they Don't make 'em like they Used to...

>>11795082 (OP)
How in the shit do I get better at Gunbird. I've put about 2 hours in and I couldn't even 1cc Monkey difficulty with Marion (Game Over'd twice). I was grinding out normal with unlimited continues but I just can't keep up with the bullet spread and even on the lowest difficulty I find it hard to avoid that *one* stray shot that takes me down.

Should I just watch Youtube videos of others playing and try to figure it out from there or is this really just a slow crawl up the difficulties until I can clear it on Normal at the very least, or is it just not worth the effort and I should just spam continues?

>>11795106
Lowest difficulty. Anytime you run out of lives, start over. Keep going until you can clear previous sections without getting a continue. Then go up a difficulty once you've mastered the first one.

>>11795106
>wants to 1cc in 2 hours
Is this your first shmup or what? Expect 10 hours at least, 60 for 2-all

>>11795106
Tons of practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8K2R2e90-Y
Dans un rêve, je peux te contempler...

>>11795116
Thanks, resetting after dying is a big help since I'm getting used to the earlier stages now.

>>11795119
I was playing it on Normal for about an hour and a half and when I went down to Monkey I just assumed I could achieve it with one character on the easiest difficulty and was just wondering if there was something I was doing wrong and wanted some advice since I obviously couldn't. I didn't expect to immediately beat the game with no practice, but I just thought the easiest difficult wouldn't be as hard as it was.

I should also reiterate, I really just meant 1-all instead of 1-cc (since there's apparently a 2nd loop in the game?) so just a clear once without dying. I was actually able to achieve that with Marion a minute ago on Monkey so it's onto Very Easy next.

>>11795137
Noted

played battle mania daiginjou earlier this year and its one of my fav retro shmups now. highly recommended if you havent played it.

Guys, I've never played any Darius and wanna give a shoot to the series.
Are all in steam with the bundle of the collection + GDarius + Burst?

>memorization: the genre
lel

>>11795693
>salty shitter: the poster
lel

>>11795693
Every game involves memorisation.

>>11795106
>Gunbird
Possibly the most important piece of advice in this game is about pointblanking, especially if you are playing Marion. Other than that it's really just practice, and since it's a Psikyo game sometimes you just have to raw memo certain fast bullet spreads.

let's be real, lots of things are harder and more complex than pressing buttons in a semi-predetermined sequence according to muscle memory for 20-40 minutes until the stars align and everything works out in a single run

the hard part is coming to terms that being good at shmups is really nothing but that and not finding it extremely boring at the same time

if you need to dedicate most of your life to that in order to get anywhere then I feel sorry for you

>>11796182
I just don't play memorizationslop. "Easy" shmups like Gun-Nac are fun and require no memorization, but I'm sure (You) would still throw a baby shitfit and give up after a few hours of trying to beat it.

Not Bad for a Euroshmup..

dedicate your life to nmk
now THATS a developer

>>11795082 (OP)
Gradius is peak shmup kino. It was born perfect, and every sequel builts upon its predecessors. Also play Nemesis Kai on x68000.

Also if you ever need to ask, "how should I 1CC this" then you should do it. Play shmups that you find fun, and find yourself returning to even though you can't get past stage 3. Once you had your fun, you can decide if you want to 1CC or not.
I have only 1CC'd Gradius 2 and that was just a random run.

Shmups are fun without the whole 1CC goal. As long as you don't credit feed, you will experience the true nature of them.

>>11796676
i like the MSX ones

>>11796685
They are really good. It's funny how most modern shmup developers want to "innovate" for the sake of innovation, meanwhile Gradius on the MSX already achieved that.

Also Nemesis Kai is a 1:1 port of Gradius 2 on the MSX, which is why it's so good. You should play it.

>>11796437
> I just don't play memorizationslop.
Play Gradius. Don't believe the haters, play it and decide for yourself if it's a memoslop or not.

>>11796693
I played Life Force and it was intense memoslop, even with a full kit of powerups. I assume Gradius is the same.

>>11796695
Just play it. There are two layers of meta games. One is the perfect run, i.e, a decently powered up ship and the other one is the recovery run, where you rely on your own reflexes and decision making. Juggling between these layers, while dodging is pure kino.

>>11796676
>Gradius was born perfect
Never thought aboutb it before but that's actually true, it belongs to a very select category of pioneering games that did everything right on the first try, like Doom, SMB, SM64 or SFII, and its flaws (i.e. reused stages and bosses) are simply a result of technical limitations of the time. Gradius II ironed out all the kinks and got a massive boost in the production values department. Also, what I really like is that Gradius is very unpredictable so routing it completely isn't really an option, and checkpoints forbid players to credit feed. What are your opinions on Gradius Gaiden and IV ?

>>11796716
> Gradius is very unpredictable so routing it completely isn't really an option
This. One of the reason Gradius is hated in most `1CC` communities is that those fuckers can't just 1CC checklist this game just by grinding the memos.
Gradius 3 was such a love letter to the franchise, it was made for people who "love" gradius1/2, so it pushes the player even further. But it is collectively hated by 1CC tourists. I still can't get pass the 4th stage but the game is pure fun every run.

>>11796720
>I still can't get pass the 4th stage but the game is pure fun every run.
Based video game enjoyer.

I like Gradius V a lot
Is still hard as fuck even without the checkpoints

Not retro, but is Gunvein any good?

>>11796720
gradius III literally has a hard limit where you can't continue, even once
you HAVE to 1cc to beat it
how is that against "1cc tourism"?

>>11795082 (OP)
sex

>>11795119
>10 hours
Depends on the game

Man, I was looking at the prices of shmups in my country (physical media for Switch and PS), and it's insane. I have no idea why, but the cheapest ones I can find are US$100, WTF lol?
This genre is cursed.

>>11795106
I played for 10 hours (the Steam version, which I think is easier than the arcade version) and now I can reach the last level almost every time I play (first loop). There's no secret, just play several hours and try to pay attention to avoid some mistakes, such as moving too much in certain situations or basic things like that.
If you watch YouTube videos, you'll learn several techniques, some of which are quite overpowered. For example, it's possible to kill the last boss with Marion before he even fires a single shot if you follow a certain procedure.

>>11797984
Yes, it even has a great tutorial for absolute beginners. Also try Kamui

>>11796716
>did everything right on the first try
>SFII
>II

Thoughts on Raiden Trad?

>>11799737
non reason to play it over the version in MAME. i do like how the music sounds in the genesis version better though.

>>11795106
>2 hours
Don't even know what to say honestly

>>11798505
SFII was basically a total rehaul of the first game and invented nearly every standard fighting game interaction/system mechanic. It was a sequel to a bad game, but it was also the first attempt at what would become modern fighting games, and there's a reason every 2D fighter for the following 30 years adopted its skeleton
It's hard to fully describe unless you know autism specifics about the genre but they sort of nailed everything within SFII itself

>>11799756
Every fighting game is still SF2, even Tekken isn't true 3D, the side step is implemented as a hack. Only Bushido Blade on PS1 has attempted true 3D fighting.

>>11799983
>bushido blade
I remember HCG101's podcast on this. It sounded kino, might give it a go.

>>11795106
Try an easier game.

I'm new to shmups - born in the early 90s so didn't really grow up with arcades. I haven't got any clears yet, just going through games sampling the genre a little bit. I've gotten about halfway through R-Type on 1 credit, and got to the final boss of Espgaluda 2. I am curious - what are some good shmups that sit in the middle between the old memo games, and the new danmaku style? I'd like to try a game in that niche, and then I will probably pick one of those three games to try and 1cc.

>>11800491
Batsugun Special Version. It's usually considered bullet hell, but it's not quite as extreme as Cave games. Clearing the 1st loop is pretty easy.

>>11800491
Mid-late Psikyo games. They're a mix between dadshit and danmaku, while still being pretty hard to beat. Since you got that far on Galuda2, I don't think you would have too much problems with these games. The shmups I recommend are Strikers 1945 II, Gunbird 1 & 2, Sengoku Aces and Dragon Blaze. I'm pretty sure there's a shmup rompack that gets reposted on /v/ threads

>>11800693
Seconding

Please post your favorites from the following list, I'm looking for a few new games to try out.
>your favorite top tier dadshmup
>your favorite mid tier dadshmup
>your favorite low tier/badshmup

>>11800491
Gradius
>>11800769
Gradius

>>11795169
If you play on a mode that's too easy you won't get better

Maybe go one or too below normal rather than the absolute retard mode

It's been a while since I've played Gunbird but I THINK there's a character that allows you to quickkill via point blanking

The problem with easy shmups is that most of them aren't fun.

>>11795301
The collection has Darius 1, 2, alternate versions of 1 and 2, plus Gaiden

G Darius is just G Darius, I think there's a HD mode and the original mode

Burst has been ported loads of times and I can't remember if the Steam version has everything from the Arcade and PSP versions

But yeah, that collection will get you close enough to everything

What are some good bullet-hells that don't have anime/lolis in them? Nothing against that stuff, just not personally my style/I find it kinda lame.

>>11800769
twin cobra
omega fighter special
air gallet

>>11796716
>Doom
You mean Wolfenstein, right?

I got a CPS2 Board A and Progear conversion B board for $375 and had fun with it. I didn't realized just how finicky CPS2 board are aboyt being inserted "just right" since I though the boards were defected suddenly, despite being shown them working. I feel it was a good deal, but on of the Board A's plastic holder pins was cracked, but it didn't affect anything and the supercap was changed before had so I don't need to worry about the Qsound going out. So I feel it was a good price over all. Back to Progear, loved everything about it despite the music being "meh" and wish it would get an anime since the story elements are strong within it. I know most people say it is a weaker CAVE game, but I enjoyed it a ton due to the artstyle making it memorable over generic typical shootemup artstyles out there.

>>11800491
Espgalula 2, you mean in the "novice" mode of console ports, right? Because if you manage to get to the last boss in normal mode, then you're already at an extremely advanced level, because that game is ridiculously difficult.

>>11795106
>marion hasshin!
I fucking love gunbird. Beating the game isn’t the point of the game. Well it is but, anyone with enough quarters can beat the game. Just keep playing and trying different strategies. Just play lots and learn the enemies. It’s a many many hour thing. Your initial goal should just be to clear a level without dying. Some enemies you have to kill right away. Some you can leave. Also your power goes down over time so getting power up’s as soon as you see them if you’re already maxed out isn’t always the best play.

>>11795082 (OP)
I've currently been working on Ketsui and finally made it to stage 4 a couple of times, although stage 3 is still a major choke point and I swear I'll just forget everything I learned during an hour long practice session before an actual run. Jamadhar is a cunt I swear. Also decided to get an LS-56 for my stick and am looking forward to trying it out later since I've heard good things about it.
>>11795106
I recommend to keep working on Monkey and then moving up one difficulty level every 1-ALL. Gunbird was my first shmup I cleared a few times and even though it is an easier Psikyo game you're still likely going to grind it out a bit for Normal and higher clears. I'd say it took me a good 30+ hours in all honesty and that was using Yuan-nang.

>>11805193
Yeah, it was the console version.

I have to polish my loop 1 survival

>>11805715
Nice.
I think everyone who cares about shmups should try DOJ, the game is just very solid all around.

>>11806445
No, you should play Dodonpachi, then try DOJ and wonder how CAVE regressed so much in just a couple years

>>11806723
I played both and thought DOJ was mostly better.

I remember getting Sega Classics Collection for my cousin for his birthday after seeing a somewhat decent review of it on X-Play. Fell in love with Fantasy Zone on it and played it for hours. Not particularly good at it because of how unforgiving it can be, but man the series is cute and charming as hell (same for Twinbee)

LORDS OF THUNDER™ SEGA™ CD

Bomb?

>>11796182
>lots of things are harder and more complex than pressing buttons in a semi-predetermined sequence according to muscle memory for 20-40 minutes
Such as?

isn't tempest basically a shmup

>>11795082 (OP)
drunk as shit rn
genesis had some bangers though
musha, trouble shooter, truxton, steel empire

>>11810337
>Such as?
Working in a factory and producing various "widgets."

IDGAF if they are considered retro by this boards rules or not, Angeraze and Angeraze 2 are very fucking fun.

>>11811662
based machinist.

>>11811664
>IDGAF if they are considered retro by this boards rules or not, Angeraze and Angeraze 2 are very fucking fun.
Imagine playing a game where you are a girl and you actually WANT to take loads from your enemies...
I'm assuming you are referencing a hentai game, right?

>>11796716
>and checkpoints forbid players to credit feed
I wish all shmoops had check points. I dont want to credit feed and feel like I overcame nothing, but I also want to keep trying at the stages I am stuck on without restarting the whole game. The only time I shoot for anything like a 1cc run, is when the game doesnt have checkpoints and thus it feels like its the only way to actually play the game as intended.

>>11800940
Sorry if this is naughty to say on /vr/ but I’m really excited for the m2 gradius collection coming out in a few months

>>11805256
I’ve been on and off on ketsui for a few months. Stage 2 is a huge choke point for me for some reason even after probably 10-15 hours of practice dedicated only to it. Stage 3 is a lot easier for me, I can consistently get the 1up from the aircraft carrier and no miss everything up to the boss fight. I just can’t pull it together in a real run in stage 2, I’ve done each individual segment dozens of times no miss but just can’t do the whole level

I love Namco

>>11806740
>Turning Opa-Opa into some serious edgy looking metal spaceship
Poor Opa-Opa didn't deserve the Megaman 1 box art treatment.

>try to get good at shmup
>improve
>after much effort, think "hey, this seems like I MIGHT actually be able to 1CC this with more practice"
>keep practicing
>get a little better
>more practice
>start getting worse, sections that I used to be able to breeze through start tripping me up again
>what the fuck
>get even worse, like regress back to the "I'm never going to be able to do this" stage
>maybe I just need a break
>give it a break for a couple days
>come back
>even worse than when I left off
>practice more
>watch skilled plays, people who apparently managed to 1CC the game after just a few hours of play - realize I've probably invested literally 10x as many hours and am still miles away from a clear
>don't get better
>give up
I don't know what it is, but I think I just have to admit that I didn't develop enough shmupping skills as a youth, and now that I'm in my mid 30s, I really just can't develop true skill at them and will have to settle for things like 3-5CCs as my skill ceiling for most titles.

>>11812245
I feel this too, have over 30 hours in Dodonpachi and can just barely finish the first loop with 2 credits every dozen tries or so.

Has there ever been a shmup that mixes up vertical and horizontal stages? Can be done in any sort of way. Just curious to know since I only ever seen them do one or the other but never both.

>>11812261
Axelay.

https://youtu.be/YIT03mDqX5Y

>>11812261
>>11812275
Salamander and Salamander 2.

>>11812261
First three stages of Progear are horizontal, then the fourth is vertical and the fifth is a hybrid

>>11795106
You do not. You just decide to play Twinkle Star Sprites instead and realize Gunbird is awful.

>>11812245
Stop making up bullishit about age or comparing yourself with other people, get back to the game.
If you aren't getting better with practice and you aren't just tired, then the issue might be about your focus.

>>11812312
It has fuck all to do with Gunbird, but yeah sure, that's a good shmup.

>>11795106
Pray to RnG that the train stage doesn't show up. That's how you beat Gunbirdo

>>11812393
Honestly it just becomes too depressing to see the regression, to the point that I don't enjoy playing.
I actually have family history of severe dementia, so whenever I have shitforbrains moments like these, the ever-present fear that I have early onset Alzheimers intensifies

>>11812451
If you aren't enjoying it anymore, fair enough, but don't be overly concerned about performance, other people, or age.
Clearing shmups is 50% practice and 50% state of mind, hardly anything else matters, at best you can go faster if you keep playing the genre and start to notice common patterns or learn common techniques like streaming bullets.

>>11812245
I didn't start playing Shmups until my very late teens/early 20s. Never played them until I started dabbling in emulation. I'm decent at older ones, a complete noob at bullet hells though

>>11812775
I would expect the opposite from new players, but yeah understandable, they do have some major differences in their design philosophies.
Dadshit is more about screen space, macrododging, killing enemies before they even spawn and so on, you get better by sheer repetition and muscle memory.
Danmaku is more about reading patterns, finding paths, knowing where to look on the screen and squeezing through tight gaps, you get better when your eyes get used to it even if you don't hard memo anything.

>>11812275
>World of Longplays

>>11812987
Not sure if you've read it, but the system11 thread of Shlongo (or whatever the World of LPs runner is called) trying to weasel around using TAS is pretty funny

>>11811930
Stage 2's midboss always throws me off in the second phase in all honesty. I don't know what it is but I tend to reset there a lot because I always misjudge where those bullets are heading. I'm impressed you find 3 easier though because after getting to 4 more consistently there's always something that's gonna slap me around there (particularly Jamadhar).

>>11812998
Post it

>>11812998
Schlauchi has a farm account? That's fun
At least he's not Valis77 the pedonigger

>>11812275
>>11812279
>>11812302
Not that I am shitting on these games they look decent enough. But I think I get why most shmups decide to do one or the other. I heard a lot about how Axelay is good but desu those vertical levels look quite weird and disorienting. I'm sure it was seen as cutting edge back in the day but it doesn't look all that great to me today.

What is the best dpad for danmakus?

>>11812783
Most people say to stick with one game til you hit your goal with it, but taking breaks and playing other cave games can be really helpful. The easier games can train you on things that the hard ones don’t give you a lot of practice on. For example, mushihimesama has really fast bullets that can make you feel like Neo
during your next few sessions in ddp or ketsui because the bullets will seem super slow. Esprade can train weaving through really tiny gaps since it uses a lot more walls of bullets

>>11812261
Life Force. It changes perspective after every level. Predictably since it’s a gradius game, the hori levels are awesome and the vert levels are just okay. M2 Shottriggers is making an original Salamander 3 for their new Gradius collection, if anyone is ever gonna get the hori/vert hybrid formula right in the modern era it’s going to be them so we’ll see what happens

>>11814676
A fair amount of really good danmakutists use Saturn pads
Dunno if there is a "best" but if there's a colloquial answer I'd assume it's that. Personally, I think a lot of PS2 and PS3 pads feels great

>>11814676
Whatever you’re already most comfortable using. Expensive/exotic equipment isn’t going to automatically make you better, just like with musical instruments or golf clubs or any other hobby

Decided to beat some more shoot em ups after not really playing any for a few years. Just finished Aleste 2. Didn't feel I deserved to ,with absolutely awful play, but they give you so many extra ships. I think I'll beat Space Megaforce next. I've played it before and got very far in, so should be easy to complete.
Then maybe some harder games I still need to beat like Hellfire and Eliminate Down.

>>11814676
Either the saturn or genesis pad, that baby feels so comfortable to play around. As a side note, the wireless ones have surprisingly low latency

Deathsmiles is the best Cave game. It's really polished (unusual for a cave game) and it's very unique. I just wished the train stage wouldn't exist, because the scoring in it is annoying. Graveyard stage, Forest and Swamp are the best stages. The last stages get a bit too crazy with suicide bullets.

>>11815087
Also it's a bit sad that the first stages are always so boring because you can't spawn suicide bullets there yet. There should be suicide bullets from the start depending on which stage difficulty you chose from.

>>11815087
I love the enemy and stage art, but hate the character designs. So I'm kind of torn on it. Definitely a top tier Cave game, though.
My favorite Cave game is Mushihimesama Futari because I like the fairy tale aesthetic better and Futari is better than the original. Also people whining about it know they can just play on normal, right?

>>11800491
>>11805193
>>11805598
I still have my old recording from 2011 (back when splitting uploads was still a thing) where I cleared Espgaluda 2 Black Label Novice. If I can do it, then it's probably noob friendly. I remember unlocking Omake mode, not knowing what the fuck it was, but it was probably just as easy. I also have a clear in Mushihimesama Futari Arrange Novice, so try that too.

>>11815093
That's why Mega Black Label exists, I suppose

>>11815118
Mushihimesama is nice but it simply lacks a good scoring system. It's just shoot and move.

Would nex machina and geometry wars count as shmups? both are 1 hit = death and has 1 cc runs.

>>11815732
The first is a twin-stick shooter, usually considered shmup adjacent although far enough from the same gameplay style. It's a bigger difference than something like dadshit and danmaku for sure.
The second actually predates shmups, not sure how was that called.

>>11815756
fair, was just wondering. gonna go through a journey of playin different dadshit and danmakus and wondered if i could add em to my list when rating em.

Danmaku are "dadshit". Donpachi is 30 years old. Scarlet Devil is 20.

>>11812261
Ether Vapor

>>11812261
Philosoma in PS1. Vertical, Horizontal, 3rd Person like After Burner (both in your front and back too).

>>11815803
But nobody who played them became a dad.

>>11815803
People who refer to something as "dadshit" are rapidly aging Gen Z shmuptroons who can't cope with the fact that they're approaching 30 themselves and will soon no longer be the younglings on the internet, as Gen Alphas begin to invade their websites of choice.

>>11816514
It's just an innocuous term, chill. Not everything is about your muh generation wars.
But genuinely you will probably not find many dads who grew up on danmaku.

>>11816526
Certainly not many who grew up in them, but you'll find plenty of (typically Euros) 40-50 somethings on the shmups.system11 forum and candy cab communities who jerk themselves silly to Cave.

This cover art goes hard

>>11816534
and what games did they grow up playing?

>>11799737
super raiden (pce) > raiden (pce) > raiden (genesis) >>>>> raiden (snes)

raiden snes is only worth playing because its easy. i got to the last stage on my first go, but its a bad port and a choppy mess

>>11800945
the pce soldier games all have caravan modes
that said, super star soldier is legitamately challenging. the rest are easy

>>11816559
Shmup cover arts are so good

It's a puzzle game.

>>11817710
All shmups are puzzle games. It's always about finding the best strategy for routes. Adding a color mechanic like in puzzle games was pretty smart.

>>11817141
>loli hugging a phallus symbol
Based Joker Jun

How do inget good at streaming in danmaku?

>>11795189
Yeah it's a cool game

>>11799737
Probably the worst Raiden

>>11799737
gameplay is accurate to raiden
sound is ass, and that's coming from someone who only likes sega

>>11796695
Gradius honestly is better than life force. Life Force is overrated

>>11799737
I don't know what the other anon is talking about but good sound but bad graphics. The colors are super dull and the scrolling isn't smooth, you can actually see it go pixel by pixel. However, it's still excellent on the Genesis, I just wished they fixed that. I wish Sega codeveloped it it in house with Seibu actually, considering how popular Raiden was clearly there was a case. The Genesis has lots of shmups like this, very solid games that come short of being ultimate mega all time classics for one reason or another.

with my spaceships of red blue and green
you'll hear the crowd of ladies scream
WE WANT TRUXTOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!

>>11818840
I wound up trying Gradius and enjoying it much more. Life Force has tons of memoshit in it, Gradius is a lot fairer.

>>11818840
What about Life Force (JP)?

What shmoop has the absolutely worse enemy bullet designs, as far as actually being able to see them?

What went wrong with Strikers Plus, except for the horivert AR? I've been playing the NeoGeo Switch port and it seems fun to me, although I am no shmup expert.

>>11812261
Legendary Wing

Rather than change perspective, I like it when vertical shooters incorporate terrain hazards.

>>11795082 (OP)
I've always played STGs with a d-pad, currently using the NSO SNES controller. I wanted to try playing with an arcade stick. Since I didn't want to spend a lot of money because it was just for testing, I bought a Hori Fighting Stick Mini. It looks like a fun way to play like that, but I sold it because I hate how cheap the buttons feel when you press them. What's a good arcade stick for Switch STGs? Note that I'm not into fighting games, I don't like them.

>>11819834
I really dislike the majority of their controllers, however the 8bitdo arcade stick is great value. The stock buttons and stick are decent, and it is very easy to mod if you want to upgrade down the line. It is probably the best wireless arcade controller you can get (BT/2.4g) - if you are somebody really bothered by small amounts of input-lag, you can also easily connect it with any USB-C cord. I have had mine for years now, and use it a lot on my Switch as well.

>>11819834
>What's a good arcade stick for Switch STGs?
None. STG-focused controllers doesn't exist. Buy something cheap and swap the parts for Seimitsus.

>>11819561
Salamander?

>>11816559
Best shmup on the PCE and low key one of best of the era.

>>11815080
How are retrobit's controllers compared to 8bitdo? Latency is important but what about the Dpad, button feel, membrane longevity, etc?

I've bought cheap gamepads and have the button membrane literally tear on me then offer no resistance.

>>11812245
Maybe try 1CCing one of the easier bullet hell games first like Touhou normal mode or either of the Mushihime-sama games on original. It'll still take a while, but know first-hand it is possible for people new to the genre. Using practice tools or save states when practicing is a must

>>11812245
Also that for every game unless you're playing it straight in very long sessions, you'll have to replay sections to keep up your skill with them. Randomly getting worse at parts is just how it works

>>11820487
>Best shmup on the PCE
Not Nexzr?

>>11820501
Retrobit wired saturn controller has 4-8ms latency which is its worst point (8bitdo m30 has 3-5ms). Otherwise I really like it.

I can only compare it to original saturn as I don't have the m30 (the thing looks too small for me). But the retrobit dpad is slightly more raised and floaty than the original saturn. For shmups I actually prefer it even over original (blasphemy) because you can put your thumb right in the middle and get really nice movement with minimal fatigue. As for the rest of the construction it's decent but maybe not elite. Not much else to comment on. Sticklers will notice the shoulder buttons are not as "clicky" but that's about it. Definately not cheap. The dpad is why you might want to buy it. It's my main controller.

See if anyone else chimes in.

>>11817141

>replay DOJ once more because why not
>actually just winging it at stage 4 rails and boss but it's cool so far, I remember how they go usually
>reach final stage with only one miss after several days of learning the game again
>lose everything before even making it to the final boss
Every single time. What a brutal stage holy shit.

>>11819736
I'm yet to see something worse than Garegga bullets.

Cave games are sadly too intense to play on my steam deck. Guess I have to stick to Radiant Silvergun and R-Type.

Can't wait for the R-Type Delta remaster. I always liked R-Type but never really played that one. Early polygon graphics were always just too outdated for me and the emulation for this kinda sucks.

>>11815080
>>11814865
Best replica with bluetooth connectivity? I've got my eye on the m30 but have had mostly negative experiences with 8bitdo in the past. Retrobit always seemed kind of budget to me.

>>11800491
>>11800693
>>11800705
>>11800940
>>11805193
>>11815130
I ended up settling on Gunvein as my first shmup to try and 1cc as it had a tutorial mode. The tutorial was pretty underwhelming, but the Mild mode is great as a noob. Not insurmountable challenge, but enough that I am having to work a bit to clear on a credit. I'm up to stage 4 after about 3 hours.

What was the last major innovation in game mechanics/design in STGs?

>>11795106
>Should I just watch Youtube videos of others playing and try to figure it out from there
That's what a lot of people do

>>11822927
Play Toaplan games and Thunder Force instead.

>>11808151
PC Engine CD version is better

What is your current average time to 1cc Caveshit, /shmupg/? I've been playing SOJ for what seems like an eternity bros....

>>11823839
about tree fiddy

>>11823839
Heavily depends on the game, and your skill of course.
DOJ(original), SDOJ and Ketsui are all on the harder side so even 1-ALLs can take serious practice. But if you asked about something like Mushi Original then you will probably not even need a single week.

>>11823839
I'll let you know when I actually am able to 1-ALL at least one of them. Closest I've ever gotten was the second half of Stage 5 on Espgaluda 1.

>>11824353
Galuda isn't that bad at all, but get ready for a long boss fight at the end and don't bother saving your Kakusei.

>>11823839
Take it with a huge chunk of salt but, around 20~40 hours to get a CAVE 1-ALL if you haven't played CAVE games before but still have some experience in shmups. And depends on the games anyways

>>11824372
I agree that it's not that bad but for whatever reason 5 just beats the shit out of me. Going to try to make a save state there to just practice it one of these days.

Space Megaforce is kind of growing on me. Like most SNES shooters, the graphics/sound effects put me off at first, they don't seem quite right, but it is actually quite fun.

>>11824457
It's a good idea to make save states at the start of each stage yeah, bosses too in CAVE games, they are more involved than many other shmups

Mushi is fucked... I didn't know there actually was a stronger shot by exploiting a bug where you use the normal autofire and the interval autofire at the same time, resulting in a stronger shot. I already thought the weird scoring system is fucked, where you shoot bosses in certain intervals for more score, but this takes the cake.

Deathsmiles is awesome tho. Just had a run after a logn time and I was still able to use my old routes more or less and made it to the double cyclopses in the last stage. The last stage is pure chaos tho. It's really hard to not get hit by random unseen suicide bullets in it.

>>11795082 (OP)
what is a good shmup for beginners? i fucking suck at these games and end up save stating to win because i hate limited lives

Does Aleste and Aleste 2 for MSX still holds up?

>>11823839
Cave games usually get exponentially more difficult the more you try to score in them. When replaying them I usually also always try to score to keep the first stages interesting, so for me it can take long depending on the game.

You can clear shmups relatively fast with effective savestate practice, but I never do this. I always take my time with games and try to learn them more organically, not approach it like learning for a vocabulary test.

>>11825128
Like Dreamer

>>11825128
Mushi is fucked, but I think it's a great game for beginners,. At least the steam version, not sure about the others. There are just so many modes you can chose from, that it has something for everyone. Plus the gameplay is pretty simple and straight forward. The scoring system is basically non exisent for me in this game, because it's kinda shit.

>>11825143
Seconding this. Both the steam version and the Xbox sequel (Mushihimesama Futari) have a novice mode to get you started.

>>11825129
I just beat Aleste 2 the other day, never played it before. Thought it was very fun and worth playing. Good graphics, great music, classic Aleste mechanics. Feels about the same difficulty as Power Strike 2 on Master System. Which is to say, it seems really crazy at first, but actually anyone can beat it.
It has the weapon timers from Aleste 1, but weapon drops move down the screen, not up, so it isn't frustrating like Aleste 1.

>>11823839
Welcome to shmups, anon.

>>11821336
Thanks anon, I've read reviews and Reddit seems to be very adamant about using 8bitdo controllers, like it's a unanimous opinion over there and they are quite against Retrobit. How much this has to do with shill marketing I don't know.

>>11825128
Submarine Attack

>>11825154
It's funny how they made it so beginner friendly on purpose but then also put in the Ultra mode in these games.

>>11825447
Trying to appeal to multiple kinds of players is cool.
It ain't too different than doing multiple loops

How many people here are from /shmupg/?

>>11825593
Hopefully none

>>11825568
>It ain't too different than doing multiple loops
Well, the ultra modes are notoriously bullet hellish. It's almost like playing a different game compared to the other modes. Loops in games mostly just add suicide bullets and maybe makes bullets faster or whatever.

I always play shmups on steam deck in tate mode. It works acceptable if you just map the tracking pad as a bomb button. Just requires little pauses between the stages because it's a bit exhausting for the fingers.

>>11825630
Also the back buttons can be mapped as A and B buttons.

>>11825607
Rude, shmupg was tough, always on the verge of dying, just liek the genre

>>11821336
I don't know. My experience with 8bitdo is underwhelming. I got the wireless SNES controller for some lazy couch action and it's kinda meh. The dpad is way too stiff compared to original or classic controllers. Maybe people equate stiffness with quality but personally I don't really like it. Personal choice of course.

>>11825210
Sorry, I replied to you here >>11826039

I have barely played any shmups and never for long. Just tried Devil Blade Reboot, heard it is a good game, but also very approachable for newbies to the genre. The damn graphics an eye sore, though. Makes it very hard to focus on the details when they look like shit. Also I feel like it would be a lot easier to play on a smaller scree, or I guess go further away from my screen.
Am I wrong?

>>11826440
Being able to see the whole screen is better yeah

What PS1 SHMUP has the best music in your opinion? Bonus points if the game is actually good too.

>>11826440
>Devil Blade Reboot
>eye sore

>>11826994
If I don't have to focus on it, it is fine. Honestly there are plenty of retro games that look sharper.

>>11826943
Raystorm and Raycrisis

>>11827529
Pick 1 for me to play next as I am indecisive and too lazy to do my own research