What went so wrong?

>>57952111 (OP)
>ポケットモンスター

Nips use the term アニポケ as the name for the series.

>>57952111 (OP)
Same thing that killed XY&Z.
Some Higher-up pushing their OC to wish fulfilment out of them,

>>57952119
That is the informal term, most used among fans, when it comes to legal terms TV Tokyo generally uses the formal name

>>57952169
Sometimes I feel like the Anime team thinks they can do better than the Game team, and the Anime team always ends up failing with boring and ugly OCs.

>>57952169
I could have tolerated just one OC showing their adventure in Paldea, but literally, that series is focused on OCs: protagonist OCs, friends of the protagonist OCs, co-prototypes for the second season OCs, villain OCs. The plot revolves around OCs from the past, leaving canon characters like Nemona, Carmine, and Arven as background decoration or being used to make the OCs look better.

This is ReBurst, but in anime. If you really wanted to tell a story with your OCs, make a standalone series, don't get hooked on another franchise.

lack of Ash

nothing, ash is ded never coming back

>>57952111 (OP)
TPC deluded themselves into thinking that this anime would succeed without Ash, they’ve went so far with him that they kind of dug their own hole. People are more willing to give new protagonists a chance if they come frequently, not abruptly after nearly 3 decades with the same one.

Now, as for the show itself? The story goes nowhere, treats its audience like toddlers (yeah, I know, it’s a kid’s anime), and is boring overall. The characters are the worst offenders, as the majority of them are glorified OCs, and we’re supposed to pretend said OCs are worth a damn. Nobody cares about any writer’s self-insert, the ratings prove that.

>>57952184
>informal
It's literally the term the official social media accounts tell fans to use on social media, you turbo retard. It's also the term the official accounts themselves use, and the hashtag officially associated with the series.
https://x.com/anipoke_pr

No shit these Parrot Analytics faggots aren't finding much engagement for the series when they don't even know what it's called.

I watched the first 20 or so episodes. It was generally boring and safe. Kids want to watch something with a bit of edge.

>>57952111 (OP)
Additionally, this is nitpicky and doesn’t have anything to do with the ratings, but the show goes overdrive with the shilling. Pikachu was logical as a shillmon, it’s the face of the franchise, but TPC is putting extra effort into shilling Meowscarada, as well as Lucario and its Mega form yet again for the former? No one but /vp/‘s most annoying furfags likes this thing, it’s quite literally a mascot character. The latter? We’ve seen this trick with Ash’s last season.

>>57952246
Yeah, no, Japanese kids are ecstatic about safe edgy shows like Bluey, as is every kid on the planet. It has nothing to do with edge, or lack thereof. This season of Pokemon is just plain not interesting.

>>57952246
>kids
you mean manchildren kids doesnt give a shit to pokemon , this franchise is only for manchildren

>>57952263
>safe edgy
safe unedgy*

liko isnt compelling

liko is staying for another 20 years!!!

likopedos will hang themselves when the anime inevitably gets cancelled

>>57952222
I don’t think we’ve ever seen such blatant disrespect toward the ingame characters as we have in Horizons.
>Kieran
Oh, people like this emotionally complex rival? Let’s give him a two-second cameo and make sure he barely speaks. Actually, can we just use AI to voice him and save on the budget?
>Carmine
You know what would be fun? Turning her into a punchline in a goofy flashback to make our OC look better!
>Nemona
Let her lose to our OC thanks to a convenient little rain shower,No one can beat our OC cleanly,and that will make his eventual victory feel more earned. Also, she’s the champion? Eh, just give her two Pokemon and move on.
>Arven
Girls love Arven and he’s got deep emotional baggage with his parents? Eh, sounds like the perfect candidate for a blink-and-you-miss-it cameo.
>Penny
Oh, she led the antagonist team in SV?, uh... that sounds like something important Perfect, put her in the background, LMAO!

>>57952268
First, learn proper english sentence construction, trying to read broken mangled spanglish is tiresome. Secondly Paco the Taco, if the franchise was "only for manchildren" ALL you little kiddy bastards would be PERFECTLY happy with what it's doing, the fact none of yis are prove kids are still the core market. Manchildren been crying the series don't care for them since the genwunners suddenly realised Gen 3 wasn't going to be Kanto part 3, you retards aren't actually saying anything that spastics have been squealing for years. Because they were to thick to understand a kid's series wanted to remain a kid's series.

>>57952300
>I don’t think we’ve ever seen such blatant disrespect toward the ingame characters as we have in Horizons.
All the Gen 1 characters, given they were all creations of a tranny who didn't comprehend the IP it was supposed to be based off.

>>57952263
>>57952269
Kids obsess over edgy shit like poppy playtime. Bluey is a show only watched by preschoolers and parents.

>>57952263
You are proof poketurds are the only group of people on earth that likes their franchise staying stale, sterile and soulless because "It's fur KiDz!1!!" Just because something is for children doesn't mean it has to be dogshit or talk down to them like drooling morons.

>>57952323
pokemon is not pokemon without ash, go back

>>57952316
>Kids obsess over edgy shit like poppy playtime.
Sounds like these kids have terrible parents if they can just watch anything related to child-experimentation horror games without problems

>>57952330
He's self-confessing her underaged nature, teens ARE still kids after all.

>>57952312
>All the Gen 1 characters
Are actually better than their game counterpart. In fact most Gen 01 gym leaders did not have much personality, they are just roadblock for player to overcome. The Original anime took each character's concept and made them better.

>>57952323
are you braindead? Bluey is for kids, and yet, is insanely popular worldwide, and it’s watched by kids and adults alike. I never even watched the series, but I know plenty of people ranging from kids to teens to adults who watch the show occasionally or religiously. from what I can tell, the show was made with parents in mind, hence why grownups like it.

compare that to this season of Pokemon. you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who actually watches the thing enough to know what’s going on, let alone like it. this show insults the viewer’s intelligence by treating them like kids and trying to convince us these OCs are supposed to be likable.

>>57952343
The tranny's dead anon. He also didn't own the property, she won't suck your dick for wanking her off.

>>57952111 (OP)
>>57950086
Are you retards seriously gonna spam those same threads over and over again until they get the unova treatment and then you wonder why they get nuked or archived?
Fucking dumbasses

>>57952329
When did I mention ash? Even I agree the ashnime is better than whatever the fuck is going on with the nu-anime

>>57952343
yeah, this. Gen 1 anime and Gen 9 anime can’t be compared.

for starters, the Gen 1 anime at least still bothers to follow the general plot of Red/Blue. the Gen 1 games also had a lot of gaps that could be filled by the anime, as to be expected of a then-new and suddenly popular IP. as for Gen 9, the Pokemon franchise has long gotten its identity set in stone, and the story has went from a boy beating gym leaders who say two lines of dialogue to full-on legitimate stories. the anime neglecting game characters is a serious blunder.

>>57952373
paldea deserve this, dogshit games with ugly troon characters too

>>57952312
You're blind, the anime Sabrina is bad ass. She was so OP that the only way to beat her was literally not to fight her.

Blaine was also another great confrontation; to this day, everyone remembers MAGMAR's entry.

Misty and Brock, not to mention all the depth the anime gave them. The only leader who was truly overshadowed was Koga, but the rest had memorable episodes.

In fact, GF liked a lot of crazy things from the anime so much that they made them canon in later games, such as tropical forms, gigantism, type variation, or characters like Misty's sisters.

>>57952344
This is the kind of shit Pokémon competes with child. I'll be honest, I DID watch B: TAS, I was 9 years old when it started running in my country (year after series debut), but haven't watched any of this other shit, while I did watch OS, I also knew I was punching down HEAVILY to watch it (i was recording it while i was in my final years of secondary school, due to airtimes being keyed to primary school children's school closing times). I haven't watched it since growing out my "i'll watch kid's cartoons to doss and avoid homework" phase, much like a friend commended me on not knowing what the fuck a ben 10 was when we went out to celebrate my 24th brithday. Some kid's programs transcend their purview to become accepted worldwide. that was never pokémon though, it was always folded into the demographic of "kid-toy related advertising" programming like GI Joe and Visionaries.

>>57952379
Sorry kid, I was 17 when I watched it, she wasn't a "badass" because I didn't have my first wet dream to the thoughts of being turned into her dolly (my first wet dream was April O'Neil from the late 80's turtles TV show, only one I had eyes for back then was Lorelei). That it was yet ANOTHER gym battle where Ash didn't actually win by combat but by default just added fresh diarrhoea sauce to the shitcake.

>>57952379
And let's not forget the most important thing that anime gave us

japan cant make good children anime anymore, ygo anime canceled how shit last season was, Beyblade X started well and now it's going to shit

>>57952397
boruto fucking garbage

>>57952394
Man, I love these three, the Ashnime wasn't perfect, but at least it had mostly good OCs.

>>57952402
yeah i think this is another reason floprizons is shit lack of trio rocket

>>57952379
And it also flew in the face of her game presentation, where she was more invested in developing her psychic powers rather than her pokémon's ("I dislike fighting, but if you wish, I will show you my powers"), but takes her defeat with grace and humility ("I'm shocked! But, a loss is a loss. I admit I didn't work hard enough to win! You earned the MarshBadge!"). But shudo hated women like most trannies, thus couldn't stomach writing any in his series.

>>57952397
>Beyblade X started well and now it's going to shit
I lost track of Beyblade when they introduced a fifth character with a bootleg dragon and changed the designs to something more cartoonish, how trashy is the new BB?

>>57952368
That's the case example of stupidity, anon.
>My thread got the boot by a mod?
>Gonna repost it again
That shit got solar beam threads banned because they are nothing more than Honeypot for retardation.

>>57952408
but muh sango

>>57952419
I only know that girl from porn and because of the Japanese headcanon, she's the reincarnation of Pikachu and she tirelessly seeks out Ash to rape him.

>>57952419
nta, but honestly Sango looks like a try hard character, there are better anime where the sassy girl trope is executed better.

funny how the anime is still the less sucessfull part of the franchise lol even the tcg is bigger

>>57952419
stop shilling japanese names, even if it’s one extremely annoying autist buttons about “coral”.

>>57952368
Was surprised to see the same image again. Those morons are gonna get Horizons the Unova treatment on this board at this rate and then they will complain and scratch their brains their brains off why their spam gets nuked.

>>57952438
>buttons
buttmad*

>>57952440
and for nothing because horzions is going to continue, ash is not coming back, tpc doesnt give a shit

>>57952438
Dude, I've never seen that shit in Japanese, much less dub. I only know its name because of the first threads posted here in 2023 or 24 I don't remember well honestly

>>57952368
Simply marvelous. I don't like the anime but the detractors of this one are peak obsessed.

>>57952368
>>57952440
>>Janny save me my tastes are being cyberbullied!
Pathetic, you know, there’s a site that begins with an "R" and ends in "eddit", sounds like it was built just for folks like you. Give it a shot, champs ;)

they want make the anime so mature and serious no wonder is flopping lol same is happening to the new duel master anime and happened to yokai watch shadowside

>>57952466
The ashnime was had way more edgy moments and episodes than horizons though.

>>57952300
This reminds me of the sequel to Pacific Rim, they focus so much on telling us why the new characters are better than the pilots from the first film, that they forget to show why they are better or in the worst case they don't justify it, like the girl who built a Jeager with only garbage, when in the previous film they explained that its creation was so expensive and difficult that they had canceled its production worldwide, the last one being the British-Australian model.

>>57952368
Are you new here? Anything is being used to get a rise out of others until either the target one no longer bites or they get it flagged.
Posts centering around the usage of the word "woke" got nuked for a year straight once as an example so anons immediately jumped onto using DEI as a substitute until they got it banned too. They drive terms into the grounds and then complain about it's deletion, out of context mind you.

>>57952432
Cringe ship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC3IC2GrPUw

I rather prefer if the anime pulled an "Yaiba" where Ash has to collect 8 orb from 8 tribe leaders that leads to a legendary pokemon to stop his new rival who got possessed by the spirit of an evil king after the said rival lost to Ash in a battle and went to a forbidden ruin to get stronger. Oh and the series should have a Tsundere with a direct crush on Ash as the lead girl that accompany him alongside other new companions that started off as enemy but becomes allies. .

>>57952462
NTA, but I've always been curious how Reddit works? Everyone there behaves weirdly, as if they're in front of a teacher or their boss. Not even the YouTube comments are that Ned Flanders-esque.

>>57952368
It's baffling how retarded they can get in their crusade of ragebaiting.

>>57952526
That's because reddit is filled with self-righteous, virtue signaling communists

>>57952409
Literally no one during gen 1 bothered to get Sabrina’s personality the same as the games whether it was the anime or the numerous manga, they all took their own spin on the character with the only consistent parts being that she had psychic powers and was a gym leader.

>>57952526
It's a reflection of the upvote system and their moderation. Both encourage the kind of behaviour you describe

>>57952495
Ashnime's edgy moments were handled in a lighthearted way to the point you don't realize how edgy they were until you reach 20 or 30.
For example : Ash in the first episode got electrocuted multiple time, blown away by a small tornedo, attacked by a flock of Spearow that nearly packed Pikachu to death, almost got eaten by a Gyarados, slapped in the face by a girl and the Pokemon Center got hijacked by three goon after he reached there. Pokemon Horizon feels like a Baby show that trying too hard to be edgy & serious compared to the first two original series episode.

>>57952394
I think it's funny how Jessie and James have giant heads but Meowth's head is still the normal size (also in this screenshot he looks absolutely tiny compared to them)

You simply can't replace a character like Ash, in the West Marvel has been trying to replace their original heroes with cringe slop Just like TPC.

>>57952884
But Iron Heart is a capable, intelligent, and DEI heroine, everyone should love her!

Why aren't you giving me your woke money?

I seriously doubt any normal person likes Horizons. It has inherited almost every negative quality of the Ashime while also having no history to pull from and not really having exciting character dynamics, rivalries, and without enough of a focus on competitive battling to string the viewer along.

What it instead provides are boring "hmm, I wonder what will happen" mysteries that lack genuine intrigue. You can be predictable but satisfying, or unpredictable, but Horizons is predictable AND unsatisfying. These exposition heavy plots never go anywhere that isn't heavily telegraphed and the characters lack intrinsic motivation, fear of failure, and social pressure to succeed at their goals.

It's very much a failure on all fronts.

I'm pretty sure kids don't sit down at a tv anymore and go "oh it's x o'clock, *media franchise* is on tv now!!" and haven't for like 15 years.

>>57953378
Those stats include streaming.

>>57952184
Um...is Ash about to punt Pikachu..?

>>57953443
They don't, it's exclusively live TV views. That's why they've gone so extremely radically down over the years.

>>57953378
Sure, but you should remember that people in Japan still tune in to watch shows like One Piece on TV every week, as well as their own J-Dramas and live-broadcast variety shows.

Having poor ratings on live viewing is still a bad thing, especially in domestic markets, and in spite of the popularity of streaming.

>>57953523
>Sure, but you should remember that people in Japan still tune in to watch shows like One Piece on TV every week
They don't, which is why One Piece's ratings have dropped just as hard as Pokemon's over the same period.

>>57953523
The last episode of One Piece got a rating of 2.4, which is lower than every Pokemon episode up until like mid SM.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2025-06-28/japanese-animation-tv-ranking-june-16-22/.226077

>>57953562
Bull fucking shit, you are such an idiot if you think One Piece's ratings have declined at the same scale as Pokémon. Pokémon's continual (and recently, catastrophic) decline in ratings has directly resulted in the shows budget getting massively reduced, with most episodes being (cheaply) outsourced now to non-Japanese studios.

Meanwhile One Piece's production budget has only gone up up up, with most episodes receiving crazy high quality cuts. Comparing Pokémon's ratings to One Piece is crazy, but you'd have to be a Horizons fan to make such a comparison.

>>57953587
Nigga >>57953583

>>57953562
No it fucking hasn’t, who is telling you that?
>>57953583
Because the latest “episode” is a recap episode in the middle of a popular character’s flashback. Try the few episodes before it, and tune in again tonight to see the ratings for the episode that will air today. You’ll see what I mean.

>>57953583
Oh, and here's from 10 years ago, June 2015
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-06-25/japan-animation-tv-ranking-june-8-14/.89495

One Piece got a rating of 8.9
Pokemon XY (the show fags are always insisting totally got super terrible ratings until SM-sama saved the franchise) got a rating of 4.8

>>57953600
>Because the latest “episode” is a recap episode in the middle of a popular character’s flashback. Try the few episodes before it,
Ok. Here's from mid May.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2025-05-24/japanese-animation-tv-ranking-may-12-18/.224722

One Piece got a rating of 2.9.

>>57953611
that’s also a recap episode, you gigantic moron.
try episode 1129 if you’re going to be a facetious cherry-picking bastard about it.

>>57953604
Yokai watch mogged xy in ratings lmao xy flopping one of reason they stopped give budget to the tranime

>>57953619
>cherry-picking

May 18: 2.9
May 25: 2.7
June 1: 2.9
June 15: 2.7
June 22: 2.4

Were these all recap episodes? :^)

>>57953628
Yokai Watch literally rated lower than Pokemon XY in that list.

Horizons is staying!!! Ashkek lost!!!

>>57953619
Nigga that IS episode 1129

>>57953611
>cherry picks two recap episodes to try and draw comparisons between One Piece and anipoke ratings
This is pathetic, beyond pathetic. Likofags, you can like Liko's show all you want, but you cannot alter the very real reality that the show has hit rock bottom ratings due to a lack of interest from any significant audience.

>>57953642
>the whore is afraid
Good

>>57953646
>>57953645
lol

>>57953628
XY, SM, and the first half of JN have outstanding production quality (relative to previous pokémon series anyway), and the first 40 episodes of Horizons also looked quite good a lot of the time, but never has a single Pokémon series experienced such a drastic downgrade in quality than Horizons. The obvious culprit is Horizons' own poor ratings. Not XY, not the fact that TV isn't as big as it used to be.. the failure and consequences are all due to Horizons itself.

I hope the anime is cancelled like ygo they cancelled the movies , the anime is the less successful part of the franchise even the tcg is bigger

>>57953675
I just want them to go back to the drawing board and make something more soulful. No Ash, decent budget, no gay mysteries or evil teams.. something that feels personal and like someone wants it to exist. There's room for a kino Pokémon anime but it ain't Horizons

So basically:

Parrot Analytics is a dodgy website that picks social media engagement without distinguishing between positive and negative engagement, and more used as a manipulation tool than anything. Only people listening them are hollywood suits that produce ragebait slop

This still means HZ is neither loved or hated. It's just not getting attention. Either TPC are uninterested in promoting it or they're doing it in outdated ways. And now they're outsourcing it to death. TV is a dead man walking anyway.

Horizons will end around April 2026 either way. It's not a cancellation, it was planned like this. A new story with new protagonists will take over then. And that's a good thing, much better than a zombie protagonist frozen in time, going in circles for 25 years.

I predict in the long term HZ will have a small but loyal fanbase and then it will be "rediscovered" some years along the way, in a similar way to gen 5 games only getting love several years later.

Ashfags won't move on either way because they have never watched another series.

>>57953639
not even OP fans like the OP anime, specially post timeskip. Oda's schedule is incompatible with full year releases and Toei won't move to seasonal regime. Everyone recommends reading the manga.

>>57953686
>Not ash
Dead on arrival

>>57953695
Tv Tokyo shopro olm still produce it because they don't want leave the Pokemon brand, it still print money to them, the anime always will be shit, olm is not dropping Pokemon lol

Journeys at least had "member berries" fanservice, Horizons has nothing

>>57953686
I think a Pokemon anime would be way better if it followed the regional MCs. If Horizons had been about Area Zero with Florian and Juliana as leads,, I’d have watched it even if the pacing was slow.

>>57953695
It's getting attention, it's just that this retarded burgersite searches for the wrong name, so it doesn't FIND said attention.
>>57952119
>>57952244

>>57953702
Yeah and it treats them with more respect, Horizons shits on the SV characters to make their OCs look better.

>>57953695
>I predict in the long term HZ will have a small but loyal fanbase and then it will be "rediscovered" some years along the way, in a similar way to gen 5 games only getting love several years later.
I think this is too charitable. HZ's initial draw was speculation and mystery boxes. Living in a world where the 'answers' came and went to very little fanfare will only make those early installments feel hollow. I think Pokémon shouldn't concern itself with cliffhangers and serialized mysteries, but weekly entertainment value and simple rewatchability. They have yet to achieve that.

ITT: Retarded falseflaggers fail at falseflagging.

>>57953703
I think their logic now is "if you want a story that follows the game MC play the game". They don't want to repeat the same story in different media. I don't really agree but I see where they're coming from.

>>57952111 (OP)
the anime was never good, pokemon really should have stuck to the games only

>>57953717
I think it depends on the execution, I mean, they do the same with PokeSpe, it's not a bad idea if they did it in the anime too, exploring the characters more and adding lore to the cities and places.

>>57952111 (OP)
I told you changing ash was a mistake
Go woke go broke

>>57953724
Lore isn't nearly as important as characters. Snappier writing and more intense character relationships would be enough. Pokemon lore is so flexible and interchangeable that basing too much of a series around it (like Horizons) will always lead to lower ratings (like the low ratings of Horizons)

Focusing in Human characters always will be flop, Pokemon masters is fucking flop because it's focusing in human characters and floprizons is doing the same thing

>>57953724
Yea I'm not say it's a bad idea. I'm saying TPC seems to think it's a bad idea.

>they do the same with PokeSpe
Seems the manga's management is lot more hands-off considering the edgier turns it takes sometimes and how little it's promoted by Pokémon's main channels. To be honest, almost feels like a fan project from how little acknowledged it is, has it ever been featured in a Pokémon Presents for example?

>>57953760
No, it's too edgy for tpc

>>57953705
>it's been brought up that the reason it's not showing up is because the site is using the wrong name or hashtag
>the thread doesn't care at all and is ignoring that clarification
Why?

>>57953695
>Parrot Analytics is a dodgy website that picks social media engagement without distinguishing between positive and negative engagement
In short, Horizons is such a piece of shit that not only does it have barely any fans, it's not even good enough for ragebait.

>>57953695
It already has an audience, waifufags who want to fuck the female protagonist.

>>57953931
It's almost like this thread is just a handful of autists circlejerking about how something they dislike is totally super unpopular or something.
Facts that get in the way of what they need to be true must be ignored

>>57954126
Is your premise that Pokemon Horizons is popular bro? I'm sorry but all signs point to the anime struggling badly, you needn't look further than the random Lucario they added for attention. I don't even watch it and I can see that

>>57954129
It's fucking Pokemon, of course it's popular.

>>57953931
>>57954126
>>57954131
I have an idea, prove to me that Horizons is popular, instead of you doing mental gymnastics.

>>57954131
No it isn't. It has significantly lower DVR ratings than Journeys, which also underperformed in its latter half until championshilling. It hasn't been able to eke its way into the weekly top 11 in a long time, which all other anipoke series did more reliably. I know you love it and you want it to be popular, but just saying "it's Pokemon" doesn't mean it isn't underperforming, even relative to the modern TV landscape. The fact that they had to do a timeskip that STILL couldn't premiere into the weekly top 11 for TV anime says more than any
>the website is using the wrong monikor!!
cope ever could. If their big ratings trap with anipoke's first ever timeskip AND new shillcario STILL failed to get eyeballs, then yeah, bro... your show is undeniably cooked. Not popular.

>>57954143
>barely missing the weekly top 11 means you're unpopular
Nigger do you know how many anime series air every week in Japan?

Also
>2025
>live TV airings

>>57954145
You legitimately live in lala land if you think the show is a hit. At this point you're completely delusional. Yeah, it's a fucking hit even though it's the only anipoke series that can't crack the recorded weekly top 11 even with a ratings trap. The dramatically decreased budget is also a result of its extreme popularity. So popular that they decided to outsource all episodes to be animated in Korea.

I'm sure billions are secretly watching Liko and Roy's adventures but just don't ever talk about it anywhere. You're not a total fucking idiot.

Floprizonfags be like:
>Uhh… actually, Horizons is le super hecking popular! All the OCs have their own cards and... uh... they their own cards, m-maybe someday they’ll even get more! You want proof it’s popular? It just is, okay?!

>>57954145
>Nigger
Uh, bro, you shouldn't use the N-word, out of respect for the black OC who is the hero of all Horizons fans.

>>57954145
>2025
>live TV airings
It's a good thing they also upload new episodes to YouTube (JP only) where it can easily seen that Horizons does much worse than even late PM2019 did.

I laughed Ash out the door and welcomed a new protagonist. I'll always applaud an attempt at something new. But Horizons is a ratings flop, and, in my opinion, a creative failure.

>>57953695
One Piece has plenty of anime fans, more than enough to sustain a very high budget for a weekly anime. The execution and pacing are bad, but that hasn't stopped it from growing, relative to the modern TV landscape. That can clearly be seen in how the show looks fantastic, compared to Pokémon which hasn't gotten a great looking episode since last Fall

>>57954165
And yet, it's doing what it needs to, funding TV Tokyo with netflix bux (so over their historic average for selling it to burger telly) and keeping the brand marketed worldwide. Stop being facetious and pretending ash's tenure was high fucking art, it was kiddy slop aimed at marketing Pokémon at kids and autistic manchildren who pretended to be him, to escape their shitty little lives.
>adults are still terribly confused as to why a cartoon aimed at children does not pretend to care to be a constant in adult lives

>>57954243
What does that have to do with Horizons being garbage and a flop?

>>57954265
Nothing it's just a Likofag seething and sharting over their series sliding towards cancellation

125 posts
3 posters

>>57952111 (OP)
I wish they showed alternate versions of the MCs especially those who weren't shown in the old series. But they just don't want to commit, they want to be connected to Ash's series just in case they need to have him on the show some day.

>>57954298
Kid, they wanted to kill him off for years, they stayed their hand due to fear of autistic western reaction. They stopped giving a fuck about the spergs west-side, so ripped the band-aid off. Learn to deal with the new norm.

>>57954143
>The fact that they had to do a timeskip
You do know that the timeskip was planned from the start right? It was even in the Teraleaks. The nature did change (instead of Friede turning evil, Horizons had him disappearing instead), but the timeskip was always planned to happen.

>>57953734
OLM didn't even have to keep Ash, they could have just refocused to Max and Bonnie as the 10 year olds while having extremely rare cameos for characters like May, Brock, Serena, etc while leaving Ash out to keep it fresh

>>57954333
it was literally just Yuyama's autism and nip corporate culture of being afraid to challenge the senior executive

It doesn't matter they do with the anime, always will be shiit
>>57954205
>Comparing one piece with Pokemon
Lmao one piece it's based on a manga it has a history and serious plot, characters has personality, pokeshit anime is literally Dora the explorer tier

>>57952255
>No one but /vp/‘s most annoying furfags likes this thing, it’s quite literally a mascot character.
Anon, Meowscarada ranked 3rd and 1st in the last two big popularity polls in Japan.
Granted Ogerpon probably would be the first on the last poll if the votes for all forms were combined, but that would still make Meowscarada 2nd

>>57954243
>Stop being facetious and pretending ash's tenure was high fucking art
There it is, inventing a position to argue against that I don't even hold. The admission of defeat from the Horizonsfag.
>b-b-but.. YOU LOVE ASH!! WAAAAH!
No. I do not. I don't give a fuck about that little cartoon faggot. I don't even think any of his series were anything special.

They were all successful enough, however, to not have to become 100% outsourced like Horizons. Horizons flopped. Sorry.

>>57952111 (OP)
Boring, slow, nothing happens, characters not interesting, how many episodes are we in 100? How many pokemon does the MC have? 2?

>>57954809
It feels like a series designed for Pokémon fans that are embarrassed to be Pokémon fans.
>b-but the Explorers truly add stakes to it!!
>Liko is very introspective!!
>Lucius's backstory was so mature
>THEY KILLED OFF FRIEDE!!
No, it's still for babies it's just also really boring now. And you know what? Nobody wanted Horizons to be awesome more than me! I fucking hate the Ashpajeets and self inserters that didn't give it a chance, and that are coming out of the woodwork now to gloat that Horizons (obviously) flopping should mean the return of Ash.

Palworld anime is going to mog Pokemon tranime, can't wait, pokekeks just keep losing

>>57954790
I don't watch kid's cartoons, you sad autistic piece of shit. Which remains my point, normalfag adults don't give a monkey's about kid's TV the way sperg retards are incandescent about the same modernising itself. Go cry about how your childhood was so awesomest to handle reality some more, we already know from leaks they were fucking sick of the spic magnet.

>>57954790
And if you "didn't give a fuck about that little cartoon faggot" y9ou wouldn't IMMEDIATELY boogyman me as a fag still invested in kid's cartoons, much less the kid's cartoon series running fully 28 years after the IP's debut. Instead, you sperg about "horizonsfags" and autistically ignore it's aimed at fucking 7 year olds since its fucking debut.

>>57954889
>much less the kid's cartoon series running fully 28 years after the IP's debut
NTA but why are you on /vp/ then? The games and anime are in lockstep as for their target audience and level of maturity

Sure are a lot of people on this board that totally don't care about the anime while still investing considerable time and effort into looking up and arguing various statistics about it here

changing protagonst are always flops or the series lost popularity, just look mha vigilantes another flop nobody cares it if its not bakugo and deku lol

>>57955209
What about JoJo.

>>57955209
The games change protags with each gane and they are doing just fine

>>57955091
>povvo realises other people online aren't all poor
And they're a perfect game to burn a couple hours in a, what's the phrase you kids use oh yeah, "comfy" experience. I know they're for children, I've played them their entire life. But I'm not an autistic failure of a human to start pitching a shitfit because the kid's series doesn't care for serious mature grown ups, like (You) and your retarded little buddies ALL across the internet started doing when you grew up, because yis didn't understand the concept or scope of the thing (crying "it am falur", because it's not courting faggot 20-something westerners self-inserting into a 2d character with more swag than they'd see in 200 lifetimes).

>>57955209
Beyblade Burst got extended multiple times because it kept getting more popular despite changing protagonists.

>>57952111 (OP)
Horizons is... fine. I think the setup for Horizons was really interesting. A series with a larger focus on its plot that kept us wondering what would happen next, and what the truth behind certain elements was, sounded pretty awesome. That feeling was only accentuated by the fact we hadn't even received the DLC for the games yet, so we didn't know almost anything about Terapagos either. I think Horizons honestly had a lot going for it.
However, for about a year now, Horizons has clearly experienced a dip in quality that is very difficult to ignore. Plot points are rushed, the animation quality has gone down (most likely from outsourcing almost every episode by now) and battles feel very robotic a lot of the time. It's a real shame, because I think the first 25-50ish episodes had a lot of promise to them.

I think the problem with the anime, however, is very obvious now that the Teraleak happened and few of the internal meetings were leaked. Horizons was very poorly planned. A lot of details were constantly reworked, and even in December of 2022 they didn't really have a lot of things from Horizons planned (and they seemed to clash a lot with GF when it comes to the vision for a Paldea anime). It seems they had an initial premise planned, but a lot of later events, reveals and even plot points were left up for debate once they saw viewer reactions. I feel like this is the main reason the anime has turned out the way it has. I think one of the GF writers said it in a meeting too, but they basically describe Horizons as being written like a serialized manga would (which just isn't feasible because animation takes much longer).
As a result, a lot of Horizons' later episodes feel really poorly paced, in my opinion? And, because they are basically making things up on the spot, I imagine there's just not enough time to produce a lot of really good episodes. If they wanted to make Horizons so plot-heavy, they should have outlined the full story way, way earlier.

>>57955493
no, people only remembr tyson, its the same like pokemon toy franchises never get cancelled , ti is produced by tv tokyo too

>>57955493
bayblade get worse ratings than pokemon lmao nice try both air in the same block and same channel

>>57955627
What is the goal of the Horizons MCs, I mean with Ash it's very simple since episode 1, he wanted to be a Pokemon master.

>>57955672
the goal is tpc is pandering to westcuck and went full wokeshit they wanted a girl protagonist and every season its a brown kid and rival so they retired ash because of this

>>57955681
>brown kid
Wasn't he black? He dresses like the Prince of Fresh Air.

>>57955271
The first 3 are pure gold, the next 2 are decent, from Jotaro's daughter onwards the saga died

Digimon is another case. After Tamers ended, its audience fell, there was a nostalgic comeback for the sequel and a remake of Adventures, but they were ultimately poorly received.

Yugi Oh could never match the success of the first series, and BeyBlade was forgotten in the West after the third series.

Apparently, the magic number is 3. It's not a rule, but it's the longest a big fandom can handle with different protagonists, after that it fragments and becomes a niche thing.

I wonder what would happen if the One Piece story took place over generations and the protagonist had been changed 5 or more times.

>>57952111 (OP)
Female protag

>>57955672
Fagmon, every time I see you shit up a Horizons thread, I just wonder if something is wrong with your life. It's been 2 years, let it go already, jesus fucking christ. It's impossible to have nuanced discussion about anything anime-related because of you nowadays. We get it, you like Ash. We get it, you dislike Liko and Roy because god forbid OLM try something different for once. Please stop being obnoxious about it for once in your life, go touch grass or something.

I can bite if you want. Horizons MCs have very clear goals: in the first season Liko wanted to learn more about Terapagos, while becoming stronger because she's a very indecisive child. It's a coming-of-age story plot with mystery elements. Roy wants to catch the Shiny Rayquaza he has admired since he was a kid, and since he fails to catch it multiple times, he wants to be stronger to do so. It's the same "Pokémon Master" goal as Ash, with a different spin because AS ASH DISCOVERS DURING THE LAST JOURNEYS EPISODES, being a Pokémon Master is different for everyone.
Now, in the second season, they have the goal of stopping Exceed/the Explorers from spreading the Strong Spheres they have made with Rakurium that hurt Pokémon. They're also trying to figure out where Friede is, now that he's alive. Again, pretty simple plot with very clear objectives.
Satisfied now? Or are you going to shove the billionth explanation we give you up your ass like it never happened so you can keep being obnoxious? Take your autism meds, or seek electroshock therapy of something.

>>57955718
>Fagmon
I don't even know what that means? Does that mean I'm gay and a Pokemon? or is he your boyfriend? I never post in the anime threads because they seem artificial, with forced positivity and I feel like I'm reading paid content, also, I'm almost sure that any criticism is banned or deleted, it's like posting on reddit, I mean what kind of retard wants to post on the most plebbit thread on the board on fucking 4chan?
>Liko wanted to learn more about Terapagos
Terapagos isn’t even in episode one, that’s the issue with modern storytelling, no direction, no endgame, just slow pacing and stories that can’t figure out how to actually go anywhere, also she sounds like the worst kind of MC, the type who just reacts to stuff instead of actually doing anything to move the plot forward

>>57955770
fagmon is a mentally ill poster who is very obsessed with Ash and shits up threads, but he's also a very convenient scapegoat that HZ fanboys have been artificially using to try and discourage both discussion of past series AND earnest discussion of HZ's flaws. This is why the anime threads are littered with permeations of
>I wonder what Spinel is doing with the Rakurium now
>I hope Croc and Duck evolve
>Liko and Roy are such dorks
>Liko wants Alex
>LiDot canon soon
You're exactly right that it seems artificial because it is. They have nothing of substance to discuss and the show is crawling at a snail's pace. Jannies should look into it as it's basically ritualistic spam in the form of a general, if all ritualposts were removed there'd be like two people talking about the actual episodes.

>>57955806
Most of his "shitting up threads" normally started with the whole "Horizons MCs don't have goals, but Ash did! Ash wants to be a Pokémon Master" which is honestly why I just assume people who say that are, with 99% likelihood, fagmon. Hell, the "Liko just reacts to stuff" is also a fagmon argument, normally expressed in that exact same wording as well. I don't really understand how that's an argument in the first place like... yeah, Liko reacts to things. People tend to react to the things that happen around them? And then act accordingly? No one "does something to advance the plot" on a vacuum.
I don't really think HZ is immune to criticism, hell I think the show has a lot of issues especially right now. It's just that particular poster is very, very annoying.

They should be using Digimon Tamers as an example and accept that both the target and older audiences like when the story has some depth and darkness

>>57952111 (OP)
Too many browns, not enough Liko and Sango

Believe in DotLiko.

>>57955831
it doesnt work for pokemon, everytime pokemon do that its just cringe, pokemon designs are not good enough for it, it worked digimon because it has different design philosophy and , the pokemon anime just should take the poketoon formula i enjoyed it more than horizons

>>57955831
nah, Pokemon should be carefree, fun, and bursting with silliness and high-energy battles where creatures beat the shit out of each other. The Ashime had it right but was shackled to a shit main character who had to keep learning the same lessons over and over again. They should just cycle in a new kid every three years to do the same shit. Keep it simple for the love of God

>>57955806
This is probably my biggest issue with horizons, region itself feels almost completely ignored. What they did with Kitakami was honestly a spit in the face to anyone who was excited to explore it through the anime. The SV chars are underused and wasted. I’m not sure if horizons is planned to run until Gen 10, but if it’s not, then the writers really are stupid, they should have built everything based on Terapagos, Area Zero, Ogerpon and Pecharunt, I don't follow the anime, I tried to, but I’m pretty sure there’s still no setup for Liko heading to Area Zero.
As for Liko and Ash comparisons regarding goals, here’s the thing, Liko’s introduction was poorly handled. Her motivations should’ve been made clear in episode 1, not in episode 2 or 3. and Ash isn’t the only protagonist whose goal is introduced right away, look at the Big Three, Luffy wanted to become the Pirate King, Goku was off to find the Dragon Balls, and Naruto declared he would be Hokage, from the very first chap. That’s how you hook people, btw Why fagmon? Fagmon sounds like a fag pokemon.

Liko??? More like Lick-o my balls!

>>57955899
It is implied that the events of SV already happened.

>>57952111 (OP)
Getting rid of Yajima the 1st season, covid fucking up the production, can't commit to a plot focused storyline, cool cast of characters that don't get enough focus, episodes just aren't as fun as previous series.

>>57955335
Because you are the protag wearing the mask of an in-game avatar that never talks and has no personality. There's no main character to get attached to since its you driving the story forward.

Everything wrong with Horizons:
>It focuses on a large group of original anime characters instead of characters of the games people care about.
>The pokemon are no longer the focus, and it focuses on human characters instead
>The episodes don't have the "pokemon of the week" format, which makes them less memorable.
>It has almost no comedy, which is very boring for kids.
>The protagonists get everything handed to them effortlessly, like Roy, who gets a shiny Lucario and a mega stone out of nowhere and defeats a champion with them.
>The characters don't have goals; they're just there working together to do things for some reason.
>Overall, the plot is dumb and unfocused, fanfic-esque.
>the only audience are literal pedophiles or pokephiles

>>57955918
>covid fucking up the production
nigga, this anime released in 2023, the covid stuff only fucked up Journeys back in 2020

>>57955932
The goal was "reach Laqua", but then they did that. Now the plot's back to being a snail with no true aim and the only reason Roy has a Mega Lucario is to shill L:Z-A.

>>57955982
the thing is that a personal goal should be something more meaningful, and not just "reach x place"

>>57955982
The current goal is to stop the Explorers and their use off Rakurium as well to restore the name of the RVT.

>>57955627
>#
>Horizons is... fine.
That's still sugercating.

>A series with a larger focus on its plot
That's why it failed.
Pokémon is a character driven long running anime, not a plot driven short seasonal anime. Plot means absolutely nothing when the characters that supposed to carry it are uninteresting and unappealing. Pokémon run for long time because of the popularity of Ash and TRio with a recyclable formula, not because it was plot driven.

>>57955982
It sounds like anime doesn't know what it wants to be, this kind of shit is what has killed animes, series and movies.

The Ashnime was so good that Likonime pales in comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZccKUMgLRE8

>>57956270
Man, I really miss Ash, I can't believe all the missed opportunities of him traveling in Paldea.

>>57956189
this, focusing drama shit and retarded plot and human characters is why horizons is flopping, the ashnime only focused in pokemon of the day even in horizons every time is trending in japan is never for the human character if not the pokemon , the last time was the chubby lycaron ludslow quagsire or tatsugiri episode

>>57956433

Pokemon is about Pokemon, all merch is , the selling point in Pokemon is the monsters, only Pokemon fight, not humantrash

I am not an Ash guy, I was super excited to try Horizons and it actually is quite great.. for like 10 episodes. Afterwards it actually becomes worse than the Ash stuff. Definitely the worst series they've ever done.

>>57952111 (OP)
I watched HZ as well, but it kind of went boring for me after like 10 episodes or something. There isn't a pull factor that wants me to keep watching unlike the Ash era.

Just tell me, is Roy an absolute unite like Ash able to do even a quarter of his physical feats?

So they're going to can this and introduce a new male protagonist again right?

>>57956766
Either that or go back to Ash, now fully focused on his "befriend all the Pokemon of the world" agenda since he literally cannot go higher than being the world's strongest trainer in terms of battling prowess.

>>57952394
>Why are you--
gay?

>>57956779
>go back to Ash
Not happening, they know you can't nerf him again and people would riot if they tried. I can see them trying a male mc this time tho, Liko is more popular than Roy by a lot but whether she's popular with pedos or the intended audience is another thing

>>57956805
That's why I said they'd drop the battle focus and instead focus on the next step of his Pokemon Master journey, which, again, is to befriend all the Pokemon of the world.

>>57956818
If they were ever to do that (and I HEAVILY doubt they will), I feel that kind of plot would be better as shorts rather than a full, traditional series.

>>57955932
The OC characters in the 1st part of HZ are seen doing mundane things like Liko doing laundry on a ship constantly.

>>57956853
Slice of life anime are slop and only work if the characters are charismatic or interesting enough.

>>57956805
>they know you can't nerf him
There is no need too since the anime can become Slice Of Life with well animated battles such as Frieren and Killing Slime For 300 years.
Also Pokémon Trainers can be nerf if they use team of inexperienced Pokémon as long as their ace take a backseat.

Honestly after the borefest like Horizon that outright insulted game characters, I don't want anymore Pokémon anime with OC protagonist except for Ash and TRio. Specially since it going to be the 30th anniversary with Generation 10 next year.

>>57956861
Isn't that exactly what Ash and TRio were?.

If the anime isn't going to be about adventuring through the newest region until the next gen comes then it really doesn't need to be 3-4 years long. Relaunch the anime every year with new characters and new stories every year like Sentai.

>>57957059
Ah yes, stretching the hands making the weekly advertisment thin even further.

Brilliant idea, honestly. Who cares after learning about the shit from behind the scenes?

Dumbass.

>>57957044
somehow even less interesting than Flatko and Boy

>>57957059
>Relaunch the anime every year with new characters and new stories every year like Sentai.
You still insisting this after the borefest like Horizon.
Show like Sentai & Precure simply just repeat the same formula in different way over & over which Pokemon no longer has.,

>>57957066
Please stop living in denial.
Anybody watching old anime can tell Ash & TRio were much better , interesting & compelling than Liko & Roy.

>>57957144
>>57957147
At this point its obvious that ash and liko not popular enough like doraemon and digimon. Anipoke need to give up users ng OC like them and use real character like Red and Calem who are more competent and not OC

>>57957160
>At this point its obvious that ash and liko not popular enough like doraemon and digimon.
Correction, Liko and Roy are not popular.
Ash is still popular enough to carry the show as long as anipoke comes up with new excuses to go to new region to catch new pokemon such as Ash comng to paldea for Terastal course only to get involve with Arven & Penny which lead to a finale where he take on an AI that analyzed tactics of every champion.

XY and XY&Z has proven that people would like any series with Ash as long as he has an attractive love interest.

>>57952111 (OP)
Mewoscarada killed this gay show

>>57957176
Combining all the champions of Paldea together won't be able to provide a real challenge to Ash.
Now, if Paradise Protection Protocol was revamped for the anime's story to use battle data from every champion WORLDWIDE, Ash himself INCLUDED, that would be a real ultimate challenge.

>>57957176
No reason to guve a damn about ash or liko. Both gifted wins mary sues who no adventure or goals not a single reason to care for such bland and uninteresting OC

>>57957176
>XY and XY&Z has proven that
Spastic self-inserters and 20-something spergs prefer watching a kid's cartoon that allows them to pretend to be a 1-0 year old boy. Stop pretended adults give a sghit about kid's programmes. That's unironically why you bastards have been in a snit two years - you're the only adults on the planet who does and no cunt in the production of it gives a shit some sad fucker has a sad over a kid's cartoon. It's been 12 years, grow the fuck up.

>>57957187
>Combining all the champions of Paldea together won't be able to provide a real challenge to Ash
Wrong, they provide far greater challenge for Ash than Leon. Not to mention if third legendary pokemon become household pets for OC then they could at least serve as a challenge for Ash to defeat.

>>57957251
If any of Paldea's champs are stronger than Leon, then why haven't they competed in the World Coronation Series to dethrone him?
That's the problem with introducing a "world's strongest" competition, for future hurdles that are better than the "world's strongest" you now have to justify why there's someone stronger who just... didn't compete for some reason.
And the greatest contender in that regard, Nemona, is absolutely the kind of trainer who would throw herself at the WCS without a second thought because she could get the best opportunity to battle trainers at her level, and battling is basically her main form of communication and bonding with other people. She'd be utterly fucktarded to not compete.

>>57957251
Ash not even strong enough for beat a freaking politoad what chance he have against nemona. Heck even Roy already stronger than him proven by beat nemona who is stronger than ash.
>>57957261
This just proves ash anime worst writing of all to promote the OC ash. Even Roy not promoted so hard for desperate virws

>>57957190
>Both gifted wins mary sues
If Ash was a Mary Sue than he would have been the Champion of Indigo League during Johto Journey. But apparently being the first person to defeat a gym leader with a Dragonite that uses 10 moves is not enough to defeat an Elite 4 member or Gary .

Yet Horizon expect us to believe Roy become Champion Level offscreen because nobody cares about him.

>>57957261
>If any of Paldea's champs are stronger than Leon, then why haven't they competed in the World Coronation Series to dethrone him?
Geeta is too busy being League Chariman and Champion. she desperately wants strong trainers to join the Paldea League.
While Nemona is stuck with school work which probably prevent her from travelling to other region.

>>57957291
Cool, doesn't explain any of Paldea's other champions though, and we know plenty exist due to how Paldea's league operates.

>>57957288
Ash get 8 badges at all already gifted wins. Heck he need cheat and gifted badges everytime unlike Roy who work for them without cheat. No wonder Roy already stronger than him. But Roy is OC mary sue replacement for Ash so no reason to give a damn about him either.

At this point it obvious anipoke have no idea how write interesting and competent MC who interested in girls

>>57957264
>>57957264
>Even Roy not promoted so hard for desperate virws
Dude they turned the strongest champion on Paldea into a joke in an attempt to make people care about Roy. That's how desperate they are to promote Roy.

>>57957297
>>57957297
>Ash get 8 badges at all already gifted wins
Ash faced the consequence for getting pity badge by being humiliates on Indigo League. That's make him better, he actually face consequences for doing something wrong and getting anything gifted to him. Unlike Roy, Liko and Alain that never face any consequence even when they make other character suffer or dooms an entire region.

>>57957301
Thats what year of training do maybe ash could learn from Roy.

My idea for gen 10 anipoke: Roy go to new region as teacher and meet boy with pikachu who think he tough but unable to defeat cap. So Roy cheer him up by try teach him rising voltackle, but the boy so stupid it take enire gen to teach him. Then at final episode boy finally do it but turns out he cheat by use Iron Tail for spring jump, but Roy congratulate him for clever thinking to make up for not having competent as roy.

>>57957305
You mean Ash gifted badges unlike roy who earn them. Heck Ash even gifted wins in indigo leage even though he not even deserve to be there. In fact, unlike Alan and Roy he not even train for he place and instead blame others all time like incompetent . No reason to give a damn something so uninteresting and gifted wins. OC always boring mary sue

>>57957309
>Thats what year of training do maybe ash could learn from Roy.
Oh you mean being strong by doing nothing because the writers favors them.

My idea for gen 10 anime is Ash going to new region and start living with a family whose daughter does not like Ash as they argue like Ranma & Akane. New characters with quirky personality shows up to pick a fight a with Ash (Kuno, Ryuga, Moose) and later Ash to battle Noble Beast/ Titan pokemon equivalent from Gen 10 region to stop a bad guy.

>>57957312
>You mean Ash gifted badges unlike roy who earn them.
How many badge that Roy got? oh 0.

213 posts
3 posters

>>57957318
Pretty sure 4chan stopped showing number of posters.

>>57957314
You mean do thing ash never done single time to spend year train. Snd in fact since anipoke is floating timeline it mean Roy train longer than Ash even been a trainer so it no freaking wonder he stringer.
But it does not matter because Roy is Ash version upgrade 2.0 and is still OC mary sue just like Ash. No reason to give a damn

>>57957160
>Digiflop
Lmao

>>57957191

The most delusional this fucker think ash is coming back because horizon is "flopping"hahahaha

>>57957301
>they turned the strongest champion on Paldea into a joke in an attempt to make people care about Roy.
Reminds me how the anipoke tried to make leon's rillaboom into a beast that sweeped deantha in a desperate way to make it a popular pokemon and still failing lol

>>57952409
>But shudo hated women like most trannies
He literaly wrote a novel about a lesbian princess you retard.

It's honestly just extremely boring, and I fucking hate saying that because I was excited to see them finally, FINALLY do something fucking different for once. The promise of an actual original story, a cast of mostly adults, villains that aren't Team Rocket for a change. This should have all added up to something cool, but nobody is going to remember this when it's finished because it's all so aggressively dull.
I think it's biggest sin however is that the pokemon don't feel like they're allowed to be their own characters anymore. OK, the starters are, but that's literally it. Any other pokemon is lucky to be seen out of it's ball, and if they are they just to job in a battle so the starter can step in and clean up.

Animes would be better with femcel main characters

>>57957500
There's Dot.

>>57957318
That's actually /padt/ with its endless reports and the same two incest and rape jokes being repeated ad nauseum

>>57957687
/padt/ is the most fucking retarded thread I've ever seen, literally nothing but autists spamming the same shitty ritualposts and memes over and over in a desperate attempt to keep the thread alive 24/7 despite nobody ever discussing the anime there. Pretty sure it's just the local hangout for some Discordfucks too.

>https://pokemonbbs.com/post/patio_i.cgi?k=c-anime0
Nips hate this anime, especially after the Roy vs Nemona battle. They want Ash back

>>57957687
>Look up the thread
>Less than 10 posts about rape and invest
>They actually discuss the episodes, potential captures
>The only deleted posts are from a ESL lolcow who is repeating his babbling dating back into 2021
Did they fucked your mom or why are you bringing them up out of nowhere?

>>57957731
It rates much higher than Ash's show on average.

>>57957747

Do you faggots even know basic math?

>>57957749
>Go sucks
>btw fuck goh
Based

>>57957747
that usually happens when there are only 5 people watching

>>57957818
Unfortunately for your autism, the voters number in the thousands.

>>57952111 (OP)
The Pokémon games are shit and have been shit since Alola. But at least Alola and Galar were somewhat interesting. Paldia is a big nothing map with shallow NPCs littered around it. There is simply no source material to pull from right now, so the anime is trying its own thing and only has die-hard Pokémon fans keeping it alive, much like the games these days.
Just think about how Horizons started. We were in Kanto again! Kanto! Paldia didn't even show up until they got on a blimp and started going across the world. And when they got to Paldia, the only way that the anime could make it interesting was to pull all the important characters to one spot to have a tournament.

>>57952231
/Thread. Why would anyone torture themself by watching a season with a cast they didn't ask for?

>>57957861
Liko should have been Ash's daughter, and they should have started WW3 by finally selecting Ash's main girl and throwing every shipper in the world into dismay.

>>57957869
They did. Fags screeched and waifufags ignored it because it wasn't their pick. The very fact that they spent time abnd animation budget money writing a Latias plot AND including a random shot of Bianca!Latias into the thing should have been crystal to you fucking monkeys. She was Japan's choice after all.

>>57957869
I'm glad they didn't. Now I can tell myself Misty won the Ashbowl and anyone who says otherwise can suck my dick.

>>57957903
Suck my dick bestiality scitzo.

>>57957861
ashfags need to accept change.

>>57957869
They already selected Serena, and the only reason you're not aware of that is because autistic shippers got so butthurt and falseflagged so hard about how they totally didn't.

>>57957910
>point proven
Stay mad paedo.

Premise: I didn't bother to watch a lot of HZ, Pokeanime is something I personally grew out from since ages but somehow I still feel affection towards it and happen to watch some episodes when they're on tv.

The best thing quality wise was going for a shorter, quality wise more advanced series, like Generation or Wing, but longer, who would've got the shonenfags to watch it too along with your average pokemon fan who's often an Otaku at heart, a seasonal anime people would've talked about and have fun with. Unfortunately nips are very traditionalist so it was already a lot they allowed the anime to not get a continuous run anymore. As some anons said they need to advertise the show to kids, which is fine but ignoring your older fans (who outnumber kids by a lot) is a pretty stupid move when they could've brought money AND audience so the show could get movies to bank up on later

>>57958008
Shows aimed at very young kids can't be seasonal. A kid age 6 who watches Pokemon every week is not going to enjoy being told he'll have to wait half a year for the next episode. That's a fucking eternity to them.

>>57958022
I know, my point is that they should stop using the anime as promotion. It's pokemon, the most well known and rich videogame franchise as of now, Mario doesn't have a show and everyone buys his games regardless, and so will happen to Pokemon. Kids entertain themselves differently anyway these days, toddlers as well. Producing a show with a good story, a good production and have it watched by older fans and most probably kids as well would transform the anime from a glorified ad to something profitable for itself. The kids would rewatch the episodes over and over again, watch some toddler Pokemon show on their ipads and playing with the games meanwhile the show is produced for the next season


In short, I don't think the anime actually helps new generations into engaging with pokemon anymore, as it is already a well established franchise...and the anime contributed nothing to that since Sun and Moon

>>57952111 (OP)
It's somehow more boring than watching Ash and friends being stuck in a forest for the 258th time, and the animation is dogshit too, it's all stiff and clearly shows symptoms of a budget cut

>>57958049
>Mario doesn't have a show and everyone buys his games regardless
Yes, but they're not begging their kids for endless amounts of merch featuring individual Mario characters. The Pokemon anime doesn't just promote the games, it constantly places different Pokemon in front of the kids and makes them interested in merch of those Pokemon.

Mario games outsell Mario merch by a huge margin, it's the other way around with Pokemon.

>>57958061
so you think there's no way to have a good quality anime and still promote the merch? Genuine question

>>57958065
I think the current anime is pretty good.

>>57958065
Nta but do you honestly think they care about quality beyond lip service? The games proved that you don't need to put effort when they will buy it anyways

They should just make an anime that's enjoyable for adults and kids. It can still be relatively cheaply produced like always, but it's as simple as this;

You keep the stories really simple. Heartfelt feelgood shit with a big emphasis on fighting. Protagonist should be a naive optimistic kid, and they should be paired up with a deuteragonist who's a bit older, with a bit more of a mean streak, who does most of the comedic heavy lifting per-episode. Basically the Squidward, you dig? Even on a shoestring budget, each episode should have a strong purpose.
>this week is a very emotional one
>this week is really cool and has a big battle
>this week is basically a 22 minute shitpost
We don't need a series-long mystery or complicated overarching plot. We also don't need to bear the burden of 30 years of gay retarded stupid motherfucking Ash history. We just need something simple.

I fucking love Pokemon. I want nothing more than to WATCH Pokemon. I enjoyed bits of every series, but I'm sorry, Horizons is doing nothing for me, and I really tried to enjoy it, with all my heart. I'm well aware that these shows are cheap slop, but that becomes a lot more obvious when they're trying to build up hype and 'stakes' on their $15 budget. Keep it simple, stupid!!

>>57958087
as I said, something like Generation and Twilight Wings would've been perfect

>>57958087
my problem isn't even with Liko, or Roy to a lesser extent. I mean they could do something more to make them appealing to audiences searching for more character, but they can still be mains. As others pointed out the problem is too many OCs, far too many OCs. The whole crew was unnecessary, they're nice guys, however there were actual characters already well established for gen 9. To remove the AI professors, Penny and Arven from the main team, not getting Kieran (probably the most popular a rival has ever been with the fandom) as a rival, having them move away from Paldea...those were all huge mistakes. It was literally all there, all written in the game, they just needed to make a story about it for the anime.

That's the biggest mistake of HZ. People used to watch the Ash show not just for the Ash brand, but because they were curious how the anime would transposit the videogames' stories in the main show. I was one of those people. As soon as the anime stopped doing that, people stopped caring about it.

>>57958097
Meh, a bit too serious. Generations especially had this ghastly art style that attempted to punch up the game character and add realistic detail that wasn't needed. It definitely felt like a bunch of Youtube videos made to make Pokemon seem really epic and mature, but kiddie fun is inherent to the Pokemon formula and should be embraced rather than minimized. There's a correct balance to strike and they haven't hit it yet. It's foolish to leave money on the table!

>>57958124
You hit the nail on the head. Trading out Ash really isn't an issue at all, if anything, fans and their high expectations for him to be 'respected' and gain more power became a detriment to the show doing whatever it wanted. Journeys had a high volume of game characters and Pokemon-focused outings, but if it didn't 'bring glory to Ash' it'd be panned by the audience they'd accrued, so they made the ending all about Ash becoming the world's strongest, which, to me, was boring.

Liko and Roy have a similar issue where, yeah, they're fine in a vacuum, but when the story is overly concerned with the protagonists themselves rather than the fun world they get to live in, it stops feeling like Pokemon.

>>57958137
>so they made the ending all about Ash becoming the world's strongest
That really wasn't his end as a character at all, even before the MPM series his real end in Journeys was telling Goh that it was time to move on to his next adventure, or are you talking from a meta perspective?

Liko is a girl. A girl couldn't possibly be a long term main character for a shonen like Pokemon. Girls are simply not as competitive as boys are and Pokemon is about battling to be number one.

>>57958150
I disagree on that. The contrast of a non competitive protag living in a competitive world, and searching from something else, could be fantastic, and work very well with Kieran as well. They show could focus on pokemon wackiness and mysteries as well instead of battles, gen 9 seems a good place to do that since the main story was about the ecosystem getting fucked up. Roy got the battle part covered too

The problem is that they didn't bother to add much flavor to them

One of the MCs is a white girl and the other MC is black boy, I'm not going to watch an anime with that kind of propaganda.

>>57952237
>they’ve went so far with him that they kind of dug their own hole
This, Ash was fine for Kanto and Orange Islands, but the focus should have shifted from him after that. By using him for so long, the anime became the Ashime. What would have helped Horizons is if it loosened it shackles a bit an went a little harder on the more darker aspects of the Pokemon world.

>>57958191
Roy is japanese.

>>57952111 (OP)
>Parrot Analytics
Aren't their metrics inherently flawed

>>57957731
>pokemonbbs
is this representative or an autist echo chamber like /vp/ itself?

>>57958282
he's literally darker than Brock, I guess he's one of those new modern Kantonians

>>57958150
Pokémon's always been komodo you dumb motherfucker.

>>57958483
>komodo
Actually, that wasn't until gen 7.
It's kodomo, you nitwit.

>>57957903
>She was Japan's choice after all.
Based pokephillics

Now you remember all the retired PLA lore and it all makes sense.

>>57957906
They did go with Misty, getting the final hints while ignoring every other option is as close to a seal of approval the writers were going to give a ship if they weren't aging Ash and giving him a definitive end.

>>57957922
No? Ash's endgame was left completely ambiguous. Just because someone said "oh yeah, Serena is who Ash will get together with" doesn't mean it's final, because plans can always change. Maybe they'll come back to Ash's journey long after the guy who said that has died, and he'll end up hooking up with a completely different character instead.

Fuck Ash
Fuck Liko
what we need is a hard-reboot with Red, Blue, Leaf and Erika as the main characters by the start, and then following other protagonists and characters from the games in the next seasons

>>57958535
>>57958550
Stay mad.

>>57958583
Keep projecting.

>>57952111 (OP)
Whose brilliant idea was it to have a girl be the main character of a boy's anime? Because that's what went wrong.

>>57958604
The Pokemon anime was never specifically for boys, it's always been for very young children in general, which is why SM was a gag anime full of meme faces and slapstick.

>>57958604
tpc went full woke thats why they removed ash, they wanted a girl and brown kid,ash is too japanese for nu tpc

>>57958604
ObsidianStone, they have shares in nintendo and Pokémon, no, I can't post proof without getting banned but they're in the archive just use their real name

tv tokyo, is the problem with the anime they like milk every anime for money, they are the reason naruto fillers exists

>>57958608
I don't know why they did this when Ash was already a PoC and part of LGBT.

>>57958630
and OLM is making more seasonal anime
and doesn't want to let go of the franchise because its pokemon still print money
https://www.olm.co.jp/works

>>57958577
Why Erika?

Meow

>>57958634
>false equivalence fallacy
Ash is an Asian boy in an Asian product that appeals to fellow Asians
Roy is a black in an Asian product that tries to appeal to Westerners

>>57959064
Ash is as asian as a russian is white and acts blacker than Roy

>>57959072
>no real refutation
Nig...

>>57959072
So much cope, Ash got tanner with time unlike Roy

>>57959100
He's even got spanish facial hair. It's over for Ash.

>>57959191
>Retard tries to force his agenda on a clearly Asian boy

>>57959235
How else do you explain Ash being uncharacteristically stupid and brash for an asian?

>>57959237
Sooo do you think that the times Ash reacted incorrectly to situations was because of race all this while you defend a black?

>>57959285
All I see are two joggers.

>>57952111 (OP)
For me its that I have no damn idea what this series is about still. An OC pokemon plotline sounds like it could be cool, but from what I initially saw of the series it seemed like not much of anything was happening in its first year of airing.

I stopped closely following the anime after XY, but if I looked into the most recent episodes in SM and Journeys I could always tell what Ash was up to.

They don't cancel it because the merch sells, they put the Pokemon anime logo in everything even the Pokemon in the merch are unrelated to the anime lol

>>57959382
They slap the anime logo in everything

>>57959387

>>57959382
>>57959387
>>57959398
If they just slap the logo on everything to say "lol anime is a success regardless of ratings" then why did they even bother with concluding Ash's journey?

>>57959401
Idk the leak say problem with the voice actor or tpc wanted a girl protagonist this time

>>57959405
>say problem with the voice actor
It also said that they really didn't give a fuck about that, so it was probably the later given all the focus on Liko in the leaks but I suppose someone told them to suck dick and that they needed a boy too

Tpc wanted Rica Matsumoto out, she is not even in the anime meanwhile ohtani got another role

>>57959419
Wasn't there a leak saying that even a cameo of Ash would steal the complete spotlight of the new cast too?

Rica Matsumoto san ruined your ashiboy lol

>>57958124
>To remove the AI professors, Penny and Arven from the main team, not getting Kieran (probably the most popular a rival has ever been with the fandom) as a rival, having them move away from Paldea...those were all huge mistakes
The huge mistake was adapting SV at all.

>>57959419
>>57959434
This is why Ash is never coming back btw. After Japan learned Rica was a bully who abused her coworkers there was no hope for Ash staying.

>>57959431
Correct. He's the fucking Mickey Mouse of Pokemon, as said by TPC themselves.

>>57959573
Nah, that's Pikachu.
Ash and Red are Donald and Goofy tho

>>57958191
>One of the MCs is a white girl and the other MC is black boy
Japs, despite being friendly, are not fans of this type of couples, there is a reason why the default MC in several animes is a pale skinned, black/brown haired boy who ends up with a pale, black/brown haired girl, Japs are NOT cucks.

>>57959588
NTR is the number one genre tho

The new show sucks ass but the thought of watching another series about Ash's dusty ass in his pointless journey makes me want to blow my brains out

>>57958191
He is an islander retard.

>>57959100
>Ash got tanner with time unlike Roy
the skin color always looked the same

>>57959595
I'm pretty sure that's false.

>>57959047
NTA but because she's cute as fuck that's why

>>57958483
>>57958150
Anime doesn't use those terms.
And Shonen/komodo/seinen is just a category, not a genre

>>57958160
>work very well with Kieran as well
Kieran wasn't the protagonist, he was a NPC. The entire point of his character is to show how unfair the world of the game happens to be when you are not the player character.

At this point I don't even want Kieran in the anime anymore.

>>57960520
You say it like it would be very hard to make Kieran a recurrent character.

>>57960526
Dude, the series didn't even respect Nemona as the champion. Do you think this anime will treat Kieran any better? The guy already suffered enough for being a NPC, we don't need this guy to go anymore humiliation to shill Liko and Roy.

>>57960579
NTA but you're missing the point. It's not hard.

And who the fuck is "we"?

>>57960584
>It's not hard.
Does not matter if the anime won't respect the game character and outright humiliates them out of sheer jealousy for being better than the New OC.

>>57960838
What the hell is up with that mentality of "Humilation"? Nemona is happy with battling, why is her being in-character now "humilating"?

>>57960907
>Nemona is happy with battling
A Champion lost to a freaking nobody with zero accomplishment and that is humiliating no matter how much you sugercoat it,

>>57960918
That's the plot of SV.

>>57960918
>A friendly spar is humilating
Aside from this sounding utterly retarded, your assessment is just blatantly wrong or undermining.

>>57959643
Still trying to cope by bashing Ash even when he is not even in the show.

Truth is that Horizonfags and bunch of higher-up only wanted protagonist because that is what some other anime did, not because it was necessary. Its like some Toei executive suddenly decide that Goku has been a protagonist for a long time & Akira Toriyama is dead now so they should replace him with a new meek beta protagonist from a bloodline of an ancient saiyan that makes him stronger than Broly and set t in a timeline completely unrelated to main Dragonball. Oh wait , they already done that with Goku jr but nobody remembers him.

Protagonist rotation for plot driven anime, Pokemon was a character driven anime.

>>57960932
When the strongest champion loses to a literal who with no accomplishment, it is humiliating.

>>57960930
No, the plot of SV is about Time machine transporting pokemon form a different timeline to the present .

>>57959643
Still trying to cope by bashing Ash even when he is not even in the show.

Truth is that Horizon fans and bunch of higher-up only wanted protagonist rotation because that is what some other anime did, not because it was necessary. Its like some Toei executive suddenly decide that Goku has been a protagonist for a long time & Akira Toriyama is dead now so they should replace him with a new meek beta protagonist from a bloodline of an ancient saiyan that makes him stronger than Broly and set t in a timeline completely unrelated to main Dragonball. Oh wait , they already done that with Goku jr but nobody remembers him.

Protagonist rotation for plot driven anime, Pokemon was a character driven anime.

>>57960944
And a champion-level trainer being bested in every occasion by a complete newbie.

>>57960947
Because the game supposed to be a wish fulfillment fantasy but that's not how anime works.

>>57960953
Leave the expectations given by the Ashnime behind. Horizons It's is own thing.

>>57960939
>Always be a tryhard, don't have fun or else it's humilating
Jesus christ, no sense of humor.

>>57960961
>Leave the expectations given by the Ashnime behind
You mean the thing that made Ashnime awesome and fair.

>Horizons It's is own thing.
You mean a wish fulfilment fantasy about two uninteresting that nobody cares about gets everything handed to them while more interesting game characters are treated like a dirt out of writing staff's sheer jealousy toward them being better than their OC.

>>57960970
There is nothing fun about the entire region turns into a joke in a fail attempt to shill bunch of dull OC.

>>57960980
>There is nothing fun about a proper characterization of a battle-hungry character who enjoys it no matter the outcome
I would tell you to chill out and maybe go outside, maybe get a job but going off by your broken record tantrum rn, I doubt you're incapable of either of those.

>>57961007
>I would tell you to chill out and maybe go outside, maybe get a job but going off by your broken record tantrum rn
Learn to follow your own advise instead of telling people to do something you don't do.

>>57959662
Ash took his Kahuna duties seriously.

>>57961061
Why are the women of that family so hot.

>>57961053
>No u
Good job proving my point.

the worst part about not enjoying Horizons is that people wind up conflating you with crazy Fagmon. Liko and Roy are fine, the show is just bad

>>57961106
I don't know who that is but aside from one mention of him ITT, I guess that's just wrong.

Or is that the ESL who got nuked multiple times ITT alone for his serieswarring spergouts?

>>57961106
> Liko and Roy are fine
> Two OC protagonist so uninteresting and dull that the anime has to treat the main region & more interesting game characters likes dirt to make them look more important.

They are not fine and the last episode proven it. Both of them are now a pair of Mary Sue & Gary Stu. The moment the anime shoved a Lucario & Pikachu on Roy to call him the new "Champion Level Ash" without the development , training and growth Ash to reach Champion , he became one of the worst copycat character.

>>57961106

> Liko and Roy are fine
> Two OC protagonist so uninteresting and dull that the anime has to treat the main region & more interesting game characters likes dirt to make them look more important.

They are not fine and the last episode proven it. Both of them are now a pair of Mary Sue & Gary Stu. The moment the anime shoved a Lucario & Pikachu on Roy to call him the new "Champion Level Ash" without the development , training and growth Ash took to reach Champion level , Roy became one of the worst copycat character.

What did Matsumoto do for her to be removed from the anime? I've always read on Japanese forums that she had a bad attitude.

>>57960918
She loses to the player in the game all the time.

>>57961610
Player character is meant to be a self insert as everything in the game exists solely for the player which is unfair and only make sense when you are playing the game. But the anime is different because treating the protagonist like the player character would turn them into a lazy Mary Sue..

Remember that Nebby choose Lillie, not the player yet the player is one who catches Nebby.

>>57959546
All OLM has to do to remove Rica Matsumoto is have one of them staff expose Rica and use the scandal to remove her.

>>57955672
>Ash it's very simple since episode 1, he wanted to be a Pokemon master.
That's as huge and vague as Luffy wanted to be the Pirate King in One Piece.