Thread 725270818

>estimated budget of 60M USD
>sales are 13M USD

Vampire: The Masquerade — Bloodlines 2 is a confirmed FLOP. The IP will now be dead once more because it is constantly mishandled by Paradox. Nothing but visual novels await this cursed franchise. Press S to spit.

https://gameworldobserver.com/2025/11/07/swedish-analysts-have-estimated-the-production-budget-of-bloodlines-2-at-62-8-million

cant believe sequel released 20 years after the fact by none of the original devs sucked

>>725270818 (OP)
>totally unexpected

Also fuck Paradox

I doubt that if anyone played the original for the first time right now would find it worth much.

>>725270818 (OP)
>~12 hour game
>~6 hours as Phyre
>~6 hours as Fabien
>DLC with ~3 hours as Benny
>DLC with ~3 hours as Ysabella
>Playing as your protagonist unironically has less content than playing as other characters
What did they mean by this?

>>725270818 (OP)
>KWAB
Well, I can't change the ending and save Ryong the prince's girl.
It's nice to go broke, faggots

>>725271006
Do you have this shit on constant copy and paste? See it in every thread.

>>725270818 (OP)
>spend 2 whole fucking years adding the fabien segments
>literally not working on anything else but that the entire 2 years
>scramble post-launch for a patch that makes all fabien segments skippable
>2 whole fucking years working on something you need to remove from the fucking game in a patch
What do you call this type of game design?

>>725271106
>What do you call this type of game design?
Cost sunk fallacy aka the Bioware method.

>>725270818 (OP)
S
They made a fucking walking simulator with hermaphrotdite character options and faggots and stronk wahmen and tried to sell it as an RPG and they cannnot even answer the question "is the RPG is the room with us?"

>>725271006
This is retarded. You do not play nearly 6 hours as Fabien. Maybe half that? At best. And in an upcoming patch they said they're gonna make his sections skippable, too.

>>725270818 (OP)
Grifts off its predecessors name. It was always going to flop.

>>725271167
>And in an upcoming patch they said they're gonna make his sections skippable, too.
>>725271106

Paradox fucked themselves when they committed to VtMB2 and got stuck with the bill after finding out the Kickstarter-backed scammer dev studio were just grifters. Parajew will likely never dip their toes in cRPG market again and stay in their Grand Strategy lane.

60M is kind of crazy low budget for a game that has been in development across two studios for ten years.

That would likely mean that TCR's version of the game cost like 20-30 million. Probably closer to 20.

>>725271167
That doesn't address the issue of Phyre having no fucking content either. Whole game's shorter than a jeet's dick. The DLC won't fix that either because you play as OTHER FUCKING CHARACTERS AGAIN!

>>725270818 (OP)
>Bloodlines 2 is a confirmed FLOP
Did anyone think there was any doubt about this, though?

Well, at least they released it.

>>725271252
They could have cancelled it entirely but they decided to have pre-orders with the announcement. Those retards accidentally caused paradox to commit to this

>>725271106
>>725271239
To be clear, when they added Fabien to the game, they basically restructured the entire plot around him. You have to remember that originally Safia was a different character named Cemile. The motivation that Safia has in the current version of the game only really exists because Fabien was created/recreated as a Malkavian wannabe detective from the 1920s. That entire 1920s plotline, the rebar killer, all that stuff didn't exist until the Fabien rewrite.

The sections where you play as Fabien primarily exist to make the game a walking sim. They felt that the game was too action oriented, so decided to use Fabien as a way to rework the pacing of the game and story.

The issue is that Fabien's sequences aren't super great when you're on your 5th playthrough. So they are working on general improvements including (they haven't figured out the exact implementation yet) letting you skip Fabien's dreams when replaying the game. Because they are a pacing issue when replaying over and over again.

>>725270818 (OP)
I wonder how much of the bullshit could have been avoided if Paradox didn't mandate it be called Bloodlines 2. TCR outright they did so because "they were told to". What if it was instead title Vampire: the Masquerade - Nomad or something?

>>725271417
No, Paradox was in the process of canning VTMB2 when they were approached by Sumo/TCR with a pitch for how they could reboot VTMB2 and get it finished with a very low budget. TCR got the gig because they were willing to do it very cheaply. It's the same reason Climax UK got the Silent Hill Origins gig after the US team completely shat the bed with their version. The assets were handed to the UK team, they were given basically no budget, and told to make it work.

>>725271417
>Those retards accidentally caused paradox to commit to this
I think HSL was fully aware of it AND counted on that protecting their project. What they didn't account for was just how crazy Paradox turned out to be.

>>725271501
>Sumo/TCR
which begs the question of how much tcr actually wanted to be involved or were they forced by their owner. mind you, tcr bought back their independence while bloodlines 2 was in development.

>>725271445
It would make very little difference. It's impossible to avoid the fact that the game is structurally beat for beat based on Bloodlines 1. Everything from the sabbat apartments to the tower downtown where you meet to the prince to the climax of the game being confronting the prince who wants to open the box.... shortly after meeting with Damsel. It's like the Tron Legacy of VTM games. It hits so many beats from the original.

>>725271252
They could have gone to a competent studio instead of whoever showed up first on their doorstep for the cheapest possible price.
It ended up to be more expensive and time consuming in the end. Absolute morons at the top with no clue about game development and they even admitted that they are not competent at their job before release.

the budget had to be higher than that. Maybe the chinese room's version but the game was in development for much longer than that.

>>725271106
>>725271239
I don't think the Fabien segments were bad. They had bad elements about them, like for instance that they gave you 4 vampire powers that technically worked like your combat powers, but dialogue oriented, But there was no chance to make a mistake. No opportunity to cast disguise on someone and have that go nowhere, and obviously speaking to items can only be used on the important items, So instead of you figuring shit out, you get 4 keys, and each situation has 1 lock that fits with one of those 4 keys and the other 3 won't even be selectable. wow, thrilling.
The city was also way to fucking huge to have him walk across it, even with speed-up. I think putting Fabian in was the right choice, but they needed a bigger budget and more people to improve the rest of the game as well.
>>725271350
As many have said: The biggest flaw is that this is called "Bloodlines 2", and BL1, was kind of an immersive sim RPG type deal.
If they just called this game: "Vampire: The Masquerade: Sword of Caine" and made clear that this is a story heavy action combat game, and not a full immersive sim RPG like Bloodlines, everyone would have said: "yeah, it's okay, 6, maybe 7 out of 10 if you like the vibe, not amazing, but also not the worst". But making it a bloodlines game comes with expectations. Expectations they can't possibly meet with a game stuck in development hell for so long.

>every single level is just reused assets from the HSL build
>so is every character
what the fuck did chinese room even do?

>>725270818 (OP)
>directly linking to the article

Fuck off, shill.

>>725271106
Being a coddled middle-class-born piece of shit who never had (and never will) pay the consequences of his own fuck ups.

>>725270912
Some of original devs were working on Bloodlines 2, then Paradox closed the studio and canned the game only to later give it to walking sim the studio.
>>725270818 (OP)
At this point I believe that original hsl bloodlines 2 would have been way better, despite having shitton of doubts about it, I mean starting as thinblood sound gay, but being elder who can be mogged by ghoul and regular swaps from game into on rail walking sim are even gayer.
>>725271652
>what the fuck did chinese room even do?
Wrote the story, release bloodlines 2 is chr story on hsl assets. Consider it high quality mod.

>>725271106
its only skippable on the second playthrough.

>>725271652
>what the fuck did chinese room even do?
Remember all these videos of Karens showing their day in tech companies where they just do coffee breaks and chat with co-workers? That.

>literally every single review says the Fabien sections bring this game down several points in score
>the shill is STILL here trying to gaslight everyone about how beloved Fabien is
Good lord that's funny

>>725271560
Old rumours (who had real no reason to lie) said that Sumo held a gun to TCR's head and told them they were doing it. The current situation is more complex. Freshly independent TCR badly need financial security, and Paradox paying them to work on Bloodlines 2 more is financial security whether it's DLC or free updates.

It would be highly uncharacteristic for Paradox to abandon Bloodlines 2. (Outside of DLC obligations.) But to be fair, singleplayer story-driven games are really outside of Paradox's wheelhouse. They are used to live service games that can undergo major post-release design pivots in response to feedback. It's a lot harder and more contentious to rework the design of a game like Bloodlines 2.

That said, if you look at the recent TCR newsletter:
>Thanks all, it’s been quite the journey, and we hope to continue it one way or another!
TCR clearly want to keep working on the game. One of the game's design leads said that he wants to improve how stealth works, and has been advocating for the player to be able to stealth through quests ever since he joined the company. So you are probably going to see some significant quest design reworks, some significant retooling of parts of the game that people are unhappy with.

However, these efforts are limited by the game's financial prospects to some degree.

I do wanna point out that the original Bloodlines was a huge financial bomb. So much worse than 2. Yet you have people who actually argue that Activision were wrong for cutting Troika off.

>>725270818 (OP)
>estimated budget of 60M USD
Just the TCR version or does it add the HSL one too?

all part of the plan to destroy western culture from within

good.
this kind of game has to perish from existence

>>725271436
>The issue is that Fabien's sequences aren't super great when you're on your 5th playthrough
I think you mean on your first playthrough. They're literally just walking through the empty and pointless city block.

>>725271594
I heard somewhere that Sumo Digital took on some part of the dev costs for TCR's version. It also likely doesn't factor in marketing costs for the HSL version and stuff like that.

>>725271883
>It would be highly uncharacteristic for Paradox to abandon Bloodlines 2
Magna Mundi
East v West
Runemaster
That shitty Sims ripoff
Imperator
>but anon I don't know what any of that is!
So why are you trying to talk about what Paradox will or will not abandon?

>>725271924
>talk to Katsumi
>Katsumi says she will help me but she wants Dale's recipe book in return
>walk to apartment
>hit interact button on 2-3 books until you find the right one
>go back to Katsumi
>now she tells you the information
I still can't believe this section was actually in the game.

>>725271728
>high quality mod.

>>725271898
The problem here is that it's all done by the same fucking people.
Instead of them getting permanently blackisted from the industry after a fuckup like in literally in EVERY SINGLE other craft they just get shuffled around.

>>725271652
The final game is a mixture of reused and new assets. There was no Chinatown in HSL's version. Most of the environments from HSL's version were re-set-dressed from scratch. The characters are a mixture of old and new. Characters like Ysabella are completely new. So is Ryong. Safia is a hybrid of various other characters from HSL with new TCR work.

>>725272103
>Characters like Ysabella are completely new
You don't fucking say, as if we couldn't tell she was woke shit inserted later

>>725271797
Those aren't leaked. Paradox have been allowing devs to post their work on ArtStation. It's actually pretty nice of them.
https://www.artstation.com/search?sort_by=date&query=bloodlines%202

>>725271863
Funny you should say that because Eurogamer's biggest complaint was that you didn't play as Fabien in the 1920s for the entire game.
>Nevertheless, through Fabien you get a chance to see and experience the world and characters from a different perspective, which works well, and when you jump back in time even further, from the present day to 1920s Seattle - dressed as it is in all the glitz and glamor associated with the Roaring Twenties - it's even better. It's only a shame this sepia-coloured era isn't used more than for a few enclosed scenes. What I wouldn't have given to get away from the unchanging chunk of Seattle that the game overuses more often.
>Fabien's presence lifts the experience, then. Ronan Summer's voice work is the stand-out performance of the game, especially when you use Fabien's powers to animate furniture and talk to a horny filing cabinet, say, all of which Summer provides the voices for. And the performance work across the game is a high point, so that's no small compliment. From the stinging rebukes of old lady Mrs Thorn (Bethan Dixon Cate) to the wisecracking sarcasm of the nosferatu Tolly (David Menkin), the characters are almost all performed brilliantly. They're a real strength of the game, though why some of these excellent secondary characters stand apart from the main story, locked in place at their static locations, I don't know. It's a shame not to use them more.
Which is an interesting thought. Maybe they should have made Seattle Noire with vampires.

>>725271006
>fabien
Initially designed as tutorial popup. Later reworked into a character with some retarded plot thrown in.
>your protagonist
Last moment addition to the game.

>>725272196
>What I wouldn't have given to get away from the unchanging chunk of Seattle that the game overuses
Yes, like in the other Fabien sections

>>725272089
>same fucking (((people)))

>>725272086
It have it's own proffessional voice acting, story, cutscenes, gameplay mechanics but still uses game engine and assets.
Yes it's a high quality mod.
If this was released as mod to hsl version everyone would cream their pants about quality.
>>725272129
>, as if we couldn't tell she was woke shit inserted later
NTA but VTM is quite woke, V5 that Bloodlines 2 is based on is turbo woke, hrl version was going to be woke as fuck, you started as opressed minority™ thinblood. Game would be super woke either way, only diference is if it have rpg mechanics or is walking sim.

>>725271896
It's ambiguous. It's likely the total dev budget that Paradox have put in over the past 10 years. Bloodlines 2 is technically AAA, but it's not an accident that Bloodlines 2 is only dubbed into English or that the sidequests are Skyrim radiant quest tier. All of the budget was funneled directly into the main quest, into one set of actors recording in English.

>>725272336
>the version no one ever got to see would have been woke too!
Still not buying your shitty game

>>725271898
Avowed was good tho

>>725271924
>They're literally just walking through the empty and pointless city block.
Dude, The Chinese Room invented the walking sim. This is them in their goddamn element. Their greatest contribution to videogames as a genre is holding W while someone narrates in your head. (But at least Dear Esther didn't have backtracking.)

>>725272363
>Bloodlines 2 is only dubbed into English

I did not know this. Man they really cheaped out where they could.

>>725272335
Indeed, or same tribe to be more precise.
It's not about merit.

>>725272363
>Skyrim radiant quest tier
Hey now, let's not get it twisted. These devs wouldn't even be competent enough to implement randomized fetch quests. All the side fetch quests are designed by hand. "Go deliver a package" is the absolute zenith of TCR's skill in designing gameplay

>>725270818 (OP)
GO WOKE GET BROKE
FUCK YOU TRANNIES

>>725271957
>Imperator
You mean Rome: Imperator? The game that received 11 patches in 2019, 7 patches in 2020, and 5 patches in 2021? All the other games you mentioned were cancelled before release, right?

>>725272537
Now look up how many patches EU4 received. You have never heard of Paradox before they released a game by your favorite shitty walking sim dev

>>725271957
If Imperator counts than so does Sengoku, but you're wrong. I do miss Runemaster.

>This does not include marketing expenses, which would increase the budget.
lol

>>725272336
Speaking of the thinblood stuff, that was a huge part of TCR's version originally because Fabien was a thinblood and would not shut up about it.

>>725272030
I hate these parts so much. Everything with Fabian should've been a cutscene as it would've been more interesting or they should've done something like Swansong. Conversations with skill checks to test the detective skills.

>>725272429
To be fair, none of TCR's games are dubbed. They don't outsource their voice recording. It's all done in-house with their own directors and stuff. But most AAA productions will bring in outside teams to do different language dubbing. Here they skipped that. There are so many things in Bloodlines 2 that are clearly just budget constraints. The lack of some choices is obviously just someone saying, "No, only 10% of players will pick that, you can't have the money to do it."

It's a pity. It's a miracle that Paradox agreed to the Fabien delay. But that was probably because playtesters hated thinblood Fabien.

>>725272714
>TCR totally wanted to make branching choices but those dang execs told them there was no budget!
A new cope every day
They spent 4 years literally just making 10 Fabien sections

>>725272596
I'm sorry, but Bloodlines 2 getting 20+ patches over 2-3 years would be incredible. Currently they're only committed to patches throughout 2025 and 2026. Their contractual obligations probably end with the second DLC in Q3 2026.

>>725272596
EU4 made constant money through DLC and an active and autistic playerbase that bought it all. It's a cashpig so of course Paradox would support that. VTMB2 is not the same and will be dropped as soon as it can be.

>>725272783
I think a lot of TCR's time was just spent getting the basics of game systems. Remember, they only ever made walking sims.

>>725272363
Paradox bought World of Darkness from CCP specifically to release Bloodlines 2. Technically I'd add that to the cost of the game as well.

>>725272392
I'm not advetising, I'm just pointing out that you complain at wrong stuff.
Either version of bloodlines 2 would be woke as fuck, it's source material is turbo woke. Pic very much related.
Bloodlines 1 was 2004 version woke.
>>725272624
>Speaking of the thinblood stuff, that was a huge part of TCR's version originally because Fabien was a thinblood and would not shut up about it.
Thinblood stuff was big part of V5, this is why all thinblood bullshit was in main rulebook, while having nothing about elders or sabbat. V5 focused hard on thinbloods including giving them alchemy cuz no real disciplines. In previous editions best thinbloods could get was dedicated supplement nobody would buy because who would want to play as fucking thinblood.
Hsl just went with curent source material.

>>725272982
>the original was woke too!!!!
Not buying your shitty game

>>725272980
>Paradox bought World of Darkness from CCP specifically to release Bloodlines 2.
even putting bl2 aside that purchase was such a blunder

>>725272783
Fabien's sequences were recycling assets and content from the Malkavian DLC. So much about why Bloodlines 2 is the way it is comes down to really harsh budget and scope constraints.

This is Sarah Longthorne's resume.
https://sarahlongthorne.com/resume
>Writer on crit-path content, covering cutscenes, branching conversations, ambient VO and more across the game. Lead writer for Lou Graham, Ryong Choi, Safia Ulusoy, Benny Muldoon, Ysabella Moore and several unannounced characters. Acted as lead writer across the game for a few months between the departure of TCR’s founder and former Creative Director Dan Pinchbeck and the arrival of current Narrative Director Ian Thomas.
>Workshopped story beats and narrative issues with the wider narrative team, drawing upon reference material and engagement with the community — and working within often immovable parameters — to seek character-true, lore-rich and tone-appropriate solutions that deepen the story, empower the wider team and make the best possible use of our medium where able.
>Presented and iterated on feedback from studio leadership, the wider team, the publisher and other IP stakeholders.
>Designed and implemented narrative systems that complemented the IP, made best use of existing content and provided players with a more variable, bespoke experience within set budgets and constraints.
>Collaborated with design on the conceptualisation of optional and side content.
>Provided feedback and direction to voice actors in the booth.
>Took part in player-facing comms and provided a direct avenue for player relations.
Read it carefully. "working within often immovable parameters". "Made best use of existing content". "Within set budgets and constraints". Everything about this points towards TCR being forced to keep costs down as much as possible.

>>725272970
They didn't have to make any gameplay, they took it all from the existing version when they were brought on

>>725273175
No, TCR built their own version of the game mechanics from the ground up. Clearly inspired by what HSL did, but they don't reuse any code or anything. It's all completely new.

>>725273241
>they reused literally all assets but totally not the gameplay

>>725273121
There are hints in the game files about the original DLC structure. Stuff relating to Fabien's quests in the game is labeled "The Malkavian". So the way I understand it, originally there was this side character in the game, a Malkavian detective. There was a planned story DLC set in the 1930s where you would play as him. This DLC was chopped up and regurgitated into the Fabien sequences, and the character of Fabien was evolved into merging with this Malk detective character.

>>725270818 (OP)
No... make it more...
...psssssshhhhhh...

>>725273121
>Everything about this points towards TCR being forced to keep costs down as much as possible
Make sense. HSL was making proper rpg, stuff that cost money and were quite close to finishing the game, only for paradox to axe it.
A lot of moneys was wasted on it so TCR had to stitch whatever game they could with alredy existing assets on low budget because game alredy costed too much.

I will never understand why the shill thinks "originally, this game was structured differently!" is an argument, when the game as it came out is utter shit and everyone wants to skip all Fabien dialogue

>>725272797
>Their contractual obligations probably end with the second DLC in Q3 2026.
Too bad their DLC design is fucking retarded too. More content that isn't even for fucking Phyre. More Fabien-style shit twice in a row that they're charging for, at the same time they're scrambling to make Fabien shit skippable! LMAO!

>>725273407
You know for a fact Paradox is making them cut the DLC down as much as possible because they don't wanna waste even more money on DLC for a game that sold 40k copies

>>725273329
We know right from the start that all the code HSL had done and all the writing and voice acting and stuff was being tossed. All that was kept was visual assets. TCR have their own fork of Unreal Engine, their own scripting language, and stuff like that. The TCR version of Bloodlines 2 is very different tech-wise. And while you can see how HSL's version inspired theirs mechanically, there's no shared animations, there's no shared UI stuff, no shared mechanical stuff where it's 1:1. It's just very different.

>>725273507
>you can see how HSL's version inspired theirs mechanically
So this was a lie:
>>725273241
>TCR built their own version of the game mechanics from the ground up
They just copied what the real developers had already made. Thanks for confirming

>>725273389
>Make sense. HSL was making proper rpg, stuff that cost money and were quite close to finishing the game
Yes and no. Because we have leaked footage of the game has no RPG mechanics whatsoever, and is literally just walking down hallways, getting into terrible fights, followed by walking down more hallways.

>>725273403
>>725273407
Why do you retards pretend like "being able to skip dream sequences on replay" is some kind of problem. A lot of people would very much like to skip the opening 30 minutes of Resident Evil 7 when replaying but nobody says this means that nobody wants RE games to have linear, scripted, restricted walking sim sections.

While looking at "leaked rpg mechanics" in the archives to figure out how often the shill had desperately tried deflecting, I found this https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/721129123/#721152880
>the Chinese Room of VTMB2 leans heavily into conversations and decisions. Character building is downplayed, yes, being channeled through clan, discipline choice (with cross-clan disciplines that are tied, again, into the relationship system)
hahahahahahaha

>>725272196
>especially when you use Fabien's powers to animate furniture and talk to a horny filing cabinet
So random lmao

>first-person
>filled with niggers
Golly gee... I wonder why it flopped...

>>725271106
Retard-core

>>725273657
Could you link said leaked footage? I only remember some promotional gameplay.

>>725273719
>Spend massive amount of time and budget on shit everybody just wants to skip
>When the core of the game with the actual fucking main character is completely barebones
Think about it for a second, you dumb fuck.

When was VTM ever good? Tabletop was always gay pretend shit for theater kids, only good for picking up goth girls back in the day
VTMB was always a buggy unfinished mess only somewhat propped by its writing, the gameplay itself is atrocious

>>725273767
It's so fucking bad. It's not even trying to be wacky like 2008 newfag /b/ would be or anything. It's just you asking the filing cabinet a question, the cabinet answering, and Fabien making 2-3 quips based on the answer. Repeat 5 times and you're allowed to walk to the next conversation

>>725273464
>because they don't wanna waste even more money on DLC for a game that sold 40k copies
It sold about 10x that. You might be confusing it with the first game.

>>725273871
This!!!!! VTMB1 was always bad, now fucking buy 2 already you faggots
>>725273864
I'm still saying the Fabien segments were a genius ploy to make you enjoy the dogshit combat more, because whenever they end you're happy you finally get to play an actual game again, even if it's terrible

>>725271106
Current day American studios

>>725273864
Nobody wants to skip Fabien. They just don't want to replay his walking sim sections 10 times.

>>725273871
the ttrpg is whatever, the reason people liked the game was the writing, the mission design, and having actual choice in how to handle shit, even if it all felt janky and buggy.
It's what RPGs should strive to be, instead of the bethesda/bioware/cyberpunk cuck shit where there's only ever one railroaded solution, and maybe an ending choice at the 11th hour to trick you into thinking it mattered.

>>725273767
>>725273884
Basically, it's TCR making the mistake of thinking that people actually want a Malk protagonist.

>>725274183
>Nobody wants to skip Fabien
lol

>>725274231
>Basically, it's TCR making the mistake of thinking that people actually want a Malk protagonist.
People want malkavian protagonist, but they want fishmalk instead of quirky detective.
Bloodlines 1 malk is beloved because he'she is 100% crazy schizo who argue with stop sign and his own tv, while talking in gibberish and spoilers.
Of course sensivity consultants hate this because "muh stigma against mental ilness". Nobody wants to play protagonist with some mild mental ilness, you alredy have enough of it in rl, especially woman.

>>725274029
The Chinese Room is British. The game's entire cast is British people doing passable American accents.

>>725274415
>Bloodlines 1 malk is beloved because he'she is 100% crazy schizo who argue with stop sign and his own tv, while talking in gibberish and spoilers.
What exactly do you think Fabien is? He also argues with the stop sign. He also spoils the plot before it happens.

>>725274429
I forgot bongistan is a real country, should've said anglo studios, since even australia can be pretty retarded

>>725274472
hahahahahahahahahah I knew he was gonna bring up the stop sign (day 1 DLC for 12€ btw) because making a reference to the old game means the writing is the same, right?

>>725274415
>>725274472
Fabien is a complete nutjob. He's a bug-nuts delusional serial killer (the rebar killings are just the most obvious stuff) that hides his true nature underneath a quirky and chipper detective persona.

>>725271436
Like the other guy said, Fabien's segments are trash even on the first playthrough. Made me want to quit the game and I hadn't even paid for it. They are just linear walking simulators with no consequences. You can just spam through the dialogue and nothing happens, because the game is not a RPG and choices do not matter, because there are no choices.

>>725274583
>They are just linear walking simulators with no consequences.
Welcome to The Chinese Room. They literally invented this genre of game.

>>725274579
Why do you get off on your "Fabien is the killer" theory so much, shill?

>>725272982
>Bloodlines 1 was 2004 version woke.

>>725271252
Paradox has already stated that they are focusing on their core area of expertise now (GSG moneymakers). They are willing to license the IP, but they won't be funding it anymore.

>>725271576
Paradox got pitched the game. They weren't shopping around for it. They liked the pitch then funded the development. I'm willing to agree that they were morons who accepted it, because Paradox has zero competence to oversee any development of an RPG, but I'm pretty sure the people involved in that debacle are already fired from the company.

>>725273047
I think that has more to do with WoD simply not being some great attraction they may have thought which would get license requests left and right. RPG books profit margins are razor thin so I doubt those were the driving factor.

>>725274664
So why did they sell it as an RPG?
Also I'm fairly sure you hear dialogue or have some item to look at while walking in walking sims usually. I don't give a shit how much of a shill you are, you cannot pretend that other walking sims have parts where you walk through the same streets you already walked through 50 times, while nothing happens

>>725274694
Anon VTM and white wolf in general was woke by it's time standards, with all gay stuff etc. It was just better time back then, now wokes are batshit insane.
Just quick reminder that republicans are portrayed as crazy(radio ad) or one of sins you can confess to Venus is "I voted republican".

>>725271445
TCR were hired to scramble together a deliverable product from the mess that HSL had left behind. Paradox wanted to recoup some losses, which is why Bloodlines 2 is full of assets from HSL's game. It's called Bloodlines 2, because that is what HSL pitched to Paradox and what was supposed to be developed.

>>725274763
>So why did they sell it as an RPG?
Because it's technically an RPG.
>Also I'm fairly sure you hear dialogue or have some item to look at while walking in walking sims usually.
Why do you think Fabien constantly narrates what he's doing?

>>725274716
>GSG moneymakers
Paradox (developer) != Paradox (publisher)
Paradox Interactive publish quite a few different things, they don't just publish games from their daughter company
They simply said they'll lease out VTM if they ever want to make another game in it, because the experience with TCR's incompetence soured them on trying again

>>725274940
>Why do you think Fabien constantly narrates what he's doing?
He doesn't when you're walking from location to location. Why the fuck are you lying about such a simple aspect of the game?
You're a TCR employee who passionately defends all their walking sims, you could simply say "evil Paradox didn't give us the budget for dialogue while walking" again

>>725270818 (OP)
>budget of 60M USD
Someone stole a lot of money.

>>725274716
Paradox have re-established White Wolf and allegedly have new videogame productions in development, but I imagine those are with partner publishers.

>>725275023
>He doesn't when you're walking from location to location.
Yes he does. He muses about what is going on with the case. That said there is no voiceover when going for yet another fucking resonant blood refill.

>>725275156
>He muses about what is going on with the case
What you mean to say is he summarizes the previous conversation in 2 sentences, followed by a minute of silence as you fast forward your way to the next location

>>725274727
I think WoD could probably attract great interest again, but it's been so poorly managed this past decade that it takes rather drastic action in both Crunch and Fluff to get that interest again.
Or just make a good game, Space Marine 2 got a lot of random normies interested in 40k

>>725273121
you realize being THIS invested in a shovelware flop wearing a skinsuit is pretty fucking weird unless you're being paid, right? There are much more interesting people to stalk

>>725274973
None of what you said contradicts what I said. With HSL, Paradox acquired equity in the company and directly funded the development of Bloodlines 2. This was a problem, because Paradox has zero competence to oversee production of an RPG of that scale. Paradox CEO said in mid 2025 that they will not be doing that anymore, but are willing to license the IP, same as what WotC did with BG3.

>>725275209
Speaking of which, I think Fabien often recaps stuff unnecessarily, and I hope they trim it a bit. I also hope they make it so that when you're doing Fabien's flashbacks it just teleports you to the next location instead of this waddle, waddle, waddle bullshit.
>>725275301
Why wouldn't they be invested in the best vampire game ever made?

>>725275301
He's been doing this for years at this point. The only difference now is that we can point to the game and say "look it's shit" rather than just being 99% sure it's shit based on previews

>>725274973
nta but paradox should just bite the bullet and make a dlc for crusader kings or europa universalis with vampires, medieval vampire clans oh yeah

It's never going to end. TCR and PDX are going to release a bunch of patches. They already have Christmas and Valentine's Day updates lined up. So it's gonna be daily/weekly threads forever.

>>725270912
Bloodlines 2 is the Marathon(202X) of VTM games...

>>725275394
Crusader Kings would make more sense since VtM Dark Age is set during that period rather than the latter EU time period

>>725275436
an undead game ridden forever, truly fate worse than death

>>725275354
>zero competence to oversee
The publisher gives funding, markets the game, and helps with contacts to other companies. The publisher doesn't dictate how to make an RPG

>>725275301
NTA but I think it's way to cope with game he waited 20 years bieng shit.
There was a lot of hype for bloodlines 2, cult classic was finally getting sequell.
Then multiple red flags showed, only for paradox to axe project and after years of radio silence give it to walking sim dev.
Analysing what went wrong and what could have been is way to cope.

>>725275480
or hearts of iron for that kinky nazi vamps

>>725270818 (OP)
>watch interview of the BL2 devs talking to the HtP creators
>can instantly tell the sheer power gap in writing competency, intelligence, and maturity
>also pretty quickly tell the HtP creators only really care about old WoD lore and whatever they feel like homebrewing, while the BL2 devs are fully submerged in V5 slop
Maybe one day alfabusa will fully worm himself into the WoD official stuff and deliver us from this decade long nightmare

>>725275493
>NTA but I think it's way to cope with game he waited 20 years bieng shit.
No, he doesn't give a fuck about VTM. In fact, he has said many times that VTMB1 was shit.
He's a rabid TCR fan. Just a little reminder for all the newfriends:
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/text/pinchbeck/
Every post bringing up this writer you have never heard of is the same mentally ill fanboy

>>725275493
I only really became interested after the new dev took over because I really like the Amnesia game they made because it took Amnesia and ditched all the unimportant stuff and focused entirely on mood and story.

>>725275489
the publisher definitely directs the overall tone and content of the game tho, if they deem some character or story being too 'problematic' it will be changed

>>725275574
I was always under the impression Jessica Curry and Dan Pinchbeck were fairly well known in more academically oriented gaming circles.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-makers-of-everybodys-gone-to-the-rapture-reflect-on-happiness-and-horrors-444/

>>725275569
HtP is probably WoD most successful fan project, so it's an inevitability at this point.

>>725275489
>>725275678
Paradox are definitely inclined to want VTM games to not rock the boat too much content-wise. Because they see it as possibly endangering the tabletop.

>>725275569
link?

>>725270818 (OP)
Was always going to be shit no matter how much money, or lack of, was thrown at it.

>>725274429
why is it not chinese

>>725276543
Colonialism

>>725276543
They named their studio that because they have the same level of quality control as Chinese companies

>>725270818 (OP)
did they actually release sales numbers somewhere or is this the usual fanfiction

>>725276829
If those sales are right, then it's about 133k-216k on steam.

>>725271883
>the original Bloodlines was a huge financial bomb
It made it's money back before the studio closed due to word of mouth sales, but it was too late and Activision wouldn't answer their calls. Not to mention the game continued to sell well for years, it had a very long tail. It made good money in the end, but back then, even moreso than today, the first month's sales make or break studios.
They stayed open another three and a half months trying to get another publisher (and patching out the worst bugs), but it just didn't work out.

>>725275571
Reminds me how there are literal Jewish and Muslim vampires in nuwod even though consuming human blood is like one of the only things that are impossible to pilpul around

>>725275749
>>725275569
>Htp creators
>HtP is probably WoD most successful fan project
>HtP
???

>>725277545
Hunter the Parenting, some gay ass youtube show

The franchise doesn't matter because it was long pozzed. I'm just sad we will never get a proper vampire game because the modern western media is terrified of everything they represent.

>>725277545
The guys that made What if the Emperor Had a text to speech device mad a series based in WoD after GW passed their zero tolerance policy on fan content.

>>725270818 (OP)
The racists are broke, good riddance.

>>725270818 (OP)
I think most people gave up on this game being good years ago. Like they just moved on and memory holed its existence. In a few years we'll get threads asking why Bloodlines never got a sequel and someone will point out that it did.

>>725270818 (OP)
I wonder what the retard that spent months shilling this trash is doing? Probably already got laid off and necked himself.

>>725277545
The what if the emperor had a text to speech device creators went on to make a world of darkness series and Mage the ascension tabletop campaign after games workshop clamped down on fan creations. God fuck Games Workshop. A lot of the characters from HTP are blatant stand ins for the counterparts from the TTS device series. It's fun, last episode had a Stolen Moon.

>>725275569
V5 is just too fucking sanitized to be cool. Eat shit Paradox.

>>725276161
It's on the Chinese Room's official jewtube channel

>>725279410
https://youtu.be/s_hHkur9yHI

>>725270912
Would have helped if it had been developed by people experienced in developing ROLE PLAYING GAMES not fucking walking simulators

>>725271883
>TCR/Paradox is going to waste even more time and money on this

This game is a failure on EVERY level.
There is no way this project could have gone worse or delivered a worse product.
100% monkey paw situation. This shot should never have been made and the real Bloodlines would be better off but tainted by this mockery.

>>725276543
its named after some gigaboomer thought experiment that falls apart the moment you put any thought into it

>>725270818 (OP)
>s
For sad

>>725279753
It went through development hell, I guess last shreds of hype died when hsl version was canceled. It was over years ago.

Shouldn't have fired Chris Avellone

>>725281969
What would he have changed? The writing is the least of this games problem.

>>725270818 (OP)
guys I think it was my fault, I pirated it

>>725271883
remember imperator? i do it's still unplayable to this day.

>>725272537
>You mean Rome: Imperator? The game that received 11 patches in 2019, 7 patches in 2020, and 5 patches in 2021? All the other games you mentioned were cancelled before release, right?
they didn't fulfill their dlc promises.

>>725270818 (OP)
Honestly, that's a lot more than I thought they would sell. It was bound to make a loss, but it seems they at least manage to minimize the damage somewhat.

>>725271106
Fabien segments are the only good parts of the game.

>>725270818 (OP)
All they had to do was make Bloodlines 1 but better. A bunch of nobodies with the budget the cost of a single apartment in New York could do it back then, a gigantic company that has a monopoly on grand strategy games cannot. It is pathetic, in every way.

>>725277306
tfw conspiracy theorists weren't lying about Tzimisce Antediluvian underneath New York
https://youtu.be/9dra8haJYIU

The only way we can get a good VtM game now is to do a Disco Elysium clone

>>725288364
They are making one but it's stuck in development hell

>>725288521
Another curse again on VtM games

>>725288630
Curse on VtM games is people don't care for anything unless it's Bloodlines 2. Well, they DID.

>>725270818 (OP)
STEAM sales are bringing in 13 mil USD according to the article. Of course I suspect Steam sales are more than half of all sales, so lets say 20 mil total.
The budget is what Paradox told their creditors. Given their situation, it might actually make sense to exaggerate that number, to explain away other losses, or to hide overal profits (therefore not pay tax on them). How expensive can an Unreal Engine action game possibly be, given they already owned the IP?
So, optimistic numbers, lets say the game made back 50% of its budget. Still a failure commercially. OPTIMISTIC NUMBERS.

All of that being said, why do you care? Are you an investor in Paradox? Post the review scores, not the sales scores, retard. /v/ talking about money is always stupid.
My review: 1/3 of the quests feel AI generated, combat feels repeatative, you unlock all your abilities less than halway through the story, the clans don't play sufficiently different to each other to warrant replaying the game (especially witht he repetitive quests), and a big part of your game play time is spent controling another character in a walking simulator type game, which feels like the game Chinese Room developed just dropped inside the game Hairbrained Schemes developed.
I rate it 5/10, its a B tier game that I'd only recommend to fans of the setting, or vampire fiction fans, to play once without paying for it.

>>725289030
>How expensive can an Unreal Engine action game possibly be, given they already owned the IP?
When will niggers like you finally realize that salaries are the biggest line item in the development budget?

>>725289153
Hairbrained Schemes, the bigger of the two studios, worked on another game for as much (if not longer) time: Lamplighters League. Its budget was 20 million USD.
All of the Chinese Room games are low budget, but their studio hired a lot of new (cheap) workers to finish Bloodlines 2, so its harder to make the comparison there.

Still, no reason to think its 62 mil total, and there are reasons for Paradox to exaggerate that number when talking to their creditors, so they can hide profits and put all mistakes in the same bag they can then throw out.

>>725289371
>Hairbrained Schemes
You're retarded for at least two reasons. Didn't even read the rest of your post

>>725270818 (OP)
I'm having a hard time believing they just spent 60 millions after all the developing time, changing developers midway and delays. Well, maybe they just hired cheap shit developers and indians.

>>725289498
To top two reasons you are retarded for:
1. Dismissing a post on an internet forum for a spelling mistake.
2. Caring about profit/loss of companies you aren't a shareholder in.

If I could wirte perfect gramatical english, I wouldn't. On principle I'd go back and intentionally make mistkaes, so piss int he throats of arrogant anglos online.

>>725289641
>spelling mistake
I did say two reasons and you haven't even figured out the second one yet. No more (you)s, I hope you will never realize why everybody immediately discounted your post

>>725289030
>why do you care about videogame news in a videogame imageboard?
Why indeed.

>>725289754
its not video game news
its paradox incorporated financial news

>>725270818 (OP)
Well at least music is ok, not as good as first game but it's mostly good.

For all the other problems, I'll always find it disappointing it turned out you didn't get a chance to take a pass at Lou most of all, or at least Ryong. Hell, even the Safia thing didn't really work out as a romance (or an attempt to get on her side, or change her path or whatever else). its a pity there were so many things wrong with the game and it appears their post launch support/update is going to be a lot of playing yet more characters including stronk black tory primogen.

>>725290050
Keep deluding yourself and still seething, retard.

This is a /v/abien board.

>>725290142
They spent all their romance budget on the fetch quest grandma

Is this shill still doing his shtick? I would have thought after release his pay checks would stop depositing

>>725270818 (OP)
As someone who pirated this with zero remorse (no chance in hell I buy this): I expected of this to be bad, but it still surprised me how bad it was. This is so bad that I would unironically play DA:V over it, and that was a shitshow too. At least that shitshow was so bad that I could laugh. Like that character called Traash. At least I could remember THAT one due to how God awful that bitch was. Here? I can't even find that one character I can hate in that matter to shitpost about them. Closest to that thing is that faggot Nosferatu whose whole personality is being a fag (the thing they replaced Dale with), and our mc+Fabian I guess, but both of them are just boring. Imagine making such a shit game that is so shit that I don't even feel like shitposting about it.

It's so bad that I now look at pic-related with fondness because he, Dale, for as short as he existed, had more character to him than entire cast in this shitshow. At least solely for the sake of shitposts.
That fucking Nosferatu in that terrible first demo had more character to him than anyone in that game. That fucking demo now looks like 10/10 compared to a final product and that thing was shitposted in mass due to how terrible and janky it was.

I guess cleaver guy got the last laugh by not being in this shit at all (despite them using his character in crossovers) because Christina Hendrick's character was beyond wasted on this shit.

>>725290747
I assume even DA:V has better combat than this but I'm certainly not gonna play it find out

>>725290142
Anon hate to break this down to you but VTM Vampires aren't interested in sex and romance.
It's weird they added flirting dialogue with granny. Also your elder, Lou and Ryong wouldn't be interested in romance in slightest, well Lou might but not in romance but more as way to controll you, like giving you special drink, 3 times...(her blood to blood bond you and have controll over you).
Still vampires lose all their libido after embrace and use seduction and sex as means to get blood. It's also sad for ghouls because of vamp blood ghouls are super horny for their master, but said master have no desire for sex since feeding feels much better.

>>725275571
>respects his new pronouns
>nazi is a tranny and one of the evil faction
totally not woke

>>725291045
The gameplay is the only redeeming thing about Veilguard

>>725290747
Dale was supposedly big twist character. I can't remember who exactly was he meant to be, but he was meant to be someone very powerful who was larping as thin-blood. There is a chance they planned to have him related to Lilith, who they originally planned to have in the game too, but... yea. All scrapped. Either way, that alone does sound more interesting than Safia who seems to be an attempt at twist villain... except everything in the game keeps telling you it's her all along lol

>>725291586
>Lilith, who they originally planned to have in the game too
In a real role or like Caine in 1?

>>725271570
It hits nothing from the original.

>>725291280
>makes mockery of
>still woke
just like irl

>>725270818 (OP)
All they had to do was make slutty hot vampire bitches. Western devs never learn.

>>725292008
There was long necked tremere girl, she was cut in TCR version.

>>725273121
Ah, all the shit characters.
This "person" belongs on the streets, destitute and miserable.

Who the fuck is this supposed to be anyway? Are they advertising the game with a cut character?

>>725291692
Unknown? Remember the green lady from this pic? Most likely who she was meant to be in the game. I can't remember full details on what leak bro was sharing back then, but I do remember him saying that Lilith is in the game and that Dale wasn't what he appeared at all. This further got supported by other testers discovering weird strings for Dale and him being marked as full vampire when supposedly he was just a thin blood. Hard to know at this point Mitsoda's VTMB2 script was like after they booted him, then booted entire og VTMB2 too and had TCR devs redo everything aka this game. Majority of characters are missing (og poster guy who worked for "baron") and/or redone as someone else (Dale seems to have been turned into Tollyl; the game does also mention Dale by name as owner of your apartment, but he never makes a single appearance).

>>725291758
I like how the greentext in the pic simultaneously claims the actual proof of Russia and Chechnya's rampant homophobia is just a rumor and made up by faggots while also cheering raids of gay sites and making said faggots disappear

>>725292228
It’s a Tremere Phyre

>>725292353
>the game does also mention Dale by name as owner of your apartment, but he never makes a single appearance
Is that a joke? You meet this guy >>725290747 as part of Fabien's talk to the dead shtick when you're investigating a rebar killing in the apartment that ends up as your home base

>>725292008
WW retconed the Kuei-jin away, so they don't exist anymore .

I can't wait for that VTMR Skyrim mod to come out

>>725292353
The Baron was Therese. They never got around making her in-game model, but she was meant to make slight cameo in her ending in which she takes over. You're welcome.

>>725292807
>we could have had the hottest character from 1
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

>>725271167
lmao, it's like 3 hours at least, it feels more because of how bad it is, also designing a segment so bad people beg you to let them skip it is insane

>>725292906
My favorite is the dialogue with the "pretend to be someone else" power where you just instantly get a do-over if you don't pick the correct simon says option

>>725292393
>industrial killing equals rando shooter
hello master-slave-dialectic anon-kun

>mfw I 1st played this shit and thought that Fabian section will be the saving grace in the game because he is a detective and you can't fuck up a detective character... right?
>BOY WAS I FUCKING WRONG!!!
>his sections ended up being THE WORST fucking thing in this already boring as hell dogshit game
>mfw

Even cyberpunk 2077 did RPG better, and it isn't even an RPG. A shitty cyberpunk inspired game was better than bloodlines 2. Let that sink in.

>>725292393
If you want to know the actual politics, Chechens are mudslimes who murder faggots, and they also have protected status in Russia after the Chechen wars. This means that if someone hurts the feelings of the Chechen people, the Tsar has to do a humiliation ritual and denounce the evil random western company

>>725293206
Kek same.
Detroit Become Human is garbage, but Connor, and his sections, were the only good parts about it precisely due to that reason. You can never go wrong with detectives, yet this game managed to fuck even that up. No true mystery. No mystery true solving. You can't even pick what you want because the game won't let you proceed until you pick the *correct* choice out of all these "choices" they offered you. What a fucking joke!

>>725292906
>bring up Hector's girl
>Gideon interrupts you and tells you not to finish the sentence
Let's see the SEAmonkey shill defend this one

>>725293206
>the game tries to tell you that you are an ancient vampire
>one that has been in Zzzzz for over a century
>your mc speaks like a zoomer with terrible Dracula accent and knows what hashtag is

>>725293627
I think his eyes started glowing when he interrupted you so he probably read your mind or some shit. The whole sequence is still retarded nonetheless.

>>725270818 (OP)
Good. Fuck paradox and the tcr

>'t was always woke
>actually shitshow started from some rando leftard article
>https://web.archive.org/web/20180708153619/http://www.dogwithdice.com/whitewolfaredead/
>https://www.vice.com/en/article/how-the-makers-of-vampire-the-masquerade-convinced-its-customers-the-game-isnt-for-nazis/
today i will remind them
your enemy lied, lies and will lie
to leftard tankie, whomever controls the history (perception of the past) controls the future. And it must be so as you can only be a slave (the opressed) or the master (the opressor). The worst thing is, that it is not always the case that such a person "lies" about the past, but that they are so programmed by the master-slave-dialectic matrix that they only see both past and present through the prism of their desired future.
protip - this is not exclusive to leftards, and is often a trick/flaw of academics and others

>>725293116
>chechen gay man shoots homophobic, murder-happy muslims
TOTAL FAGGOT DEATH DO YOU SEE HOW THEY WANT US DEAD WE MUST KILL THEM FIRST
>russian straight barges into gay men's homes to beat them up and torture them on camera
Ho hum...these things happen. My local commissar told me this is a good thing.

inb4
>THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY POST

>>725292906
>[Leave]
>I didn't want to leave
Why is the option there then you fuckwit jeet scum

The only good thing about Fabien is the VA is good. Especially when he plays different characters.

>>725294372
To trick you into thinking it's an RPG.

>>725270818 (OP)
>paywalled faction shit (square enix Deus Ex preorder rewards tier display of publisher greed)
>androgynous tranny characters (woke DEI dogwhistle)
>whole game is about laughable melee combat which was already apparent when they first showed it years ago
absolutely everything about this thing screamed bad game all along. there was never any sign of potential or improvement. who the fuck are the "people" making these terrible decisions and who are their bosses who are failing to fire them in all these years?? like how do you not have ONE Serge Hascoet style enforcer visiting these companies and nooticing the most egregious mistakes before they go on for years and years? how do you not clean house when the devs miss every deadline and produce something unappealing several years ago? what the fuck.

>no humanity system
>no frenzy
>can't drain anyone when drinking
>clans mean jack shit
>clans mean jack shit part 2 as you can learn abilities of other clans despite not being one which kills any replay value this trash might have had
>clans mean jack shit part 3 as you have this fag called Tolly who is a nosferatu hanging next to a Prince in her tower and even being able to speak back despite how completely impossible would any of this be kek
>Phyre is beyond shit
>they are meant to be an existing character but the game never actually explores them despite being supposed non-avatar character which makes the point of them being established character pointless
>Fabien is even worse
>this faggot doesn't shut up and he manages to be even worse than mc despite his story being the one that does get explored
>every character is uninteresting charisma void in general
>none of them have a character beyond one note
>Luo wants power because she wants power I guess (fucking LaCocks had more depth to him than this)
>imagine fucking up a bitch with big tits by making her as forgettable as everyone else in this game
>Tolly is the worst shit in this game
>whose self-insert is this faggot?
>no memorable side-quests like in the 1st game because everything is just fetch quests (love modern gaming design so much)
>not even a memorable main story quest because writing sucks
>ChatGPT probably could've came up with a better script for this already AI generated looking game (I refuse to believe that a human hand touched the pend for writing this game)
>Safia could've been cool twist...
>...if everything in the game didn't point at her being the obvious antagonist that you can't call out because the game forces you to play dumb even when the said game tells you on every corner that it's her
There is way more, but this post is already too long for my liking.

>>725295324
It's tcr walking sim, meaning you will play just like written by senior writter and not in any other way, such system dtrract from walking sim.

>>725291586
He was like a ancient vamp pretending to be a thin-blood

>>725294326
slave and the master
one must admit Hegel mind raped your ass far beyond the place of talking

>>725293043
...wtf else do you think should happen? fail the entire mission and start over if you want to see if there's funny dialogue when you select "my name is vlad"?

>>725270818 (OP)
I still can't play this because it keeps crashing and ruining previous saves. Nice fucking job, devs.

>finally get a game where you can play as best clan (outside of the visual novel)
>its shit
shadowbros....

>>725295989
Honestly, they probably should have just designed/written it better so there were more context clues before getting the option which boot them out of the issue. In the game right now, it's very trial and error.

>>725295324
>...if everything in the game didn't point at her being the obvious antagonist that you can't call out because the game forces you to play dumb even when the said game tells you on every corner that it's her
Safia was the worst part because of that!
It would be like if the 1st game forced your MC to think that LaCroix had your best intentions at heart and that he totally wasn't just trying to get you killed on every corner. The difference here is that while your MC was more than aware of this, they also had no choice but to follow LaCroix to every suicidal mission he sent them to on purpose for a simple reason; he is a Prince and you are a "mistake" that he "spared" back then. So, despite knowing that LaCroix is jewing you, you had no choice but to listen to him. Not to mention that he literally does dominate you if you try to refuse. Aka you had no CHOICE, but the game never made a fool out of you by FORCING you to believe LaCroix.
Safia on the another hand? You are FORCED to pretend that you don't know it's her. Your the game literally goes "nah, it can't be Safia" every single time the game gives you an evidence that it's her. You get NO CHOICE in this matter. You are forced to be dumb! You are forced to be "shocked" when it's revealed it's her after EVERYTHING in the game already told you so. I'm not even fucking kidding!! I wasn't even doing these shitty side-quests much, yet from what I did, the game told me on every corner that Safia had hand in something. I hear there is way more if you cared to do way more, yet you never get any choice to act on it, and unlike LaCroix, there is not a good reason for it either. Safia doesn't have hold over you like LaCroix did. If anything, you are an ancient vampire in this game over some fucking newbie like in the first game.

Tl;dr: This shit was 100% AI generated.

>>725296256
you guys recall anons having... hope...?

>>725296686
>nearly 10 years ago

>>725296256
That's not Cappadocians

But what about all the great reviews about having a blast with this long-awaited return to form for the franchise?

Frankly i’m surprised the game isn’t more shitty and that i kinda enjoyed it. It’s still a 6/10 at best

>>725293206
I'm more impressed by a fact that they managed to make a Malkavian character... boring.
Og malk guy for this game on the poster, who had the same VA as Gary Golden, looked interesting and deranged enough.
Even more normal malks aren't so bland as Fabien.

Malks are one clan in which one should be allowed to go wild with, yet they made a malk so boring that he somehow manages to be blander than already bland protagonist despite you playing trough his story trough flashbacks.

post yfw you didn't spent a single cent on this turd

>>725270818 (OP)
permadeath

the first one was a flop, but a rough diamond also
this game just simply sucks

>>725296821
https://youtu.be/33gB8T7Ne4k

>>725296686
>>725297405
I miss the feeling of hype. Everything is shit now

>>725297245
Sensivity consultants, showing mental ilness as something funny bad, need to show proper respect people suffering from it.
AKA your Malk is now boring as fuck, because some shizoid/lefty activist might feel offended.

>>725270818 (OP)
no impact on the ending - no sales

>>725297245
Fish Malks are not allowed anymore as they are a social faux pas

>>725297492
their point is, in part out of incompetence in part of something else, to make everything shit
your point is this "A Beast I am, lest a Beast I become" https://youtu.be/x-xVo0-Yqno
https://youtu.be/9TzaBjqxlsU

Why didn't the free market fix it

>>725296686
>>725296686
>>725297405
>Lasombra bros got BTFO on every corner originally
>especially on last reveal that were originally Malks
>they finally get a last laugh in the end by being in over Malks but...
>the game is beyond shit to the point that they basically did a favour to Malks for replacing them
Lasombra bros...

>>725297789
Nta: Original Cover guy was one though and he was made during sensitive era. Literally serial killer that was bananas, but was somewhat "held" by his weird obsession for killing only people who are on his "list." The point still remains that he was bananas. Then again he is the only original VTMB2 character that didn't make an appearance in this game in any shape or form. Not even as a reused model.

>>725299416
>Then again he is the only original VTMB2 character that didn't make an appearance in this game in any shape or form
What about long neck tremere girl?

>>725299198
>the game is beyond shit to the point that they basically did a favour to Malks for replacing them
Lasombra bros were good guys all along

>>725271445
Would've sold even less because retards wouldn't have rushed to buy it to defend the 'sequel'

>>725299726
Your Safia? That's where her model went at least.

I've made it to the part where you meet misty in the flashback, i'm dropping the game. I went in with no expectations but damn. VTM is cursed.

>>725296686
They did win over malks in the end. If you consider being in this game a winning, that is.

>>725299932
It's not the same model. It was diferent tremere.
Safia might be "female tremere that is in story" but it's diferent model.

I got to the Elizabeth Dane as a Malkavian and I hated the entire experience. I know that there are people who loved playing as Malk, but I just don't get "it". I guess I'm too socially well-adjusted and cognitively intelligent to RP as a type 2 cluster b schizo.

>>725301612
Malks have one of the best disciplines for outside boss battles, but figuring out what dialogues mean can be a pain, half of me playing malk was hitting random options hoping for the best.

gangrel is the best clan because you can do anything as a gangrel

>>725301612
>I'm too socially well-adjusted and cognitively intelligent
https://youtu.be/flb3He1jR3U

>>725294216
That pic is kinda interesting. Are they talking about basically turning a babby into a ghoul? But what happens if someone would decide to turn a toddler into a vampire? Since, from my understanding, you just respawn the exact same way you were the moment you were turned every night, would a baby remain one forever? What about its mental development? Clearly regular vampires retain their knowledge even if their body resets to a default state, but how does that work for a child? Does it remain a child in mind, forever?

>posting a frog AND a sewer rat
shiggy diggy

>>725270818 (OP)
>>sales are 13M USD
Who bought this?

>>725302094
>t.

>>725302094
I prefer to not think about hypotheticals that make me want to CRUSADE harder than I want to GOTH.

>>725302094
I think it was answered in some older VTM rulebook, but I don't remember exactly. Either child would die or turned into perpetual children vamp. You can always ask autists in /wod/ thread on /tg/.
I remember that embrace can serve as abortion, because fetus dies and you can embrace werewolf creating abomination pissing off both vampires and werweolfs.

>>725271883
>I do wanna point out that the original Bloodlines was a huge financial bomb. So much worse than 2. Yet you have people who actually argue that Activision were wrong for cutting Troika off.
Because it was a great game. You are trying to bury the led, you are trying to make comparison between shit that are just not true. VTMB 1 was a great game: buggy as fuck on release, but still loved by everyone, and an instant cult classic. It was sad that Activision stopped funding Troika after that, true, because the game was great.

Your piece of shit game is abysmally offensively bad. It's a piece of shit. No one will be sad if your studio goes under because of it, because the game is bad. How many time will we need to tell you no one care about you because you made an offensively bad product?

>>725302537
>VTMB 1
No such game exists.
Did you perhaps mean VTMB?

>>725271883
>I do wanna point out that the original Bloodlines was a huge financial bomb
Gee I wonder why that would be. Maybe it’s because it released the same day as Half Life 2. Fucking kill yourself

>>725271883
Can you and your bosses kill yourselves

>>725295324
My favourite part was the game telling me how certain character felt upon me picking something. Ex:
>x was annoyed by that
It's funny because this 'approval rating' leads to absolutely nothing. There is no such thing as friendship/rivalry system in this game. It doesn't impact the game at all. It doesn't impact endings. It does jack shit other than tell you the useless information of certain character's emotions at that point because God forbid they let characters' movements and facial expressions do that on their own. Nope. Can't have that. This is why they will stare like a fish at you while making no movements whatsoever. Now you don't need to worry what they are feeling at that moment, because the game will literally spell you out how they feel.

>>725303403
I was wondering if the reactions would lead to anything and had a suspicion it didn’t. Just another example of it masquerading as a video game and RPG

>>725302361
Revenants which are basically families who have been generations upon generations of ghoul on ghoul fucking and are basically born as ghouls are pretty cool, they can produce vitae even without suckling on vampire teatsvery small amounts mind you and as a result live much longer than normieslike 100 to 150, need to be drinking vamp sauce and being well a regular ghoul to live indefinitely
I've always wanted to play a game as a old ass revenant butler or something, but such things would have very little reason to be fucking around in a game of vtm

>>725270818 (OP)
Plays better than the first, its the same shit as the first.

>>725303836
Nope. Does jack shit to all. Not even have these NPCs seeth at me beyond this single conversation. By the time we next meet, they are neutral despite me being a dick to them 24/7. It does nothing at all.
In the first game NPCs would react to me depending on how I treated them. If I was a jackass, they will hate me and more than show it whenever I interacted back at them. Sebastian even literally dominates you at one point if you try to refuse him too many times. He just starts mind raping you and forcing you to do his biding against your will.
No such thing here. Nada. I can piss all the right people off and they give just one angry one-liner or two, with the game in the corner telling me they hated that, but nothing changes overall in how we interact in the future.

>>725294216
I think by “it was always woke” people mean that the people who enjoyed VTM back then didn’t cheer the deaths of gay and black people but (You) actually do today. So clearly there’s a difference there.

>>725270818 (OP)
how did they spend 60 million on this?

>>725304337
Corruption, mismanagement, incompetence.
This game took 10 years and Multiple different studios to make, it's surprising that the cost wasn't higher

>>725304137
nobody is falling for this

>>725304137
Jack, the first guy you ever talk to, mogs the living shit out of every shitty character in this game. Random npc from the first game has more character, depth, is more interesting than major characters in this game. You can delude yourself about game by comparing jank (modern) Vs jank (old), but you either never played the first game or are shilling for TCR for free by pretending that this garbage is anything like the first game when it comes to anything. The fact that I can remember most random npcs from the first game while everyone in this game is beyond forgettable says a lot.

If you are defending this game I do not think you are a genuine person.

>>725304337
It's pretty easy when you're spending someone else's money.

Somebody already said it: You know how much this game sucks by sole fact alone that shitposters don't even care to have that one character that they will shit this board with. Even Concorde had Bazz, while Veilguard had that obnoxious qunari they/them. This game has no one that even shitposters would care about.

>be elder vampire
>get told to smell out some stinky and kill him
>later get told to deliver a package
>then i have to kill some retard on a roof
>next night
>i have to do this shit AGAIN
>mfw

>>725304948
nobody seems excited about the music either. at most they give general approvals to the soundtrack but it has less excitement than vtmb does for its music 20 years later.

>>725304956
I read that the delivery quest line links to the order of hermes and as interesting as that sounds, I couldn’t be arsed to actually do more than one of them

>>725305179
I did every side """quest""" and I remember none of it.

>>725304956
>Be elder vampire
>become some errands boy for low generation kindreds
TCR writing.

>>725304948
Shitposters of vtmb2 had Dale as their main mascot, but Dale they shitposted about no longer exists in a way he did so it's not as funny.
There is Tolly, a nosferatu who looks like it was written by the biggest Twitter tard, with just as faggy voice, but at the same time he is too fucking boring to shitpost him much beyond the fact that he is annoying and a faggot, but that's everyone in this game. He isn't even special in that.

>>725305681
Funniest part about Dale posting was that while anons were shitposting him as giga scammer due to looking Jewish as fuck, according to old leaks, they kinda were right as fucker was an ancient larping as thin blood that was jewing you for his own agenda.

> I AM THE LECHER BITCH
> AND I WEAR THE X OF CASTIGATION
> I AM THE WHORE OF THE EXTREME
> I AM THE HERETIC
> AND I CRAVE YOUR EXCOMMUNICATION
> LOOK IN MY EYES
> GET A LITTLE STAR STRUCK AND A LITTLE INSANE

>>725271106
Trannydevcore

>>725304514
ONE HAS FALLEN.
I HAVE WON AGAIN LEWS THERIN.

>>725305179
Then the Delivery Quest shouldn't have ended with a fight with a Mage or the Technocracy or something

>>725305681
I remember it sounded like Lacroix's VA voiced "Tolly" then Samuel in the HSL version

>>725305872
Reminds me on DMC5 pre-release threads. One anon shitposted that Urizen and V were halves of Vergil after Vergil "mastrubated with Yamato" kek... it was unironically correct. Well, Vergil didn't mastrubate with Yamato, but he did split himself in half using it, creating Urizen and V from it, so... yup.
Whatever this was some intern, Dan spoiling shit again, or just an anon who was just trying to shitpost, the point is that it was more than correct.

>>725305969
> DESTINY, WHO CARES, AS IT TURNS AROUND
> AND I KNOW THAT IT DESCENDS DOWN ON ME
> IT'S JUST ANOTHER DAY
> THE SHAME IS GONE
> HARD TO BELIEVE
> THAT I'VE LET IT GO
> LET IT GO
> LET IT GO

>>725270818 (OP)
They should sell it to Microsoft. Obsidian or Bethesda would be golden home for the license.

>>725306752
They should sell it to me. 80% dialogue, 20% gameplay. It would sell fewer than 100,000 copies but I would have it made with a budget of a quarter million since the graphics could run on laptops that are a decade old by the time of the game's release (dev time is 2 years since we aren't hiring internationally and need to render millions of triangles with ReShade and RTX on).

>>725270818 (OP)
I truly believe anyone who paid money for this shit and didn't refund it or actually enjoyed it should be killed.

>>725270818 (OP)
vtmb is not a easy game to make a sequel for a lot of reasons but holy hell did they fuck this up.

>>725271006
SEX WITH NAGISA KUBO SEX WITH NAGISA KUBO SEX WITH NAGISA KUBO

why can't someone take as many of the ex troika guys as possible and tell em to make a good game

>>725309361
It's been 20 years man. I doubt many, if any, still have the drive and vision they had back then.

>>725277306
There's been both of these for years, both canon and irl years

did this game have a malk in it at all? like any npc?

>>725310715
The voice in your head is a malk and there is a character that he sired who is a malk but she is completely unimportant and the writers just forget about her after she's revealed.

>>725310715
the shitty voice in your head. TCR is in love with him

>>725310715
Yes, you have Silverhand like voice in your head who is malk detective, his sire is also in the game so there are at least 2 malks in the game.
They are boring kind of malks.

>>725270818 (OP)
Did any of you, even for a second, assume that this had a chance of being good? Even if you know nothing about the absolute state of WoD, you still know what year it is.

>>725309361
You don't need to really do anything very special to make a VTMB 2 that will be eaten by the rabid fanbase wanting for more. You need like 12 memorable quests, some good weapons there and then, like 6 (4 at the absolute lowest) memorable characters, some dudes having funny accents.

A sewer. A badly designed sewer.

Uh. An inventory. Skills. Character sheets. Weapons. Skill checks. Hacking would be nice. Emails and stuff. Lockpicking would be extra nice. Then it'll be an average 7/10 most VTMB fans would agree don't quite match the original, but is still a worthy successor.

The issue is not TCR created an average game people would talk about in ten years and fondly says it isn't at the level of the first bloodline. The issue is that TCR created an utter piece of shit.

>>725310715
Crazy serial killer from original cover seems to have been scrapped and now instead of him you get Temu Silverhand that is in your head talking to you all the time aka Fabien.
Warning: He is boring as shit!
Outside of him? His sire and the one pregnant chick he sired, but both unimportant and just as boring.

>all mods that unfuck fem phyre face cause random crashes
Fuck this shit.

>>725305616
You mean high generation, the higher the number the weaker they are.

I watched a review and they said they got rid of most of the rpg elements on this rpg.
At this point im just gonna wait for some random group of indies to make a new "chicago streets vampire" game and play that. It probably already exists but hasnt blown up.

How did they fuck this up? It was supposed to be a power fantasy, playing as an awakened elder in the modern day.

>>725312067
>give vampire rpg
>to studio that make only walking sims
It's that simple.
Be glad you even can play as elder and not only Fabien.

>>725312067
It was unironically lost in translation. At first you were supposed to play a thinblood because V5 sucks thinbloods. Then someone had the idea of making you playing an elder. Then TCR went through all of this, and they had their own stories to tell about Fabien because they really like Walking Simulators.

We're talking 10 years of general incompetence, passing the hot potato to each others, people not thinking and not caring, people moving out of the studio and moving in, and no one gives a single fuck. So yeah. The writing is absoluely nonsensical. It's a miracle it has been released in any form.

>>725291150
Some vampire still engage in and enjoy sex. It isn't as good as sucking blood, but it is still a human action that helps you hold on to your Humanity.

>>725310715
>Fabien, the diablerized voice in your head, who is a bland unreliable narrator that doesn't feel particularly insane
>Fabien's sire Gideon, who is the cryptic fat fuck in the Garden remotely Dementating you and the "ex" Prince to torment her and tempt you into eating him not knowing Fabien took his spot in your head
>Fabien's childe, who is the closest to a classic malk in that she only talks cryptic nonsense from the moment she's embraced, unlike Gideon who didn't do that in his proper unlife where he was just a jolly quipper like Fabien, but gets even less screen time than him

>>725312957
My favorite part is when Fabien is introduced as a new childe in the 20s and all the NPCs are like "oh great another weird-ass Malkavian, I dunno why we even tolerate them", yet neither he nor Gideon ever say anything weird

I hate Fabien so much

>>725313201
10000 lines of quips and I think he made me chuckle once
>>725312415
It has an alright power fantasy on easy, but that gets boring after 10 minutes and the devs hate actual video games so there's 0 progression
On hard you get twoshot by ghouls and that's just comical

I think it could be a more interesting game if they don't dump it as soon as the DLC is out (They will)

The dlc plan seems backward more playing as other characters when its obvious nobody want to do that.

https://youtu.be/lPsQ6gZH-6s

>>725313791
The last time you shilled your shitty video you said it's a good game already
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/724870783/#724904491

>>725313161
Yeah, makes me wonder if they sensitivity trained themselves away from anything too literally crazy. Fabien is obviously an annoyance but none of his mental problems besides the autism are the fault of his curse, it's from overuse of Dominate mind wipes, which really takes away from it. The last thing this game needs is to be compared to The Council With Vampires but even Leysha had premonitions and a hallucinatory child. I really don't think the talking to objects was enough.
Actually speaking of Dominate if it weren't for Misty being embraced in the 30s and explicitly using it to make people forget I was ready to justify it to myself as a very exaggerated demonstration of the Dementate/Dominate split.

>>725313885
I think its good you can have fun with this game. it could be better.

Stuff like replayability improved, more pyhre content and more clear ending ramps

>>725311378
When they showed Christina Hendricks as a buxom vampire dominatrix type I was intrigued. When it got radio silent for a year I lost interest and the delays made me lose interest I didn't even know I still had left.

>>725314106
I came up with a doubles advocate answer: They wanted a canon reason you ask stupid questions all the time and all the vampires putting up with it. Basically the RPG thing of the protagonist asking every NPC about their entire race's backstory but with a story explanation
Kind of like the Disco Elysium "people will put up with a lot from a cop so don't be afraid to pick the retarded dialogue options" thing

>>725289371
>Paradox buys HBS
>could put them to work on a vtm trpg trilogy in the vein of shadowrun returns, with mod support for custom campaigns
>has them make a flop of a new IP instead
What the fuck are these Swedes smoking?

>>725314308
It is "devil's advocate," Anon.

Why did paradox even buy it?

>>725314526
I hole-hardedly agree, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go. Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.

>>725314597
Thanks for the pasta Anon. I haven't eaten today.