Thread 58007077

>widely considered to be the start of modern Pokemon
>12 years old
how much more time needs to pass before they're considered old Pokemon?

>>58007077 (OP)
that's not how it works

>>58007077 (OP)
Eras dont work like that anon. Somwthing doesnt "age out" of being part of an era. "Modern" is just an NPC misnomer, happened IRL in the 90s when people decided we were officially in the "Modern" age, only to then invent the internet.
In reality what's gonna happen is either the "Modern" era will end and people will rename it afterward (with a weird inbetween phase where new shit is called "Post-modern") or the modern era already ended and people havent decided the exact dividing point yet.

>>58007077 (OP)
>3D
>fairy types
Gen 6 will always be a nugen

Sonic Adventure is old, but still the beginning of the 3D series so

>>58007077 (OP)
>widely [FANFIC]

>>58007077 (OP)
Terms needs to be updated into eras based on rough guidelines instead of what is new. I would propose the following, don't get hung up on the actual titles:
The "Classic" Era (Gens 1-4)
Personally I say that gens 1-4 are classic, because their region design being fairly local to the development team, the lack of QoL with the expectation being no one having perfect Pokemon (HGSS was the only start to this where you could get 1 guaranteed IV in any stat perfect with its Safari Zone), limited communications globally (most features were focused on being local with limited or few features being online only, mainly of the local features have analogs to online for gen 4). Also focuses on unique hardware to expand gameplay like the Pokewalker, eReader, GB Printer, the "hub battle game" concept (Stadiums 1/2, Colo/XD, PBR,) still having spotlight here.
The "Global" Era (Gens 5-7)
A diminishing of selling additional hardware with the idea that features can fit into one game with help from the Internet. Expanded capabilities of online play such as the Dream World, Global Link, Pokemon Bank for cloud Pokemon storage, PSS for finding players, Festival Plaza, PokeMiles and Join Avenue for rewarding frequent communications. Trade negotiations and Wonder Trades available. More direct paths for world design in many cases, regions no longer bound by what is local to Japan (despite many Japanese influences still being in regions). QoL improved in many ways to give people stronger Pokemon (TMs are infinite uses, IVs were made easier to get in many cases, Hidden Abilities are a thing that make many more Pokemon have viable niches). Eventual turn to global worldwide releases for all players. Steady decrease of local-only content, like Entralink in gen 5 or Funfest missions.
The "Experimental" Era (Switch games to now)
1/?

When the patterns it established are moved on from.
As it stands, X and Y act as templates for current entries, and therefore are "modern."

>>58007745
Experiment era brought on by the success of Pokemon GO confirmed that GameFreak can still develop games that have Pokemon in them but do not play like traditional Pokemon games. Because of the experimental nature of this era (or due to laziness, the debate continues), not all Pokemon can go into every game in this era. All games in this era have some form of HOME support, as HOME acts as the hub game here that also promises that it will keep track of a Pokemon's unique stats for each game.
>LGPE
Focus on capitalizing on GO's craze with the same nostalgic undertones in order to bring in a more casual audience while allowing people to also use some of their Pokemon from GO.
>Sword/Shield
Heavy focus on competitive battling; made the entire region into a battle-oriented region, added in heavy QoL options, added local competition hosting in an easy way (which was underutilized due to the pandemic), brought Global Link-less friendly competitions, and introduced competitive seasons that gave more variety to the formats instead of the formats just being one year long format (in most cases).
>PLA
First game that is a heavy departure from the standard gameplay formula to the point of an entire rework of the stat system and turn based combat, which also warranted entirely new move effects and in some cases moves. Also moved when encounter stats are calculated from the point of the encounter to the point in which Pokemon are actually spawned on the map.
>Scarlet/Violet
First actual true open world game where players can move across the map with minimal loading screens. Less of a focus on trainer battles and more of a focus on exploring the open world, which such things as general Pokemon encounters, the legendaries of the region, world transversal, etc, contingent on the player learning and exploring the large world. As this is a mainline game, the same QoL is kept from Sword and Shield but some of it is sidegraded (egg generation wherever via picnics).

>>58007765
This. Pokemon Red and Blue are modern.

>>58007768
We are still very much in the experimental era in my opinion and Champions is proof of this.
How long we are in this era depends on the success of the next few games.
Also my omission of BDSP was intentional, it was clearly a game that stood in this era to be "in spite of" all of the other experimental games we've received. Sword and Shield otherwise are the other games I could consider not being experimental in their design because they were not drastic.

>>58007077 (OP)
Sounds like a newfag complaint to me…

>>58007773
I wouldn't necessarily call Red and Blue "modern." They've ditched quite a lot from the Gameboy games, even down to some fundamental mechanics(and hidden ones too. DVs, anyone?) At the earliest, I'd hazard declaring Ruby and Sapphire as "modern", but the physical and special split happened with Diamond and Pearl, which I'd argue disqualifies Ruby and Sapphire.
The main reason I declare X and Y as the template and not anything prior is because of 3 major distinguishing factors:
>A non-returning primary battle gimmick in each generation (Mega evolution, Z-moves,
>Affectionate Pokemon interaction(Amie, Refresh, Camp, Picnics)
>Returning legendaries
Every mainline Pokemon game after X and Y has had these three things that, as far as I remember, originated with X and Y.

>>58007077 (OP)
If we're talking mechanically, 4+ are modern, 1 and 2 are classic, and 3 is a grey area, though leans somewhat modern

Oops, didn't finish the list of battle gimmicks.
Dynamax/Gigantamax and Terastallization are the missing ones.

>>58007781
This is one of the reasons why I consider gens 1-4 being the classic generations. It's clear that they did not fully have down how they wanted to calculate basic things for the main feature of the games (battling) until gen 4 finally locked them into it and confirmed it with Platinum/HGSS.

>>58007781
>A non-returning primary battle gimmick in each generation
XY didn’t do this
>Returning legendaries
This was already in prior games

Do a better job at pretending not to be a Unova shill

>>58007803
>XY didn’t do this
Did you miss Mega Evolutions, a mechanic that wasn't exactly common with Gen 7 and didn't return after 7?
>This was already in previous games
As far as I know, Black and White 2, and it technically wasn't lengendaries but mythicals(Latios, Latias, Cressellia and Darkrai I believe are the only returning mythicals.) You're right that X and Y didn't start this if you ignore the minor difference between legendary and mythical, but Black and White 2 are the black sheep of all the previous generations in this regard and clearly wasn't used as the template for the future.
Besides, if Gen 5 was the template, where's the 3rd and 4th games for Gens 6, 8 and 9? Where's the soft reboot Pokedex, the hundreds of new Pokemon per generation?

>Do a better job at pretending not to be a Unova shill
Unova, outta nowhere. Hey, guess what: You can't catch Lugia in Gen 5. You know what gens you CAN catch it in? Gens 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9. Gens 2 and 4 make sense, they have games focusing on Johto. Why can you catch them in Hoenn (Remake,) Alola (Ultra,) Galar and Paldea?

>>58007816
Firstly, Megas are the main exception as they keep coming back for whatever reason, even of they only co-existed with one other gimmick before Champions.
Secondly, Latias, Latias, and especially Cresselia are not Mythical Pokemon what the fuck are you talking about?
Thirdly, there have been a number of times previous legendaries return. FRLG with the legendary rascals, the Game Cube titles with a lot of them that simply aren't in RS, events for the aforementioned Lugia, and tons of them pop up in Platinum and HGSS. However, XY is the first first version to make it common, SM didn't even really have any other older legendaries just lying around (ignore Zygarde he's only there because they canceled Mega X and Mega Y) nor do the Switch titles without their DLC. It's really exclusively an XY padding problem without even SM's tenuous excuse of being an anniversary game (that only works occasionally, the Nugget Bridge callback is really terrible). Even then, while the justification is never as good as Platinum or HGSS, they do tend to have really lame justifications (Hoopa rings, other universes, Dynamax holes are fucking weird I dunno why the fuck are there Ultra Beasts there anyway?).
Stop giving Yawnfag any sort of ground, you don't know what you're talking about.

>unovafags desperately pretending that gen 5 has more in common with the old games than every game after it
Nugen fans lmao

>>58007077 (OP)
Welcome to the same conundrum art and history have been having for the recent century or so.
>time for post-modern Pokemon era

go yawnie

>>58007853
Gen 4 and 5 are basically the same on a mechanical level. Similarly, Gen 6 and onward are basically the same on a mechanical level. Gen 6 also looks similar aesthetically to every game after it, while Gen 5 is more similar to the games immediately before it. Gen 5 is directly on the border, but it has more in common with the games on the same system as it. Slight design philosophy differences that were already in progress in Platinum and also aren't as pronounced as the later games don't really change the fact that on the surface and on a deeper look Gen 5 and 6 are blatantly obviously different in ways that are less obvious if you compared them to titles before and after them, respectively.

>>58007837
>are not Mythical Pokemon
My memory is unbelievably shit. I had misremembered the fact you acquire Latios/Latias in Sapphire/Ruby by using the Eon ticket with them BOTH being unobtainable in both games without the Eon ticket. This is NOT the case, unfortunately, as Latios/Latias are available in Ruby/Sapphire without the ticket.
As for Cresselia, I have no words. I somehow came to the conclusion that, because Darkrai was a mythical, its counterpart had to be as well. (I never played through the Gen 4 games far enough to get the roaming encounters, unfortunately. It's on my todo list but I just haven't had time.)
>FRLG
Remakes... ehhh, I'll stretch the definition and say they're mainline for the sake of argument.
This is a fair acknowledgement. I didn't actually know that the Gen 2 legendaries were available in them, I thought you had to use the GameCube to get them.
>GameCube titles
Those aren't mainline and weren't in my consideration, but it is fair to note them.
>Platinum
Oh yeah, so they do. You know, looking at Serbii the one time I didn't would've been really enlightening. https://www.serebii.net/platinum/legends.shtml
>XY is the first version to make it common
... I mean that's what I was kind of angling for, in conjunction WITH the other two points. Throwing in "originated with X and Y" was a bad idea though, given that I was actually wrong. Shows how bad my memory is...
>Stop giving Yawnfag any sort of ground
Yawnfag, as in the original faggot, doesn't exist anymore. The impostors just blatantly lie anyways, so me literally being wrong unfortunately isn't even a problem anymore. Still, better to be correct than incorrect. Thanks for correcting me, anon.

Holy fuck sperg, shut up

>>58007853
this is the only response this thread deserved

>>58007876
Gen 5 doesn't belong to either side of the generational gap though. It's kind of in its own purgatory.

Reminder that we'll never have another game as good as gen 5. Yet people itt are so gay

>>58007882
Correct.
>Gen1-4
Slop.
>Gen5
Kino.
>Gen6-9
Shit.

cringe thread

>>58007816
> Did you miss Mega Evolutions, a mechanic that wasn't exactly common with Gen 7
oh…so gen 7 had it and your point is immediately destroyed. Ok. Maybe we should call gen 5 modern because it introduced gems that got cut in gen 6.

>Latios, Latias, Cressellia
>mythicals
>ignoring the lake trio, heatran, regis, etc also being lazily slapped in
>thinking gen 5 is a soft reboot
Holy fuck, get better bait.

>>58007867
Having infinite TMs is basically the same as not, you got me there.

>>58007867
>Gen 4 and 5 are basically the same on a mechanical level
except for the exploration being thoroughly gutted for the sake of a non-japanese tourist region, infinite TMs, broken gimmicks like gems and hidden abilities, battle frontier being cut, berry farming being cut, contests being cut, secret bases being cut, focus on asinine online and multiplayer features at the cost of the game’s content…

lmfao

>>58007867
>graphicsfagging
kek

>>58007894
>so gen 7 had it
But it wasn't available until the post game, and it was tacked on. I also noted it as the only exception to this rule... for one generation before it got cut.
An exception doesn't disprove a rule by the ways, it does quite the opposite. A rule is not a function. If it WAS a function, then it would mean that I would have to start with Gen 7. I'm not against saying that Sun and Moon are the templates for future games, but I feel like X and Y deserves that title more.
>it introduced gems that got cut in gen 6
New held items are not a primary battle gimmick, unlike mega evolution which gave your Pokemon a boost for as long as it was out, Z-moves which replaced moves, Dynamaxxing which did both, and Terrstallization which changes your Pokemon typing(and if there's anything else, I haven't played Gen 9 to experience it yet.)
Also, you can still use the gems in the most recent games, provided you had some way to source them(IE: trading it up to X and Y before Pokemon Bank then Pokemon HOME which you no longer do. The exception is the normal gem, which from what I have been told, is obtainable in every game, all the way to Paldea.)
>ignoring
You act like I've actually played BW2 that far. I've only played BW1 to any substantial degree(read: past the 3rd gym,) which surprise, doesn't have ANY of these encounters, and also doesn't have a single old Pokemon until the post-game reintroduces the national dex.
I'm not ignoring these, I literally just don't know about them. Maybe don't assume the worst.

>>58007077 (OP)
>Braixen/Delphox
>Lucario literally thrusts himself upon you
>Sylveon
This game was made for furfags

>>58007916
>gems weren't a gimmick
You guys really need to retire this one. It makes you look extra retarded.

>>58007916
>You act like I've actually played BW2 that far. I've only played BW1 to any substantial degree(read: past the 3rd gym,)
More than most gen 5 fans lmao

XY/ORAS have
>lots of side content
>grid maps
>isometric view
>national dex
>hall of fame
>less cutscenes than g7+
They are objectively oldgen

>>58007853
The only thing it has in common with the later games are EXP scaling (which is absent in Gen 6 for some reason) and the fact that hidden abilities exist. It lacks the fairy type and the type matchup changes that came with it, lacks a button on the move UI for generational gimmicks, lacks many of the type exclusive passives that Gen 6 (and 7 in the case of exactly Dark type) introduced, and largely uses sprites for Pokemon in battle as opposed to 3D models. About the only thing Gen 5 doesn't do is radically change the entire fucking base system on which battles operate as was incredibly common in the previous games.
>>58007894
>that got cut in gen 6.
They're not only in Gen 6, they added a fairy one. They are, however, unused. Maybe Game Freak planned on giving them away in an event, or planned on giving them to some NPC fight that also never happened because they had to cut like 90% of the post-game. You know, exactly like Eternal Floette.
>>58007901
Which isn't even a thing in every single later game either, granted there being an infinite source of all of them is a new innovation and probably should have been the way they implemented it in the first place.
>>58007903
>exploration being thoroughly gutted
Roughly the same optional exploration areas as Gen 1
>infinite TMs
See above reply
>broken gimmicks like gems and hidden abilities
See twice above reply, also Gen 4 introduced more abilities for Pokemon as well
>battle frontier being cut
Functionally in B2W2 just not in a centralized area
>berry farming being cut
In Gen 5 just not the DS titles, also was not in Gen 1 or 2
>contests being cut
Replaced with something worse, like Gen 4 did to 3
>secret bases being cut
Not in Gen 1, also HGSS did it first
>focus on asinine online and multiplayer features at the cost of the game’s content
Gen 2/4 did it first
>>58007913
Okay, ignore that part if you want.
>>58007920
So where's the UI element that lets you activate it? Where's the aesthetic difference?

>>58007928
>lots of side content
Gen 1 doesn't have this (though arguably neither does XY so it's a moot point)

>>58007920
>gems weren't a gimmick
No, gems are a gimmick. I didn't say they weren't. They're not a primary battle gimmick though. Held items are NOT PRIMARY BATTLE GIMMICKS, they're SECONDARY, and every generation before Gen 5(and obviously after Gen 1 because Gen 1 had no held items) had some form of it.
Things that are interfaced directly into the battle UI itself as another control feature AND that affect the Pokemon you're using directly, IE: replacing moves, forms, stat boosts, etc, are considered primary, because it's right in the forefront.
Please do not discard "primary", it's an incredibly important distinction that I keep making for a reason. Removing it just makes you completely nullify your own arguments towards me.

I can't wait for Champions to come out, give us a proper name for the gimmicks, and then make it abundantly clear that the type gems aren't considered in the same category so Yawnfag seethes like he did when the leaks proved they cut the post-game from XY

>>58007943
>when the leaks proved they cut [thing that’s still in XY]
take your meds

>>58007930
>lacks a button on the move UI for generational gimmicks
Yeah they just turned the button for the move into the gimmick button. So different!

>>58007937
>please accept my faggot definitions
Least disingenuous gen 5 fan

>>58007957
Sorry, when I said "post-game" I meant, "the vast majority of planned post-game areas such as a place to dive and a new Team Flare base". You know, the kind of stuff that was in DP, BW, and even SM to a lesser extent as opposed to the basically nothing from RS, SS, and SV. I thought it was well understood that XY barely passes RS and Gen 1 for third place in the complete lack of post-game contest, as unlike SS/SV they all lack significant multiplayer co-op (that in SS's case will survive the death of Nintendo Switch Online thanks to LAN mode). The comparison to RS is actually really apt, it's got a similar content profile overall with the main attraction being a single area where there's a Battle Tower clone.
>>58007976
It's just Power Herb, retard, is that a gimmick? Or do you think you get to keep the gem for the next battle? Or have you only ever used it on Showdown so you genuinely think that's how it works?

>>58007983
>the vast majority of [things that exist in the game]
Take your meds.

>>58007077 (OP)
Not really how eras work.
The jump from gen 5 to gen 6 is the second biggest shift in how the game: played, with gen 2 and gen 3 being number one.
In the same vein that gen 4 will never be considered part of the classical era of pokemon games, gen 6 will never be considered part of the golden era

>>58007993
I didn't know a place to transfer Pokemon from Gen 5 was in the game, I thought it was in a separate application that Game Freak could shut down at any time like berry farming in the Dream World. I didn't know you could use Dive in XY. And I especially didn't know there was a new Team Flare base for the post-game storyline instead of just re-using the old one. Could you show me some evidence of that? Even a Bulbapedia page would help a lot.

>>58007996
>The jump from gen 5 to gen 6 is the second biggest shift in how the game: played
not really

>>58008004
>dream world is shut down, bank isn’t
>XY has an entirely new postgame storyline with the evil team, BW doesn’t
damn I wish they finished gen 5

>>58008011
BW as released was entirely a first draft

>>58007077 (OP)
> GB (GB, GBC, GBA) era
Gen 1, 2 & 3
> DS (DS/3DS) era
Gen 4, 5, 6 & 7
> Switch (switch/switch 2) era
Gen 8 & 9

>>58007996
>In the same vein that gen 4 will never be considered part of the classical era of pokemon games
says who?
notice this cluster and what it beat

Why are DSfag vs 3Dfag wars still a thing?

>>58008029
unova fans trying to force their gen as “classic”

>>58008029
yawnfag getting butthurt and trying to deflect criticism of xy onto gen 5

>>58008006
What other competition is there? Special Split from Gen 1-2? Some Pokemon got the short end of the stick where they're not special attackers at all I guess. Items from Gen 1-2? There was like one good one. Steel and Dark being added from Gen 1-2? Okay maybe everything together adds up but given how nervous they were to add Pokemon with the new types they only accomplished so much between all of this. Physical Special Split from Gen 3-4? It's functionally just giving Pokemon new move-sets which they do all the time. Adding abilities is the biggest thing they could do and dramatically changed how some Pokemon play, while fairy was not only quite strong the passive buffs they gave to other types were a pretty big deal as well, on top of some minor stat balancing which never happened before. This is ignoring the introduction of "the button you press to do this cinematic buff we advertised", aka gimmick, which was a pretty big deal at the time but is probably lessened by all the other times they did the exact same thing.
>>58008011
They do, Looker is even there, the fuck are you on about?
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Looker#Pok%C3%A9mon_Black_and_White
Hell, the Shadow Triad even show up in a completely unrelated event and give you the Gen 4 Dragon Balls. And if you look at the BW map they had planned they added even more areas. At least bring up a thing they actually cut like sending MP3s to the game via Game Sync, or the kinda cool snail guy, or giving Druddigon an evolution instead of him just being a guy.

>>58007996
sinnohfetus desperately want to be part of pokemania but they just weren't.

>>58008036
this
>>58008058
Pokemania died during Gen II prerelease

>>58008066
And yet sinnohfetuses try to force gen 4 as "classic" when gen 3 was already a soft reset.

>>58008066
Correction, the fad died after the 3-4-ish year lifespan of a fad, which roughly coincided with the release of Crystal and/or Gen 3. Despite this and how godawful the GBA sold, Pokemon was still the best seller on the console which is impressive, Transformers wished it could convert as well during that same time period and also after a tremendous flop in the form of Beast Machines (although said flop probably didn't help matters). Hell, Transformers went through this once already back in the late 80's where they just tried to ape every other toyline gimmick and had to coast until cancellation, and then their Gen 2 reboot flopped so they had to get experimental with the successful Beast Wars line. It wasn't until the live action movies where they had a solid baseline to keep making the franchise work (after somebody on the team decided they needed a fucking aligned plan for their franchise).

>>58007077 (OP)
XY (and also gen 5, but because of other reasons) are kinda awkard because they're in some sort of “middle ground” between classic and nu-Pokémon.
They have distinct nu-Pokémon features, like the generational gimmick, the Exp Share, etc. Though, at the time, we didn't realize these would start a trend.
But at the same time, they also have a lot of “Masudaisms”, that aren't present in the latter gens by virtue of Masuda not directing them. Playing through XY, there's this thin veneer of “pseudo-philosophism”, like the game's trying to have a dialogue about these higher philosophical topics like friendship and people - something that the earlier Masuda gens do (gen 5 with truth and ideals; gen 4 about myths; gen 3 about nature). I don't say this to be disparaging; I find it really endearing and it's one of my favorite things about Masuda's games. Gen 6 also tried to continue previous trends, like introducing new battle formats (gen 5 introduced triples and rotation battles; gen 6 introduced sky and inverse battles).
Ultimately, the classifications for gens are kinda arbitrary, and the line between “old Pokémon” and “nu-Pokémon” is very blurry.

>>58008070
Gen IV is the 2nd game in the duology Gen III started, so yeah, it's a classic game in the quadrilogy.
Besides, Masuda made Gen II as well.

>>58008081
same old cope for Johto turning off consumers
15 million+ sales lost from the biggest phenomenon in gaming history

>>58007768
>Because of the experimental nature of this era (or due to laziness, the debate continues)
Don't forget or due to greed.

>>58008126
Gen 3 isn't classic it was the soft reboot dummy.

The divide is Gen 1 which was created according to Satoshi Tajiri's vision the Gens 2-5 which was according to Masuda's direction (Gen 2 was salvaged and made anew by Masuda from from Tajiri's failed over-ambititous vision of a national cross-Japan Pokemon game). Then Gen 6 is truly nuPokemon.

>>58008723
>the Gens 2-5 which was according to Masuda's direction
masuda directed XY, dumbfuck

>>58007077 (OP)
They're silver age now, so they kind of are.

>>58008029
It's a single mentally ill retard.

>>58008723
>>58008727
XY is the turning point where they gave up halfway through development due to incompetence with 3D, the feedback from BW, and Masuda being mindbroken by mobage.

>gen 1-4
pokemon
>gen 5
death
>gen 6-9
nu-pokemon