Thread 718697204

there are daily threads dedicated to fighting games and rts games so this genre deserves its own thread

CS and console shooters, then by the time shooters went back to PC it was already a buried genre. Also infuriating to play when someone has control of the armors and weapons.

The problem with arena shooters is the "arena" part.
Actual level design >>>>> repetitive arenas that play the same regardless of layout

>>718697204 (OP)
Too difficult.
We need random spread, sliding and rng mechanics that let shitters land lucky hits.

>>718697886
>The problem with arena shooters is the "arena" part.
no its not
aerowalk is awesome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghaYN2-TD24

>>718697204 (OP)
same reason rock n' roll died
the plebs and zooms took over

>>718697204 (OP)
Is your new arena shooter exactly like Quake 3? Then there's no reason to switch to it. Is it different from Quake 3? Then it is unplayable shit not worth even looking at.
Nobody wants to play arena shooters as a genre. Everyone wants to play their specific arena shooter that they've poured the last two decades into whether that's Quake 3, Xonotic, Warsow or UT2k4.

The same people who cry about consolization don't want to git gud at PC-focused games

age of empires 2 has over 15000 players everyday and quake live has less than 500 players
this is so unfair

>>718697204 (OP)
Hyper casualized shooters like CS appealed to a wider audience that can't think spatially and feel more comfortable stopping to shoot vs flying through the sky at 300mph hitting other people flying through the air moving at 300mph. Shame really. Now zoomers think baby's-first-movement-tech additions to shit like Apex and COD are revolutionary. I don't get it. I want a new Quake.

I blame Half-life, once people started the linear narrative based campaigns, it was over for arena shooters. I've seen many a developer try to bring the Arena back, but it's just not the same, add match making into the mix and you got complete and utter death.

Arena shooters are fucking exhausting. Maybe its because im a boomer now but its requires a lot of mental focus and effort. The average gamer is a drooling retard that can barely handle a cod match without rage quitting

1v1 is dead. There are also 100000000 FPS games. Fighting games are only not dead because they haven't figured out how to turn it into Counter Strike or a battle royale.

>>718702589
It really kind of was. HL still had that arena DM multiplayer. Then Counter-Strike came and made shooters worse forever. HL2 did not launch with MP, had a gimmicky one released later, and that was that.

>>718702104
>Hyper casualized shooters like CS appealed to a wider audience

this and console shooters like Gaylo
i remember people laughing at it on PC because it was so fucking slow and dull

>>718697204 (OP)
>did
>died

>>718697204 (OP)
People just got tired of them. Happens to a lot of things. It's a huge poser genre these days, people like to pretend they were some great thing but no one plays them anymore. They have no relevance to modern shooters either. It was just a passing fad with no staying power.

>>718697886
Lmao what. People play dust2 24/7 and see no problem. Also look at assfaggots, they don't even have fucking maps. It's the same exact map every time.

>>718697886
Also brown brick hallways vs. 20km2 of beautiful natural landscapes.

>>718703102
>People just got tired of them. Happens to a lot of things
Yep, came here to post this. Genres and games have their time in the limelight then it's over.
People think their favorite thing should be popular by default and if it isn't then there is some sort of reason behind it. In reality, it is only time doing its thing.

Actual reason is they are boring and reptitive

>>718697204 (OP)
Trying to hit something at 190ms on 2002 Internet is gay. Hitting someone with three rockets and them still not dying is super gay.

>>718697204 (OP)
>"I'm a hardcore millennial gamer" starter pack

>>718703651
>>718703445
See >>718703203
Modern online gaming is peak autism where people play exact same shit on exact same maps every day. Fartnite and clones also have literally one fucking map.

mods like rocket arena 3 and other actual "fun" modes killed it. I played back in the early 2000's and I can tell you no one fucking enjoyed 1vs1. it has always been about defrag and clan arena/ra3. there is a reason team based shooters are booming. thats the only part of quake that worked in the long run.

>>718702772
That's just false. Having fun with friends in arena shooter is far less exhausting than modern online fps trash grinding. Just look at assfaggots/csgo fags with their """rating""" grinding. Like almost every conversation they have is about how their rating dipped and how they are mad about it or something. Literal mental illness compared to casual arena shooter matches.

Right, I will explain.

Arena shooters were a historical aberration. To keep things brief: back when the primary audience of multiplayer shooters were lonely kids with ADD, developers made games that focused on multiplayer deathmatches with "high skill ceilings"; that offered the player virtually nothing as a reward for mastering the game's mechanics and dominating other players besides said mastery and domination in itself.

Understand: this is only financially viable if your audience has a shitload of spare time to play your game and nothing else. But as people grow older, they begin to take on responsibilities and develop new interests; which means they have less time to play the same game over and over again - certainly, at least, for the sake of playing the game with no additional reward.

Long story short: as the median age of "people who like to play video games" became older, the industry began to develop games that both have lower skill ceilings, which means the gulf between the best and worst players in any given game is not as wide, which means that even when players lose, they do not lose so badly that they want to stop playing the game; which coincidentally means that the games are also significantly easier to casually pick up and play without a grown adult having to put a lot of energy into winning a match after coming home from a day's work; and also games where players can earn incremental rewards of all kinds during multiplayer. Eventually, the industry figured out that you can drive retention by controlling a player's progression, by controlling not merely the rate of the rewards but by controlling the way the game can be played itself. Then you can manipulate the player by putting emphasis on customization, not just in looks but in gameplay styles, and arena shooters are not conducive to unique player loadouts and stuff like that.

So older players play the easier shooters, and kids gravitate to whatever is popular.

>>718697204 (OP)
Any answer other than the industry shifting to consoles-first design for FPS games is missing the point.

At the same time, nobody really seems to know what an arena shooter fundamentally is, by definition. There's nothing all that different from Doom deathmatch to Quake III Arena other than the technology, yet most people refer to the latter when they talk about arena shooters. Duke 3D multiplayer, Heretic multiplayer, etc. are all "arena shooters" as well, unless you tell me that the term arena shooter only applies to multiplayer-only titles like Q3A and UT99, but then you would have to also say that Quake II, for example, is not an arena shooter, which is obviously ridiculous. The truth is, arena shooter is a meaningless umbrella term primarily referring to all deathmatch multiplayer shooters during the era where FPS games were made for PC. However, deathmatch still existed long into the 2000s and 2010s, just most FPS games were console-centric, so is really fair to say arena shooters died? They just evolved to be played on a controller because that's where the money is. If you say they died because Call of Duty isn't an arena shooter, despite being deathmatch-oriented, then you're saying what fundamentally makes an arena shooter isn't the deathmatching aspect, but the PC-oriented movement and combat, so even teamplay-oriented shooters could be an "arena shooter" if it has fluid, PC gameplay.

>>718704138
>I played back in the early 2000's and I can tell you no one fucking enjoyed 1vs1
maybe you didn't along with other trash players

>>718697204 (OP)
I respect Quake but UT was better

>>718704692
And really, why would a kid today want to play a harder game you need a mouse and keyboard for to get really good at, that is more frustrating, takes more skill, and takes up more of your time to master, that does not offer any rewards for beating everyone else; when that same kid could just play a different, easier game, with a controller, together with all his friends, where he can casually sit back and still have fun in a huge firefight between Eminem, John Wick, and himself dressed up as his favorite Ninja Turtle, equipped with the lightsaber he unlocked from the battle pass that is completely broken in gameplay terms but extremely fun to use. Another kid might want to easily kill everybody parachuting into the DMZ with his broken lightmachine gun with the range of a sniper rifle build. Still others have fun laying back and just messing around as Emma Frost, completely ignoring their teammates, as well as the payload. Or they prefer something asymmetrical like running around as leatherface or hiding in a lcoset from him. In all of these games, you don't need to put effort into the game in order to have fun if you don't want to, and even when others do, it does not ruin the fun that you are having.

Nobody cares about running for the rocket launcher anymore; that's too sweaty, and you can't even unlock any rewards.

>>718703993
>Fartnite and clones also have literally one fucking map.
There is more to do on one map than in Quake, theres also downtime and resource management

>>718706205
>downtime
in what sense

Reviving arena shooters requires their fans to actually play them and not just be stuck in an eternal loop of saying CONSOLES BAD CS BAD HALO BAD.

>>718705652
Kids play fortnite which probably has a higher skill ceiling than arena shooters when you look into the stuff they're doing with building. In fact fortnite more or less is an arena shooter, the classic arena shooter died due to not having an interesting game mode to pair with the gameplay, fortnite fixed this

I love Unreal Tournament and Quake but here's the deal with arena shooters: it's the most basic form of FPS + multiplayer. Just running around and shooting players on a map with the sole purpose of being the one with most kills. There's no map or team objective, just shoot.The meta is just learning when to pick up certain defense items and learning which weapon is the most effective depending on the map context/opponent placement and that just comes from lots of practice and memorizing map/item behaviour. There's no strategy, just constant learning, which to a new/casual player this is outright inacessible. Either learn everything asap or stay at the bottom of the scoreboard.

UT started to die out ever since the Tactical Ops mod came out, which is basically "we have CS 1.6 at home" but once CS became more popular it was game over for arena shooters. Team strategy is way more engaging and accesible than being individually skilled in some sci-fi arena bouncing all over the place. Also the fact that it's more "realistic" than the sci-fi arena shooters they were at the moment.

>>718697886
UT and Quake have both very distinct artstyles but I wouldn't say that the level design was bad in any of them, quite the contrary, the levels are the whole reason why those game worked.

I still play UT99 daily though, something about it is just right and the AI is insanely good.

>>718711692
>realistic
>CS
LMFAO, have you ever shot a gun? In real life the bullets go where your muzzle is pointed. CS bullets go wherever the fuck they want regardless of where your muzzle (or sight) is pointed. It is realistic for a paintball game I guess.

>>718711807
>videogames
>realistic
I knew someone would sperg out about the term realistic, that's why I used quotation marks. Compare UT/Quake to CS and tell me which game is more closer to reality. I'm not even talking about how real the bullet behaves.

>>718698009
weak, this is better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q76UNcuKSVY

>>718709128
Not constant firefights

>>718712415
>Compare UT/Quake to CS and tell me which game is more closer to reality
UT & Quake. They follow closest to reality. They just exaggerate reality. CS abandons reality and invents an alternate one where a projectile that explodes down a barrel with grooves cut to impart rotation on the projectile to stabilize it in flight and ensure it travels straight instead kinda just goes wherever with no relation to the path it traveled before exiting the muzzle. As if the bullets manifest themselves outside the barrel at peak velocity without having traveled down them. Summoned by some otherworldly wizard through multiple tiny portals around the gun. Truly a bafflingly absurd game with no relation to our own world. It is as if a developer asked a child, who has never seen or heard of a firearm, to loosely describe what a FPS is and they made that description.

>>718704930
I mean you could classify Halo as an arena shooter really.
Built for console, 2 weapons and slow. But played in an arena with pick ups.
Arena shooters died with halo