Thread 717750049 - /v/ [Archived: 34 hours ago]

Anonymous
8/10/2025, 3:34:00 PM No.717750049
1753897191538464
1753897191538464
md5: 2185704dc8023c5efc60169849261325🔍
games used to look sharp in the 2000s and anti aliaising did not blur the whole screen

what the fuck happened in 20 years that made anti aliaising look like vaseline was poured on the screen?
Replies: >>717750171 >>717752214 >>717754839 >>717755647 >>717756775
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 3:36:12 PM No.717750171
45423823
45423823
md5: c730ef2d852291c9ce0dd7a7ebf2391c🔍
>>717750049 (OP)
just add sharpenin
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 4:16:22 PM No.717752214
>>717750049 (OP)
Developers are dogshit now.
We could still use MSAA or SSAA
TAA isn't that bad if it's implemented properly (IN RIGHT TYPE OF GAMES)
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 4:32:10 PM No.717753095
1728805-screen_shot_2011_03_09_at_1.54.43_pm
1728805-screen_shot_2011_03_09_at_1.54.43_pm
md5: 034b5b068d8dcc81d8f75728668e2d49🔍
Deferred rending was a deal with the devil to allow for more dynamic lights in the DX9 days
Is there any reason to not use forward+ clustered rendering these days? Massive light count with more flexible shading, easier transparency and proper AA
Replies: >>717754390
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 4:54:52 PM No.717754390
>>717753095
Deffered is better to run but has flaws when it comes to materials
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:02:07 PM No.717754839
what having 0 postprocess looks like now_thumb.jpg
what having 0 postprocess looks like now_thumb.jpg
md5: b7c3ce6cb7e602e3a426dddfc8febe0e🔍
>>717750049 (OP)
>what the fuck happened in 20 years that made anti aliaising look like vaseline was poured on the screen?
Graphics changed. 20 years ago the only aliasing you could really see was geometric aliasing from models. A very lightweight antialiasing method or just 2xMSAA could handle that.

Now there's a fuck ton more things happening on the screen. Textures and shaders and effects and lighting and transparency and specular effects and PBR and noise and moire patterns everything else. Graphics have become too detailed and have way too much information happening per pixels compared to before, which is too much for resolutions like 1080p to handle so a new form of aliasing starts occuring.

This new temporal aliasing does not happen per-frame, it happens because of the differences between each frame. Frame 1 might look fine on its own, frame 2 might as well, but when played one right after the other the differences make the image look bad. Like webm related. Spatial antialiasing like MSAA can't really address all these things. That's why if you play a modern game with with MSAA or all the antialiasing effects and post-processing effect turned off, it looks like this.

To combat temporal aliasing you either need a graphically lightweight game with textures that look like cardboard, or you need a much more thorough and heavy version of temporal antialiasing that can catch the issues over time instead of per-frame. When you don't have enough resolution, temporal antialiasing breaks and look like shit. That's why TAA is so hated, the majority of PC players are still on 1080p like it's 2009 and TAA looks awful with 1080p. This is why you could have crisp graphics with 1080p 20 years ago but now it's blurry shit.
Replies: >>717755252 >>717755548 >>717755609
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:08:56 PM No.717755252
>>717754839
Or alternatively, changing the default rendering mode to something that lets MSAA work again. That'd create numerous other headaches but at least we could make our games look sharp without needing to sell our kidneys for 4k.
Replies: >>717755614
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:13:34 PM No.717755548
>>717754839
Aliasing becomes less of a problem at higher resolutions. We could have gone 0 AA and 4K and had a better standard than smeary ghosting and artifacts. Unironically, the solution was worse than the problem. Aliasing was still pixel-accurate and you could still tell what objects were in motion. TAA is no longer pixel-accurate by introducing artifacts in motion that are not really there in the simulation layer. With everything we have now, go ahead and open any of these old games and run with AA OFF, 4K. Open Doom 3, 4K, no AA. You have such accurate visual clarity. Assuming you have good vision already, the ability to pixel hunt is preferable to being nearsighted in-game. (Distant things lose more clarity with ALL AA methods.)
Replies: >>717756045
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:14:30 PM No.717755609
>>717754839
There were already texture based solutions for shading aliasing nearly 20 years ago, it is super simple and cheap
https://developer.download.nvidia.com/whitepapers/2006/Mipmapping_Normal_Maps.pdf
https://blog.selfshadow.com/2011/07/22/specular-showdown/
This approximation has been updated to be more physically based and baked into mipmaps
https://www.activision.com/cdn/research/siggraph_2018_opt.pdf
It's even an option in Unreal
https://dev.epicgames.com/documentation/en-us/unreal-engine/composite-texture?application_version=4.27
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:14:35 PM No.717755614
1754688575573466m
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md5: cbef9fbe1539b8e87655b0e998124414🔍
>>717755252
4K could be easier to run with simpler graphics techniques.
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:15:04 PM No.717755647
>>717750049 (OP)
RTCW, DoD, CoD 1, etc... had static environments, simple maps and models. You cannot compare a modern day open-world game to arena shooters of the 90's that you'd run at 1080p. We've reached a plateau in terms of graphics, what you describe as 'vaseline/blurry/smeared' are all valid critiques, but it's a step into a different direction towards more adaptive upscalers like FSR, DLSS, etc... that can crank out pixels on SSGI solutions that become limited.
On one hand we don't have hardware in order to calculate lighting every frame and in the other we are limited by current software. CG has always been smoke and mirrors and unless we get another John Carmack I don't see it going anywhere in the meantime. My prediction is that we are just going to keep getting streamed games, like Google Stadia and the like.
Replies: >>717756161
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:20:53 PM No.717756045
>>717755548
>With everything we have now, go ahead and open any of these old games and run with AA OFF, 4K. Open Doom 3, 4K, no AA. You have such accurate visual clarity.
Funnily enough I tried Doom 3 at 4K with MSAA 8x and could STILL see some aliasing. Traditional AA methods were never 100% effective no matter how insanely hard you forced your GPU to work.
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:22:42 PM No.717756161
reggie-not-fun_thumb.jpg
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md5: c873d99fdae584a9eb792c993a43ff34🔍
>>717755647
Yeah, and for worse performance than BF3 ran on today's hardware. BF3 could run at 300 FPS locked, looking great, at 4K. The marginal upgrade to minutiae at the expense of performance and clarity has been a mistake we will look back on like some of the awful resolution standards we have abandoned.
Replies: >>717756482
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:28:12 PM No.717756482
>>717756161
>BF3 could run at 300 FPS locked, looking great, at 4K.
BF3 can run at 300fps locked looking great at 4k WITH TODAY'S HARDWARE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqnhgU_3lF0

In 2011 not even close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhcsV1uMeVs
Replies: >>717756972
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:32:49 PM No.717756775
>>717750049 (OP)
Sweeney
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:35:26 PM No.717756972
giphy
giphy
md5: c3087dd86911f56d624e2b829b6d436a🔍
>>717756482
Yeah, exactly, the problem isn't the way the game was made, it was the lack of hardware performance that needed to catch up. We can make games like BF3 IN 2025. We already have the hardware. If you told people it was a new game and they didn't know it, they wouldn't question BF3/4's graphics being modern.
Replies: >>717757230
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:39:15 PM No.717757230
>>717756972
>If you told people it was a new game and they didn't know it, they wouldn't question BF3/4's graphics being modern.
I understand what you're trying to say but they absolutely would know. BF3/4 look like PS4 games. Which is pretty good considering they run nicely at PS3-level hardware but it would be called dated graphics if released now.
Anonymous
8/10/2025, 5:51:35 PM No.717758039
Seriously look how good this cs1.6 video looks compared to cs2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPjPiS-qC0k
https://youtu.be/Mo9thQ9siGQ
it's fucking disgusting what they've done to games