Why is everyone in the tournament playing the exact same characters
Marvel vs Capcom fucking sucks

Other characters aren't viable. Yeah, it sucks.

Why don't Mahvel 2 fags run the ratio mod?
https://wiki.supercombo.gg/w/Marvel_vs_Capcom_2/Ratios

>>717165654 (OP)
it is fun to play casually, but not that fun to watch

Because the ancient lore is that this is the best of the three real teams so it's all any new blood has bothered learning.

Solved game

welcome to fighting games
if the niggers, faggots, trannies and unwashed fatsos don't repulse you the sheer tedium will

watching all the FGC “personalities” get old is kinda sad. Their entire life was trying to embody some “cool gamer” stereotype and now theyre too old, but they keep trying anyways.

>>717165654 (OP)
Tournaments are always about the meta.
Vidya, table top, it doesn't matter.
There is an optimum strategy using the optimum tools to achieve the optimum result and tournament players will use them. It isn't about fun, it's about results.

>>717165654 (OP)
also same stage, i'm looking at you Granblue... fucking faggots, the rule should be random stage select, it's lame as fuck for the viewer

>>717166395
And yet, most MvC3 tourneys aren't all ZMC
Curious

>>717165654 (OP)
>Why is everyone in the tournament playing the exact same characters
Mathematically the strongest team to play determined over 20+ years.

The oddball tourney player who picks low tier is so rare that they make documentaries about them. E-sports are pure shit and drag everything down to a by-the-book snoozefest ironically that no one wants to watch.

Years ago I used to love the Tekken series, I can't fucking watch 7 nor 8 being played by "pros". It is literally just one person starting a juggle/wall bounce and never ending it until the other person is KO'd. This is what people like? This is fun now? I'm done with it all.

>>717166670
ZMC takes nearly TAS levels of efficiency to play effectively. MSP is braindead in comparison.

The issue is twofold
>Most of the roster just can't combo anything for shit. Like good luck doing a four hit air combo with Ryu and then eating a 99 hit Magneto infinite in return
>The Street Fighter cast (which is most of the Capcom half) is not tuned to MvC2's gameplay at all. Ground based footsies don't do jack shit to a character who can tri dash around you.

>>717165654 (OP)
It's hilarious how I saw trannies here cry for years about character viability in Melee only to see their boomerslop games have less.

>>717166670
Because most MvC3 tournaments are just for fun things without any real prestige behind them, when MvC3 came back to EVO two years ago we all saw what the teams were like

>>717166670
MvC3 is generally more balanced, picking a mid tier like spiderman is not as miserable because you can just slap doom assist on and cover alot of your weaknesses, also X factor 3 is a great equalizer

>>717167341
>EVO
>prestige
lmao
Meanwhile, wackbot and MODOK were in Top 8 at CEO this year. Your argument is invalid.

>>717165654 (OP)
becuase they're the best and/or the easiest to not fuck up with
it's not a new game, what the fuck do you expect?
you have your insane savant autists who play random teams and have practiced for 20 years to be able to make them stand up to the rest, but the path of least resistance - and the people who play this shit play for money or ego so they want the win more than they want to do anything niche - is to pick the thing that is the strongest and easiest to not fumble

>>717166415
>the rule should be random stage select
well that went out the window when devs failed to make performance and visibility on all stages equal
when you can't see shit, or when your stage lags like fuck, nobody wants to play on it
the other half of the reason is that they practice on stages with visual markers for distances and they all want to stick to that, but that's a newer thing and less of an issue than the fucking lag

>>717167974
but they changed it exactly for that very reason with SF6 cause niggers only played training stage in SF5

>>717165654 (OP)
Is the MvC collection good for newcomers to fightan or should I get dead or alive

>>717169174
Both are shit options for newcomers so you should get whichever looks cooler to you

>>717167341
as fighting games get more simplified EVO is losing its prestige. some zoomer using mai is likely going to win EVO in slop fighter 6.

>>717165654 (OP)
>>717165709
>>717165929
>>717166237
>>717167023

how is everyone using the same characters relevant to the game sucking?

It looks like a really fun game
717167709
character selection is not a real argument
717167341

>>717169339
What's wrong with using Mai? All characters play the same so they just pick the one with better frame data/hitboxes

>>717169339
What kind of character should be winning street fighter if not a straight up fundies character with good tools?

Competitive gaming sucks. You're supposed to enjoy it at a casual level, not tryhard.

>>717170618
>>717169243
>>717169174
>>717168987

how is everyone using the same characters relevant to the game not being fun?

>>717170635
These particular characters make it so you can't play, you just get comboed all game

>>717170635
Removes the possible variety. Normal people dislike excessive repetition.

>>717170701
>7
>>717170718
This sounds like you have a problem with the genre and not the characters. Thank god trash6 and trashken8 exist, it was literally made for retards like you

ITT: people who don't play fighting games attempt to explain high level competition in fighting games

>>717165654 (OP)
>Psylocke
what the fuck happened to Sentinel?

>>717170941
Psylocke is a better assist for magneto.

>>717170941
Fuck the Knicks

>>717165654 (OP)
One day my Chun Li, T Bonne, Son Son team will dominate.

What if, hear me out on this, they banned Magneto, Storm, Psylocke and Sentinel, so people would be forced to get creative?

>>717165654 (OP)
Cyclops won the finals though.

>>717171439
Doing that would make iron man and cable top 2(they are already in the top 5)

>>717170718
>ormal people dislike excessive repetition
Yet they live their life by routine.

>>717171439
>get creative
>just the next team down

>>717165654 (OP)
It's unironically a solved game and has been for two decades.

>>717171439
Then it would be a Cable fest.

>>717165654 (OP)
Because devs don't know how to balance their games. Ideally the best character vs the weakest character should be 51/49 , but in many fighting games it's 70/30 or worse. How could anyone fuck up the balance so hard?

>>717171439
>Not banning Cable
Are you retarded?

because those are solved games.

>>717165814
Because it's even more broken and unbalanced than just running top tiers, which has more actual variety than any other tag game. Like its not more fun to play juggernaut than sentinel, that's fucking stupid. Beginners want to play low tiers because top tiers are extremely hard to play, experience players play low tiers because they know how broken they are and its fun to meme on people. So you should just play team scrub and learn the game or find something else to play.

>>717165654 (OP)
Tag games are shit. Adding tag paradoxically reduces character variety in a game, it does not increases it.

>>717174904
MvC2 has roughly 25 or so viable competitive teams. I don't even know how big modern fighting game rosters are any more, but probably not much larger than that.

established full teams are considered their own single characters in this game
you'll hear people talk about the matchup between MSS and MSP and how it progresses way before you hear specifically about a Sentinel/Psylocke matchup or something
I like the broken shit anyway, it's more fun to play and watch

>>717175404
>magneto being able to kill any assist off of any random stray hit
>fun

>>717165654 (OP)
Mvc2 is a lazy asset flip capcom shat out in it's dying arcade years, it's popularity is quite literally stockholm syndrome as boomers had nothing to play but it for a decade as fighting games were dead.
It is not and never was a good game to begin with, and anyone who knows about it could tell you this tournament would be a boring samey snorefest as soon as it was announced.

>>717175604
>my magneto being able to kill any assist off of any random stray hit
yes fun

>>717167341
Anon, you know your chart actually shows that Doom+Vergil is more common than ZMC right?

there are not a lot of tag fighters that are balanced in the team variety front, skullgirls is one that comes to mind.

>>717170701
>mvc2
>combos
80% of the time you are getting clipped by random bullshit than you are getting combo'd.

>>717174807
Never seen this character associated with a good post

>>717177761
it's a avatarfag that's just been shitting up every thread he goes on

>>717165654 (OP)
because it's an rushed asset flip with 0 thought put on gameplay and nothing to go with it except the music

>>717165654 (OP)
tokon is to blame for this somehow

>>717169524
>You might say that viability is only a concern for hardcore competitive players, but we think it matters for anyone who really wants to puzzle out the game. In other words, to strategise. No matter the game mode, it is a bit disappointing when the unit roster effectively shrinks as your understanding grows.

>>717167341
People making Marvel 3 out to be this meta oppressed by ZMC & Morridoom and then having to ignore all the character variety at top levels just because those 5 are the most common overall has gotten real old. In that same fucking image you have multiple EVO champions with no ZMC characters like Justin, KBR, and RyanLV with many players who get consistently deep into major brackets with varied teams like Apologyman, IHeartJustice, DualKevin, Nemo, etc. Spartan Throne tied for 5th at EVO with fucking Iron Fist who is Bottom 3. That image also doesn't even include Sacktap who was dominant in the years between official EVO years and still made it deep into the return year all while using some mix of Nemesis/Arthur/Haggar/Ghost Rider/Iron Fist.

The Top 8 characters (ZMC/Morridoom/Dante/Mag + either Spencer or Phoenix depending on who you ask) are common and powerful but you're not seeing anything close to saturation like MvC2 where outside of powerful assist characters and the four gods you really only see Iron Man or Clock's Strider/Doom succeeding at the top level.

>>717165654 (OP)
Once the tier list for a fg settles people will gravitate to the top and high tiers for the best odds of winning even if the power gap between them and the rest isnt that big. In reality most of these games, marvel series included, the upper half of the roster is probably competitively viable. Also a good shell can carry mid tiers in mvc2 as well.

i used to write this game off as a dumb asset flip game (in part because i thought cape shit was dumb). But team dynamics are fun, constructing a team is fun and so is all the crazy shit you can do. And despite some desparity in the sprites, the game looks pretty good overall. Imo Mvc2 visually mogs sf4 5 and 6, and mvc3 and mvci as well.

>>717165654 (OP)
I've also been seeing a lot of Sentinel, Captain Commando, Cable and Jin in tourney metas. Which makes sense because these were literally all the good characters when the game came out.

Something that always bugged me was how squishy Wolverine was (on par with Spiderman). I know they introduced his X factor in MvC3 but it was underwhelming and, I recall, requires you to blow a special for, what, a fifth of a bar back over time? Wolverine should have the overall base squishyness of a medium-sized character due to his adamantium skeleton and a very low regen that is active at all times.

>>717178618
>Imo Mvc2 visually mogs sf4 5 and 6, and mvc3 and mvci as well.
Marvel 2 being loaded with sprites from Capcom's golden age gives it a leg up but all the cut-down animations and DVD menu UI really hurt it IMO, same with every stage being a pretty generic location outside of the Ruby/Amingo home stages. I'll take the low-poly harsh-shaded but deeply in love with the characters/worlds represented Marvel 3 (and TvC) over it overall, and I contend that MvC1 mogs the lot of them aesthetically.

>>717178637
>Jin
Did I miss something? Since when is Jin a common tournament character over Iron Man, Cyclops, or even Strider/Spiral + Doom Rocks shells?

Fighting games have the same problems as Counter Strike and a lot of competitive games. You use the same handful of characters/weapons/strategies or you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage. It's extremely tedious and part of the reason I stay the fuck away from these games.

>>717179383
this

i played a lot as a kid but is there a place i can get online matches against other scrubs like me? also is there a way to make a viable team with a combination of CapComm, Jugg, Venom, Doom, amingo, shuma?

>>717177937
>0 thought put on gameplay
0 thought put on balance sure, but MvC2's system mechanics were genuinely innovative. Every tag game that came after it took notes from its elegant simplicity and stapled on or rearranged ideas from it; Marvel Tokon is the first game I've seen really try to deviate and to be blunt some of it feels like change for the sake of change. Infinite isn't as innovative as people like to say; it didn't invent Active Tag and it's not even the best implementation of it.

>>717179383
If you're at a huge disadvantage for not picking the top tier in a fighting game below a major tournament level then the game is egregiously unbalanced.

>>717179383
Not every game is as unbalanced like mvc2 where you put yourself at a real massive disadvantage for not picking the top tiers. However typically good players will always pick a top tier specially if they're playing professionally.

>>717179383
>Fighting games have the same problems as Counter Strike and a lot of competitive games. You use the same handful of characters/weapons/strategies or you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage. It's extremely tedious and part of the reason I stay the fuck away from these games.
single player games are even worse

>>717179513
Make threads on v and ask for beginner matches. You still may get dunked on but probably not as hard

>>717180271
Your post makes a great point but it's the opposite of the one you intended. A dominant strategy doesn't outright invalidate a game, whether that's a top tier fighting game character or exploiting boss AI quirks; to actually execute these things consistently you still need some understanding of how the game works. If you don't and just stumble into them every time, THAT'S when it's too much, and nothing in this thread so far reaches that point.

>>717179614
there is no good implementation of active tag cause it's a dogshit mechanic

>>717179513
I've been running a team of Amingo, Shuma, and Spidey since I was a kid. I make it work enough and get a win now and then. Helps if your opponent doesn't know how to fight your character at all lol.

>>717180690
shut the fuck up
multiplayer games are more interesting because your opponent can adapt to your strategies
in single player games you are stuck with the stupid ai
stop posting that image stupid moron

>>717180713
Generally I agree but putting some guardrails on it so it's not as fucked up as Infinite's is good. Look at Tekken Tag 2 (and by extension SFxT; that game had a lot of issues but the way its tags work isn't one of them) for example, or the way S4 of DBFZ allowed tagging only during specials on hit/block and still had the new character come in via Super Dash like usual. The closest to the more open-ended implementation that was good was Power Rangers since it combined it with traditional assists pretty smoothly without going full retard like BBTag and other later games did.

Marvel Tokon's soul transfer thing where there's a very clear visual tell of when control changes is nice but I do long for the days when you had to consider when Hard Tags and DHCs were safe to do.

>>717179383
You should play Arcana Heart.

>>717179303
Jin is not common at all but Blodia is a great DHC.
>>717171439
Just play ratio where most teams are 3/2/2 or 3/3/1 which covers a good amount of the cast.
>>717179513
Jugg has power up glitch and is great in team combos.
Cap has the best assist in the game.
Doom is top-tier, Rocks assist and multi direction air dash with 1 button laser and Photon Array.
Venom is bad but he still has tricks if you specialize in him. Great pairing with Doom actually since Venom Fang can add to the chip.
Amingo and Shuma are as bad as Venom but Amingo is probably easier to slot on a team.
So Venom and Jugg would make decent point characters with the caveat that Jugg needs to be tagged out immediately after Power Up to activate his glitch. Then Cap and Doom can stay in the back spamming shit on the screen. Only problem with those 2 on assists is that neither make great point characters so you need your 1st to do a lot of work so they don't play 2v3. Probably play with those 4+Amingo to start out with.

>>717165654 (OP)
Because this is a old fighting game that has already been solved.

>>717181756
The game's meta is pretty rigid but arguing that with Iron Man who has slowly risen in notoriety over the years to the point where he's considered a 5th God Tier at this point isn't the best call.

>I need a variety of different keys being jingled in my face in order to enjoy a competitive spectacle

>>717181894
I think he just wanted to post the Infinite in use during Top 8.

>>717171439
>Iron Man/whoever/Cyclops teams to set up the fuckin' infinite
>Cable zoning teams with some mix of CapCom, Cyclops & maybe Mega Man for the 1f normal and Buster neutral
>Still only 1 or 2 people piloting Doom rocks-enabled pressure teams to success and maybe a Dhalsim player if you're lucky
It wouldn't be THAT much different.

>>717165929
It's not even fun casually

balance is a spook. Magneto, Storm, and Sentinel are the most fun characters in the game and the game itself is insanely deep. People who don't actually don't fucking play pretending that they want more one trick ponies like juggernaut or complete cancers like sim/anak can fuck off

I'm starting to think fighting games are one big joke.

>>717182251
>XD yipes stupid nigger randumb humor haha yippee XD
My god you are such a faggot.

>>717182251
Hey man the most fun I have with Marvel 2 is Iceman/Juggs/CapCom and you can't take that away from me.

>>717182438
well yeah
fighting games are just glorified guessing games

>>717181894
I wasn't arguing just pointing out the obvious of why top lvl players play most of the same characters in tournaments. Tbh I am fine with how the game is and also this >>717182102

>>717182569
>can't take that away from me
>posting a pic of the scene where a sandwich LITERALLY gets taken away from Shaggy
I know you're not smart enough to know that or witty enough for the irony.

>>717182569
you can enjoy it but that team sounds incredibly dull

Why do fighting games cause more collective seeth from tourists and secondaries than almost any other genre of video games discussed on /v/?

>>717182251
>. Magneto, Storm, and Sentinel are the most fun characters
>storm

>>717182898
Because fighting games are casual and easy to get into so it invites more shitposting from the masses.

>>717182898
they have the best character designs in the industry which draws in all kinds of people who then hit a brick wall when actually trying to play the games. It's a never ending battle of people who don't play/like fighting games trying to companies to cater to them and worst of it is many companies try which usually drags down games

I think the solution to fighting games would be to implement some automatic combo break after enough damage.

Somehow like if the dizzy or stun was a combo breaker, like Mortal kombat 4.

>>717183302
That's already a thing dingus. Hell, MvC2 literally has a spin out. But it doesn't matter when someone with the right character and skill can just pull some resets and still combo your ass. But I wouldn't have it any other way.

>>717183547
It has to be a hard reset to neutral.

Basically make the players unable to input stuff or physically unable to reach the oponent.

>>717182158
If only Rock Ball was an assist...
>>717182619
Marvel 2 is actually the most strategic FG.

>>717182746
It gets taken away from me when I get bodied for having bad blocks in a tag game so it's not inaccurate.

Man, I miss Salty Bet when it was populated.
It was like a Renaissance for my love of fighting games.

>>717183302
>>717183639
it's called strive wall and it ruined the game.

>>717184650
Strive was failed by very many things.

>>717174807
Insanely retarded take. People want to play the characters they like you stupid fuck

>>717184972
TRVTH NVKE

>>717183302
Plenty of games have infinite prevention and combo scaling, capping off combos at damage thresholds would kill the idea of differing damage between characters in a tag game (even heavy scaling can do that; see MvC Infinite where the scaling is so aggressive that "high damage" characters barely do more than mixup characters who can get hits thrice as often).

>>717183639
That's Bursts which plenty of games have, and it's healthy to have them in the hands of the player instead of solely determined by the system since it lets you cut off combos before your opponent gets most of the damage out of them AND adds a layer to gameplay by introducing burst baits.

Get rid of combos
Get rid of juggling
Get rid of anime shit
Have short aesthetic finishers.
Keep the neutral, pressure loop intense and frequent
No tranny shit
Hot chicks
Make billions

>>717184650
>>717184923
Breakable walls are a neat idea but Strive's infinite loop of them and how much damage/momentum you can get off of a wall break in the name of removing pressure is egregious. Tokon having a three-segment stage that has real corners on the far ends is a better idea, on top of it having rounds that reset to neutral after each (like how DBFZ reset to neutral after every character death).

>>717165654 (OP)
mahvel2 was ass

I see we're talking about the "why don't fighting games add single-player content" gambit

>>717185305
Unrelated but tokkon has four character teams. I'm watching some of this footage and there's like hardly any interaction between the characters. I was hoping for insane levels of team participation. I mean with 4v4 would you not expect a certain level of chaos on screen? Seems dull

>>717170618
Based, you're also supposed to fuck around with characters instead of autistically focusing on one main

>>717165654 (OP)
The first game is better.

MVC1 is a fighting game.
MVC2 is a function game.

>>717185413
Literally wasted dev time and money. But these corpos want to grow their audiences

>>717185478
roster too smol

>>717185502
casuals ruining the genre yet again with their inane ideas

>>717181756
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpYdEjvAg3k

>>717185413
SF6's sim-sim is the best single player content that's ever been added. The bot ACTUALLY plays very similarly to a human (although its spacing/defense at Master level is better than a typical player) and I think it makes a good replacement for training mode/fighting against mashers when you're first learning a character. If they could implement sim-sim AI into some sort of single player mode I think it would help onboard people a bit better.

>>717185587
Hopefully Tokon makes good use of the formula.

>>717185439
Tokon has you start each game with only two characters and you "unlock" the other two as you play through various means like causing a stage transition with a super or throw, and health/meter values also go up as the game goes on. I think it's so that insane shit like having all four characters onscreen at once only happens in later rounds. Also the assist of each character is determined by what slot on your team you make them, so order matters for more than just how early you'll get access to them. I said it before, it feels like they've tried as hard as possible to come up with a tag system that ISN'T derivative of MvC or even prior ArcSys tag games (of course some things are just always going to be there, Cap has Charging Star and Tony/Doom have beams).

>>717185920
>fighting game forces you to fight

wew fucking day one bomb

>>717165654 (OP)
always has sucked, only muricashits give a damn about this garbage game

>>717185478
I'm a marvel super heroes vs street fighter guy myself

>>717186039
That game is pretty good too. A little too slow but still a serviceable fighting game.

>>717185920
Yeah but thats gay

Every tag fighter ever made is dogshit in gameplay
It's not up for debate.

>>717185920
my fear is Tokon will be all about optimizing your point/main character and hardly be a tag fighter at all

>>717186143
Tekken tag 2 exists
Sf x tekken exists

>>717185478
https://youtu.be/zF4SmCv7k-8?t=7102

>>717186236
the meta will be start with a character who's good in neutral, when you get the hit the combo and switch out to a character who's good at corners, you also have a character who is really hard to kill when your health gets low that you can bring in to try and survive, the rest your team will be designed for maximizing damage in combos backing up those two rolls and counter picking.

>>717186461
I don't mind infinites much, it's the relegation of characters to a single function that make a fighting game feel like an ARPG to me.

Marvel 2 has always been overhyped by hoodlums and niggers. They even use dreamcast mods to get rid of the amazing jazz OST for 50 cent and fucking nigger rap.

>>717186236
they already are focusing so you can only play with your main see how jwong is like 'imma only play storm'
there's not huge reason to tag unless you want damage that isn't level3 or there is really bad matchups - but mostly to change out that 3rd slot / sauce assist

>>717186789
I bought a bootleg copy for the PS2 one time and had the biggest scare of my life followed by the hardest laughter when the OST started hard rapping about "ass 'n tiddies" lmao

>>717186789
maybe because the soundtrack was garbage and got meme'd it into being 'good'

>>717186789
Jazz? The music that's most commonly associated with blacks?

>>717188095
??

>>717186143
UMvC3 is the best fighter ever made so you're wrong but I do think most tag games don't pull it off well enough.

>>717186256
Tag 2 is based. I have a soft spot for SFxT including its tag mechanics but it has some real issues even after v2013 smoothed some of them out.

>>717187560
>having this much shit taste

>>717188095
Maybe like 100 years ago. Jazz is now associated with asians and white nerds.

>>717185805
>infinite
>drops after 59 hits
??????????????????

>>717188846
The soundtrack was lambasted on release, it literally took years for people to warm up to it.
>>717189029
Are you old enough to be using this site?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylXk1LBvIqU&list=PLrhkpF1bKMG_D2sxTpxG63WGmIxYGB-Jt

>>717189180
>posts a guy that was literally born 100 years ago
Coltrane, Parker and all those guys laid down the foundation, black people are not into jazz these days, Jazz became a nerd genre that has no edge. and it's better than ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyydSocn5dM

>>717184972
nah you're retarded. you just don't understand theres an unbeatable top tier even when you ban the gods from the game. You're just ignorant and stupd.

>>717174807
nobody wants to see custom mugen sideshow / auction charity event

>>717189180
they removed all the character themes

>>717185260
>Get rid of combos
>Get rid of juggling
>Get rid of anime shit
>Have short aesthetic finishers.
>Keep the neutral, pressure loop intense and frequent
>No tranny shit
>Hot chicks
>Make billi-aACK!?