Thread 723498884

Why did it never reach the same status as Hollow Knight? It even got a proper sequel, unlike Hollow Knight

for me, a Hollow Knight enjoyer
>although the designs are good, the pixel art is bad
>platforming doesn't feel very satisfying
>quests are obtuse
>combat is mediocre
all these for the first game that I dropped after the bridge boss. Didn't bother with the sequel.

>>723498884 (OP)
It has great art but okay gameplay.

>>723498884 (OP)
It cost 10 dollars more

>>723499150
>combat is mediocre
This coming from a Hollow knight fan where the combat has less to offer.

>>723498884 (OP)
Because while the art and music are absolutely a 10/10, the game mechanically sucked: bosses were kinda boring and brainless easy, level design was boring and uninspired, and the story felt confusing for the sake of being confusing.

I've heard that the sequel is much better, probably playing it after I finish e33 and get the steel soul achievements in Silksong

>>723499517
to each their opinions, friend.
Hollow Knight feels more fluid to me and more enjoyable. If we can expand the topic a bit, Nine Sols has even better combat.

>>723498884 (OP)
If you played it then you know. It's more Dark Souls inspired, so it has a lot of lore, every item and powerup you find has a paragraph of lore, and the world was very mysterious and intriguing when I first played through it.
So in other words it's actually a fairly reading heavy game, if you want to get the most enjoyment out of it. Since most players don't care, they either miss an entire aspect of the game's appeal or never play at all.

Second, the gameplay is unconventional for the genre, being more slow and punishing. There's several mechanics at odds with well known genre staples, like pressing attack to grab onto a wall, or the particular way ledge grabbing works in this (very satisfying). It also suffers far more from poor variety in its powerups due to shit balance (sword hearts, spells).
Hollow Knight is closer to the elegant epitome of the genre. The combat is physical and precise. The balance and progression aren't perfect their either, but it mogs Blasphemous like all other metroidvanias in its amount of areas and content.
In other words it's simpler and cleaner in every way, more polished in the sense of broad appeal.

>>723499521
>and the story felt confusing for the sake of being confusing.
Isn't that the case for all Soulslike? I agree that the story in Blasphemous is a bunch of drivel but I find the story in all Soulslike to be drivel

>>723499639
Absolutely we can expand on the topic but I can't contribute on that topic because I'm yet to play Nine Souls.

Sure Hollow knight has fluid combat with excellent movement but it doesn’t offer much besides pressing X and using spells. Compared that to Blasphemous that offers a bit more in the combat with simple combos, parries and with a lot more variations in spells

>>723498884 (OP)
gameplay is shit

>>723500030
>blasphemous
more options but the combat itself is very shallowl, almost everyone dodges and punishes boss attacks in the in the exact same way. parrying is a dead end on bosses, the spells are so atrociously unbalanced that 90% the playerbase uses relatively bland ones
anemic if not borderline time wasting boss movesets that become damage sponges
>hollow knight
actual player expression and different ways to fight as its fluid
charms are INFINITELY better than rosaries
nail arts are actually good
boss movesets arent incredibly anemic

>>723499639
>HK has combat of its own, hitbox based, the best at its own specific style, excellent heal/soul mechanic
>75% of what nine sols combat consists of is just a worse sekiro with yet another shitty estus clone
i wouldnt agree with that
>>723501054
oh let me add another thing to the list, how could i forget
The estus clone in blasphemous is dogshit. Early game it just limits exploration and makes it so much worse to do something like Amanecidas early, but then as soon as you get some flasks it makes almost all bosses pathetically trivial, The 'Bleeding Heart' gamemode is such a vsat improvement to the gameplay its unreal

people DESPERATELY need to stop cloning estus. They suck at it every time

No fuckable waifu character?

>>723501054
>anemic if not borderline time wasting boss movesets that become damage sponges
Now that's blatantly false as the only damage sponge boss in the game is the giant snake from the DLC one.
>actual player expression and different ways to fight as its fluid
How? Dash through their attacks and what you can't dash through you jump over

>>723501649
>Now that's blatantly false as the only damage sponge boss in the game is the giant snake from the DLC one
in speedruns you have bosses taking as long as hollow knight boss speedruns when abusing a glitch to spam attacks so fast the games' speed slows down to a crawl
the boss HP in blasphemous compared to the potential DPS of the player other than overpowered spell spam is way higher overall
>>723501649
>How?
for something like NKG's diagonal dive into side dash, you see things like
>people walking under the first slashing upwards, jumping and pogoing the dash, dashing into another pogo
>people doing the above but with perfect timing to abyss shriek
>people jumping and pogoing the diagonal dash and getting on the perfect height for a shade soul as he dashes sideways so it hits the boss twice
>people charging a cyclone slash to glide towards him as he does his diagonal dash
>just doing neither of those and only landing like 1 or 0 hits as a pussy
or maybe his slash into uppercut
>people dashing sideways and doing abyss shriek / basic attacks
>people parrying the attack into abyss shriek
>people pogoing up and doing shade soul or a basic slash as he jumps up
>people rushing straight at the boss so he cancels it into a projectile attack

blasphemous enemies have nowhere near this level of dynamism or actual player choice, the actual answers to enemy attacks are shallow as fuck, with few exceptions like the floating face boss

>>723501649
>Dash through their attacks and what you can't dash through you jump over
You sound like you arent even aware you only get the i-frame dash at the last 20% of the game retard

>>723498884 (OP)
>>723498884 (OP)
>Why did it never reach the same status as Hollow Knight? It even got a proper sequel, unlike Hollow Knight
That last bit of bait aside, I think Blasphemous does a lot more to risk losing player buy-in, from the creepy Spanish Catholic aesthetic, to the obscure lore (Blasphemous is as guilty of the "Zanzibart" meme as any Soulslike), to the slow punishing combat.
And this may sound strange, because they are only a few years apart, but I feel like the market was positively glutted with Indie Metroidvanias by the time Blasphemous came out, to say nothing of Souls-inspired titles. Hollow Knight has been the de facto litmus test for every new indie Metroidvania pretty much since it came out. What was its competition? Ori? Salt and Sanctuary? Not exactly a stacked field.
All of that said, it's difficult to find a reviewer who had a negative overall opinion of Blasphemous.

>>723502358
>What was its competition? Ori? Salt and Sanctuary? Not exactly a stacked field.
this unironically still holds up in 2025
if anything Salt and Sanctuary and Rain World are STILL their fiercest competition after all this time

almost almost everyone else is railroaded as fuck with much shallower worlds and games in general
unironically the best competition would have been by far The Lost Crown if ubisoft wasnt atrocious at marketing a game and filled it with mandatory ubishit account

>>723502047
>when abusing a glitch to spam attacks so fast the games' speed slows down to a crawl
Abusing a glitch can cause a hole bunch of issues and I feel like it shouldn't be part of the discussion.
>>723502115
So you're given even less options to avoid their attacks for 80% of the game.

>>723499150
About sums it up. The atmosphere and theme are godlike (pun intended) but the art fails to deliver and the combat lacks.

>>723503403
the point specifically sounds abysmal for when thinking of it without glitches.
>HK without glitches well played boss takes 1 minute
>blasphemous boss with the highest DPS glitches takes 1 minute OR it takes 1 minute with the spell spam strategy that entirely removes the gameplay
>>723503403
if youre low IQ yeah, considering you think blasphemous defense is on the same level as HK's then that may be true

>>723502358
>risk
It was a kickstarter game. Of anything, it was the exact opposite given they had funds before development.

>>723502358
>That last bit of bait aside
It's not really bait, people lost their shit to Silksong. Everyone lost their shit, Steam couldn't handle the traffic, pirates told people not to pirate it, the industry lost their shit about the price for the game etc etc. Everyone lost their shit to something that was in development for over 6 years, for a expansion pack to a great game. They could have taken that time to actually make Silksong a sequel but instead it was just an expansion pack, meanwhile Blasphemous actually got a proper sequel in 3 years time so what the hell was team cherry doing all that time?

>>723503730
>blasphemous boss with the highest DPS glitches takes 1 minute OR it takes 1 minute with the spell spam strategy that entirely removes the gameplay
But again the bosses aren't as spongy as you think, there is only one true spongy boss and the only other boss I can think of that takes a while to kill are the two humans ones because the frame to hit them is smaller compared to other bosses

>>723499521
>I've heard that the sequel is much better,
the sequel is dumbed down and unironically worse. it even looks worse

>>723503943
>pirates told people not to pirate it,
you are a retard. pirates dont pirate because of the price. It would be pirated if it was 1$

>>723498884 (OP)
>gameplay is slower for both the character and the bosses
>Art style is relatively less marketable as it's bordering on grotesque despite how good it looks
It works it's themes well but I think it lacks the same marketability as HK, HK is very cutesy even when it comes to grotesque character design. Also, HK's gameplay is a lot more polished towards it being fun to play

>>723498884 (OP)
Because HK was astroturfed by reddit. Nothing ever has reached the peak of HK despite many metroidvanias surpasing it.. That being said, HK is a better game than B. It offers more and is more enjoyable to play moment to moment. Its not that hard.

>>723499521
It's harder than Silksong.

>>723499679
>unconventional
It just copied the original Dark Souls to the letter. Dark Souls is slow and clunky. 3 and Elden Ring are like 5x sped up.

I like both but Hollow Knight's combat is deeper despite its simplicity because the speed and freedom of movement allows for more interesting interactions. Blasphemous' combat is pretty shallow, the combos are irrelevant and many bosses don't even let you use the finishers because the attack windows are so short. Most of the time you want to be grounded to dodge in any meaningful capacity, while HK has more airborne options for both dealing damage and avoiding it. I can't really comment on boss movesets because even if Blasphemous bosses have like 3 attacks, HK bosses are also pretty limited in that department. It's just that HK is able to do more with those because of the movement system. I also think the charm system offers more than the rosary bead system since most of those are either useless or direct stat upgrades that you'll always want to take.

They're both good games and Blasphemous' feels more limited by design, despite the greater range of options it offers. HK is just more fun, like if you compare Crisanta to say, Pure Vessel they're not even close. Sierpes was also a joke which was awful because the design is amazing. Isidora was the only one I felt really made the most of the combat system

t. Did all HK bosses on radiant and all Blasphemous bosses without flasks

>>723499521
The sequel plays more like a standard Metroidvania and takes way less influence from Dark Souls.

>>723505162
Yet for Silksong they came out said
>Buy it, support these team for their hard work

>>723498884 (OP)
These PROUD trans-inclusive feminist activist-developers don't have the talent or passion to reach the same status as Hollow Knight. Blasphemous 2 is an abomination and not a proper sequel. Glad The Game Kitchen lost relevance.

>>723506886
>Glad The Game Kitchen lost relevance.
They made ninja gaiden ragebound

>>723499517
You're crazy if you think Blasphemous has more to offer with its combat than HK.

>>723506379
if you like it buy it has been in notes of pirated games for over 20 years

>>723507285
Yeah and they turned Kureha into an old woman. Something tells me the game didn't do so well.

>>723507285
Ragebound flopped, good riddance.

I feel like I want to like this series more than I actually do. I love the atmosphere and art style, but it feels like it doesn’t do that much with the premise. Every story beat is just “this guy prayed to the Miracle and it fucked him over then this other woman begged the Miracle for help and it fucked her over and then these other people asked the Miracle for a blessing and it fucked them over” like I get it already. It acts like the Miracle randomly distributes both blessings and curses, but it feels like it’s 99.99% the latter. I know about the High Wills and all that, but I just wish the story was a little more expansive.

>>723503943
I'm still not sure what part of that response is supposed to show that Silksong is not a "proper" sequel to Hollow Knight, as OP said. Because it took a long time to come out and doesn't have "2" in the title? It's not a serious claim.

>>723506291
>I also think the charm system offers more than the rosary bead system since most of those are either useless or direct stat upgrades that you'll always want to take.

>>723508061
It's a blatantly anti-christian game, why would God/The Miracle be shown in any kind of positive light? It's not like they're being dishonest either, it's called "Blasphemous" for a reason.

The only positive thing the miracle does is resurrect the Penitent One but even that was part of a cycle of things. On that note, the "good" ending was better than the "canon" one.

>>723508248
You know how Super Mario Galaxy 2 is just more of the first game and is basically an expansion pack. Well Silksong is the same regard which would be fine if not for the fact it took six fucking years to develop, six years to make a expansion pack. What the hell were they doing all that time?

>>723498884 (OP)
Janky, quite simply. HK immediately feels nice and smooth to play. HK's aesthetic also has more mainstream appeal. Not saying Blasphemous is bad but it's pretty obvious that HK is more normie/mainsteam/reddit/retard friendly.

Jump King Quest mogs them both

>>723508324
If the Miracle is so bad then why does the Penitent One continue his penance and sufferingm

>>723508324
just because a game revolves around church and faith, doens't mean its anti christian you moron. The reason for "christian' imagery was pictures of francisko de goya. The lore, story and ummm everything, has nothing to do with christian

>>723509225
Did you see the good ending? Well, spoiler warning:

The whole point of the "Penitent One" is to amass enough guilt to reach the first miracle (a throne atop a large hill of salt) on which he will make the final sacrifice and become the new leader of the Church. This religion was found by one of immense guilt so it is the currency of who is truly worthy.

If he dies, the miracle will resurrect him. Either he succeeds at climbing the salt hill and becomes the new leader of the church (good ending) or he is too pure i.e. didn't Blaspheme enough and is swallowed by salt hill (bad ending). Tis the will of the Miracle.

>>723508748
A fine mature older woman, I fail to see the issue

>>723498884 (OP)
Honestly kind of a pointless comparison, Blasphemous did as well as you would usually expect a new-IP Metroidvania to do, Hollow Knight is just one of those games that breaks out of it's genre's usual audience and slips into the mainstream, which never happens for just 1 reason. Honestly though part of it is probably just the characters designs and artstyle, the Knight is obviously a perfect mascot and Ari Gibson is godlike at making appealing and memorable little fanart spawners.

>>723499150
>the pixel art is bad
Does that just mean you don't like pixel art in general? Because that's fair enough, but Blasphemous sprites are objectively fantastic for the style they they're going for.

>>723508324
>>723509225
I hardly remember what the fuck happened in this game, but I think the high wills created the miracle to cause suffering unto the people, and consumed the devotion they felt for the divine like some sort of mana in the form of guilt, which sustained their existence. the high wills are an eldritch parasitic force unto humanity. if you want to interpret that as some sort of critique of religion, I can see it, but I don't think this is what the developers intended, they just wanted to make dark souls/berserk inspired fantasy game with catholic imagery.

>>723509445
The church is evil.
The pope is the devil. Just straight up the devil.
The canon ending is murdering god/the high wills who are a holy trinity.

The game is called "Blasphemous" for a reason.

>>723509225
Because he's religious and therefore a dumb dumb like everyone else in the game

>>723498884 (OP)
Blasphemous is very well known, and it's a very good game for what it's trying to achieve. Sequel is trash, if I wanted to play a generic metroidvania there's hundreds of them on steam already

>>723512007
You're not the first to say the sequel is bad in this thread, what's wrong with it?

>>723510316
what that has to do with Christianity? Do religion, church and le pope in FFX have anything to do with Christianity? No.

>>723512982
>what that has to do with Christianity?
A lot. Specifically Catholicism.

>>723513310
its inspired by christianity and its imagery. Its not about catholicism. theres a difference

I personally found it extremely pretentious.
The writing was a massive turn off.

>>723498884 (OP)
I played this for the first time last week. It's merely ok but not nearly as engaging as hollow knight in any aspect. I mean the only difficult boss in the entire game is the optional one in the crypt

>>723513698
No.

>>723498884 (OP)
I played it for 30 minutes and didn't enjoy the combat and platforming so I chunked it. All the lore and art in the world can't force me through what I feel to be a slog

>>723498884 (OP)
Just wasn't as fun to play. It was sorta like Owlboy, except where Owlboy wasn't fun AT ALL to play, Blasphemous was still a real game, it was just sorta fun.

>>723501054
If you equip the right set of charms you being literally immune to damage. I don' think they thought about the gameplay that much after release... Why should they? You want them to endlessly tinker with the balance like its some kind of live service. Fuck you.

>>723512312
i wouldnt exagerate as much as the others, but
they improved all the low bars, the worst aspects of the first game and all... But in turn it heavily downgraded what actually made it special and stand out

>>723514693
>. I don' think they thought about the gameplay that much after release
They absolutely did because they had to balance a combination of charms several times after launch. I

>>723514693
> I don' think they thought about the gameplay that much after release... Why should they? You want them to endlessly tinker with the balance like its some kind of live service. Fuck you.
what the fuck are you smoking?
if anything blasphemous' balance issues come from things being mechanically boring, you cant fix that with a patch

HK's charms require investment and you still need to play a facetank build very effectively, you cannot W+M1 double damage bosses.

>>723498884 (OP)
>Why did it never reach the same status as Hollow Knight
>Pixel art
>every character in the game is forgettable and shit
>the story is weak
>the soundtrack is generic
> the combat is boring and slow

>>723498884 (OP)
Why did it never reach the same status as Hollow Knight?
>Pixel art
>Combat is very slow and boring
>music is generic
>the story is shit
>everyone from the cast is pretty much forgettable and boring

>>723515983
>the story is shit
And the one in hollow knight isn't?

>>723501339
Chrisanta, and the one they imported from Bloodstaind. And the sister.

>>723498884 (OP)
Explain the story in a way that anyone can understand without skimping out on the details or looking anything up. You fucking CAN'T.

>>723516105
>And the one in hollow knight isn't?
it not shit because all the characters are memorable the villain is memorable and the story is easy to understand.

>>723498884 (OP)
The sequel killed any interest in the lore or a broader thematic interest by turning into a modern political manifesto, and the gameplay while competent wasn't good enough to stand out it's own merits outside of that thematic/lore interest.

>>723506886
Basically this, combined with the mediocre gameplay everyone else mentioned.

>>723499150
the movement in the game is insanely sluggish and shit feeling and the level design is trash too.