to turn it into a morality argument.

>>716220441
This is about your lack of self esteem shining through.
Nobody needs anybody permission to like anything. Don't even know where this is coming from.

What effect do you suppose your forbidding me to like a thing would have? Likely the same effect as me forbidding you to like a thing.

>>716199136 (OP)
They were so excited that after 20 fucking years of making first person games they finally figured out how to make a competent shooter they forgot the RPG bit

>>716222108
You wanting me to validate your tastes, even though I don't share your opinion, is you asking for my permission.
Don't turn this around on me as stupid. I know its stupid. If you agree its stupid, stop asking for my permission to drink slop.

>>716222034
Still can't type it out. Admitting to yourself is the hardest step.
I wonder why you get so angry about people liking things you don't. I don't like fishing. I don't hunt people down who do and insult them.
Then again I do not suffer from low self esteem.

>>716222386
I like fishing. But I'm not gonna ask you to validate my tastes because I'm not a insecure feral dog.
See how that works monkey?

>>716222383
Where did you get the idea I need anyone's validation?
I think that is a bit of projection on your part.
I am sure you will be able to quote the post in short order to clarify.

When you can't find it I would go with "I am not your bitch, find it yourself" to deflect from your failure.
I am now beginning to understand your need to use others accomplishments as a substitute for your self esteem.

>>716222518
Now apply that logic to video games.

>>716222653
If you don't need my validation why are you explicity asking me to write

>>716218463
>So you freely admit you are no better or worse than people who like things you don't?

Much like your lack of critical thought in media, it seems you lack basic skills in understanding your own ideas and conversations.

Maybe go back to lurking. I bet this panned out a lot cooler in your head, right Chimp?

>>716222726
>Now apply that logic to video games.
Bro..... That was the whole point O.o
I have never fished. It was an example of why you are chimpbrained.

>>716199136 (OP)
bethesda its brainrotted into dumbing down rpg to get more sales

>>716223043
You still haven't be able to write in regards to yourself.
It has been an hour and you are still trying to justify liking something as a replacement for self esteem.
Why would you argue a point for an hour if it didn't ring true?
If you didn't suffer from low self esteem you would have just moved on. You didn't.

>>716223121
Logic not your strongsuit I see.
Are you female by any chance? They often struggle trying to use logic and resort to emotion as well.
It would also examine the low self esteem issue as well.

>>716223374
Stop changing the subject. You need a strangers validation to like something. I think that's sad.
Meanwhile I hate on your favourite slop and don't care what a your little chimp brain manges to type out in response. I guess you could say my way of doing things work out a lot better for me. But not so much for you.

>>716223513
I'm intrigued. Explain how me liking fishing and not needing your validation to do so, despite you not liking fishing, is the same as you needing other people's validation to like FO4.

>>716223660
You have yet to quote the post you think I asked for validation.
Until you do I can't defend points I haven't made.

Your options when you fail to find said posts are throwing out insults to cover the fact you failed or move on knowing you lost.

We both know it will be the first one. Impotent rage is your wheelhouse.

Its just as much of an RPG as Fallout 3, which it isnt. Open world shooter with stale RPG mechanics at best

>>716223772
I don't need others validation to like or dislike things.
I do not suffer from low self esteem.

>>716223860
Yeah because your little monkey brain can't remember something I already highlighted for you twice.
That's why you're a slop drinker I guess.

>all this arguing
Shut the fuck up and post your settlements

>>716224057
I see my predictive abilities are still sharp.
Impotent rage suits you.
Common side effect of low self esteem.

>>716223952
>I don't need others validation to like or dislike things.
So then stop asking ME to write that your opinions are valid you dirty chimp.

>>716223873
At least skills sort of mattered in Fallout 3, like Morrowind you can't aim or do worth a damn without enough points into a skill, and even with points you still can't aim or do worth a damn.

>low self esteem
>7 matches

>>716224281
>>low self esteem
>>7 matches
Don't be too harsh on the chimp. He's a slop drinker after all.

>>716224219
Good thing I haven't If I did you would be rubbing my nose in it.
Failure once again.
I understand the low self esteem more and more. Your tiny lady brain is not suited for this milieu*.

* it means setting or environment.

>>716204613
Yes, those are dialogue choices

>>716224408
Filthy slop eaters. Glad we are so much better than them at liking video games.

>>716224897
Chimpanon - I'm sure there's a slot at a psychologist's schedule to help you overcome your inferiority complex.

>>716224562
Bad ones that disappointed most people but what can be expected from bethesda they can't write at the best of times.

>>716208474
>still seen as the best 3d fallout
Only by troons

>>716225002
Why brother do you attack me?
We share the same superiority over these filthy plebs enjoying things wrong.
There is no need for brother on brother crime.
Let us bask in our superiority over the slop eaters.
Let them know the shame of liking wrong things.

>>716217084
More choice than Troonout Neo Vagina

>>716204613
Don't forget
>"Tell me more" (but also yes)

>>716225283
"Woe is me. I have tastes that strangers criticised. If people make arguments about how something I liked is actually bad, that must mean that I am bad too!! Oh god. How could this ever happen to me?
I know I'll spend an hour asking the critics to explicitly say that he is not better than me. That will make me feel better. And if he can't do it I will waffle on about him having low self esteem. That will show him"
-Chimpanon 2025

>>716225643
To be fair it is now close to two hours and you still haven't said you don't tie your self esteem to your taste in video games.

Just sayin.

>>716225531
Facts: the image

>chimpanon
>low self esteem
>now the gypsy has shown up to complete the trifecta
Lol
Lmao even

>>716205352
>ll worthwhile mods go to NV and TTW
Wrong all the best mods are for Chadout 3 all Troon Tranny Wank has are woke propaganda mods by the likes of Kyle Marshiku

>>716225643
Show me where I complained about you criticizing something I liked.
I have not even mentioned a game I like at any point. The closest you can find is my fishing analogy.

I can't and won't defend points I haven't made.

>>716200885
Fallout 4 choices:
yes
yes but nicer
yes but snarky
no (leave's dialogue until you say one of the yes's)

Any other MA anons who are eternally disappointed about this? I still remember going to Concord expecting to see the town square and maybe a run-down Ruby Tuesday's and just nothing.

>>716226140
>>716202440
>>716210624
>>716216818

>>716226256
>things aren't the same in a fictional universe
woah

>>716199136 (OP)
They probably started development around 2012, when CRPGs were basically not a thing in the mainstream sense.
The higher-ups probably panicked, thought that RPGs were a dying genre, and decided to copy Mass Effect, and double down on the 'action' side of their action RPGs.

From a financial stand point, it wasn't a bad decision.
Making it less of an RPG might have made it more accessible to the average gamer, or even non-gamer.
Fallout 4 did make more money than any of the other Fallout games.

Long term though, it probably did way more damage by associating the IP with being sell-out garbage or not artistically compelling.
If Fallout 4 was more like Fallout 3, which mostly straddled that line successfully, the brand would likely be in a better place.

Been playing Fallout 1 finally and it's surprising how little direction it gives you. I got the water chip and now I'm left to kinda fuck around.
I do however feel like I'm underpowered. The super mutants all one shot me at Necropolis and I still can't take on the entire Khan camp without losing a companion.
I'm mostly still using the shotgun I got in Junktown and the SMG at this point. Should I have better guns by now?

Because Bethesda only ever made open world looters, never an actual RPG.

>>716199136 (OP)
It's entirely based on how the UI is presented. I remember back in 2015 when everyone unironically insisted TW3 was a deeper RPG than FO4. How does a game with a set character, no builds, and like 3 skill checks in the entire game get praised for being a deep(er) RPG? Simple, players examined the UI and saw that it seemed really complex with paper dolls, tabs for different systems, and numbers everywhere and just assumed that meant the gameplay complexity would be proportional. They locked onto this initial impression and never updated their priors despite actually playing the game and experiencing that it's a rote stat treadmill without many options.

This is why I never take RPG debates over complexity seriously. It is beyond obvious that the genre discourse is primarily propagated by pseuds who care more about the illusion of complexity than what the gameplay actually supports. If you want real complexity in the gameplay, just play a strategy game or a management sim. If you want to be hassled by tedious UI, play one of these so-called "hardcore" RPGs.

>>716227634
Fallout 1 is dumb and unfinished, same with Fallout 2
The second half of the main quest is literally random shit, in Fallout 2 you literally find out what to do next because of visions and in Fallout 1 you have to find a random side quest which is actually the main quest
Weapons in Fallout 1 is just as unfinished, just go straight to Gun Runners and buy the best guns in the game, it's that simple and stupid
They're still great games but insanely overrated, I don't understand how people almost worship them as something great

>>716228228
I agree. I would love to see some kind of event where multiple streamers have to complete FO1 on the condition that it is a blind play through and they cannot look up guides or listen to chat. I guarantee 99% of the participants would not complete the game.
Back then

>>716228228
Early RPGs are notorious for biting off more than they can chew and having loads of gameplay problems because of it. It's frustrating how much genre nostalgia is rooted in first draft sloppiness that not even the devs themselves would defend.

>>716199136 (OP)
Honestly Fallout 4s most defining flaw might just be its dialog system being limited to exactly 4 options.

>>716229230
And that its not an RPG.

>>716229283
unironically what the fuck even defines an rpg as an rpg

>>716229230
If FO4 released today it'd be much better received. It was specifically that FO4 released at the peak of the casualization backlash that caused gamers to lose their shit over shit like the dialogue system.

Play any other RPG and see that they rarely ever utilize more than 4 dialogue choices. Moreover if you really want to squeeze in more options, you can simply nest those options under an "ask something else" options that bring sup another prompt. It is purely player psychology that they FEEL the dialogue wheel is more limiting even if it barely makes a difference.

Hate that autists insist on having a billion options for everything because it means the rest of us are forced to explore 20 options of pointless flavor text on the off chance one of them actually leads to something interesting. All because autists think exhaustively clicking on everything is exciting gameplay.

>>716229946
Old timers are used to the "Tell don't show" method of storytelling from the dark age of gaming. They lack the sophistication of the new fans.

>>716229946
Because different characters would say different things in different in the same situation. Limiting the dialogue options limits role-playing options and limits what kind of character you can play to just generic hero.

>>716216786
is it? i just end up doing it the exact same way every time
>see cuck get beat up
>eat grape mentats
>convince him to let me handle it
>blow henry's head off
>take his note
>kill everyone at the meetup
>take the drugs
>sell them
>never finish the quest

>>716228228
>I don't understand how people almost worship them as something great
It's the setting and the ability to face a moral dilemma here and there, I'm fairly certain that's why those games are remembered so fondly, same as with 3D Fallout really, the fans of those games know the combat sucks balls especially compared to your CoDs and Battlefields (BF3 came out the same year as NV, for reference) but the setting alone overcomes all that, it's great to be immersed in a post-apoc world with reasonably fleshed out lore

>>716230295
Writers have known about this since forever. Plenty of RPGs throughout the 80s and early 90s strayed away from excessive dialogue options. Bethesda themselves never really bothered with branching dialogue and even their old games that seem to have huge dialogue menus are more embedding other gameplay systems into the dialogue window. Similar to how no one regards shop keepers as an elaborate dialogue menu.

Calling branching dialogue fans "old timers" is giving them too much credit. They're mostly just fans of a particular era of RPGs that emerged in the late 90s and was especially associated with Infinity Engine games.

>>716230515
And in table top, you can simply tell the DM what you want your character to say without having to interrogate which of the 17 redundant options actually does something. Moreover it robs the player of their own sense of self-expression when they merely select a predefined option the writers provide for them instead of getting to come up with their own unique response. This aspect of the table top experience has never translated well to video games. Stop forcing it.

>>716216527
>merging skills and perks is just a bad idea for fallout, skills are your boring obligatory number go up boost, perks should be a fun treat on the side.
>having no granular control for skills is annoying if you ever need more than one thing boosted after a level, or just want to juice your main combat skill instantly so you can get to the parts of the build you actually consider for fun
>pure speculation on my part but this might be part of why skill checks are gone from the rest of the game, they probably wanted to phase out people leaving and coming back to encounters in general, but having to level up whenever you want a single skill leveled up probably exacerbated this issue

>>716208474
If your intention is to ridicule F3's writing your pic is an unfair comparison, because the Meresti dude and Mr House are two fundamentally different characters, a more appropriate comparison would have been to compare Robert with, I don't know, some other average wastelander from the Mojave (maybe that fiend chick who talks to you when you enter Vault 3, she's guarding a location too), and compare Mr House with President Eden, seeing how they're both characters occupying a position of great power and of intellect above that of the average person

>>716199136 (OP)
I'll give you a hint.

>>716217084
In the main quest? No.
In side quests? Of course.

>>716232087
wow, i had no idea F2 sold that poorly

>>716199136 (OP)
They know their audience of mouthbreathers, and they knew they couldn't top new vegas' writing, so they went to the action game route.

Someone post the yucky stat triangle, aka the ultimate evolution of rpg design.

>>716229946
It's not just that it can't have more than 4 options but also that it can't have less than 4 either making a lot of dialog redundant and contributing to the lack of choice people feel they have in the game, and as such cause it to be even more disliked than just giving the player a list of options with arbitrary lenght like every game before it.

>>716232204
>shit copy&paste cash-grab sequel pumped out in a year sold poorly
Daily reminder Fallout 2 is fucking shit, and anyone who says otherwise has literally not played it. Vanilla Fallout 2 is literally unplayable and unfinished.

>>716232231
>couldn't top new vegas' writing,
Kek

>>716232447

>>716231517
Not true a player often has different dialogue options based on what class, race or sex their playing for example a Paladin would say different things to a Mage in the same situation.
It makes the character the player makes actually mean something other than just being cosmetic and many of those dialogue options do have real consequences for example evil options have some delightfully sadistic results.

>>716232678
Cope Troonout Neo Vagina is antifa propaganda for troons

Reminder that you’re not the target audience anymore. Reminder that Bethesdafags are low test beta males watching this and saying “Hell yeah”

>>716232447
Good morning, Sir!

>>716232987
Speak English, street-shitter.

>>716233635
The target audience for the Fallout games is already very obvious

fine fallout 3 chads, you have groomed me. what mods do i download for max chad racism experience of FO3

>>716223304
well and the market rewards them consistently for it. Unlike something like Troika that ate shit after shit and even if they were getting it and coming down to a winning formula, like vampire the masquerade: bloodlines, due to circumstances out of their control it bombed so hard it killed them off for good

>>716200220
Care to explain why?

>>716216818
>wait
>go to taphouse (with/without paul)
>kill the drug dealers
>go to four leaf lab

>>716235996
>AAAAAAHHHHH EXPLAIN WHY EXPLAIN WHY RIGHT NOW REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>716199136 (OP)

What's your favorite weapon in NV?

>>716234754
Here's some good ones
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/3402/
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/5630
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/5370
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/10720

>>716238756
The uninstall button

>>716238756
Those are some long as fuck arms.

>>716238756
Mercy

>>716238756
>shotgun
>drum
>still has underbarrel shell storage

>>716238756
Survivalist rifle

>>716238756
Riot gun. I just keep a save file where I'm walking into the tops casino with a Riot gun, ready to fuck every one up in there.

>>716242346
Yeah, what were they thinking? I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder.

>>716200712
>multiple endings
>Unlike previous games, the Fallout 4 ending cutscene does not change based on how the Sole Survivor has finished most quests or interacted with other people. Only the choice of completing Nuclear Family or The Nuclear Option has any effect on the ending.

>>716214704
A complex leveling system does not make an RPG an RPG, otherwise about half of the TTRPG market wouldn't be RPGs.
Try again.
>>716214407
Baldur's gate 1&2, Kotor, and ofhers will gladly inform you that being Turn-based is not the requirement for an RPG whatsoever.
Try again

>>716246079
>Baldur's gate 1&2, Kotor
Have turn based rulesets

>install FROST and a few submods
Yep, the way it was meant to be played

>>716246274
But are not turn based.

>>716238756
the holorifle

>>716246713
I never said they had to be

>>716238756
Medicine Stick for most playthroughs. Its basically the best DMR in the game.

>>716248385
That's if I go cowboy run. Sometimes I'll grab the mod that rebalances That Gun to be a mid-late game peestol just so I can fuck around with Medicine Stick and it as my final loadout in those runs.

If I go grunt instead for flavor, I usually stick with This Machine and the .45. Sometimes mod This Machine to have a bit more bite late game but more often I just get something to cover for its lack of stopping power against high armor like an energy weapon.

>>716248849
>Sometimes I'll grab the mod that rebalances That Gun to be a mid-late game peestol
Link?
I'm honestly curious what it changes because in my opinion it already is a mid-to-late game pistol. Basically a sidegrade to Lucky.

>>716249269
"A Better That Gun" - Shifts it from a crit focused 9mm analog to more of a magnum.

>>716238756
Lucky my beloved

>>716213145

>>716249797
.>Damage: 18 -> 36 (same as .44 Magnum)
>Critical damage: 18 -> 36 (same as .44 Magnum)
>Spread: 0.5 -> 0.3 (same as Lucky .357)
>Durability raised from 225 to 300
>Value raised from 1750 to 3000
>Critical chance: 2.5X (unchanged)
>Requires 5 strength and 50 guns
Uhhhhhh, That Gun has base damage of 30 in vanilla. I'm not sure I'd want to use a balance mod by someone who can't even get something like that right.

>>716252476
Wtf, that makes it the best pistol in the game, available in the first 20% of the game.

>zoomers defending perks

>>716199136 (OP)
It takes effort to make a good RPG. Why bother when there's legions of glue-eaters out there that'll take it up the ass and defend it.

>>716225531
>See chud. I made an image where I'am the chad and you the cringe basedboy.
>Uncle gets into room
>Rape scene

>>716228228
>Main quests is about searching for shit
>you have to look and ask around for said shit
>that's le poor design
You zoomers are something else.

>>716253091
The best RPGs are awful video games. Proper RPGs should stay on the table top where they belong.

America rising 2 fixes fallout 4 main story imo

>>716253714
lol shut the fuck up retard

>>716253714
braindead take

>>716254189
Archaic rulesets for archaic platforms I say. Stay in your lane bro.

>>716254314
lol shut the fuck up retard

>>716254314
I hate dnd becoming popular and spawning retards like you

>>716254454
word

>>716254428
I'll do no such thing. If my pointing out how anachronistic table top rulesets are bothers you just ignore me.
It isn't like you are going to be dumb enough to make the case they belong outside the dark age of gaming.

>>716254581
lol shut the fuck up retard

>>716254581
lol shut the fuck up retard

>>716253368
Soiboys and Troon Vegays go together like pudding and pi

>>716254831
Did you come up with the ancient RPG rulesets? Why are you defending such an inferior system?
The one good thing from table top that would be phenomenal to use ,but impossible to do, is the agency having a DM gives you. The worst thing to take from it was the rulesets.
Sadly they needed the rulesets due to tech limitations and forgot about the DM.
Maybe with AI they can bring something useful from table top rugs into today's games.

Never saw literally exact samefagging before.
Did you forget which response was supposed to go with which device?

>really liked the fallout 4 settlement system
>tfw it never got the love and feature upgrades to make it shine

sucks cause it would have been cool to have something like an ironworks settlement that produces scrap metal and a fishing settlement that makes fish. Best you can get is a water producer or a farm/scrap producer.

>>716252476
Pretty sure those are the values for the base .223 pistol

>>716255778
No, they're not.

>>716255837
Wild. I wonder where he got the numbers? In game with 50 guns?

>>716238756
Pretty much ANY ballistic weapon, and plasma defender.
>first time i played
Mk2 combat armor and light machinegun. It was so enjoyable.
>second playthrough
Sniper rifle, silenced 10mm pistol, silenced 12.7mm SMG. So good.
>third and beyond
Any combination of guns + melee/unarmed weapons.
>last playthrough
Hunting shotgun, Colt 1911, silenced Browning pistol.

NV has so many enjoyable weapons, and such a selection in each category.

"Have you seen what an anti-material rifle can do to a deathclaw?"
Yup. And it is GLORIOUS.

>>716255837
Anyway here's a direct comparison modded and unmodded under the same perks and weapon conditions. It performs like a lighter weight, slightly slower service rifle, or magnum for comparison. I don't run crit builds so I imagine that's what
>>716252735
would give this guy the impression it can be the best pistol in the game.

In terms of actual performance, its drawbacks are still pretty numerous compared to actual heavy hitters in late game.

>>716199136 (OP)

>>716200712
So basically if any action game gives you some perk points, it's now an RPG.

>>716255742
Just play FO76. It's mostly an improved version of FO4 with better camp building too.

>>716238756
Just feels right to me. Very practical too for the setting. I even prefer the basic version over the flashier unique variant, just for RP reasons.

>>716200712
>defined character
I love this argument. Yes, every Fallout protagonist has a pre-written backstory. The problem is you get no choice in Nate's personality during the game

>>716200712
>Imo Fallout 4 is a much more RPG than Fallout 3, Lone Survivor is a much less defined character than Lone Wanderer despite having a voice
Not true.

>>716255091
The bad "hello sarr" tier English in the pro FO3 images have to be bait, right?

>>716199136 (OP)
Because Bethesda's business model at the time was to release half-finished games with generic plots, let modders turn it into a good game, and make money charging you for the mods.Now it's endlessly re-releasing their old games and making shitty online versions

>>716200885
Just shut your fucking mouth you retarded fucking zoomer. You're fucking mindless and embarrassing.

>>716212363
And what's your favorite game series?

>>716200885
There are exactly 0 ways to roleplay in Fallout 4. You are either concerned dad or slightly sarcastic for no reason concerned dad.

>>716202035
>saves your dlc
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23895
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/30509

>>716199136 (OP)
None of the games past 2 are RPGs. They are first person shooters with RPG elements but that's like calling Metroid Prime an FPS.

>>716219776
>2027
You bet your ass Todd will go out of his way to stop that game from seeing the light of day.

>>716232396
I played vanilla 2 last year and enjoyed it vastly more than 3 or 4. In my books it's the second best Fallout after 1. I'll probably replay it down the line, it's the only RPG where I can make a retarded pornstar with a luck build.

>>716264880
Steam version isn't vanilla btw

Since this is fallout thread how the fluffy does one do Benevolent Leader achievement? Tried everything

>>716264939
You'll be glad to know it's not the Steam version.

>>716264959
Really it becomes statistically impossible for larger settlements, you need to make a settlement of a few fucks and cater to their every need in excess.

>>716265076
Tried that swamp area too thought it would be easiest also thought that box trick would work based off what I was resding but unfortunately it seems I am not the only one >-@; would actually be my 1st fallout platninum too.

>>716265237
I did it with like a settlement of only 2 people, forgot how it worked but yeah it's basically impossible with more.

>>716265379
It's been a long time since i did that, but this does ring some bells. I might have had only 1 doctor settler, maybe second one, dunno lol

>>716265379
Ill try again thanks fren was told the dlc "fixes" it but considering its bethesda I kinda believe it. I had finished FO 1-2 growing up, almost 100% NV but my favorite was Brotherhood of Steel on ps2. Legit couldn't get into 3 at all

>>716265642
>legit couldn't get into 3 at all
Imagine missing out on the height of the series

>>716265642
Just remember, you need to excessively meet their water/food needs and also excessively protect the place and give them something to do so they aren't bored.

>>716210113
>three choices in one joke quest made by an intern
The fact that New Vegas fans need to compare their most complex quests to the most simple fallout 4 quests shows how pathetic New Vegas actually is

>>716199136 (OP)
10 years later replaying the game i still hate that main quest line and dialogue wheel
the writing is just insufferably bad, but i still had fun running around the world tho

>>716270174
The only thing I enjoyed about FO4 is the running around and shooting part and I think FO76 does that better.

>>716270027

>>716216818
This doesn't even cover half of the quest. This quest actually has the most different paths and outcomes of any fallout side quest, one more than even "beyond the meat" which was the record holder until fo4.

>>716270027
>>716270631
samefag

I still remember how much this quest mindbroke the average redditor scumbag.
>NOOOOO I HELPED THE OUTSIDERS, I HELPED OPEN THE BORDERS, WHY BAD THING HAPPEN AFTER THAT???? NOOOOOO!!!!
As if there was anything nefarious about this quest. Go talk to the ghoul for 10 seconds and you'll realize he's trash. He SHOULD be left out, not even because he's a ghoul, but because he has a scumbag persona. But redditors are like a bunch of stupid trained mice.
>I OPEN LE BORDER NOW WHERE MY CHEESE???

I really hope they don't alter this quest in the remaster they are currently making. This quest is more important now than ever before.

>>716242346
what? the riot shotgun doesn't have shell storage, that's the pump

>>716270174
Play fallout 4
>Shit story
>Simplistic RPG elements
>Great exploration

Play New Vegas
>Shit story
>Simplistic RPG elements
>Shit exploration

The clear winner is fo4 for me. I wish I was dumb enough to enjoy New Vegas but both games are dumbed down RPGs for console retards. At least fo4 holds up as a survival game as well.

>>716271274
Yes, Chadout 3 makes redditors, antifa fags and troons seethe with rage.

>>716238756
>Vanilla
LMG
>Modded
.50 Cal HMG form the Classic Weapons Pack

>>716238756
I know it's shit but I'm having lotsa fun with ratslayer on my current run. just PFFT everything in sight.

>>716271624
BoS was doomed from 1 though. NCR was always going to gain and outpace em.

>>716263379
>Muh zoomer
Honestly Fallout 1 and 2 are pretty bad. Even for games of their time they are very linear and just plain boring, not to mention how junk they are
During the first playthrough the game basically finished itself, they just give you two powerful paladins that easily kill the final boss without your help, and at the same time the other half of the final quest is also completed without a single shot without any effort. It's like the developers realised that no one will tolerate the shit that they made and just wanted to finish quickly and this despite the fact that the game is like only 6 hours long, which is very short.
NV is definitely better and I even enjoyed Fallout 4 a lot more, Fallout 3 still sucks

>>716238756
scoped Trail Carbine with hand loaded ammo

should i just get fallout 4 on my ps5 since its on sale? i do have a pc but i dont give a shit to mod it or anything

>>716199136 (OP)
its better than NV though.

>>716211861
>Fallout 4
>meet character
>do their intro quest
>they'll hang with you after
>hang with player character long enough, they like what you do
>multiple times will stop to talk and confide with you something or another on a personnel level to get to know you more
>eventually gives you their final quest at max affinity and become player sexual

>New Vegas
>meet character
>do their one (1) (singular) quest
>will now stick with you forever except if you trigger their one dislike (join opposite faction)
goalpost was actually Fallout 4 companions as a whole versus other Fallout game companions. retard.

>>716214583
---> >>716211782

>>716238756
Bumper sword. Going toe-to-toe with a super mutant wielding a concrete chunk and just chopping his ass in half feels great. Same with ghouls, the counter-chop after blocking their alpha strike just feels great. The anti-reaver weapon.
Works great until you can get a super sledge or blade of the west.