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Anonymous No.725816046 [Report] >>725816635 >>725816902 >>725817125 >>725817201 >>725818768 >>725819071 >>725819762 >>725820848 >>725821420 >>725822084 >>725823647
How did Valve out-engineer a company that's literally 200 times their size? I don't get it.
Anonymous No.725816129 [Report]
bureaucracy bloat
Anonymous No.725816190 [Report] >>725816446 >>725818668
>buying another router to use a headset
Anonymous No.725816335 [Report]
Valve uses the stuff they make.
Anonymous No.725816446 [Report] >>725819328
>>725816190
Truly simpler than plugging in a cable
Anonymous No.725816635 [Report] >>725816761 >>725818193
>>725816046 (OP)
being big isn't exactly a good thing

meta didn't make their headsets for gamers, they made it for some nonsense idea of the metaverse where everyone would be in their ecosystem holding business meetings and shit.
they didn't know who their actual market was, or what their actual market would have wanted, and killed VR in the process by forcing everyone into their shit ecosystem that they thought people would be using to have business meetings and shit with.
Anonymous No.725816761 [Report] >>725817125 >>725817439
>>725816635
IBM was smart enough to let a small group rapidly create the original PC and it was a hit. Why the hell can't companies figure this out?
Anonymous No.725816902 [Report] >>725819449
>>725816046 (OP)
Those headsets have equal displays and optics

The quest 3 has color passthrough, a time of flight depth sensor that can map your space for AR, and controllerless hand tracking. Valve has none of that and the frame is quest 2 technology in this area, just IR LED tracking with no computer vision

Zuck doesn't care about PC wireless much because they don't make money off it. Every time you buy a headset for just PCVR and don't use the meta store, zuck loses money because he subsidized the headset to sell software.

Zuck already did eyetracking with the quest pro. Valve's interest in it was foveated encoding, which again zuck doesn't care about wireless PCVR. John carmack pointed out foveated rendering isn't as desirable on standalone games because you use so much processing and power to track the eyes, that's processing and power you can't use on running the game with better graphics. Some of the benefit is cancelled.

Frame completely mogs quest 3 on ergonomics and weight, which isn't really engineering it's just not being retarded. But it may be $900 so many people will astutely ask why pay almost twice the cost over the quest 3. It's unknown if valve will subsidize the cost because frame is a general computer and hardware sales may not result in steam game sales enough of the time.
Anonymous No.725816931 [Report]
dex > str
Anonymous No.725817125 [Report]
>>725816046 (OP)
>"We have a ridiculous amount of people and resources, but we constantly self-sabotage and squander effort,"
>"There is no way to sugar coat this; I think our organization is operating at half the effectiveness that would make me happy."
>The executive said that as "a voice at the highest levels," he felt like he should've been able to move things along, but he was "evidently not persuasive enough."
>"I have never been able to kill stupid things before they cause damage, or set a direction and have a team actually stick to it,"
This is coming from Carmack when he left Meta btw. Meta was working at a kind of efficiency that had him posting about shotgun headsets, because it's presumably so completely drowned in office politics shit.
>>725816761
>Carmack subscribes to the philosophy that small, incremental steps are the fastest route to meaningful and disruptive innovation.
There are obviously people in the company who believe in it, but there are a lot of people who don't and will autistically hoard everything.
A lot of it can be presumably laid at the feet of the changes to IP law that happened between then and now, given laws like the DMCA and other bullshit that was primarily concerned with closing the door behind companies that had already made a profit by exploiting perceived gaps.
Anonymous No.725817201 [Report]
>>725816046 (OP)
They literally just did pic related though.
Wi-Fi 6E 6GHz band direct connection between USB adapter and headset.
Anonymous No.725817356 [Report]
wifi shit does not belong next to your head.
Anonymous No.725817386 [Report]
They didn't, have you even seen Meta orion? You're fucking retarded.
Anonymous No.725817439 [Report] >>725823290
>>725816761
It's way too complicated, watch Silicon Valley, they did a good job of representing the shareholder meetings and the CEOs. Nothing "just gets done", there have to be executive decisions, meetings, sign-offs, etc. There are politics involved, if you vote against Bob's idea he might be the vice president next month and demote you out of spite for shitting on his idea in front of the shareholders.

Or the CEO might want to Bob to fail to make himself look good so he funds Bob's terrible idea with $100m (chump change to tech giants) and then everyone working in Bob's department gets downsized. Then the CEO swoops in and "fixes" the shitty idea saving (from their perspective) the company millions and giving the CEO more clout.

Gaben isn't a businessman, he's just a coder who thought Doom was badass and started his own company for fun (otherwise he was going to retire at 34). Valve is NOT a publicly traded company. There are zero shareholders Gabe answers to. There is no one impeding him or threatening to oust him from his leadership position.
Anonymous No.725817925 [Report] >>725818060 >>725818150
Do I really need to get a new router for steam frame? The wifi signal barely reaches my pc room.
Anonymous No.725818060 [Report] >>725818104
>>725817925
No. You get a USB dongle that creates a 6GHz Wi-Fi connection between it and the headset directly. The 6GHz band is particularly great because it's less likely to be crowded since almost no device uses and AND it has shitty wall penetration meaning that connection stays in the room and no interfering connection should get into the room. The headset can at the same time just connect to your regular Wi-Fi for regular stuff or streaming if you're outside of the room with the dongle.
Anonymous No.725818104 [Report]
>>725818060
uses it AND*
Anonymous No.725818150 [Report]
>>725817925
no, you can just choose not to get one.
Anonymous No.725818193 [Report] >>725818819 >>725825587
>>725816635
>killed VR in the process
There is honestly nothing funnier than VR cult revisionists who insist that Zuck killed VR by... making the cheapest headset and selling it at a loss.

I hate the fucking guy, but he probably sold more VR slop than all of the OEMs combined. This new headset is literally just a shittier version of the quest 3 in terms of specs, but with better steam integration. Which would be nice, if SteamVR didn't still feel like a pre-alpha version after a decade of development.
Anonymous No.725818202 [Report] >>725818283 >>725819016
I'm near sighted
do I have to wear my shit ass glasses to use VR? this would kill it for me
Anonymous No.725818283 [Report] >>725818392 >>725819016
>>725818202
Yes. VR with glasses is complete dogshit, ignore anyone who suggests you can live with it. If you aren't wearing contacts, you will have a crappier FOV and a crappier general experience.
Anonymous No.725818392 [Report] >>725818616 >>725818791
>>725818283
why the fuck do i need glasses if the screen is on my damn face
this is fucking gay I really wanted to try vr
Anonymous No.725818585 [Report]
but thou MUST wear a ye olde condome
Anonymous No.725818616 [Report]
>>725818392
Because the lenses make the focal plane of that screen much further away, about 15 feet or something.

Don't worry, you really aren't missing anything. I recommend picking up a cheap headset and then reselling it after if you really want to try VR, it's a complete waste of time and the only people still promoting it are VRchat trannies who are terrified of being alone. It adds basically nothing to games, and just makes setup a chore.
Anonymous No.725818668 [Report]
>>725816190
>buying another router to use a headset
If you want wireless play on the Meta Quest 3, it's not really an optional purchase if you don't have access to 6e and/or direct LOS to the existing router.
Anonymous No.725818768 [Report]
>>725816046 (OP)
valve isn't publicly traded like meta, so there's less pressure to hire troons and jeets
Anonymous No.725818791 [Report] >>725819034
>>725818392
you can buy prescription lenses for the VR too
Anonymous No.725818819 [Report] >>725819214 >>725819923
>>725818193
>No Linux support for the CV1 or any headset up until wireless streaming
>Standalone headsets are all locked down Android spins that needlessly block off developer modes
>Every headset that uses the same IR tracking needs its own special controller and isn't compatible with anything else and has no published open standards
>Walled gardens
>Wasting money on the anti-marketing that is Horizon and Metaverse slop
Meta slowed VR down by a lot.
Anonymous No.725819016 [Report] >>725819085
>>725818202
>>725818283
I'm near-sighted and can use VR headsets with perfect clarity, it depends entirely on how near-sighted you are. I'm good for up to 5-ish meters before license plates become unreadable.
Anonymous No.725819034 [Report] >>725819214
>>725818791
how does that work
can you just pop the lenses out without fucking it up or what
Anonymous No.725819071 [Report]
>>725816046 (OP)
Suits ruin EVERYTHING. Gay ben isn't a suit, and has the good sense to not employ them.
Anonymous No.725819085 [Report] >>725819865
>>725819016
>I'm good for up to 5-ish meters before license plates become unreadable.
I can't even see a foot in front of me without things getting blurry
if I have something in my lap I can't read it unless I hunch over
Anonymous No.725819214 [Report] >>725819689
>>725818819
>Linux
Nobody cares.
>Standalone headsets are all locked down Android
Yes, welcome to loss leader tactics. You get the headset cheap, but you have to buy the games on their faggot store. You can still sideload everything.
>>Every headset that uses the same IR tracking needs its own special controller and isn't compatible with anything else
Yes, welcome to patent hell. Valve's attempt, the lighthouses, wound up creating exactly ZERO third party controllers, because nobody wanted to pay the extortionate licensing fees. Best you got were the trackers, which Valve then fucked up with a software update to kill half the functionality because they didn't want anyone making their own DIY controllers.

>>725819034
They're bulky garbage that goes over the existing lenses, so you get all the same FOV issues but now when you take the headset off you have to find your glasses first before you can adjust the setting or whatever you needed to get the game to run properly.
Anonymous No.725819328 [Report] >>725819701 >>725826543
>>725816446
Valve finally convinced me to bite the bullet on BSB. Can't believe they dropped the ball so hard on lighthouse ecosystem support.
t. Index owner
Anonymous No.725819449 [Report] >>725822665
>>725816902
>Frame completely mogs quest 3 on ergonomics and weight, which isn't really engineering it's just not being retarded
Weight reduction is the essence of engineering.
Anonymous No.725819689 [Report] >>725820242 >>725820697
>>725819214
>Nobody cares.
Yes, let's design a custom VR software for Windows. Compare the swathes of VR desktops that came and went (due to lack of actual VR headsets) on Linux to the complete lack of anything on Windows.
>Yes, welcome to loss leader tactics. You get the headset cheap, but you have to buy the games on their faggot store. You can still sideload everything.
And that means the UI and software is stuck being exactly as shit as the corporation that designed it. It's also a PCVR headset and I'm not buying shit on their store, so it's not a loss leader.
>Yes, welcome to patent hell. Valve's attempt, the lighthouses, wound up creating exactly ZERO third party controllers, because nobody wanted to pay the extortionate licensing fees. Best you got were the trackers, which Valve then fucked up with a software update to kill half the functionality because they didn't want anyone making their own DIY controllers.
While I do agree that patents are shit, there are some 3rd party controllers in the lighthouse ecosystem.
Anonymous No.725819701 [Report]
>>725819328
>Can't believe they dropped the ball so hard on lighthouse ecosystem support.
Really? Have you not been paying attention to what they've been doing with it for the past decade?

First, they release the lighthouses in partnership with HTC. These are good tech. They torpedo the Vive wands because they are mentally ill retards who believe the trackpad is the "future" and nobody will want analog locomotion in VR. They are completely trounced by everyone else in the market, who just use analog sticks.

Next, Valve set out on their own. They cut the budget on their lighthouses, making them less accurate, cheaper, and filled with hardware and software flaws, while slightly increasing their range and letting you use more than 2 at once. Next, they design their own controllers, this time adding a thumbstick, but they aren't finished with the trackpad meme yet! They put it front and center, moving the thumbsticks to an uncomfortable secondary location where they feel like shit to use, and they use the cheapest garbage sticks they can find so everyone gets stick drift.

While this whole shitshow is going on, they also fuck around with trackers, which are incredibly expensive. The first gen allows you to use USB host protocols to send input data through the tracker, so you can build your own controller using the tracker, which isn't ideal because the trackers are kind of shit, but hey, it's a step in the right direction. They remove this functionality in the later trackers, and also disable it in SteamVR. Now, you get 3 digital buttons on a tracker that you can hook into with the pogo pins. That's it. They also don't provide any real documentation, and expect you to spend thousands of dollars running through their qualification program to use any of these features.

And you thought they were going to "support" lighthouse? They didn't fucking support it at all, they tried their hardest to kill it.
Anonymous No.725819762 [Report] >>725820464
>>725816046 (OP)
The bigger quest is what the hell did Zuckerberg spend 75 billion on while pursuing the metaverse?
Anonymous No.725819865 [Report]
>>725819085
Yeah you'll need to order some headset lenses with your prescription.
Anonymous No.725819923 [Report]
>>725818819
Weirdly enough, without meta doing all that, there would be no opening in the market Valve could use to get enough steam behind their hypetrain.
Meta fumbled, so valve could run.
Anonymous No.725820242 [Report]
>>725819689
>Compare the swathes of VR desktops that came and went (due to lack of actual VR headsets) on Linux
VR desktops will not be viable until 8k per eye is viable, I'm sorry you're blind. Virtual Desktop works fine, as does SteamVR's crappy desktop view. I'm sure there were lots of crappy prototypes on Linux, but they didn't fail because of a lack of software support. They failed due to a lack of interest, the guy making them probably tried them out for the first time and realised the resolution of commercial headsets is laughably low and impossible to make work.

>UI and software is stuck being exactly as shit as the corporation that designed it.
VR is a dead field. SteamVR has been dogshit since its inception, where is the third party replacement? Oh, right, nowhere. Because nobody cares enough to make one, because VR is dead.

>there are some 3rd party controllers in the lighthouse ecosystem.
My bad, I haven't looked into it in a few years. Pimax is awful, Etee doesn't even have any buttons because they're pure finger trackers, FlipVR is dead and the replacement GripVR looks shit too.
Anonymous No.725820464 [Report]
>>725819762
It was to divert attention from the scandals Facebook was facing at the time.
Anonymous No.725820697 [Report] >>725821106
>>725819689
>the UI and software is stuck being exactly as shit as the corporation that designed it.
Currently theres only one way to design palatable UI for VR and its fucking Material Design guidelines, which is fucking awful, but at least its serviceable. Im not even joking anything that walks off that beaten path is almost inevitably dogshit. I do hope that with frame in the picture more people would throw down their gauntlets for this particular challenge.
Anonymous No.725820848 [Report]
>>725816046 (OP)
just hire hardware engineers, choose components wisely and design a system that works
the only tech that valve would have actually engineered from near scratch was proton, steamos and FEX
Anonymous No.725821106 [Report] >>725821662
>>725820697
What you don't understand is that it's not a challenge that needs solving. It's a visual fidelity issue that's hardware based.

It's a bit extreme, but your "can we have a genius fix this for us???" shit is like buying a TRS-80 model 100 and going "right, this is great, but I need to display more than 8 lines of text at once, I'm thinking like 100 lines worth of text, can anyone fix this with a software solution for me?".

No, they can't. Because your issue is hardware, and with VR it's resolution. You can't make a good visual design language for VR because all you can do is make massive vision obscuring pop up windows with massive text, because otherwise users can't see anything. The solution to your issue is higher resolution, which makes text readable with smaller FOV coverage. Now you can fit way more menus into a visual field, and you can do it without obscuring most of the visual field.
Anonymous No.725821420 [Report]
>>725816046 (OP)
It's not almost entirely H1Bs.
Anonymous No.725821662 [Report] >>725822057
>>725821106
Resolution is key showstopper, yes, but its not the only one. Granularity of input is another issue - motion controls are even less precise than touch input, so making denser interfaces is not really an option.
In context of vr desktop environment, memerice minimalist linux way with keyboard driven workflow with hotkeys and quickfire terminal commands/dynami menus seems like only feasible way besides fuck you yuge windows and buttons.
Anonymous No.725822034 [Report]
Isn't it great that once companies get too big they start getting held back by their own weight? It's like a self correcting mechanism built into the system. Imagine if the big players could move just as fast as when they started small. We'd be living in an even worse dystopian nightmare.
Anonymous No.725822057 [Report] >>725823148
>>725821662
That sounds like a hot mess. I agree that motion controls are a poor input source due to hand movement requiring some heavy smoothing, the best option is probably vision based tracking but I don't think eye tracking accuracy is really up to snuff due to saccades. Best you can probably do is a hybrid system where the eye puts you in the ballpark, and large hand movements move a cursor around that area. Would be disorienting, though.

Ultimately, I think there's no real replacement for the mouse. I don't hate eye tracking as a way to quick move the mouse around the display and between discrete displays, though. That could be quite nice.

Vim shit is never going to be the default, only retards waste time with that shit.
Anonymous No.725822084 [Report] >>725824259
>>725816046 (OP)
Fewer women and DEI hires on staff.
Anonymous No.725822665 [Report]
>>725819449
deploy the pigeons
Anonymous No.725823148 [Report]
>>725822057
vimshit is definitely retarded, but it sidesteps so many of the issues it just might be actually worth it in this context.
Computing as we know it is mostly text manipulation and vim way is one of the most effective, if counter intuitive, text manipulation workflows that exists at the moment.
Anonymous No.725823290 [Report]
>>725817439
>Valve is NOT a publicly traded company. There are zero shareholders Gabe answers to. There is no one impeding him or threatening to oust him from his leadership position.

That’s unironically a good thing.
Anonymous No.725823532 [Report]
Meta makes things for consumers.
Valve makes things for GAMERS.
Anonymous No.725823647 [Report] >>725824259
>>725816046 (OP)
It is really simple
Anonymous No.725824259 [Report]
>>725823647
>>725822084
Tourist opinions, go back.
Facebook's worst VR decisions are made by Zuckerberg and Bozworth, not exactly diversity hires. They fundamentally did not want to make a good gaming VR device, they only wanted a smart glasses trojan horse, that thankfully didn't meaningfully work.
Anonymous No.725825587 [Report]
>>725818193
vr would have been better off pc-focused and open sourced. but zuck wanted to turn it into the new smartphone. then that failed and he abandoned the whole thing he renamed his company after, but already locked the majority of people into the meta ecosystem. it was a net negative for VR
zuck of course hasn't given up on being the new iphone, and is now invested in AR glasses, hoping that he will be the king of the new smartphone in the future, and everyone will have to go through him to sell apps.


if i was him, i'd have literally just made the headset come with a free flat2vr injector for the meta quest like we eventually got with unreal engine games, and a video player for 8k video so people can play vrporn and their steamgames out of the box.
Anonymous No.725826065 [Report]
Valve waited until Meta did all the work and then copied it. Meta figured out low latency VR streaming first, figured out foveated rendering first, figured out pancake lenses, figured out automatic room detection so you don't have to designate a play space manually, figured out how to get dual 4K screens and an audio stream down to fucking USB 2.0 bandwidth, made the first widely adopted standalone headset, occupies the majority of Steam's VR devices, and Valve just sat on their fat fucking asses and waited until it stagnated a little and they could package it in a slightly more convenient form and then sell it for a thousand dollars by slapping their name on it.
Anonymous No.725826543 [Report]
>>725819328
no, you're just a vrchat troon.
Go die