Was the original concept that pokemon traded genetics to get trade evos and they just scraped it after Golem and Machamp?

no

>>58112475 (OP)
It'd line up with the weird Bill moment where he and Clefairy do the thing.

>>58112475 (OP)
I don't see how Gengar or Alakazam swap anything designw-wise.

>>58112475 (OP)
I believe it. That's likely what Karrablast and Shelmet are referencing, considering Gen 5 retreaded Gen 1 ad nauseam.

>>58112507
That's when they scrapped it.

We can intuit if that's the case based on the internal list actually. While Pokemon constantly were changing designs (sometimes to the point of being replaced with another Pokemon in the line because apparently moving sprites was easier than changing stats), Pokemon that have a mechanical reason for existing seem to be designed around the same time (Snorlax and Mewtwo for story reasons, starters mostly next to each other as they finalized the concept, filler version exclusive grass types at the very end) so that's a reasonable indication. Unfortunately we have a problem there because Golem and Graveller were both designed fairly near each other and seemed to be unrelated, and the Machamp line is all over the place, but Machamp itself is later than every other part of the line. In addition, Haunter, Abra, and Alakazam were designed around the same time, which says to me they were filling out those lines with the intention of using them as trade evolutions. For the record, Gengar and Gastly have the same "designed really early and might have been unrelated" going on. Based on the evidence I've seen, your statement seems inconclusive at best.

>>58112511
holy shit I never thought about that. Gen 5 just confirmed what was the plan for the get-go.

>>58112475 (OP)
>they just scraped it after Golem and Machamp?
Apologize.

>>58112511
>>58112557
On the other hand, Gen 5 also literally has the only two "normal" trade evolutions as expies of Golem and Machamp, Gen 5 usually doesn't retread things twice.

Sigh

No, Graveler didn't have 4 arms, it was a later misinterpretation of the sprites(that came before the artwork) by Sugimori. What you think as the "lower arms" are the legs, what you think of as the feet are rugged texture of the boulder

Golem's arm-like legs

The ultimate fighting monster having 4 arms is a perfectly natural progression.

Here's goro, the final boss of mortal kombat

>>58112547
>>58112613
Holy shit, go the fuck back to R*ddit before I give you a swirly

>>58112547
> For the record, Gengar and Gastly have the same "designed really early and might have been unrelated" going on.


So you’re saying Gastly might have actually been a dead Cloyster for at least one millisecond during development, Like I originally thought as a kid?

For the bouldermon they may have been inspired by the kaiju takkong hence how silly OG golem looks

So yeah, there's no real design evidence of "hey lets mix the traits of these pokemon". The design endgame all makes sense without it the moment you realize Graveler doesn't have 4 arms + 2 legs

>>58112636
No, og Gastly wasn't even a black sphere, just a pile of smoke

>>58112475 (OP)
I was just thinking about these four again playing through FRLG. This makes so much sense and like >>58112502 said makes me think there was some pokemon fusion mechanic that got scrapped early on.
>>58112507
Gengar was designed well before it was made to be the final evolution of Ghastly/Haunter, and Alakazam is clearly the intended final evolution of the Abra line. The mechanic of trade evolutions came well after the pokemon designs.

>>58112475 (OP)

No and it's such a stupid theory cause you can trade any pokemon with a Graveler/Machoke and they'll still come out like this.

>>58112644
I don’t remember the exact kaiju name, it was probably this one, but I remember the story was the whole gimmick with Explosion and Self-Destruct was because this kaiju always blew itself up.


Just fucking reminds me, American millennials absolutely cannot comprehend that kaiju media beyond Godzilla exists.

>>58112677
>cause you can trade any pokemon with a Graveler/Machoke and they'll still come out like this.
You're missing the point, it's more of a nod to the concept of things going wrong during transfer than anything strict, otherwise there wouldn't be a discussion about it in the first place. It's like a reference to The Fly. As a previous anon said, there's also a nod to it with Bill.

Gen 1's full of those oddities

>>58112475 (OP)
>>58112507
Kadabra loses its tail which attaches to Gengar, and the ghostly malevolence created a baphomet.

Omg you guys I think Dragonair into Gyarados and Magikarp into Dragonite and Cubone is Kangaskhan baby

>>58112613
It's the opposite actually. Graveler and Golem were never meant to have legs. Just four arms. All four of their limbs are arms in the original sprites, which came before the Sugimori art. It's just that Sugimori either misinterpreted them as having both arms and legs (in the case of Graveler having legs in addition to its four arms) or he straight up decided to make these changes. It's the same case with Primeape being a literal explosion, even with bits of its body flying off, and Grimer and Muk being sludge zombies in the original Red and Green sprites.

>>58112757
Nat and Moth are irrelevant to each other in the index while the entire Caterpie line is clumped together. The recent thread gave me the theory that they originally intended to make Caterpie a Venomoth prevo but somebody decided to design a butterfly and they just rolled with it

It wouldn't make any sense for Venonat to evolve into Butterfree. Their JP names have zero relation to one-another and Butterfree is the same in JP so it's clearly intended to be a butterfly, meaning the larva would be a caterpillar

>>58112803
While probably unrelated to Gengar, regardless wow that's something else

When you start looking at the beta backsprites it becomes pretty apparent some Pokemon weren't designed to evolve into others and they were re-arranged later.

Some examples are the removed Wartortle evolution, continuing the wispy tail theme, and Blastoise either being a standalone, or having its own, removed prevo. Golem was an early design too and likely standalone.

>>58112475 (OP)
I suggested this years ago (back in the XY days) on here and people thought it was bullshit and I was looking too deep. I don't know though, I still think there might be something to it. It would contextualise why Machamp suddenly has four arms and why Golem suddenly loses a pair upon trade.

Maybe they thought that only being able to evolve Machoke and Graveller if they traded with each other was a bit too obtuse

>>58112475 (OP)
That's just gamefreak being lazy as usual
a shit ton of gen 1 pokemon have all the same traits like eyes tails or ears because of gamefreak's lack of creativity

>>58112507
kadabra cuts away its finger and tail as a blood sacrifice to gain transcendental knowledge from a demon - Haunter who wants to be bound to a physical body in this world

>>58113286
>its finger
?

>>58113083
>It wouldn't make any sense for Venonat to evolve into Butterfree. Their JP names have zero relation to one-another and Butterfree is the same in JP so it's clearly intended to be a butterfly, meaning the larva would be a caterpillar
The index stuff already disproves the theory but this is a dumb argument. By this logic it also doesn't make any sense for Venonat to be related to Venomoth because moth's also have caterpillar larvae.

>>58113337

>>58113352
>The index stuff already disproves the theory
The swap could be done before they were added to the game, when they were just drawings and concepts

>>58112753

Dude it's not that deep, they made trade evolutions to encourage trading between friends that's all it is, wild Golem and Machamp exist outside of being traded by humans so they're a natural evolution of them.

Like other anons have said, Graveler originally only had 2 arms but Sugimori mistook it's sprite as it's legs being extra arms and we already know the sprites came before the art so they just rolled with it.

>>58112803
I believe this

>>58112613
What you mean is that Graveler not having 4 arms is early installment weirdness.

>>58112475 (OP)
The concept was to stimulate use of the link cable, like literally anything in the game.

>>58112803
To add to this, Haunter gains a more "physical" kind of body and Kadabra loses mass.

>>58113804
>Kadabra loses mass
holy shit you're right, and gengar is super fucking heavy compared to haunter

I've been trading my machamp with hundreds of gravelers and it has thousands of arms now

>>58113804
>>58113819
It's almost like it makes total sense as natural progression of the lines without any dna mixing fanfiction

>Spectral being gaining physical form, we see how even pre-trade Haunter is already on its way to gain more concrete shape>>58113830

>The physical constitution of the mental power pokemon becomes weaker as its superbrain develops even more

God I fucking hate this board

>>58113859
no fun allowed

>>58113352
Problem is we already have examples of similar shit happening like when they removed Wartortle's evolution and Blastoise's prevo to merge the lines together. Dratini and Dragonair were also designed much later than Dragonite. Game Freak's system was usually "keep adding and yoink out if we don't need it" since the index was never really optimized to be NatDex order until Gen III, which is why certain MissingNo.s become Johtomons when traded

>>58113374
This was never the case, they designed the sprites before drawings or concepts. We know this, that's why proto-Clefairy is an ugly little thumb monster. Any official concept art would've been done after the sprites were done, which is why Vaporeon went from looking like a dog in RG to Sugimori's more cat-like design

>>58112644
>>58112694
The explosions part is inherited from a rock enemy from Dragon Quest, also both monsters are based on a Yokai which is something like a grinding mass that comes to life and rolls down the mountain and even if a traveler dodges it, it has arms with which it grabs the person and drags them to the bottom of the mountain, this was a way to explain why people appeared dead on the foothills of the mountains.

>>58113804
>>58113819
that's what he >>58113286 said

>>58113859
yeah bro the gooner threads are where it's at

>>58113919
>This was never the case
so you think they were just randomly creating sprites? they had to have some sketches or they were sketching their pixel arts first

>>58114218
It should also be added that Geodude is meant to represent the concept of a child's "pet rock" as well, which would explain why its name is "dude", which is meant to be an at least partially affectionate appellation.

Also, in case anyone didn't realize this: Graveler is gravel + grappler (grabbing people).

>>58112757
Magikarp -> Dragonite
Dratini -> Dragonair -> Gyarados

>>58114518
>Magikarp -> Dragonite
this barely makes sense
>Dratini -> Dragonair -> Gyarados
this doesn't make sense

unless there's development content that shows their bodies were more similar to each other than this alleged criss-cross ended up making them be, then there's no way this was actually the case
the mouths and the body textures are too distinct

>>58114534
>it doesn't makes b-because it just doesn't, okay?!!?!?!?!?
You
Fag
Lol

>>58114540
it doesn't because dragonair and nite share the same face and soft shapes, while magikarp and gyarados share the same detailed desgined and the same crown fin

>>58114540
learn to read, adhd victim

>>58114553
>yes, let me compare these finalized designs post-decision to swap their evolution line and use that as proof that they were always meant to be like this, ignoring that edits would've been made throughout the process

>>58114565
it's funny and sad how you're trying to make this argument when you completely dodged this post >>58114534 which already challenged you to provide that exact evidence to support your own obviously false assertions
your tard wrangler needs to install parental controls, you have no business being on here this retarded

>>58114218
Name of the yokai?

>>58112635
getting mad for no reason is a sign of low IQ