Thread 725445019

evening fellas, can we save fighting games

ban steam charts threads

Why are you leaving out MK11 and Tekken 8?

Yeah, by putting an end to comboslop
No more juggling into special into juggle EX special into EX special into ten second long cinematic super horseshit that everyone can do because they made combos super fucking easy and somehow had the retarded idea to make combos long as fuck as if that's supposed to compensate

>>725445298
>Why are you leaving out MK11 and Tekken 8?
terrible games

>>725445298
I've only played Tekken and Tekken 8 is a horrible game.

1. No special moves of ANY kind but especially no magic and no fireballs. Just punch, kick and grapple. Also no defending/parrying. It's a fighting game, not a defending game.
2. More focus on cute girls in school uniforms, and pantyshots.

>>725445019 (OP)
fighting games are RTS for niggers.

>>725446095
>grapple
king slop?

>>725445019 (OP)
no. i play FG's daily and there is only 2 games i like, one has a butchered port on steam so bad that people go back to RPCS3, and the other came out over 30 years ago.

>>725445019 (OP)
Fighting games are simply too difficult. No other genre is as difficult as fighting games. The only other genre that I think is even more difficult are RTS and look what happened to them.

>>725446095
>No special moves of ANY kind but especially no magic and no fireballs. Just punch, kick and grapple. Also no defending/parrying. It's a fighting game, not a defending game.
Virtua Fighter just got a big update.

>>725446350
they're easier than some of the most popular genres like MOBAs

>>725446437
ASSFAGGOTS is a team game. If youre not very sklled, you can reach very high ranks supporting your carry - as long as you're in a good team obviously.

>>725446517
I'm referring more to the entry level.
Like, for example, try to start LoL now:
>150+ characters
>100+ items
>one billion mechanics regarding objectives
Compared to that, fighting games are easier to pick up and play. Reason people don't is because, as you mentioned, it's a solo game.

>>725446751
Those 150+ characters mostly fill the same niche and most of the items are just stat sticks

DOTA 2 is a truly complicated game in comparison, LoL is still manageable.

>>725445019 (OP)
They've been in a good state for a while if you have a pc, +R has rollback

>>725445019 (OP)
TFH was going to but then EVO was cancelled that year

>>725445019 (OP)
>can we save fighting games
Modern ones? Nah.
>over simplified combos/mechanics
>combos take way too long
>which means that you will have very common typical matches
>modern fighting games are more concerned with spectacle than actual matches that take skill
>we are at a point were randoms are beating legacy pros now
Too bad that Namco will never re-release/port older Tekken games with netplay on modern hardware.
Would love to replay DR/TT2.

>>725446095
Variable Geo

>>725445019 (OP)
I only care about SoulCalibur. I'm glad I stayed up to watch this live.

>>725445019 (OP)
tekken 7 is shit

city of the wolves is gigabased and i'm glad homos dont talk about it or play it because a portugese football player made a whore uncomfortable once

>>725445019 (OP)
fighting fags only have themselves to blame for the death of their genre.
>"oh boy i beat the campaign! now its time to see whats waiting for me online!"
>first match
>gets paired with an autist that's studied frame data for years
>turns away after a few games
>next new player
>"oh boy i beat the campaign! now its time to see whats waiting for me online!"
new players dont have other new players to go against because fighterfags push people away that fast.
when met with an impassable wall of autism thats been built up for years almost nobody will actually try to compete with it, not even other autists.

>>725445019 (OP)
Yeah just play YOMI Hustle

Play DOA.

>>725452065
>>first match
>>gets paired with an autist that's studied frame data for years
There's a lot to be learned from losing against a player like that because he'll consistently block punish your unsafe moves and will let you find out what's unsafe without you having to study frame data like him.

>>725452065
do fighting games not have SBMM?

>>725453101
even when they do it falls apart completely because there are not enough players of lower skill levels.

>>725445019 (OP)
I don't understand why don't the obvious thing and just release it for free and then make money with skins, characters and battle pass.

It works on league, it works on overwatch, why can't it work for figthing games

grubsisters...

>>725453704
It's over... Only Chun-li thighs can save our dead game...

>>725446095
>1. No special moves of ANY kind but especially no magic and no fireballs. Just punch, kick and grapple. Also no defending/parrying. It's a fighting game, not a defending game.

This game already exists, it called Virtua Fighter Animation on the Master System and it's not good (5:30):

https://youtube.com/watch?v=04NKJZfGTLI


>2. More focus on cute girls in school uniforms, and pantyshots.

You don't want a fighting game, you want to masturbate, go watch a hentai or "play" the Venus Vacation shovelware.

>>725452476
>Play DOA.
Dead franchise killed by Venus Vacation.

>>725449068
>Variable Geo
Most are mediocre games, but Advanced V.G. 2 is a decent fighting game.

>>725453006
Whats unsafe is devoting your life to fighting games
You get punished by the loser combo, which takes your entire life to play out

>want to play melty
>don't want to associate with discord subhumans
am I really getting filtered by this? Do people make public concerto lobbies anymore?

>>725445298
Shit sucks

>>725445605
THANK YOU. So glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. Whenever I complain about combo length in modern fighting games people respond to me like I'm retarded just because they're not as bad as anime fighters or something.

>>725453006
>frame data

This is why I quit fighting games. We are now studying frame data instead of actual fighting

Consider it saved

>>725452476
Give me a decent DOA on an accessible system with rollback and I'll be all over it. Shame that not a SINGLE game in the franchise, even emulated, fits this.

>>725457214
It must be painful being so bereft of intelligence that you can't even make sense of the post you're responding to. That anon just spoonfed you the answer to your issue and you're still talking about frame data. Even hood niggers care capable of comprehending this.
Are you dumber than a nigger?

>>725453432
People like >>725452065 quit too fast to buy skins and other cosmetics so FG companies have to fleece them before they have the chance to quit. Main reasons:
>input difficulty
There are certain FG inputs that take time to practice and be able to do consistently. Even something like QCF will be difficult at the beginning, all the more so if someone uses a shitty controller.
>being at the receiving end of oki sucks
In many situations in many games you have to guess right just to get your turn back if someone gets a single knockdown on you. You won't even get any damage from it in most cases, just a chance to play the game again. This is very frustrating because one of the players gets put into a privileged position, even though it doesn't last more than a few seconds in most cases and they earned it by getting the first hit. It's also fun to be at the giving end of looping oki, but a beginner player will be at the receiving end more often than not
>nothing is intuitive
It's necessary to understand the basics of how the game engine functions to even start to engage with it at a serious competitive levels, i.e. what are startup and recovery frames, what is stun, what are frame links etc. Those are simple concepts at their core, but they require explanation and must be internalized for use in game analysis. And then, most games have a whole bunch of cheesy knowledge check setups that require a specific response to beat, a response that might be different for different characters because they have different move sets. It takes a lot of time and effort to learn those. The worst part about it is that it's not only necessary to know how to beat something, it must be grinded into muscle memory so that it becomes a quick subconscious response. You will not have enough time to think "Hmm, he's doing X so I need to do Y to beat it." in a real match most of the time.

>>725457676
Just balance to moves so the don't require special inputs, like every other game. Then add sbmm and you're done.

>>725458090
I don't get why fighting game developers refuse to do something so basic.

>>725453432
>>725457676
Enjoyment from fighting games mostly comes from self-improvement. It's really satisfying to realize that something you struggled with before comes to you effortlessly now. However, improving at the game comes with diminishing returns. It's necessary to put in more and more effort in order to defeat further barriers and it's easy to become burnt-out. Talent also plays a role. This makes fighting games more akin to sports. It's something done for recreation, but it also requires a lot of effort if you want to seriously engage with it. Like real-life sports, a lot of people just prefer to watch others play instead. Unlike real-life sports, you'll make much less money from it even if you become a professional at some point. The reason they're less popular than other competitive games is because they're harder to understand and harder to learn. If two players who know nothing about the game play a match, it's a very shallow experience because neither of them will know what's actually going on or why they won or lost. It's easier to be able to tell that in a shooter or MOBA. Attack animations in fighting games look pretty and just looking at them is enjoyable for a time, but not forever. Nowadays there are also games with better graphics that provide a more straightforward form of challenge. This wasn't possible for a long time because console hardware was too weak. That was the time when fighting games thrived among casuals. This genre will never come back to the place where it was a few decades ago because most people never liked it for its meat and potatos, so to speak.

>>725458090
You're looking at it from the perspective of someone who can't do difficult inputs. For you, modern controls save you hours of practice. But from the perspective of someone who already knows how to do difficult inputs, it's making a skill that they had to spent time to learn completely redundant. People feel special when they can do something that others can't, regardless of whether it has any practical value. Is it right to take that away from someone who's already dedicated to the game, to the series, in hopes of drawing in people who were never dedicated?

>>725459237
>Attack animations in fighting games look pretty and just looking at them is enjoyable for a time, but not forever. Nowadays there are also games with better graphics that provide a more straightforward form of challenge.
nta but also the motion capture, animations, models, martial arts etc cost time and money to pull off, which is why modern fightan games are getting dumbed down with lower skill ceiling in order to entice more casuals and a broader audience. But this creates a double edged sword, the series gets more popular but worse with every new entry as a result while barely hanging on to stay relevant and profitable.

fight games need to be more accesible
i suggest mappable 1-button combos

It's a niche genre. Just stop.

>>725461840
It was the biggest genre in the 90s and early 00s thobeit.

>>725445019 (OP)
Looks like they're doing fine.

Im fine with the genre being niche, fuck normies

>>725462297
>WAAH WHY ARE FIGHTING GAMES DEAD

>>725445019 (OP)
only if you accept DSPGaming was right about everything

>>725451513
Dope. Last fighting game I'll probably ever care about. It was my first (Series anyways, starting with DC) and still favorite. Shame it's probably dead, but probably for the best, really.

>>725452065
It's this. It's always this. And I get it, multiplayer generally trends this way with the internet/mass communications/societal rot, everything focuses way too much on "meta". But the big problem FGC wise is how sheerly aggressive it is.

Think about it. ASSFAGGOTS maybe approaches it, but you're already playing for a while before people get mad and scream. General shooter "toxicity" is bad but can be avoided by more casual players, and is honestly missed a bit hy oldheads from Xbox Live lobbies. But the FGC is just constant because of short rounds, and the sportslike nature/natural competition of it just makes people chimp out, and often.

That's my best guess on why, it's the shortest feedback loop of anger that immediately puts people off when a community has been stuck in that loop faster than most. Aggressive autism, truly aggressive autism is just off-putting, and it became the whole consumer base for these after a while. Combine that with devs and the whole industry getting shitty and removing unlocks, THE MAIN REASON YOU DUMPED IN TIME PRE-NET MATCHES, the whole thing just tanks.

I know I'll get shit for this and "not muh fightan gaem, party game!", but I think "Final Destination, no items, Fox only" fully encapulated and did legitimate damage to the memetic zeitgeist of fighting games. When people got together with friends to play the fun dumb four-man fighter and sweats decided to... remove the dumb fun, and carry that attitude across the genre, it stuck, and it stuck in people's head bad.

>>725462297
>Im fine with a multiplayer genre having no players
retard lmao

>>725461962
>early 00s thobeit.
fps games eclipsed fighting games in terms of popularity

>>725462564
Kino

>>725462853
I still find punching bags quite quick in SF6 T8/7 and even granblue though

>>725452065
Players in other genres don't need to pull their punches against online strangers just to survive. This sounds more like a matchmaking issue or an inherent flaw in the genre itself.

>>725445298
to make COTW numbers looks relatively good.

>>725466623
the problem with the genre is a mix of
>other PvP genres have enough players of all skill levels for matchmaking to work properly, or for the shitters to have other shitters to kill.
>other PvP genres arent 1v1
fighting games mix the inverse of both of these statements to create a situation where its literally impossible for new players to get a fair game.
as for how it ended up like this? i've got no clue. best guess is that the fighting game pros just kept pushing people away faster than the rate of replenishment could handle.

there are 5400 Tekken 8 players and 14300 Street Fighter 6 players right now, at 12:45pm on a Monday.

>>725445298
It doesn't fit the narrative, sorry

Fighting games are inherently flawed. Their learning curve is simply not intuitive for a non-autistic person. Rocket League has a skill celling as high as any FG could have but is much more intuitive. That is why it has more CCU than all FGs combined.

>>725461840
And what did the racemixed midget say?

400 is more than enough to find at least someone of your level online though. At least it's not 80 where you're only fighting pros who stuck with the game (UNI)

Bros City of the Wolves just hit historic low price on Fantatical, like 80% off. Should I bite the bullet and try it or just stick to SF6 Mai?

>>725468585
Grok summarized it by saying what basically means he thinks it takes too much work to learn how to be efficient for the reward of winning. Says it scares off new players. He also wished there were more casual modes for people not wanting to grind hundreds of hours losing until they become proficient enough for Master players. He claims FGs are the only competitive genre where legacy skill will carry over and says stuff like mobas, fps and rts require less rote memorization.

tl;dr not worth the effort to learn them so people just give up after getting bullied.

>>725469702
Shows 67% for me but yeah that sounds like a good price to jump in at anyways

>>725469742
But matchmaking makes you play vs someone of your level anyway. This is every game.

>>725445019 (OP)
yjk everyone of those players is a sweaty tryhard left from the game's prime

>Japanese state of play tomorrow

New Tokon character reveal maybe?

>>725470007
His argument is that a new player bronze gets regularly matched up against veterans of fgs in bronze and keeps getting destroyed. He also feels punished for learning combos in training only to not be able to pull them off against real players right away (likely due to the lack of fundamentals).

I'm kind of shocked at how alive GBVS is

>>725452065
>you have to let me win or I'm gone
the absolute state of the modern audience

>>725446350
>Fighting games are simply too difficult
No fighting game is as hard as CS.

>>725470453
I’m more shocked at how dead it is considering it’s the only good fg to release since sfv

>>725470363
Well his opinion is wrong just like most peoples who come up with these meme takes. I don't play fighting games because I don't like them, but the same argument is used in RTS.

Like come on retard, you will not get matched up with someone pro, you will get matched with someone who loses to you 50% of the time. Even if that player has 10k hours, if they lose to you 50% of the time then that is who will get matched against you.

>>725470690
Nah. CS inputs are far simpler than a fighting game. You need a steady aim and know how to click a mouse button. There's also the major fact that it's a team game, so you can play on the defensive while that one team member with 8k hours of gameplay carries your ass to Global

>>725471045
the team aspect of any other game makes them much more palatable to casual players. dealing with the fact that you lost 1v1 to someone else is really hard for a lot of people to take in on an ego level

>>725470692
I wish I liked it more but it's just too boring kinda like SFV for me funnily enough. Loved the mobile game but can't stand the ultra slow grounded footsies on top of the dumb ass new shit rising added. At least SFVI and T8 have actual high/low mixups going on.

>>725470692
It's not enough like SF for SF players and not enough like air dashers for anime players. The game is doomed to be niche, but it's easy enough to pick up and play that people who own Rising will revisit it whenever a new character drops.

Is Fatal Fury worth it or should I wait until Strive is on sale again?

>>725445019 (OP)
>game is exclusively a 1v1 pvp sweat fest, there is nothing else
>you can't be "on a winning team" like in regular pvp games, it's just you alone and you will lose 20 times in a row
why tf would anyone but tryhards bother with this genre?? and how is it not dead yet?

not a troll, genuinely curious. and yes I know every MK game basically includes a multi-hour movie to reel in the normalfags, but is that really enough?

>>725445019 (OP)
If they rereleased mk9 with proper net code (NRS having good net code lmao) fightan would be saved

>>725475494
you would be raped by kabal, kenshi and cyrax online

can one of you autistic retards explain why these numbers somehow indicate the genre is dead when it's one where multiplayer has been historically played locally for the most part and PC isn't a popular platform for that sort of thing? I don't even play fighting games but this seems pretty obvious to me

>>725453101
SF6 and Strive have a ladder system that eventually pushes you towards an SBMM system

>>725476515
Nice that Strive adopted the same system as SF6. ELO is much better than whatever bullshit the japs tried to come up with. Now Tekken 8 S3 needs to implement it as well.

>>725476031
Covid + fighting games finally making the switch from delay to rollback killed off the vast majority of locals. Most now spend the majority of their time online.
People posting these numbers ignore that fighting games besides the latest SF/Tekken always had small playerbases. Not even a behemoth like MK keeps its players for long.

>>725476031
Because online competitive games have seen a large increase in the last decade but fighting games which have been known as one of the penultimate competitive genres has stagnated in player number growth and regressed in certain ways. It's funny because the last 5 years there has seen a large increase in investment by said fighting game devs attempting to grow the competitive space with all of their esports circuits (these didn't really exist at all when fighting games were at their prime of relevancy during the Capcom fighters era of the 90s).

>>725446263
Aquapazza?

>>725445019 (OP)
>Can we save the stagnant genre.
No, you can't. To save fighting games, you'd have to reinvent it into something that turns off the core audience of fighting games, for the sake of getting new blood in.

>>725451513
That Xianghua player is really bad. He could have easily rung out there.

>>725445019 (OP)
no

You'd have to somehow balance pulling in casual players while keeping competitive depth

The only fighting games I care to play are parsec only.

>>725476812
Strive's ladder is absolute dogshit
People with >70% winrate are spending several hours to go up one rank
Placement matches are also wonky as hell

Can't speak about Vanquisher because I haven't put in the time to grind into that shit, but at release I placed Diamond 3 (highest rank) and I got my shit wrecked because I was now fighting top 100 players

>>725445605
>BUH BUH COMBOS
dont. care!
Still having a blast as a noob!

>>725474890
They're not really comparable but COTW really struggles to have a decent playercount, while Strive has a steady playerbase
Uni2 has about the same playercount and despite liking it, I barely want to play it because a lot of the matches are not enjoyable to play due to lag/skill difference

The game itself felt ok when I played it in the beta test but it didn't stick for me

>>725445019 (OP)
wasnt 2XKO supposed to save the genre? but it seems like no one even cares about that game

>>725481690
When does it release? It had some betas right?

>>725481690
What's that?

>>725481690
it's degenerate tagslop but without motion inputs

>>725477015
Rumbleverse was a step in the right direction but the art direction killed the game.

>>725481690
Tag games rarely do well. Also it took too long to come out for how small of a launch roster it has as a tag game.

>>725480728
Thank you, then I'll just keep an eye on Strive for the time being.