Thread 57887059

Now that we've all gathered here to discuss the peak of competetive Pokemon AKA the Gen 9 Smogon OU format, how do we make Crobat relevant again?

Previous thread: >>57874635

Game Freak should make it so if you use Rain Dance/Snowscape/Sandstorm/Sunny Day with their respective weather rocks the weather becomes permanent. That way you can either quickly set weather by switching in Pelipper/A-Ninetales/Tyranitar/Torkoal or you can destroy your momentum setting the weather but having it last way longer.

Ban Kingambit

Unban Gems
Unban Venusaur
Finch was raped by Cloysters in the white hot summer of '22

>>57887072
I meant Chlorophyll
We all know it's really a VenuGOD ban albeit

>>57887082
But then you'd have to unban Swift Swim and Sand Rush and suddenly the meta is now rainfaggotry with a small helping of Excadrill

Game Freak should've added Slush Rush and given it to Mamoswine in Gen 5

>>57887100
>But then you'd have to unban Swift Swim and Sand Rush and
you can just unban chlorophyll retard

>>57887156
Why would you unban just one speed-boosting weather ability? Just playing favorites?

>>57887172
The non-sun ones are busted, as is the non-sun weathers

>>57887182
Chlorophyll is busted too. Just not as busted as Swift Swim or Sand Rush because the rest of the non-Venusaur Chlorophyll users are shitmons.

>>57887059 (OP)
I wish Lando-T actually did drop to UU this gen. UU would be so much better with Lando in the tier

I thought she got unbanned...

>>57887512
It did. But then it got banned again.

>>57887059 (OP)
>how do we make Crobat relevant again?
as satisfying as it is to see choice band sludge bomb take off chunks of hp he gets so unbelievable fucked by the rock/ground/steel type spam in gen 3 ou I just gave up

>>57887529
Why did Smogon ban her again? Are they retarded?

>>57887540
Poison is easily the worst type in the game in Gen 3. Gen 4+ it's Ice, but in Gens 2 and 3 Poison is nothing but a hindrance.

>>57887512
Tera fairy claimed the life of another dragon
>"But it's getting banned in Nat Dex too"
Z crystals claimed the life of another dragon

>>57887548
The suspect test says that it's mainly because it abuses more tera types than it did last time it got banned which makes it harder to prepare against.

>>57887553
Ice would've been much better in gen 4 if Mamoswine and Weavile had proper STABs.

Ice type itself isn't bad. The type was just full of nerfed and gimped mons that could have been good during the golden era had Game Freak not held then back with stupid shit like cutting Articuno's special attack, giving Glalie and Froslass 80/80 offenses, and making physical ice types nearly unplayable until icicle crash.

Who's getting the axe next?

>>57887728
Dragonite 100%

>>57887553
i still think bug is the weakest type
u-turn is a top 3 move but that's in spite of its typing

Whenever I import a team the first thing I do is replace Hydro Miss/Fire Miss/Will o Miss/etc. on every mon

>>57887732
truth is there are no bad types

>>57887529
Deserved

>>57887553
>in Gen 2 Poison is nothing but a hindrance
incorrect

ABR won Jimvitational and ADV Revival 2 back to back.

>>57887512
Knock Off was a mistake.
>T.Psychic lover
>>57887732
You have two of the best resistances in the game in Ground and Fighting, a ton of very powerful options, you consistently see Bugs sneak their way up the meta regardless and clean house or at the very least be good niche options. The issue is Bug by itself isn't great, but mix it up with Fire or Steel or Water and it's a fantastic typing. Compare this to Rock or Ice, two types that are nothing but hinderances to anything that has them. I almost feel like suggesting the usual that Ice could use some resistances to stuff like Water, Flying or Ground, but every time I bring up discussions on how to buff the type there's 2 schizos who come along and ruin the discussion every fucking time whining about Fairy types.

>>57887560
To be fair to NatDex, they also banned Walking Wake so there are fewer Roaring Moon answers in the meta.

>>57887902
>Gets BTFO by Snorlax's EQ in you're path
*Psssh* nothin' personnel, Misdreavus

>>57887728
Finch wants to suspect test Ogerpon (wet) because she dunks on rain teams too hard.

>>57887758
I never use Hydro Pump or Fire Blast, but Will-o-Wisp is one-of-a-kind. There's no other move that burns with anywhere near that consistency except for Sacred Fire.

>>57887781
Roaring Moon should've never been unbanned in the first place. It was a better Gouging Fire, and yet somehow Gouging Fire got sent to the shadow realm first.

>>57888049
I wish Mamoswine didn't fall off so hard. Replacing Snow Cloak with Slush Rush would do a lot to fix his/her viability.

>>57888024
In Gen 3 OU I'll keep it on gengar if I'm playing certain teams but I've had it miss multiple times in a row. I just treat it as a move to throw out if I have a soft switch-in read

>>57888230
I only use it in the metas where it's 85% accurate. Otherwise my status of choice is paralysis. Paralysis is so fucking busted.

Honestly, the speed drop from Para should be changed back to 75% in exchange for Full Para being a 10% chance instead of 25%.

its crazy all you have to do to shut down these annoying gimmick ninjask pass teams is keep your roarer/taunter alive and yet somehow i keep failing to do that.

>>57888024
I wished Magma Plume was more widely available, wished Turtanator got it since a shitmon I have a massive soft spot for and it's literally a volcanic mine mata-mata turtle.
Funny how FUCKING WATER TYPES had a better burn option that most Fire types and at least back in the day way more Ghost types got access to Will-o-Wisp.

>>57888367
Good thing Game Freak deleted Scald from 90% of Pokemon's movesets instead of just nerfing the move to 60 - 70 base power.

>>57888275
Just run Roar Swampert and Tyranitar babby.

>>57888275
It's almost as if baton pass takes very skill to beat its supposed """answers"""

>>57888568
>It's almost as if baton pass takes very *high skill
yep

Is it just me or does Blaziken suck massive cock in ADV? I heard so many faggots saying it was a fantastic mixed attacker that threatened the Blissey and Skarmory cores and that it was definitely worth using, but it never does jack fucking shit on my end even with amazing prediction, also splitting the IVs for a mixed set tends to make it shittier in general and it's prime Dugtrio bait if I've ever seen it.
CHADzard on the other hand has gotten me through way too many tough situations for me to count, actually threatens Blissey even with a special attacking set thanks to Beat Up and doesn't fear Spikes and can outright punish the niggamoles if it locked into Earthquake.

>>57888607
Blaziken is the premier jobber of ADV. He's difficult to switch in, is easily worn down by spikes and sand, and is often KO'd right back by anything he can't KO himself.

If you want a good fire type. Moltres is very easy to use while having both offensive and defensive utility thanks to its solid bulk and access to will-o-wisp. Once you're familiar with Moltres, then you can consider switching to Charizard to make more bombastic plays. Houndoom is extremely niche as a pursuit user that beats Gengar's WoW and any Dusclops without earthquake, but it does the job very well if your team really needs the ghosts gone and want to run a more physical Tyranitar.

>>57887553
Close combat is pretty impactful

What are some mons you guys use that always end up over performing or getting value outside of their role?
The main two that come to mind for me is the mileage I get out of Drill Peck Skarm. Even with no attack investment it's great for getting some chip on incoming Starmies or Gengars to put them in ohko range of my other moms.
Utility/spdef Gengar as well. Usually lasts me through the entirety of the midgame and forces switches. Will o miss landing on any phys attacker is huge for me.

>>57888568
>>57888577
Yeah, now that Mr. Mime can't pass in for free to negate Roar.

>>57888688
Excadrill and Seismitoad. Yes I am a rain-fag.

>>57888715
Rain is the only fun way to play the game after gen 3

I wished Close Combat was nerfed to shit, I miss the days of Fighting types needing to rely on either mediocre but reliable moves or powerful but gimmicky techniques to achieve victory instead of just spamming a broken 120 nuke with downsides that might as well not exist.
>>57888630
I've been using a few sets
that run Sunny Day on a few Pokemon as a surprise tool before they go down for me to then switch in Charizard and nuke them back in return hard, funnily enough I haven't used Moltres much in spite of it generally being superior as a Fire spammer, I have not used Houndoom at all, it's not fast enough, it's bulk sucks, it doesn't hit hard enough, it does seem like a good Pursuit user though.
Funnily enough speaking of shitty mixed attackers, I had more success running Camerupt in ADV than I had any opportunities to even use Blaziken, which is really funny to me.
>>57888688
Dusclops and Celebi, I use Calm Mind + Will-o-Wisp Dusclops with a lot of physical investment as a way to tell Snorlax, Metagross and Aerodactyl to eat shit, it does surprisingly well at being a dangerous threat itself after a few boosts with Ice Beam and the elemental punches, albeit it's kinda hard to optimize it's movepool since I need to run either Rest or Pain Split on it. I typically use Celebi as a boost passer, but Lech Seed spam and tolerably decent Grass stab does surprisingly well at keeping up the offensive pressure too.

>>57888719
I played a lot of Gen 4 Ubers back in the day because of Kyogre's permanent rain Drizzle. I've been running Rain ever since then. Pelipper is probably my favorite Pokemon to use because of how it combines U-turn with Rain.

>>57888723
Close Combat should be nerfed to 115 power and Superpower should be buffed to 125.

>>57888747
90 power should be the maximum allowed damage it should be able to do, then I'd buff Submission to 100 power and accuracy out of sheer spite. I just hate Close Combat, I hate how literally every single fucking Pokemon in the game keeps getting access to this mistake, the only move I hate more than it would be Knock Off.

>>57888607
>Is it just me or does Blaziken suck massive cock in ADV?
Short answer: it's just you.
>I heard so many faggots saying it was a fantastic mixed attacker
It is. The caveat is that Milotic and Suicune mostly neutralize it (just as they do Charizard), and that you have to pick between HP Ice and HP Grass, so it never threatens everything all at once.
>that threatened the Blissey and Skarmory
and Tyranitar and Metagross
this sentiment was actually more prevelant some years ago back when the conventional wisdom was that Big 5 TSS was some kind of pinnacle of the format, so many more people ran it than they do now, and all 5 of them are threatened by Blaziken
Teams have moved away from Big 5 now and the mon choices are varied in such a way that Blaziken isn't as free as it may have been a while ago
If you want the actual "premier" mixed attacker of the metagame, it's been Salamence for a while now, and then Charizard, and then maybe Tyranitar, and then maybe offensive Swampert
Where does Blaziken fit in? That's the crux: no one knows right now; nobody smart is currently publicly working on the problem of what to do with Blaziken; few people question the potential, but the practice is very much up in the air
>it never does jack fucking shit on my end even with amazing prediction
you haven't said your set and comp
>also splitting the IVs for a mixed set tends to make it shittier in general
that's how mixed attacking works
did you know that mixed salamence invests nothing into Atk and sometimes even uses a -Atk nature?
>it's prime Dugtrio bait
you should be using Substitute
I guess Breloom and Heracross are also prime dugtrio bait in your mind
>CHADzard on the other hand
being easier to use or better documented doesn't actually mean superiority
if you aren't a high caliber player than yes you shouldn't be using an experimental Pokemon

>>57888942
>if you aren't a high caliber player than yes you shouldn't be using an experimental Pokemon
Buddy it's a video game

>>57888688
This is an example of Drill Peck Skarmory "overperforming" (1500s; 1st against a 1700s):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2329360612-g02d0jm553pbl4opu1yfxtdlylxq7shpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-2341051201

>>57888944
>Buddy it's a video game
And you're a casual.

>>57888719
You haven't played hail and dragmag.

>>57888711
>now
it's been years since then

>>57888966
Nah. Just not high off my own supply. Being on such a high horse over a video game with no consequences is just pure insecurity. I enjoy the game but I also enjoy not being an unlikeable sludge human.

>>57888011
To be fair, Archaludon is in Nat Dex RU, so it's not like SV is too comparable, Close Combat from Mega Lopunny is a guaranteed ohko on Roaring Moon, even if it has a defense boost from grassy seed.

>>57888942
I almost feel like ignoring this post because it reeks of pretention and deluded superiority complex, but okay, I'll bite.
>Just for you
I was looking it up, but from what I've been seeing the opinion that Blaziken is largely a jobber seems to be a fairly popular one and very few of the tards that try to make it work see much success.
>It's completely shat upon by several popular and niche Pokemon and never threatens everything all at once
I'll put it like the other anon said, Blaziken is often destroyed by the very things it's meant to check, because it just doesn't do enough, it's an extremely awkward Pokemon that is hard to build around and is easily outdone by several other popular picks.
>Only good machup is against the big 5
Which even then wasn't that great, because big surprise, Blaziken eats shit from spikes and sand and still has to find opportunities to switch, Fighting moves often don't do enough to KO Blissey, Tyranitar and Metagross can easily boost their speeds and fuck over Blaziken hard, so many popular Pokemon outside of the big 5 destroy Blaziken without even trying, Suicuine is very common, switches for free against it and gets free Calm Mind boosts, go ahead, use HP Grass, it won't do shit.
>My comp
Typically Skarmory, Blissey/Dusclops, Celebi, Claydol/Starmie, Aerodactyl and Zapdos or Charizard, set up spikes, try to grab a few boosts with Celebi and pass them around while keeping up pressure, Zard, Zapdos and Dusclops are typically my win conditions, it's not the best team on the planet, but it handles things well enough and I typically use a lot of unconvetional sets to get people off guard, it's still a work in progress, but it got me to 1600 just fine.
Heracross is a wind condition, ironic that you jerk yourself off as an "elite gamer" yet don't know how to properly use Hera.
>HURR DURR, JUS CUS IT'S EASIER TO FIT INTO LITERALLY EVERY TEAM IN THE FORMAT DOESN'T MAKE IT BETTER
Nigger, do you listen to yourself?

>>57889050
>I almost feel like ignoring this post because it reeks of pretention and deluded superiority complex
Honestly I'm surprised a majority of my experiences with the ADV OU community have been pretty fuckin pleasant - old communities like that are usually full of these insufferable elitist types. He just shows up and vomits out a wall of smug insults like he's allergic to seeing other people actually enjoy Pokemon. Complete conversational dead-end of a person.

ban urshifu from natdex.

>>57889050
What Dusclops sets do you run? So far I've only ran Gengar or Banette, haven't messed around with Dusclops, though I have run into those cursed Misdreavus Perish Song comps.

>>57889024 #
You know what else you're not high on? The ladder.

>>57888964
I thought you were an 1800s player?

>>57889050
>it reeks of pretention and deluded superiority complex
you're projecting because you yourself actually have an inferiority complex about this
not once beyond mentioning Substitute (which is or should be commonsense) did I ever imply to have answers no one else does

>I was looking it up
where? smogdex is dead; r/stunfisk is nothing
there is nothing to look up; you either play and know these things or you don't
if solved Blaziken things existed, they'd be used, visible, and succeeding

>very few of the tards that try to make it work see much success
here's another "elitist" newsflash for you: if you're operating below 1600s (and that's generous), what you're doing largely doesn't matter and serves as little more than proof of concept

>Blaziken is often destroyed by the very things it's meant to check, because it just doesn't do enough, it's an extremely awkward Pokemon that is hard to build around and is easily outdone by several other popular picks
whatever you say
don't use it (right now); it's not for you
let someone else figure it out and then circle back

>Which even then [...]
You don't understand at the least the concepts of gamestate and positioning. That's my answer to that whole paragraph.

>Typically Skarmory, Blissey/Dusclops, Celebi, Claydol/Starmie, Aerodactyl and Zapdos or Charizard
it's funny how you missed the fact the point-out was posed to the Blaziken user; your team here is irrelevant

>Heracross is a wind condition, ironic that you jerk yourself off as an "elite gamer" yet don't know how to properly use Hera.
What are you even talking about; you've lost the plot

>JUS CUS IT'S EASIER TO FIT INTO LITERALLY EVERY TEAM IN THE FORMAT DOESN'T MAKE IT BETTER
Correct.

>>57889201
>you're projecting because you yourself actually have an inferiority complex about this
no anon. everyone is not projecting. you really are just an annoying freak.

1v1 me on random battles pussy

>>57889128
From experience with me it's the same, other ADV players are typically pretty chill, unlike RBY and Gen 2 fags. I think he's the same fag that tried to start shit with me on the other thread too.
>>57889139
Typically Will-o-Wisp sets with either Rest or Pain Split, and one offensive move offensive move and Calm Mind and occasionally I experiment running two offensive moves, typically Ice Beam and Thunder Punch and leave the Calm Mind boosting duty to my Baton Pass Celebi, Dusclops bulks out on both defensive sides, spin blocks, is immune to Explosion and just sits there, if you're running Rest Blissey and Toxic spammers can't do shit against you, Pain Split has it's uses, but it's a bit more niche. The whole point of the set is making a fat fucking wall that sits there and eventually gets enough boosts that there's basically nothing save for a +6 Suicune that can really pose much of a threat against you, if you abuse Leech Seed against walls like Blissey or Snorlax, congrats, you're putting those niggers on suicide watch.
I've been also experimenting with a very bulky set that's focused around using Curse, Shadow Ball, Rest and Imprison to completely fuck over Snorlax.

>>57889179
I was. Reread the name: "level".
Ratings decay means my 2-3 games per week doesn't get carried very high up.
Preempting objections: if someone was world class a year ago in a sport, but then on semi-hiatus the next, would that mean their analysis on current events is now invalid? Rhetorical question.

I also watch a lot of contemporary footage of others playing the tier, as for example the Jimvitational ongoing.

>>57889202
I don't care if you find me annoying. I recommend you grow thicker skin and git gud. The fact you're so concerned with tone and diction, and not substance, makes it clear to me how out of depth you feel.

>>57889201
Dude, look at the way you talk, and you say I'm projecting.
>Where and who?
I know Jim is a bit of a joke and I certainly think he's a fucking tard a lot of the time, but he's pretty competent into ADV and quite a few people in ADV Revival shared similar thoughts on Blaziken being kinda shit in the VODs, I'm not gonna pretend I remember the names of the big fags besides ABR, whom I don't remember the opinions of regarding the matter.
>Proceeds to act like a smug cunt again and somehow thinks my assertion and description of the way he acts is incorrect
Okay dude, at this point I'm genuinely convinced you're baiting for (you)s and attention whoring, there's no way someone can be this fucking delusional, you're ironically enough given the topic, acting like a preening rooster who thinks he's hottest shit in the farm.
>He keeps digging a whole for himself
>I once again give him a simple answer and he moves the goalpost to try and save face
Musk, is that you? The ego, the autistic lack of awarness, the obsession with Blaziken, it would make sense.
>>57889212
Nobody in this thread agrees with you, and at this point I'm entirely convinced you're just desperately whoring for attention.

>>57889212
Lol nah. We're here to have fun talking about Pokemon. This isn't your personal courtroom. Kindly fuck off if you're so much better than us.

>>57889234
Jim is smart and competent when he locks in. Youtubers are just easy punching bags.

>>57889209
damn huge aura loss. I guess you were a fraud after all

>>57889349
What I say should be proof in itself if you've the experience sufficient enough to grasp it in its entirety; if you're not on that level then it may seem implausible. I've invited you all several times to ask anything, and you could have chosen any matter as a litmus test, but even that opportunity's evidently been beyond you all. If you don't care, continue ignoring the invitation and responses as you have largely done thus far.

And by the way, if the wording of the above bothers you, it's most likely because you never went to college or even took advanced courses in high school, which is a personal issue.

>>57889382
not reading any of that lol take a shower

Why cant we ban regenerator in SS OU, besides the generation being over

>>57889424
Gens 6 through 8 kinda feel like they're in the weird grey area of being old but not novel like gens 1 - 3

>>57889421
>not reading
your consistent problem

i think everyone involved in this thread should die

>>57889476
No you don't

>>57889476
you've got memes and porn to catch up on

>>57889470
>>57889483
abr will never fuck you lil bro

>>57889498
and you will never come close to even a tenth his skill and understanding of the game
"have fun" though

>>57887069
he got flinchinatored

>>57889507
topkek

>>57889503
Why are you so offended at people having fun lol
By any chance are you jobless?

>>57889513
Astounding you come away from this chain thinking I'm the one who's offended.
No.

>>57888942
>>57889050
>>57889201
There we go. Autistic competitive faggotry is what I come in here for. Nobody on r/stunfisk actually plays the game (above 1200) and smogon forums are more polite (as of this decade), but this is a real treat.

>>57888607
>does Blaziken suck massive cock in ADV?
recursive cock sucking

>>57889518
Don't feed the schizo we've been trying to get rid of him

>>57889528
>we've
you and your butt(hurt) buddy

>>57888018
Maybe Finch isn't that bad after all

>>57888800
Close Combat is fine with it's power and effect. The problem is that everything gets it now. In gen 4 only 8/15 fighting type lines got it with only 5 non fighting types getting it. In gen 9 44/48 fighting type lines got it and 34 non fighting types get it. Maybe the ratio should go down even from gen 4, but it allows an otherwise mediocre or bad fighting type to be pretty good and is a defining feature of the non fighting types. Move access power creep is insufferable. I understand that it was bad that barely any bugs had usuable stab in gen 3 or that stab was only for your lower attacking stat, but I think by gen 4 they had gotten it right. It's boring when everything gets everything.

>>57889209
>if someone was world class a year ago in a sport, but then on semi-hiatus the next, would that mean their analysis on current events is now invalid?
Not necessarily, but to call yourself an 1800s player makes people think you're an 1800s player in today's meta. You're not bad, but the weight of what you say about the is lesser now.

>>57889561
you keep dropping an undroppable keyword

>>57888942
>being easier to use or better documented doesn't actually mean superiority
In a game that revolves around consistency, it often does. You would know this if you actually played the damn game, or any game at all for that matter.

How on earth are we still having the power vs consistency debate in 2025?

>>57889714
If *you* actually played the game you would know you just created a strawman.

>>57889555
Trips of truth. I think CC is fine as well but don't like everything getting it. I think the movepool bloat, for lack of a better term, is a a problem. Homogenization removes niches for weaker Pokemon, decreasing diversity. Same thing with Knock Off. I was fine with it when Z-Moves and Megas existed, making it less spam able and creating openings for stuff like Mega Heracross, DD Mega Tyranitar, etc. Also removal of certain moves like Defog is a issue in Gen 9. At least reduced distribution of Scald and Toxic was a good change. I agree that Gen 4 feels about right.

Lots of people had school today I see.

>>57891485
Work*

I did my time, but I don't remember doing any crime.

Another GOATed video?

>>57891708
FSG is so boring, I can't stand the videos any more

>>57891708
"Another"?!? >>57891740
Watching BKC's ghost channel is "Tell me you don't play the game without telling me you don't play the game".

I need more jimothy gen 3 ou videos on his gaming channe

Can't decide on the next team I want to hop to

>>57891708
Eh, it was alright. It honestly feels like FSG is just trying to drag out their content as long as possible because there's no Gen 10 in sight.

>>57891782
Play rain. Yes, even if it's Gen 2. If you're playing Gen 1 you can go fuck yourself.

They were novel at first but the videos are so repetitive and formulaic and dry. Not to mention they basically said nothing when Hax died

>>57891787
What does a Pokemon YouTube channel have to do with Hax?

>>57891784
Yeah it all feels samey. Doesn't help that BKC is obnoxious. It's slop.

False Swipe Gaming's premise was collecting standard opinion and making it consumable for people who do not play the game.

FSG isn't bad, they've just run out of content because generations started lasting longer. Gen 10 isn't going to come until at least 2026, maybe even longer, considering Game Freak already revealed the 2 games they were working on. That means FSG has to pad out what few Pokemon remain to make videos about with generic comp analysis videos.

WolfeyVGC is in the same conundrum. Nothing to make videos about and yet he's obligated to upload weekly.

how does anyone have fun playing these 100+ turn defensive wall teams man

>>57891833
Consistency. Usually their opponents quit by like turn 30 because they can sense resistance is futile. Nothing makes them madder than when you drag the battle out and manage to beat their stall team with a "lucky" crit.

>>57887758
Dumb fucking Haghu

>>57891825
Not true. Wolfeys videos are kino. Bro just put out a four hour video last week and it's doing gangbusters. He's the best Poketuber because he's the best player and a good content creator. Haydunn is the only other good one.

>>57891849
The only thing consistency gets you is pokemon showdown funbux e-points.

>>57891858
Which is why the people who run Stall are typically people trying to do suspect tests.

>>57891877
Fuck you. And fuck Pokemon

>>57891485
Try working on the fields nearly all day having to deal with cows that are as stubborn as it gets and having to chop wood all morning until your hands are numb just to make a living.
>>57891708
FSG never striked me as the kind of guy who even plays comp, his content has become so stale it's just depressing, BKC being involved doesn't make it any better.

>>57891920
Because BKC is a very model of a smogonfaggot with the same nonsense reasoning justifying opinions about what decisions in policy should be taken as well as the hard-headed arrogance to believe one is smarter than they really are to the extent that they possess the correct opinion on the matter that can only be challenged by those who don't know what they're talking about. So if you've heard enough of these types to have come to see right through them, and actually played these metagames yourself to the extent that you observe things that they seem to never discuss themselves, then his scripts for FSG offer no value whatsoever. His own channel now has been lacking in original and thought-provoking insight for a while now. It's all just another drop in the bucket of civilization's enshittification period of the past decade or so.

>>57891920
*struck

>>57891858
Consistency is a direct measure of the quality of a team or play. To be consistent is to be validated in one's skill, and to be validated in one's skill is to be affirmed of Pokemon mastery, which is deep down what it was always about.

>>57891978
You consistently wet the bed until you were 16, Robert. Maybe you should master your bladder.

>>57892015
>Maybe you should master your bladder.

I might as well play one of those retarded smeargle HO teams. at least its over in 10 turns win or lose

>>57892121
There are better suicide leads than Smeargle, especially because Spore is banned

>>57891963
BKC and Jim's takes on metas like gen 4 piss me off, Machamp was not the fucking issue, not by a long fucking shot, everyone who played that dogshit format and wasn't so far up their own ass that they couldn't form their own unique thoughts could see Latias and Celebi were the fucking problems, that banning Froslass was retarded and petty. What I find amazing is that Jim's source as to why Machamp needed to be banned was posting a singular video of a singular instance where Machamp getting a confusion proc actually did something, meanwhile he spent most of his gen 4 videos getting fucked by several other Pokemon instead and got buckbroken by Jirachi. I didn't watch all of the gen 4 VODs, so I can't claim I saw his entire journey, but even he for as stuck up as he can be, saw what the issues were and still pretended Machamp was what needed to go.

>>57892179
Jimothy didn't have a strong opinion on Machamp. He's a little spineless so he just assumed there was validity to the bitching. By the end of his experience he realized the whole format is fucked.

BKC is culpable to an extent. He expressed repeatedly that he'd rather have banned Dynamic Punch and was frustrated that the council was blocking it on bogus policy claims. But still, he'd rather have the mon banned than not.

Celebi? That's news to me. But I did realize Latias was bullshit early on.

But again, Jimothy was just bandwagoning by playing it safe deferring to people's opinions he thought he could trust, but then realized those opinions were bullshit and the product of brain damage. Including the idea that Machamp was uniquely problematic.

Essentially he kept running into extremely defensively robust teams that left little room for counteractive teambuilding, and on top of that the rating requirements were so steep that he as a noob had so little grace and leeway that his regular losses prevented him from ever coming close.

It's actually a lot. His rant video alone I think was like 10s of minutes was it not? But personally I think it's all moot. Yes, it's a shame that my 2nd favorite gen is unplayable, but my 1st favorite gen is now the most dominant, so no skin off my back really. Smogtards can keep their ruined formats and ruin them some more. Who cares at this point; they'd need a total rollback to be saved at this point, which is not happening.

>>57892179
>>57892223
>Meant to say Jirachi
>I'm so tired and sleep drunk that I ended up saying Celebi
Fuck my life.
I remember now the whole requirement retardation, imagine needing essentially a 100% winrate just to be able to vote on a format that's unsalvageably unbalanced just to have a chance of making your opinion be heard, this screams corruption and negligence. It was already pretty obvious a bunch of votes were being rigged by smogonfags and especially (((Finch))), but this and the whole Kyurem deblace almost felt comedical.

>>57892179
I don't follow him too much but he seems fine as far as gen 4 goes. BKC is a tard. Very recently he was saying how good stupid eon dragon was for gen four. Absolute tard. It's not like the type chart has changed since gen four.

BKC will never admit Jirachi or Latias are the problem with Gen 4 because he wants to fuck them.

>>57892223
Honestly, the Gen 8 hate is overdone. Gen 8 is actually, dare I say, one of the BETTER gens competitively after all of Smogon's bans. The meta is too defensive for sure, but it's a carefully built house of cards where if you ban Toxapex and Slowking to make the tier better, suddenly Melmetal becomes bullshit, and if you ban Melmetal then Clefable and especially Tapu Lele become too strong.

IMO:

3 > 9 > 7 > 5 > 8 > 6 > 1 > 4 > 2

I fucking hate Snorlax

>>57892248
>>I'm so tired and sleep drunk that I ended up saying Celebi
I probably should have picked up on it being Jirachi meant. I just took it at face-value.

>I remember now the whole requirement retardation, imagine needing essentially a 100% winrate just to be able to vote on a format that's unsalvageably unbalanced just to have a chance of making your opinion be heard
yep it's messed up how stringent they've gotten; in my opinion, winrate, and exceedingly high ones at that, are not the optimal metrics for capturing legitimacy and competency while also having a democratic vibe. In my opinion, being qualified for high mid-ladder should be enough.

>>57892258
I don't know if he genuinely believes that or if he's that full of himself that he'll unwaver from convincing himself he never erred.

>>57892326
Gen 8 is mostly defined by Balance. Hard to say that's the worst gen.

>>57892378
He's an annoying retard that inserts his politics constantly and can't make videos for shit. He's awful.

>>57892326
Gen 1 and Gen 2 are pretty much better than all the rest of them after Gen 3. Pokemon is fundamentally RNG on the one hand; on the other hand you have what is essentially the prototype of Gen III, and as such it has a number of obscure parallels such as the high impact of teambuilding choices on what kind of experience you'll have playing. Gen II shills portray and explain the tier really badly, when experience with my hat in the ring deviated from both my spectating and their shilling alike, for the better.

>>57892387
>He's an annoying retard that inserts his politics constantly and can't make videos for shit. He's awful.
That's neither unfair nor inaccurate, but my clarification is that he treats it now as *his* channel, not a Pokemon channel. He could start uploading movie reviews with no Pokemon references to that channel and it wouldn't be off-brand at this point. He could upload a male feminist rant video with no Pokemon references and it wouldn't be off-brand at this point. He just doesn't care anymore and enjoys being stroked for being himself no matter what he says, like those half-joking "My opinion on (X) just dropped" comments. He doesn't play Pokemon that much anymore on top of that. Altogether he's just let things go to his head because his audience is overly enamored with him. But bear in mind he earned that enamorement with his prior years of higher quality content.

>>57892390
Gen 1 sucks ass for several reasons.

1. There is very little customization. No Hidden Power, no IVs, no EVs, no held items, no abilities, nothin'. Even moveset "customization" is a meme since most Pokemon have like 3 - 6 good moves.
2. RNG is fucking evil. Freeze is effectively a OHKO in the gen since no one runs Fire types. Partial Trapping Moves can eat 30+ turns of your time with nothing you can do with no lefties to heal off the damage. Paralysis is everywhere. Sleep is everywhere. Crits are as common as 40% because speed affects crits. It's genuinely awful.
3. Pokemon variety is incredibly minimal. You have a pool of 6 auto-includes that you can at most skip 2 of or you're throwing the game. Not running Tauros is like not running Snorlax in Gen 2 or Tyranitar in Gen 3. Exeggutor ruins games with its sleep + boom. Chansey is an offensive threat, both offensive to the senses and offensive in that it can actually shit out damage because no Special Split. Alakazam is just a stat stick with T Wave and Recover. Snorlax is Snorlax. I hate them all.
4. Outside of the auto-includes, you HAVE TO run a Zapdos check or you lose to Zapdos, but there's literally nothing Zapdos can do to Rhydon or Golem, so if you include a Zapdos counter you just switch it in whenever Zapdos is out without any thought.
5. I just really hate Exeggutor.

Gen 2 is obviously one of the worst metas ever, I don't think I need to elaborate on why the slowest meta of all time, a meta slower than fucking CROWN TUNDRA GEN 8 by average turn count, is terrible.

Did the namefag ever post his elo?

>>57891858
i like winning. i like people calling me a nigger for using a hazard setting ting lu. i makes me feel good.

>>57892421
>Gen 1 sucks ass for several reasons
let's hear you out

>1. There is very little customization.
that's untrue in general, but let's hear the specifics

>No Hidden Power
that's a terrific thing and a blessing; it's what makes Zapdos merely a decent mon than a dominant one, getting totally walled by Rhydon and Golem and tripped up by Jolteon and even the likes of Sandslash; that's awesome for game balance
Articuno and Moltres end up worse than otherwise too, but nobody should be playing Pokemon for muh legendaries anyway; and besides, you can still make both work even despite their type limitations

>no IVs
no EVs
that's also fantastic; I literally have to put 0 thought into tinkering with tedious numbers like an autist, and can instead focus on what really matters: the movesets---which are mindblowingly customizable, actually, especially if you go into the tier with this mindset that you actually *don't* have a plethora of viable options---you'll be pleasantly surprised as you get more into it

>no held items
also great
no leftovers, no lum berry, no choice scarf, nothing but pure raw Pokemon

>no abilities
you don't need those
you could disable Abilities in Gen 3 OU and it'd still be interesting and innovative

>Even moveset "customization" is a meme since most Pokemon have like 3 - 6 good moves.
leaving aside how true that even is, the good moves are super impactful
>Clamp
>Wrap
>Amnesia
>Lovely Kiss
>Recover
>Counter
>Pin Missile
>Swords Dance
the mechanics are so alien that Gen 1 OU teambuilding is more like using a customs character in a fighting game, each with their own unique gimmick that heavily defines their playstyle while still leaving room for "assists" preferences and tactical preferences

>>57892421
>2. RNG is fucking evil.
the single best thing about a long stint in Gen 1 competitive is that it forces its players to stop being delusional pussies who think Pokemon is some nobler game than it actually is, because the reality is, if you can't handle Gen 1 hax, then you don't actually even like Pokemon. You want Smogmon. And if that's what you want then yeah you're better off sticking to nugen tiers with all their guardrailing and cordoning.

>3. Pokemon variety is incredibly minimal. You have a pool of 6 auto-includes that you can at most skip 2 of or you're throwing the game.
This is a very "I don't play the game but do listen to smogshitters who don't think about the game" opinion to have. You're not forced to run anyone to win in Gen 1 OU. Everyone is droppable. Tyranitar is droppable, Skarmory is droppable, Gengar is droppable, Swampert is droppable, Blissey is droppable---the thing is, it's your responsibility to figure out what direction you'll be going instead. And further paralleling Gen 3 OU, you can fish out the murkiest supposed low-tier "shitmons" like Sandslash & Golem and put them to work to astounding effect in OU. But you have to fundamentally understand the game to accomplish that.
>What's their gimmick? How valuable is that in a vacuum?
>What's their value proposition in the tier? Who and what does it dunk on?
>What would it take to ingratiate & incorporate them? Is the support they'll need feasible?
You literally just have to have a working brain of slightly above average intelligence to make it work. Guys like Gambler Keegan have done it with full or mostly teams of "shitmons" as a personal intellectual challenge, for pleasure.
As an aspiring Pokemon master, you're supposed to take pride in pushing the meta forward in ways others cannot predict. You're supposed to distrust conventional wisdom & established knowledge, and push your instincts to their limit. Even now Gen I OU contains so much uncharted and untrodded ground to pioneer.

>>57892421
>4. Outside of the auto-includes, you HAVE TO run a Zapdos check or you lose to Zapdos
this sounds like you had a bad personal experience with a personal taste for zados-weak structures, which I know from experience is common in low ladder because I breezed up to 1400s with a very short time of starting the tier with a team that featured Zapdos, whom I thought was beastly, but further experience revealed soon had more limitations than was realized.

>5. I just really hate Exeggutor.
Essentially your problem is you have yet to get a team you love to play and explore the metagame further with and quit early from frustration, feeling justified as you were with the low-hanging fruit takes you read about in preparation for your misadventure. I assure you that thankfully your initial perception was misled.

>Gen 2 is obviously one of the worst metas ever
You are also wrong about that, but that's its own series of explanatory posts.

>>57892436
He posted a couple replays. He's about 1400-1500 assuming that was really him lol

>>57892129
I only play gen 3 ou

>>57892314
Jirasif

>>57892418
Tar is not nearly as egregious as Tauros or Snorlax

>>57892439
Stall doesn't exist in gen 9

>>57892517
None of them are that "egregious" when you open your mind up more. Silly, yes, that's fair, but egregious is too strong a word and not reflective of how playing against them actually shakes out when you know what you're doing.

>>57892521
then what do you call the Blissey + bulky water et cetera teams with ~all Heavy Duty Boots

>>57892508
No wonder he's up-playing Blaziken so hard kek

>>57892538
Use your 200bp attack that sets hazards and buffs your cock cells or whatever

>>57892572
you didn't read carefully enough

>>57892579
Read this *punches you in the face* fat bitch

>>57892521
Stupid people call any balance team that tries to make a 2hko consistent with hazards a stall team. It doesn't matter. It gives me a serotonin boost anyway.

>>57892521
It certainly does, at least until their braindead wincon, Dragonite, finally gets banned.

>>57892538
Barely any of them can deal with Ogerpon that also has knock off.

>>57892732
Or Hoopa-U. I've been running Hoopa-U on a webs team and it works out great. I only lost to 1 Stall team and it was one that ran Thundurus-T to fight back.

>>57892459
>It's a good thing that there is literally only moveset customization in Gen 1
lol

>>57892387
Exactly. Wolfe is a leftist too IIRC but he keeps that out of his videos but I still enjoy them quite a bit. BKCis unbearable. And he's wrong about gen 4.

>>57891825
I just want Wolfey's video on the best Rock types so that I can laugh...

>>57893224
Yes. A "simplistic" game like that allows you to go into the builder and just get right down to business, being able to whip up something way quicker than you could in any other gen because you don't have to spend hours fiddling with numerical values with razor sharp margins that only reveal themselves through lengthy trial and error.

Its *different*, and ultimately that *is* the value of Gen 1 OU: a completely alien experience from what you're familiar with which ends up radically altering your perspective on Pokemon for good.

>>57893391
Smogonism itself is political. Real world politics aren't much of a step away if you're willing to discuss the former aloud.

I wished I could find a way to make Togedemaru work in gen 7 OU or UU, sadly bulky Groundniggers are everywhere and Sturdy cheese only works if I can keep the field completely clear from hazards, which is also a pain in the ass. I will never forget winning a really undeserved victory by paraflinching a Tapu Lele to death a while back.
>>57892258
Latias melts Steels as bulky as Heatran with Draco Meteor spam and Tyranitar, which in theory should be able to handle Latias, is washed away by Surf, nothing about Latias is healthy for the meta and Latias existing enables Jirachi to continue existing in the tier as an excuse. BKC is blatantly retarded and far too stuck up, I haven't watched his videos in a long time, but he's the kind of faggot who comes up with poorly informed takes he sees as fact and even when presented with clear fucking evidence he's wrong, he will actively refuse to admit he made a mistake because his petty little ego can't take a single blow. The shittiest part is that a dozen weak willed little faggots take his opinion as fact too. Then there's the fact he's a libshit who loves running his mouth during his videos.
>>57892326
I don't like gen 8, but after all the bans were handed, especially Urshifu, the tier became a whole lot more stable, I think the stall shit is unquestionably awful and that Toxapex is an abortion of a Pokemon that should have been banned from OU since gen 7, but you could do worse in terms of generation, I also like gen 7 a lot, but mainly UU, gen 7 OU is ruined by a few shitters like Kartana and Toxapex existing, you also never know when the inevitably Z-Nukes will drop. I am not the biggest fan of gen 5 though, weather wars aside, the meta feels far too unstable and there's far too many Pokemon that just win off of a single boost. I can't help but agree gens 4, 1 and 2 are just utter dogshit. Gen 6 exists in this weird limbo between shit and kinda decent.

>>57893769
2, maybe 3 if that's pushing it.

>>57893862
>you also never know when the inevitably Z-Nukes will drop
that made me quit playing gen 7 shortly after it released when it was current gen

>>57893862
>gens 1 and 2 are just utter dogshit
nah
see
>>57892459
>>57892477
>>57892486

>>57893861
why the fuck would i randomly start talking about real politics to people just because we both play pokemon

>>57893945
Smogonism is dictatorial communist in nature, and the kind that'd subscribe to it is likely to also be the kind who'd be glib and smug about real world liberal politics, is how I see it.
You can care about competitive Pokemon without such political affinity, but it's Smogonism in particular that engenders the particular discursed mindset. Make of it what you will.

not reading allat

>>57893885
Can't say I blame you, seeing Victini Z-Celebrate Stored Power sets on low to mid ladder pissed me off something fierce, having to face the same dumb rain teams dropping Waterium-Z nukes off of Scald was retarded, Ash Grenigger, Kartana and Blacephalon nuking everything was not fun either.
>>57893890
>Complains about customization and says fine tuning EVs is dumb
>Says trying to find a giga specific set on a shitmon and put herculean effort into trying to make it work, which would be considerably more autistic than the former is a-okay
Dude, gen 1 and 2 are just frustrating and having to bend my own expectations, likes and patience to try and getting accustomed to two formats that are blatantly awful in their own ways is just not something I or most others are willing to do, I am willing to dedication so much autistic attention to any given thing before it becomes a hassle and I don't want to deal with it anymore, gen 1 status, crit and other bullshit mechanics are no fun to have to deal with, if a game at any point becomes almost solely based on abusing luck based shittery, it is not good. The only interesting aspects of gen 1 is how odd it is and the bizarre mechanics that make it seemingly charming at a surface level glance. Gen 2 is just a grindfest, it's like WW1 made into Pokemon, every army is issued a powerful weapon (a tank) they have to protect at all costs as a win condition in Snorlax, every aspect of the meta revolves around Snorlax to some extent and it's groupies, you can make large and explosively plays at times, but things will typically remain a grindfest with both sides taking potshots on occasion while both fester in the trenches.
>>57893945
I am thankful you never had the displeasure of seeing the chats on smogon, it's a literal communist shithole filled with creatures to pathetic and obnoxious that they make /vp/ seem like a nice place by comparison, OU chat a few years back was filled with nothing but talk about libshit politics.

>>57894087
I am only so willing to dedicate*

>>57894087
OU is 13 mons you can easily just default to 3/6 slots filled with the other half being your personal favorites of the 10. You aren't obligated to dig. But the fact that you can and make dozens of them work if you're skilled is the point.
Reading comprehension.

>having to bend my own expectations, likes and patience to try and getting accustomed to two formats that are blatantly awful in their own ways is just not something I or most others are willing to do
and that's why you'll never hit the next level of overall skill

>>57887059 (OP)
Smogon OU /vp/ Council, better known as bedwetters anonymous

Used to play monotype in gen 7 and 8. I got pretty good. Though I only ever used rock. Reached top 3 in gen 8. Never found any other tier that is nearly as fun as mono in those gens was. The people in charge of banning were so biased in favour of steel and flying that it was aggravating at times.

>>57894087
I took one look at gen chat last week
It was full of gen alphas talking about high school
Immediately left

>>57894199
PLEASE post tag and elo screenshot

>>57894218
Why?

>>57893769
>Tyranitar
>Gigalith
>Coalossal
>Terrakion
>Stakataka
>H-Arcanine
>Rhyperior
>...
Yeah, he's kinda hurting for good options.

>>57893862
Oh yeah, Gen 7 is awful, but everything else is worse in its own unique way. Gen 3 and 9 are bad but they're ONLY bad and not awful or turbo-cancer.

Then again, I'm a weirdo who actually enjoys rain teams, so Gen 7 is a type of awful that speaks to me.

>>57894456
Is that literally it? I only started watching/playing VGC in the last few years so I'm not familiar with pre SW/SH. That does make sense why they made Garganacl then lol. So few good ones outside of Godzilla.

>>57894471
>Gen 3 is bad
it's the best actually

>>57894471
I really like Pelipper and Swampert so that's why I like Gen 7. It's a little braindead but that's okay.

>>57894517
Yeah, everything below Stakataka is lacking major victories. Gigalith was used in early SM VGC because it got Sand Stream, so it's just diet Tyranitar. Coalossal was used in early SS with Weakness Policy + Surf Dragapult to activate Steam Engine and WP while Coalossal was Gmaxed. Terrakion was only really good in Gen 5 because Fairies fucked him over good. Stakataka was good in late SM and even won a Worlds.

TTar, Stakataka, and Terrakion are the only Rock types to ever win at Worlds.

>>57894533
It's the best, but it's still bad. Dugtrio, Skarmbliss, Crocune, Baton Pass, perma-sand, TSS, Jirachi...

>>57894563
hating Arena Trap and Baton Pass is a sign of one simply disliking Pokemon period, like all Smogonites

>>57894554
Oh nice, ty anon. I didn't know that. I guess he could go with Ogerpon Rock, if that counts.

>>57894471
Gen 3 isn't bad. You type like a female

>>57894603
I only occasionally dabble in VGC because I want to be able to know what I'm talking about. I just know that Rock is even worse in VGC than in singles.

Game Freak started trying to make Rock types good in Gen 9 after they saw how the type was underperforming. That would explain why Glimmora, Garganacl, Iron Boulder, and Ogerpon-C are so good. Hell, they tried to make Klawf good, they just undershot it.

>>57894630
Yeah, I think Rock just needs mons pushed like that because it's weakness are so debilitating. Rock feels like just a shitty Steel or Ground type. That said, the new mons are really good so I'm confident we'll see more in the future.

>>57894915
That'd do nothing to help the 95% of Rock types that are pure shitmons because Rock is such a bad type currently. Garganacl being overtuned doesn't help Iron Thorns one bit

>>57894915
Rock should resist Rock. Or maybe an immunity+absorbtion of stealth rocks?

How much better would Rock as a type be if it was neutral to Ground instead of weak to it? I can imediately see a few Pokemon rising up in usage.
I think Rock also removing Stealth Rocks on entry by itself would already be a massive boon for them, it would make Aerodactyl, Archeops, Coalossal and a few others so much better.

>>57894966
Make it so only Rock types and Smeargle can learn Stealth Rock. Or give Stealth Rocks STAB so they deal half damage unless used by a Rock type.

I would suggest Rock resist Bug, but Bug has got it bad enough already as it is.

>>57895283
Eh just give it a resist to one of the rising overtuned types. Dark and Ghost have been going kinda nuts lately. I know Garg already got the Ghost resist but fuck current Ghosts lmao, they're fucking insane.

>tera fire kingambit
been encountering lots recently in mid ladder, is it just to absorb will-o-wisp?

>>57895508
and resist fire, which it would otherwise be weak to. skeledirge is one pokemon you can beat instead of losing to with this setup

>>57895508
It absorbs WoW and isn't weak to Fighting while resisting Fire.

>>57895283
bug resist dark
rock resist ghost

>>57895538
Dark is fine because Fairy fucks it up. It would be incredibly gay if Dark was resisted by Dark, Bug, Fairy, and Fighting while only hitting Ghost and Psychic for SE.

Ghost, meanwhile, is only resisted by 1 type.

>>57895669
Dark hits Normal for SE, in addition to >>57895538

>>57895729
Normal is already in the gutter after Game Freak took away Frustration and Return. The type has been on a downward trajectory since Gen 3 with the exception of Mega-Kangz and Mega-Bnuuy. Nerfing Normal seems cruel.

IMO, the way to go would be:
>Rock resists Bug and Ghost
>Fairy and Ghost no longer resist Bug
>Ice resists Water
>Scald changed to 70 base power and is SE against Ice types to match Freeze Dry being SE against Water types
>Psychic resists Poison
>Poison SE against Water

>>57895748
As long as U-Turn is dexited.

Remember when they did a April fools suspect test for Giratina-O to move to OU only to find out that it was fine in OU, but panicked because they didn't want a joke to undermine how silly the ratings are?

Good times.

>>57895759
No, U-turn is nerfed to 60 base power and Technician is buffed to be a 100% damage boost from 50%.

>>57895770
I'm convinced that a good chunk of Ubers would be fine in OU if everything after Palafin was unbanned. Bring back Chi-Yu, Espathra, Roaring Moon, and Baxcalibur and also drop Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, and Lugia.

>>57895775
Its not the power thats an issue. Its the rampant free sw*tching that it allows. Ideally, from lowest priority to highest, with higher beating lower
>normal switching
>trapping moves
>switching moves
>trapping abilities
>switching abilities (Run Away, etc)
Under the current regime, switching moves beat trapping abilities, which SUCKS.

>>57895770
Did that actually happen?

>>57887059 (OP)
>>57887423
Smogon will never let Lando drop. Their entire criteria for OU balance since 2012 has been to ban anything that beats it to Ubers (where it immediately drops to OUBL due to not actually being broken but being a hard Lando counter, see: Galarian Darmanitan).

I don't want to play with box legends in standard regardless of how bad they are in current year.

>>57895508
Blanks Moltres

Corrosion

That's it

>>57895823
It's been 13 years, anon. How do you still think Lando-T is some unstoppable juggernaut that nothing can beat?

>>57895869
learn to read smogclown

>>57895869
Its not unstoppable. It's the smogon council's favorite, and so long as its OU, it will stay OU even when it shouldve been banned in gens 5, 6, and possibly 7. The wrong Landorus was banned in gen 5. Landorus-Incarnate is weaker but speedier, and doesn't have intimidate iirc, which would solve a good bit of shit.

>>57895923
Incarnate Lando makes up for it by mauling everything that's in OU because of the combo of Sheer Force + Life Orb. Nidoking's been a force to be reckoned with in UU because of that combo despite the fact that it's only got Base 85 Special Attack, Lando-I has 115, it'd turn damn near anything in OU into confetti.

>plays gen 3 ou because of the shilling
>gets pressure sub-protect stalled by suicune, zapdos, and dusclops core in my first game

>>57895833
Id be fine with it if 67% voted unban, but that'll never happen, because they literally *are* broken in standard.

Zamazenta and Darkrai, and even Kyurem, should also really be uber, because they were uber in the previous gen, which means they are supposed to require 67% to unban, not 67% to BAN.

The ban votes were all like 55% ban which really means 45% unban. so they should be uber, not OU.

in contrast, Kyurem-B way back in the day in 2012 was voted fucking 75% UNBAN by smogon. (ironically the only tested it because their old competitor PO did first lol) (BKC was one of the "keep banned" voters of course, good old days)


Deoxys-speed and -defense are the only former-ubers that were rightfully unbanned in gen 9 (and they even fell lower than OU)


they wasted so much time in gen 9 unbanning broken things like roaring moon and then re-banning. zamazenta and darkrai should definitely be uber. personally I have a slight soft spot for kyurem becaused mixed attackers are cool but realistically it is broken... I would definitely ban zamazenta and darkrai before it though. they both got b& from nat dex.

>>57896086
not enough cookie cutter boring balance for you hm

>>57896086
it can get pretty stally just like any other meta. not every game is some 5D chess of TSS balance offense vs TSS balance offense, sometimes you have to play the blissskarm defense core minigame.

>>57896159
>5D chess of TSS balance offense vs TSS balance offense
you don't play

>>57896163
yeah yeah everyone but you is dumb whatever take a shower fatty

new entry hazard
>NOOOOOO
...Okay, two new entry hazards and one new ability to balance the latter one, fuck you.
Icicles, they're like ice type stealth rocks, they only hit Pokémon that aren't grounded and they automatically disappear when a non-grounded Pokémon is affected by them, unless it is snowing which maintains them, conversely they cannot go up in sunny day and fire attacks melt them even in snow.
Scorched earth applies burn to everything that is grounded and isn't a fire type, you can get rid of it with rain or a water attack.
Healthy Detachment sets up Safeguard when you switch out, not when you switch in.

>>57895748
can we get a normal resists fairy? I'm all for giving more checks to ghosts, but it's kinda coming close to taking away the only niche normal has.

>>57896305
I'd rather have Ice resist flying or fairy.

>>57895508
you can 1v1 alomomola without fearing scald burn

>>57895784
Trapping is bullshit and it's good that it's banned in most gens.

>>57895823
...G-darm was a top 5 Pokemon in Gen 8 Ubers...
...even after Crown Tundra dropped a shitton of legendaries and introduced Calyrex-S and Calyrex-I, G-Darm was still top 10...

>>57895923
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 251-296 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 195-229 (48.2 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

Lando-I is faster and hits harder.

>>57896498
Were the big 3 of gen 8 Ubers not Evilltall, Dungeon Master Necrozma and Señor Calyrex?

>>57887059 (OP)
Heatran is UU? Jesus fuck

do pro players hack in perfect IV dittos/parents and breed with them?

the grind to make a pokemon competitive-viable seems absolutely insane if not. like thousands of dreadful hours.

>>57896855
it's piss easy when 6 star raid dittos are guaranteed 5iv + bottle caps but they STILL hack in their mons because they are lazy bastards

>>57896915
Based. Game Freak deserves zero respect or integrity.

>>57896915
Good, fuck off cunt. Any step between me and the battling is dog shit. Not to mention there's still transfer moves and mons that only appear once per game.
I have no problem with VGC or console but having a problem with gen'ing is terminally online/caring way too much bout how others play the game behavior

>>57896548
They were Eternatus, Necrozma-Dungeon Master, and Yveltal with Shalyrex existing in a distant 4th place.

>>57896555
He's in a better place

>>57887059 (OP)
>the peak of competetive Pokemon
national dex doubles shits over it

>>57896966
>>57896976
Not only samefag, but also lazy and unwilling to fucking use bottle caps (which are dirt cheap in the inflated as fuck SV economy) to get perfect IV pokemon.

>>57897668
Not good enough for me. That's cool you enjoy that though

what would teams look like if no pokemon were banned

>>57896498
Astounding that Marshadow is an A+ tier Uber

>>57897883
which gen
to what extent
because without further context the answer is "ubers"

>>57897896
Not them but gen 9 OU, no bans beyond what was banned at the very, very start of the generation, before the quickbans but after what was already dropped.

>>57897886
Is it? Ubers is full of setup sweepers and Marshadow makes it dangerous to setup sweep.

>Immune to the most common priority move in the tier (Extreme Speed)
>Can live a hit with Focus Sash since ubers don't have multi-hit moves aside from Urshifu-R
>Has unresisted STAB
>Only support you need is something to remove Stealth Rocks
>The most used Pokemon in the tier runs Defog 99% of the time (Yveltal) and can U-turn into Marshadow if anything tries to set up on it

Marshadow then Close Combats/Spectral Thiefs your ass to death. And even if you don't have a setup sweeper, it can setup on its own with Bulk Up.

>>57897883
There's a tier for that - Anything Goes. The only "ban" is Endless Battle Clause making it illegal to stall a match out forever.

>>57897646
All these niggas would be bent over by scarf hidden power ice

>>57897938
I don't think there's any Pokemon that could OHKO Ting-Lu with HP Ice. Even ICE BEAM coming off of the strongest SpA in the game isn't 2HKO'ing the standard Ting-Lu.

>252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 205-242 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Heatran gets KWAB'd by it, too

>252 SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 82-98 (15.9 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO

New FSG banger video

>>57897944
>kw*b
Everything OHKOs it with HP Ice?! Nice.

>>57898024
>FSG banger
oxymoron

>>57898127
Redundant*

You know the guy on the other end is a kid when he says he hates Blissey.

>>57898272
I mean, when the opponent is allowed, by either tiering rules or your own mishaps, which is so much more the latter than the former, to switch it in and out on every special attacker you have, it gets very frustrating. unironically, you just gotta get better, and when you win shit and still hate blissey, then yeah i guess switching should be nerfed, by bringing back Pursuit as a typeless move.

I find it hilarious how surprisingly effective Camerupt of all things has been for me in ADV, you need a lot of really good prediction, but you can come in for free against Zapdos, Skarm and a few other mons and always threaten a lot of things pretty hard, sure Waters typically switch for free against it, but not a single Water wants to eat an Explosion.
I find it such a shame how it's another gen 3 Pokemon ruined by Gamefreak's dogshit decision of making so many SLOW. FRAIL. MIXED ATTACKERS. It could have been a solid bulky special attacker. Also, why does it not get Slack Off? It's a slow and lazy camel/cow and the whole joke also works from the sense it's a volcano that usually remains dormant. Same fucking story with Snorlax, it wouldn't be broken with a good recovery move and it thematically fits perfectly.

>There's fags on r/plebbitfisk and smogontards trying to convince people that Latias without soul dew would definitely not rape ADV OU
What kind of mental illness leads faggots to be this retarded?

>>57898272
I hate Blissey but I love Ferrothorn.

>>57898272
Blissey is incredibly fucking gay because of Natural Cure. If you could status Blissey to soften it up for the future, it wouldn't be too bad. But the only way to keep the fucker statused is to use Toxic Spikes.

Blissey is why I used Roserade on every team in Gen 4. Dumb fat fuck. I'm even madder than Clefable replaced it for precisely that reason. Clef ignores all status.

>>57898426
You can just run a wallbreaker like Heracross if you need to. Good status absorber or can go Scarf with Moxie to clean lategame.

>>57898627
Forget the Moxie part I'm retarded.

>>57898392
>hurr how come hoennmons aren't minmaxed and broken like johto's handful of non-shitmons
because Masuda's team wanted to make a balanced and good game that time around

clearly Camerupt is still usable despite its supposed flaws, you just need to be smart with your teambuilding to make it work; that's part of the fun of Pokemon, exercising your brain to make the seemingly impossible possible, which gen 3 ou more than other tier embodies

>>57898405
people who never high laddered gen3randbats

>>57898392
They could've just given it 20 more base HP and it would've been very solid defensively in Gen 3.

I can't believe base Heracross fell off in all three gens it was good in.

>>57899348
it's a top tier mon in gen3ou, the arguable premier wallbreaker

>>57899441
>it's a top tier mon in gen3ou
It's nowhere near as splashable as it used to be

>>57896498
gen 8 sprites were kinda cool, I'm not used to seeing those

>>57899348
Idk about gen 5 but in 6/7 it was pretty good with it's Mega forms it just takes building around so it's not as easy to fit on teams like other Megas but it's power is unreal.

>>57888163
I fucking hate snow cloak and sand veil as abilities. Wasted opportunities to give those Pokemon actually fun and useful weather abilities, instead you get more evasion which will either be fucking useless if you're a lucklet or make your opponent feel cheated out of a victory. Their original effect should be replaced with a defense/special defense boost, it's not much but it'd already feel more engaging

>>57900118
Haven't thought about it too much but they probably should just remove all evasion moves. Change Sand Veil et. al. to a flat damage reduction. Or something else. I just really don't like abilities like this that are useless most of the time and evasion makes gameplay to coin flippy.

>>57900157
I feel like evasion moves are not totally unfair, since you're actively spending a turn for them. There's a world where they don't feel like bullshit. Evasion abilities are just unredeemable imo

>>57899538
literally doesn't matter whatsoever

>>57900118
>Wasted opportunities to give those Pokemon actually fun and useful weather abilities
they are fun and useful weather abilities
Gen III Gligar and Cacturne and VGC Reg F Articuno

fanfic meta

>>57900347
No they aren't and they suck ass for the reasons he said. I guess it depends on how much you enjoy gambling on hax.

3 Jimothy Gen 3 OU ladder videos back to back with no retarded gimmicks? Are we in the Jimothy resurgence era?

What im about to say applies to doubles OU only.
Indeedee should never not be ubers
Maybe same for farigaraf, havent used it enough yet t say for sure.
But i firmly believe indeedee should be instant ubers for all doubles formats the instant any new gen comes out

>>57900347
yeah because suuuure waiting to see if an attack will do nothing is fun for anyone involved
at that point just go flip literal coins. you should have at least a few in your house somewhere.

>>57900591
You do not know what game you're playing and you also do not like said game.

>>57900600
He got big off using low tiers.

>>57900654
sincerely, Fag-Out user

>>57900795
Why is this your goto insult for everyone you disagree with? It's like you always think you're the smartest person in the room or something. Not a good way to approach open discussions assuming that's what you're here for.

>>57900731
>waiting to see if an attack will do nothing
it's called accuracy smomo

>>57900806
>Why is this your goto insult for everyone you disagree with?
because it's evidently true every time
>It's like you always think you're the smartest person in the room or something.
sadly I just might be; this thread is full of dimwits
>Not a good way to approach open discussions
"discussions" have already died, none of you say anything valuable on your own or in response to others

>>57900812
damn. so you have all the knowledge and we aren't worth it. truly your time is wasted here, please close the tab so our lowly selves dont continue contimating your otherworldly pokemon knowledge.....

>>57900799
I just prefer his regular ladder videos to the ones where he's trying to use sunny day vileplume or some shit not that those are bad. and he did a lot of shit to make his channel blow up, his main channel videos are actually good and not ai generated wiki summaries like FSG

Reminder that FSG is run by leffen apologists

>>57900822
jimothy's videos are just less pretentious asmr fsg videos

>>57900824
It's not a reminder because I'm not aware of it in the first place.

>>57900836
no

>>57900803
There are like a billion ways to outplay fake-out, removing all priority attacks from the game just by existing is cringe and gay, its the type of thing that feels like a mythical mon gimmick to me

>>57900414
This is what happens when you play a non-Smogon format. You get physically ill from how terrible they are.

False Swipe Gaming is good and I'm tired of pretending it's not.

>>57901189
thats fine but you have to acknowledge 99% of their vids are 1:1 the same shit with a different mon

>play children's game for 25+ years
>play it "competitively"
>never actually win anything
>never "place" or rank at any tournament
>still spend entire life dedicated to this
>10 year olds literally strolling past you
lmao bedwetting compshitters are a joke

>>57901189
t. 1300s

>>57901210
That's... the point. Their main bread and butter video is just pointing out how good Pokemon are in certain metas. There's only so many times you can talk about the landscape of Gen 4 NU before it all blends together, especially because it's not a meta that's being developed like all of the past gen OUs.

They're useful for SPLC where you want to build a competent team for a lower past-gen tier like Gen 4 NU, Gen 5 RU, Gen 6 PU, or etc.

>>57901247
I measured my success by getting high on my chosen ladders, inventing wildly successful teams for that metagame that'd never been seen before, and having the ability to see just who is actually good and why and who is not. It's about showing the little boy in you that you finally made it as a Pokemon master.

>>57901252
>There's only so many times you can talk about the landscape of Gen 4 NU
no there isn't, because what BKC and ol' dude do is just rattle off surface level shit even a 1200s level player could tell you; they never ever provide any depth or original insight into what they're talking about, it's literally wikipedia-reading tier designed to spoonfeed people who don't play the game, which results in lowest common denominator content mixed in with smogonist propaganda like "baton pass le bad"

>>57901272
Baton Pass is "le" bad though

>>57901320
it makes up an integral part of the most popular oldgen ou, dwarfing every other's playcount

>>57901252
but it's not good. it's just deadpan wiki reading.

>>57901349
Gen 4 OU would be way better than Gen 3 if they'd just ban Jirachi and Latias.

>>57901503
there is nothing fun to use in gen 4 ou with or without latias and jirachi; it's just nukes and walls with such a gameplay loop

>>57901583
Gen 4 is way more fun to use thanks to the phys/spec split. Arena Trap and Baton Pass being banned would make it even better if not for the Planeslut and Tanabataslut

>>57900118
I have a similar feeling towards Frisk and Swarm on different Pokemon, Frisk is literally fundamentally worthless, Swarm isn't bad necessarily, but so many Bug types could use better abilities and are stuck with this instead.
I have a massive soft spot for Gourgeist and Orbeetle, two shitmons that could have fun and thematic abilities and yet they're both stuck with Frisk for whatever reason, same with Gothitelle, but wannabe Gardevoir has Shadow Tag at least to compensate.

>>57901836
>Frisk
>Forewarn
>Stench
>Liquid Ooze
>Own Tempo
>Synchronize
>Pressure
>Illuminate
>Run Away
>Keen Eye
>Pickup
>Plus
>Minus
>Tangled Feet
>Rivalry
>Heavy Metal
>Light Metal
>Sand Force

>>57901977
>Run Away
Make it so it always switches out of trapping abilities

>>57901977
I'm probably coping but Sand Force feels like it's just 2 steps away from being the right ability on the right mon.

>>57901991
I thought Game Freak must have had buffed it already when I checked back in on the ability in Gen 9. It's insane that it doesn't already do this.

>>57901993
If you gave a Pokemon with Sand Force a signature move that deals Rock type damage and summons Sandstorm at the same time it could be good.

>>57901999
>Sandblast
>Rock, Special
>75 BP, 16 max PP, 100 Acc
>Sets Sandstorm upon use
>Given to Tyranitar, Flygon, and Gigalith, as well as a Gen 10 Sand Force user

>>57902001
leave it in the catalog buddy

>>57895817
Yes. I think it was 2015 or 14?

>>57901977
>Own Tempo
Preventing Taunt (and I think Intimidate as well now) is actually really valuable sometimes on defensive Pokemon, shame that combination is so rare.
>Run Away
Why has Gamefreak not buffed this yet to counter Shadow Tag and such?
>Synchronize
Can be really funny, was better when sleep spammers were a thing.
>Pressure
Are you kidding? Even outside stall cores, you can massively fuck over certain Pokemon with good use of Pressure, especially now that recovery moves have 8 PP.
>Illuminate
Gamefreak had the perfect opportunity to buff this ability to increase the damage of light moves like Dazzling Gleam or use it like a discount No Guard, but noooooooo, here's a Keen Eye clone fucker.
>Rivalry
All they had to do to buff this ability is remove the awful downside it has or add a funny effect of opposing Pokemon from the opposite sex doing less damage to yours also.
>Heavy Metal
Should give a flat defense buff, this ability is so shit dude, even on the few Pokemon that can actually use it.
>Light Metal
A small flat speed boost could be fun and useful, albeit even so this ability is still so shit.
>Sand Force
Not a terrible ability, it's just situational and not available on many Pokemon that would be able to abuse it. I ran a Sand + Trick Room team in gen 7 UU that wrecked ass with Mega Steelix.

>>57895770
>>57895817
>>57902023
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-oras-ou-suspect-process-round-3-ghosts-giratina-o-remains-in-ubers-check-the-op.3533937/

Note that they did later edit the OP to make it more clear that it was an April Fools joke, BUT the test really did happen, and the results were that it would have been fine in OP. They just didn't want to do it because it would look really bad if a joke test turned out to be better for the meta.

>>57902040
No, I think Giratina-O would've proven to be too much for OU overtime. It's one of the strongest Pokemon in Ubers in Gen 6 and 7. It just isn't obviously broken like most other Ubers. It's more of a broken strong Gluemon.

Smogon isn't against dropping Ubers to OU. Darkrai, Deoxys, and Genesect have been tested multiple times. Kyurem-B and Zamazenta dropped to OU as well. Giratina isn't beyond the pail, it's just sleeper OP.

>>57902027
>>57901977
Just fuck my shit up fami

>>57902056
Sleeper OP is also how I'd describe Lugia for everyone who thinks it should drop down to OU.

>>57902001
Healthy | Hospitalized

>>57902064
Duraludon needed that evo like yesterday.

>>57902064
>hyped up in lore as being Tyranitar's rival
>two garbage weight-altering abilities
>hidden ability isn't much better
>stat spread, while decent, isn't enough to save it
Duraludon was seriously doomed from the start. Archaludon really redeemed the line by having better abilities and (admittedly) a heinously OP signature move.

>>57902102
Stalwart is actually worse since it does literally nothing in Singles.

New thread where?

>>57902198
let it die. it's already regressed too much

>>57902064
I genuinely do not understand what they were thinking with Duraludon, design wise it's just ugly, not even in a monstrous way, just a very retarded way. It's stats are not that bad, but it's movepool is atrociously bad. It's abilities are all useless. It gets hyped up as Tyranitar's rival when Aggron already exists and would thematically fit perfectly as an opponent given it's very protective of it's territory and the nature surrounding it, while Tyranitar is typically ravenous and destructive. It's clear they designed it with Gigantamax in mind, and it hurts it that the cool glass-like accents aren't present in it's base form.

>>57902487
I wouldn't be surprised if they completely threw out that whole "rival to tyranitar" thing when they made Archaludon.

>>57893862
>>57893861

>>57902487
>>57902548
>Aggron is pushed as Tytanitar's counterpart in gen 6 and both get megas
>everyone loved the idea because Aggron was already popular to begin with
>thematically perfect since Aggron takes care of its mountain home, which makes it the antithesis of Tyranitar's destructive rampages
>Game Freak goes full retard by forcing an ugly new pokemon as Tyranitar's new rival
>does everything Aggron did, but worse, but gets away with it because it the coveted dragon typing
All they had to do was bump Aggron's BST up to 600.