Who was the best snake?

Solid of course. He embodied the Boss'es legacy without even knowing about it. Also he was a decent human being which can't be said about any other Snake. Pipo Snake is a close second.

the Midgar Zolom

>>717944152
>Also he was a decent human being which can't be said about any other Snake.
Whats wrong with raiden? And was big boss really that bad of a guy?

>>717944546
Raiden killed children when he was a child soldier

>>717944546
Raiden isn't a real Snake he was just given the codename when the Big Shell mission begins. He never went through the Foxhoun code name assignment like all the other Snakes so I don't consider him a real Snake.

>>717943350 (OP)
You're missing 1,
Although he never held the title Snake, he does infact have Big Boss' genes

>>717944831
I thought Johnny was just some random guy as he didnt take the nano machines

>>717943350 (OP)
The blood in your mouth.

>>717944881
He's one of the genome soldiers from MGS1.

>>717943350 (OP)
LIQUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID

>>717944881
He's a genome soldier. After Les Infantes Terribles, Patriots decided to just use gene therapy to shape genes to be like Big Boss'

>>717944546
the boss literally used child soldiers, in metal gear 1 and 2 he's basically a boss from a solid game at their worst, morally. not in a chaotic sense like pain or fatman, but in a very neutral evil kind of way

>>717945000
>>717945135
what the fuck how did i miss this jesus christ 4 is a clusterfuck

>>717943350 (OP)
Pipo Snake is a legend

Was does Johnny shit himself so much? I know its because he doesnt take the vax but like why does not taking it make him shit himself so much???

>>717943350 (OP)
raiden or the monkey easily
maybe naked snake too

>>717945280
they tell you that in mgs1 bro...

>>717944698
Raiden is essentially a Snake in the same way Venom is: a memetic Snake instead of a genetic one. The specifics may vary, with Raiden going through countless VR sims of Shadow Moses while the Medic was hypnotised, but the end result is the same: A super soldier created through meme osmosis

>>717945325
i think its just a front to act stupid. or the gene modifiers increasing his metabolism too much

>>717943350 (OP)
Solid Snake followed by Venom Snake. The rest of them are losers, including Big Boss.

>>717945280
>That's right Snake! You've been killing our brothers all along!
It was literally one of the twists in the game

>>717945325
Because he gets sent everywhere, and when you eat food that your' gut bacteria aren't used to digesting, you get diarrhea until they figure out what the fuck you're eating.

>>717945486
Neither Venom or Raiden are Snakes. That's why they have their own names. PW is also full of those fake animal code named fakes.

>>717945325
He got the inferior inferior genes

>>717945565
well I guess but in the Alaska base in mgs1 they would have had normal American food there and mgs2 was on a place near new york so that would have had normal american food too

>>717945521
>>717945565
It's explained in MGS3. All his family members get running shit when they get stressed.

>>717945735
oh

>>717944152
>He embodied the Boss'es legacy without even knowing about it.
i've seen/heard this so many times before but no one has ever elaborated on either the claim or what the boss' will actually was. it feels like this is some bullshit that some youtuber said (superbunnyhop) and everyone parroted it uncritically.

>>717945705
Clearly this is the result of his Russian ancestry. His soviet stomach rejecting filthy capitalist food

>>717945850
Play MGS3. Boss clearly says what her ideals are.

>>717945987
I'll just wait for the remake

Mesal Gear vs Gurlugon
Who would win?

MGS1 snake was always the best
MGS2 snake is too preachy.
MGS3 big boss is too retarded
MGS4 snake is a humilation ritual
Peace Walker big boss was ok
MGSV big boss was not even the same character anymore

>>717945850
It was never explained wtf she really wanted. But every Snake + Zero and Skullface acted on a portion of it
What the boss did with her life
>Acted in self sacrifice for a better world (Solid)
>Took orphans and taught them to fight for themselves (Solidus)
>Create a place where Soldiers have a home (Naked and Liquid)
>Raise soldiers that will protect the world (Zero)
>Be the bad guy that keeps other bad guys in check (Skullface)

>>717946058
Guy Savage

>>717945987
no, she doesn't. she says some bullshit that is extremely vague and that no one understood. that is the whole point of "the boss' will", a bunch of people looked up to her and wanted to carry on her beliefs without understanding those beliefs. they never actually define what she wants. her "will" is completely undefined.
>i went to space and saw no borders!
that does not define her will in the slightest. that is an observation at best. it does not define her will, what she would like to happen to get to that will, or what values should be upheld as a society.

the world would be better off without snakes

>>717946253
>that no one understood
Consider the fact Snake was used like the Boss. Consider the fact how he ended up and what he accomplished compared to her. Maybe that will make it more easy to understand.

>>717946459
You are literally grasping at straws here.
Why not actually explain your point and not act like fucking PirateSoftware with the "if you think about it, I'm right :^)" bullshit

>>717946253
the boss' will is kind of a cope for why you would enlist to be a soldier for the government. Which is, to fight for world peace.

>>717946459
>Consider the fact Snake was used like the Boss.
every snake was used "like the boss". every single one was a pawn in a larger game.
>Consider the fact how he ended up
not at all like the boss?
>what he accomplished compared to her.
again, elaborate.

>>717946696
these are youtuber parrots, they don't have any thoughts in their own head.

>>717944546
Raiden was a VR homunculus and he threw away all his character development in order to become diet gray fox

>>717946209
Zero never did that though, he created the Snakes and none of them actually tried to protect the world

>>717946162
MGS1 Snake is the horniest too

>>717944546
>And was big boss really that bad of a guy?
He brainwashed his best soldier to the point he lost his identity and thought he was Big Boss himself. Which was the worst way to villainize Big Boss because the trailers made it look like we were getting some sort of Heart of Darkness descent into evil but instead we get a lame twist and it's like "gee that was pretty shitty of Big Boss I guess" that lands like a wet fart.

>>717944546
>And was big boss really that bad of a guy?
Big Boss was basically exactly like Solidus: a dickhead who just happened to be against bigger dickheads but still a total dickhead
Since most nuplayers were introduced to Big Boss in MGS1 posthumously all they know is he's a great fella who did nothing wrong according to the vaguely sympathetic FOXHOUND freaks

>>717947236
>that part in 4 where Snake drops a document to look up Naomi's skirt

>>717947556
>He brainwashed his best soldier to the point he lost his identity and thought he was Big Boss himself
He didn't do that, though, Ocelot did while BB was in the coma. He merely ran with it, which makes it even lamer because the act that's meant to show his moral bankrupcy wasn't even his idea.

>>717947556
kojima did his best to stitch the cutscenes into something compelling for trailers, like showing shots of big boss firing off into a crowd of children but actually owning up to none of that.

>>717946209
What the Boss wanted is choice. She never had any because she was mentally buck broken since childhood to follow orders. She commits suicide to facilitate Philosopher ideals that were never hers. She wanted off the wild ride like Solid did when he jumped ship from Foxhound and funded Philanthropy. What she wanted Jack to understand is not to become her, what he understood is "soldiers are being used" and in time he boxed himself into the same one way road as she was.

>>717943350 (OP)
Ludens

>>717947751
I vaguely remember Miller getting super assblasted at Big Boss over what he did to Venom. Honestly I feel like the whole subplot of Miller trying to create the perfect burger left more of a lasting impression than the destruction of his relationship with Big Boss.

>>717947605
sundowner but edgy

>>717947751
He continues to gaslight Venom into thinking it's what's best at the end of the game though. Venom looks down and sad initially and then Big Boss comes back on going
>"Yeah you lost literally your entire past life but we're both badasses you know so keep on being what's essentially my assassination target bait and keep on keeping on man :)"

>>717947721
>be told you're months away from turning into a walking bioweapon
>-2 psyche bars
>look at Naomi's cleavage
>instantly back to full

>>717947751
All of MGS3 and Peacewalker was Naked Snake just being led around by the nose, pathetic. Did Big Boss ever have agency or was it always his friends getting him into trouble up to the very last moment?

>>717944096
What’s his code name?

>>717944831
Doesn’t matter if he had the genome restructuring, he never had the title. Otherwise, Raiden and Venom are disqualified.

>>717948047
Miller got his revenge in the end by training Solid.

>>717948542
Hard Serpentman

>Fox is the highest Foxhound codename
So BB could never finish his own training regime?

>>717948047
miller was assblasted at all the lying a deceit that went on. he was plagued by paranoia, thinking that everyone else was in some grand scheme against him. when he found out about venom being a decoy, he again felt betrayal. venom kept making decisions that miller did not want to happen at diamond dogs like not killing quiet. while he respected venom, the paranoia and betrayal when he found out that venom was not big boss hurt him gravely and made him question everything he's been doing even more. he also felt wounded that big boss just left him after all this time and never came for him or even let him know the plan.
the problem is that all of this is in late/post game cassette tapes and requires piecing together the arc from cutscenes and cassettes after 50+ hours of gameplay that are sparsely peppered throughout the experience while other narrative threads are much more prominent, distracting you from miller's story.

>>717948542
In DS logic it would be Wifefucker
In MGS logic it would be Bandana Bull

>>717948432
>Did Big Boss ever have agency or was it always his friends getting him into trouble up to the very last moment?
That's most games. A major plot point of games like Bioshock and Spec Ops: The Line is that you're mostly just doing what NPCs tell you.

Like every Metal Gear game has you being manipulated by other forces. Like it happens in EVERY game.

>>717949482
To be fair even if you lose track of it throughout the game his final monologue where he basically throws a tantrum at Ocelot and Big Boss gives you enough to infer all this.
On one hand I get that he'd be upset, on the other it's kind of deserved since he was in cahoots with Cypher behind Big Boss' back.

The real stinker here are the genuine red herrings that lead nowhere like Code Talker saying "Eyes on Kazuhira".

>>717949705
>he was in cahoots with Cypher behind Big Boss' back.
So was BB, people forget he didn't go to build the Zanzibar base during the events of V but returned to America to found Foxhound for Cypher.

Pipo Snake.. my beloved...

>>717949472
Isnt foxhound the highest codename and fox the second best one? Isnt that how it works in mgs3?

>>717949675
>legendary warlord character from a long running series being compared to would ya koindly
sad

but who's the hardest snake

>>717950205
Foxhound was the unit. Fox was the highest animal codename you could get assigned.

>>717949472
>>717950205
>>717950405
>Foxhound was the unit. Fox was the highest animal codename you could get assigned.
At the end of the game you get a "codename" based on how you played. It's not a lore thing it's just based on gameplay so they might be talking about that.

In which case yes Foxhound is the highest codename and Fox is the next. Again, not a lore or story thing about the in-game Foxhound unit.

>>717944152
venom enters the chat

>>717945280
you are just a retard dude

>>717950567
We are talking about the lore. Play MG2 they say Gray Fox is the only person to get the higest title in Foxhound which is Fox.

>>717950567
I keep finding it really funny how baby tier Foxhound is to get in MGS3 when compared to MGS2's Big Boss rank. 25 saves is way too lenient.

>>717950678
>creates a unit of mercenaries without any cause that sends people to die in the name of a figurehead leader.
Literally all the Boss despised about the Philosophers.

>>717944546
Big Boss wasnt that bad of a guy but he was too autistic about being a soldier and let himself be used by Kaz to create the most evil thing mankind created which is the war economy. He thought he was fighting the system. He was too autistic and someone had to put him down.

>>717950925
He didnt do any of that. He was used like a puppet. MK ULTRA'd All he wanted to do was save lives.

>>717951402
>He was used like a puppet. MK ULTRA'd
Just like the Boss who led her unit to death.

Why was Big Boss' MSF/Outer Heaven revolutionary? He just made his own PMC

>>717950925
Like half the cast of Metal Gear are just motivated over what they think was "the Boss's vision", which includes Big Boss and his nation without borders for soldiers.

Kind of obvious the Boss was just doing what her government told her to do and wasn't some grand mastermind with a "vision".

>>717951402
Peace Walker is the last true Big Boss game (not including Ground Zeroes) and he basically builds up an Army just like Venom does in Phantom Pain.

>>717944152
>he was a decent human being which can't be said about any other Snake
>Pipo Snake is decent but not a human being
heh

>>717951501
She knew America was evil but she still decided to give her life and her unit's life too to clean America's name. How can you be loyal to an evil country? The times may change but old ways die hard. She isn't good. She is grey at best and evil at worst. Given your life to clean the name of an evil nation should be evil.

>>717943350 (OP)
Arent they all the same guy?

>>717951559
Big Boss wanted his PMC's to effectively be recognized as a country of warriors I think. I guess Mother Base would've been the only PMC with nuclear strike capabilities? It would have also been the only PMC with nuclear weapons, beating out many countries in the arms race

>>717952082
Idk I still respect the Japanese and German soldiers of WW2

>>717951578
Peace Walker happened first canonically bro

Raiden isn't a snek

>>717952082
She didn't do it for America LMAO. She cared fuck all about nationalities. She did what her Philosopher handlers told her to do.

>>717952223
he is told at the beginning of MGS2's plant chapter that his codename is snake for the mission.

>>717952228
Wasn't she one too?

>>717952532
She was their agent like Eva.