It's insane how close this is to an N64 game despite it being SNES.

In hindsight, Nintendo probably made the right call

Releasing this back in the day wouldn't have hurt Nintendo at all what a bunch of retards

>>11774794 (OP)
I always hated the graphics in the snes games. I was able to get past that and I was surprised how good the games actually are despite being ugly as sin. Especially the second one, some parts I thought were more fun than SF64. Nintendo fan boys would have ate this up though, they would have loved to say their system could do 3d like the psx and saturn(even if it looked closer to a jaguar game). I think it's funny that the board rules about official games released after December 2007 technically block this game because it's an official game that wasn't released til 2017 but this is obviously a 1995 game. Is there any difference between the leaked version that was around for years and the SNES classic one?

>>11774898
>Is there any difference between the leaked version that was around for years and the SNES classic one?
More polished so less bugs, different translation obviously, lock-on has to be acquired as a power-up from collecting Pepper Coins, and apparently the game is harder in general. Case in point, letting a battleship fire on Corneria does 50% damage instead of the beta's 3%, so you by all means cannot let them even get close.

>>11774898
>board rules about official games released after December 2007 technically block this game because it's an official game that wasn't released til 2017
the rules are about the console that the game is released for. the board allows you to post about brand new 2025 games made for retro consoles.

>>11774794 (OP)
>Low framerate
>Blurry graphics
>Looks bad
Gonna have to agree here.

>>11774898
>I always hated the graphics in the snes games.
If you don't like flat shaded polys you are an utterly disgusting failure of a human being.

>>11774898
wasn't officially released but prototype binaries have been circulating since 1999.

>>11774823
They said about the Wii, only helped it.
They said that about the Wii U, failed on another level but the hardware wasn't it, it was the marketing and branding that cause the Wii U to fail.
They said that about the Switch, only helped it.
Switch 2 would be the same.
Nintendo's market doesn't care or knows about hardware, If Star Fox 2 did see the light of day Nintendo market would've just saw a great game since they don't give 2 shits about what Sega and Sony were doing (since NEC by that time abandoned the mainstream gaming market by that point and became mostly (since the PC-FX was still supported until 1998) a parts supplier to Nintendo).

>>11775396
Someone attempted to steal a prototype from CES in 1995. It’s like they knew it wasn’t going to be released!

>>11775092
That's for homebrew and unofficial games. Official games from 2008 and beyond aren't allowee.

>>11774898
It's kind of neat to see how much of it was yoinked and reworked for Star Fox 64. And true form Andross is kind of impressive visually to me considering the game up until then is abstract polygonal weirdness.

>>11775434
The market conditions of 1995 are not the market conditions of 2025. In 1995 Nintendo was actually put on guard by SEGA and SONY as the Genesis had been able to dethrone the SNES in North America and SONY was about to release the PSX. Nintendo's "market" had moved on by then and Nintendo wanted to hype up the N64 as the home of new 3D games, not the SNES.

Nintendo itself did not think it was viable.

>>11774794 (OP)
I hate when consoles reach the end of their cycle and have great games that enhance everything you love about the games, but they abandon the format to sell you the new console.

Star Fox 2 on SNES would've allowed people to directly compare graphics to 64, which would've showed how much more advanced the 64 was (selling the console to more people).

Nintendo is stupid.

>>11775460
Correct. It’s not something you think about when you can just download it for free or play for dirt cheap on the NSO, but thinking people weren’t going to roll their eyes at it when we were starting to get real 3-D games is ridiculous.

>>11774794 (OP)
Really hot take but I prefer this game over star fox 1 and 64.
I really prefer the strategy approach this game has as it actively makes me feel like I'm fighting a war and really trying to protect the galaxy.
I personally think it's just more thematically fitting and I would love if they brought back this gameplay style if they ever decide to continue the star fox series.
I also think Star Fox guard is severely underrated. It's a really good tower defense game with a fnaf camera mechanic.

>>11775463
>Super FX2 chips don't cost money in 1996
>Console that's much powerful than the SNES is about to come out with cart manufacturing cheaper than SNES games

I still don't understand why Street Fighter Alpha 2 was SNES only and not on N64. Was it because the N64 was supposed to only have 3D games on it?

>>11775460
If they were the case the Super NES would've been clocked at 14.32MHz instead of 3.58 and had a 16-Bit data bus to be in the same field as Sega and NEC, but instead they kept the CPU slow just so companies like Micronics wouldn't flood the market with poorly optimized software programed in C that was just fortune telling software and horse betting simulators that flooded the NES.

That and using 512KB of SDRam running at 25.6MBs, 256KB of VRam, 256KB of sound ram, sprite scaling out of the box, built in DPS chip (PPU3,), bitmap support out of the box and 16 channels of ADPCM audio.

Nintendo's market didn't care.

This was the same company who rejected Hudson's 16-Bit chipset because they were making their own, allowing NEC to buy said ship set and made changes to it and turn it into the PC Engine.

If Nintendo had that mind set they would've bought Hudson's chip set and released it as the Neo Famicom/NES and let the Super NES bake in the oven for a few more years rather then releasing it in the state it was in.

>>11775472
Then you idiots would come and ask wheres alpha one or even better zero3

>>11775483
No, a lot of that had to do with early proposals of backwards compatibility with the Famicom. LoROM and HiROM were just ways to keep cart manufacturing cheaper. They were forced to create a 16 bit system by the market like how they were forced to create a 32 bit system.

Also in Japan Nintendo was nearly dethroned in the NES days by the PC Engine, in the USA they were dethroned by the Genesis and later the PSX. Nintendo's market absolutely did care.

>>11775496
Nintendo started Super NES development immediately after the original Super Mario Bros was finished, and yes cost did have a factor in the slow speed but the Super NES has so many unused pins in it's CPU that a 16-Bit data but replacing the unused JPIO pins with a larger data bus would've kept the cost the same while also speeding up the CPU at the same time.

The only time Nintendo's market sort of cared was with the Wii U with it's droughts, and that was mitigated with the 3DS.

Super Mario Bros 3 kept Nintendo relevant in a post PC Engine world as it was release so closely to the Mega Drive.
Super Mario World kept Nintendo relevant in a post Sonic world.
Rare and later Pokémon kept Nintendo relevant in a post PS1 world.
Waggle kept Nintendo relevant in a post HD world.

>>11775537
>Nintendo started Super NES development immediately after the original Super Mario Bros was finished

No, they started in 1987.

>Super Mario World kept Nintendo relevant in a post Sonic world.

>Super Mario Bros 3 kept Nintendo relevant in a post PC Engine world

SMB3 began development in 86 and was released about a year before the PC Engine was released. Even then the PC Engine was extremely popular in Japan.

>Super Mario World kept Nintendo relevant in a post Sonic world.


SMW began development before Sonic and was released 6 months beforehand. Even then the Mega Drive really never mattered that much in Japan. Sonic commercials in the USA highlighted how much faster Sonic was than SMW was anyway. And of course in the USA SEGA outsold Nintendo.

>Rare and later Pokémon kept Nintendo relevant in a post PS1 world.

The N64 did not sell as well as the PSX BY FAR and Pokemon has historically just been a handheld thing.

I have no idea what a Waggie is.

>>11774809
Nah, if Star Fox 2 had been released then it's likelier that Star Fox 64 wouldn't have been a hard-reboot, and doing that seemed innocuous at the time but was really the beginning of the end.

>>11775546
Er, I was a bit off. SMB3 was released about a year after the PC Engine was released, but it did start development in 86, after SMB2 was released in Japan.

Still, the NES was aging and it showed, esp against the PC Engine and the Mega Drive.

>>11775546
Nintendo already said multiple time themselves that the Super NES started development immediately after the original Super Mario Bros was finished, and that was in 1985.

They went to 16-Bit because Nintendo caught wind of the 65816 getting released in 1985 and Nintendo wanting to make a system with that chip to maintain NES BC before getting scrapped due to legal issues with Commodore.

Waggle = Wii Remote.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Waggle

>>11775560
>Nintendo already said multiple time themselves that the Super NES started development immediately after the original Super Mario Bros was finished, and that was in 1985.

I've never seen a source that said that. Hudson gave them the option to buy what became the PC Engine stuff at about that time and the earliest SNES development stuff I've been able to find dates back to 87.

>They went to 16-Bit because Nintendo caught wind of the 65816 getting released in 1985 and Nintendo wanting to make a system with that chip to maintain NES BC before getting scrapped due to legal issues with Commodore.

Oh god, is this the Sharp schizo? There were never any legal issues between Nintendo on Commodore. The company that manufactured 6502s in Japan was either Ricoh, Sharp, or NEC.

>>11774823
It would have hurt Star Fox 64, which was very likely already in production by that point. People would have hated going back to the original's bland gameplay after Star Fox 2 expanded so much over it. So the ego tripping japs at Nintendo decided to cancel the brand new gaijin game and keep the nippon rehash so they wouldn't look bad.

>>11775565
Nintendo said that themselves.
>Mario was set to be the last NES game we did as right after Mario was finished we started development on our next console which was the Super NES.

The Super NES had the binary decimal mode that was cut on the NES, retaining NES support while keeping it's binary decimal mode would've flagged Commodore's legal department so Nintendo removed BC just so Commodore wouldn't get any royalties for the Super NES (let alone getting sued by Commodore) as the 65816 was a unlicensed clone that doubled as a 16-Bit upgrade of the 6502 which Commodore did own the rights to as they owned MOS.

StarFox blew my face off. I had played DOS games with similar style 3D graphics, but they ran at about half a frame a second. It was sooo cool and the music is memorable.
I cannot replay it past 2 levels today, it's so choppy.
If, hypothetically, SF2 coming out meant we wouldn't get SF64, I'd pick getting 64 every time. Still cool.

>>11775594
Except they didn't.

SMB was supposed to be the last Famicom *cart* game. I have found exactly no sources that state that Nintendo was working on the SNES pre 1987.


> retaining NES support while keeping it's binary decimal mode would've flagged Commodore's legal department

No, it's because it was cheaper to manufacture 6502s without the relevant bits.

>Nintendo removed BC just so Commodore wouldn't get any royalties for the Super NES

No, that wasn't why.

>as the 65816 was a unlicensed clone that doubled as a 16-Bit upgrade of the 6502 which Commodore did own the rights to as they owned MOS

Didn't stop Apple.

Nintendo weren't the ones manufacturing these.

Do you have a single source for any of this or are you just going to flail your hands and scream IT'S IN THE GIGALEAK without posting any documents?

>>11775639
No, it was supposed to be the last Famicom game period, if it were not for the 1983 video game crash the Super Famicom would've saw released in 1986/late 1985... but would be a different device then what we got (a 65816 based NES running at 3.58MHz with a RGB PPU, 128 16x16 sprites and a YM2164 based FM chip with a dedicate 16-bit address bus to cut back on CPU cycles, among other things like more colors on screen).

Nintendo removed the binary decimal mode to avoid paying Commodore royalties.

>Apple.
Apple also paid royalties to Commodore for their 6502 feature set, Nintendo did everything they could to avoid giving Commodore a single cent.

>>11775639
>>11775695
1987 is where THIRD PARTIES got Super NES dev kits, and the hardware was different then what we got at retail.
Nintendo started Super NES development immediately after Super Mario Bros was finished.

>>11775695
>No, it was supposed to be the last Famicom game period, if it were not for the 1983 video game crash

What the shit are you talking about? Famicom wasn't in development till 83, late 82 at the earliest.

You know nothing.

>Apple also paid royalties to Commodore for their 6502 feature set

No, Apple paid WDC which designed the CPU for the Apple IIGS. Commodore didn't get anything.

>1987 is where THIRD PARTIES got Super NES dev kits, and the hardware was different then what we got at retail.

No, the SNES wasn't in development till 87. I can't find a source that has an earlier date. Surely you have one?

>>11775595
Star Fox runs like that too. I've never managed to play through the first stage. The frame rate makes it basically unplayable.

>>11775715
Famicom started development in 1982, if not late 1981 after see what America had to offer in terms of home consoles.

The 65816 was a WDC design but the feature set for 6502 BC (namely binary decimal mode) was own by Commodore hence why they had to get paid royalties until they went out of business in 1994.

Nintendo said themselves that they started development of the Super NES right after Super Mario Bros was finished due to the release of the 65816, multiple times in fact.

>>11775747
It didn't start in 81. Depending on the source it either started development in earnest after Sep 82 or Jan 83. The designers were expressly told to draw on the Coleco for inspiration as it provided the closest to the arcade best port of Donkey Kong at the time.

>The 65816 was a WDC design but the feature set for 6502 BC (namely binary decimal mode) was own by Commodore hence why they had to get paid royalties until they went out of business in 1994.

It had nothing to do with Commodore and Apple didn't pay Commodore shit.

>Nintendo said themselves that they started development of the Super NES right after Super Mario Bros was finished due to the release of the 65816, multiple times in fact.

Good; please provide me with a source. Nintendo said that SMB was meant to be the last Famicom cart game. There is no information about this on the western Web. Where are you getting this from?

>>11775594
Taiwanese Famiclones had no issues with having working BCD mode, some of their games wouldn't even run on a real NES because they used it.

>>11775753
They had a working model in 1982 and it was the 2600 that Nintendo told their staff to "put to shame", not the Colecovision.

It had everything to do with Commodore, otherwise the Apple IIGS wouldn't had BC with the Apple II(e).

They said last Famicom game, not last Famicom cart game, the Disk System was never treated as a next gen system, it was always treated as a same gen add on like the Sega CD or the CD-Rom2.

When Nintendo said next system they were talking about the Super NES and even said the Super NES itself, NOT THE DISK SYSTEM!!!!

>Mario was set to be the last NES game we did as right after Mario was finished we started development on our next console which was the Super NES.
Nowhere does it say Disk System.

the 65816 started as a bootleg expansion of the 6502 that Apple commissioned WDC to produce for the IIgs but it wasn't a very good chip; the layout was done by one guy and his wife in their living room and they couldn't get it to run over 2Mhz. also there was still no hardware multiply/divide--the SNES CPU didn't have that either although some cartridge chips added one. Nintendo used it mainly for cost and the planned but not actually realized backward compatibility with the Famicom.

>>11775771
They had 8MHz 65816 chips in 1985 but Steve Jobs rejected such a speed so the Macintosh can still have a chance of selling.

>>11775765
>They had a working model in 1982

Based on what?

>and it was the 2600 that Nintendo told their staff to "put to shame"

No, it was the Coleco and Donkey Kong on the Coleco didn't ship till Aug 83.

>It had everything to do with Commodore, otherwise the Apple IIGS wouldn't had BC with the Apple II(e).

That's not true at all.

>They said last Famicom game, not last Famicom cart game

No, it was expressly stated last Famicom cart game. SMB was meant to be a swan song to the Famicom to try to push everyone to the Disk System. SMB2 was on the Disk System, for example.

>When Nintendo said next system they were talking about the Super NES and even said the Super NES itself, NOT THE DISK SYSTEM!!!!

Weird how everyone in Japan considered that they were talking about the Disk System then.

>Mario was set to be the last NES game we did as right after Mario was finished we started development on our next console which was the Super NES.

Post your source for this because it's not showing up on the Google machine with that exact quote.

Miyamoto on this:

It's now the 20th year aniversary of Super Mario Bros, could you please tell us a little about the birth of that game?

Miyamoto: At that time when I was making this game, I actually got the reaction "Mario again?" from people in the company. He had already made lots of appearances in games up to that point. It was already about 2 years since the Famicom was released, and this was a time when we were about to migrate to the Disk System, so for that reason we made it as a final cartridge game and a Disk System game at the same time... And that's the real story (laugh).

Translation taken from a Nesdev thread, it was from Miyamoto-san.

I always got the impression that Nintendo didn't bother with a next-gen console until at least 1987 when they knew Sega was working on one and then panicked and started a crash program to design one. the SNES came out 1990, it would seem kind of a stretch to think they could have started design work half a decade earlier.

>>11775775
that's a pop journalism meme. the problems with the 65816's design are well-documented. it was a sloppy die layout and the chip had some very long signal paths that made it difficult to get above 2Mhz.

The FDS came about because mask ROMs at that time capped out at 32k and Nintendo underestimated how fast larger ones would come out.

>>11774794 (OP)
For how complete it was as a prototype it was still quite unfinished and no doubt if it did come out we would praise it but laso say how unfinished it feels and would have hurt things in the long run

Coming out of the gate with Star Fox 64 after the original on the SNES was the best choice

>>11775753
the Famicom was in development about a year roughly so work would have started in the summer of 1982 and they had a wire-wrapped proto by the fall months of which there are photos.

>>11775779
Previous Gigaleak threads from when it happened.

Yes, it is true, stop being delulu.

They never said cart game, only game, get that through your think skull.
The Super NES wasn't a rush hack job caused by the PC Engine eating up to much of Nintendo's market share, Nintendo rejected Hudson's chip set because they were making their own 16-Bit chip set since 1985, NOT BECAUSE THE FAMICOM WAS STILL SELLING WELL!!!

Even Japan knew that Nintendo was talking about the Super NES, Disk System was treated as a add-on like the Cd-Rom2 and Sega CD.

Miyamoto never said that.
>>11775789
That was already debunked decades ago, 8MHz 65816 chips did exist back then and if Steve Jobs didn't but in and the Mac didn't exist the Apple IIGS would've had a 8MHz CPU instead of the 2.8MHz CPU it did get just to make the Mac look good.

>>11775806
>previous gigaleak threads

Oh, so you're not going to post a source, ever, just flail your hands and scream GIGALEAK without posting links to any documents or screencaps.

>>11775792
Larger roms did exist but were expensive to make and Disk System was created to match the allowance kids at the time were getting, problem was that Nintendo didn't know that these larger mask roms were going to plumet in price because if they did knew the Disk System would've never got created.

Oh, for anyone else reading who wants a source

https://web.archive.org/web/20051104074617/https://www.nintendo.co.jp/nom/0510/interv/index.html is apparently where it's from, according to a thread on nesdev

https://forums.nesdev.org/viewtopic.php?t=19306

There also is absolutely no proof Nintendo was working on a SNES in 1985, Miyamoto outright said they were talking about the Disk System.

Nintendo rejected Hudson Soft's chipset because they'd have to pay them royalties, similar to why there wasn't a Nintendo PlayStation.

>>11775810
With the Mario thing Nintendo themselves already said multiple times that the Super NES started development after finishing Super Mario Bros.

Hudson's chip set got rejected by Nintendo because Nintendo was making their own 16-Bit chip set, if the Super NES didn't start development by that time they would've immediately picked it up and release it as the Neo Famicom/NES (as proven here as Nintendo was thinking about it, allowing the Super NES more time in the oven) as the NES hardware was already 4 years old by that point.

>>11775815
That ended up being a badly mangled translation to something unrelated.

Miyamoto said Super NES, not Disk System as that was treated as a add-on.

Nintendo was already paying Ricoh (and later Sharp, NEC, Sony (for the S-SMP audio subsystem originally designed for Sony's News computers), ArtX/ATI/AMD, IBM, Nvidia and lately Samsung) royalties for their chipset/parts, Hudson would've just been part of the parts suppliers Nintendo was using.

>>11775825
>Nintendo themselves already said multiple times that the Super NES started development after finishing Super Mario Bros

Where?

>Hudson's chip set got rejected by Nintendo because Nintendo was making their own 16-Bit chip set

Not according to Hudson Soft.

>>11775825
What is that supposed to prove? The purplish/pink part are all rejected titles for the Famicom. There's no dates on it either.

>>11775815
take off the trip faggot

>>11775834
It's not mangled, he's expressly referring to the Disk System.

>宮本:当時、スーパーマリオを作っている時は、社内からは「またマリオ?」と言われていたんですよ。それまでにもたくさんのソフトに出演していましたし。ファミコンが出て約2年が経過し、ディスクシステムへ移行しようという時で、カセットでの最後のゲームとしてディスクシステム用のゲームと同時に作っていた物…というのが本当のところです(笑)。

Is it not the "disk system" because the kana given is "disuku shisystemu"?

>>11775836
Hudson said that their chip set got rejected due to Nintendo making their own 16-Bit chipset.

The pink part are all rejected hardware releases and rejected names, notice that the Ultra Famicom/NES is there and that came out as the N64 due to legal issues with Konami.

1 was a rejected localization (The Miracle Famicom was the Japanese localization of the Miracle Piano that got canceled due to the piano having low sales in North America).

>>11775846
Unrelated and came from a unrelated satire blog.

THE SUPER NES WASN'T A RUSH JOB CAUSED BY THE PC ENGINE EATING UP TOO MUCH OF NINTENDO MARKET SHARE!!!!

>>11775854
No, HS said it had to do with Nintendo rejecting it due to royalties.

>The pink part are all rejected hardware releases and rejected names, notice that the Ultra Famicom/NES is there and that came out as the N64 due to legal issues with Konami.

Literally no dates on it. Also why would the Ultra Famicom draw ire from Konami, Ultra Games hadn't existed until well after the NES was released in North America.

>1 was a rejected localization (The Miracle Famicom was the Japanese localization of the Miracle Piano that got canceled due to the piano having low sales in North America).

What Japanese localization of the "Miracle Piano," you have a source for that right? There was already a Konami one for the Disk System.

>>11775857
That's not a satire blog, that's an archive of an official Nintendo page.

The Super NES wasn't in development in 85. Take the L.

>>11775870
Hudson said it was because Nintendo had their own 16-Bit chip set in the making, otherwise they would've picked it up right away.

That names chart came from the Gigaleak.

The Konami piano was a different product.

Also Nintendo did say Super NES, they started development on the Super NES right after Mario was finished as they said next gen, not add on, so yes, they were talking about the Super NES and it did start development in 1985 because that was the year the 65816 was released.

>>11775891
>Hudson said it was because Nintendo had their own 16-Bit chip set in the making, otherwise they would've picked it up right away.


Not from the sources I've read. Care to post one?

>That names chart came from the Gigaleak.

Name charts with no dates.

>Also Nintendo did say Super NES

Where?

> they said next gen, not add on

No, they expressly said Disk System.

> it did start development in 1985 because that was the year the 65816 was released

Not according to any source up to and including Yamauchi, who rather seemed to abruptly announce it to the press in 87. Where are your sources for 85?

>>11775896
They didn't say Disk System.

>Where are your sources for 85?
Nintendo said so themselves.
>Mario was set to be the last NES game we did as right after Mario was finished we started development on our next console which was the Super NES.

Disk System was a stop gap add on.

>>11775907
No, what Miyamoto said as quoted in that interview was expressly Disk System. Nothing about the SNES was hinted at in 1985, and the press releases given to the Japanese media at that time was about shifting development to the Disk System.

>>11775784
>I always got the impression that Nintendo didn't bother with a next-gen console until at least 1987 when they knew Sega was working on one and then panicked
Isn't that basically true? The NEC PC-Engine too. They planned to milk the Famicom for much longer until they realized there was finally more competition

>>11775925
Yes it was, they straight up said "Our next system the Super NES".
>>11775928
No, they were already making their on 16-Bit system hence why they rejected Hudson's 16-Bit system.

>>11775937
>Yes it was, they straight up said "Our next system the Super NES".

Where? Use a source from 1985.

>>11775813
they underestimated the rapid adoption of the 1.5 μm process by the industry which allowed cheaper mask ROMs and soon 128k chips

>>11775937
The PCE was not a 16-bit console, it was 8-bit. Hudson did propose an enhanced Famicom that would have been like the Gameboy Color to the Gameboy (improved but still 8-bit) and Nintendo declined the idea so they got NEC to build the thing instead.

>>11775962
CPU was 8-Bit yes, but the PPU was 16-Bit and the PC-Engine by design was already a enhanced Famicom.

>>11775962
>The PCE was not a 16-bit console, it was 8-bit
Yes. Still 8-bit, still needed bank switching as the CPU could only address 64k of memory and HuCard games ran from 64k to 512k in size. The graphics were still also single scroll layer and there weren't multiple planes.

>>11775976
The address bus was 21-Bit, meaning that rom sizes could go up to 2MB before you needed bank switching.

>>11775434
normies didnt even know what Wii U was.
I was talking to a cod"bro" the other day about great video game systems.
He was listing off x360 and ps3 because that was his only frame of reference for video games and I asked him about the Wii and he was going off
>oh ya I loved that especially the sports pack in game I played it with my girl all the time back in the day
I asked him about Wii U and he had no clue what it even was. This guy spends 1000s on madden, mlb the show, and nba in game currency every year.

The normies just don't know anything about most consoles.

>>11775986
3DS carried Nintendo during the Wii U days, the marketing and branding is what killed the Wii U.

>>11775984
not him but i don't think they ever made HuCard games over 512k for cost reasons that was why they had the PCE CD, for the larger stuff

>>11775992
Konami used 1MB HuCards and Street Fighter 2 used a 2.5MB HuCard (through bank switching).

Bomberman 94 and Bonk 3 were both 1MB HuCards.

yeah i'm not buying it either that work on the SNES started in 1985 and they had the first dev kits out in '87. i know this isn't true because work on SMW began in '88 and they were still developing on prototype units that didn't have the final design nailed down. p. sure third parties didn't get dev kits until late '89.

>>11776007
Nintendo works on hardware design before they work on it's games.

Miyu > > > > > Krystal > > > Fei

>>11776007
"Dev kit" in this context just meant a programming manual and it was up to the developer to otherwise make all their own tools. A proper dev kit in the sense we know it today began with the PS1.

>>11776048
The Super NES had proper dev kits made by Intelligent Systems.

>>11776048
The Saturn had dev kits and it was really poorly designed because it required you to remove the CPU from the socket to plug part of the dev kit in.

>>11776020
This is from an era when Nintendo didn't even know how to make 3d games. Literally Starfox and Argonaut was one of their first dabbles into it. They had a 17 year old show them how a gameboy could run rudimentary 3d and it blew Gunpei away. They call starfox a tech demo but the only tech it demonstrates is one that wasn't even theirs and is simply a coping mechanism around their impotent system (the fx chip).

>>11776048
>>11776051
"Dev Kit" means "You maybe get one a year after release and even then it's really expensive".

>>11776612
indeed. most of the time all you actually got from Nintendo or Sega was a programming manual to explain what the hardware registers and memory map did and it was up to you to do all the rest. if you were a Western developer you got a poorly translated Engrish manual that was hard to figure out. Sony made the unprecedented move of offering a full dev kit to every developer that was easy to use and they also had a tech support hotline in case you needed help with something.

>>11774794 (OP)
Would this run on a normal SNES? I'd like to try it on my N3DS.

>>11776620
Yes, homebrew carts using the Super FX chip were made.
>>11776617
The Game Boy ands Super NES had proper dev hardware that was documented in English.

It was the N64 that was badly documented and was so badly documented that when it came to NSO's N64 emulator iQue had to look at the N64 MiSTer core just to look up any documentation for the N64 because Nintendo didn't bother to to create any documentation for the N64 and had to resort to homebrew efforts through FPGA just to make the emulator work properly.

>>11776620
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnxxu2lEC_I

Argonaut got fucked over, but at the end of the day whether or not Star Fox 2 was murdered so 64 could be propelled, it still ultimately saw its way to us, so we get two cakes regardless now and a fun piece of what-if history to showcase.

wasn't the Saturn also horribly documented?

>>11774823
This was in the day of $80 games. Star Fox would've been cannibalized by Super Mario 64.

>>11776639
>and a fun piece of what-if history to showcase.
Yes though a 90's SNES cover for Star Fox 2 would've absolutely not looked like that. Wish they put in a little more effort, maybe some movie poster-like painting or whip out the puppets instead of gone for glorified fanart

>>11774823
>Oh shit we only have one launch title for the first year
>and uhhh...what for the next?
>...well we had OoT but Shiggy delayed it a year because Banjo-Kazooie made him sweat
What actually hurt them more was the fact that someone leaked a SF2 ROM in 2002 revealing it really was just SF64 upscaled the entire time and that we've been emulating a game console players couldn't play until they finally finished that last 5% in 2017 for NSO. and now it's happening all over again with DP , it's like the series is a tech demo for figuring out how much their fans will demolish the tech

>>11776639
You got one good cake and everyone since has been carrot cakes.

>>11775721
There are rom hacks that improve the framerate, obviously they only run on emulators

>>11775987
The Wii U is the reason the switch 2 is just called the switch 2 instead of being called "NEW! Switch XL"

How do the rts elements in star fox 2 compare to commands attempt at them?

>>11778134
And we don't know how thats going to turn out since even the Wii U sold out at launch.
We could get another PS2 or another Wii U situation depending of how normies view the box.

>>11774794 (OP)
That's cos it wasn't on the SNES, it was the SNES 2 i.e. Super FX 2 chip.

>>11778392
Star Fox 2 uses the original Super FX chip, the only thing that the Super FX 2 chip does thats different from the original is have 2MB of rom space while the original can only do 1MB of rom space.

>>11775472
Sprites were textured quads. 2d images slapped onto 3d models. The N64 had no native sprite layer or fast tilemap hardware like older consoles. That's why 2d only games were pretty shit and devs didn't bother as it was a pain in the ass.

>>11775937
>Yes it was, they straight up said "Our next system the Super NES".
Very interesting, can you give me a source for this claim?

>>11779917
Nintendo said this themselves multiple times.

>>11779990
Can you give me any evidence of this? If you continue to avoid posting proof I will assume you are lying about everything.

>>11780072
https://web.archive.org/web/20091215062341/http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/nsmb/vol2_page3.jsp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7SJ93jHqls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLPPsxjzRnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VBjikK8-A4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glC3zXaJjtQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umor_RMGqFw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BckM0G9QFhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drUoa1G39P4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOdvEaKTew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YEC2isxtVo

>>11780235
I watched all the videos and it never said what you claimed. You are a faggot liar, I'm not sure why you waste your time doing this, not a single person believes you.

>>11780465
https://web.archive.org/web/20091215062341/http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/nsmb/vol2_page3.jsp Did brought it up.

>>11780474
Yes he did, you're the most autistic person on this website. Nobody is falling for your bullshit, take your meds.

>>11780481
You're the one who needs meds here.

The Super NES started development right after Super Mario Bros was finished.

It was not a rush job that started in late 1988 because Super Mario Bros 3 failed to gain back the market share that was stolen by the PC-Engine and all the screen shot in the December 1988 issue of Famitsu were all bullshots sourced from a FMR computer with a graphics card designed for arcade development and all Nintendo had was a empty shell until December of 1989 where they had a in house dev kit and retail models were not ready until March of 1990 with the final design done by June of 1990.

>>11780494
That's retarded and you have no proof. You are a liar.

>>11774794 (OP)
This game's fun as fuck, easily surpasses 64 and any other title in the series imo. The strategy and time attack elements really elevate the barebones arcade flight shooting. If they ever stop sitting on the IP I'd happily buy a budget remaster or recreation of the two SNES games, but knowing Nintendo the fuckers would try to charge full price.

>>11780504
YES I DO!!!!
https://web.archive.org/web/20091215062324/http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/nsmb/vol2_page1.jsp
https://web.archive.org/web/20091215062336/http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/nsmb/vol2_page2.jsp
https://web.archive.org/web/20091215062341/http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/nsmb/vol2_page3.jsp

>>11780521
Nothing in any of these interviews backs up what you are saying you liar.

>>11780529
YES THEY ARE!!!!
FUCK OFF BARNEYFAG!!!!

>>11776025
The proto sheep was best girl of all, I'm sad she didn't make it to the final build. Fay's cute, but a dog pilot feels lazy and superfluous when Pepper, Bill, and all the other generic Cornerians are also dogs.

>>11780517
>wanting ANOTHER remake of the first one
were 64, 64 3D and Zero not enough?

>>11774794 (OP)
It's a 30 minute game.

>>11775556
>>11774809
>>11774794 (OP)
Yeah, the problem with rebooting with the 64 is that it left Star Fox without a consistent identity. It'd be like if Mario never progressed beyond SMB1 and just kept repeating it, over and over again. You can just look at the 'New' SMB era to see how that turned out for them.

Star Fox 2 would have been the groundwork for future star fox games not only in gameplay and mechanics but in storyline. Fay and Miyu would have been staples to the roster, the game's story could have expanded passed Andross without the Dinosaur Planet baggage holding them down, and they would have had a proper example of how characters, male and female, should look within the series for future roster inputs, unlike Katt and Krystal who feel so lazy in design by comparison.

It overall would have dramatically improved the quality of the series. Even if they decided to instead port it to the N64, it would have been better than getting the first in a long line of failed SF reboots we have now

>>11775471
Yeah it felt like a proper expansion of the game's systems, like you could imagine future star fox games using that system, polishing it, building star fox into a sort of rail shooter rpg that would have had the systems required to expand the concept. No wonder they hit a brick wall after N64: Ditching SF2's systems was a terrible decision

>>11781117
I really wish Star Fox had a system where you could find and recruit pilots like her. Sure keep the game with 4 pilots at a time, but allowing you to mix and match them and getting different results based on how well they interact with their team could lead to a lot of fun mechanics and add to replay value, which had always been Star Fox's biggest strength

>>11781128
not op but I wouldnt want a remake, more just an optimization and HD release of both games together. No more slowdown, etc

>>11775461
technology unironically progressed too fast in the 90's and 00's. every era only had like 2-3 years of solid game releases before the next one started and everything went back to mostly jank

>>11781413
That would be dope. I love the idea of Star Fox expanding into a proper mercenary company, where you can hire and assign numerous pilots to create multiple squads for multiple missions. Just like 2, or I guess more accurately Command with its several characters on the map at once, but instead of individual ships you send out whole teams of four, trying to cultivate synergy between combinations of different ships and abilities and items.

>>11781448
As proof NES Batman versus Mega Drive Batman. The former is a really polished game on mature hardware that had been around for years while the latter is a clumsy game on a new platform that they don't have a handle on yet.

>>11785285
You're thinking of Genesis Batman Returns which was a western developed game, Sunsoft Genesis Batman was a excellent game, just like it's NES counterpart.

>>11782415
>>11785278
>>11785282
>>11785283
Still don't look cool enough for me

>>11785310
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8t0hv4ACJM

It's a decent game but it's also an early one from 1990 and looks like a more colorful NES game.

>>11785569
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TySHiSxdkyQ
This fits the bill of "more colorful NES game" then the Genesis version.

>>11774794 (OP)
Starfox 64 is much better

It's a shame it was cancelled, I liked that it tried to expand the roster and especially loved the concept that the characters had different ships with different stats rather than all of them being the same, not to mention that they can transform into a walker.

Feels like if it had come out then the Star Fox games might have actually had some better ideas for continuity rather than the very next Star Fox game being essentially a reboot of the first one (who the hell reboots a franchise right after the first entry?)... and then the next game being Doki Dokied from a Zelda-like... with the most recent Star Fox game being yet ANOTHER reboot while also trying to make it act like a tech demo for a gimmicky controller nobody asked for.

Star Fox 2 never being released in the 90s feels like a bad future timeline for the series.

>>11778457
>Star Fox 2 uses the original Super FX chip
The "original" FX chip, as in the one used in Star Fox 1, would run the game too slow. Star Fox 1 had a version of the FX chip that ran at half the clock speed of any other FX game ever released.

>>11786407
That was the M.A.R.I.O Chip that was used on the original Star Fox, the precursor to the Super FX chip which was used on Stunt Race FX.

>>11785708
I've played the game and it was strangely addicting for a while. then I put it down and never picked it up again. its just not batman enough for me

>>11774898
I agree for the most part here, something is crappy about snes graphics overall, ya there are a few games here and there that were still good and fun but in my opinion they lost something after their first console with creativity and originality

my only guess is that sega took it somehow because their games were still good after nes

>>11786391
It's an interesting What If? to think about how differently the franchise would have progressed had SF2 been released at the time.
Like would SF64 have still been a reboot? Or perhaps a sequel to SF2's narrative?
stuff like that.

>>11781117
>one of the scrapped wingmen for SC2 was a black female human
So this franchise really was just a subtle rip-off of Bucky o'Hare afterall?

>>11787395
Star Fox is secretly an Albedo Anthropomorphics rip off

>>11786593
It was a variant of the FX chip called the MARIO-1 chip, it wasn't an entirely different chip. It was still a FX chip, just an early one. The game being "powered" by the FX chip was in all of it's advertising and written on the label itself.

>>11787285
I like to think SF64 would have come out later and likely tried to continue the narrative instead of be a reboot.

>>11787395
We have no idea what her skin color would have been, we only have a sketch of her (and several other concept characters) without a pallet. She could have been white, black, or even an alien with green, blue, or whatever skin.

There wasn't even just one human character, there was two with different hairstyles. Some assume the one with wavy hair would have been black, possibly, but we don't know for sure because we don't have a color palette for her. Some of the palettes that we do have are even wrong, such as Slippy's that depict him as blue instead of green.

>>11787632
(Personally, I liked the design of that character that's right below fox in the above image)

>>11787635
This one shows her with white skin, but again, we have no way of knowing for sure if that was intended or if her pallet is wrong and she was supposed to have dark skin considering that Slippy's palette is clearly wrong.

>>11787632
>>11787635
>>11787636
I feel like the human lady very well could've been a placeholder, like done for fun as a reminder to make the other new pilot a girl as well or something, but the variety of design concepts and seprate sprite styles for both the pilot select screen and the in-game text boxes (pic related was discovered in a build years before the gigaleak) makes me uncertain, so maybe she really was considered for the final product.

I would've been down with it, I've always liked settings where humans are just kinda "there" and interspersed without making a big deal out of it.

>>11788495
>I would've been down with it, I've always liked settings where humans are just kinda "there" and interspersed without making a big deal out of it.
Agreed. If it was just a "Humans exist and are just one of many races" thing I would find that kind of cool, if it was some kind of "only human character in the cast" thing that would just be weird.

They somewhat almost did that former one with Starlink.

>>11785710
I still really like star fox 2

>>11774794 (OP)
Because Nintendo almost joined the Gen 3.5 party until Sony fucked off and Nintendo basically lost interest

>>11787395
Imamura-san was an ex-Konami employee so...

>>11785710
OST is better tho

>>11785550
>released years since the puppets were made
No dip, they would have reused the same ones to promote the new game.

>>11788495
My personal schizo theory is that they designed a human, and then they design an animal character that fits around their facial structure/hair/personality type. The opposite is something that cartoonists have done before..
It's a huge huge stretch and I 99% likely wrong but her various versions(especially when she does look black hair-wise) remind me of the scrapped sheep or gazelle pilot to me, and Fox always looked vaguely human to me in SF2, especially when you select him. I swear he's meant to look like some blonde army guy, like Guile from Street Fighter but with a buzzcut.

>>11776051
It's sad the same guys behind Judgral FE, Mystery SNES, Paper Mario, and Super Metroid, who were at their absolute peak between the SNES and N64 produces garbage and s**p now.

>>11789751
I mean aesthetically. The others look like obvious furry art, and not cool. The Itoh comic in Nintendo Power on the other hand looked cool.
Retro tried to pitch a Star Fox game once and wanted the game to look like the puppets, I don't know if that would've been executed well

>>11789778
Didn't the face sprites for when they talked to you in Zero use puppets?

>>11789753
maybe

>>11789746
Gen 4.5, and Nintendo took until Switch to become relevant again, but thats only because Sony moved their PlayStation branch to California and started to only make interactive movies with very little game play (think the modern day Sewer Sark and Night Trap) and Microsoft becoming nothing but FPSs and MMOs (on top of allowing their games on other platforms like what happened to Sega years prier), leaving Nintendo the only one still making actual games that are exclusives.
>>11789765
Sucker Punch is a western studio, also a Sony first party studio as well.
Intelligent Systems still makes excellent games.

>>11789778
Speaking of the comic, >>11787636 bottom right is straight from it.
Really weird to think about that a Nintendo Power only comic might have been used for canon in the actual games

maybe there's some meta narrative for every sf game being a reboot because andross is messing with the timeline

>>11789786
I'm not sure, doesn't look like it to me. The way the characters talk in their portrait sprites were always meant to mimic puppets talking, but Retro's ideas was to make them look just like the original puppets aesthetically
I imagine some thunderbirds esque cutscenes

>>11789857
Starfox Megami Tensei

>>11779732
N64 should've gotten the EX series

>>11775472
Capcom was probably trying to cater to an established userbase of SNES Street Fighter fans.

>female fox appears in sf2 data
>was actually Fara taken straight from the Nintendo Power comics
Ghost Dad coming to save Fox in his hour of need(or just a vision Fox is having) also happened in the comic before 64
I just think that's weird

>>11795038
why is it weird?

>>11795057
I dunno, I just grew up being told that the guys making the games would never ever give a shit about media made specifically for a foreign market.
Which is mostly true, until you get instances where it isn't

>>11795038
it's less weird when you know the Benimaru Itoh has been involved with nintendo for years and basically helped establish the early continuities for Metroid and Star Fox.
He's done comics for just about ever major Nintendo franchise but Zelda, and has worked on multiple games. IIRC he was even Earthbound 64's art director.

>>11795068

>>11795069

>>11795072

>>11795067
>>11795068
>>11795069
>>11795072
>>11795076
Itoh is so kino
He also did some early Pokemon art for a guide

>>11795084
yeah. I think his primary place within Nintendo is working for Creatures, so he was involved in a lot of the early pokemon stuff like Snap and Stadium.

>>11795072
bat, spark magic, kick and BIG FUCKING GUN

i havent played assault and i never even seen command but am i accurate in assuming 2 has the best music in the series?

>>11796018
Command makes me feel bad because it has stuff I wanted in a Star Fox game but it's so fucking cringe and embarrassing

>>11795090
How the hell is that little cart not being crushed into a pancake from his weight?

>>11774794 (OP)
I'd like everyone ITT to answer the following question:
"Without any hindsight to rely on, was it really a mistake to cancel Starfox 2?"

>>11798030
probably not. Even if it was mostly finished, the SNES was on its way out and Nintendo developing the N64 would have already known that it was far more capable of doing whatever tech stuff the SNES and Super FX2 could do.
I guess they also save money on printing the game, advertising the game and so on.

>>11798030
Considering how finished the game was, yes. Pretty silly to cancel a finished game just because the next console will be out soon, the previous gen console generally stays being viable for another 2-3 years before it's time to put it to pasture. Super Mario RPG came out about three months before the N64, imagine if they decided to cancel that because the N64 was about to come out.

They could have at the very least made an N64 enhanced port then instead of just shelve it and start over.

>>11775437
Cry to a janny then, bitch.

>>11799018
>>11798030
the real loss of SF2 is all the new mechanics it introduced that SF64 didn't include.

>>11798030
As the others say, it was a finished game that didn't deserve to be canned, but it would've taken the thunder out of the N64's sails. Personally, seeing as games like Mega Man & Bass were released well into the PS1 cycle solely to try to give something to those that couldn't upgrade to the next system, I think throwing the lingering SNES users a bone would've been to Nintendo's benefit overall by making sure there's still people on both systems - that and not burning their bridges with Argonaut over it, alongside the whole 3D platformer debacle with Croc.

>>11774809
>In hindsight, Nintendo probably made the right call

There were three or four SuperFX games that were all cancelled in 1995.

Comanche was a port of the DOS game that used the SuperFX2 chip. It was going to use the chip to render voxel landscapes and scale sprites.
https://youtu.be/ZDax9NoyWbA

There was also FX Fighter; the Virtua Fighter clone for the SNES that used the SuperFX chip2:
https://youtu.be/9ndAet10uDY

FX Fighter did get released on PC.

I have to wonder if Doom and Yoshi's Island used the SFX2 chips that were reserved for Star Fox 2 and Comanche?

>>11799828

https://youtu.be/kW8YNk7-zfs

>>11799828
>There was also FX Fighter; the Virtua Fighter clone for the SNES
Be amazing games has Nintendo retooled it into Street Fighter EX or first Tekken games

>>11798030
It had plenty of time to shine if it didnt get canned, as the N64 got delayed and delayed in Japan and released later in the US and later than that in the rest of the world
Its cancelation is probably another factor on why the series has been so rudderless, or has been way too constricted

>>11798030
Depends when it came out, and how close it would've been to Star Fox 64. I think it would've received critical acclaim, and sold well. But I also think by comparison, it'd make SF64 look worse/dumbed down.

Is it too much to ask that they did a Star Fox 2 64?

>>11802016
That's a good point. Thinking about it now, I'm amazed they never did a Star Fox 2 remaster for the 3DS or the Wii U.

>>11802292
Personally, I thought a remake of SF1 with SF643D's engine should have been on the table.
Like an ACTUAL remake.

>>11795068
Reminder Dobshit once claimed this comic was by a western artist lol

>>11798030
no
>>11799363
Nintendo was really pushing for the SNES to be on its way out by 96. I think SMRPG was produced as a "last hurrah" in North America; besides, I think Square had already shouldered most if not all of the development costs.

I want to know what the sales stats for SFA2 on the SNES were. It seemed so strange when that came out, a big non budget title on a system everyone thought was on its way out anyway.

>>11803221
He called her "American Samus"
As usual both sides of that internet argument were only half correct because it's both by a Japanese artist who influenced the Japanese lore but also originally only intended for an American audience. I know the Metroid comic got a Japanese release later, not sure about the Star Fox one.
Still weird he treats Nintendo stuff like 90's Sonic fans arguing over US/UK/Japanese lore.

>>11802292
I don't know what to do with this series but making a direct sequel to 64 would probably sell decently. There's still a lot of stuff in 2 that they never did again I guess maybe in Command they did, but it's all about execution

>>11789806
He needs a spinoff desu
Make it Pilotwings x F-Zero x Top Gun or something.

>>11803280
>Still weird he treats Nintendo stuff like 90's Sonic fans arguing over US/UK/Japanese lore.
because he was a maladjusted autist, anon.

the gigaleak gave us quite a few builds of 2. one of which shows that by september 13-20th 1995 they were planning to release it in 2 years in japan....?
https://tcrf.net/images/e/e3/SF-1997_%28256x224%29.png