Thread 725592670

what's your opinion on RNG in games?

If I pray hard enough I get em, If I don't I wasn't really praying for them anyways. Either way God loves me and HATES you.

>>725592670 (OP)
Can work fine, but the risk vs reward of the action has to be properly balanced against the odds.
I'll use morrowind as an example, and no, not the combat. Lockpicking has no mini game in morrowind, you just use your lockpick on a lock and a dice roll weighted by your stats and the lock strength determines if you succeed. The penalty for losing the dice roll however is just that your lockpick durability goes down a bit and you waste a bit more time, so you're more likely to be caught by a patrolling guard (or you would be if morrowind had functional stealth).
Contrast that with pickpocketing in any post morrowind bethesda game (not counting morrowind itself because it's pickpocket chance formula is borked). Even when you have a like 90% very high chance of succeeding, the reward is massively outweighed by the penalty of being caught, because it immediately throws everything into disarray and you get chased by guards and maybe even the person you tried to rob. Pickpocketing should be a petty crime you do when you're starting off, but in actuality you usually want to wait until you're a master thief before attempting it much in these games.

>>725592670 (OP)
RNG is a shitty left over from the limitations of tabletop games. I hate it. I only like games that reward skill not rolling dice. I kept getting angry in Baldur's gate 3 for instance because you can't get good at the game, only sort of try and mitigate failure a bit but never consistently.
TLDR: I hate gambling, i'd rather play chess.

>>725592670 (OP)
as an rpg/tactics fag im the staunchest defender and like seeing it filter people
but also I play hearthstone and see how bullshit it can be. just this morning I lost for drawing the single bad card, like an 8% chance

>>725592670 (OP)
They never feel like truely random. They always feel loaded.
I cannot stress that EVERY single time the 90% chance to hit with the rocket launcher failed on XCOM EW, it was a must-hit-or-squad-wipe scenario.

When I casually fire at the group of Sectoids because, it always hits. Every time.
When I fire against the zerg rush of Heavy Floaters, Chryssalids and Berseker, that's when I get the 10% chance fails.

>>725593647
>I kept getting angry in Baldur's gate 3 for instance because you can't get good at the game
You are bad.

>>725593647
Managing rng via your build is a skill, just one you're bad at

>>725593647
people beating it on the hardest difficulty + mode that locks you out of savescumming would prove otherwise
but rng in high difficulty games is kind of safe and boring, kind of like playing poker optimally where players check/fold until the ev lets them actually play the game

>>725593454
Yeah I hate pickpockets as much as the next guy but COME ON. It's a fucking fantasy game. Something like the way Altair pickpockets in AC with that little window of confusion on failure, can really make pickpocketing that much more "in universe" if you know what I'm saying

>>725593856
The new xcom games actually manipulate the odds in your favor on all but the highest difficulty, you get an invisible +hit chance modifier every time you miss, which resets when you hit. Actually fair odds often don't feel fair, especially since in nu-xcom you invest a lot into training up your soldiers. Compared to OG xcom where getting a party wiped wasn't actually that bad because your tech upgrades were the main source of progression, and you didn't lose those.

>>725594238
I liked KCD's system for it, it was heavily character skill based, but still gave the player some level of control to where you could back out if you though it was getting too dicey

>>725593647
It's absolutely skill based bro. The skill is just in learning a system, and building/synergizing so that the RNG is in your favor. You can be really good at that or really shitty at those skills. If it was actually pure luck, then no one would ever be able to beat Honor mode in BG3.

>>725593946
>>725594104
Getting good at the game is trying to minimize failure as much as possible but as good as you get you still have to pass a randomized dice roll. I just don't like gambling, simple as. I don't get mad if miss a 10% chance. But I do get mad when I did everything to perfection the optimal strategy that I've learned through playing the game endlessly and because of that have a 90+% chance to succeed and still get fucked anyway.

>>725595372
Do you think casinos gamble? Because they don't. If odds are stacked enough in your favor you're going to win eventually no matter what.

>>725595372
>I do get mad when I did everything to perfection the optimal strategy that I've learned through playing the game endlessly and because of that have a 90+% chance to succeed and still get fucked anyway.
DSP ass nigga. Give us one example where you played perfectly and still lost.

>>725595627
I know that 9/10 times I play out the optimal strategy on average I will get it 9 out of 10 times. But I will still get mad about the one time I don't when I did it exactly the same way as the other times. I just like consistency. Make me fail when I don't do it right so that I can blame myself, so that I can see what I did wrong and improve myself. I just like to have total control over my success and failures.

>>725596536
stick to deterministic games

>>725596536
If you have a 10% chance to get fucked you already failed. You'll be in dicey situations like that more than 10x throughout a campaign so failure was almost guaranteed.
Although I suspect more people don't even fail, they just lose a soldier and ragequit despite the fact that the game is supposed to have setbacks

>>725595372
The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

>>725595832
Love this webm

>>725595832
i'll never understand why so many people like this dogshit over the originals kek

>>725596996
It's all cause and effect however, not random. It just seems that way because it looks chaotic.

>>725597295
There is no distinction between a sufficiently complex pattern and randomness, actually. Also your computer isn't capable of randomness in any reasonable sense of the word. There is cause and effect (possibly, reality is very much seemingly stochastic on a microscopic scale but it's naturally impossible to know for sure), but your mind is too small to conceive of it, and your ability to control things is quite limited. Rather than being able to express an infinitude of unforseen consequences, it's just as good to use a mersenne-twister to arrive at the same result. You can reason and find the pattern a PRNG much more easily than you can reason about any normally chaotic system, so what's the problem?

I'll take you up on that chess game OP, but with one additional rule:
A capture is only successful if you can correctly call the outcome of a coin flip.
I'm notoriously bad at chess, I refuse to study it or learn strategies. But I bet I'll table a grand master with some simple non-determinism in play if they're bad with uncertainty.

>>725597095
Being fully 3D and having an intuitive cover system after a half decade of Gears of War clones drew in a lot of people who weren't really into these sorts of games before.
It being a stylized turn-based game probably also attracted a bunch of JRPG weebs who are retarded and could never handle the original X-COM but who think they're smart for being able to play this.

>>725592670 (OP)
It's fine but not having an even a single animation that shows a plausible reason why it's a miss and instead shows your character mag dump directly into the enemy with a shitty pop up that says miss is faggotry. You're already cutting a dozen corners with a shitty grid based turn based combat system so a few more animations are literally the least you could do.