Why did the Blood Vial system piss off millions of gamers?

dark souls enjoyers just can't deal with healing items being consumables that don't automatically refresh for free

Most people suck at videogames thats the only reason why. We had people whining about grass in Demons Souls which came out 6 years before Bloodborne did.

>>717060995
FPBP
They should have made the healing system like the grasses from Demon Souls but no longer refreshes or gain more of the item through the whole game
Healing is a cheese and a crutch

They died to much and needed to farm them. Id be annoyed too if I was a total shitter

Realistically, what the hell are you supposed to do once you run out? The answer is grind. It's forced grinding on your first playthrough when you don't realize how much you should be putting aside to stock up on them.

>>717061069
Grass was both shit for first playthroughs and also shit if you're good at the game because you can just hold so fucking much

>>717060720 (OP)
It would be much better if they sold for 50 or 100 echoes each instead of 720 echoes each in the late game. Players preferred to farm vials in central yahrnam from huntsmen instead of buying, so they could save echoes for leveling up. And this farming seemed tedious. It's mostly a gameplay balancing issue, as i see it.

The 'grind'.
It really isn't that bad, in truth, but it does bother people, casuals who didn't unstand rally especially. People were spoiled by being able to slowly circle strafe shit and hold up shields. Bloodborne had a lot of enemies very early on that go against that direct philosophy. Slow and methodical works, but fast and counteraggressive works better.

>die over and over to the first boss
>run out of healing entirely
>start to think you're soft locked

>vials and bullets "replenish" themselves automatically
>other consumables don't

>>717061621
>It really isn't that bad,
it is when the lamps dont heal you and theres a 3 hour loading screen to tp

>>717061716
>fight enemies on your way to the boss
>get all of your vials back

>>717061785
I guess I just wasn't that shit to find that stuff out.
I don't remember the lamps being bad after the first patch, though it's been a decade so maybe it took longer than I remember between launch and that first patch that fixed the horrendous load times (I know they're still bad even today though, butnowhere NEAR what they were)

>>717060720 (OP)
Literal skill issue. Just farm the Giants in the first level

>>717061785
Of course the lamps dont heal you, its like DeS. You port to the Nexus/Dream to full health or you run around to find mobs who drop healing items. Simple, effective, easy to understand.

>>717060720 (OP)
OCD niggers need maximum healing 24/7 or they get ANGWY

>>717060720 (OP)
>3 souls games have been out before Bloodborne came out
>people complain about running out of vials
Really exposes the casuals who can't survive without a shield. And here I thought people liked to rollslop.

I never run out of vials anymore but its still a dumb system.
Dark souls 1 Estus was almost perfect, only flaw being kindling letting you get 20 charges which is way too much. idk why they had to fuck with it.

>>717061069
You retards are delusional, I always had 99 grasses with me at all times, that shit didn’t make the game harder, it made it much easier because you had unlimited healing, specially with how slow the bosses are

>>717063563
this is the main issue, demon's souls let you carry insane amounts of grass and trivialize the game. bloodborne having a cap of 20 vials is fine but actually running out of vials (which will happen to plenty of people during a blind playthrough) forces them to either not get hit at all while they progress or stop and go farm blood vials (this is not fun in the slightest and takes you out of what you were doing)

there's a good fucking reason that other fromsoft games give you set amounts of healing you can increase through various methods instead of making you kill enemies to get hp back, and it's because grinding has no place in these games but will occur for a large amount of players unless they are guaranteed some minimum heals

>>717060720 (OP)
Because it forces you to grind and grind specific enemies at that. If you're a casual gamer and you don't really pay too close attention to autistic shit like drop rates and what specific mobs drop what once you run out you're literally forced to just run around like an idiot until you can find more. On top of that the drop rate is genuinely horrible on most mobs outside of the first 2 areas in the game.

>DUDE WHAT IF YOU HAD TO GRIND FOR ESTUS USE???

The mechanic is pointless, it's trivial if you keep a good storage of vials but fucking annoying if you happen to run out.

>>717064374
The problem is that the game has multiple mechanics and challenges that actively grind away your stash anyway.
Chalice Dungeons solely exist to force you to drain your blood vials. There is literally no other point to their existence other than grinding echoes.

>>717062461
yes so that means you have to go through 2 loading screens if you're a shitty noob who has to farm. bad design

>>717063391
>Dark souls 1 Estus was almost perfect, only flaw being kindling letting you get 20 charges which is way too much. idk why they had to fuck with it.
They've somehow never nailed down the healing system perfectly.
In DS1 it's perfect except for its use count, default 5 is slightly too little but kindled 10 slightly too much, 15 and 20 are ridiculous considering the estus upgrades on top where it's easy to keep it healing you all the way.
In DS2 hahahaha lifegems and gradual estus effect only made it more powerful, it's like constantly having mini mushrooms available.
In DS3 they capped the estus use count better, but since you can walk while using it it's far too easy to pop, like grass or divine blessings were.

>>717064374
trvke

>>717060720 (OP)
Over half the game is empty fluff and filler content so they had to artificially extend people's playtime by forcing them to grind for health.
Seriously after Oedon Chapel most of the rest of the game is just filler. The DLC is also mostly filler with the exception of the first area.

Actually, most of everything in the Soulsborne genre is by design filler that is meant to waste your time. Over half the areas in both DS1 and 2 have something other than enemies that forces you to slow down or die repeatedly.

>get a bunch of blood echoes from killing enemies and bosses
>get a few blood vials from killing enemies
>spend blood echoes on weapon upgrade first
>spend on levels
>spend whatever i have left on blood vials
>do this as early as i can to stockpile a fuck ton before they get more expensive
>don't have to worry about it for the rest of the game
I prefer estus because I don't feel like it's a very important mechanic to have the limited stockpile of vials, but doing this has made it so i don't have to worry about it

>>717065057
When you think about it, Souls games are basically the modern horror survival games. In the sense that they take really long to play the first time around since you're just trying to survive and figure which paths go to, but on repeated playthroughs, especially the NG+ cycles, what took hours to finish takes maybe 5-10 minutes because the levels themselves are really tiny.
This makes ER worse in that regard because when you're replaying it, you know that the empty fields completely serve no purpose other than waste your time going form point A to B.

>>717060720 (OP)
Imagine you're fighting Malenia, and on your 10th try, you realise you've run out of heals and now must pause everything you're doing to go farm heals for the next hour.

>>717065193
haha filtered

>>717065193
All ER really does is highlight exactly what the main problem was in all the previous entries that From Soft did in the 2010's.

DS1 can easily be beaten and finished within a single afternoon if you know where to go. The only reason why it feels so long to playthrough the first time is, as you said, the fact that a newbie will have no idea where to go. Once you beat the game, you already know the exact paths to go down so you can rush what you need. Doing that enough however, like I have, makes you distinctly aware of the fact that the majority of your playtime is literally just running from point A to B anyway just like ER. Basically every area after Undead Burg and Blightown is just a massive empty space with a few enemies sprinkled here and there. This is especially highlighted in Anor Londo, Lost Izalith and Ash Lake where you will literally spend 6+ minutes just holding the run button and running in a single direction. After your first playthrough in these games MOST of your time is going to just be running forward.

DS2, for all it's faults, does actually try to remedy this by shoving an absolute fuckload of enemies in every area of the game but again, if you play it more than a few times and learn the enemy placement, it becomes obvious that they are only there to distract the player from the fact that they are spending minutes of their lives just holding forward and running.

Sekiro and AC6 are basically the only games From Soft has made in the past decade where the actual point and the content of the game is present for the majority of the playthrough. Every enemy and area in Sekiro is finely tuned and placed so that you get to actually have proper fun and interaction even after multiple playthroughs.

ER and DS3 though are both nearly fucking unplayable after the first playthrough because like you said, you realize that 50% or more of the shit you see on your screen is absolutely pointless and is only there to look pretty.

>>717061168
Shadow tower, gaylord

>>717065651
DS3 is weird. I remember loving the game on my first save but I just cannot stomach playing it through a second time. I've tried multiple times but the roll spamming combat is just too atrocious for me to stomach. It literally doesn't matter what kind of build or equipment you use, you're just playing the same strategy.

>>717065881
This, I cant believe people defend that dogshit. If I knew how bad it was I woulda never bought it

>>717065881
You can tell by DS3 that Miyazaki and his team just gave up half way through making it. Armor and poise literally mean nothing.

I had to grind that one guy banging on the grate outside of Ludwig's boss room when I fought that first time before Amelia with my shitty whip.

>>717066143
Citation really needed. Isnt absorption a % reduction? DS2 was the one with worthless armor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LtRS0AW9Qg

>>717060720 (OP)
Because it's tedious to grind them and is strictly worse then the Estus system, while also making the game easier because you can hold so many.
Worse for both casuals and hardcore players alike.

>>717065881
I took a break from it after playing it nonstop for a while and I had a good time but it feels like it goes by too quickly.

>>717061069
grass and blood vials both suck in a game where game over / restore from checkpoint doesn't restore your spent resources

>>717064374
grinding for fucking anything in these games is a pain in the ass, especially armor pieces
some consumables being resource limited in ER to justify the retarded crafting system just made me not want to ever use them

>>717060720 (OP)
>normal game
>die, reload a save, have all my stuff back
>dark souls
>die, respawn with healing items back to normal
>bloodborne (and anything else similar)
>die, now I wasted healing items, can't reload, gotta go farm more if Im out therefore prolonging gametime
it's just a roundabout way to pad the gametime
it just doesn't mesh well with the whole die and respawn system

>>717060995
Having only played the Demon's Souls back in 2009, I always thought this was the norm.

I only recently played ER for the first time, and that flask system and other nerfs (ie. no undead stat penalty if you die, no breaking armor and weapons...) made it piss easy.

>>717066348
>game over / restore from checkpoint doesn't restore your spent resources
That's a GOOD thing, and the whole point, nigger.

>No, I LIKE it when the game forces me to grind
There's a genre for you that lets you do this in spades. It's called a JRPG.

fromsoft needs to move away from estus
it worked great in ds1, ds2 had a good idea to make healing be less limited and let you use lifegems and shit. But for DS3/ER wanting to be more straightfoward action games, "stuff a consumable in your mouth for all your health back in an instant" is just extremely boring

Nobody ever plays elden ring then goes "WOW what an amazing primary healing mechanic its very fun to heal!!!" after drinking an estus

>>717067365
I take it Sekiro is your favorite From game.

>>717067519
you arguably 'need' to grind more in sekiro than i dark souls. its more about 'being able' to grind less

>>717067519
It is their best game after all.

>>717060720 (OP)
It's been over 10 years since I played Bloodborne, but I remember being annoyed that there was a cap for them and you once you were full they went to your storagebox and you had to manually take them out.
I remember being so annoyed about having to take them out of the box I just farmed the max amount every time I ran out.

>>717060720 (OP)
Because if you died a lot, you had to farm them. That's it. But the context matters: when Bloodborne came out, Souls games were NOT all about constant aggression and lasers and explosions and AoE like it is now in elden ring where you turn your weapon into a laser blade and the boss flies up into the air and nukes the entire arena with an orbital strike while smaller projectiles vomit out AoE blasts too. People back then were not used to being the one doing the aggression which is how you're supposed to play bloodborne. You're THE HUNTER, not the undead beef jerky or the cursed Zanzibarter. Also gun parrying made sure the enemies would never flail autism on you, but back then people just walked back and dodged and did a lot of hit and run, so they died a lot for it.

I'm willing to bet many of the same people that complained about it but still played it to the end and then continued with ds3, sekiro and elden meme can probably play it no problem and never have to farm any blood vials, ever. It's a shit system, I'm not defending it, but the reason as to why so many people died so much in the first place is basically what made them hate it extra hard since they were forced to farm.

Don't think about all this too hard right now, just go out and slay a few beasts. It's for your own good.

>>717066272
That vid is retarded. It argues that
>I cannot facetank Sir Alonne therefore armor is useless
NO SHIT RETARD he is a late game boss, equipment should not take his fangs out.
Flat absorption is how it's supposed to be done. Imagine you wear full plate but a mosquito can still sting you for 30% of normal damage. Makes no sense. You could argue that FROM overcompensated for DS1 OP armor, but it was a step in the right direction.

>>717060720 (OP)
why is premise of thread that shitters complain because it makes the game harder
when the real criticism is that it makes the game easier since you can just get endless vials instead of game balanced around five estus
vial is shit and grass is shit and estus system was a stroke of game design genius, why they abandoned it in bb is a complete mystery

>>717064926
>They've somehow never nailed down the healing system perfectly.
thankfully, better games like lies of P and wuchang finally perfected it

>>717069572
unfortunately these games got everything else wrong

>>717065651
>Sekiro and AC6 are basically the only games From Soft has made in the past decade where the actual point and the content of the game is present for the majority of the playthrough. Every enemy and area in Sekiro is finely tuned and placed so that you get to actually have proper fun and interaction even after multiple playthroughs.
sekiro is the most "run past everything and just boss rush" on repeated playthroughs

>>717061278
>>717061348
>>717064272
>>717064374
I always save-scum right before a potentially hard boss.
It's a hassle to keep restarting the game, but it beats having to do a runback while slowly running out of resources.

>>717064587
You grind chalice dungeons for OP blood gems and insight, retard.

>>717060720 (OP)
One of the best parts of a souls games is finally getting to that glowing white ball that's a new item and seeing what it is. Okay it's probably some souls but what if it is a cool weapon? Is it a sweet looking new armor piece? What if it's a ring that changes how you play? In BB it's always a consumable.

>>717060720 (OP)
because they had to spend 5 minutes playing the game to farm them

>>717060720 (OP)
Farming after a losing streak is tedious.

>>717060720 (OP)
it was a skill issue because it is only a problem if you die a lot. not saying the system is good mind you. it is pretty dumb but it's ultimately only an issue if you suck.

>>717070941
But sometimes it's a trick weapon which is more exciting than getting 3 weapons at once.

>>717060720 (OP)
I played it first time ever only last year. I thought it was fine. You are limited to only 20 of them so its way better than what DeS allowed. I think BB issue is more how the upgrade system feels like it was lifted out of your typical RPG rather than being more in line with the style of game that Souls goes for. So it makes the weapons feel more random then they probably should. Also the chalice dungeons get old fairly quickly.

This is really my only major complaint for this fantastic game. Like many of you guys I'd love to see a remaster with upscaled resolution and framerate but hopefully its left at just that. This is the modern industry and they are more likely to fuck it up then do it justice.

>>717060720 (OP)
Why is this ok but the grass system of DeS was seems a spammy and shit?

>GRASS BAD
Played DeS after DS1 and just used what I got and it was a cool fun game suck my nuts

>>717060720 (OP)
because they had a better system in the previous games, and the new system doesn't really serve any good purpose