I miss when we could discuss competitive Pokemon without spergouts in every thread.

>Intimidate: While this Pokemon is on the field, the Attack stat of opposing Pokemon is 0.8x.
>this means it is separate from stat changes, and is removed when the intimidate user switches out
how does this affect the ability and its users?

>>57955355
It'd kill the ability. At least make it like the Vessel of Ruin ability

>>57955377
isn't that already how those work though? the only difference is that the ruin abilities are a 25% reduction as opposed to 20%, and the ruin abilities affect ALL mons, not just opponents (iirc)
unless you just mean 20% is too minimal of a stat reduction to keep the ability usable

>>57955339 (OP)
Such a time never existed on /vp/. People were sperging out about "smogonfags" on day 1.

>>57955566
It's not just for Smogon these days:
>stantler/zebstrika/whatever the latest dex cut strawman is
>samurott (or anything gen 5)
>physical/special split
>legends arceus (or hisui as a whole)
>frostbite replacing freeze
>ice getting any new resistances
>rock getting new special moves/electric getting new physical moves
>gen 3's battle frontier
>perceived decline in quality of the games

It's borderline impossible to have a discussion without some faggot ruining the thread be it genuine or a false flag.

>>57955629
Fuck off pissfartschizo

>>57955339 (OP)
staring at fanfic website != discussing competitive pokemon

>>57955339 (OP)
honestly it seems ppl just wanna rant or get disturbingly horny. is there somewhere better to talk about it? because I really wanna build a better doubles sun/electric terrain team

>>57955355
Intimidate is fine in Singles :^)

>>57955629
I'm pretty sure it's just Verlisify and/or his fans doing it.

>>57955665
Other than the smogon forums and the showdown chat rooms? There's probably a discord for whatever meta you play, or reddit.

>>57955339 (OP)
>Keldeo
>Latios
>Greninja
>Rotom-W
>HEATRAN
what went wrong

>>57955788
Garchomp also fell to UU earlier this gen. As did Pelipper. Blaziken also got quickbanned out of UU.

Don't forget that Tornadus-T, Scizor, and Serperior are down there as well. And Weavile just clawed its way out of the tier.

>>57955788
We morn for them and crucify the demon known as Meganium.

>>57955823
>Meganium
Tauros*

>>57955823
Meganium hasn't even received any nerfs. It's just been a shitmon since its inception. Turns out Grass is kind of a terrible type.

>>57955640
EVERYONE WHO CALLS ME OUT IS PISSBUTTFAG

howling how rachi hasn't been looked at for suspect testing in gen 4 OU, you can talk about machamp forcing coin flips but rachi is beyond that, a minimum of 60% chance to have a free turn is beyond coin flip, it's worse as it's a completely broken mechanic where the odds are against you

I hit top 500 in gen 3 OU

I enjoy both talking about and bitching about comp. Frankly it'd be odd for anyone to just do one or the other

>>57956056
The Gen 4 OU council is actually filled with Jirachi and Latias waifufags who don't want to see their waifus banned so Machamp had to get the boot.

Furries were a mistake

>>57955924
>>57955965
You pagan blasphemers, M*ganium is responsible for EVERYTHING that is wrong with Pokemon. This beyond unholy manifestation of Ba'al is solely responsible for Garchomp's downfall from OU.

M*ganium is responsible for:
- gen 9's power creep
- the dex cut
- ORAS removing the Battle Frontier
- S*antler
- S*murott
- Z*bstrika
- H*sui with the tranny genie and Goodra wearing a diaper
- boring cartoon animals like Aerodactyl
- the games losing their SOVL
- DEI and trannies starting with gen 6
- Rock type Pokemon being allowed to exist thanks to trannies

>>57956159
Elaborate please, I want to be enlightened

>>57955808
Man, UU Chomp was sick. He fucking ran that tier, I think by the time it got banned, it had an almost 60% usage rate.

>>57956167
Donald Trump told me this in a dream after I donated some Bitcoin to him.

>>57956169
Garchomp didn't even receive a nerf from Gen 8 when it was a top 10 Pokemon -- sometimes top 5 -- for most of the gen. And yet it plummeted to UU. Lando-T almost fell too, he was saved by just 2k games out of 5 million.

That's how crazy powercreep has been. But also Enamorus kinda shits on Garchomp.

What would the respective metas look like if you cut out ALL the legendary pokemon? Which gen do you think would be the most interesting? I think gens 2 and 6 would look the most interesting personally

>>57956228
>fortunate kitten
>it ain’t landorus starts playing

>>57956118
i thought it was all BKC pulling the strings

>>57956056
Gen 4 is just hilariously shit. From everything to the games and to the meta. It was always shit. Even gen 5 at launch was better, and that was such a shitshow

>>57956267
Isnt it smogon higher ups saying "we dont want to complex ban shit" or something. I remember smogon being like a 5 layer burrito of autism

>>57956247
Mass suicide with zero semblance of irony the very moment tryhards find out that they can't use Xerneas, Urshifu, Calyrex, or Miraidon (with false allegations of Game Freak supposedly forcing Dewgong, Stantler, Camerupt, Rampardos, Unfezant, Aurorus, Lurantis, Theivul, and Squawkabilly on them (this is literally worse than the Holocaust)).

>>57956267
>>57956281
1. BKC wants to fuck Jirachi and Latias
2. The no-complex-ban thing is why Machamp got the boot, but there's nothing to complex ban on Jirachi or Latias. They're just blatantly too powerful for the tier.
3. BKC isn't the only council member. It was one of the other members sperging out about Snow Cloak Froslass that got her banned, for example.

>>57956247
A lot of metas would end up being worse without Zapdos, Heatran, and Landorus-T, unironically. Gen 2 would be dogshit without the legendary Electric types unless you also banned Cloyster, Gengar, and Snorlax.

The only meta that'd be improved by their absence is Gen 4. Zapdos and Celebi would be sorely missed, but Heatran, Jirachi, Suicune, and Latias are menaces in that gen. The meta would lose a lot of bulky Pokemon and Gyarados might also have to be banned, but otherwise it'd dramatically improve as more stall breakers would be viable. You might even see Staraptor break into OU proper as a strong anti-Clefable tech. You'd also see Infernape become one of the most used Pokemon in the meta again.

>>57956281
they are still mindbroken from the drizzleswim ban that they don't want to do another complex ban

>>57956394
With the current state of Gen 5 OU it might be worthwhile to unban Swift Swim, Sand Rush, and Chlorophyll alongside Cloyster, and Reshiram

>>57956274
deranged bort

>>57956075
>I hit top 500 in gen 3 OU
that ain't shit
even top 15 is still a nobody
hit top 10 then brag

>>57956247
Competitive Pokemon without legendaries would be heaven and as god intended. Gen III OU would be nothing short of glorious with all legendaries banned.

Gen 1 OU wouldn't change at all. More Water types prompting more Electric types (Jolteon, *Starmie) prompting more Ground types. It'd quickly consolidate into the same thing in essence.

>>57956381
>Gen 2 would be dogshit without the legendary Electric types
you sound like one of those people who complains about how stally it is, but here spouting nonsense about one of the main offenders which is making it "stally"

>The only meta that'd be improved by their absence is Gen 4.
dumb bullshit, you should play more, fraud

>>57955629
>>perceived decline in quality of the games
The decline is very apparent. The focus has obviously shifted from being an RPG to railroading the player into online pvp.

>>57956439
rain is the only completely braindead shit, politoed is a useless pile of shitmon that only sees uses by the virtues of drizzle and enabling other bullshit like keldeo to just mindlessly click scald/hydro, sun at least takes a lot of skill and maneuvering to play even with chlorophyll unbanned
>reshiram
would be latios but even more AIDS, bad idea

>>57955629
don’t forget the fat meta trannies that make homosexual posts like yours

>>57956513
Not for Gen 3. Gen 3 is an active enough ladder that top 200 is impressive, roughly equivalent of top 500 in Current Gen OU.

>>57955355
it would make the ability worse/less centralizing and result in a more offensive meta

>>57956563
Reshiram would be great for Sun teams and wouldn't be any less manageable than Kyurem B. 90 speed tier plus it dying to the game of rocket tag going on in Weather Wars would keep it in check. It's also Stealth Rock weak and easily gets OHKO'd by common Pokemon on Sand and Rain.

>252 SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Keldeo Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Reshiram in Rain: 295-348 (86.5 - 102%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Obviously a guaranteed* OHKO if you use Hydro Pump

*accuracy notwithstanding

Latios, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Salamence, and Haxorus can all also easily counter it. However, it gives Sun a really good revenge killer which Sun needs.

>>57956685
Check, not counter. Nothing is switching into Reshiram and forcing it out besides maybe Blissey/Chansey?

>>57956702
Yeah, nothing safely switches into it, but it also has trouble getting in itself thanks to 90 base speed, Stealth Rock weakness, and weaknesses to Rock, Dragon, and Ground with a neutrality to Water. The point of dropping it would be to give Sun a way to force progress, particularly against Sand Psyspam (Reuniclus gets fucked)

>>57956664
>Gen 3 is an active enough ladder that top 200 is impressive
maybe among your fellow low and mid ladderers

>>57956513
>>57956759
its so weird you show up in every thread and are also the reason shit always dies. like you clearly want to talk about the game but can't help that you are a deeply horrendous person.

>>57956944
Considering I only talk about Gen III OU, and that you are clearly the only one who obsessively and incessantly bitches about me, I can assure you that you are deluded by deep insecurity. You spend more time seething about whatever I say than trying to process it. And again, it's just you and your one buttbuddy who has a problem with it.

>>57956513
It might not be shit, but its huge for someone like me

What you need to have to have a competent Gen 9 team:
>Some form of priority
>A Kingmabit check (Zamazenta, Moltres, Dondozo, Iron Valiant)
>An Iron Valiant check (G-Slowking, Alomomola, Toxapex, Gholdengo)
>Some form of hazard removal that can somewhat handle Gholdengo (Great Tusk, Iron Treads, Hawlucha, Cinderace, G-Weezing)
>A Zamazenta check (Pecharunt, G-Weezing, Moltres, Gholdengo, Dragapult, Lando-T)

I hate this meta so much

>>57957783
And then you lose to Gliscor anyway

>>57957783
Why not play the real one?

>>57957783
>needing hazard removal
Stop being so bad

>>57956513
Its infinitely higher than your unranked faggot self.

Can someone make a competitor to showdown that isn’t run by trannies

>>57957808
>Just pay the 37.5% switch-in tax + poison and -1 speed tip

What are some abilities you'd like to see exist?
Most of mine concern redirection because Follow Me(+2 Priority) has no counter play really except brute force and brute force spread moves. Indeedee is one of the most obnoxious pokemon imaginable. Rage Powder(only +1) by comparison is manageable.
>an ability that ignores redirection entirely (what Keen Eye should be)
>an ability that is just redirection for as long as that pokemon is on the field

>>57957859
>an ability that ignores redirection entirely (what Keen Eye should be)
Stalwart
Propeller Tail

>>57957866
Evidently we just need better distribution of it.

>>57957666
it's fine to get excited about for example hitting 1400s for the first time, but don't mistake your personal milestone for objective renownable accomplishment

>>57957831
I wish

>>57958059
What a terrible attitude. You should be celebrating small wins, not constantly comparing your achievements with others.

>>57955339 (OP)
When were you ever able to do that? Back in the day it was nonstop m-muh evasion shitposting towards smogon which finally ended up being compounded by verlis. Then it was fanfic meta, then campaignshitter, etc. People here suck ass at comp.

>>57958075
you should have a sense of perspective
thinking top 500 means something in gen 3 ou is not having perspective

>>57958083
sounds like based discourse to me

>>57958083
The evasion discourse was never that bad since you could point out that evasion is just a form of stall.

>>57958158
Maybe if those people were actually arguing in good faith.

>>57958162
Sure, but it was pretty simple to just troll them back until they gave up and left. Calling them butthurt stallfags usually pissed them off enough to quit posting.

does it really count as playing pokemon when you basically always play with and against the same 20-30 mons?

>>57958170
That's what lower tiers are for. You could also bring lower tier Pokemon to higher tiers. Everything from NU to UU is usable in OU while not being dead weight. The NU/RU Pokemon just take a bit more skill to teambuild around.

>>57958170
That’s just comp in general. If you want to win it all eventually boils down to a numbers game.

>>57958170
>you basically always play with and against the same 20-30 mons
not in gen 3 ou

Gen 9 OU is unironically the best OU to date as long as you're prepared for Iron Valiant, Zamazenta, Raging Bolt, and Kingambit.

>>57958231
>sleep? le banned
>baton pass? le banned
>trapping? le banned
>legendaries? galore

>>57958251
Good
Good
Good
Good

>>57957859
Modify Corrosion to allow poison type attacks to hit steel types like Scrappy does, and give it to a couple other Pokémon.

>>57957859
I'd like an ability that gives a boost if you run <4 move slots.

>>57958387
Sounds like a better candidate for an attack.

>>57956228
Garchomp did get a slight nerf though. Losing toxic and roar made it far worse as a specially defensive rocker, which was one of its best sets in late SS, and is its best role in SV Natdex. The only new tool it got (beyond tera) is spikes, along with some niche coverage like liquidation and thunderfang.
Same with Lando, his utility movepool got gutted. Losing explosion, knock off, his double dance sets with rock polish, DEFOG, and toxic are massive cuts. It got taunt, which is nice, but it went from a pokemon that could do whatever you needed it to do, to a strong offensive or defensive pivot.

>>57958588
I suppose TankChomp got nerfed slightly, but getting Spikes was a huge buff in exchange for losing Toxic.

I don't know why Game Freak won't give Garchomp DDance.

>>57959012
Spikes is a huge buff (it feels like everything gets it now), but I still think it would trade it for toxic. Having two types of hazards is nice, but being able to put fat pokemon on a timer and also being SE against the two types that are immune to it is such a useful tool.
At this point, I assume that it's racism. That, or they realize that DD is one of the only things Flygon still has that Chomp doesn't,

>>57959073
>(it feels like everything gets it now)
That'd be because an extra 52 Pokemon lines got Spikes in Gen 9.

It feels weird that Garchomp's primary role is for it to be a support Pokemon considering its stats. But with Enamorus flying around, Garchomp has a hard counter against its setup set. Iron Valiant also fucks it over too since Booster Valiant outspeeds +1 Chomp.

will showdown get killed by pokemon champions?

>>57959551
i'd be surprised if it does, champions is definitely going to be paywalled

>>57959551
Unlikely. Believe it or not, people actually like the Smogon ruleset. No one wants to play 3v3 singles with Flutter Mane and friends.

>>57958059
Yeah I dont think im a great gen 3 player by any means, but im just surprised that I was personally able to get that high when I refuse to run fag pokemon like Celebi Jirachi Blissey and Swampert

>anti wogerpon propaganda by finch
please don't, walking wake in the sun or rain would be completely bullshit

Still playing randbats.
Shan't be playing an OU tier where D*rkr*i is legal. Simple as.
>b-but it's not broken without sleep!
I don't care.

>>57960490
Wogerpon does really fuck over Rain teams though. As a Rain-fag, I kinda want her ass to get clapped to ubers.

>>57960597
What does Rain even do without Archaludon

>what does rain do
Lets Kyogre destroy the two other mons on the field, lets Pelipper rip hurricanes over and over, makes Urshifu's surging strikes pick up KOs it would otherwise miss. Makes Thunder 100% accurate too. As noted, Archaludon uses electro shot repeatedly, but it's not actually seeing that much use.
Its best utility is the defensive bonuses by shutting off other weather though. Shuts down Koraidon, protosynthesis, and Groudon.

>>57960522
just killed a darkrai with a lugia in randbats

>>57960608
Miss Ferrothorn, Mega-Swampert, and Seismitoad.

It's nice using Tornadus-T without the accuracy issue. Barraskewda basically solves all speed control issues since it outspeeds Regieleki in the rain.

>>57960640
>Veggie Sea

>>57960678
Singles mindset is the virgin mindset.

>>57960608
cucks the protosynthesis mons in doubles and cucks sun teams in singles (it can backfire thanks to walking wake however) alongside some good old waterspam

>>57960687
Says the cuck beholden to whatever a corporation tells him to play.

>mid ladder gen 3 OU
>it's just blissey/rachi/zapdos paraspam faggotry most of the time and some ninjask teams here and there
i'm so tired brah....

>>57960702
Who's running sun in OU lil bro

>>57960755
it's still the easiest way to reach 1600s from the bottom

So when do we get "battle armor" as a defensive held item as a counterpart to AV?
>>57960719
Hearing a lot of complaints about Jirachi and the dragon jets, how are they a problem nigga like close your eyes, turn off the computer.

Ogersisters...

>>57960785
Hopefully never. Counterparts make the game boring. It's as creatively bankrupt as Frostbite just being a special version of Burn.

>>57960800
>the absolute state of serperior
>Blissey can’t even cut it in UU anymore
What the fuck

>>57960800
my goat scizor :)

>>57960813
Ice types suddenly become far more useful(relative, not absolute) if frostbite exists. I'm down for it.
The number of pokemon with good SpDef stats that are made invalid by poor Def would love to have some kind of def held item.

>>57960687
6v6 singles is the only good format in Gen 9.

>>57960800
Slither GODS we're back in the game

>>57960813
special attackers do need to be nerfed, back then you can just slap chansey/blissey or whatever but nowadays special attackers can muscle through them

>>57960800
TINKATRANNIES BTFO
AHAHAHAH
75 75 75 75 75 75

We told you it was a meme 'mon that had no real use being in OU.

Shame about Serperior dropping to RU, though. Hidden Power getting nixxed really fucked he/him over.

>>57960800
>Scizor went from being a B-rank Pokemon in UU to a bonafide OU Pokemon
You love to see it. She's such a cute bug.

>>57960828
>>57960813
The point of Frostbite is to get rid of Freeze since Freeze is the worst designed status in the series. There's a reason it's only ever a 10/20% chance attached to Ice type moves. It'd be busted if you could inflict Freeze otherwise since there is no guaranteed way to thaw without items.

>>57960835
Special attackers are nerfed by Blissey existing and having shit movepools. Widespread distribution of Nasty Plot was a mistake.

>>57960800
Who's gonna be the next bulky poison to rise like 20 tiers in 1 month. It's happened twice so far.

>>57960830
>support mons are good, news at 11

>>57960875
Alolan-Muk.

>Dark/Poison type gives it key resistances to Dark, Ghost, Poison, and Grass with an immunity to Psychic and only 1 weakness (Ground)
>Poison Touch lets it pressure Pokemon even with no offensive investment with its 60% poison chance Poison Jab
>Gets Poison Fang for spreading Toxic too
>Kept Knock Off despite a lot of other Pokemon losing it
>105/75/100 defenses are actually very good with investment
>Drain Punch lets it heal even with Assault Vest
>Gets Snarl to further shit on Special Attackers

Important positive matchups:
>Can 1v1 Iron Moth with Knock Off even if it's Booster Moth
>Can freely switch into Alomomola and threaten it and whatever it switches into with Poison Jab/Fang, obviously wins the 1v1 as well
>Completely shits on Darkrai
>Can cripple certain Zamazenta sets that aren't equipped to deal with constant reapplications of Toxic/Poison
>Can counter-lead Deoxys-S and Samurott-H (needs to have some Defense/Attack investment + Drain Punch for Hamurott)
>Fucks up Enamorus that don't Tera Ground
>252 SpA Iron Crown Tachyon Cutter (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 80-96 (19.3 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO
>40 Atk Muk-Alola Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Crown: 228-270 (71 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Oh, and it can 1v1 Garganacl with its Drain Punch set as long as Garg doesn't Tera Ghost.

>>57960522
There has been this super obsession with legendary Pokemon in singles, especially lately. The most egregious examples was the unbanning of Zamazenta because for some reason people believed gen 9 had this shortage of options, gen 7 Magearna made the format way worse in practically every way, and shit like gen 4 Jirachi's continued existence being allowed despite the fact that even assuming your sets werent running any form of thunder body slam or iron head the pokemon exists simply to consistently fish for some ideal 20% crippling status

>>57960956
If Garg changes to a ghost, it can just get knocked off repeatedly.

>>57960956
I forgot it also gets Ice Punch as a way to punk those bitch-ass Gliscor and Lando-T switch-ins.

>>57960830
Has VGC ever been considered diverse? You used to see a lot of shitposting about Landorus in smogon and how VGC rewarded creativity, but they both seem to have the same overuse.

>>57960963
The matchup gets pretty spotty since Garg is immune to status and can heal off Knock Off damage while Muk succumbs to salt. You can still win the matchup if you Knock Off right as they Tera and put them on the backfoot.

>>57960983
There are years for sure.
When the meta is less powerful it opens up room to run less than optimal mons if they do something slightly different than the metamon. There really cool situational strategies that are only truly viable when you're not going to get 1 shot by an extremely powerful mon.
Double and single restricteds, are just not conducive to variety. That's not to say that some mons can't do interesting things, but it's definitely more difficult.

>>57960747
>it's just blissey/rachi/zapdos paraspam faggotry most of the time and some ninjask teams here and there
I never understood why smogon banned BP until I played against subhuman gen 3 ninjask teams. They arent even good or fun, hell idk if they are even viable at the highest levels of play. All it does is make running meme below 1400 elo teams feel unfun

>>57960956
Hot damn you were right. Muk is super good in the current meta.

>>57961114

>Be in a position to win
>Darkrai flinches me to death with Dark Pulse
>Lose

>>57961004
So basically it just depends on if the power crept garbage is allowed in the meta? Does smogon have the same variety at times?

>>57961413
Smogon tries to avoid "over-centralization" by banning Pokemon that kill team diversity whether they're overpowered or not.

You can see what Smogon singles metas look like when they don't do that. Tauros has a >90% usage rate in Gen 1. Snorlax has a 99% usage rate in Gen 2. Tyranitar has a 60% usage rate in Gen 3. Smogon actively tries to avoid that kind of centralization in newer metas while leaving the old gen metas mostly intact.

In more recent gens, the "tier king" of OU is typically around 30 - 35% usage rate, and it's usually a Ground-type glue-mon like Landorus-T, Excadrill, or Great Tusk.

>>57961434
For example, here's Gen 9 OU.

>>57961439
So then why is Gen 3 OU called a good meta nowadays then if it has Tyranitar at 60% usage?

>>57961448
because tyranitar is cool and based and everyone loves him while the meta mons of today are ugly and gay and people hate feeling forced to use them

>>57961448
Tyranitar serves an important role as a Pursuit Trapper that keeps the Psychic and Ghost types from being too overpowered. You wouldn't want to play a meta where Gengar wasn't fearful of Tyranitar trapping it.

>>57957859
>Most of mine concern redirection because Follow Me(+2 Priority) has no counter play really except brute force and brute force spread moves. Indeedee is one of the most obnoxious pokemon imaginable. Rage Powder(only +1) by comparison is manageable.
Exists, it’s just not as good as the other ability on whatever has it
The other stuff you want is just lightning rod and storm drain but better

>>57961448
Most good teams have an answer for Tyranitar because of its bajillion weaknesses. Ground, Water, Fighting, Grass, Steel, and sometimes even a stray Bug type attack from Heracross or Forretress will do massive damage to it if not outright kill it.

That being said, it still handles Ghost, Normal, Psychic, Dark, and Fire type attacks very handily and can run a ton of different sets. Dragon Dance, Pursuit Trap, etc. Tyranitar is the strongest Pokemon in the tier, but it's got plentiful counters that keep it from spiraling out of control, especially Swampert and Dugtrio.

Imagine how cool VGC would be if there was a move that gave +2 evasion to both the user and their teammate.

>>57956586
dangerously based

>>57961581
>>57961615
Does Gen 3 have its share of variety despite Tyranitar or is it centralized like some VGC metas?

>>57961886
Gen 3 is very diverse. You can even get away without using TTar as a good % of the playerbase do. Rain teams are somewhat viable, for example, but they do require manually setting Rain and you can't let up the pressure or Tyranitar is going to switch in and change the weather to Sand.

Sand doesn't boost Rock types' SpD by 50% until Gen 4, so Tyranitar is very vulnerable on the Special side. That gives every team style an out vs Tyranitar whether it's Dugtrio, Metagross, Swampert, Suicune, Zapdos, or even Regice. And yes, Regice is very much viable in Gen 3.

>>57961886
Tyranitar's usage has dropped significantly over the years even though it is still #1. The gap between it and Metagross has definitely shrunk. The power level is also low enough that there are a large number of viable, though not often seen, Pokemon.

>>57958387
>>57958397
>an attack
Fuck that noise. Make it a hold item. Make another one that boosts your stats if all your moves are the same type.

>>57960962
>B-B-B-B-BUT MUH ARTICUNO IS... LE SHIT!!!!
Oh right how silly of me, I forgot about this completely flawless justification for letting the actually good legendaries ruin the game for everyone.

>>57961019
ninjask is a noob magnet at the end of the day, that some good players can make a near perfect team revolving ninjask without just mindlessly slapping 5 sweepers alongside it. funny thing is pre BP nerf it was completely chaotic, autists used to make a whole chain with cradily and mr mime alongside a sand attack user or two, it gets funny at that point because it becomes clear that these people's main goal isn't to win but to troll you

>>57961843
Are you just talking about minimize, baton pass Drifblim, then Psyche Up Mewtwo?

>>57962374
Articuno actually did well in one of the recent vgc metas.
Was it Reg H?
Can't recall.

>>57955629
Special Stat Split always ends up coming up as a point of contention too solely because of how long faggots have been bitching about the PSS.

>>57962112
Reminder that Scizor is also UUBL in gen 3 despite its best moves being (aside from Swords Dance obv) Steel Wing, fucking Silver Wind, and Hidden Power Ghost.
Take all gen 3 UUBLs with a massive grain of salt.

>>57962397
Kek imagine a Special stat with today's movepool bloat. There'd be no such thing as a dedicated special wall cus they'd all also fire off special nukes.

Later gens in theory should be more diverse by virtue of the fact that there are more pokemon with more niches to play with but instead its fringe pokemon with sub 500 BST trying to swim with the bloated BST pokemon

>>57962453
Indeedee(f) has an ability and move so valuable that despite having 475bst, it sees usage on 6% of teams in a double restricted format.

>>57962383
Yeah, I feel like its continued existence is just made to piss people off as opposed to add to the meta.

>>57962475
Yeah that is a part of the fringe use sub 500 bst pokemon. There are some like Quagsire and Clefable too obviously and most regenerator pokemon

>>57962484
Kyogre probably isn't common enough in the current meta, but Gastrodon with storm drain occupies that same space.

>>57961448
Please do math bro.

~60% usage = only ~3/5 games where someone brings one, and it's very unlikely you'll get the same set 3 times in a row (unless you're the one bringing it)

>>57961843
that'd be a signature move of a shitmon

>>57961886
>Does Gen 3 have its share of variety despite Tyranitar
Gen 3 OU is the most diverse OU of all time and you literally never have to run Tyranitar under any circumstance if you don't want to

>>57962477
Your feeling would be wrong. Ninjask has every right to continue to exist in the tier to enable Speedpass as any other mon in it.

Some Ninjask users are assholes yes, but these assholes tend not to be the best players and are very much beatable.

If you lose to Ninjask teams consistently, you just use bad teams and/or are a bad player.

>>57962394
>Articuno actually did well in one of the recent vgc metas.
Regulation F: Minor legendaries.

>>57962397
The special stat split is never discussed here.

>>57962652
Because no one wants to admit it was an absolute dogshit decision that failed to nerf those it was supposed to balance out (Mewtwo and Alakazam) and instead nerfed everyone else, making the problem children even more problematic.

>>57962410
Gen 3 UUBL is a consequence of lower tier councils deliberately keeping the metagames they lord over stagnant and uninteresting. They've done the same thing to UUBL now with banning Speedpass and all sorts of needless regulations that make UU a boring tier nobody wants to play even as Gen 3 OU has exploded. Too many people want to make Gen 3 OU the same boring meta with no alternative tactics like the later gen OU's which suffered from such policies and are vastly less popular than it.

Ironic how dumb Smogon manchildren are, isn't it? They're exactly like emigrating Californians.

>>57962658
Are they actually? Would really suck given that gen 3 OU seems to be really popular right now.

>>57962655
>was an absolute dogshit decision
I think you haven't played enough oldgens if that's your honest assessment.

>failed to nerf those it was supposed to balance out (Mewtwo and Alakazam)
First, from my understanding of Gen 2 Ubers, Mewtwo isn't even the top dog. Tyranitar exists which makes the lives of many Psychic types difficult because of its Rock/Dark typing and STAB Pursuit off 95 SpAtk.
Second, in Gen 2 OU, neither Alakazam (135 SpA) nor Espeon (130 SpA) are tiered as OU nor even often brought. Perhaps they would be better if their SpDef was the same value, but the lack of that is not the primary reason why they are merely demiviable. If it is true that in a sense the split "failed" to nerf them, that would in another way be a good thing because they were already nerfed by the introduction of Dark and Steel, to such a level that you have to actively think and weigh opportunity costs in order to bring them to battles with a chance of success.

>instead nerfed everyone else
The only mons I can think of which received harsh nerfs on account of the split are Chansey and Hypno. As far as I can think, nobody else was unfairly impacted. Note the keyword there.

>making the problem children even more problematic
Again, that's false, considering the very next gen maintained their middling status created here.

>>57962689
Some people want Sand Attack or accuracy lowering moves banned because they don't like losing to Sand Attack Ninjask.
Some people want Speedpass banned because they don't like losing to Speedpass Ninjask.
A few people say Suicune should be banned because they don't like losing to lastmon Suicune.
Some people say Arena Trap should be banned because they don't like losing to Dugtrap.

Crybabies with 0 self-awareness, which makes up Smogon's fanbase, will always try to police others' fun for the sake of their own rather than accept the metagame as it is and try to make the most of it and do their best in it. If they're not seeing success, it's everyone else's fault, in their mind. And that mentality is what led to every other OU becoming dwarfed in popularity by Gen 3 OU, which is a annually fading oasis thanks to all the damage these refugees insist on wreaking upon the tier. If I wrote you a list of everything that's been banned in the past 5 years that was considered okay for the ~20 years prior, you wouldn't believe it.

>>57962707
ninjask is piss easy to handle without sand attack, desu my main gripes with gen 3 OU is the inconsistent policy regarding evasions, there's no reason to ban sand veil and double team/minimize while allowing sand attack, either ban evasion manipulating moves and abilities altogether or unban sand veil and double team/minimize since sand attack is legal anyways

>>57962748
>there's no reason to ban sand veil and double team/minimize while allowing sand attack
just switch out you dumbass nigga

>>57962748
Sand attack can be negated by switching out on your own. It forces a switch similarly to something like Yawn or confusion. You can't do anything about the opponent setting up evasion.

>>57962769
>encouraging switching
vile

>>57962859
Smogonfaggots looove switching doh :think:

>>57962865
honestly, tpci oughta threaten Showdown with a ransom of permanently unbanning all trapping abilities

>>57962871
trapping is fine as long as it's limited on shitmons, dug was fine for the most part on older gens because it was weak and couldn't even ohko ttar let alone any fatmons then GF buffed its attack stat for no reason

>>57962945
Trapping is fine as long as it's limited to only one type. That's why no one calls for the banning of Magnezone.

>>57962977
i was talking about the all-trapping abilities, but yeah good point

>>57962945
>>57962977
Trapping is always fine, because we need to prevent switching. Hazards are cucked because of bootspam
Unban hazards and/or item clause smoggies

>>57962707
>no don't change anything to make the game better and more fun goyim, just consume the slop and be happy goyim

>>57963016
Trapping was never fine because it disproportionately helps out the stall that /vp/ hates.

>>57957859
Make the auto hit moves hit ignore redirection. Also either make them hit through protect or buff their damage.

As for abilities I wish Normalize wasn't on an absolute shitter like Delcatty. Make Frisk have an effect to disable opponents items for a turn so it has a use with open team sheet. Likewise make Anticipation give a measure of damage reduction against super effective attacks, can make it so it is a greater reduction then Solid Rock or Filter but only triggers once.

>>57962707
Only Ninjask should be banned, because it isnt even good at any level of play. It is almost always completely undermined by a roar skarm, and nigger faggot ninjask users leave at the first sign of their opponent having fun. It adds nothing to the game and it holds back experimentation more than it allows for fringe strategies.

The rest of the shit is unironic skill issue.
>>57962646
It has nothing to do with running bad teams, it has everything to do with having fun. People run bots that strictly exist to run ninjask teams, because you can play them on auto pilot, its a flow chart. Its what they do. Its not fun, its not engaging. Any actual accomplished player, hell even a lot of non accomplished ones, can have a 95% win-rate against ninjask teams at the bare minimum. You arent trying to position yourself in a way in which you can win when you play against a ninjask team because you know what your opponent is going to do, so you are already positioned if you know what you are doing, its just a matter of clicking the right buttons as you follow the ninjask player's flowchart level plays and then watch as they alt+f4 when you undermine their strategy. You can put me up against 20 different ninjask teams in a row. I will beat them all. Put me against nothing but ninjask teams all the way to the tippy top of the ladder and I might beat all but the best players. That shit doesnt actually matter when it makes team building and actually playing the game significantly less fun. Hell Soundproof strategies died because of ninjask.