What do you think Orre is like in 2025? In the few years between Colosseum and XD they managed to get spots where wild pokemon appeared. Do you think wild pokemon are common in the region now?

>>57936648 (OP)
They're probably like subAlola tier but with better battlers, the region is still in a rough shape but in time it will even have it's own league

>>57936648 (OP)
I never understood why the Orre region initially never had any native wild pokemon, nowadays there are a lot of pokemon that thrive in desert regions. There’s gotta be SOMETHING in at least like, agate village.

>>57936648 (OP)
Sequel Idea: Ardos, the third strongest member of Cipher who is still devoted to its cause gains a near cult leader following amongst the rest of the remaining members. Looking to him for guidance on how to rebuild the organization, they retreat deep into the mountains (the unexplored green area in the top left of the map) and begin conducting all sorts of blasphemous research in stark contrast to their sci-fi mad scientist style in the two previous games. Get ready for even more dangerous shadow mons and psyops that may hit too close to home.

Also, pic related has been turned into a colosseum just like with Realgam Tower.

>>57936666
The entire region got scalped.

>>57936666
Satan is right, repopulate this region with giant scorpions, sand sharks, tornado anacondas, crab-infested hippos, underground crocodiles, armored vultures, poisonous fire lizards, dog-sized antlions, soul-sucking tumbleweeds, living sand, giant worms, SPECIES MUST FLOW!!!!

>>57936666
It's not that it NEVER had wild pokemon, it's that all the mining and exploitation of the environment drove them away in the past and the high crime made it too risky for them to try to return. Wes and Rui taking down Cipher the first time was the start of the region getting cleaned up, and 5 years later in XD the wild pokemon that dare to venture into Orre are just starting to find places suitable to live and return in significant numbers.

>>57936747
Shai-Hulud

>>57936790
It reminds me of the real-life case of the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone, thanks to which the ecosystem is beginning to heal.

Who would be the keystone species in Orre? My money on Cyclizar.

>>57936820
Yep! In this case human activity poisoned the land leaving only those hardy enough to survive so they're rarity creates a poaching problem that drives those away too, rather than humans killing off the predators and their absence creating an oversized prey population that takes up too many resource so the ecosystem gets less diverse, but very similar concept. Even after there's places they COULD live in it takes a long time for them to start venturing back or require humans to reintroduce them. In the real world you'd always have urban wildlife like squirrels and raccoons that adapt to human presence and domestic animals that escaped or were released and became feral like cats and pigeons that will survive wherever humans settle, but clearly Orre was meant to be an extreme case where (almost) none remained.

As for keystone species:
Cyclizar are found in the grass and by the river so I could definitely see them being one for the oasis! According to the pokedex it has been giving humans rides for millennia and likes its passenger's body heat, there's no reason it couldn't do so for other pokemon and it's likely cold-blooded like real reptiles. By riding cyclizar across the desert less hardy species could find the resources they need over a wider range without expending their own energy. Passengers could repay with protection while travelling, sharing the food they find at the destination, and their body heat during cold desert nights.

Aggron would be a good fit for the mountains given its dex entries about defending and restoring its territory, and its prior stages digging up iron ore for food would leave tunnels for other pokemon to live in. In the desert itself I could see maractus's seeds feeding not only birds as its dex entries state but also small rodents which would serve as prey for things like drapion or krookodile. And of course, mandibuzz to patrol from the skies and eat whatever dropped dead to prevent disease outbreaks.

>>57937007
>and domestic animals that escaped or were released and became feral like cats

>>57937363
Gen 4 pokemon being teased in spin-off games blew my mind as a kid.

>>57936666
wild pokemon in orre were basically hunted down for sport and for profit to the brink of extinction

>>57936648 (OP)
We'll never go back to orre as its a non canon, non gamefreak game. But my based interpretation would be that in the 20+ years since we've been there orre has become a more verdant oasis. But the big twist is that the funding and infrastructure is coming from seemingly defunct criminal organizations from other regions. So orre is kinda like the Australia of pokemon. And you may find familiar faces from team rocket, magma, aqua, plasma etc living and thriving there as "law abiding" citizens. There would be a new area north of mount battle loosley based on the vegas strip that would be sort of like a battle frontier.

>>57939041
And don't forget the booze!

>>57939044
I like this artist's updated Orre version, but don't get into his plot for a third game, it's beyond cringeworthy.

>>57939044
a region full of old evil team members just setting up shop to hide out sounds cool

>>57939044
>loosley based on the vegas strip
What you don't know is that years ago a "Mysterious" tycoon bought the remnants of Citadark Isle for a low price.

>>57939773
Now, Orre's economy relies on foreign tourists who come to try their luck or enjoy watching battles with high-tech stadiums modified.

Entrance is said to cost $1,000, and for each battle won, the winner takes all and the loser gets nothing. There's even talk of private leagues where prizes reach ten figures, with illegal conditions such as the use of Alphas, Mega Evolution Stones, Dynamax Bands, Teracrystals, and other more disturbing items. Some people have emerged as millionaires, and others have even lost their Pokémon. The problem is, trainers never know when to quit.

It is rumored that the coliseum leaders are a powerful mafia and they decide the fate of anyone who enters their casino city.

>>57939806
I always knew Mysterial was hiding more than he let on.
Also, damn: Kruger would be killer for a Nintendo/Gamefreak Yakuza spin off. I wonder if he knows the black dude from Pasio, I forgot his name.

>>57939806
We're never getting a badass, Hunter X Hunter-like Pokémon adaptation, are we?

>>57939907
Heavens Arena or Greed Island?

Although it also has a touch of York New due to mafia families

>>57939907
Imagine

>>57939927
I'd argue that the mons themselves have the potential to veer into Chimera Ant territory if Gamefreak was feeling particularly daring on that day.

>>57936732
really surprised there hasn't been a fangame that's a sequel to XD yet.

>>57939948
>Chimera Ant territory

>>57940785
It's not much, but it's a funny demake sequel with a lot of soul.

>>57940956
i'll try it out thx

>>57941304
>This project has a release available. The full version is still a work in progress.

oh nvm then.......

think he is still grooving after 20 years?

>>57936666
The reason why it doesn't have your typical wild pokemon is because this isn't your typical pokemon region - it has an entirely different story line and goal. You aren't filling up a dex here.

>>57936666
Back in the day pokemon were recently discovered by professor oak. That's been retconned.

>>57936732
To be fair there's shadow mewtwo in GO...

>>57936747
Granted, but is with the PLA formula and they're more agressive

>>57942471
Rodrigo! Salasa!

>>57936666
Mechanically, there are no wild Pokémon in Colosseum due to limitations in programming large wild stages/routes with random encounters. Orre was formed due to software limitations, which is the reason for Pokémon theft, Pokémon exported from other regions, post-apocalyptic technology, Shadow Pokémon, motorcycle travel, the lack of a league, and other details that make the region unique.

Lorewise: In the sequel, thanks to the decrease in criminal activity, the mayor of Pyrite Town was able to dedicate himself to searching for the region's wildlife sanctuaries, including an Oasis, a Cave, and a Canyon. The real-life equivalent was like when explorers discovered the fish of the Sonoran Desert or similar, fauna adapted to extreme conditions in very limited areas.

I wish Ho-Oh had gotten a cool Shadow form like Lugia did.

>>57944689
"shadows" in GO ≠ shadow pokemon in Orre.
The nips use different terms for them, so they arent the same.

>>57946051
happy?

>>57944784
Avocado! Ahahaha!

>>57946217
This is actually pretty neat!

>>57939907
Didn't /vp/ shit on this idea already though?
That one OC region where everything is all dark and serious. I can only remember that the Fairy type elite 4 member was insane (well they all were but her especially so) and the Poison type was some sort of drug mafia kingpin.

>>57946192
>purple aura
>red eyes
>able to be purified
I think nips are just retarded because Go is a western game and they are too autistic to localize the name

>>57946620
Possibly, but it fits better with the early tcg's dark and light pokemon, in colo/xd they were only returning to normal not gaining an extra power boost after purification as the exp was just stored until then.

>>57946784
>not gaining an extra power boost after purification as the exp was just stored until then.
in pokemon go, purifying shadow mons vastly increases their level (doesn't raise the cap though) so it's pretty much just giving it a lot of free power ups; which would be the equivalent of stored EXP being applied after purifying in colo/xd
>extra power boost after purification
arguably this applies more to colo/xd than go if we're talking about enhanced movepools since some of the shadow mon unique moves can make or break mons' viability, whereas in go the only special move you get from purification is return which is only really worth keeping on normal types

>>57946797
I meant the 2 point IV boost per stat and the reduced cost to level up in go, the colo/dx shadow pokemon don't get better stats upon purification. They also can't evolve while still shadow pokemon in colo/xd, but in go and the tcg they can. The special moves are no different than gift pokemon from any other game having special moves, it's not inherent to them being purified pokemon.

>>57939907
Lore/headcanon time.

Cipher is without a doubt the most heinous evil team. Despite Shadow Pokémon not being that difficult to handle in gameplay, the story drills it into your head that they've been reduced to mindless killing machines. It's easy to gloss over this and see it as corny given that again, nothing graphic is shown since it's a kids game but if you take a few minutes to truly observe once you get to Cipher Key Lair, you should realize by then that the process of turning them that way wouldn't be out of place in some darker anime aimed at teens. For fuck's sake, there are two npc interactions in there that are eerily reminiscent of how people who wake up every day and commit atrocities as their 9-5 job cope with it. One woman talks about it nonchalantly, having to put on makeup for what she treats as a banal office job and some construction worker talks about how exhausting it is to have to mindrape Pokémon all night as a job. Hell, what purpose do these machines serve and what exactly is the purple substance you see forming a whirlpool outside?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlSG8-MMH-4&list=RDVlSG8-MMH-4&start_radio=1

Am I onto something here or you all just going to post the Spongebob rollercoaster meme at me?

>>57947409
You're definitely on to something. Don't forget about hyper mode causing shadow pokemon to occasionally attack you, your other pokemon, itself, or the other trainer instead of its intended target, use a different move, or switch out. Just because we as players who've finished the game before and dissected the mechanics in the process know calling them for the extra chunk off the heart gauge or using shadow rush for a higher crit chance is the mechanically optimal thing to do doesn't negate the fact that they're as out of control as the dialogue claims within the limits of the game's scope. If these were modern games with following pokemon I'd bet letting a shadow pokemon walk around loose would have it misbehaving and running off, trying to attack npcs who'd be running away and getting mad at you for it. It's off screen but there's the imposter with the shadow togetic that was going around attacking people in colosseum's post-game, Dash will refuse to talk to you in outrage that you'd do something so horrible if you take credit for the attacks even after seeing you be a hero through the whole game. They also explicitly, repeatedly say the shadow pokemon have their hearts ARTIFICIALLY closed and there's a whole ton of research going into how to do that, so clearly it's more than just mistreating them on purpose for that max power frustration. The door in the lab requires a combo of pokemon you learn from analysing dna samples, if those are laying around along with the equipment to work with them then clearly there's some genetic testing or alteration involved.

The whole shadow pokemon thing is supposed to be legitimately fucked up, it's just a kid's game like you said so they can't portray it as this bloody, violent tragedy.

>>57947510
Thank you for sharing those additional points that add further credence to the theory! What jumps out at me the most is

>It's off screen but there's the imposter with the shadow togetic that was going around attacking people
It's already bad enough when naturally aggressive and highly dangerous mons or legendaries get turned but it's especially sickening when peaceful ones like Togetic and Chansey are reduced to these soulless monsters. It makes Hordel from GoD going awol and pleading for you to heal his Togepi all the more tragic. People have always said that the 3D games were dark but what makes it so dark is that the most horrific events weren't committed by powerful supernatural forces but by people. Makes the idea of Cipher getting a hold of Arceus into a full-on cosmic horror whether they manage to corrupt it or if the blasphemous act would tempt the actual Arceus and not its avatar form we're accustomed with to intervene.

>>57936790
Yeah, that makes more sense. Arid and unfavorable environment wouldn't be a reason there aren't pokemon but sudden and massive habitat destruction would be.

The orre we see is probably from the interim where pioneer species haven't yet recolonized.

>>57947539
>it's especially sickening when peaceful ones like Togetic and Chansey are reduced to these soulless monsters.
I agree. It's not enough for Cipher to have offensively powerful pokemon they can terrorize citizens with, they want to see healers and supports have their innocence corrupted even when that serves no practical purpose. The strength boost doesn't make softboiled heal more damage or increase the buffs to teammates from status moves, in-universe it'd be more effective to use their sympathetic natures to get them to feel sorry for the shadow pokemon and try extra hard to help, or at least save the resources required to make shadow pokemon for something that could take advantage of the state like gyarados. But no, they want to cause pain for their own amusement or just as an experiment to see if they can and what would happen.

>what makes it so dark is that the most horrific events weren't committed by powerful supernatural forces but by people.
Yeah in main series the big threat is titans of nature clashing and everyone getting caught in the crossfire or a few petty people struggling for power through those forces of nature, you're trying to deescalate and prevent trouble, the only time it gets serious is near the end. These games are the first time an evil team had gone the route of building weapons and had effectively succeeded at the start - Cipher had political or total control of 3 towns and were in the process of taking over Mt. Battle before you put a stop to it, they already had the money to build Realgam Tower and that was going to rake in more money, they had effective recruiting methods, leveraged the resources of another criminal organization to get pokemon for experimentation, and the shadow pokemon were strong enough that few regular pokemon could stand up to them. And that's just colosseum, xd had Phenac's entire population held hostage and replaced and that was after things had been cleaned up and Orre was becoming a safe region.

>>57947510
>Legends Orre like game has following pokemon
>Shadow pokemon purify faster if you walk with them, but they may randomly just decide to attack you while out in the wild

>>57947409
>Despite Shadow Pokémon not being that difficult to handle in gameplay, the story drills it into your head that they've been reduced to mindless killing machines.
I like to imagine them being like the Indoraptor and that stupid laser targeting system, maybe that's how the glove really worked.

>>57948465
I think the more mechanically interesting thing is they would randomly aggro to basically anything. This shows in lore that they're aggressive, but mechanically being in battle helps purify them so it serves both a story and gameplay purpose.

>>57936732
>Sequel Idea:
Before a sequel, they should just remake Colosseum. Basically start with Wes's escape, Rui's rescue, teaming up with Duking, and then starting fresh.

>>57948493
NTA, but I'd prefer a Legends set during the conquest of the Wild West, showing what the region was like in its glory, filled with bouffant grasslands and prairies. (In real life, bison and wolves are the true creators of the prairies, carrying seeds, providing nutrients with their manure, and the wolves controlling the population to prevent deforestation)

There would be several warring factions: the Galarian pilgrims, the Nueva Paldea army to the south, the people of Kanto landing in the west, and the native people in different tribes. Not to mention the bandits, who would be a combination of everything.

Obviously it is a fictional version full of anachronisms and historical inaccuracies, for example an Aztec pyramid where they worship a Koraidon that appeared there, due to reasons, using the people of Kanto as builders of the railways because there is no Chinese region.

The point is that we will be at the beginning of the conflict and how human ambition ruined the region.

>>57948561
>In real life, bison and wolves are the true creators of the prairies
Oh and prairie dogs, one of the most important species in that ecosystem

>>57948396
Team Rocket started something like that with the radio tower and the lake of rage. I wouldn't be surprised if the two phenomena had some similar basis.

>>57948719
This guy from the fourth movie was part of Team Rocket too and he pretty much introduced Shadow Pokémon to the anime even if official canon claims that Shadow and Dark Pokémon are different. The Dark Balls could even be an alternate method used by Cipher.

>>57948719
True. Also mewtwo, but it fucked off to go live in a cave so it wasn't much of a threat, more of a mystery. Team Rocket were reasonably competent villains, they just never got too many of their plans off the ground before Red/Gold put a stop to it.
>>57949095
Completely forgot about this guy! I should rewatch that sometime.