Ash's journey should have ended here.
It would have been a happier ending.

>>57974077 (OP)
Ash's battle with Drake was the best battle in the series, that's how you build up a boss fight, it took most of Ash's Pokemon to take down the Dragonite because it was rightfully portrayed as immensely powerful instead of just another run of the mill mon

>>57974077 (OP)
Orange Islands get slept on because it's "filler", despite the fact that it gave Ash some of the best character development he had and the writers actually tried to innovate the series.

>>57974077 (OP)
Yea, it would have been great. Everything went right and it was a vindication over the Kanto tournament. Even the Legend of Raikou OVA would have been a good way to do Johto.

>>57974100
Still funny to see it when you fully understand the rules of the games.

And it had a fun movie.

>>57974077 (OP)
>Poké Ride
>Island challenge: Captain trial
>The Pokémon Musical
>Double Battle
>Change of terrain in the middle of battle
Damn GF owes a lot to Orange arc and it was just a filler

We got regional variants before we had regional variants.

>>57974338
Too much water.

>>57974077 (OP)
*OS instead

Speaking of regional variants.

>>57974552
fuck, Zapdos was so cool in this movie

>>57974534
>>57974552
>>57974570
>>57974636
>>57974680
This was the peak SOVL of the anime.

god damn. the filler didn't need to go that hard

>>57974680
Samson Oak inspiration

>>57975822
Lana's mom inspiration

>>57975861

>>57974667
I always compare this season to Alola and it seems like a lot since Ash was always on the move in the Orange Islands. Alola could have been the same way but they stuck Ash and Co into a school.

By the way, GS BALL WHEN!? YOU THINK I FORGOT?

>>57975986
>GS BALL
The fuck did GS mean?

>>57974077 (OP)
I'll never understand the appeal of this battle. Ash dominates him for the whole fight up until Dragonite just to have his whole team get obliterated until Charizard finally does the bulk of the work and allow Pikachu to take the win. Yeah, it shows Dragonite as strong, but it's at the expense of making this guy look like a dogshit trainer by only training one of his Pokemon. Alain does this better much later on by having the whole battle feel engaging. It isn't just Alain sacking 5 Pokemon and then soloing Ash with Mega Charizard X.

>>57976330
I call Gen 1 privileges. I remember when Orange Islands happened, Dragonite was a massive rumor in school.
Go to X, talk to why, visit Z. But those who knew to use the Super Rod in the Safari Zone were smug about it, and only a few shared the info.

>>57976330
>Alain does this better much later on by having the whole battle feel engaging.
No he doesn't, his fight is one of the ones I have a problem with in particular because it didn't respect the mons either. He had 2 pseudos that both jobbed to Pikachu soloing them. The reason it would feel more engaging would be owed to the animation production value if anything, since XY had better visuals and movement.

>>57976388
>He had 2 pseudos that both jobbed to Pikachu soloing them.
This is a testimony to how strong Pikachu is and to show he was the real MVP of the battle despite Ash tunnelvisioning on Greninja the whole fight. This Pikachu also was able to stalemate a Latios back in Sinnoh so it's cool to actually see acknowledgement of its ability. Metagross also gave it a good fight so I don't know why you're dismissing it so easily. The rest of his team held up really well against Ash, particularly Bisharp.

Could you do it with this team?

This was always my dream match when I was a kid.

>>57976398
In both cases of Alain and Tobias, Pikachu getting as far as it did was a dirty knock against the mons it made faint. This is the same Pikachu that after double KOing with Latios, lost to starter Snivy just because it couldn't use electricity, when it would've been able to just push starter Snivy over to KO it. The Drake fight was supposed to show that Ash was a good trainer but even a good trainer struggles when up against a monolith of a Pokemon like a pseudo, who was shown flying as fast as a jet plane with turn on a dime control. Tyranitar is another monolith of a mon that can destroy mountains and they used it as 1st mon fodder. Metagross giving Pikachu a 'good fight' is pretty meaningless considering any other weaker Pokemon could have been inserted there to give a good fight for the sake of scripted tension just to lose. Instead, they shamed 2 pseudos. Back during Gen 1, Dragonite had way more of a scary mysticism to it with the lighthouse episode and Drake mastering one. That has long since been forgotten and they treat pseudos like any other mon, or worse. I'm pretty sure there's a Dragonite meme video in circulation somewhere mocking its wacky faints from Gen 5 onward.

>>57976510
>This is the same Pikachu that after double KOing with Latios, lost to starter Snivy just because it couldn't use electricity, when it would've been able to just push starter Snivy over to KO it.
This is because they did Ash dirty in the entirety of BW's anime. This continued all the way throughout the league where he lost to a guy who didn't even know he could bring 6 Pokemon. Pikachu also didn't stalemate Latios from matching its power, it stalemated Latios by using its ingenuity, such as when it got all those free attacks off of it while on its back.
>The Drake fight was supposed to show that Ash was a good trainer but even a good trainer struggles when up against a monolith of a Pokemon like a pseudo
And it fails when his opponent can only so much as faint Lapras until he gets his only good Pokemon out. Drake isn't like Alain, so we don't have a whole series of episodes and specials to build him up. Alain's team actually giving Ash a fight without him having to use the Pokemon that we already know is overpowered is a good way to show Alain himself is a good trainer. Drake just looks like a shitter with Dragonite itself being the only one to look good from this.
>Tyranitar is another monolith of a mon that can destroy mountains and they used it as 1st mon fodder. Metagross giving Pikachu a 'good fight' is pretty meaningless considering any other weaker Pokemon could have been inserted there to give a good fight for the sake of scripted tension just to lose.
Tyranitar had the misfortune of fighting Ash's strongest Pokemon. Pikachu fainting to anything less than Charizard 1v1 would be nonsense so Metagross actually showing it could contend with Pikachu is actually an impressive showing.
>Drake mastering one.
And forgetting that battles are meant to be 6v6. He'd lose a lot less if he had an actual team and not a group of shitters and one powerhouse.

>>57976538
I also want to add that Metagross makes the most sense to be used as the Pokemon that contends with Pikachu because it was actually Alain's second most built up Pokemon at that point. It's even shown capable of nearly sweeping entire other contestents in the league by itself.

>>57976330
Nostalgiatards.
Any and all praise about OG anime is nostalgiatards who've never rewatched the anime ever in their life.
If you go back and re-watch the OG you realize how much of a fucking mess it was. It makes shitneys look like a msterpiece in comparison.

>>57976566
People like it because it was a mess. It's charming and not artificial like newer seasons.

>>57976538
>Pikachu also didn't stalemate Latios from matching its power, it stalemated Latios by using its ingenuity, such as when it got all those free attacks off of it while on its back.
Literally what was done to finally beat Dragonite since Pikachu landed outside of its reach.
>And it fails when his opponent can only so much as faint Lapras until he gets his only good Pokemon out.
>And forgetting that battles are meant to be 6v6.
You aren't giving Ash's team enough credit. What you're glossing over here is that unlike in Gens 4 and 6, Pikachu wasn't around that long, so his other Pokemon were much closer to its level. So they were demonstrating their own prowess. Bulbasaur, Charizard, and Squirtle were all veterans. Tauros was closer to Charizard in just being naturally strong and wild. Besides, the main reason they chose Lapras to faint early was so that Ash's matchup would be more dire without that helpful matchup against Dragonite.
>Tyranitar had the misfortune of fighting Ash's strongest Pokemon. Pikachu fainting to anything less than Charizard 1v1 would be nonsense so Metagross
It was already nonsense for doing that. You're relieved it didn't dishonor Pikachu but like was said, it already got dishonored plenty throughout the anime so all they did was freshly hurt the image of Tyranitar and Metagross by making them job together in the same battle when the script could've subbed them in for other weaker mons that could still put up a fight but job. This is the anime. Alain could've even sent out a tough NFE.

>>57976566
If by mess you mean not overly sanitized or put through a review committee lobotomizing the script 17 times before air like the later seasons were then no shit that's better

>>57976647
>Literally what was done to finally beat Dragonite since Pikachu landed outside of its reach.
After it bulldozed through Ash's whole team and was weakened by Charizard, sure. Latios was a much better execution of this and gave a better show for Pikachu in the end.
>>57976647
>You aren't giving Ash's team enough credit. What you're glossing over here is that unlike in Gens 4 and 6, Pikachu wasn't around that long, so his other Pokemon were much closer to its level. So they were demonstrating their own prowess. Bulbasaur, Charizard, and Squirtle were all veterans. Tauros was closer to Charizard in just being naturally strong and wild. Besides, the main reason they chose Lapras to faint early was so that Ash's matchup would be more dire without that helpful matchup against Dragonite.
Ash's team at this point isn't meant to be strong at all. Only Charizard was shown to be well above the rest at this point, which is why it makes Drake look all the worse to me. He was being dominated the whole battle against Kanto Ash. If you want to make Ash's victory hold meaning, then you need to make the person he is facing have meaning behind him, which the writer's failed to display with Drake.
>>57976647
>You're relieved it didn't dishonor Pikachu but like was said, it already got dishonored plenty throughout the anime
Besides BW's anime, Pikachu was shown to have been getting steady growth just like Ash had been. I'm not going to hold BW against Pikachu when the writer's made it clear that Pikachu was back on track for this during Kalos and at the very least returned to his glory he had during Sinnoh.
>This is the anime. Alain could've even sent out a tough NFE.
Kalos was an anime where trainers actually bothered evolving their Pokemon. Alain's team was also solid aside from the Unfezant, which still was allowed to have a good fight against Ash's Talonflame

>>57976647
>Literally what was done to finally beat Dragonite since Pikachu landed outside of its reach.
After it bulldozed through Ash's whole team and was weakened by Charizard, sure. Latios was a much better execution of this and gave a better show for Pikachu in the end.
>You aren't giving Ash's team enough credit. What you're glossing over here is that unlike in Gens 4 and 6, Pikachu wasn't around that long, so his other Pokemon were much closer to its level. So they were demonstrating their own prowess. Bulbasaur, Charizard, and Squirtle were all veterans. Tauros was closer to Charizard in just being naturally strong and wild. Besides, the main reason they chose Lapras to faint early was so that Ash's matchup would be more dire without that helpful matchup against Dragonite.
Ash's team at this point isn't meant to be strong at all. Only Charizard was shown to be well above the rest at this point, which is why it makes Drake look all the worse to me. He was being dominated the whole battle against Kanto Ash. If you want to make Ash's victory hold meaning, then you need to make the person he is facing have meaning behind him, which the writer's failed to display with Drake.
>You're relieved it didn't dishonor Pikachu but like was said, it already got dishonored plenty throughout the anime
Besides BW's anime, Pikachu was shown to have been getting steady growth just like Ash had been. I'm not going to hold BW against Pikachu when the writer's made it clear that Pikachu was back on track for this during Kalos and at the very least returned to his glory he had during Sinnoh.
>This is the anime. Alain could've even sent out a tough NFE.
Kalos was an anime where trainers actually bothered evolving their Pokemon. Alain's team was also solid aside from the Unfezant, which still was allowed to have a good fight against Ash's Talonflame

>>57976678
I think this will just keep going back and forth but you seem like a nice/sensible person unlike other conversations I've had here so I'll leave it at that instead of wasting more of our time getting nowhere outside of our stances, just a difference of fair opinions.

>>57976426
>Gen 1 Tauros

>>57976737
Yeah, no problem. There's not really any need to continue further if neither of us are going to budge. Good day.

>>57974077 (OP)
Yes. Yes it should have. I headcanon this with Ash running off to fuck Misty off-screen. It makes the anime so much better.

Ash served time in an Orange Island jail.

>>57976426
Yes? Gen 1 Tauros is strong as fuck.

>>57976832
Is it true what they say about jail time in the Orange Islands...?

>>57976878
You know what they say, what happens on the orange islands, stays on the orange islands.

https://img2.gelbooru.com/images/c7/ab/c7aba3d8223d9ad9dba7ccd273426811.png

>>57976330
>I'll never understand the appeal of this battle
>Ash dominates him for the whole fight up until Dragonite just to have his whole team

That's the point, that's why it was exciting. Up until that point, Dragonite was built through indirect references like the lighthouse shadow, the legendary sea Pokémon for Misty, or the legend of Safari zone, so expectations for him were high. Even before the fight, we get a glimpse of his power as he flies like a jet over the sea. Dragonite had all the makings of a final boss from a 90s arcade.

And the best part is that he delivered. Seeing how Ash's mastery was just an illusion, as well as seeing him sacrifice every single one of his Pokémon, even Charizard, a Pokémon that rarely showed its full power, all for one last lucky blow felt like a genuine achievement, exactly how many shonen series tend to build, like Goku vs. Pikolo fight or Luffy landing the final blow.

I'm not saying it's the fight of the century or that it's in the top ten anime, just that for the standards of the time and for the audience it was aimed at, it performed perfectly.

>>57975861
>>57975865
she was more like sima, kiawe mom, you know, actually busty

>>57977525
these were my favourite run of episodes as a kid

>>57977525
It was especially a jawdropping moment because Charizard's Seismic Toss was its signature finisher that cemented it as the strongest weapon in Ash's arsenal and Dragonite reversed it. Off the top, I think the only other Pokemon exempt from losing to it was Gary's Golem later on but that was only because it was too heavy to be lifted, which wasn't really an outplay and it still lost to Charizard anyway.

>>57974077 (OP)
:/ the show became an ad for the games/merch after this
Soulless

>>57976330
>I'll never understand the appeal of this battle. Ash dominates him for the whole fight up until Dragonite

Time to debunk this narrative. Drake nearly beats Ash Pikachu with Ditto, Draw with Lapras, compromised Ash Tauros forcing it him to switch it out. The battle weren't as one sided as you think and I'm glad the writers actually gave Taurous, and Lapras a good showing. Dragonite did it's job showing off how powerful of a threat it is.

As much as people love to praise Ash vs Paul, It was pure Infernape wankery, and Ash other mons didn't really had a good showing because of it.

Yes, but could you beat Drake's Dragonite with your slim 4 moves versus his 8+ moves?

>>57978884
absolute unit

>>57979016
Dragon tail?

>>57979016
>absolute unit

>>57974077 (OP)
No as Ash's rivalry with Gary was still unfinished and Orange Island is just anime exclusive that would never an actual league from the game.

>>57979036
I don't care Orange was chill and fun, while Johto was boring, forever remembered for killing Pokemania.

>>57976832
A YEAR IN THE JOINT TURNED YOU INTO A FUCKIN' PUSSY

>>57974077 (OP)
My only complaint is that for a mini tropical region it lacked girls in bikinis, I only remember Ivy showing off her voluptuous body to minors.

And that wasn't even a bikini!

>>57979175
The cat cult had some.

>Drake's Dragonite chases after you.

>>57979058
This. Also I’ll never forgive Johto for not evolving Totodile.

>>57974077 (OP)
>Ash's journey through proto-Hoenn/Sevii Islands to battle the non-union stand-ins for the Elite 4 he should have battled instead of the lame League tournament he's been made to take part in each season.
It was based beyond belief. The period between gen 1 and gen 2 when the anime had to stall for time was an interesting time to be a fan.

>>57979175
I had pretty girls.

>>57974338
Considering it was the season that Charizard got its act together, I can't see it as filler.

>>57979584
Proto Bonnie

>>57979471
>crazy cat ladies in anime

>Immune to water
>Weak to fire
What is its type?

>>57979671
Steel with Water Absorb

Hey guys, check out my Pidgey

Normal/Ground with thicc fat

Sacrifices speed for HP, few fly moves, but in exchange gains Gyro Ball

>>57974077 (OP)
>>57974570
>>57974636
Almost no one remembers this, but during the broadcast of that season in Japan, a set of cards based on southern islands came out and in them their Executor had a giant long neck.

>>57979874
I wish I could get that

>>57974570
>>57974636
Proto Fairy type and Contest

>>57979874
The long-necked Exeggutor came from the booster box artwork for Jungle.
THIS is the Exeggutor from Southern Islands.

>>57974077 (OP)
Not bad but it would have been better if he won the silver conference against Gary and then got relegated to a cameo every now and then. For some reason tpc thought it acceptable to do the same shit for 20 more seasons though.

>>57980835

Give them a new type(s) and HA

>>57982022
Bonus points if you can give they an interesting dex entry