Thread 716334115

at what point did pixel art reached its peak?

>>716334115 (OP)
Undertale

>>716334115 (OP)
Late 90s

When 3rd strike released.

this game must have had ten times the budget of the next two shitbombs

>>716335234
SF3, Warzard, Garou and all those high end SNK games are the correct answer. Starting with Real Bout and SF Alpha 2.

>>716334115 (OP)
This is actually when it all started going to shit, because they were consciously-yet-follishly making pixel art "that would look better" on higher res screens, which meant a lot of flat colors, no dither shading, no intricate detailing, etc. Naturally this is the style all the indie dev trannies ran with because it is also easier to produce and is cartoony just like their little girl animes

>>716335345
That's the thing, it's not only got high end graphics, very expressive bosses with big sprite sheets and quality animation, but also a bunch of hype ass FMVs. It flopped hard relative to its budget, and that's why the next 2 games were stiff pre-rendered crap backgrounds VN ass cutscene central.

>>716334115 (OP)
rain world

>>716335504
Oi Oi, stop making fun of the wholesome indie devs!

>>716334115 (OP)
late 90's/early 00's arcade releases

>>716336064
but where is snk and toby fox now anon?

>>716336064
You could swap Earthbound in on the right side and your argument would fall apart

>>716334115 (OP)
Metal Slug.

>>716336064
>>716335504
>>716336314
kek

>>716334115 (OP)
Yoshi Island.

>>716337175
You need to play more games.

>>716334115 (OP)
Late 90s

>>716334115 (OP)
Metal Slug

>>716337925
the doujin with her was hot and gross

>>716334115 (OP)
He is sure to win because his speed is superior

>>716334115 (OP)
Metal Slug and it is not even a debate. Those games still look amazing to this date and it is a phenomenal statement when Metal Slug, CRT or not, is admired for its raw as fuck pixel art that does not understand a concept of time itself because shit looked good back in 1998 and it still looks good in 2025.

>>716334115 (OP)
before everything became swooshy rotoscoped garbage

>>716336064
>left
pretty graphics but is just a generic side scrolling run and gun like nearly every single game that came out back then. buried in a sea of near identical slop. Has no plot beyond the bare minimum, lending itself poorly to long form discussion.
>right
unimpressive graphics but is a unique twist on the RPG genre with fun combat and memorable characters. has an actual plot with intrigue that people like to talk about and theorize about, prolonging and encouraging discussion of the game

>>716336064
Very generous with the deltarune screenshot, there are some horrid pixel art there, specially undertale, but its intentional, as its mimicking mother world design, even then, deltarune is alive and snk is dead

Some of the shit on the Saturn is beautiful.

>>716342757
Undertale is fugly but I actually think Deltarune looks rather nice, especially chapters 3 and 4.

>>716342986
saturn is peak 2D and if you disagree, you're black. Simple as that.

>>716334115 (OP)
That thing has like a total of 12 frames of animation at most.

>>716336064
>thread is about when pixel art peaked
>typical "old good, new" bad post
>"y-you dare insult our god?!"
>h-he's rich, it's supposed to be ugly, etc. etc.
>Brands into religions.jpg
You Tobysloppers really aren't beating the allegations that you're literally worshipping the guy.

>>716335754
Soulless

>>716343225
I actually really dig how many artstyles and "game within a game" scenarios have been crammed in DR ever since Queen broke out her giant Punchout robot. I would have never thought the game would have had 3D models beyond the gimmick of Jevil's background, but it was used pretty seamlessly for those climbing sections, and even Tenna's background used it like DKC2. Undertale went for a deliberately minimalistic pixel indieshit presentation, but Deltarune was already on the right track by having traditional pixelart interacting with battle scenes, just compare how much more animated Gerson's fight is vs Undyne's. Game has a lot of effort and thought and gusto put into it, Iunno.

>>716335234
Probably

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwLZr92dPDQ

>>716336064
that pixel game on the left is also 40 minutes long with 0 story, exploration, secrets, character development etc
Arcade trannies are retarded

Vanilla and 2nd Impact SF3 are not worth playing over 3S but they definitely had better presentation. Some of the best backgrounds in the genre. But just like the jump to SFA2 to SFA3, and MvC1 to 2, something had to give to account for the bigger roster and expanded mechanics.

>>716345382
Seconded. And damn that's an interesting pattern and I would put CvS1 into that same group: sequel/update has the better gameplay/roster but it has the presentation and aesthetic like nobody's business.

>>716346640
Yep, I know exactly what you mean, CVS is very much on the same boat.

>>716347407
As was Fatal Fury 3. Fuck, I know advances was going to happen but gaming didn't need to act like 2D BAD for the late 90s/Early 2000s.

>>716334115 (OP)
Metal slug is the most impressive pixelated game of all time.

Not just at the time but to this day.

Nothing stops you from playing old fighters

>>716349357
SFA2 had some amazing backgrounds. There's some really detailed ones like Eliza's bday party or the Hong Kong market, but pic related is a favorite of mine, the paralax effect is unmatched. Compare it to the one SFA3 had to settle on for Sagat's stage to see what we were discussing, it's a serviceable background but a lot of layers and detail had to be sacrificed. It's a little sad.

>>716348160
>2D BAD for the late 90s/Early 2000s
Tech lobbyists will tech lobby. It was more organic with games and graphics processors, but the same thing happened to 2D animation in a way it hasn't quite recovered from yet, and behind it there's just industry lobbyists pushing for newer, easier to manage forms of production. Now that the tools are more available than ever, 2D will never die, and Pixelart is, imo, the rawest form of videogame graphics. One that was born for them, and one which will continue to be the most expressive, immediate connection between artists and players.

Also, for FF3's situation, it wasn't that bad, those Real Bout games are still my favorite looking and playing SNK games, I think they have an amazing style-to- roster ratio.

>>716334115 (OP)
PC-FX was where 2D peaked

Classic pixel art was cool looking. Metal Slug, Mark of the Wolves, those are some top tier picks.

But nowadays there's absolutely no point into making pixel art since traditionnal 2D is achievable.
Dragon's Trap Remake, Wario Shake it, Streets if Rage 4, Cuphead, Windjammers 2... That's how it should look.

>>716349582
True

After that, pixel art died for good.

>>716351354
>Takuma's goofy stance
>Athena's thighs they later nerfed
This game's pixels were technically impressive but I still think the artistry behind them was a little misguided. So many characters look off, with distractingly evil-looking faces, wooden-looking muscles, weird stances, or borderline grotesque physiques, specially contrasting to their old designs, or the key art for the very game. It's true that this was the last time a major-ish studio paraded high quality pixelart as a selling point, but I don't need the AAA industry to tell me what to play. Joints like Tengo Project still produce amazing looking pixel games.

>>716352139
Oh fuck, how could I forgot those guys ?
Pocky & Rocky reshrined and Shafow of the Ninja are fabulous.

>>716349838
I think the presentation is why Alpha 3 never truly clicked with me. It's far from a bad game but Alpha 2 hits the spot just a bit more. And I love Real Bout too. RB1 has some great backgrounds as well, it's just FF3's were better

>>716334115 (OP)
at 4k pixels

>>716352139
Would love Tengo Project to design a 2d Fighter

>>716334115 (OP)
Pokemon black white was the peak of gaming

>>716353630
Man, they kind of already did with their incredible Gundam games on the SNES and PSX, but yeah I think it's time for original games now, I wanna see them do new shit already or maybe a Shatterhand sequel

>>716336064
I unironically hate Undertale because it is so fucking low effort looking. It encourages bad development in gaming. It's success has done nothing but hurt the industry.

>>716336912
I nutted my pants when Terry was revealed. Didn't know who the stupid looking kid was or why twitter was excited. Good ol times of 5 years ago

>>716354318
I would argue people had been encouraged for "bad development" ever since everyone took the wrong lesson from Cave Story's chunky pixels. I understand what you're saying because I am not that hot on UT's look but it's because everything on it was developed by literally one dude and one artist. Sequel is anything but lazy, you can cherrypick hometown screenshots all you want but there is a lot more work put into the presentation, it looks so much better than UT.

>>716354318
It was made by like two people, what exactly do you expect? Not everyone can be a master artist, composer, sprite artist (because pixel art IS a different skillset), programmer, and writer. Sometimes there has to be compromises unless you're a millionaire like post-UT Toby and can hire a team like he did for Deltarune.

>>716342614
>Deltarune good because I can circlejerk pairings with troons on /v/
lol lmao

>>716336064
time moved slower back then

>>716334115 (OP)
Dragón breath 4

>>716354069
Endless Duel & MMPR Fighting Edition had no business being as good as they were.

>>716334115 (OP)
Metal Slug series as a whole and most of the Igavania games are top-notch. It's jarring in the latter when they throw in an absolutely hideous 3D modeled enemy amidst all the great spritework (Portrait of Ruin comes to mind).

>>716350028
The hentai games were kino

>>716350028
What game?

>>716348160
Real Bout 1 was objectively the better game, but MAN did FF3 have way more "soul". Every character having a unique stage (and actual daytime variants existing for them) beats the hell out of RB1 having only a handful of generic stages and all of them being indoors or just at night.

>>716345382
>>716346640
>>716347407
Third Strike downgraded the audio too.
A lot was sacrificed for Remy, Q, Makoto, Twelve, and Chun-li

>>716357041
Yeah, Portrait did it with those eyeball enemies but not much more. People have kinda soured on it over the years but I still really love OoE and how it looks. More original sprites than the last two games, and some really great backgrounds. I love those twisted book-filled rooms in Drac's castle. Hell of a last game for the franchise.

>>716357916
It still fucking kills me that Castlevania is dead and that there isn't a single other series that's come to take up its mantle since. I know people will probably say FromSoft's games but it's not the same, man.

>>716334115 (OP)
Last blade 2 unironically

>>716357041
Portrait was easily the most egregious of the DS games when it came to the amount of clashing sprite art styles.
>>716357835
Weren't some frames of animation sacrificed, too? Oh well, at least it's better than if Capcom tried to pull the insane bullshit they did with Vampire Savior's sequels. They really should've held off and just made one uncompromised "Everyone is here" Vampire Savior update for CPS3.

>>716336237
>Round 1
>Sunny day with plenty of people going about their day
>Round 2
>Overcast. Things have quieted down. People are starting to go home.
>Round 3
>Complete downpour with not a soul in sight.
This is my favorite fighting game stage. It's so sick.

>>716358124
Wait, I forgot about the last two games. I wish I could buy that Haunted Castle faux remake standalone, and all those Konami Rebirth games too. I would actually pay money to have them all on a Switch cart or something.

>>716334115 (OP)
When SNK went bankrupt for it.

>>716358328
>the insane bullshit they did with Vampire Savior's sequels
I emulated those two as a kid, all the time, hours and hours against the computer just because Victor had more moves in them (a fucking worthless charged low kick). They really are some of the most baffling fightan sequels of all time and I didn't know any better back then lmao

>>716358328
>spoiler
God don’t remind me. Donovan is my second favorite character and the fact that you have to pick VH2 or VS2 to play him which no one does sucks
VS2 would almost be acceptable to me but it doesn’t have Talbain in it who is my favorite character so fuck it

>>716359215
What mystifies me further is why one of the Saviors sequels was billed as a Vampire Hunter sequel. Capcom only have themselves to blame for these flopping.

SNK burning arcade cabinets in the 90s from all the rendering they had them doing. Because even XI doesn't look that good artistically.
Honorable mention to Konami with SotN.

>>716334115 (OP)
In the late 90's

SOTN, X4, Third Strike, Garou, MM8, Metal Slug 3 are all the peak.

>>716359425
>>716359215
I can't believe that Capcom made a version for the PS1 & Saturn that had all the characters.

SNK definitely is the 1. pixel artist company back in the day. They peaked. It's a shame modern pixel art doesn't get close. But also times have changed and so has the aesthetics of the world with it. Its sad but live for the present and experience what good stuff it still has if you can.

>>716336064
what games is this on the left? been feeling some arcade games but i've played metal slug plenty times

>>716358407
I can't believe they managed to shit up something that could mimic an arcade game from back then so well. You'd think only indies could do that because only real passion can produce such result.

For example the good thing about the present is that old games are more easily accessible then ever until the government cracks down on that harder. A lot of games we wouldn't be able to play back in the day cause we were too poor and not making any money cause we were children are now easily on the tips of our fingers (for now)

KOF XIII but nobody played it

>>716343759
It's not about animation, it's about quality. And sometimes you will get a beautiful game like Owlboy, but the game itself is dogshit to play. More animation doesn't equal better, even SF3 The New Generation had to figure that one out which is why they started speeding things up and chopping out frames for response time and snappier attacks in the re-releases.

>>716357125
Looks like Zenki

>>716360667
>It's not about animation, it's about quality
Uh, yeah it is moron. Animation is part of said quality. What's next? Fun is a buzzword?

>>716360667
Mega Man 8 is also bad

>>716334115 (OP)
2023

>>716360874
Mega Man Maverick Hunter X may 3D assets for the most part, but that game suffered in difficulty because they added animation to many boss attacks, telegraphing them significantly versus the SNES original where their attacks were damn fast and came out with little warning. Fuck's sake, they attached Final Sigma's claws to actual arms he has to physically swing with. For a game like Mega Man, you do not need lavishly detailed animation unless it's really concise, because otherwise either players can feel sluggish (some people really hate the PS1 era of X dashing because it feels they get animation locked, not knowing you can cancel), or make bosses too easy because you see everything coming.

Complaining that a giant intro boss isn't packed with a lot of frames of animation is basically stupid is what I'm saying.

>>716361102
>ESL
Stopped reading there.

>>716360960
That isn’t Mega Man 8

>>716334115 (OP)
2000s Capcom and SNK.

BoFIII-IV, KoFXIII, Third Strike, Metal Slug 3.

>>716343759
He must be in pieces in the game files (cuz the spriters network rip is made out of his parts) but if this reconstructed spritesheet is accurate, Eregion has definitely more than 30 frames, you are underestimating it a little.

>>716361190
BoF3 & 4 were both gorgeous.

>>716361190
>>716361272
I’ve never actually played BoF. Are the first two games worth checking out or should I skip to 3 and 4?

>>716334115 (OP)
Breath of Fire 4

>>716334115 (OP)

>at what point did pixel art reached its peak?

Peak?

>>716361361
They're alright. You don't really get a lot of gameplay evolution in the series, so its probably safe to skip to 3 or 4 unless you just really like old school jrpgs.

>>716361361
3 has some lore ties but it's basically entirely optional to understand them. 1's a really typical JRPG, 2 is really brutal and has some pretty interesting design for a certain mechanic, but generally they're not "must-plays" unless you want to see 2 doing the evil church/religion trope in ways that evaded most censors for the time (though the original localization is also dogshit). It's fine to jump to 3 and 4, and 4 is pretty separate from the rest of the franchise in ways that can't be tied to other games altogether.

>>716334115 (OP)
honestly the first X game is still my favourite, the ps1 games had weird perspectives where the surface of the ground was kind of skewed to give depth instead of the clean cross-section of the snes games which made the elvel design harder to read. Also the assets were a mix of flattened renders and actual sprite work
it's funny though, I think these two portraits are the best looking art in the series and this style like never appears again

>>716361361
I and II are rough but they're all interestingly linked together so you'd be missing out on some brain blasting. Just know that there's nothing past DQ.

>>716361190
I know people love the Squaresoft golden age but Capcom might actually be the GOAT. Their golden age lasted nearly two decades longer and had a lot more variety.
I fucking hate that people glaze modern Capcom just because they’re not as bad as their shithole age of like 2012-2017. It’s not the same man.

>>716362435
Capcom from 93/94 to 2001 was near untouchable.

>>716362576
Personally I’d extend it in both directions. You can go back to the 80’s and still see some great stuff (I have a personal soft spot for 1943) and early 7th gen for them was still really good.

>>716362576
>>716362943
I think Ghosts and Goblins - Devil May Cry 4 (85-08) is a good one. DMC4 is beloved now and I liked it back then but it was a little controversial at the time and definitely was marred by some development issues. 2008 also aligns with Street Fighter 4's release which love it or hate it (I really really really fucking hate it) marked a turning point for them, the beginning of their pandering to the west. But yeah, when they were active in the arcades, fightan, beat em up, their SNES catalog, classic Resident Evil, all the 90s and GBA Megamen, even all their licensed Disney slop, and eventually DMC, Ace Attorney, Maximo, all the Clover titles... nothing but fucking gold.

>>716334115 (OP)
>we never got a Metroidvania but with Mega Man

>>716363842
Mega Man X Corrupted soon Haha.....................

>>716363582
>their pandering to the west
To be fair, Capcom always kinda pander to the West. However, Inafune telling them to BE LIKE western devs and abandon Japan/what got them to the dance was a fucking huge mistake.

I think Blasphemous is the winner.

I'd love to learn and make pixel art, but I'm not even sure if there's a place for them job-wise.

>>716364865
If you mean DmC: Devil May Cry, Dead Rising 3-4, Lost Planet 2 and all that, that's when it reached terminal cancer status, but I think it started with SF4 acquiring that hideous action figure artstyle and dubbing the game to appeal to the west (Ono said so in some interviews iirc). And with that garbage fire movieshit game Asura's Wrath which everyone forgives cuz they think it's cool, but to this day remains one of the skeeviest Capcom productions. That's when they took the first steps towards "abandoning Japan" imo.

>>716334115 (OP)
before a majority of the anons posting here were born.

>>716334115 (OP)
Breath of Fire 4, Garou/Samurai Showdown 5, KoFXIII and Ace Attorney DS games.

>>716365436
AND Metal Slug games.

>>716336660
If we do that we could also put earthbound's abysmal sales to show that on release it flopped like concord and nobody actually ever liked it.

>>716365572
>like concord
lmao retard

>>716336660
Fact Check:

>>716354318
Touhou did that, actually.

>>716365683
Cherrypicking. Use Snowden or something

>>716365746
What a disingenuous take. EoSD was made by a solo indie dev, no shit it's not going to look as good.

>>716365982
Cho Ren Sha was also made by a solo indie dev. Aside from having a separate composer, it was an entirely solo effort too.

>>716334115 (OP)
Metal Slug, and it isn't close. Animated as it is detailed

>>716363582
>no guile
Shit image

>>716365357
Asura is something that's purely spectacle but needed the right gameplay/devs to be an actual good game.

>>716363582
>the beginning of their pandering to the west.
I’d argue that western pandering had always been a part of the company’s history all the way back to 1942’s development and release. A Japanese company making a game about an American fighter pilot killing the entire Japanese naval and air forces is pretty crazy.
It’s just that the HE/Inafune Age really kicked it into high gear. The games have improved since then but they almost have a categorical fear of being “anime”

>>716369242
You're confusing pandering with viewing through their own cultural scope; this is why yankii were a thing, not because they "pander" to it. It's just a form of influences at work

When another megaman legends going to be made?

>>716336064
Proof people like slop right here

>>716369242
>but they almost have a categorical fear of being “anime”
You know, hit the nail in the head, this sentiment really sums up my feelings about modern Capcom. And yeah, I guess Resi, and DMC and God Hand coming with built-in English dubs was always a sign they were "pandering" to the west, but nonetheless, Resi and what have you used to be a pretty interesting love letter to western sensibilities through the eyes of japanese people. Even their Disney games ended up being pretty interesting melanges.

>>716334115 (OP)
GBA

>>716334115 (OP)
Mega Man 8

>>716336064
Holy shit I thought undertale was bad, the sequel looks even worse.

>>716334115 (OP)
Certainly not the Platstaion Mega Man X games, those were ugly compared to the SNES games

>>716365746
Both look better than undertale lmao

>>716336064
>obscure
looks like just some metal slug rip off

>>716334115 (OP)
Around the mid life of the GBA I think, generally, which was really where the last high profile examples of pixel art games were still regularly coming out from the same studios that were making them on classic consoles. That said, I think a lot of fighting games, like what Capcom and Arc Sys were putting out in the late late 90s, early 2000s was pretty great... and KOF XIII as late as 2010 is where we hit the literal highest highs of quality anyone ever reached.

>>716336064
There are multiple eras of retro, anon. Deltarune looks like shit regardless, but it is more closely emulating nes games and not late arcade games (which were more powerful than consoles at the time)

>>716336064
>MUH GRAFIXX!!
Damn it's almost like all you need is good fucking characters and story to make it big.
but don't let the proof stare you in the face or anything

>>716336064
Didn't even know it got a sequel. Did anyone give a shit about it? How have I not known it got a sequel? I would imagine people surely talked about it right?

>>716370740
>Damn it's almost like all you need is good fucking characters and story to make it big.
>retard tring to make a point defending a game
>while missing the point of what makes a games
Anon... it's more about artstyle instead of just muh graphix memes

>>716334115 (OP)
Late PC98 or Neo Geo, IMO, their displays weren't build around CRT distortion for the art to work, so they were allowed intricate details, and they had the budgets to take advantage of the high resolution.

>>716370467
Mega Man 10 should've looked like that.

>>716372225
Daily reminder that 9 and 10 look worse than the actual NES games.

>>716334115 (OP)
With the NeoGeo, PS1 and Saturn.

Seeing those games running on an RGB CRT is still to this day, one of the most impressive things in the medium.

>>716342614
>a generic side scrolling run and gun like nearly every single game that came out back then.
You obviously haven't played Top Hunter....

>>716372821
9 was trying hard to be Megaman 2, which actually did look that bad. 10 tried to be more like the second trilogy of NES games, which the image on the left is from the middle of.

>>716361102
>Complaining that a giant intro boss isn't packed with a lot of frames of animation is basically stupid is what I'm saying.

NTA but I somewhat agree or at least I didn't really think that the PS1 MMX games lacked in animations. The SNES era and PS1 era games seemed fine to me in this regard.

>>716373087
Top Hunter looks fun to play

That would be Trials of Mana.