Thread 725436537

I don't understand why Evolve was a 4v1 PvP game instead of first-person shooter Monster Hunter.

That would've actually been a unique concept.

>>725436537 (OP)
Monster Hunter never figured out how to make Gunner gameplay fun and they had two decades and ~15 games as of now, what makes you think Turtle Rock would manage

>>725436537 (OP)
i dont get why this failed where dbd succeeded what dbd boils down to hot garbage

>>725436785
because muh crossovers and pro-ness. too many fags infest that game

>>725436785
I hate DBD, but Evolve had waaay too much downtime and the balance made everything borderline unplayable.

Evolve's core game design just didn't really work.

>>725436537 (OP)
4 v 1 PvP would actually be a good idea if the map of the game wasn't a closed circle.

>>725436945
Plus, evolve had the whole class feature that was significantly more punishing to new players who didnt know how to play. One shitty/new player in a role, and the hunters were fucked.

DBD you could just hop on as any survivor and do alright.

>>725436537 (OP)
The game came out of the gates trying to be the next big Esport game
The devs tried, lord knows they tried to make it something unique but whichever suit they had wrangling them shat the bed the moment he got a hold of it

>>725437138
not to mention all the fucking tools bhvr has given survivors over the course of these last few years. you can be stunlocked multiple times in a row between items, pallets and now perks which is pure faggotry. yet they'll always whine how the game is """killer sided""".

>>725436537 (OP)
Because Turtle Rock can come up with some great ideas (Left 4 Dead) but MAN do they suck at actually trying to implement these concepts and ideas into fun gameplay

>>725436537 (OP)
Slightly more esoteric FPS games have no real console appeal, because your movement is shit, your aim is shit, you have no ability to precisely interact with anything and you only have maybe 4 actions that the player can perform readily, since both thumbs are occupied by the sticks and there's an input that needs to be sacrificed for the "Aiming walk button". The game is inherently just limited to a very limited amount of "nouns" and "verbs", if you want to apply adventure game language.
They're just too dumbed down to work and default Monster Hunter already has a recommended grip that is only for crab people.
It might have had appeal as a PC exclusive, but this was well past the point where any company was going to try to make a major experimental title on PC and slightly too early for anyone to try to make freemium slop, so you got the middle ground of the time: multiplayer console game with massive amounts of on-disc DLC. Of course Evolve Stage 2 ended up being experimental freemium slop, but that also failed.
>>725436785
DBD is crossoverslop.

>>725436537 (OP)
>Interesting lore about colonized planet overrun by monsters
>Implied that the planet itself is responsible for the monsters getting more violent and bigger
>Lets squander this with a dumbshit PvP game lulz
All they had to do was make "Left for Dead (with aliens!)" and it would've made infinity dollars.
But at the time, PvP multiplayerslop was all the rage.

>>725436537 (OP)
SCP: Secret Lab is the spiritual successor to this

>>725438023
Its the fucking hip sway that does it for me, goddamn.

I miss my boy Emet

>>725438176
I thought it was Dragonball the Breakers. Though that game is heavily in favor of the villain, wheras this flopped around a lot.

>>725436785
dbd was a 20 dollar game (given away free many times) with new content added as microtransactions.

Evolve was a 60 dollar game with 40 dollar season pass. Its basically proof you cant make experimental multiplayer games and charge AAA price.

>>725436980
Wasnt able to play myself, but from my understanding, the overwhelming number of games were one of these 2:

>Hunters find and trap monster early at stage 1, leading to a short and disappointing match where nothing happens.
>Monster dodges long enough enough to reach level 3, where hunter stand no chance of winning. Game is just a tedious slog of monster gathering resources and hunters doing little but walking and following tracker.

Just sounds like there were very few moments where this pvp combat game had genuinely balanced Pvp interaction.

>>725438376
I don't know about that, I just know SCP SL has the concept of a bunch of people versus a small team of overpowered targets.
It's not one monster versus everyone else, it's 4 monster versus 2 teams simultaneously competing for a victory.

I'd say its the closest thing to getting the concept to work, because a bad human set up always loses to SCP and a bad SCP team always loses to human. But I guess having the NTF vs. Chaos element is a wrench in what would otherwise be a constant failure for SCP teams.

Maybe that's ultimately what Evolve needed, a human team to show up halfway through the game to fight both the monster and other people.

>>725438648
I played when they tried to relaunch as a free to play game. In stage 1 the monster was hilariously weak, and would die in 30 seconds if trapped. Stage 2 was okay but most monsters are still weak. Stage 3 was basically even.

I am sure in 'higher level' play the monster fares better but I remember playing like 20-30 hours and the monster only won like maybe 30% of the time.

>>725436785
Ignore retards talking about crossovers, those came in later after DbD already proved it was succesful. DbD as abyssmal as it is has better gameplay loop
>Killer has to kill survivors, he's faster than them. To balance this he has to carry survivors after downing them to specific spots and protect generators from being completed
>Survivors have limited capacity to fight back but they outnumber the killer so they can work on objectives while a different survivor is chased
Compare this to Evolve
>Monster has to kill hunters and is faster than them. He doesn't have to finish hunters as just downing them permanently lowers their health pool, he also has no objectives to defend giving him little incentive to fight hunters before at least stage 2, instead he tries to avoid them as he feeds
>Hunters have to catch up to the Monster and kill him, they are slower than him. To balance this out, all the maps are full of tunnels or chokepoints to cut off the monster, but only a single hunter can actually trap him. If he gets downed the dome goes down and the monster can escape freely
And this is the most balanced gamemode and the only one anyone played
TL;DR Dead by Daylight has generators which naturally generate killer vs survivor encounters leading to less downtime. Evolve actively discourages the Monster player from engaging with the Hunters while he's also the faster side, leading to prolonged periods of nothing happening as the monster runs circles around the map
>>725438648
Yeah pretty much. There's a lot more faults with Evolve but just this basic game design being this bad was enough to make it unfun

>>725438023
The artist and animators that created her knew EXACTLY what the fuck they were doing

>>725439042
>only a single hunter can actually trap him
they changed that

>>725439395
Yeah in stage 2, that one had it's own problems but I think when talking about Evolve failing most people talk about Stage 1, the paid original. Stage 2 I honestly don't remember that much, I remember they remade some of the maps to be smaller or more open which lead to the monster having trouble even feeding because the hunters were constantly on your ass cancelling your eating with damage, some buffs from eating/killing wildlife that were controversial but I don't remember the specifics and apparently the grind for new characters was super slow but I got them for free for owning the paid version so I can't comment on that one

>>725436537 (OP)
i remember playing this when it came out. i had a LOT of fun over all, but yes, it was a shitty game at its core. 217 hours according to steam.

in the beginning, i remember trying to focus on stealth as the monster. things felt kind of balanced at first, because everyone was still figuring things out.

but then people started figuring things out. the balance was trash. stealth was largely useless. wraith was op and entirely too mobile. then they added more hunters and monsters, and nothing really changed (wraith got nerfed a bit though).

i found elder kraken to be even more broken than wraith was, and easier to do it with. i had a 40-60 (i forget exactly. its been years) winstreak with elder kraken. i didnt bother with stealth at all, and i just rushed to the best and quickest clusters of animals. i could be 50-75% to level 2 by the time the hunters even landed. they had a clear trail to follow, and i could easily be level 2 by the time they caught up. even if i was freshly evolved and had no armor, i could probably win the fight right then. level 3 lightning strike, level 3 banshee mines, and level 1-3 push. no contest. rarely i would find some hunters actually dealing damage, but i would absolutely get a few downs out of the fight, and then escape for some armor. i would either evolve to 3 (lol gg) or just get some armor before the next fight and win. too fast, too strong, too easy.

fighting as hunters was kind of fun sometimes, but the vast amount of just traversal over stupidly uneven terrain and extremely limited jetpack was really dull and boring. the defense game mode thing was more fun as hunter. its a shame, because they had some cool characters and lore for the game. really wasted potential.

>>725438304
I want to like parnell but he seems so shit without weapon swap speed

>>725436537 (OP)
Never played the game because the devs are idiots but...

>>725439395
And added the planet scanner which all but killed stealth plays and turned it entirely into a frenzied dash.
On the whole asymmetric pvp shit can never be balanced so they should've leaned into making it fun instead of pretending to be an esport but instead hunters spend a solid half the match just running around and shoving their faces into stone walls even if their trapper is extremely good and knows how to hang back to head the monster off and then when they do get into a fight most of them are just plinking away at a brick wall.