Thread 724034162

Is this the perfect illustration of how much more important writing is to an RPG than gameplay? Literally everyone agrees this is just backtracking through hallways simulator and yet it's still considered THE best mario RPG because of its writing.

the combat in the gamecube version is better than 99% of RPGs ever made

writing is just part of "art" the art is good many such weeb cases

And then for some utterly incomprehensible reason they made Sticker Star

>>724034162 (OP)
>it's still considered THE best mario RPG because of its writing
it's debatable
PM64 is a much tighter experience, if a bit safe. TTYD is sprawling and brings a lot of new ideas to the formula, and it has more misses as a result. Weirdly enough I'd compare them to Portal 1 and 2 in that way. I think if you prefer the "less perfect" of the two, it's because there are specific things about it you liked, backtracking notwithstanding.

>>724037632
Sticker Star is better than this gay trannyslop.

>>724038857
Shut up Tanabe.

>>724034162 (OP)
It has better writing and gameplay than Disco Elysium.

>>724034162 (OP)
>writing roles makes a role playing game

I SURE FUCKING HOPE SO!!!

>>724034248
This, the audience + style + action command system is absolutely incredible and shouldn't be discounted

>>724034162 (OP)
>>724034162 (OP)
the best mario RPG is the very first one on SNES. every single entry since has been trying to hit that high and being unable to. every paper mario game is awful, the other handheld RPGs like superstar saga and bowsers inside story are all meager attempts at capturing the greatness of super mario RPG on the SNES.

I noticed Paper Mario threads die super early nowadays with barely anyone posting in them, when they used to regularly get more than that. What happened to the fandom on here?

>>724042995
>fandom
go back to tumblr

>>724042995
Eeeh I still see like dedicated threads over Goombella and Vivian and this bitch in anons pic >>724038843 and usually those threads have the real discussion, fags like OP just bitching about "muh backtracking" are usually bad faith threads

>>724043352
You probably also think reddit spacing exists.

>>724042995
the three newer games happened and you know that.
Sticker star was not good amd while color splash and origami king fix it up a bit they are middling at best.
series needs to go back to its basics and start over.
plus the TTYD remake got enshittified by NoA being antiwhite.

>>724043354
>coombait good
>discussion on gameplay vs writing BAD
classic /v/

>>724043732
It's moreso that surface-level engagement with positive sentiment is more likely to engender interesting and complex on-topic discussion than a moderately more germane and eloquent contrarian who doesn't actually have a point to make. There's no earnest response to OP that is worth making because they already indicated they don't give a shit. The earth is salted.

>>724043596
I miss the old Paper Mario threads back in the day in the early 2010s, before Sticker Star came out. Everyone ignored SPM and we'd all have comfy discussions about the first 2 games. Now you can't even have that with zoomers starting tribal wars between the 2 games and bringing up backtracking all the time. I legit did not hear any complaints about the backtracking until the 2020s.

>>724044192
Even as a child I was aware of the backtracking. Absolutely hated replaying the game because the backtracking in chapter 4 was always "that part" in my mind. It's a completely valid complaint and by far the biggest issue the game actually has.

>>724034162 (OP)
it helps massively that encounters are dodgeable
I remember dropping it halfway because the pit gets impossible after a while (enemies start hitting you for 8 each while you do like 2 damage. whizzerds are serious bullshit only autists can superguard)

>>724034162 (OP)
>ttyd
>better than pm64
lol

>>724043423
>>724043423
>strawmans
>doesn't deny being from tumblr

>>724041836
>final fantasy with a mario skin
smrpg sucks and its defenders are retarded

>>724034162 (OP)
Gamecube kiddies were the ones constantly uplifting it as the best Mario RPG. Real ones always preferred SMRPG or PM64 or Superstar Saga.

>>724044192
>SPM
to this day I still don't know why they dropped the kino turn-based action-command combat

>>724034162 (OP)
It's one of the most overrated games in existence.

Super Paper Mario was arguably a better example if you still consider it an RPG. The combat is boring shit, but everything else about it is pure SOVL. It even looks quite good by modern standards despite being a waggletoaster game.

>>724034162 (OP)
>this is just backtracking through hallways simulator
it's the beginning of one chapter everyone in the community agrees is bad. come on man.

>>724044808
Glitz Pit is the chapter everyone loves, and it's full of tedious bullshit

>>724044808
It's more than one chapter. A ton of areas in TTYD are straight lines that you go through more than once.
t. literally just finished the remake a few weeks ago

>>724034162 (OP)
Well I mean the combat is also just simple but compelling too. Backtracking might be a pretty big part of this game, but it doesn't really matter much because each setting doesn't stick around long enough to really get old, and the enemies and writing are varied enough to keep you interested for any particular chapter. TTYD toes the line often with doing something too much or for too long but never really gets around to crossing it which is why it's regarded so highly. I'd say chapter 2 and 4 are probably the ones most associated with coming a little too close to that line though.

>>724044908
you don't backtrack in that chapter.

though I can understand if people think the chapter is dull. to be fair though every paper mario's third chapter is like that.

>>724044920
no it's not. you backtrack literally once in the whole game.

>>724044607
You never played smrpg

>>724044980
The first half of chapter 7 is backtracking to every other chapter

>>724045213
Yes. Chapter 7 is the chapter I was referring to, and I also said it only happens once in the whole game which it does. As I said above "it's the beginning of one chapter everyone in the community agrees is bad. come on man."

>>724034162 (OP)
Super Paper Mario had an even better story but the schizophrenic gameplay filtered a ton of people who played it. Checkmate

>>724044192
Retard, SPM was fucking based
Yeah it wasn't an RPG but everything it tried it did extremely well
Don't compare it to shitter star or any of the subpar PM entries that came after

>>724044980
>you backtrack literally once in the whole game.
someone hasn't been doing sidequests then

>>724045391
motherfucker if you're doing sidequests then you're choosing to backtrack. they're optional for a reason.

>>724034162 (OP)
People don't really give a shit about gameplay in general, as long as it's serviceable it's good enough
PCfags are always crying about consoles holding games back, not because of gameplay, but just graphics
Half-Life? Mediocre as an FPS, everyone loves it because of its cinematic presentation
Halo? Multiplayer shenanigans are the only reason it's remembered fondly yet some would like to pretend otherwise
Dark Souls? It's not even the original rollslop, it's just a more generic version of Demon's. Buggy, unfinished mess.
Last of Us? Everyone knows how most anons feel about this series but normalfags love it.
Pokemon? World's most barebones JRPG franchise
Games don't need a lot of mechanics, level design, well designed combat or anything like that. Gacha games and other dopamine injections like Megabonk and Vampire Survivors prove that gameplay isn't really all that important.

You literally have to go from twilight town to creepy steeple/vice versa like what, 5 times in that chapter? There's an entire chapter where you just keep going from one end of a train to the other and then back again. Having to go all the way back to the top of hooktail castle to get the ultra stone. Even more minor shit like getting the sun and moon stone and then going all the way back to the beginning of petal meadows to actually use them. Etc., etc., etc.
Constant backtracking throughout this game. Anyone saying otherwise is huffing some extreme copium.

>>724045471
>they're optional for a reason
Sidequests in games shouldn't be a chore to play, they should be fun and TTYD kinda falters at that
>>724045483
>Half-Life? Mediocre as an FPS, everyone loves it because of its cinematic presentation
Moron, HL1 and 2 are revolutionary FPS and are top of the top. Just because you prefer shit like nu-Doom doesn't mean they are "mediocre".
>Halo? Multiplayer shenanigans are the only reason it's remembered fondly yet some would like to pretend otherwise
No? Halo has a pretty great campaign until the recent games, this is as stupid as saying people only remember Doom because of Plutonia
>

>>724044980
It's not about backtracking, it's about being boring. Chapter 6 is all backtracking but it isn't boring.
>>724045151
Yes I did, and it sucks.

>>724045616
chapter 6 is actually one of the most boring chapters in ttyd. just because it's a funny chapter doesn't mean it's fun.

>>724045151
SMRPG imo doesn't feel like Mario at all, it's like Kingdom Hearts where you have Disney characters in grim anime land and it looks really fucking weird
Mario & Luigi games probably get the closest to feeling like they're based on the Mario franchise and even then there's a lot of weirdness more comparable to Wario Land/WarioWare

>>724045729
It doesn't feel like Mario because the Mario setting wasn't entirely a thing yet.

Games like Mario & Luigi would do such a good job of fleshing out the universe that games in the past just feel different.

>>724045471
>just ignore 50% of the game
holy shit what is this cope

>>724045702
ok person wrong about everything

>>724045593
>revolutionary FPS
But the gameplay is considerably watered down from what came before it. Most of what's revolutionary about HL is the story focus and presentation.

>>724045391
>>724045593
>>724045979
Technically speaking if we're going to include side quests then we need to acknowledge that PM64 is also massively bloated with backtracking. Mail questline alone would make you re-visit every location multiple times.

>>724046089
>the gameplay is considerably watered down from what came before it
In what sense? Is it less deep than Doom or Wolfenstein? No. You can argue it has less mechanics than Build games but that makes sense because Build games are far more based on exploration and secrets whereas Half-Life is more linear, but that isn't "watering down", it's a different perspective. There's certainly a lot of revolutionary focus in the storyline but Half-Life has always been equally revolutionary in the gameplay, be it the first game with actual allies that can help you and its deep AI with smell and complex relationships to other enemies or the second one with physics and extremely improved partner AI (at least from Episode 1 onwards), etc.
>>724046163
All Paper Mario games are bloated with backtracking, that's the way the franchise is which I can understand why many dislike that. You go play Mario & Luigi if you want a more linear RPG experience with cool side content

>>724046285
>play M&L PiT
>expected shroob castle to be just the halfway point
>expected them to use the cobalt star to take over the present and to have to revisit all the shroob-dominated locations in the present
>the transformed toads that were having their vim sucked out are still tied up when you clear their respective areas
what a fucking letdown that was

>>724034162 (OP)
>yet it's still considered THE best mario RPG
64 was still better.