Why was he bad again?

AI faggotry

Because he went against neoliberal democracy which is doubleplus good.

I don't like the mgs storyline because characters and sides just have so many positives and angles where they look like the good guys. Full annoyance with this was with mgsv where you spend the entire game saving kids and being rewarded for pacifism but hes le bad guy I guess
>but muh morally grey is a good thing its deep lil bro
no.

>>716283823 (OP)
play the games lil zoom

>>716284320
Venom was actually the good guy, it was Big Boss who wasn't.

>>716284420
>games show him working to dismantle the deep state and shadow government along with wanting to end the the mistreatment of soldiers
So why was he bad again?

Unlike the Boss he never understood that as a soldier, a special forces soldier at that, he is an inherently disposable tool to be used and thrown away to maintain a favorable geopolitical situation for his country's ruling elite.

>>716284648
screws over the rest of the world

>>716284648
>solidus wanting to do the same.
Solidus did nothing wrong

>>716284648
did you forget about the whole wanting the world to be in eternal war?

>>716283823 (OP)
He held the world hostage with nuclear anime superweapons multiple times for the sake of stirring up war.

>>716284320
Eh, the actual evil characters in the series are unambiguously evil scenery chewing madmen. Tools like Venom or Gray Fox are morally gray because they're morally gray. The entire core of Solid's character is that he doesn't want to be some amoral tool like that. Remember Solid?
People really got confused with the Big Boss arc which is kind of understandable considering how most MGS fans have never seen the real Big Boss in action, just the dopey autist who believes in Santa Claus.
Then there's the matter of Solidus where retard midwit edgelords pretend he's a good guy because he's fighting the Patriots, out of personal spite mind you.

>>716284935
It's crazy how after getting his dick caught in a conflict against the US for the sake of expanding his PMC and maybe obtaining some nukes on the way he does a literal villain speech about doing some casual terrorism (keep in mind that they are all nuked up at this point) if they need to pay the bills and people still think he's the good guy since the story is sympathetic to him. Fuckin 5 is all about him hanging his body double and friends out to dry as a distraction while he gets the whole metal gear thing rolling so he can keep his war machine running and threaten to nuke anyone who tries to stop him since playing coy about it didn't work so well last time.

>>716284935
>the matter of Solidus
I don't understand how people can miss the fact he's a cruel, self-centered cunt.

>>716284320
>Half of MGS V just became a stupid Peter Pan story in Africa where the Lost Boys were a bunch of niggers

Bravo, Koshitma.

Huey did nothing wrong.

>>716287065
What's wrong with narcissism?

>What's wrong with narcissism?
I hope your next relationshit is with a bitch with a severe case of NPD

>>716287684
>Can't even formulate an answer
Frogposters, everybody

>>716287221
The XOF assault he enabled made a bad situation into one that would poison the world for generations

>>716283823 (OP)
>Why was he bad again?
He literally sold the world

>>716283823 (OP)
He was a nuclear war criminal and hypocrite who used soldiers the same way the government used the Boss. Plus the whole child soldiers thing.

>>716283823 (OP)
he only really turned "evil" and bad during the last segment of peace walker but never fully acted on it until after MSF got blown to shit.
his first "evil" deed was giving zero permission for the venom mindraping but by that point he was already too far gone. compared to MSF when he fostered personal and genuine connections with each and every soldier he stopped caring and saw them as meat puppets and expendable war assets. It's understandable to an extent, why would you keep caring if your PMC you treated as family get wiped out in a single night (by one of their own too).

>>716287221
Huey's main issues stem from the fact that he was a Soldier of Fortune even if he was in a support role rather than actually out shooting people rather than existing exclusively to fellate Big Boss

>>716288641
Huey didn't have anime to teach him right from wrong so he ended up a twisted amoral gremlin unlike his son

>>716287265
It's benign until it involves a murderous coup endangering millions.

>>716287963
The only way you'll learn why it's bad is through experience. But I'm sure you probably think you have a fetish for being dehumanized.

>>716284847
Well, that's just human nature

I'm STILL mad that the XOF raid on Mother Base was a fucking cutscene instead of a playable battle.

>>716283823 (OP)
He flamed the fires of wars and used child soldiers after TPP. We don't see this because we play as Venom, but we kind of see it because since PW there's the option to send soldiers to conflicts over the world since we are a PMC at those games.

>>716285834
>It's crazy how after getting his dick caught in a conflict against the US for the sake of expanding his PMC and maybe obtaining some nukes on the way he does a literal villain speech about doing some casual terrorism (keep in mind that they are all nuked up at this point) if they need to pay the bills and people still think he's the good guy since the story is sympathetic to him.
and the XOF kills most of his soldiers and destroys Motherbase

>>716289138
sir this is a Kojima game

>>716289114
less than you'd think

>I went to space and saw the Earth as it is, without borders, invisible lines put up humans to divide themselves, and I thought wouldn't it be nice if we could one day have a world where there were no more borders and petty global politics holding us back?
>Eternal war?
>Computer governments?
Okay I get that it's meant to be that their idolising of the Boss created an idealised vision of her that wasn't truly representative of who she really was and they imposed their own world views onto hers to justify themselves fulfilling her legacy in the way they wanted to interpret it.

But how the FUCK do you misinterpret a message THAT simple. Even accounting for having to make the prequel fit the established canon of MG2 and MGS2, it makes them look like mental patients instead of bitterly committed ideologues.

>>716289553
They shouldn't have given a fuck about the Boss's will. Having that be such a big plotline and motivation for BB and Zero was stupid.

>>716283823 (OP)
Nothing, it's AI propaganda smearing him despite copying his very ideas. If it weren't megalomaniacs in governments, Big Boss wouldn't have even existed. But instead they chose to pointlessly sacrifice their best (like the Boss) without ever thinking this would come back to haunt them. Then they got angry Big Boss left and soldiers all over the world chose to follow him.

>but eternal war
That was already happening with the Cold War and there were 2 world wars prior. Big Boss simply chose to embrace mankind's violent nature but he did not shun peace or discourage it. Soldiers will join someone who offers them purpose and glory, that is why Outer Heaven was so appealing to many.

>>716289553
They were retarded enough to think that she was talking about specifically soldiers and not humanity in general, and as such believed that civilians should be integrated into the war machine rather than soldiers being integrated into civilian life

>>716289708
He made orphans then kidnapped them and raised him as his soldiers. He brainwashed his own men and used them and threw them away they same way governments did the Boss.

>>716289553
people misinterpret things all the time
do you think Jesus would be pleased about the state of modern "judeochristianity?"

>>716289859
The governments were just upset that someone was doing that better than them. Big Boss did not consider himself a hero unlike certain governments. A reminder that he destroyed Metal Gears and hunted down nukes from around the world while superpowers flaunted them around like toys.

>>716289708
>Outer Heaven
Hey too bad he had next to nothing to do with that. He was too busy setting up Zanzibar Land while some medic with plastic surgery and a robot arm dealt with Outer Heaven.

>>716289708
Snake, Zero and the Patriots were part of a new order of deluded Boss fanatics who tossed out the old order BECAUSE they sacrificed the Boss for le politics. Snake had a tantrum and went off on his own specifically because they cloned him. This stupid grudge ended up letting Skullface in to wreck everything.
And the Cold War was cold, not hot.
Get your shit sorted out dumbass.

>>716289553
to be fair, the last time BB saw her was before the mercury incident which is when she had the epiphany and worldview change. BB probably didn't think she had changed as much as she did and applied the will to pre-mercury boss. He'd only have seen her a handful of times before she dies too.
Zero is more tougher to rationalise but his AI plan only went tits up because of skullface's sabotage. his interpretation of the boss' will was probably closer to the real thing and might've been something she'd sympathise with if it went smoothly and operated as originally intended.

>>716283823 (OP)
I'm the protagonist which means I'm the good guy which means everyone who opposes me is the bad guy end of story.

>>716290182
No. Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven too and Venom links up with him.

>>716290075
So the counter argument is at least he knows he's piece of shit and just as bad as the governments. That was Venom and Solid Snake doing the anti nuke/metal gear stuff anyway. Big Boss was stealing them to make Zanzibar land the strongest nation in the world and threaten nuclear war.

>>716289553
The patriots were doing what she wanted, one world government would have accomplished the letter just not the spirit. Big Boss just autistically zoned in on a few words and did what he was good at.

>>716290314
No, there's no way you get to attribute the good parts of Outer Heaven to Big Boss when it's now canon his main agenda was Zanzibar Land. That belongs to another man now. All the good will Outer Heaven might have given Big Boss before it was washed away by the total villainy of MG2 is now Venom's. He's the one there at the start, he's the one there at the end. Big Boss can no longer claim the fall of Outer Heaven as his motivation to fall deeper into darkness because he wasn't involved. He was always planning his next big thing, and that involved holding the world to ransom with nuclear weapons he was stealing.

>>716290182
Zanzibar came after Outer Heaven did it not? BB did create Outer Heaven, Venom was running diversion for the world without really realizing.

>>716290220
Imagine cloning a man without his consent, using his clone children against him all because he might some day change sides. Never mind the fact this act might destroy all trust in a person, especially after one who was forced to kill his own mentor and question his very beliefs.

Snake and Zero did not sacrifice the Boss, they were ordered to kill her or face prison/execution, not much of a choice there. The whole plan was some idiotic half-baked idea from the CIA who acted surprised when Volgin used a nuke. Skullface was entirely Zero's fault, he chose to created XOF and placed a lunatic in charge who screwed up world harder than anyone else. Zero should have learned his lesson with the FOX unit after Gene went rogue but instead chose to repeat his mistake.

>>716290470
Big Boss did not trust anyone with nukes or Metal Gears other than himself. He used his own as deterrence against world powers after his own personal experiences with them. He saw himself as a balance of power between nations and that is why he ran anti-nuke operations.

>>716290650
>it's now canon his main agenda was Zanzibar Land.
That came later. He establishes Outer Heaven. Venom joins and dies there when it goes tits up. Big Boss creates Zanzibar Land in a second attempt.

Nothing about this whitewashes Big Boss, by the way. Outer Heaven was an aggressive state which is why it had a resistance trying to undermine it. There were never "good parts" to OH any more than there were for ZL.

>>716290769
Both Snake and Zero harbored lunatics and were lunatics themselves trying to usher in their own vision of high-bodycount utopia. Neither balked at crossing moral event horizons and predictably turned into unhinged paranoid monsters.
Solid, completely by accident ended up embodying the purest manifestation of Boss' will because he was a genuinely decent person with a conscience rather than a megalomaniacal control freak glownigger like the Patriots.

>>716290986
Yeah, that's what the nuclear supervillain told himself while he trained child soldiers in preparation for his new world order of eternal war. It's good motivation to be fair, strong delusion.

Its easy to hate MGSV, but do you have the courage to hate MGS3?
It was really the final threshold before maximum retardation enveloped the series

>>716291447
Solid was not the hero everyone believed him to be. He enjoyed killing just like his father, he just didn't believe in Outer Heaven or nationalism. He went through the same pain as BB but chose to walk away instead doing something about. Both Solid and BB destroyed MGs and disarmed nukes but BB wanted to create a balance of power.

>>716291679
Both the US and USSR wanted their own NWO, they just didn't like competition. They committed the same crimes as BB but unlike BB, they actually fired nukes. If it wasn't for BB and Solid Snake, the world would have ended. There are no good guys in the world MGS. For all the crap BB gets, Zero was far worse and gets off lightly compared to anyone. All the Snakes paid for their actions, Zero just ends up in a coma, blissfully unaware at the hell he's created upon the world.

>>716283823 (OP)
A couple of reasons, some of which require some background.

One of the major tenets of the current Way Things Work is that states are the sole proprietors and beneficiaries of violence. Every single time in history a state has failed, it leaves a gap in this monopoly on violence, a gap people like Big Boss can use to challenge the status quo. This extends to the rule of law, which is predicated on the threat of violence (the original bandits and robbers before humans knew what laws were never went away, you see). Failed states, such as contemporary Afghanistan, could not be allowed to exist as areas which have no laws or the ability to enforce them cause problems for all their neighbors.

The time period he became relevant in also plays a part in this. Historically, veterans of wars usually got nothing but a thank you for risking their lives. This led to a lot of social unrest and rebellion, so states like Rome eventually figured out that letting soldiers retire with benefits was a good idea. In the US, Soldiers coming back from World War I, World War II, Korea and Vietnam did not even get a thank you, and had to fight just for what little they did get (check out the Bonus Army for example). Anyone offering to not just reward soldiers for their service but also even put them in charge would be incredibly attractive to the average soldier. Needless to say, the endless warfare this whole system would be predicated on was a raw deal for civilians.

Also the dude had nukes and wasn't shy about his plans to use them. They killed Saddam for less.

>>716292548
MGS3 was the start of the "New Patriots" narrative epoch where the existing canon had to be contorted to fit wholesome chungus big boss and his motley crew, it enabled all the other garbage and buried the hanging threads of the absurdist MGS2
The most brilliant coverup ever really. I've got my issues with Kojima but I think the man is far more clever and aware than people give him credit for.

>>716292548
The easiest games to hate are PO and MGS4. They're far easier to hate than MGSV. You're right that MGS3 was the beginning of the series sliding into self-obsession, but it's nothing compared to MGS4.

>>716283823 (OP)
he wasn't

>>716283823 (OP)
It was propaganda, he fought in wars for money and saved many lives but these conflicts were caused by AI (jews) in the first place, he rescued those children in these wars and trained them as child soldiers so that they would actually have a future and better life from suffering. So the AI tried to destroy his image even further with Solidus who did everything wrong (Modern zogbot) and created child soldiers in a bad way, hooking them on drugs and treating them badly i.e Raiden.

The reason rebels loved Big Boss is because he was a true hero in the end, everywhere he went he changed the place for the better against all odds. It was only when Solid Snake came around he lost everything because in reality he saw him as a son and couldn't kill him.

He was essentially Adolf Hitler if he was a soldier and knew the basics of CQC

Wonder what the fuck changed that now we have Death Stranding with its globohomo tones.

The point was that he is a goal justified the means terrorist but in the games where he is MC he literally doesn't do anything wrong and is instead a Marvel superhero who saves everyone

So what was BB's plan after getting Outer Heaven up and running? At this point the AI is basically running the show so what his plan of attack? Fight through it's various proxies until he figured out it's location and unplugging it?

>>716294714
That game where hillary clinton is the antichrist and fucks everything up? Where a NPC says open borders good and then the main bad guy just walks into a base and plants a bomb? the game that is pro-natalist?

>>716294902
Yes, followed by its sequel where they learned nothing from all that and doubled down on connecting the world.

>>716295028
Because the fucking apocalypse happened?

>>716295028
is there a happy middle ground between total isolation and globhomo

>>716283823 (OP)
He's a Big Bitch crybaby.
t. Skullface of XOF

>>716294558
How is Solidus a zogbot? His plan was to assault wall st to cripple the patriots AI, Solidus didn't seem to be the central banking type. He was a inferior version of Big Boss in nearly every way. He hardly had any strategic tact or charisma that Big Boss had. Other than the Tengu soldiers, most soldiers were just following him out of convenience or somewhat similar goals. Dead Cell were most interested in clearing their name and the Russian mercs didn't really care all that much since they followed Olga.

>>716294824
His plan was likely to cut off world powers from nukes and MGs at the very least. While building Zanzibar Land, Big Boss did manage to hold the world's oil supply hostage with that OILIX formula. With the world facing an energy crisis and Zanzibar being the only oil producer with nuclear weapons, it would have easily brought the patriot system to its knees.

>>716283823 (OP)
This video is really fucking long, but it perfectly encapsulates the twists of the MGS series.
https://youtu.be/pzQ46b9TmsY

>>716295268
>He was a inferior version of Big Boss in nearly every way. He hardly had any strategic tact or charisma that Big Boss had.
He came pretty close, he would've succeeded if not for his arrogance and bloodlust and desire to kill his "son" but that too is inherited from Big Boss.
None of the sons had the same conveniences of organic upbringing that Big Boss had growing up, they all had to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" and they all managed to cause quite a stir nonetheless

>>716295939
>they all had to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps"
Solid went to what was basically military boarding school and spent his whole childhood being trained to be a soldier until being put into service. Solidus went on vacation doing warcrimes in Liberia, Liquid had whatever the fuck was going on in 5.

>>716294558
>he rescued those children in these wars and trained them as child soldiers so that they would actually have a future and better life from suffering.
This has to be bait, you can not tell me that him forcing children from third world countries into becoming child soldiers and fighting in wars is altruistic.
>The reason rebels loved Big Boss is because he was a true hero in the end, everywhere he went he changed the place for the better against all odds.
He's was a mercenary that worked for both sides of the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. He didn't fight for them out some sense ideological conviction but because he was hired by various governments and non-state actors to help them out. In MGSV you are simultaneously working for the American government to help the Mujahedeen expel the Soviets out of Afghanistan and working for the Communist MPLA to fight against the UNITA rebels and the South African PMCs working for them. As Kaz states
>The world calls for wetwork, and we answer. No greater good, no just cause.
Ultimately Big Boss's main goal was to create a nation where all soldiers would be valued and never be thrown under the bus once peace came around. Outer Heaven is basically a glorified PMC. If all the citizens are soldiers and the country is constantly at war then then they'll always have value and political capital.

>>716294558
>he rescued those children in these wars and trained them as child soldiers so that they would actually have a future and better life from suffering.
This has to be bait, you can not tell me that him forcing children from third world countries into becoming child soldiers and fighting in wars is altruistic.
>The reason rebels loved Big Boss is because he was a true hero in the end, everywhere he went he changed the place for the better against all odds.
He was a mercenary that worked for both sides of the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. He didn't fight for them out some sense ideological conviction but because he was hired by various governments and non-state actors to help them out. In MGSV you are simultaneously working for the American government to help the Mujahedeen expel the Soviets out of Afghanistan and working for the Communist MPLA to fight against the UNITA rebels and the South African PMCs working for them. As Kaz states
>The world calls for wetwork, and we answer. No greater good, no just cause.
Ultimately Big Boss's main goal was to create a nation where all soldiers would be valued and never be thrown under the bus once peace came around. Outer Heaven is basically a glorified PMC. If all the citizens are soldiers and the country is constantly at war then then they'll always have value and political capital.
>It was only when Solid Snake came around he lost everything because in reality he saw him as a son and couldn't kill him.
He literally tries to kill you in MG1 and 2

>>716284320
>mgsv where you spend the entire game saving kids and being rewarded for pacifism but hes le bad guy I guess
Did you even play the game you are talking about? nevermind it's /v/

>XOF is FOX backwards
Woahg.....Kojirra did it again....