Why did arena shooters die?

>>1630250 (OP)
Because they stopped being made, essentially. Epic Games sidelined UT the moment Gears and UE3 licenses became their cash cows, putting very little effort into UT3 and releasing it as a buggy unifinished mess. They then doubled down on UT4 by handling a lot of work to "the community" and lost what little interest they had once Fortnite became big.
Quake likewise got largely abandoned by id after the 4th installment, with them putting out Quake Live which is just a slightly different Quake 3 and then Quake Champions, which got next to zero marketing and was handed off to an outsourced company before being brought back to a skeleton team at id, updates were slow and unsubstantial.
The rest are all just indie arena shooters that largely just copypaste Quake 3 with some small twists, with a few exceptions like Toxikk which did that with UT2k4 instead, so ultimately the few arena shooters that got made were targeted at niche crowds of fans of old games. Nobody Has tried making a big arena shooter with a proper marketing campaign since probably Quake 4.

In the 2010s, AFPS games rarely handled multiplayer in the way that newfound PC consumers were expecting/wanting after years of being on console + many current games now using Steamworks to handle everything. Existing players had extremely high standards for any new releases, and even if they met all their expectations, it was still tough to compete with already being set up and liking the older games + the years/decades of content they had for them. It was enough of a gap for them to fall off.

And now, it's even worse, because the average player would expect things like a complex queue system that makes random public matches "fair," and you'd have to make it a job in one way or another. Something where people always have something to work towards, rather than just having fun.

>>1630296
>Nobody Has tried making a big arena shooter with a proper marketing campaign since probably Quake 4.
Very conveniently ignoring Diabotical which had an insanely large initial round of funding via kickstarter on top of an Epic exclusivity deal after all the kickstarter money was spent on high-end whiskey.
As someone who plays a lot of Quake, nothing is going to get me off this game (in this genre) unless there are some crazy twists to the formula that aren't ultimately just casual retention methods.

>>1632405
Not him, but Diabotical getting funding doesn't mean it was all that big of a release, and it certainly doesn't mean that they actually marketed it. The amount of people that actually knew that Diabotical was floating around was probably a 4 digit number, and it doesn't help that the vast majority of them then wanted to have nothing to do with the EGS (which is understandable, as Legendary wasn't out during the beta days)

The closest any AFPS in the past decade or so has come to actually being a big release with at least some marketing behind it was Champions, and they fumbled the ball hard with its weird ass release method that also requires the shitty Bethesda Launcher to access.

>>1632405
Diabolical is a Quake 3 clone, and it isn't "big" by any means, their kickstarter page lists a total of £168,314 that's peanuts for game development. It was a niche project aimed at veterans like I addressed in my post.

The last good/fun one was doom 2016

>>1630250 (OP)
i wish more younger people played, just to make servers feel more interesting. About half the people i meet on ql are over 60, legit retirement home simulator lmao

>>1638368
>Quake Live
Younger players just really do not care for Quake. Personally, I blame all the negative association it's garnered over the years; it was THE game to name if you wanted to lie for empty kudos, and if you actually did play it, you were usually a faggot that obsessed over duels. In any case, if it's anyone under 30 playing an AFPS game, it'd be anything else without Quake's name on it, and it seriously seems to just be the name. They'll play Xonotic and Open Fortress all day long, no qualms with the actual gameplay.

Although, granted, most of them also just prefer to play in their private friend groups on servers they host themselves, so that knocks things down a notch further.

>>1638755
younger players are playing arena fps mods on roblox

iD stopped making them and Epic stopped giving a fuck after UT 3.

>>1630296
UT3 worked fine though.

>>1630250 (OP)
Because they existed primarily on their ability to host user-generated content like maps and silly gamemodes. Anyone claiming that everyone spent their days hardcore dueling in QIII is lying.

Also all attempts to make another arena shooter inevitably fall into one of these results:
>It's not enough like Quake III which is perfect with no faults so there's no point in it existing
>It's too much like Quake III and how dare you try to make me buy the same game twice you fucking jew

>>1639875
Demoguy bug on release? Cluttered gritty visuals with bad visibility? Gamemodes and general content lacking from 2k4? Ridiculous single player story with "respawners" and silly justifications for stealing flags? Yes, I understand that it wasn't a total disaster and the gameplay is mostly fine, but the community's reception to it was pretty negative and it died really fast even though 2k4 and 99 were both still going really strong at the time.

>>1640395
>Anyone claiming that everyone spent their days hardcore dueling in QIII is lying.
Sure, but there's an argument to be made that today there is much more demand for competitive gamemodes, see how Counter Strike changed from being about community servers hosting a million mods to being very focused on competition. Although it still has a healthy casual community playing surf maps and the like. I think a successful modern arena shooter could provide both a competitive mode and strong mod support. I also think I would like to be a millionaire.

Because they're fucking BORING.
>who can be the better aimbot
literally zero brainpower needed

>>1641415
What the actual fuck am I reading, AFPS require keeping track of a shitload of things and making split-second decisions all the time. Hence why someone like Rapha is better than someone like Clawz who arguably has better aim.

>>1630250 (OP)
they aint dead, it filters more than it brings in
and only the based sticks around and adapts to the arena

https://challonge.com/ReflexArenaGREED

>>1647539
>only the based sticks around
>proceeds to post reflex arena with duelnigger bullshit
>based
I lol, genuinely. A mighty chortle erupts from within me.

>>1641415
the majority of people being stupid and terrible at literally every conceivable thing they can do, like this poster here, is the reason AFPS is "dead." and by "dead" I mean "has the same playerbase it's always had, but relative to the number of people playing video games now vs then that becomes a minority of gamers." fuck man COVID was not nearly lethal enough. we keep cock teasing violent civil war too but you fucks just won't go through with it. will you at least all kill yourselves or something?

>>1647622
posted a cup that was happenin just now, u can play whatever arena u like, dont have to be reflex, silly billy, and it dont have to be duel, can be any mode u enjoy

>>1630250 (OP)
they were replaced by call of duty and hero shooters

>>1647680
>has the same playerbase it's always had
Where are the ~2000 people I use to see daily in UT99 back in 2005?

>>1647680
>has the same playerbase it's always had, but relative to the number of people playing video games now vs then that becomes a minority of gamers
this is blatantly untrue

I'd be down to play an Arena Shooter, if people want to schedule a time. I have a server that can run a few things.

>>1632405
>on top of an Epic exclusivity deal
This is literally what killed that game tho. You do realize this, right?
They did that at the peak of the EGS hate and a lot of people who had donated had expected a steam release.
They lost all good will they had. Its was a very active and successful boycott.
>>1632805
>The closest any AFPS in the past decade or so has come to actually being a big release with at least some marketing behind it was Champions, and they fumbled the ball hard with its weird ass release method that also requires the shitty Bethesda Launcher to access.
This. The launcher AND the really fucked netcode is what killed champs more than anything else. Sure the heroes were derided (mostly rightfully) but it was the terrible lag and trash netcode Bethesda online services offered.
I could imagine it'd have done reasonably well if they used steamworks for the online, rather than the janky besthesda online

>>1653192
>This is literally what killed that game tho. You do realize this, right?
This is such an insane cope. The game died because it was Quake 3 2.

>>1653205
Not him, but no it was 100% the fact that it was on the EGS. People were excited for it as a Q3A clone for once, as the idea was that it was going to navigate the pitfalls that Quake Champions was stumbling into, and provide a fantastic entry point to pull new players into the genre. Being on the EGS killed all that, as the only people who readily install that launcher are the people who will only play Fortnite and Fall Guys.

>>1653590
>Not him, but no it was 100% the fact that it was on the EGS.
Nope
> People were excited for it as a Q3A clone for once
Except all the people who just kept playing QuakeWorld/2/3/Live
> as the only people who readily install that launcher are the people who will only play Fortnite and Fall Guys.
Nah, most Quake players aren't even using Steam, if they had issues with a launcher they had issues with a launcher in general, including Steam. Every single Quake player I know that was willing to try Diabotical didn't say shit about the launcher. The only people "boycotting" it on grounds of the EGS were posers who don't actually play Quake but love to pretend that they do.

>>1653686
>Except all the people who just kept playing QuakeWorld/2/3/Live
Read the post
>Nah, most Quake players
READ THE POST

>>1653695
The post says the game died because of EGS which is just revisionist cope for people who were never going to play the game anyway.

>>1653708
Anon, if you were just gonna stay within your preconceived fantasy instead of actually reading and engaging with other people's posts, then why are you posting on a message board?

I think i did crack the reason why the other day for real

I used to play Halo 2 a lot back then. I used to go to LAN parties a lot on the OG Xbox. The thing is that Halo made console shooters really popular and everyone tried to duplicate Halo in a way or two and failed. But the thing is that Halo played fine on a console because it was designed to be played with a controller from the ground up.

Halo is an arena shooter, but Bungoe knew that aiming with a gamepad sucked cock, even with the great and precise Duke. Halo has a fuckton of AA, hitscan and leading, solving more or less the game of "aiming". To compensate though, it made player tankier and all about the combos and positioning and grenades and shields and etc. Because the game was solved at aiming so it needed more. Unlike Quake and UT, where the whole idea is to shoot projectiles and dodge with a mouse, consoles just dont hold a candle like that. Then CoD came, which was still a bit of a DM arena shooter, but just skipped aiming as well with ADS AA. Then they cheapened with gamepads, making them worse and shittier. But it didnt mattered because the software could just do the aiming for you and focus the game design in another kind of dopamine. Aiming in a shooter, ironically, became the least important part, unlike Arena Shooters of the past which is the entire idea.

Arena Shooter by definition is to enter an arena, pick up weapons and gadgets and duke it out in skill. But since AA is so predominant in games today, skill needs to be leveled and the gameplay needs to be granular, and even more now with microtransactions, unlockables and skins and battlepass. Its not about the pure raw gameplay but a more controlled skinner box. The logical evolution now is to go full PvE next.

So its not about them being bad or outdated, its that nobody with power to develop one would do so, and nobody realistically would care outside pc. And it would be hard to top UT2004 for instance.

>>1630250 (OP)
The desire for realism is my simple opinion.

https://challonge.com/hccna
come play warfork today n frag up

>>1630250 (OP)
They can't be monetized, and community-owned servers can't be controlled.

>>1630296
this guy has no idea what he’s talking about.

https://nquake.com/
Games tonight between 9pm - 2am EDT. It is free and we are all nice. Stop making excuses for why you don't play AFPS. Come join!

https://challonge.com/Eggduel
March 29 at 2:00 PM CDT
maps:

Frontier
Bioplant
Pav X
Sanctum
Raya

All sets best of 3

All finals best of 5

Pick/bans
Upper Seed picks first
Lower Seed bans first
UP-Picks>LOW-Bans-Picks>UP-Bans>leftover map is tiebreaker
Open for all regions, please set up server that gives even ping between both players, or pick a server with both players having above 120-200 ping and play on server settings that helps with the la
50$ prize pool
17 sign ups

>>1685255
>>1695657
I don't have excuses. I have Quake entirely set up, including my own server that I went through a few different sourceports to find the best setup for co-op and quakeworld

I just won't play Quake because I don't like it that much

what is currently the least dead arena shooter with no bullshit hero shooter elements? I've been playing sauerbraten which is fun even if it's mostly just the same 20-30 guys playing instagib.

>>1630250 (OP)
i wish we had active free fps like quake live rn bros

>>1696354
I think 20-30 at a time is roughly the top end. You can usually find that amount of people playing Xonotic as well.

>>1630250 (OP)
Arena shooter macro strategy sucks, Pickup timers aren't fun
We need more games that use arena shooter micro mechanics, but different macro gameplay. TF2 did it well, but I'd like to see more

>>1696755
honestly I don't care about any of that I just want move fast and shoot fast

>>1696406
QuakeWorld
nquake.com

>>1630296
Pretty much this. Didn't help that its trailer said "From the makers of Gears of War" That just goes to show who they were targeting (the console audience) and saw UT and the PC crowd as an afterthought. Also Digital Extreme was no longer involved with co-developing UT and it really did show. UT3 is fine in terms of how it plays, but it felt like too much like Gears of War and no longer had that tone Unreal had up to that point.
But Arena in particular is fun up to a point, but it doesn't have gameplay loop or replay value that something its deriatives like Team Fortress had. In other words, if you got bored playing a specific class, you went to another and it felt like a completely different way to play the game. Quake/Unreal all felt the same no matter what gameplay mode you were in. It also didn't help that as the community got smaller, it meant the skill ceiling it was more fucked up as newcomers couldn't go toe to toe against sweats who know every facet of every map/weapon.
Still love them to death and UT2k4 is still one of my favorite games.

>>1659473
>Halo is an arena shooter,
No it isn't. Halo fans need to understand that. And you know why it isn't? Because Halo misses one crucial element of arena shooters and thats speed. When you're jumping around in Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament, that is one of the core elements of being able to thwart your opponent. In Halo, if you jump, you're a sitting duck and will be killed outright by someone with a sniper rifle. You move too slowly in the game and in open fields its a death sentence. Meanwhile anyone with a rocket launcher in Quake 3 can easily close the gap to their opponent and out play them even if they have a railgun.
Oh and not to mention regeneration and 2 weapons only. All of its antithetical to arena shooters.

>>1631506
> because the average player would expect things like a complex queue system that makes random public matches "fair," and you'd have to make it a job in one way or another. Something where people always have something to work towards, rather than just having fun.
Reminds me of how the worst thing about Halo Infinite was realizing that I preferred chasing battlepass garbage to just playing for fun. It's like my brain is truly broken after 20 years of shit design.

I used to play a ton of CS online, but arena shooters were always the most fun on LAN. Something is lost in queued online matches with randos. No rivalries, seeing the same opponents crop up. I just wanna shoot at my friends. Matchmaking was a mistake.

>>1696605
>Xonotic
thanks for recommending this I don't know how I missed it all this time

https://challonge.com/Eggduel2
Single Elim DBT Duel April 12th at 2:00 PM CDT (Chicago Time)
Maps
Axiom (Client Prediction Glitch may affect the void ray)
Darkness
Cathedra
Machine
Eclipse
https://challonge.com/ReflexSimpCup
One map reflex Duel cup April 5 at 1:00 PM CDT (chicago time)
Map: Simplicity

>>1630250 (OP)
They didnt. Just play them instead of being a cuck and worrying about player numbers

>>1630250 (OP)
Lack of innovation in any of the modes. People dont want to load in and get decimated any more by sweats. You need some sort of way to contribute to goals while being shit. Youre useless in afps if you cant frag or have extremely good movement. The modes suck and there have been barely any attempts at modernizing movement and flow. FRAG LIKE ITS 1999 type shit doesnt work.

>>1684908
What's your model?

>>1705544
The Siege mod for UT99 imo has massive potential if someone tried to make a proper game based off of it, it introduces resource management and base building so that even if you're a shitter you can still contribute (source: I played the shit out of it when I was a shitter).
The gameplay is too altered to be properly called an arena shooter though, there aren't many pick-ups in the map and you get weapons by building a supplier at your base.

>>1705544
Man, people always say this shit confidently and it's never actually true. Actually go play something like UT2004 before you start yapping.

>>1705544
>Youre useless in afps if you cant frag or have extremely good movement.
Completely false in team deathmatch.

>>1705586
Bombing run is fun

>>1705849
Yeah okay man...

>>1706370
Bombing Run definitely is the main one, since Unreal doesn't put as much on movement tech and you don't even need to aim to pass the ball, but then there's also VCTF, Onslaught, and to a lesser extent Assault that allow subpar players to still contribute pretty easily, thanks to the objectives and to vehicles.

>>1706372
No need to reply if you don't actually play Quake, anon.

>>1706383
Maybe in qc shitter noob tdm

>>1630250 (OP)
Aren't all FPS games just arena games with extra steps?

>>1706425
You do not need crazy movement or fragging skills to be useful in a game of QW TDM.

>>1630250 (OP)
Because John Carmack is a bitch

>>1641415
that's why you combine arena shooter like monday night combat or tf2 with strategy like shadowrun 2007, valorant or perfect dark zero. then the gameplay becomes fast and slow at the same time creating a variety experience that isn't boring.

>>1630250 (OP)
Not very fun, and the good elements have been added to other games. I play rogue company, ow2, and shatterline to get my TDM fix these days.

>>1634941
This

>>1630296
They stopped getting made because people weren't interested in them

>>1711819
People weren't interested in them because they stopped getting made

>>1632405
Diabotical was dead on arrival and I literally didn't hear one single thing about it until I saw it on the epic store and it was already dead

>>1706482
he's right though. adhd bouncing off the walls was always gay
>quickswitches weapons and dashes 154675324 times

It didn't die, the people who were up for 1v1 duels are always around. The casual playerbase left, yes. But don't pretend that Q3A in its heyday was for the average player anything but playing silly modes and on maps that were meant to be a recreation of Springfield from the Simpsons.

>>1630250 (OP)
I'm... relatively young compared to the average Quake 3 player who's playing duels directly from a nursing home, and I spent most of my childhood playing CS 1.6 instead of Quake, so here's my point of view:
AFPS are dead because LAN and community servers are dead, and gaming has gotten way too big for them to exist. Simple as.
Now, if you have a group of friends and they're all interested in playing, they're great. I had a lot of fun a few years back playing Xonotic with some friends, for example. We would just pick a random FFA server and play for a few hours every weekend.

>>1705544
I thought this wasn't true for the longest time, but then I came across videos about the CoD shit where you fuck with the matchmaking system to place you in the lowest MMR or whatever the fuck it's called and it opened my eyes. There really are hordes of people out there who actively play FPSes, like daily, and don't know how to aim or move. And they bring in a LOT of money, but they have to be matched with shitters just like them or they instantly ragequit instead of vying to get better at the game.

>>1715769
>It didn't die, the people who were up for 1v1 duels are always around
1v1 duels ARE the death of Arena Shooters
It's as much of a silly mockery as Instagib

>>1715845
Not really, theyre the death for any prospects from people who can't stand losing in 1v1 duels, or won't spend time trying to just play and figure out flaws in the dueling aspect on top of just playing, everyone has a preference, and only the based and awesomepilled stick around for dueling

>>1716127
Exactly the kind of word vomit I'd expect from the neanderthals that have devolved their AFPS experiences into the most shallow and degenerate practice of Duels

>>1716319
I see, well, Duel is a matter of predicting the other guy, so if you like the feeling of that, duel can reward ya pretty well, It's a matter of perspectives really, and typically, most tourists who come around afps duel only last 1 game, the strong has like at least 500 games in them records to get a general gist of the ol arena fps experience, dont need to be duel, just the feelin of fraggin in the classic arena on their choosin,

2 AFPS duel cups happening today, one being free to play entirely v
https://challonge.com/Eggduel2

https://rocketjump.zone/reflex-arena/rjz-reflex-arena-duel-cup/ This is primarily for EUs, last one from these guys for this game

>duelshit
not even worth giving the time of day

>>1719862
ur choice anon, take care

https://www.moddb.com/games/openarena
Ppl should try this more

>>1705558
Siege is some fun shit. You can use the piston alternate fire to damage yourself to at or below the 10hp threshold where the protector turrets won't see you. Then you can sneak into the enemy base with invisibility.

>>1630296
>Because they stopped being made,
Millennials/Gen Xers continuously still being in denial.

No one is interested in arena shooters anymore. The formula is boring. They think they're hardcore gamers because they grew up in the same era, but realistically, they just have a nostalgic boner for games so they only play the single player indie arena shooters instead of playing online arena shooters seriously.

Yall really don't even play it. Stop being posers.

Totalbiscuit said it best. Deadass.

https://youtu.be/gXl2qS7GVnA?t=1279 post ur last blood run duel if u have any, lets see em duels fellas
good way to gamer check around these parts i reckon

>>1724699
>they are all either dead or with tiny concurrent playerbases of <100
Maybe now that he's dead and has worms crawling through his skull, there'll be enough of a greater intelligence in there to realize that this meant there were hundreds of actual players for each game (as not everyone was on at the same time) that were all yapping online about how they wanted more AFPS titles and for them to be more popular.

Not to mention the examples are pretty silly and all had their own issues
>TOXIKK
Compared itself pretty heavily to UT's demo discs with its F2P model, only to be way worse in that regard + gave F2Ps a mark of shame
>Reflex
Paid AFPS that didn't justify the pricetag with its featureset, simple as
>UT4 Alpha
Game was super unfinished and needed refinement even for the core gameplay, and even back then nobody wanted to deal with the EGS
>Warsow
Pissed off its potential playerbase with the dev infighting shenanigans and the total fumbling of Steam Greenlight, to the point that it was quicker for someone to fork it years later instead
>Quake Live
Dogshit amount of clunk made a lot of people want to just play Q3A until it became a standalone client, but uh oh, it's only standalone for a year until something that was free was now paid, which is a business strategy that has worked absolutely never

The only one that really justified itself at the time was Xonotic, which is why it's also still fondly regarded today

And that's before the question of whether or not people were asking for the "pure arena experience" to begin with. All the people that wanted that were and still are playing the old games.

>>1724742
The quintessential duel sister experience: would rather goon to 1v1 footage than jump in Deathmatch moshpit and play some real AFPS games

>>1727282
Toxikk wasn't F2P, and it released around the same time as UT4(which was free).

>>1728245
I didn't say Toxikk was F2P, I said it had a F2P model.

>>1630250 (OP)
Esports mostly.

You need new blood in any game, but if you're constantly shitting on newbros for being bad while also begging the developers only cater to compfags by removing all fun and focusing purely on 'skill' based gameplay you'll never attract new players and without new blood the games just die and you end up with the same 3-5 sweatlords playing 'tournaments' against one another LARPing like its an esport when no one gives a fuck because you begged developers to focus entirely on skill based matchmaking and esports and not allowing for players to have fun with 24+ player big team modes or to cut their teeth on single player campaigns that naturally teach the fundementals without getting rocket railed by xXx_QUAKELORDRANGER_XxX for 200 hours before you 'git gud'

>>1630250 (OP)
Because zoomers are retarded and have no skill with literally anything. Why the Idle genre became a thing with them because they're so lazy and worthless.

>>1630250 (OP)
Because dueltrannies think that the duel is the only mode that matters

>>1728348
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't actively seek to disrupt and diminish conversation and coordination regarding non-duel modes.

>>1647680
>bla bla bla
if you have a sniper rifle in any 60 FPS boomer shooter, you can kill an opponent in 16.6ms after you see him.
Starcraft, Dota, league, etc are just better game. You lost, get over it.

>>1630250 (OP)
>Why did arena shooters die?

The actual truth is that they're less accessible for new and bad players, which makes up most of your playerbase (until they leave).
Getting new players and keeping them (i.e. player retention) is one of the most important things for modern multiplayer games.

In an arena shooter, not only do you usually have to learn something obtuse like bunnyhopping, but mastering the map to the point where you control it right down to the timings of powerups is not only not intuitive but also hard to learn. Most people still don't know that great map control is even better than exceptional aiming (because if they have 200HP and you have 100, they take all powerups and best weapons, that drastically changes the power dynamic).

This in turn means that good players will shitstomp new and bad players, with those players having no clue why they lost which makes them frustrated and feel powerless, then leave.
If you don't get new players and keep them, that means new players will keep facing good players and the cycle repeats until the playerbase is just 10 sweaty dudes.

Arena shooters also don't fit into the style that's more familiar and popular, which is more slower paced, aim down the sights, etc. shooter gameplay.

>>1728548
1) Mastering the map is a nonfactor in the vast majority of AFPS gamemodes. Duel autists get the rope.
2) "Slower paced, aim down the sights?" It wasn't even like that with CoD4 almost 20 years ago, let alone CoD21 today. People love the same kind of small sized meat grinder maps that you'd find in a game of 8+ player Deathmatch, but if anything, the average AFPS is actually too slow for the spastic kill kill kill they're expecting.

>>1728564
>1) Mastering the map is a nonfactor in the vast majority of AFPS gamemodes. Duel autists get the rope.
Anon, if you don't even have a moderate understanding of each map you are at a severe disadvantage. Regardless of mode.

>"Slower paced, aim down the sights?" It wasn't even like that with CoD4 almost 20 years ago
That IS slower paced. I'm not talking tactical shooters like CSGO or Valorant, which is an entirely different thing.
There are many differences between CoD and arena shooters, from loadouts to kill/death streak 'hero moments'. But the most important one is that in a game like CoD, even bad/new players can get kills just from luck often enough because of the lower TTK and stuff like happening to run around a corner and see someone with their back turned for a free kill.

The main issue is that arena shooters are far less new/bad player friendly than the alternatives, while also being too obtuse in how to learn the underlying deeper layer.

But the absolute main reason why arena shooters kept failing again and again is that they never adapted to these inherent problems. Instead they just kept doing the same old shit of copying Quake and changing nothing of relevance.
A modernized arena shooter could absolutely work in todays market, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon because too many companies fell for the extraction shooter meme with too many of those games in development to count.

>>1728596
>Anon, if you don't even have a moderate understanding
Ah yes, moderate. Master. These two words are synonyms.
>That IS slower paced
No, it's not. AFPS games are more complex, but the pace is decidedly comparable or slower in the majority of instances
>even bad new players can get kills just from luck often enough
And the same exactly thing happens with AFPS games. Hell, if you're gonna use "turn around the corner and get lucky" as a point of comparison, then I'll sure as hell point out that not a Deathmatch goes by without the actually good players trying to fight over the quad, getting cleaned up while weakened by the fresh install, and then proceed to get stomped by him for a bit as he's spamming rockets everywhere while they desperately rush to stack back up.
>Instead they just kept doing the same old shit of copying Quake and changing nothing of relevance
And there it is. The scarlet letter of "I don't actually engage with the genre." I mean sure, it was already clear before, because your statement of "at least noobs can get lucky there but not in AFPS games" is also easily countered by bringing up the alt-fires for the Rocket Launcher and Flak Cannon in UT99, but at least now you're just admitting you haven't actually played such games.

>>1705544
I know iD debated removing strafe jumping at one point due to it not really being how they envisioned the game being played and honestly I'd be curious to see what Quake III without movement techniques looks like, even if it's horrible, just because I was never there in the Quake III heyday when there was less knowledge and more new players so I've never seen it.

nobody even really liked them as you can tell by all the people still playing are playing clan arena. the mechanics suck. the most important part about winning is keeping your stacks up and getting power ups, that's it. you keep your stacks up and get power ups more than your opponent and you win every time. aiming and tracking difference between good players isn't wide enough to compensate

>why did arena shooters die
It's actually extremely odd that you expect any genre to have a significant playerbase after 20 years. That's extremely rare for a game to have and the ones that do have it usually have that playercount boosted by third-worlders who can't run anything new. The mainstream public is addicted to novelty and likes trying out things that are familiar yet different. Multiplayer FPS has had plenty of trends over the years. Arena FPS, then the tactical shooter, than the military-themed arcade shooter, now battle royale and abilities. Why would your favorite genre be any different?

>why does it stay dead
Honestly probably because the aesthetics are too dorky. Military men and licensed weapons are more relatable regardless of if the gameplay is arcadey or tactical.

But, I bet it isn't at all helped by the leagues and leagues of autists who claim that AFPS is the king of all "competitive gaming," (itself a ridiculous farce), while also when they say AFPS they mean Quake, and when they say Quake they mean Quake III: Arena, putting down all other games, refusing to move to games even when they literally copy Quake 1:1, and acting like during Quake III's heyday the majority of gamers were sweaty duelists, when that's not true. And doing all of this while managing to just be totally wrong about everything, like calling Halo not an arena shooter and defining arena shooters entirely on "speed" (nuModern Warfare 3 is an arena shooter by this definition with all its "movement,") and not even being aware of what the average Quake competitive duel looks like.

Not to mention that cracked out zoomers and hackers and lack of community servers and mod content is killing the entire genre in its own right. The other anon is right, AFPS is still popular as a niche, but where is it popular? Where community servers are popular. And also they just won't play Quake because duel autists made its reputation horrible. Quake is the game you pretend to play for gamer cred

>>1728384
This thread has none of that but plenty of people victimizing themself for not liking duel.

>>1728564
>Mastering the map is a nonfactor in the vast majority of AFPS gamemodes
Yeah you don't have to master the maps if you want to just hold +forward and shoot people with your boomstick but at that point maybe just go play a game more your speed like Halo Infinite.

>>1728622
>nobody even really liked them as you can tell by all the people still playing are playing clan arena.
that was also the case back in the day. I remember how most people either did rocket arena ra3map1/11 or clan arena q3dm6 and nothing else. the rest did some defrag on the site. no one really enjoyed duel since its stress inducing to some degree. hate it or love it but the majority of people cant and wont handle that kind of stress. its one of the major reasons why most 1v1 genres die and why team based games flourish.

>>1728676
Duel simply lasts too long for this generation. Duel should be 5 minutes with sudden death overtime.

>>1724699
>plenty of options
>obscure indie games, variations on Quake 3 and UT4 which received next to zero effort by Epic

>>1638755
> am under 30
>play quake live
>enjoy FFA
darkfiber servers are a clusterfuck
456
!crash

>>1729426
50
50
50
50
50
502

>>1729433

>>1728676
Duel sucks, unless you're on a purely even standing with the other guy it's just a matter of who wins the early interactions first. Most duels don't have any momentum switching. It's got the same problem as a lot of RTS in that the game is won in the first 10 minutes and then the rest of the game is just a prolonged experience of winning or losing that match.

>>1730842
>same problem as a lot of RTS in that the game is won in the first 10 minutes and then the rest of the game is just a prolonged experience of winning or losing that match
but RTSes have a lot of variance and room for errors and unexpected developments
it's true that a grandmaster will usually slowly squeeze you to death
but between players of more even skill, the complexity of the game makes turning the tables very possible, even from a bad position

>>1731125
Which is why I put the qualifier "unless you're on a purely even standing." Most matches aren't going to be two equally skilled players against each other and the more rapey a game is the thinner the margin between skill levels has to be to get an actually exciting match.

>>1732754
but that is true of any game of skill
and the less randomness there is, the more edge an experienced player has, an extreme example being chess
compared to that, RTSes give more manoeuvring room to the losing player due to fog of war
additionally, RTSes are complex enough that even very skilled players make tons of mistakes
frankly I'll take that over catch-up mechanics that arbitrarily hobble the leading player
what game would you say better avoids the problem you're talking about?

>>1733056
The only game I can think of that seems "fair" to me is Rocket League. And that's literally just soccer.

2gd fucked up diabotical

>>1647539
sounds like fighting games

>>1630250 (OP)
Because Zoomers are the worst generation to ever exist and have no taste whatsoever in any area of life, from movies to books (lol, they can't even read) to music. Dumbasses across the board.

>>1739007
>multiplayer was worse than quake 3
It was definitely different enough to not just be called a worse version of Quake 3. Many people enjoyed the LG changes, and crouchsliding fundamentally changes the way the game is played. It is a different game, and it would be a lot more popular if the source code was released so people could create modern clients. And no, the Doom 3 codebase is not identical to the Quake 4 codebase.

>>1739007
>and the multiplayer was worse than quake 3.
You are an actual retard.

>>1630250 (OP)
AFPS games are constantly pegged at maximum intensity and maximum stakes. Most people prefer a generally comfy game with peaks of high intensity. Games like CSGO are 10% shooting and 90% getting into a position to shoot, BRs and extraction shooters are even more lopsided (and while they theoretically have high stakes, matches are full of bots to feed you free kills and make you feel happy even if you get dumpstered by the first actual player). Games like CoD and BF do have constant shooting but there is nothing at stake and your performance doesn't matter.

In an AFPS, if you spend 5 seconds not shooting and jumping like a spaz then you die and respawn with nothing so you die again immediately, repeat 20 times before you get a weapon and get back on your feet.

Same reason MOBAs replaced RTS games. In a MOBA you spend 90% of the time farming or running around and 10% of the time fighting, while in an RTS if you don't have your production line and 9 additional bases up by exactly 33 seconds you get dumpstered.

>>1630250 (OP)
Lack of interest from developers and the fact that it's a tough nut to crack for poor payoff.
The best ones are still working and the playerbase is autistic to say the least. Making a game that can compete with the standard of work devs output these days to me seems literally impossible, though even if they could there's no monetary incentive. It's not a fad and it's not an optimal platform for milking money out of people. Quake 3 is it if you want multiplayer. Singeplayer you have the boomshoot renaissance, Ultrakill is the only thing I've played that made me feel like it actually competed with quake for game feel, though again the caveat is if it ever got multiplayer and I doubt it will it would be a mess. What I could see is the dev making a separate arena shooter that could actually compete, though whether he would want to is another matter and again, what do they stand to gain? It's a neglected niche, sure. But I just don't see something like that exploding in popularity anymore. The market is not ripe for it since it's been cannibalized by knock off genres. counter strike, cod, fortnite, tarkov. I know they're not the same, moba's aren't the same as RTSes either, but they are a lot easier to play than their progenitor genre. That's the other thing, there's no new blood for arena shooters, anyone joining is competing with 20 year turboautists, I loved playing quake 3 back in the day but I wasn't competitive, I have nowhere to play the game against people where I won't just be fodder so there's no reason to try.

>>1743816
>there's no new blood for arena shooters
Simply isn't true. All of the most popular AFPS games have tournaments with division systems and new player discords designed to match noobs with noobs. QuakeWorld has been supporting new players for fucking ages at this point. Not to mention there are also just trash players who have been playing forever, who can also slot into mixes with new players. This narrative that Quake is impossible to get into is nothing more than excuse to not play the game. In NA alone (the most dead region) we've seen not only new players recently, but new players well into their 30s and 40s. And they integrate just fine, play with other new/bad players, learn from good players.

>>1744218
>tournaments with division systems and new player discords
You've lost the plot if you think these are actually suitable for pulling in properly new players. Such systems only entice people that were already set on not just trying said games, but are set on COMMITTING to trying those games.

>>1744408
If you aren't set on committing to an AFPS you aren't going to have fun. None of them have active casual servers with the exception of some Clan Arena on QL. During EU hours there's a single FFA server on QW. If you want to play instagib and for fun non-matched gamemodes you need to play another genre. You phrase your post as if "competitive" gaming/ranked ladders/etc aren't the most popular form of online gaming right now. People aren't scared to get into a game competitively.

>>1744418
>If you aren't set on committing to an AFPS you aren't going to have fun
Exactly. We're in agreement that AFPS games aren't conducive to new players then
>people aren't scared to get into a game competitively
People played ranked for games they already know and like after having played them casually. The vast majority also only ever do Ranked, they don't do organized play. Even PUGs in a league setting aren't really all that common.

>>1744432
>People played ranked for games they already know and like after having played them casually.
Absolutely bullshit. People get into CS, Dota, League, all this shit with the sole intention of playing the ranked mode. They're inherently competitive games by design.

>>1744501
NTA, but he's right
yes, there are people who get in with the intention of going ranked
but there are way more people who start off casual and commit because they liked the game
if you're attending tournaments, then you're already hooked

>>1730842
>Most duels don't have any momentum switching
you can think of hero abilities what you want and I am sure the majority (here) hates it but thats exactly what its for. turning the match with some random element. zoomers and live stream viewer love that kind of crap. fighting games suffered more or less from the same thing. you zone out your enemy and squeeze out the timer with no chance of coming back. they introduced comeback mechanics like super bars that only fill up whenever you lose and whatnot and guess what, casuals love it.

>>1744408
There's people who try and set up communities around casual games around afps, its a matter of connecting with the right people for it, i mainly duel, but i try n push the casual modes before anything, because thats how people really get a feel for it, instagib stuff to just all weapons and jumping around

>>1744776
As someone who actually plays the fucking game and sees new players all the time, you're both wrong.

>>1744924
nobody said there are no new players
just that there are few new players

and nobody hops into a tournament as their first match, so people at the tournaments might be new ranked players, but are not new players overall

even in Starcraft, most people didn't start with 1v1 games, since 1v1s are too stressful
most people started with casual 3v3s and 4v4s due to lower pressure, and then migrated to 1v1 when they decided to get serious

>>1698002
This is why we get only Quake clones and the genre is diying.
Of you want to play Quake play Quake.

Making every arena shooter be like Quake is dumb as hell.

>>1744924
Your metric for what constitutes a "new player" is totally thrown off

>>1745275
Someone who has never played an arena shooter before isn't a new player now, cool, keep making shit up to justify your baseless position its par for the course on this website after all.

>>1745507
>keep making shit up to justify your baseless position
Why would I do that when you're already doing that AND managing to be a whiney little snippy bitch at the same time. Seems like you've got it covered. I'll just stick to not making things up and acknowledging the fact that new players aren't signing up for tourneys and seeking out discords.

>>1745521
I guess all these new players are just figments of my imagination then. How about you head over to a thread for a game you actually play? Very womanly behavior from you right now to be honest.

The autistic focus on duel game mode above all else is what killed the arena shooter genre.

>>1745555
>all these new players are just figments of my imagination then
Yes.
>head over to a thread for a game you actually play
Arena Shooters? Yeah lemme go there right now.
Hi!

wtf is all this cope and seethe

new players get smoked because the game has been out for 20+ years

Frag out in the arena or try hard in the comp modes New players can play with new players if that's the crygasm your on about ELO games are a thing for the titty babies.

The people who moan that its only a comp game never played insta gib, bot matches, freeze tag or any of the bhop racing.

If playing with or against other people is too competitive go back to single player

The reason we dont see more of these games anymore is because you can't profit off them as much as you can with other products.

when Q1, Q2, and Unreal got re-released they garnered enough fan bases that you can go on them and find matches right now.

Just because it isn't a million dollar money sink that has an advertising budget comparable with the gdp of a small country doesn't mean people including new ones don't play it and have fun.

!crash

>>1745868
I accept your concession.

>>1739007
jokes on you
I enjoyed quake 4 and doom 3
>my mind has not been poised by the main stream group think and I can actually find happiness in my life

The zoomer playerbase requires a carrot on a stick dangling in front of them. They cannot enjoy a game if there's no "progress" involved. Gaining points. Unlocking things.

>>1746129
Go back to >>>/v/

in my personal opinion arena fps died because they are too hard and too punishing and in my 30 years of gaming ive not seen much change to the formula other than splitgate.
i think a great example of too hard too punishing games right now is deadlock

>>1630250 (OP)
>Why did arena shooters die?
Cheaters, like all games nowadays.

>>1746397
>in my personal opinion arena fps died because they are too hard
yeah, proper movement alone takes months if not at least a year let alone aim and item timing (if you are into duel). with the amount of games we have nowadays its understandable that people dont want to put that amount of time into a single game just so they play with a few other autists.

>>1630250 (OP)
The environment for the arena shooters is long gone.
Arena shooters were designed to be played by players of roughly equal skill on the identical machines with similar performance and near zero ping. That means, lan parties, internect cafes and computer clubs.

When there is severe ping difference, big gaps in skill and gaming periphery starting from PC specs with FPS/HZ and finishing gaming mice and whatnot the sterile competitive environment which are the arena shooters won't be as fun as it used to be. Getting stomped by quakedad who has thousands of hours isn't so fun, even if you have about 800 hours of practice yourself. That means, the barrier of entry for pretty much any arena shooter is like being beaten for the first 10-15 hours before you even start to beat others, that is a hard filter when there is a lot of games which do not have it that rough at all and which you can play instead.

>>1746122
> Unreal got re-released
what...
WHEN?

>>1747217
fuckin skizo moment
I could have swarn they did

>>1630296
This is definitely true but I think it's important to understand that a lot of normalfags do not want the autism that comes with arena shooters. Most people want to just shoot at things and have fun, Arena shooters are like the Mordheim of FPS games. They attract sweats, they have a high skill ceiling that filters people, it takes a lot of time to commit to them and the veterans are usually cunts that bully new players half to death. I love old school arena shooters but it's just a denial of reality to pretend they're not for a niche audience. People here spend too much time on their high horse ignoring reality. Honestly lads, it's like reading FFXI fags whining about why most people nowadays don't want to spend 16 hours camping a spawn to get an item.

>>1747403
all multiplayer games are niche after their marketing budget runs out.

the only reason why the top played games are even relevant anymore are because the giant corporations need their flagships to stay afloat

>>1630250 (OP)
What the fuck is even an arena shooter? Everyone will always say Quake or UT when in reality you could say that PUBG, DayZ, H1Z1, Fortnite fit the same descriptions and those are wildly popular.

>>1748569
The core concept is that you spawn into an arena and acquire weapons/pickups from dedicated locations in order to become stronger than you started and beat the opponent to win the match. Fortnite could kind of go on that sliding scale, or any Battle Royale that has set locations for where items can spawn/what rarity they'd be (even though the items at those spawns can be random), but the biggest thing is what the important, identifiable features of the game most align with. The more they lean towards their primary identity as a Battle Royale, or from the other games they draw inspiration from, the less relevant it is to call them "arena shooters."

I think a better example to argue over is something like Shotgun Farmers, where it is so far removed from most of the conceits of the genre that you wouldn't call it one at first glance, but ultimately you'd be hard pressed to call it anything but an arena shooter.

>>1748569
>PUBG, DayZ, H1Z1, Fortnite
You're being intentionally obtuse. Rephrase your question more earnestly and I'll engage with you.

>>1747586
insane cope

>>1653192
i never understood the cope of "diabotical tanked because epic games launcher!!!"

that dumb faggot 2GD was hyping up Diabotical for FREE every chance he got, every Quakecon or event that he commentated at for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS, we got to hear about Diabotical and how awesome he thought it was.

How valuable do you think 8 years of free marketing and plugs to your ideal player base is? how do you even fuck that up? it's a game dev's wetdream, 2GD...

Diabotical tanked because over 8 years of fucking development, you know what 2GD came up with?

>Quake Live with a Dash.

THE MAN IS TRULY A VISIONARY!
HAS LEONARDO DA VINCI BEEN REBORN BEFORE OUR VERY EYES ?!

8 years.
EIGHT. FUCKING. YEARS.
this was what 2GD could come up with.

for reference, UT '99 has a dash.
it came out in 1999, hence the name.
Diabotical released 2020.
> Innovation!

meanwhile, you have games like Ultrakill and Titanfall 2 making ACTUAL strides and pushes in AFPS combat that hasn't been seen for 20 years. No significant innovation has been made in the genre outside these two games, imo.

I've played basically every Quake clone, and they basically all kinda suck. you know it's true, even if you play and love one or two of them.

Arena FPS is dead because every new entry is just a Quake clone.
No one has the balls to innovate and make the next evolution of AFPS.
Everyone sticks to Quake, and then is surprised that Quake players prefer Quake over yet another shitty Quake clone. Surprise!

if AFPS has any future whatsoever, it looks more like Titanfall 2 and Ultrakill's changes to movement tech and other features. it looks like innovation in design, trying to find new solutions to movement tech, looking for ways to spice up the AFPS formula, not just repackaging Quake over and over again.

the future of AFPS will be nonexistent if all we continue to have have are uninspired Quake clones.

>>1748569
>PUBG, DayZ, H1Z1, Fortnite
rely on random chance and a choice on where to spawn/ drop in to find items and focus on single life game play with a large number of players typically 50-100 till it gets down to one

Arena shooters place a set number of players at designated spawns in a match to either play multiple rounds or fight to a certain score limit where all weapons, health armor and power ups are placed on the map for players to fight over the weapons and items tend to stay in the same place vs random chance

spawn, gear, fight, repeat till match is over
vs
spawn, gear, fight, go back to the lobby

tight consistent gameplay
vs
large scale random chance

>>1749055

not like you can prove me wrong

Fortnite has much better 1v1 duels, and less/no random chance in the custom maps. You can find thousands of people dueling right now in fortnite, arguably a much higher mechanically skilled game. . Halo took over afps for team stuff, and they actually hold FFA tournaments sometimes, I see them a few times a month. Its mostly just quake that died out. I just don't think 1v1 duels are that fun.

>>1749547
https://www.plusforward.net/quake/events/

Just because you don't play the game doesn't mean other people do
Fortnite has its audience and a massive marketing budget behind it. its free and in the face of millions of people.

Quake is a relic from the past the only way you're going to hear about it is if someone tells you.

its like saying why does my 25-year-old car does not have a tablet screen and wifi.

people like what their gona like "better" is subjective

>Enjoy your trash we will enjoy our Tresure

>>1749198
That's a lot of words I'm not going to read
>I never understood the cope of "diabotical tanked because of the EGS"
Because it did. Because everyone that showed interest in it will tell you exactly that. Because everyone that was hoping to use it as a good way to get their friends into the genre had those friends turn up their nose at the EGS as well.

It's just that fucking simple

>>1749727
diabotical
I'll tell you why it failed
>I dont wana play as a ugly fat bot
>never herd of it till this thread (no marketing)
>epic exclusive
>looks like shitty overwatch
gota remember quake champions doing better despite its hero shooter bs and being abandoned

>>1724742
>https://youtu.be/gXl2qS7GVnA?t=1279
why play ratmod if you're not gonna use air control?

mid cpma duels frag movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrnnpDv2v6k
openarena ratmod FFA frags on cpm maps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVclLTq8Q2U

>>1750186
>epic exclusive
BIG yikes

>>1750475
hurr durr sucks at game has to use full bright giant models to get kills

Diabotical was by all measurably measured mesasures better than Quake Live and Champions, except for art style. The tooling and engine is a far better product than any other available Arena FPS outside of maybe Reflex.
2GD simply isn't a good game designer. He ripped off Quake Live, now he's trying to rip off Roboquest. He can't even use his persona to promote his game any more because he disappeared for too long. He's had so many failed launches at this point for people to take him seriously. I'm sure this new PVE shit he's working on will be bankrolled by some sucker and his sycophants will play it for 2 weeks before it dies. Then 2 years later he'll come back with some new game with grand ideas he'll fail to deliver on.

>>1753801
>no custom servers
>no modding
>micro transactions
nice cope

>>1630250 (OP)
Unreal Tournament was going to be kino. Then Tim "Cuck" Sweeney prioritised Fortnite.

>>1632405
>Diabotical
Literally never heard of it.
>Epic exclusivity deal
That would be why.

>>1630250 (OP)
Strict adherence to esoteric movement mechanics from Quake and rarely ever designing those mechanics to be visible to newbros.

Also the absolute abandonment of campaigns and the inability of new developers to design campaigns around mechanics because every publisher wants to appeal to every retard with a pulse, so they end up just making sluggish sprinting based movement games with the most generic spray n pray guns

Its a combination that in trying to appeal to a new audience, they utterly abandon what makes arena shooters fun, and when they do stick to the arena formula they only appeal to the hardcore arenafags with quake style movement under the hood without actually designing interesting movement tech into the core of the experience, like quake still has bunny hopping via strafe jumping, instead of just making bunny hopping/wall boosting/stafe jumping and momentum conservation make sense, such as giving characters rocket boots and jet packs that inpulse harder and rev up louder and brighter the faster you go, instead you get shit like Quake Champions where they add in HUD elements without properly explaining strafe jumping.

Like really, Tribes didn't look at T1 Skiing and kept the awkward bunny hopping off slopes as a core mechanic, they added in skiing as a proper mechanic

>>1756005
Also even in their prime, Arena shooters were more than just hardcore 1v1 full stack rocket+rail.

People were modding the games constantly, and developers were expanding on the gameplay options, you could have small arena battles, but you could also have big team games like UT adding in VCTF and Onslaught

I think people massively overstate the amount of Quake cloning was out there and actually becoming playable games of note. You basically just have Reflex, Nexuiz/Xonotic, Warsow/Warfork, Diabotical, and Open Arena--and Open Arena I honestly don't even think should be cared about because it existed to be a literal Q3A clone.

>>1630250 (OP)
It doesn't scratch the 4 corners of bartle's taxonomy like the newer games are capable of with broader scope. Not that this is impossible for a new game in the genre.

Also I quite enjoyed splitgate.

>>1757540
Splitgate was hella fun. It's a shame that their workflow was so fucking spaghetti'd that they felt it prudent to relaunch like, what, a 4th time now but as a sequel with hero ability bullshit? In any case, it was fun while it lasted. When it was part of the Game Night threads, it was fun playing with jetpacks cranked and rocket launchers in everyone's hands.

>>1630250 (OP)
Photorrealism and "movie-like" graphics attract normies more. Normies and casual players in general are more attracted by visuals than by engaging gameplay.
Same reason GTA 3 killed the mascot platformer

>>1756005
this is a non issue, you dont need to know the movement mechanics to enjoy the game, as long as you get balanced matches with people who are as new and clueless as you. I played quake 3 with bots as a kid being completelly shit at the game and still enjoyed it.
Its the same reason fighting games can be fun even if you dont know any tech, as long as you play with people on your skill level
>>1756025
ive heard that after Team Fortress released for quake, about half of ALL quake servers ran the TF mod

>>1630250 (OP)
There are TWO reasons why it's dead.
1: Skill filters reduce players. People get mad - quit, no userbase, no word of mouth.
2: Skill games require good programming/netcode. This is beyond modern developers abilities and also they don't fucking care. They're not looking for that hassle, they get your money, you get a buggy game for unskilled fucks where you can RNG other people like everyone else. 95% of the population is happy. Devs don't have to work for money, gamers don't have to skill to fun.

There ya go. That's literally it. Bigger demographic + busted ass games = no arena shooters. No dev is gonna bother with pretending to balance busted ass Arena game and few skilled player is gonna stick around for busted ass arena... but even a few is enough to send thousands screaming in terror to the next CoD/CS/Valorant/Overwatch/TF2/Fortnite Junk.

Good multiplayer has been dead for decades. Play singleplayer and get over it.

>>1764856
reason 3: because quake and unreal already exist
and they have community features like dedicated servers and moddability that give them immortality
so what's the point of making a new game if you're not going to change the gameplay

>>1765455
Indeed, which is why AFPS games are all pretty interesting in how they change the gameplay. It's just a shame that noobs just see things like
>oh this has rocket jumping and a quad, it's 1:1 Quake 3

>>1630296
I would prefer champions if it had a server browser. Anarki and sorlag are just really fun.
Pic unrelated

>>1765467
even any fast paced game with rocket jumping gets called arena shooter these days. Ive seen shitters call competitive TF2 an arena shooter

>>1775539
It's retarded because then they also extend that to the idea of having pickups at all, when the thing that distinguishes an arena shooter is that those pickups have the capacity to get your stronger. It's not about health restores, it's about health and armor bonus pips or the big keg o health and shield belts that push you past max.

>>1775539
Tf2 rocket jumping mogs quake rocket jumping and tf2 will always be a higher skill index game despite the fact it is a casual game (as all games should be).

You can't trimp in TF2.

>>1783071
? Is this a joke post? Yes you can

>>1630250 (OP)
Because the skill ceiling is so high might as well be outer space and casual/busy people rather not bother. Blame whatever group you want , at the end of the day there is so much you can do before there is metarunners who squash anyone possible interest new players would have. Also i see no pve content at all besides maybe a story mode. I dunno but i think people would find it enjoyable if there is some form of pve content to just mess around with buddies.

>>1696755
I honestly think some kind of counter strike style buy/round system would work really well. Lots of quick matches in succession would at least stop new players from being demoralized by being nonstop shit on and locked down the whole match. Could even remove the money aspect and just have a per team inventory, and keep inround weapon pickups not just as something to use immediately but also bring back to the team inventory to use later. Add in some other objectives if necessesary and it mite be cool.

>>1795879
More people will play other games with higher skill ceilings, less PvE elements, and the equal lack of other people to pin the blame on, and that's just if you're one of those retards that'll pigeonhole the whole genre into being duel autism or FFA stomps.

>>1795863
You can ramp slide, but this isn't trimping.

>>1796758
There is trimping with demoknight.

>>1808646
Ramp slides aren't trimping. Trimping is jumping on a ramp to gain additional height.
It comes from trimp.bsp. Trimps are ramp jumps, not ramp slides and TF2 has no ramp jumps.

I think certain genres already had their peak and people who love that genre just play the old games
It takes a lot of work, talent, passion and money to make something great and we can't really expect new games to always be an improvement over older games
People make fun of "line go up" when talking about stocks or the economy, but the same is true for gaming or technology or anything else really

>>1724699
This is also true
You can see the same kind of people talking about shmups or beat'em ups
People who love those genres are already playing them, it's the posers who keep complaining about no new games

>>1808646
Oh, and before you ask, trimp.bsp release in 1997. Here is the readme.
https://www.gamers.org/pub/idgames2/levels/deathmatch/s-u/trimp.txt

>>1698002
I can just tell you're a shitter who doesn't know the first thing about strafing and gandhi hopping
anyways, halo is an arena shooter because of its map design and weapon pickups. The movement is definitely on the slower side, but there is a lot of movement tech that is used in regular gun fights, which increases the pace the more skilled you are.
If you think about what quake duels are, frags via attrition via pickups, halo is very similar in its pro format where 4v4s are often rotating the map to get power weapons, Halo and quake 1v1s are near identical in routing and play style, barring shield regen
>quake fat goes straight to rail
>Halo fag goes straight to sniper
its just the correct play

>>1809017
>but there is a lot of movement tech that is used in regular gun fights
such as?

>>1808730
Trimping in tf2=/=ramp sliding.
Ramp sliding in tf2 is just gliding the ramp and launch off it with enough speed and you will fly off. Trimping in tf2 requires to jump and charge into the ramp ramp at a precise angle and to turn in a specific manner to get vertical height and speed, like the trimping you've described. I'd you trimp in tf2 like a ramp slide you will stay on the ground.

>>1808730
Trimping in tf2=/=ramp sliding.
Ramp sliding in tf2 is just gliding the ramp with enough horizontal peed and you will fly off. Trimping in tf2 requires to jump and charge into the ramp at a precise angle and turn in a specific manner to gain vertical height and speed, like the trimping you've described. If you trimp in tf2 like a ramp slide you will stay on the ground and lose all momentum.

>>1809159
>Ramp sliding in tf2 is just gliding the ramp with enough horizontal peed and you will fly off.
Yeah, that's ramp slides. You move fast enough, you have no friction. Soldiers can do it too.
>Trimping in tf2 requires to jump and charge into the ramp at a precise angle and turn in a specific manner to gain vertical height and speed,
Wrong. All you have to do is hit a ramp with enough speed and you will ramp slide, like in choke in process. You cannot trimp in TF2, only ramp slide with enough speed to launch you off a platform.
>like the trimping you've described.
Trimping is another word for ramp jumps, not ramp slides. You can load trimp.bsp from 1997 or read the readme to see exactly what trimping is.
You cannot trimp in TF2, it doesn't exist. TF2 players are using the term incorrectly.

Companies didn't buy streamers(like fornite) , marketing (like every AAA Game) lr bots to shill(like Expedition 33) for a genre as niche as smash-lite games(that aren't Smash)

>>1809212
>Trimping is another word for ramp jumps, not ramp slides.
It is not. You do not understand. Under all understand from your posts and research online, trimping in tf2 is the same as what you speak of, except it's a charge input and landing instead of the jump itself. Rampsliding is different. Perhaps boot up tf2 and give it a shot, or give me a game to try it with.

I'm sure it died because the companies neglected it. A Unreal Tournament '99 deathmatch is more fun than any fps game available right now. All of those counter-strike noobs with p90's would have a much better time in UT than in counter-strike.

>>1630296
Mostly accurate, although Quake 4 wasn't an arena shooter, it was a singleplayer FPS with an undercooked multiplayer bolted onto it (by only a few of the devs, and they literally added it in their free time). There was some attempts post-launch to make it competitive online, but that was short-lived because it didn't come close to it's predecessor.

>>1756233
Open Arena is a fun game but the community is limited, but Quake Live is more active in every aspect and has a more diverse skill to climb from, and higher to reach

>>1812214
>with an undercooked multiplayer bolted onto it
crouch sliding and ramp jumps alone make Q4 better than Q3

Modern arena shooters don't have emergent gameplay or community modding, everything is carefully curated and with matchmaking and no dedicated servers

TF2 came close to capturing the old spirit but now it's just for money laundering

>>1817257
>with matchmaking and no dedicated servers
>TF2 came close
TF2 doesn't really count anyways. The instant they removed Quickplay Matchmaking and actually asked people to directly join servers, the community just entirely fizzled into nothing. Maybe one can't blame the game for them being like that, but nevertheless, it wasn't appreciated in a way that makes it a good example.

>>1630250 (OP)
>Why did arena shooters die?
Fortnite and killing UT

>>1816321
Shame about the dogshit netcode, arenas, weapons, community, and visuals.
Crouch sliding is fun but ramp jumps have been in Q3/CPMA forever.

>>1818090
>ramp jumps have been in Q3
no they haven't

>>1818090
Shame qc seems to have a similar issue with bad netcode. Personally I like the look airstrafing stuff in it. Do any quake live servers still run cpma style bhops?

Halo and Gears of War are probably the best team based arena fpses. QuakeWorld comes in second. I think focusing on too many gametypes hurts the genre. Lack of conventional weapons hurts Quake at this point. Both the aiming and movement are not that crazy these days.

>>1817958
>they removed Quickplay Matchmaking and actually asked people to directly join servers
wait, they did that? they walked back the matchmaking as the "default" mode? did they reinstate valve public servers?

>>1630250 (OP)
because its an unfun experience for new players and there's easier ways to get that feeling of "going fast." Or people are simply not into that genre of games anymore.
There's a reason why CS, Team Fortress, and Halo replaced arena shooters in the cultural zeitgeist

>>1748569
Arena shooter meaning the arena is quake-size, not Fortnite size and that the players are few (2-8) not many (50+)

>>1630250 (OP)
This was the peak arena shooter ever made, never surpassed, severely underrated current day for some reason. Bonus is that it also has the best bots of all arena shooters ever made, so you can have a really good time on singleplayer. Go get it on the archive.

>>1833092
CS is very obtuse, it's worse than Quake in terms of being a bad time for newbies. I have no idea how it got so popular to the point of killing Quake.

>>1837462
understanding that you need to stand still click on heads and drag your mouse downwards is a lot easier to pickup and be good at compared to Quake

>>1833103
>2-8
Get the fuck out of here

>>1630250 (OP)
Because there's only so much you can do with standard deathmatch. And UT was pretty much the last true torchholder in the mid 2000's before other FPS's formulas became popular.
>>1638755
>I blame all the negative association it's garnered over the years; it was THE game to name if you wanted to lie for empty kudos, and if you actually did play it, you were usually a faggot that obsessed over duels.
Unfortunately this occurs with every multiplayer game that was once popular and then proceeds to die off over the years as the more well adjust individuals leave elsewhere and only the most hardcore spergs leftover claiming they are the voices of said game. Just take a look at the Smash community, specifically melee.

>>1837462
>in terms of being a bad time for newbies.
If that were the case then there wouldn't be around 1 million concurrent players for CS2 alone.