Literally the best current gen MMO and no one plays it. Why is that?

First impressions matter.

Most wasted potential in MMO history desu

>>1752977
My first impressions of new world were good desu. Yeah it had market breaking bugs but I don't care about playing the market so they never mattered to me. And the fact that it was so barebones at launch was a good thing because I don't like being overwhelmed with mechanics and currencies and dailies and season passes and game modes as soon as I login like in your average koreanslop mmo.

woww press LMB a lot while strafing around and sometimes pressing qer, very engaging action combat

There is a universe where Amazon wasn't gay and retarded and New World stayed a PvP focused survival MMO and stagger wasn't removed. I'm so jelly of the people in that universe.

It could have been in the Steam Top5 next to Rust but they just had to convert it to a themepark safespace because their playtesters and investors were WoW players.

>>1752348 (OP)
Shitty no content MMO that was pushed out 6 months too early with bugs and exploits that went unfixed for months and driving off the playerbase.

>>1753104
They had a PVP only server recently and it was awful. Forced PVP is uter garbage in MMOs

>>1753088
What's wrong with this? Literally all action games have fewer buttons

"Is this fun to play against?" is a concern they stopped caring about when they decided to turn NW into a themepark MMO with optional PvP. Of course the PvP will be garbage when they bring it back.

>>1753534
>Forced PVP is uter garbage in MMOs

You faggots always say this, but in the era where forced PvP was commonly included in mmorpgs, the genre was the top/most played game genre in the world.

Meanwhile, today, PvP is extremely rare outside of carefully curated trash like arenas or other mini-games, and lo and behold, the mmorpg genre is so devoid of inspiration and so stale that the most popular game remains 20 year old WoW and the second is 10 year old FF.
And both their numbers are miniscule compared to the peak of the genre.

So you fags always make this claim that PVP ruins mmorpgs, but the history and current state of the genre does not in any way reflect this.

>>1753643
Almost every attempt a mmorpg has made at any form of PvP has ended in failure in the past ~15 years. This time when forced pvp was popular was in the 2000s. It was before MOBAs blew up and went mainstream, before BRs, etc. Many pvpers I played with during the 2000s went to those games and never went back. They don't see the point in hardcore mmorpg pvp. They'd rather play full pvp games that focus more on skill rather than time spent grinding. The only game that has been successful at pvp has been albion online. And that's because progression is so quick and gear doesn't have a huge impact (compared to other mmorpgs). I mean shoot, I've heard people say that they don't consider albion to be a mmorpg, so its at that state. Its hard to get people with the money to bother investing money into a pvp mmorpg. When pvp mmorpgs have a history of failing and every pvp mode in mmorpgs is the least popular.

>>1752348 (OP)
I think its a "good game" if you're JUST starting playing it right now. But I think it started out with a significant negative launch. And shit like that just sticks to a game sadly. All the bugs, exploits, etc. It was just chum for the sharks. After that and how the internet rewards outrage bait, it just started a death spiral to the game. Along with that, I think there's two other issues. One is that their world building/lore is SUPER weak. They fumbled the story telling in their game way too hard. And overall the world just feels too much like a disney theme park. Rather than a living world. Games like FF, WoW, ESO; their advantage is they have a pre-exisiting IP. World building/lore is super important to the majority audience these days. Finally, it does feel like their content release plan isn't working. Players burn through the content in like 2 weeks. Either they need to speed it up or they need to release a new type of content that has longer shelf life. Hell, it feels like fallout 76 content updates have a longer shelf life than new worlds.

>the best current gen MMO
>objectively dead
Pick one.

>>1753643
>the genre was the top/most played game genre in the world.
no it wasnt

>>1752348 (OP)
It literally sucks so bad, not even joking. All it has going for it is graphics.

>>1753643
>Meanwhile, today, PvP is extremely rare
Exactly. Because no one likes it.

>>1752348 (OP)
mmo does not go well with the current generation of instant gratification addicted children that can't deal with slow progression. it will never be popular

>>1753852
it doesnt i like it

>buy to play
>no pay2win
>no gachashit mechanics or lootboxes
>simple ui, it doesn't assault your senses like korean mmos with a billion buttons and alerts
>not macrofriendly, you can't just afk and let the game play itself
>no mod support, you can't just download raid mods and completely shut off your brain while raiding
>actually skill based, you can't just buy good gear and expect to btfo everyone

new world never had a chance in this zoomer brainrot era

>>1753543
LMB mashing with the occasional skill is boring and looks almost as dumb as the excessive strafing/jump spam in tab target pvp.

>>1753916
Yeah that's the thing that always gets me. It is a surprisingly good game, especially if you're just joining. But I think what happened was thanks to the exploits/bugs at the start, all the "influencers" realized it was easy money to rag on it. So those opinions just stayed. And then fed into any potential players because when they looked up the game, all they saw was "worse game in the world" type of videos.

But I think the biggest issue is still the lore, world building, and theme representation. Like the main story. I felt like soulwardens were completely wasted. The lost were completely wasted. The corrupted could've been interesting, but turned into a bit of a cliche that they never really explored at a greater depth. The three factions had really interesting premises, but again were wasted because they were tied PvP. Personally, I don't think they game should've had factions. All the pvp should've been based around clans. There should've been some form of kingdoms that spanned across multiple zones. Similar to say WoW. Where the environments changed drastically from zone to zone. But the towns and NPC cultures in each zone is dependent on the kingdom that owns it (or those that contest it). So each zone has this unifying thread in that way. Elwynn, Redridge, Darkwood, Westfall. All drastically different looking environments. But tied together through the human kingdom theme. New world at the start had everything looking the same. Then they went hard in the other direction where almost every town looks completely different from the next. It enforced that "themepark ride zones" feeling way too hard.

>>1753953
Eh, the combat is not that different from souls like games if you ask me. The big thing is just things don't die as fast. I would understand if the complaint that the TTK was just too high for everything. But the core concepts of the combat are heavily rooted in souls like games.

>>1753534
>forced pvp in the gayified theme park MMO version of NW
yeah that does sound shitty

>>1753916
You forgot the most important part
>no content

>>1753989
>themepark mmos are... LE BAD

>>1754022
>>1753916
also
>no hot anime girl character creator and jiggly physics

>>1754038
arguably the most important feature of any mmo
if i can't make a femboy/trap looking character or at least a qt anime girl, i'm not playing

>>1753984
The feedback of hitting shit in souls games is a lot better than NW which really lacks that imo, and that's a part of what makes action combat feel either good or mediocre. If you don't care about that and just want pvp in an mmo then it's probably great but it isn't that hard to see why it's not super popular. Fundamentally it doesn't feel that different than some shit like valheim or enshrouded, which is only just acceptable for what the overall game tries to accomplish.

>>1754036
In my opinion they are not enjoyable, that is correct.

>>1754047
Didn't they recently make changes to things like monster stagger to increase the feedback of hitting shit?

Gorgon raid was fun while everyone was new to it but we need a new raid now

For a game called new world there isn't a world for you to get sucked in. The setting feels like a setting that was made purely because an mmo needs a setting.

>>1753104
PvP focused mmos always fail because most people just want to relax and play the game without some faggot ganking them. So they leave, then the faggots don't have anyone to prey on and leave too.

>>1755481
better setting than generic tolkien copy pasta desu

>>1753534
in the closed alpha hitstun existed and spacing (not move outside the red circle spacing, more like footsies in fighting games spacing), stamina management and defensive options mattered.
then people with action combat experience with shitty gear started raping high levels who played the game incorrectly, and you faggots cried and screamed so hard they changed it to tab target combat and completely removed the ACTION from the ACTION COMBAT.
you did this. themepark fags and discord killed mmos, that's the simple truth.

>>1755661
Albion Online has been doing fine for over 7 years. New World was taking a lot of inspiration from that game.

>>1755715
you have no idea what you're talking about

>>1755702
Eh its setting is still pretty generic. It just uses real life culture for its design inspirations. Which ends up working against it because there's no flow.The release strategy of every town looking the same wasn't good. This problem was solved by previous mmorpgs. the handling of the world, its lore, and how its all presented to the player was shit tier.

>>1755715
Not only were general players were against it, but also "mmorpg pvpers" were against it for the reasons you list. General players were against it because they don't like forced pvp, don't like being ganked. You'll say "well don't play the game then". And they don't, which is why these games keep dying. For the "mmorpg pvpers", they want time/grind = power. The scenario you listed is why they were against it. They wanted to be able to grind and kill a bunch of weaker players. Instead, the game was "too" skill based for them and they were getting curb stomped by lower level/low grind players. Or getting zerged. And they'd sit there and point to getting stun locked by 2-3 players in combat and say the game was bad. So both "mmorpg pvers" and "mmorpg pvpers" were not vibing with the game at all. Any pvper who did mmorpg pvp in the 2000s and wasn't shit went to full pvp games in the 2010+ era.

>>1755725
Albion had a rough launch. Not horrible, but there were a lot of criticisms about the game. It really didn't start taking off until they had a ton of content and an economy in full swing. But even then, a huge reason why albion is successful is because progression is quick and there's tons of things to do in the game if you don't want to pvp. Along with zones with different pvp rules. Some discussion threads where self proclaimed "mmorpg pvpers" say that albion isn't a pvp mmorpg because progression isn't as important and its not always on pvp.

>>1755661
>>1755725
Doesn't Albion actually have support for people that wanna just be glorified serfs farming wheat for their guild?

i'm enjoying new world despite ags being complete imbeciles. i've played over 100 mmos in my gaming career and this is definitely the best one in terms of actual gameplay

>>1752348 (OP)
The beta was beyond awful and there's no way they fixed that mess. Fuck you Bezos.

>>1756836
they did

>>1756836
narrator: they did not

>>1755661
That's not true, even in Foxhole you can just mine shit and do logi and never see combat, and people do it on a large enough scale to support the war effort, and there are enough players for the war to exist in the first place so you can't argue that it's dead just because it doesn't have wow numbers. This idea that pvp mmos can't work is silly, devs just go about it in the most retarded ways you can think of like in throne and liberty or black desert.

>>1757651
Also, every attempt at a PvP MMO in recent history has been by small studios with tiny budgets so they end up being unpolished and buggy. People were hyped for NW because we were finally getting a proper PvP MMO from a big developer. welp

>>1757651
Logi is that it is fickle. Hard to gauge if players want to participate. For example, Squad or HLL can be an issue at times with pugs because the amount of volunteers that want to do it is low. It works for foxhole, I'd say that's more of the exception then the norm. That being said, I do agree with you on what it represents. PvP games need to offer activities that can be done without fighting off gankers none stop (logi can be killed, but its not as easy as say ganking someone in WoW on a pvp server, just as an extreme example). All that being said, if you use foxhole as an example to the "money men" to get them to invest a large budget, per your >>1757775 reply, you're not going to get very far. Peaking 4-6k players isn't a huge number. Its not dead, but its not enough as evidence to get people to invest a AAA budget. Numbers are against people who want a pvp mmorpg. The "big name" pvp mmorpgs of the 2000s failed. Out of the past 25 years, the only notable pvp mmorpgs that are still going with strong populations are EvE, albion, and foxhole. You have "PvX" mmorpgs like ESO, Gw2, WoW, FF14, etc; where their respective PvP modes are the least played content. You have revenue reports that probably point towards PvPers being the demographic that spends the least in mmorpgs. Like if PvP in ESO/Gw2 was 10x higher in popularity than it is now, that would be an exceptionally strong case for a publisher to invest a AAA budget. NW has done pvp content recently (pvp zone, always on server, upcoming new map/mode. If all those are not popular, it further cements to the devs that pvp is not the way to go.

I will say that I do think pvp mmorpgs can work. But they need heavy guardrails. They pretty much HAVE to copy albion. They need zones with different pvp rule sets. They need places players can go and play the game and not have to worry about getting ganked constantly, but still feel like they're progressing in some way. Gear needs to be easily replaceable.

Takagamahara on top

Why do MMORPG players hate PvP so much? Literally every online multiplayer game is about PvP these days.

>>1758054
Because WoW won, unfortunately

>>1758054
Because the players who did like the PvP aspect of mmorpgs in particular left for other genres. I had like a whole guild of people who I played gw1 pvp, daoc, and WoW pvp with. After league of legends went mainstream and became a borderline fortnite for that time of gaming, 95% of that guild left for that game and those similar to it. They never came back. Swapping between MOBAs, shooters like overwatch/valorant, and battle royals. The few I stayed in contact with I asked them why they never went back. It was basically that they wanted games that were more focused on skill. PvP in mmorpgs took too much time, grind, etc. For example in WoW, sometimes they felt like they died not because they got out played, but because somebody was better geared. They just never saw the point in the huge investment in mmorpgs.Like you said, every multiplayer game is pvp these days. So why bother with a time sink like a mmorpg for that same rush?

So all the genre has left is the huge population of PvErs that have never really "left" at the same rate that PvPers did. And then a small pvp crowd. And then a portion of that pvp crowd that only wants to play full loot drop hardcore pvp games.

AGS is too slow to add new content

i only want pistols before the game shuts down

>>1760447
That and it seems like they're trying to rely on FOMO. Maybe we're not seeing some stats, but I'm not sure that's the best thing to do. At least on PC. Maybe they're seeing something that makes it look like its working?

Like just release world bosses. Design it like gw2's world bosses. Doing FOMO world bosses is...strange.

>>1752348 (OP)
>generic corpo slop MMO with nothing special about it
>best at anything
It's Rift 2 lmao

I've played it on launch, then as further I got the worse the feeling that there was literally nothing beyond the starting area crept in.
The entire game had like 30 enemy models total. First dungeon would feature same enemies as the last one. It was so stupid.

>>1764600
it literally has the most unique combat in mmos. and the audio engineering is as good as any tripple a single player game desu desu

>>1753643
I just want a modern version of the Warhammer MMO with 3 factions like DAOC. Build out a whole PvE experience and have it so people never need to set foot in a PvP zone if they don't want to if that's what you need to sell copies, but this would be the ultimate game for me that isn't a personal, unmarketable fantasy.

>>1752348 (OP)
>Why is that?
I can't make my character sexy, so it's shit.

>>1764539
What fomo does new world have? The new world bosses are on a rotation that doesn't make it fomo

For an open world pvp game to work, I think they need to

A) Focus more on other parts of the game like survival, politics, crafting, culture, minigames, etc to where participating in PvP isn't a daily thing that people need to do to be entertained, and is more reserved for actual wars.

B) Make it possible for factions to enforce law and order in large areas of land/impose penalties on gankers and troublemakers that are actually severe enough to make them think twice about playing that way if they aren't doing it in an incredibly strategic way.

Making a good game like this would take balls and innovation though. Right now everything is super bifurcated between complete gankfests and completely opt-in PVP that ruins immersion. PVP shouldn't always be opt-in, but it should be possible for factions to enforce rule of law enough that the risk/reward for ganking usually isn't worth it and the average player can still access a large percentage of the game without having deal with pvp very often if they don't want to.

PvP should not be criminalized. That's what you play the PvP MMO for. You are playing the victim card everytime you cry about "gankers". Those are just players looking for content. You can fight back. PvP MMOs just aren't for everyone.

>>1767539
>For an open world pvp game to work, I think they need to add even more padding before you can actually pvp and limit how and when you can pvp
Another genius PvP MMO designer.

>>1753916
it did have a chance and they completely fucking blew it

Eve damn near perfected the PvP MMO model. Albion's success after copying the model is further proof of that. There's no need to reinvent the wheel here.

PVP in New World is pretty good

new world was just saved. they added barebones pvp and it feels so much better without all the stupid overpowered perks

>>1775625
what?

Based

>>1776547
Pvp without stupid overpowered perks feels so nice.

Im enjoying the hardcore sever

The best current MMOs are Guild Wars and this one solo dev's Everquest-inspired singleplayer designed MMO.