People usually think that Gold and Silver didn't include some Kanto locations like Cerulean Cave, Seafoam Islands, Viridian Forest and the Safari Zone, because there wasn't any space left on the cartridge. But is this really true? Or was there more space left (after Iwata decompressed the game) but the devs just believed a smaller Kanto was more fitting as a postgame for Gold and Silver?

Furthermore, wasn't Crystal on a bigger capacity cartridge than Gold/Silver? They could've easily added the missing Kanto locations in Crystal, but they didn't. This makes me think that the devs just didn't want to expand Kanto further.

Can someone explain the truth behind GSC to me?

>>58029490 (OP)
Likely a little of both. Some Kanto places were reduced or removed because either their main purpose was related to RBY’s plot or Johto had a suitable replacement. But cartridge place was definitely a factor

>>58029514
But, if it really was a "lack of space" problem, then why weren't some of those Kanto locations "restored" in Crystal?

This makes me think that, during the development of Gold and Silver, even if they had more space for those missing Kanto locations, they still wouldn't have added them.

>>58029606
because 3rd versions were literally always just cashgrabs

It couldhave been a cartridge spaceissue actually. We have to remember that only Crystal switched over to the larger capacity GBC carts and even then didn't use it to its full potential

>>58029624
Idk, personally I like third versions. Crystal added the first ever Battle Tower, and I think that's really significant and big. Also the first ever female Player Character.

>>58029490 (OP)
The super tight cartridge capacity is probably a myth as we know there's lots of unused content left in the ROM, but the reason they didn't restore more of Kanto in Crystal is just that it wasn't their priority at that point. They already accommodated for the missing parts in various ways, like spreading the old safari rares through other areas and destroying Cinnabar, and I think they wanted to focus on new stuff rather than backtracking on all those changes. I guess it would have been nice to have more Kanto dungeons to find the old legendaries in, but it's clearly an intentional design decision that a few rare old mons are exclusive the the time capsule, they could have always made the birds roamers if they wanted them to be available.

>>58029752
No, definitely, it's much preferable to play the version of the game that has all the pokemon, they're just also very definitely minimum saleable viability cashgrabs

>>58029756
I absolutely agree with you. Here is my theory:

The developers were having cartridge space issues BEFORE Iwata decompressed the game files, but NOT AFTER.

I don't think anyone has ever said that they STILL had cartridge space issues AFTER Iwata's intervention. So I think that's probably just a myth, like you said.

Also, a lot of the "missing" Kanto content in GSC seems to be missing for a good reason.

- the Safari Zone is closed because the Bug Catching Contest exists in Johto, so they thought that having both would be redundant
- Viridian Forest is much smaller to depict how industrialization is killing nature in Kanto
- Cerulean Cave is not accessible because it collapsed in that 2 year period
- Seafoam Islands not explorable because of Blaine's Gym being there
Etc.

All of these cases of "missing" content (as well as others) all make sense and illustrate the changes that happened in Kanto during these 2 years.

So I think everything was intentional. The only thing that I don't understand is why Pewter Museum is closed. It's relatively small and it could have been easily included.

>>58029903
I forgot about the museum being shut, that's a really sad loss. They could have tied it in with the unown stuff with a Ruins of Alph exhibit that grows based on your actions.

>>58029935
>I forgot about the museum being shut
Yeah. Why do you think it was shut? I think it was incredibly easy for them to add it of they wanted to.

Btw, your idea about the Known is great.

>>58029903
I think that's more a case of them writing around why those things aren't there, otherwise HGSS wouldn't have restored most of them. But the cinnabar volcano eruption makes for a good storytelling, and the abandoned mansion really wouldn't have served a purpose, so I can see why they left that as is

>>58029967
>otherwise HGSS wouldn't have restored most of them
I think HGSS restored most of those locations because it had a different director with a different vision (Morimoto), and also HGSS came out around 10 years later.

>>58030027
That's fair. Back then they didn't know Pokemon would last as long as it did, and I guess there had to be ways of obtaining pokemon like mewtwo for the 4th gen.
Sadly we can't really know the extent of their plans beyond the leaked prototypes and their datamined maps. The lack of Giovanni in gen 2 has always bothered me too. For being the OG big bad it feels so odd for him to just not show up period.

>>58030106
>The lack of Giovanni in gen 2 has always bothered me too
Yes, and I think it's even more strange that Giovanni didn't show up in HGSS either (outside of an event that most people probably didn't experience).

But in a way, I think that the absence of Giovanni in GSC/HGSS makes his persona even more mysterious. It raises the question of "where is Giovanni during the events of GSC/HGSS?"

>>58029960
>Known
Unown*

>>58030250
skipping out on alimony payments to silver's mom

>>58030250
Yeah, that's one way of looking at it. Maybe they wanted to keep some mysteries like that. Plus Silver is there so you see his influence or lack of in a more subtle way

>>58029490 (OP)
The Kanto region was planned all the way back in Spaceworld 97 but at the time was just going to be one big city. The next two years of development time was planned with doing the entire region in mind.

>>58030325
I feel like it says an awful lot that they focused more on Kanto and the post-game than making sure that Johto felt satisfying to go through. It's like they forgot they were working on a new generation and instead put a lot of their focus on fitting in Kanto.

>>58030295
Lol

>>58030298
Yes exactly

>>58030378
johto was well designed for what they wanted it to be

they really should have just scrapped the Kanto idea and focused on expanding Johto and included Mt. Silver + Red fight

First off, the "compression code" is not that. Iwata's code was to improve performance, loading times specifically. Thanks to his code, the game can load battles and wild encounters just fast enough so that it doesnt feel like a slog every time. DYKG of all people mention this and even show a comparison of a prototype that lacks this code and a copy of the game that does include it, the difference is definitely there so thanks to Iwata's code, we got less tedium, not more space.

As >>58030325 mentions here, Kanto was already planned, just in a very miniture version initially, and remember, Gen 2 was vastly different during the Tajiri days so its anyone's guess how a mini Kanto would work.

Personally, i think that its both tech limitations and time that lead to these locations being cut and/or altered. Gen 2 was in development since 1997 if not sooner, the main concept got scrapped, developers came and went and technology was both limiting yet evolving at a rapid pace. My guess is that once they had shaped an actual product, they didnt want to take any risks prologing the development further or going wild with additions. There was clear intent to restore locations like for example the Safari Zone but eventually didnt for reasons only they're aware of and while it is sad to miss these locations in the originals, at least the rest of what we have is sufficent and entertaining enough which doesnt feel like they went crazy and cut major parts that downgrade the experience.

>>58029490 (OP)
there is like 30 percent unused space on crystal. it was probably just dumbass devs being shit at bank switching in their code

>inb4 wacky deli retard