Dreamcast was truly ahead of its time

>Sega of Japan's Katana for Dreamcast
>Hitachi SH4 chips
>PVR on Dreamcast was much better than PSX GPU
>Rarely-used volumetric per-pixel shadows and volumetric fog features
>Order Independent Transparency and is the only system to date that came with OIT at the hardware level
>16MB of RAM (8x the PS1/Saturn)

>obsolete 3 years later
>>truly ahead of its time

>>11789839
no they went bankrupt 3 years later. different thing.

>>11789830 (OP)
It's really a shame that DC is the objective worst way to play PSO, because I really liked firing up Flycast and playing with the bros on it even though we very quickly wound up back on Ephinea.

>>11789846
I'm sorry dude, I wanted Sega to win, but there was no way the Dreamcast was going toe to toe with the PS2, GCN, and Xbox at the same time.

>better than the PSX GPU
>8x the PS1
>comparing a system made in 1998 against a system made in 1994
In other breaking news for OP, the SNES was truly ahead of it's time compared to the NES.

>>11789830 (OP)
Imagine how sick it would have been if Dreamcast got a MK Trilogy port instead of cringe ass MK Gold.

>>11789986
Would the Xbox even be a thing if the Dreamcast didn't die?

>>11790075
Halo was originally planned for Dreamcast.

>>11790118
>it's perfect fit for DC
I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder

>>11790075
>>11790118
The xbox is actually the Dreamcast 2. I know it's hard to believe but if you do some research you'll see it's true.

>>11790167
This

>>11789894
That's not a bad thing for the Dreamcast, it just means the Gamecube and Xbox were that much of a leap in capabilities when those got ports of PSO.

>>11790167
xbawks with dreamcast aesthetics would've been sweet

>>11790118
>1 analog stick
>weaker console
would be so bad

>>11789986
>>11790075
>>11790238
>>11790167
>>11790178
>>11790273
Microsoft offered to buy Sega several times. They really liked Sega's IP and game library. But Sega Japan refused each time. Then Microsoft offered to partner with Sega to make a console. Sega Japan refused. The closest Microsoft got was being allowed to make a Software Development Kit for Dreamcast to make it easier for developers to make games on Dreamcast.

Today I bet Sega really regrets not selling to Microsoft. Sega could have had money and resources equal to Sony. Imagine Xbox and Xbox 360 but with Sega Games made exclusively for the console.

>>11790167
>>11790520
So you're telling me that if Sega had one more legit chance they would still fail miserably?! (and they still somewhat did because the Xbox, "Dreamcast 2", still failed).
At least Sega chose to honor their failure and didn't agree to play with someone else's money.

>>11790542
>xbox failed
Absolutely delusional

>>11790490
You would never play this game with the controller if it was on DC, but also iirc it was made as a PC title not the DC before getting pushed to the xbox

>>11790675
>sold less than the Atari2600
>ignored in Japan
>each unit sold at $200 loss

>>11790741
>>11790542
Nope. You might as well triple Xbox sales numbers because the real winner was Microsoft and their Xbox live money. Imagine every Xbox paying $10 dollars a month for an Xbox live account and multi-player.

That's $120 a year. Original Xbox had Xbox live support from 2002 to 2010. That's 8 years.

$120 x 8 = $960 dollars

That's at least 3 to 6 Xboxes worth of price over 8 years. Microsoft made serious cash in the long term.

Meanwhile PS2 was largely done by 2006. Almost no one played PS2 multi-player.

I have my DC inside my closet chilling with my PS4 Slim. Nowdays I only emulate.

>>11789830 (OP)
>Look at how much better these specs are than the PS1/Saturn!
It came out about half a decade after those so it better have better specs, too bad that the PS2, GameCube, and Xbox were right around the corner whose specs blew it away. They really should have waited until it would have been viable to include a DVD drive in it, it's like they learned nothing from the Saturn's early launch.

>>11790520
A Japanese company selling out to an American one is the ultimate shame in their land. Has it ever happened before? Not to my knowledge. Anyway Sega was originally a US company now that I think of it.

>>11791015
>half a decade
>2 years

delusional

>>11791015
They got lucky with Genesis launching before SNES and finding mild success so they kept repeating that strategy over and over.

>>11791021
it came out 4 years later so you're both wrong anyway.

>>11791038
But Xbox was released 3 years after Dreamcast

>>11791021
Learn to read

what happened to xbox over the past 20 years under microsoft is what should have happened to windows by the end of the 1990s

>>11790167
>The xbox is actually the Dreamcast 2.
I guess that's fitting considering how badly the Xbox brand has failed after it's second console after initially only even doing good in one region.

>>11790520
>Today I bet Sega really regrets not selling to Microsoft.
So Sonic could have been exclusive to Xbox and become completely forgotten and washed up? Yeah, no, I think SEGA made the right call to not be sold to MS. Microsoft has all but given up in the console market to the point where even developers are asking that's the point of making Xbox games anymore. For fuck's sake they are porting their first party IPs to their primary competitor now. Imagine if Nintendo ported Mario Kart to the PS4 during the WiiU era. All MS has going for them in gaming is the PC gaming market now, and Steam Deck is threatening that too now. No, not because I think the Steam Deck will replace people's custom gaming rigs, but because it's making developers not ignore Linux as much as they used to. The stupid bullshit they are pulling with Windows 11 isn't helping their case wither.

>>11790794
>You might as well triple Xbox sales numbers because the real winner was Microsoft and their Xbox live money. Imagine every Xbox paying $10 dollars a month for an Xbox live account and multi-player.
Hello Stretch Armstrong

>>11791021
>Intentionally omitting the "about" in "about half a decade"
>PS1 and Saturn came out in 1994
>Dreamcast came out in 1998
>Thinks 8-4 = 2
Look, I know I don't expect much from the intelligence of most anons here, but this is literally math I did in Kindergarten that was still easy even back then.

>>11790794
buddy, stop being delusional
Microsoft spent a monumental amount of money to create the Xbox from scratch, provide all the marketing, infrastructure, lifetime resources and support. The only thing that kept this console afloat was not its own merit, but on the strength of other microsoft products.

>>11791078
Microsoft was making money on Xbox. But the real money maker was Xbox live services. They are the reason we have online console multi-player today. You should thank Microsoft.

>>11791052
If Sega was purchased by MS. I think Sega Japan would balance out Microsoft's autism about trying to turn Xbox into a media center "do everything" machine.

Original Xbox and Xbox 360 were great. It's everything after that went off the rails with Xbox One. Sega probably would have changed things. Also don't try to act like PS3 was great either. Cel processor bloated nonsense.

>>11791105
if Sega was purchased by MS, Sega would have no say in the strategy of its parent company. subsidiaries are second-class citizens that are lucky to exist at all with any level of autonomy

>>11791043
Windows has been more mismanaged than Xbox. the reason it holds 90% market share is because Windows is subsidised by the federal government. the fact OSX has any market share at all is a miracle, let alone as big of one as it does considering it has practically zero game support these days

>>11791105
>I think Sega Japan would balance out Microsoft's autism about trying to turn Xbox into a media center "do everything" machine.
.... riiiiiight

>>11791150
Where the fuck did the karaoke add-on even connect

>>11789894
DC version has better textures and lighting, the ports screwed the graphics up

>>11790520
A Sega-Microsoft console would have been a real threat

>>11791225
Just to the R+L audio on the megacd. It doesn't do any video or anything, it just overlays the mic on top of the audio coming from the megacd. Basically just a cheap mic mixer designed to fit in aesthetically with the rest of the sega tower of druaga.

>>11790741
This isn’t accurate because most people who had a Dreamcast eventually relented and got another sixth gen console. I doubt many people rode it out from the Dreamcast to the PS3.

>>11791140
i understand that, well but so what i'm saying is that sega and now xbox FAILING shows market mechanics can work to knock out objectively inferior products. OSX gets market share because it's a better product, people like using it more. but like you say windows is propped up. it should have been allowed to fail because of how bad it is, but it's not.

>>11789830 (OP)
it's nice to think about a dreamcast as your primary home internet device. checking my email and doing some online shopping on my dreamcast, then playing a few hours of pso

>>11789830 (OP)
Phantasy Star Online in early 2001 was truly an experience of a lifetime that can be replicated in anyway today.

>>11791253
Not ps3 but I played an phantasy star on the psp is there one for the 3?

>>11791243
>sega tower of druaga

Based. And thats not even it's final form

>>11789830 (OP)
>Dreamcast was truly ahead of its time
it was.
>>Hitachi SH4 chips
great chips hampered by mediocre 3d video hardware.
>>Rarely-used volumetric per-pixel shadows and volumetric fog features
because it was slow.

>>11790520
>Today I bet Sega really regrets not selling to Microsoft.
they merged with sammy to become a massive profitable corporation with their fingers in many pies, especially gambling. why the fuck would they need microsoft? microsoft would have stripped sega of its IP and any assets and set fire to the rest.

>>11791492
>they merged with sammy

It wasn't a merger. Sega was bought out by a glorified Japanese slot machine company. And it was only because Sega was on the verge of bankruptcy. The worst part is that Namco offered to buy Sega, but Sega refused for some strange reason (maybe bitterness?). Namco-Sega was almost a thing.

>to become a massive profitable corporation with their fingers in many pies, especially gambling.

Sammy is doing well. Sega is not. Sega Profits are down over 20%. Sammy didn't bail them out for some reason and told Sega to figure it out. Sega had to sell off its arcade division due to financial troubles.

>>11791262
>OSX gets market share because it's a better product
That's sure as hell not why it has any market share

>>11790167
Well yeah, that's basically what I was trying to say when I asked that question.

>>11790520
>>11790542
I mean let’s be real, Xbox was only successful because of the void Nintendo and Sega left, and it managed to survive to that point only due to Microsoft’s money. The partnership would’ve not changed anything at all. Buying Sega is a different thing though. I bet Sega would be alive till today making Dreamcast 4, but it’s situation would be no different than Xbox today, utterly owned by PS5 and becoming a third party anyway.

>>11791492
You’re acting is if the Sammy merger helped them, they’re a shadow of their former selves, even Square Enix in its worst state is making more games. Strip Atlus and Yakuza out of the equation and you will find out how pathetic current Sega is.

>>11791962
PS2 was an unstoppable juggernaut at the time.

But Xbox wasn't too shabby either. Selling 25 million consoles is extremely good for a brand new never before seen console from a company no one thought could make games. Plus the profits from Xbox live.

>>11789830 (OP)
Everything about the Dreamcast was Sega learning from its fuckups with the Saturn (specifically how difficult it was to develop for):

> A single, powerful CPU with streamlined architecture instead of a complicated multi-chip setup
> Said CPU was used in Sega's NAOMI arcade machines, making arcade ports simple
> Support for Sega's own fast/streamlined/documented SDK or Windows CE (to make porting games from the PC easier)
> A shitload (for the time) of RAM
> A built in modem (instead of being an expensive addon)
> Four controller ports (instead of requiring another addon for 4 player games)
> Built in hardware AA

and some other cool shit

> Native VGA out support
> independent filesharing between memory cards without the console needing to be present
> a large (again, for the time) optical disc format that stored up to 1GB of data
> Their own gaming-specific dialup ISP (designed to reduce latency as much as possible)
> Plans for pic related

The only place they really fucked up on was the controller. They only did one stick, which seems like they wanted to push for arcade style games, but then they did a 2x2 console style button layout instead of a 3x2 arcade style layout. It didn't really make any sense then and still doesn't now.

Another canceled addon

>>11790167
>The xbox is actually the Dreamcast 2

No shit, the Xbox got games from a laundry list of Sega franchises that had already been on the Dreamcast or earlier Sega consoles:

> Sanic
> Shenmue
> Sega GT
> Phantasy Star Online
> Jet Grind Radio
> House of the Dead
> Crazy Taxi
> Outrun
> Panzer Dragoon
> Toejam and Earl
> The 2K sports games

The only major franchise they missed that ended up exclusively on the PS2 was Virtua Fighter.

This plus the fact that Microsoft basically ripped off the DC's controller to make the Xbox Duke pad and the fact that the Xbox also had built in network hardware and a focus on online play and DLC makes it the closest thing we ever got to a Dreamcast 2.

>>11791978
The original xbox was a great deal for consumers, but it was never a money maker for Microsoft. The console didn't get ever get cheaper to produce and cost $100 more to produce than it sold for even in 2005. Xbox Live was also used by less than 10% of original xbox owners so even the free money didn't help the console turn a profit. Microsoft was okay with this though, they knew the xbox was just them paying for marketshare and they more than made back their money with the 360.

>>11791993
You can somewhat blame Nvidia. They were price gouging Microsoft for Xbox Nvidia GPUs. Nvidia was charging a super high price. Then they suddenly decided it wasn't enough and wanted more money. They refused to supply more GPUs unless Microsoft paid even more money. Microsoft took them to court.

Lol at software devs trying to make hardware

There are companies that literally do nothing but make hardware for our games to run on. They are good at it and are sustained by their products. Mfers like Sony who try to do both just fuck their own shit up and diminish their own offerings by trying to do it all instead of focusing. Like fuck off. Imagine not sinking billions into R&D and not actually losing money on selling machines when you could just be standing on mfgr's output and making bank by selling games

Fools.

>>11792002
>Mfers like Sony who try to do both just fuck their own shit up and diminish their own offerings by trying to do it all instead of focusing.
...PS2 and Wii are proof that your take is one of the dumbest.

>>11792002
Nintendo has proven that doing it all yourself is the most profitable strategy.

>>11792025
Until now, since the Switch 2 is their biggest mistake.

>>11791016
Don't look up who created SEGA or its early years

Dreamcast was copium for broke ass niggas with no PC.

>>11792168
>the Switch 2 is their biggest mistake
Virtual Boy?
WiiU?

>>11789830 (OP)

>>11791981
>Everything about the Dreamcast was Sega learning from its fuckups with the Saturn

Saturn = sturdy hardware
Dreamcast = fragile hardware

>>11791558
>(maybe bitterness?)
most likely money
>Sega had to sell off its arcade division due to financial troubles.
this "arcade division" were arcade parlours that sega owned, not the development/r&d side.
>Sammy is doing well. Sega is not. Sega Profits are down over 20%.
it's the same business.

>>11792754
>it's the same business.
No anon. They both operate independently from eachother.

>this "arcade division" were arcade parlours that sega owned, not the development/r&d side.
And this makes a difference why? It still signals huge financial troubles for Sega.

>>11792761
>They both operate independently from eachother.
makes no difference, you retarded dumb cunt. it's the same business.

>And this makes a difference why?
you know the difference and why, faggot. who do you think you're fooling on this board? if you're going to talk about shit you know nothing about at least try and spend 5 minutes reading about the subject instead of making shit up. faggot.

>>11792808
>makes no difference, you retarded dumb cunt. it's the same business.
Of course it makes a difference. You know nothing about business. They operate independently and operate under an umbrella corporation. They don't share their budgets or resources. They are basically each run as independent businesses. If one fails, it doesn't affect other parts of the conglomerate.

>you know the difference and why, faggot.
Lmao. Continue getting mad. The original argument is Sega is doing poorly financially in recent years. This is confirmed in their public financial reports. Go be a Sega fanboy elsewhere. This is a discussion for actual adults.

>>11790741
All this picture shows is that the Xbox did extremely well given the circumstances, they did not lose, and the blowout success of the 360 proves that.
It released late into a console generation dominated by Sony, managed to carve out a loyal player base despite being the new kid on the block. There's no way you can interpret the Xbox as a failure, the Dreamcast was a failure, the gamecube was argueably a failure, the PS2 was legendary and is what every single company hopes to be but rarely does that happen and Sony couldn't make that kind of success again no matter how hard they try.

>>11793239
>did extremely well given the circumstances
Retards like you refuse to understand that without Microsoft's infinite money, the Xbox alone wouldn't last 3 years (similar to the Dreamcast)
Xbox is unsustainable with those numbers. Profit was clearly never the intention, but only to subvert the segment. Microsoft knew this very well.

>>11791998
>The original xbox was a great deal for consumers, but it was never a money maker for Microsoft.

That was the entire appeal of it. You knew that the richest company on the planet has no problem burning money to get you the most powerful console, that also had a HDD and built-in LAN to do things nothing else could at the time.

And the "losing money" part was just their entry fee to the market, it came back several times over when the 360 and Wii was destroying the PS3. It's only a shame they put whatshisname at the helm later and he fucked up everything with his Kinect obsession.

SA1 and SA2 were best on Dreamcast.

The main lighting issues SA2B has are the inability to draw the DC version’s shadows and specular lighting, which affects a lot of stuff (GUN robots, Shadow’s shoes, possible Sonic’s jaw even).

>>11793407
>it came back several times over when the 360 and Wii was destroying the PS3
The Wii destroyed both, the PS3 and 360 roughly less the same amount. Though I guess one could argue that is more impressive for the 360 considering that it had a miniscule Japanese presence compared to the PS3 yet still basically matched it's worldwide sales.

>>11793418
>The Wii destroyed both, the PS3 and 360 roughly less the same amount.

Yeah if you quote wikipedia numbers. If you were actually alive at the era, Wii was Gamecube 2.0 sold for super cheap, and it was impressive at start but burned itself up after 3-4 years. It's biggest allure was going super cheap on hardware and focusing on games. And the normies at up the wiimote gimmick.
360 was the high end machine, and had a year market lead, and far easier development.
PS3 was a complete fucking joke for the first 2-3 years of its life, worse graphics than 360 in EVERY game, broke down just as much, cost $600 (close to like $1200 today). Imagine if the PS5 or 6 came out, had worse graphics than the Switch 2, did not get any good titles until 2030, and cost $1200.

PS3 having NOGAEMS was memed on /v/ until the end of the decade.
Being able to buy a 360 AND a Wii for the cost of the PS3 was memed internet wide everywhere.
PS3 didn't sell shit until the Slim and Ultra Slim models came out, by which time the Wii was slowly getting over and Microsoft was busy shooting themselves in the foot with the Kinect.

>>11793449
Just look at this shit, this was how Sony was trying to sell you the PS3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRqKffIjCDU

OF COURSE the Wii destroyed it. The 360 destroyed it too, until the Kinect and the affordable Ultra Slim PS3, and the PS3 getting actual good games.

>>11793449
>Yeah if you quote wikipedia numbers
You mean everyone's numbers, it wasn't even close no matter what source you use.
>If you were actually alive at the era
Bitch, don't make me shove my NES carts up your ass
>Wii was Gamecube 2.0 sold for super cheap
Yes, I remember the $250 pricepoint, which was only because retailers complained that $200 was too cheap to be profitable for them so they bundled Wii Sports with it. I remember waiting in line overnight for it while playing on my DS. I remember when it was called Revolution. I remember the whole "It's two gamecubes duct-taped together" meme being said over and over.
>but burned itself up after 3-4 years
So I guess YOU weren't alive back then. It was burning out because Nintendo was catering heavily to the casual market that liked Wii Sports-tier games that they tried to appeal to with laughable shit like Wii Music. Issue is, said market had shit attach rates, and smartphones were starting to take that market away, so they started to pivot back to actual Nintendo fans. Remember how hard Nintendo won E3 of 2010?
>And the normies at up the wiimote gimmick.
Err, no, everyone hated "waggle controls" pretty much right after the console actually was released.

>360 was the high end machine, and had a year market lead, and far easier development.
The PS3 was generally considered the high-end one out of the three, also the 360's early launch gimped it hard with it's DVD drive and lack of HDMI port.
>PS3 was a complete fucking joke for the first 2-3 years of its life, worse graphics than 360 in EVERY game
pretty much
>broke down just as much
Err no, are you fucking serious? The PS3 had it's problems but it was not the one infamous for failures to the point where class actions were involved.
>cost $600 (close to like $1200 today)
That's not how inflation works
>"PS3 price was MEMED!"
Yes, yes it was. Sony rapidly started lowering the price. And this effects the fact that both were close to total worldwide sales how?

>>11793453
>The 360 destroyed it too
Actual hard data disagrees with you, they sold similar numbers. All your whining and crying and autistic screeching and even flat out lies in that mess of a post of yours won't change this fact.

I preferred the 360 to the PS3 mind you, but the drivel you are spouting is just plain bullshit.

The wii, 360 and PS3 are not retro and I demand that you stop talking about them immediately

>>11793526
Ok, so anyway I was trying to look up how to re-create that VGA mod for my Virtual Boy because it's not sold anymore...

>>11793449
>a year market lead
This was done out of pure desperation. A rushed launch.
The consumer was screwed over by an unreliable console (3RL) with outdated specs: no HDMI, no Wi-Fi (they dared sell the adapter ''for only'' $99 later on), no Blu-ray, pay to play online service, no native backwards compatibility and a controller that uses double aa batteries; and the system that in fact had no game on release.
The majority of people (idiots) who bought the first Xbox 360 models (Xenon, Elpis, Zephyr) at some point had to buy another one console.
Considering how complete the FAT PS3 (CECHA, CECHB,CECHE) are, $499 is a bargain price compared to the 399$ Xbox360 package. Only a retard would think that the $100 difference is not 100% worth it. *Imagine paying $399 for a console without hdmi output...* people were that retarded back then!

>PS3 was a complete fucking joke
Xbox360 was the complete joke (already exposed above)
Playstation was the video game console known for its amazing games... the place to play the latest groundbreaking release. PS3 harm this core premise because many first-party, exclusives and other system seller games took too long to release. Metal gear solid 4, god of war 3, gran turismo 5, final fantasy xiii, killzone 2, RE5, GTA IV, Tekken 6, Ace combat... all 2-3 years after the console release. This is what hurt the sentiment, hurt the sales and also generated the "no games" meme back then.

>>11793612
>a controller that uses double aa batteries
Honestly, I'm fine with this, I wish PlayStation controllers did it too. The latest Xbox controllers STILL use AA batteries, and you know what? It was a great idea!

I have PS3 controllers now that are useless unless plugged in because their batteries are all shot, and finding a replacement that isn't Chinesium that will either fail or explode in 6 months is impossible because Sony never designed them to be user replicable nor sold replacement parts.

Meanwhile on my 360, as well as any Xbox that came after, I can use standard AA batteries, rechargeable AA batteries, or get a specifically-made battery pack for it if I wanted. I never have to worry about the controller becoming useless because the battery no longer holds a charge. IMO that's one thing MS got completely right with the controller and I wish Sony had done the same. Enough with devices that have sealed proprietary rechargeable batteries that you cannot replace.

>>11793612

>no HDMI,
HDMI wasn't even the standard yet in 2005.

>no Wi-Fi (they dared sell the adapter ''for only'' $99 later on),
Again, not critical. Not everyone had Wi-Fi yet. This was 2005. People were still connecting their computers directly to cable modems.

>no Blu-ray
1. Bluray wasn't the standard yet.

2. Why would Microsoft put Sony's disc in their console? That's just helping Sony since they charge a fee everytime you sell a Bluray device.

>pay to play online service
This was necessary because it paid for the Xbox live servers and kept the quality of online service high.

>no native backwards compatibility
PS3 didn't have it either.

>and a controller that uses double aa batteries
They sold wired controllers too. Not sure why this bothers you.

>>11793416
SA2B has multiplayer and better Chao Garden

>>11793645
Well, in the picture, the console is advertised as the next generation of high definition console. The lack of all these features completely contradicts this idea.
Literally a scam.

PS3 had the ps2 cpu and gpu on the mainboard.

>>11793645
>HDMI wasn't even the standard yet in 2005.
It was standardized in 2002 and introduced in 2003. You know what also wasn't standard yet in 2005? HDTVs, the vast majority of users did not have one, yet one of the biggest complaints at the time was how the text was fucking impossible to read in the 360-exclusive Dead Rising on non-HDTVs. Consoles are generally expected to last several years, and this was a console that was planning to be cutting edge and be ready for the future, just like the Xbox was at the time by requiring broadband, the omission of HDMI then was a huge mis-step if it was indeed because it "was not standard yet". As was using DVD, and not just DVDs, but the new copy protection format the Xbox360 used meant they they actually had a little over a gigabyte LESS of space available than original Xbox disks! Not only was this cutting-edge HD console lacking the latest HD port and latest HD disk format... but said disks held less data than their last-gen system!

Releasing it in 2005 was a very stupid move.

>Again, not critical. Not everyone had Wi-Fi yet.
You're a fucking idiot, WiFi was VERY common by 2005. The Wii launched the year after, are you saying most people who played their Wii online got broadband adapters? Most people don't have ethernet cabling running all around their house, and usually the router is not near their main TV.

>Bluray wasn't the standard yet
I'm noticing a pattern with your bullshit, plus I already explained why sticking with DVD was a giant misstep.

>Why would Microsoft put Sony's disc in their console?
Tell me, do you think the PCs Sony was manufacturing at the time ran Linux? Did you know that Sony was part of the group you had to pay royalties to to be able to play music CDs or DVD movies too? Do you think corporations having to pay licenses to each other even if they make competing products is not common?

>>11793680
>>11793645
>This was necessary because it paid for the Xbox live servers
Is that why free online PC gaming is miles ahead of consoles?

>no native backwards compatibility
PS3 didn't have it either.
It did for PS2 at launch

You are clearly too young to be on these forums if you didn't know any of this, anyone who was alive at the time would have known all this.

Why did Sonic vs Shadow have green tint

>>11793681
>Is that why free online PC gaming is miles ahead of consoles?
Oh please. PC online servers close down all the freaking time. Who are you trying to fool?

>>11789986
the consoles that lost are the most powerfull of all with the winning one being the least powerfull of all, this was proven later by nintendo.
>>11790000
the guy doesn't want to compare it to ps2 because he is a sony fanboy.
>better cpu with higher speed then ps2
>double the main ram for cpu
>double the ram for audio and video
>better gpu in specs compared to ps2

>>11793724
What were the most technically impressive Dreamcast games on a hardware level

>>11791052
That’s because you’re too shortsighted to see what Microsoft is doing. By turning every television, phone, tablet, console, computer, whatever, into a Xbox playing capable device, they are increasing there foot print globally and dominating a market that Nintendo and PlayStation won’t be able to catch up to nor will publishers be able to ignore. Game Pass/Game Anywhere is indeed Microsoft copying the Netflix model and it’s going amazingly well for them honestly. The internet is there, the service works, and it gives them more resources to develop it out.

It’s quite brilliant of them to pivot this way. Netflix makes big movies, while also carrying other studios films. Microsoft now makes big games, while also carrying other publishers games. And you can watch Netflix anywhere on almost anything.. just like Microsoft’s game anywhere.

>>11792584
What's fragile in Dreamcast hardware, specifically?

>>11793369
I fully understand that Microsoft's infinite money is why the xbox wasn't a failure. But you see that lil bit there at the end, it wasn't a failure.

>>11793705
As if console servers don't

>>11793746
Nintendo could not give less of a shit about markets outside of video games, they have no interest in turning their console into a "media center". Also it's hilarious you think Sony can't "catch up" when it's MS that's eating shit at the moment. You think most media streaming on consoles is happening on MS hardware and not Sony's?

>>11794702
>As if console servers don't
Not with Xbox live ya dummy. That's the whole point. Paying for a service brings consistency.

>>11794938
>Paying for a service brings consistency.

>>11794969
How's that free PS2 and Gamecube online service? Oh wait...

>>11795071
Doing about as well as my original Xbox's service

Dreamcast fog...
Soul

>>11795089
PS2 online was dogshit, OG Xbox had a superior online service. I used to play SOCOM with a lot of lag

>>11794447
NTA but I've had bad experiences with the disc drives in them. I've got 3 Dreamcasts and only one of them has a working GD-ROM drive at the moment.

>>11795089
>Doing about as well as my original Xbox's service
Now we know you are full of BS.

PS2 online was absolute garbage compared to Xbox live.

Why is Dreamcast so popular for homebrew?

>>11795162
Old enough to be cheap enough to buy.

New enough to still be able to run basic 3D games and have a disc drive.

>>11795162
>Why is Dreamcast so popular for homebrew?
never happened. it's been 27 years and there's still no proper development tools for the audio chip. 27 fucking years. you'd think someone from this "popular" homebrew community would have made at least a tracker but no. nothing. absolutely nothing.

>>11789830 (OP)
It's basically the ultimate 90's console in a way. The highest tech console from that era with lots of arcade ports and arcade style games that really faded in popularity after the 5th gen.

>>11790741
Genesis and SNES were almost tied for sales in the US. Nintendo just barely squeaked ahead.

To fix SA1 and SA2's PC ports, modders had to rewrite the rendering system

You can't really port them, since Dreamcast was a totally different platform. So you have to emulate it with modern techniques

You can't just pop Dreamcast assets into PC, you have to emulate Dreamcast hardware to an extent.

This was the same problem SEGA had when porting them from Dreamcast -> GameCube -> Windows (DirectX 8.1)

>>11795510
What's there to make for it? The only thing remotely special about its audio setup is the DSP, other than that it's just a bunch of PCM channels for you to throw shit at, same as every console that's been made since.

>>11790683
no it was a mac game

>When we were developing the Saturn 3D Controller, that was the first time we had ever tried to design an analog-input controller. We looked at how we could best make an analog controller, and spent a lot of time working on the basic design, control methods, layouts, and all the associated design questions.

>We also looked into all kinds of additional features; stuff like integrated displays, paddle wheel controls, mouse input, motion sensing, infrared, rumble, haptics, voice recognition... many different things. Most of these features proved too costly to have natively on the Saturn 3D pad, but we made sure to design the controller to include an expansion port so those features could be added later.

>We had actually planned out a motion sensor and vibration pack, and even made a prototype. We made sure that the controller's cord ran out of the back, since anything to do with motion sensors that you would have to tilt or shake around would be harder to use with the cord coming out of the front of the controller.

>For the analog inputs, we felt it was essential to use a sensor that wouldn't experience any change in the analog signal from drift or wear. To accomplish that, we used "Hall" elements. We knew we definitely didn’t want resistive sensors. We didn’t add them for the sake of having a selling point, we just saw it as the obvious choice. It wasn’t until 2020 that we saw other companies start making controllers with those same Hall elements. I guess the market finally caught up to the Sega 3D Control Pad, and it only took 25 years.

>>11789830 (OP)
They went the Nintendo route and didn’t put out enough games

If they even put out 1.5x the amount a lot more would have bought it, it bought one later on but it’s too late because I’m not 24 anymore and they’re not half as fun for some reason

>>11795127
All optical drives shit themselves eventually. Some of this can be fixed with good maintenance and calibration, but it's not worth the hassle when ODEs are a drop in replacement for this console

>>11795771
Same difference nigger.

>>11795096
>>11795128
They're both dead, which was my point. Did you already forget the reply chain where anon tried to complain that PC servers eventually can go offline?

>>11795862
>>For the analog inputs, we felt it was essential to use a sensor that wouldn't experience any change in the analog signal from drift or wear. To accomplish that, we used "Hall" elements. We knew we definitely didn’t want resistive sensors. We didn’t add them for the sake of having a selling point, we just saw it as the obvious choice. It wasn’t until 2020 that we saw other companies start making controllers with those same Hall elements. I guess the market finally caught up to the Sega 3D Control Pad, and it only took 25 years.

Sadly, no it hasn't. The OEM controllers from Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo from my understanding in even the latest versions still use resistive analog sticks. Infuriatingly, both Sony and MS have started using hall effect sensors IN THE TRIGGERS, but not on the analog sticks themselves. Nintendo, despite the fucking lawsuits over the JoyCons, the JoyCon2 and Pro 2 controller still don't use hall effect either! For fuck's sake I have Xbox-style controllers that cost me about $20 new from 8BitDo that have hall effect sticks AND triggers, and modern official controllers are $70-90 now and are still not hall effect?

>>11796369
Xbox live isn't dead you fool.

>>11796474
It is for the original Xbox lol.

>>11790118
Source? Which magazine and #?

>>11796494
That's a good question.
It's from Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine, March 2000.

>>11796521
>Official Sega Dreamcast Magazine, March 2000
I'm going to read it! I do appreciate you, Anon. Thank you.

>>11796474
It is for the original Xbox you fool

>>11790741
>Saturn is a hilarious piece of shit
>Then they up that trash with Dreamcast, more like Nightmarender

>>11796429
We now even have a technology that's basically Hall v2.0 (magnetoresistive sensors).
Yet even the basic-bitch Hall version is still only found on third-party controllers and Chinese emulator handhelds.

>>11796546
>>11796479
So now you are trying to seperate Xbox from paid the multi-player service?

This is some desperate cope. Just admit you lost the argument and Xbox live was superior to all other free multi-player services.

>>11796579
>magnetoresistive sensors
DualShock 3 has that

>>11796590
I'm not even the original anon, it's just a fact that yes the original Xbox Live is dead, it's like saying Win95 still gets support because they update Win10. There's absolutely nothing in common with the Xbox Live brand/service that exists today and the one that ran on the original Xbox.
You can not go and play halo 2 on the Xbox online without the use of some kind of private server.

>>11797040
You are way off topic. The original argument is about which online service is better and delivers consistent performance. The Paid service of Xbox live VS the free services of other consoles/platforms.

>>11790118
>>11790167
Dead Space was originally planned for OG Xbox too.

>>11797061
Do people still argue about this? Literally everyone knows the paid service of Xbox was superior, it's gay to pay for the privilege to play online but you definitely got something for your money, the Wii's online services for instance were some of the worst I had ever used.

>>11789839
>developers have never gotten more out of console hardware over time
>games released in the first year of a system's life are as good as it gets

>Just sticking with the origins of the Dreamcast, were there really two different concepts for the Dreamcast in development? There are plenty of forum posts and articles online that state that there were competing projects - one from SEGA of America called Black Belt which was 3Dfx based, and another from SEGA of Japan called Dural which was NEC PowerVR based. Can you comment on these projects and how it was decided that the Dural concept was the one that won? If so, how different do you think the 3Dfx system would have been?

I believe SEGA of America wanted the 3Dfx version and SEGA of Japan wanted the NEC PowerVR. Both made sense for different reasons. With 3Dfx, there were more resources and documentation available for development in the US and Europe. That and it was understood that development would be easier, especially for PC ports. The NEC PowerVR made NAOMI ports simple and was easy to program, however, it was not as well supported (yet) in the US. I doubt Model 3 games would have worked too well on either. Although there was a PowerVR chip shortage when the Dreamcast launched in Japan, both chips had their pluses and minuses. In the end, I'm not sure it would have made too much of a difference.

>Katana became Dreamcast
>BlackBelt eventually became XBox

>>11797202
>3dfx
Another thing was cost. American companies could produce at a larger scale and offer better deals than Japanese companies could do. 3dfx could have offered a better deal for Sega. And the world knows Sega absolutely needed it because they were short on funds.

(( Japanese chip companies were seriously lagging behind by the 1990s. There were a lot of issues when it came to innovation and production in Japan that I won't get into here. ))

But it doesn't matter because Sega Japan didn't listen any other branches, and just went with all Japanese components again! Even though it was more expensive. Probably Sega Japan giving kickbacks to their friends in other companies again.

Meanwhile Nintendo Gamecube used ATI (Canadian) graphics chips. Xbox used Nvidia (American) graphics chips.

Sega never learns!

>>11797152
MSR is a late 2000s game developed by experienced developers named Bizarre Creations, who later in 2001 released PGR for the Xbox.
The Dreamcast was already at its limits.

>>11797202
>>11797290
Rather than being produced in Japan, what made PowerVR's GPU very expensive and difficult to manufacture was the fabrication node. The bright minds over at Sega's Katana development team wanted a next gen 250nm GPU inside a $200-$300 console. Makes sense the yield was poor. The Black Belt team wanted the much more modest 350nm 3dfx Banshee chip and last gen 603ev CPU. It would've been weaker, but Sega wouldn't bleed money over it.

>>11797480
Anon let's be real. Sega probably would have released Dreamcast 2 around 2002. It would be based on Naomi 2 arcade hardware.

>>11797517
Diff anon here. It was politics. Sega of Japan didn't want to put 3dfx chips in their arcade cabinets since of Japan was developing their Naomi arcade hardware to be cross compatible with the Dreamcast by using as much of same hardware as possible. If they did use Blackbelt, that meant 3dfx would get a ton of orders and Japan would have to import GPU chips for their cabinets. Having baka gaijin foreigner chips in arcade cabinets is very bad.

>>11797518
Anon, Naomi 2 was literally just two dreamcasts paired with a geometry processor. Xbox would run laps around it.

>>11797535
Dude what are you talking about. This is Naomi 2. Not Naomi.

Naomi 2 is slightly better than OG Xbox.

>>11797568
Naomi 2 had superior fillrate thanks to faster VRAM and 2x dreamcast GPUs, but that's about it. Xbox was a 20 gflop beast held back by 64MB slow RAM.

>>11797596
>>11797535
You don't know what you are talking about.

>64MB slow RAM.
Lmao. Poor Xbox

Naomi 2 has 1 GB of RAM.

>>11797953
>Naomi 2 has 1 GB of RAM.
Only if you go by the retarded troon Sega Retro specs, in which case it also has a 6 core 14 unit GPU and 16GB/s memory bandwidth.

>>11797290
>Meanwhile Nintendo Gamecube used ATI (Canadian) graphics chips. Xbox used Nvidia (American) graphics chips.
What about Emotion Engine? Huh???

>>11797070
Oh man, that would have been interesting as fuck.

>>11798063
Sega Retro is so funny to read. The sheer mental gymnastics and twisting of the numbers and facts they pull in order to make Sega's hardware and games seem like the bestest thing ever that did everything before everyone else is endlessly entertaining to me.

>>11798112
You were alive in the 1980s. It's common knowledge that Super Scaler technology was pioneered by Sega for their arcade games.

>>11797596
>Xbox was a 20 gflop
alright doofy

>>11798459
That's the true part, it's shit like saying the sprite scaling is proro-texture mapping and comparing the hydraulic bike control to fucking wiimotes that gets me.
The former is arguably true to a degree, but both are reaching really hard to try and unnecessarily big up something that's already a technical achievement to begin with.

>>11798112
>>11798478
I grant you bonus points. You are correct about Sega retro. But not for the reason you think. Sega Hang on does Not use hydraulics. Liquid is not involved at all. (Which would be a rather stupid design since electronics are involved.)

The arcade cabinet uses high tension springs to keep the bike centered, and electric motors for vibration and rumble feedback.

I would edit this mistake myself, but I don't have a Sega retro wiki account.

>>11798112
>sega invented motion controls
>sega invented sprite scaling
>sega invented texture mapping
>sega invented digitized sounds
Never thought I'd see fanboys more delusional than nintenfags. How is that even possible?

>>11798540
Sega also invented blast processing

>>11798540
the text only says Sega was early in utilizing techniques. 80s and early 90s Sega was forward looking I don't see how that is controversial

>>11798459
Sprite scaling is much older than superscaler. Superscaler is only notable for using hardware accelerator to do that job, but Atari and other companies had been using hardware multiplication/division chips in their arcade cabinets many years prior to Super Hang On, although to render wireframe 3D and polygonal graphics.

>>11798554
None of those are early.
>"hydraulic" controls: popularized by pole position, which is inspired by earlier mechanical arcade games, and has literally nothing to do with motion controls
>sprite scaling based on 3D coordinates: star raiders in 1979, and various lucasarts games shortly after
>digitized sounds: I don't know which game exactly did it first, but Wizard of Wor already had digitized speech eons before Super Hang On.

>>11798557
"Sprite scaling" by having separate clock rates for output and data source gives ugly results. You can tell all the arcade boards that are doing that a mile off and why despite having this "sprite scaling" technology so few developers used it. Similarly when your hardware is taking in pixel rates that means doing a 3D like scale is rather CPU intensive to calculate the correct positioning on the screen and the correct pixel rates, and that's a burden on the CPU.
Super Scalar operates more like a 3D accelerator. It does the calculations you actually want it to and the scaler chooses the pixels in a much more pleasing nearest neighbor fashion.
Atari and Midway arcade boards generally exhibit this flaw. Ugly scaling and heavy CPU usage leading to limited use. Atari throughout their entire lifespan tended to be first mover on technology, but they'd implement it in such a weird way only the dedicated would bother, and they'd lose the market to the japanese who would look for white papers on the best way and just clone that instead.

>>11798580
did it use digital drum samples

>>11797070
Dead Space was also originally supposed to be System Shock 3 before taking a turn to a far more horror focused game (also they just really wanted to make an event horizon game)

>>11798557
>Atari
And what happened to Atari?

>>11789830 (OP)
>No games

>>11795741
the yamaha acia chip is a system on a chip, powered by an arm cpu. unfortunately it's not so simple to just send audio data to a register and it will do something. the acia needs to have code executed by its arm core to receive data from the dreamcast's ram. it's like the snes apu but on steroids and with a better cpu. for music software to work it needs its own custom arm cpu code to handle all functions, which goes some way to explaining why nobody has bothered to create things for it. i have seem some homebrew stuff to program it but nothing ever eventuated out of it.

tl;dr: shit is not easy.

>>11798587
it was ugly but it worked and was successful. compared to what was around at that time for video hardware, sega did gain the upper hand for a time.