>no you can't sleep
>no you can't bright powder
>no double team
>no you can't use both unova Zoroark AND Hisuian Zoroark
>no you can't use one hit KO moves
>can't use moody
>no you can't have fun
what a bunch of pussies.

>>57979523 (OP)
>no you can't use both unova Zoroark AND Hisuian Zoroark
You do know this applies to main series too, right?

>>57979531
No. I just wanted to shit on smogon.

>>57979531
It shouldn't. Restrictions on team building are ridiculous.

>>57979523 (OP)
Don’t they have a no restrictions format?

>>57979531
So when are we implementing item clause?

>>57979523 (OP)
Literally none of those are fun

>>57979523 (OP)
Putting opponents to sleep and using recover over and over is fun?

>>57979523 (OP)
All of those things were banned because they aren't fun.

>>57979523 (OP)
>no you can't use phione she's too good
Uhhh VGCsisters...?

>>57979523 (OP)
sleep is extremely powerful and has very little in terms of reasonable counterplay, in first two gens- baisically none. a successful sleep creates at least two extra turns worth of effect on your side, and threat of sleep is too big of a detriment, so it's limited to one usage. reasonable.
evasion is the opposite of fun. remember minimize clefairy?
species clause is consistent with official competitions
moody is too random

>anti-smogfags complain that omgon only helps stall
>anti-smogfags beg for everything under the sun to help promote stall even more

>>57980113
>unban 1hko moves
>suddenly stall is garbage

>>57980127
>fissure missed!
>set up another minimize

>>57980127
Desperately gambling for Fissure hits is defeating stall?

>>57980149
yeah
30% chance is a lot higher than the chances of getting several crits in a row to kill a stallmon that your counter for is gone

>>57980113
One glance at the leaderboard and stall is still number 1 and has been for over 10 years.. Thats why everyone has stopped playing smogon. Random Battles is good though

competitive pokemon would be fun if stall didn't exist
literally the most autistic neckbeard thing to do in existence, taking a game people enjoy mostly for nostalgia's sake and taking as much time as possible to beat your opponent through status and walling. it's so gay

>>57979523 (OP)
All of those are fucking dogshit things that make battles tedious. Play in traffic contrarian troglodyte.

>>57979523 (OP)
Smogon was created to appease autistic manchildren who hate Pokemon, after all. Banning everything is the org's logical conclusion.

>>57979847
I love using sleep moves and Bright Powder and Double Team and OHKO moves and Moody and fun.

>>57980165
spoken like a true campaignshitter lmao

>>57979523 (OP)
It's a fan meta to try to remove rng and make the game more "skill focused" like chess. Does that level of predictability make things boring? I think so but then again I don't really play it. Nothing is stopping you from playing cart. Why cry about it on /vp/? You can even play BSS simulated on Showdown. Literally a non-issue and a beta move to whine about others enjoying thing you don't enjoy.

>>57980161
>recovering moves' PPs are nerfed
>dug and goth are banned
>many mons lost scald, toxic, and teleport
yet despite this stallniggers are still on the top ladder, maybe a battle timer would kill them for good

>>57980803
smogon policies are made to protect stall
you're missing the point

>>57980843
pleb take

>>57979523 (OP)
only pussy faggots that can't come up with a strategy that requires using more than 2 of their braincells likes sleepshit spam and brain dead evasion tactics

>>57980091
I can understand sleep but banning moody because it's "too random"? how is it being random a bad thing? it's random for the user too, not just the opponent.

>>57980925
>remove options from the game, reducing the number of threats you're forced to account for
>this is higher iq according to smogbabby

>>57979523 (OP)
Wait they banned sleep?
KEK, did Breloom outspeed some council members fursona of something lmao

>>57980927
evasion is why it was banned

>>57980937
okay but surely if it's "too random" then it can't be relied on to create an evasion tank? also as of gen 8 it no longer targets evasion or accuracy

>>57980956
No, they banned Moody (and kept it banned) because you can get rng blessed in a way that circumvents risk management and just wipes you out. It turns games into stat fishing.

>>57980932
no they just want to use darkrai in ou

>>57980930
>The said options are instant win buttons and stall shit.
>This is skill according to campaign shitters.

>>57980161
Stall is always safe for ladder climbing. Look at tournament results.

>>57979918
I feel sorry for Phione, she can never catch a break

>>57979857
>switch out tanks with regenerator for 999 rounds
>ensure anything that hurts said mega is banned
Yeah, they are definitely worried about stalling

>>57979523 (OP)
Go fuck a dog Verlisify

>>57979523 (OP)
why are you still posting verlis

>>57980979
>unban darkrai and ban sleep
>keep darkrai in ubers and maintain the status quo on sleep
i guarantee that finch and the other guys eventually came to these decisions, i'd rather have the latter. darkrai can be handled but i really do not like its presence in the tier

>>57980979
It wasn't just Darkrai, it was H-Lilligant and Iron Valiant that could also flip a coin and sweep based on the outcome.

>>57979523 (OP)
I know it's a bit lower on the menu but come on man

>>57980161
>Iron crown used calm mind
>win

>>57979523 (OP)
Go grind the battle frontier if you want Brightpowder OHKO RNG spam

>>57979523 (OP)
Have we reached Edgar Clause levels yet?
>battle plz, no nasty plot, or sword dance, or dragon dance, and u HAVE TO LET me set up bellyzard, and no taunt, or heracross, and NO WEAVILE, and no substitute, unless I have it. And don't use that many attacks and NO ROAR, or WHIRLWIND. AND IF IM GOING TO LOSE, then quit the fight.
Edgar tier when Smogon?

ban swagge

>>57979531
Yes and its as stupid as it sounds. These are two different beings.
>>57980091
It's as powerfull as poison at this point. They nerfed it too much.

Pokemon was never meant to be competitive to this degree. It was ALWAYS capped at house rule fun between friends.
It was only forced into this position due to a combination of autism from people who wanted to truly optimize Pokemon games, and TPC seeing yet another venue by which they can milk EVEN MORE money out of the consumer by tapping into this niche audience of dedicated autists who want to be the Pogaymanz World Champeen, so they push them to compete in VGC online so they can have the balls to qualify in the regionals of their area, and then the big event itself, all for the sake of advertising and selling exclusive merchandise to them on top of all the fees that translate into even more fat stacks that go right into Ishihara's pockets.
Anyone who gives a sincere flying fuck about competitive outside of fucking around with friends or in a novelty format is an absolute fool.

>>57980127
stall is the only archetype that could actually afford ohko moves spam. you aren't running sheer cold on your chien pao because if you miss once you're dead while a dondozo can afford missing 7 times and only hitting once

>>57979523 (OP)
If you can’t have fun with Pokemon without using less than 1% of the game, with said less than 1% being just gambling, then maybe you’re not interested in the entirety of Pokemon.

>>57981412
Its not helping they fucked up but not making friendship bonuses carry to vs battles

>>57980127
Stall teams can use OHKO moves, and they can use OHKO moves better than Chien-Pao because they get to flip the coin more times and only need to hit heads once.

Little Timmy cries about Smogon banning and changing the game too much, but really Smogon does the opposite.
The amount of shit Smogon lets slip by is absurb compared to other video games or sports, and if they do ban something, it’s only after letting it terrorize a metagame for a century (King’s Rock)
They are also extremely inconsistent with bans (Freeze Clause existing and only existing in Gens 1&2, there being not a single paralysis clause or Jirachi being banned when evasion is always banned, and not even banning things that cause evasion when evasion clause exists) or unban something that was only slightly nerfed (Gen 8 Moody).
In any other community, they’d play on RNGless servers with things like Roaring Moon tier weapons/characters being banned/nerfed instantly instead of being banned only after several months, getting unbanned, then getting rebanned

>>57981477
Reminder that Lavos' meltdown was completely justified and he was right to get out of this hellscape of a metagame when he got royally assraped by bad RNG.

>>57981431
>smogonfaggots don't like pokemon
say it ain't so

>>57981008
>a less than 1/3 chance is an insta-win button
smogoniggers are so retarded
>muh stall
git gud

>>57981881
There are thousands of items/abilities/moves you can use, and you’re whining because only a handful of things are banned.

>>57980165
If you don't like stall don't play 6v6 singles. Stall doesn't work in Little Cup, VGC, or 3v3 singles, much less any of the myriad of other niche formats. Playing 6v6 singles then complaining about stall is the Pokemon equivalent of the retard going into a thread to complain about being in that thread.

>>57980930
>>57981890
A skillful player doesn’t need to use OHKO moves to win, and whether or not a skillful player loses to OHKO moves or not is up to the computer rather than the player’s own skill.

>>57981899
I don't like the fact I can't play the game and instead am forced to play restrictive "fan"fiction forced down my throat by whiny autists that don't even like the game, yes

>>57981928
A skillful player wins with every option in the game presented to him. An unskillful player needs to artificially get rid of options he feels disadvantages him.

>>57981934
see >>57981330

>>57980144
>Minimize does nothing because I'm not a retarded campaignshitter and remembered Unaware exists

>>57980149
>using the game's mechanics and playing to your win condition is "desperately gambling"
This is why you'll always be dogshit at Pokemon games.

>>57981330
>you want to be able to use basic game mechanics that aren't even broken? HURRRR JUST PLAY THE MEME CLOWN FORMAT WHERE EVERYTHING IS ALLOWED!
fuck off retard

>>57980160
Except that fatmons can fish for ohkos harder than frail sweepers you dunce. You’re out of your mind if you think stallfags wouldn’t immediately fish for fissure hits as well. If your fucking wincon against stall is still tilted against you you’ve already lost

>>57981975
anything goes doesn't exist for the gens I play and I don't want to play ubers effectively anyway

>>57982079
>anything goes doesn't exist for the gens I play
Yes it does.
>I don't want to play ubers effectively anyway
Nobody wants to play your fanfic garbage.

>>57981477
>The amount of shit Smogon lets slip by is absurb compared to other video games or sports, and if they do ban something, it’s only after letting it terrorize a metagame for a century (King’s Rock)

That's a joke right
Smogon frequently bans things before any tournaments have even occurred in a generation

>>57981988
>Except that fatmons can fish for ohkos harder than frail sweepers you dunce
Except fatmons that sit there and stall for damage will give the opponent more opportunities to fish for OHKO moves you dunce

>>57982094
Only for absolutely absurd shit like a Pokemon with Mewtwo's special attack and speed backed up by a completely unresisted STAB combination. Smogon doesn't even ban much these days.

>>57982084
>Yes it does.
No it doesn't.
>Nobody wants to play your fanfic garbage.
?

>you now remember how they banned shit so quickly and in such numbers in gen 9 that it actively made the meta less stable and balanced
>things were banned before people could even attempt to find counters

>>57982152
how could one ever forget?

>>57982105
lmao no they won’t
in a smogon meta where ohko moves are unbanned you will absolutely see stall fish for that shit when they can reliably and consistently do so
>b-but my one-off webm
no

>>57982228
>you will absolutely see stall not play like stall anymore
wait...why is this a bad thing again?

>>57982094
>wtf why didn’t they allow Miraidon in OU before people got to play with it?
Also still a fraction of what Pokemon is.
There are over 1000 Pokemon, and you’re crying because some broken shit like Flutter Mane banned (from OU).

>>57982507
>over 1000 Pokemon
...In fanfic natdex metas. In reality, there's only ever going to be 450-700 Pokemon to play around with in formats that adhere to that generation's limitations for Post-Dexit Pokemon.

>>57981938
>All Athletes are unskilled because steroids are banned
>All Smash players are unskilled because Hyrule Temple and Items are banned
>All Chess players are unskilled because using a buttplug connected to a Stockfish is banned
>Gamblers are skilled because they hit a button on the slot machine and the slot machine decided to let them win
lmao shit little timmies say to not admit OHKO moves and Evasion are dogshit.

>>57982922
>All Athletes are unskilled because steroids are banned
the human body naturally produces steroids you fucking retard
are those banned???

>>57981938
Yeah, we should just be able to shoot the competition dead and win first place by process of elimination, I agree.

>>57979523 (OP)
is there any PARTICULAR strategy that zoroark and hisuian zoroark do that's problematic, or is it just "no luck allowed" autism

Any team that's willing to weigh itself down with unova zoroark should be allowed

does anyone here actually play omgon metas

>>57981412
>implying you wouldn't be excited to be world champion if they just handed it to you

>>57982951
If you didn’t have breakfast this morning, how would you feel?

>>57982972
I want to start back up again but fuck current gen OU and I can't decide which of the lower tiers I want to invest my time into.

>>57983185
UU is good rn
>>57981164
compared to older gens it's not as reliable and very dependent on matchups but i'm seeing a resurgence, a good bulk of players in the high ladder play HO this gen and some players use stall to counteract this and they'd win most of the time if their opponents don't bring ghold

>>57982972
I play Gen III OU

>>57982961
Might have something to do with one being weak to Fighting while the other is immune to it, and players getting mad because they predicted you were sending out Zoroark but not which one.

>>57979523 (OP)
Sleep clause, evasion (rng bull) and OHKO moves (rng bull) are pretty justified but regional forms really should be exceptions to species clause including in Official doubles format.

>>57980165
basedboy

ANOTHER bait post with a sea of bot replies. Truly subhuman.

>>57979523 (OP)
why are you playing that format? Just play AG

>>57982961
OP is talking about species clause, which VGC and BSS have too. OP is just conflating it to seem like Smogon simply banned Zoroark from being with Hisui Zoroark, when you can’t have any Pokemon with the same dex number at all.

>>57979523 (OP)
i do wish there was an anything goes doubles so i could just use 6 oricorio

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesuu-2399612317

Jewish
Pedophile
Tranny
Groomer
Fanfic
Meta

>>57984159
Average TCG player

>>57984570
Cry about it, sleep spamming evasion faggot.

>>57979857
stealth rock is SO fun
banning anything that makes balance unviable is AMAZING
banning entire expansion gimmicks while babysitting pushed legendaries is truly the pinnacle of competitive gaming

>>57984593
Ogerpon-W is still there though

>>57984593
>Taking 12.5% on switch for most Pokemon, and can easily be avoided for Pokemon that take more damage BAD!!
>Getting your 1 resist to a powerful threat put into a state where they can’t use a single move for 1-3 turns, which can easily let the powerful threat beat your otherwise counter to it GOOD!!

>>57981412
Replace Pokemon with Bideo Games and go post this on /v/. It's true about literally every game with pvp.

>>57984593
smogtards btfo

>>57982961
>>57983472
Not the reason. Here's the real answer:
>>57984149
>when you can’t have any Pokemon with the same dex number at all.
>because... YOU JUST CAN'T OKAY??
Yup because using both forms of Ninetales is just too absurdly powerful. Now excuse me while I put boots on 5/6ths of my team.

>>57980144
what gen did they make accuracy stuff effect OHKO moves, they used to just be hard 30% and nothing changes it

I like it when one person plays the heel with OKHO moves and parafusion and so on and one person is the face trying to be a 100% tryhard

>>57984763
Ask GameFreak why they don’t have a form clause and instead also use species clause

>B-BUT LE RNG ISN'T FUN!!!
cool, so why aren't paralysis, confusion, attract, and every move that can flinch banned yet? Is it because even smogshit realizes it would make their format look too clownish and barely like the actual game?

I stopped paying much attention to smogon after they banned bright powder. What's funny about the sleep ban is that they could have just banned hypnosis and it wouldve nerfed the broken stuff they needed to nerf (Iron valiant and Darkrai)

>>57984805
Because sleep and 1-hit moves aren't fun.

>>57984805
I fully agree. Smogon should take measures to minimize those elements, but don’t for some reason.
But hey, it’s only a matter of tike until Finchinator gets cucked out of an important win because of Paralysis/Flinching/Jirachi and suddenly the entire OU council will think “woah! maybe we really shouldn’t allow perma -1 accuracy (for all moves btw)/-2 speed and a Pokemon who by attacking has a 60% chance to skip your turn (which stacks with paralysis) if its faster!”

But Smogon is stubborn in that regard because they don’t want to change mechanics of the game intentionally (just ignore Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, dysncs being patched, etc.).

>>57979523 (OP)
Just play AG if you wanna use the most degen strategies fag.

>>57984805
They were about to bam waterfall gyarados for paraflinching a faggy mod

>>57984857
Waterfall shouldn’t be banned.
They should really bite the bullet, and just mod the game so that every flinch inducing move besides Fake Out and Upper Hand has a 0% chance to flinch. As well as make it so Paralysis still functions but can’t fully paralyze.
We already have Freeze Clause, not just in Gen 1 where Freeze can’t be cured by yourself, but also in Gen 2 too where you can actually thaw out.
Even then, shit is like “oh you can only freeze 1 Pokemon. After that freeze will always fail” which is fucking stupid since why not ban freeze all together.

>>57980745
fatty

>>57983424
lose weight

When your entire "council" is controlled by the whims of what a certain neanderthal looking human wants whatever day you shouldn't be surprised at what you get

>>57984593
>hating rocks
It's easier to just say you play stall

>>57984794
I thought Smogon was about finding an actual balance to the game instead of relying on GameFreak's arbitrary rules. Why is this one arbitrary rule okay?

>>57979531
Yeah, but that's real dumb, they're completely different pokemon gameplay-wise, not alt forms.

>>57979523 (OP)
You could just not play on their servers? Or is autistic seethe what you're really after? When I don't like something I don't interract with it and go do things I like instead.

>>57986925
>>57986930
Where do you draw the line? Only at regional forms? Why only regional forms? Other Pokemon can have forms that adjust their types and even stats, nobody wants to fight a team with several Rotom forms on it.

>>57987013
Nobody wants to fight a team with fucking Zamazenta and Darkrai either yet here we are.

>>57987098
I do

>>57987103
>t.

>>57987013
it's based on technicality, apparently GF counts the regional forms as the original forms so the species clause gets triggered

>>57987141
Yeah, that's how every form has worked.

give me good reasons why I should want sleep and evasion spam back. you can't.

>>57987141
>6v6 doesn’t even have a species clause in game
>species clause of Smogon has to be the same as species clause of cart because ???

>>57987258
Because that's how the playerbase wants to play the game. Don't like it? AG is right there.

>>57987261
Seems more like moderator fiat to me, most people don’t want to make 4 SlowX teams do it doesn’t effect most people but I’ve seen it brought up before and immediately shut down

>>57987279
Are you the same fag who calls for the item clause to be implemented in every thread? Why do you care so much about a ruleset you never play?

>>57987285
Ok so it’s a rule just to make it “more like the game” even though 6v6 in the game has no species clause? I bet if it was put to vote “regional forms count as different species” it would pass because it doesn’t matter

>>57987261
>don't like retarded clown format? just play even more retarded clown format!
not an argument

>>57987295
It's a rule to make the game more fun to play. It being what VGC uses has no bearing on its inclusion.

>>57987295
I think it does matter for pokemon like neutralizing gas weezing which has a very specific effect.

>>57987297
>bend over backwards and satisfy my every desire even though literally only a single person wants it!
Kill yourself.

>>57987305
>literally only a single person wants it
>that's why more people play cart than fanfic
lmao

>>57987303
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say all the Weezing have neutralizing gas

>>57987321
Suddenly you can use two pokemon with a game-warping effect instead of one if each regional counts as a separate pokemon.

With regional variants like ninetales or darmanitan, this isn't an issue.

>>57987332
It is still an issue with Darmanitan. If you beat one wallbreaker, you have another that is mostly the same in reserve. Most regional forms are just the same Pokemon with a different secondary type, anyway. Ninetales is the most extreme change.

Power gamers ruin every game they touch for this reason. They can't stand randomness, they dont want variety, they hate anything that doesn't let them scientifically dissect a game down to an autistic meta that eventually becomes indistinguishable from playing rock, paper, scissors.

>>57987364
Then don't play with them?

>>57987369
I dont. But an unfortunate side effect of them existing and being so loud and obnoxious is that they end up influencing the direction games take to suit their preferences. Not just in pokemon but any game they infect.

>>57987372
Oh, so you just come into threads about something you dislike in order to tell the world you dislike it.

>>57987376
The topic posted is what I'm discussing while you are larping out some evil Socrates power trip where you ask snarky questions without ever making a point of your own.

If you played Smogon OU in gen 4, you are based. If you play in 5-6, it's a little cringe. If you play in 7 onwards, you are irredeemable. Sorry, I don't make the rules.

>>57987346
nta but that’s a pretty bad reasoning and example.
If you can wall 1 form, you likely can wall the other and beat it the same or at least in similar way.
Your opponent is using up a team slot to double down on the same role with mostly similar strengths and weaknesses.
The actual reason why species clause exists is unironically just basic cosmetics. Smogon wants teams to be diverse. That’s literally it. There is no real competitive reason to have species clause.

>>57987407
>latias and paraflinch the meta
>based
gen 3 and gen 7 (or just the odd numbered gens really) are 100x better than that cesspit of a generation

>>57987407
Sorry bro Gen 4’s meta is now considered shit

>>57979523 (OP)
In this thread: Retards crying about shit they're not going to play anyway

>>57987255
To appease people who aren't gonna play anyway, duhhhhh nonnykins!

>>57987573
/vp/ staple desu, been going on since the board was made