>Last week, electronics engineer Lorentio Brodesco announced the completion of a mock-up for nsOne, reportedly the first custom PlayStation 1 motherboard created outside of Sony in the console's 30-year history. The fully functional board accepts original PlayStation 1 chips and fits directly into the original console case, marking a milestone in reverse-engineering for the classic console released in 1994.

>It's a desirable project for some PS1 enthusiasts because a custom motherboard could allow owners of broken consoles to revive their systems by transplanting original chips from damaged boards onto new, functional ones. With original PS1 motherboards becoming increasingly prone to failure after three decades, replacement boards could extend the lifespan of these classic consoles without resorting to emulation.

archive.ph/DwdPv

The absolute state of hardwarefags

>>11796947
>This is bad because... it just is, ok?

>>11796936 (OP)
>transplanting original chips
This is impressive, but accurately reproducing custom chips is the real sticking point when it comes to hardware preservation. As far as I'm aware, PS mobos aren't prone to having tracerot, so you're more likely to encounter failed or otherwise damaged chips than you are a bad PCB. Maybe for 50 years down the road this ability will be helpful, but until then I don't see many people bothering with something like this.

Are the chips or the motherboard more prone to failure?

>>11796953
of course not
it's the capacitors

>>11796953
Unless somebody has badly fucked up with a mod or stepped on it, the chips. That said, I don't think original PlayStations have any particularly notable failure points outside of the disc drives/lasers, and I guess bad caps which can occur with any old electronics. Certainly nothing on the scale of, say, early model SNES CPU/PPU failures. I'm sure some people will populate these for the novelty, perhaps designing some sort of new slim shell which just uses an ODE instead of a disc drive or something.

>>11796947
Not everyone has a magic computer that functions without internal hardware components.

>>11796936 (OP)
I mean that's cool. I think it would be a good opportunity to make this a console that integrates an HDMI mod and xstation and everything. I see the spot there for I'm guessing a Multimode 3.

>>11796972
>Certainly nothing on the scale of, say, early model SNES CPU/PPU failures

The first revision CPU had a die hot spot afaik and was prone to failure, this was fixed on subsequent revisions.

>>11796952
>>11796972
I don't think I've ever heard of a PS1 with nuked ICs unless someone did a poorly advised mod and accidentally zapped something. The chips are CMOS components that don't generate any significant heat when running which is the most common IC failure mode.

>>11796936 (OP)
Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power

>>11797082
>The first revision CPU had a die hot spot
I've seen people suggest using a higher rated voltage regulator plus a capacitor across said regulator to help prolong the lifespan of early SNESs, but I'm not sure if that actually helps anything or if it's just snakeoil to make people feel better until they wind up failing regardless. The added cap does seem to remove the vertical bar, so at least it has some benefit regardless.

>>11797117
The fault is not an overvoltage issue, the CPU-A in SHVC models specifically had a design flaw that was corrected in subsequent revisions of the chipset. While it's true that US model SNES should only be used with an OEM PSU or the board will have no power line filtering otherwise that's a separate issue.

>>11796947
Intelligent and unbelievably based?

>>11797153
the filter cap is in the power brick while SFC and PAL SNES have it on the mainboard (no idea why though. FCC regs?) you can mod a US SNES and put the cap on the board though. otherwise don't use a third party PSU with one.

>>11796947
Their autism and their refusal to let their home consoles die should be praised in its own ways despite the costs and effort. I may be an emulatorfag nowadays but if they can pretty much wholesale reproduce and replace factors of old systems that are still compatible with and running hardware without any alterations to performance and output, then they're as much a contribution to the legacy of these systems as the technical understanding of the code.

>>11796936 (OP)
This is is very cool but I would prefer new FPGA consoles.

>>11796936 (OP)
They oughta make this chip-stealing fuckerboard work with xstation without any pin lifting

>>11797457
pretty sure it'd install to the board like any other playstation

>>11797338
>FPGA
gay
I'd prefer people design a PS1 on a chip and get asics made.

>>11796936 (OP)
>With original PS1 motherboards becoming increasingly prone to failure after three decades, replacement boards could extend the lifespan of these classic consoles without resorting to emulation.
The tech illiterate journalist who wrote this spiel should be laughed out of the industry.
PS1's proprietary chips and the laser are the failure points. The motherboard itself is NOT the failure point, it's not like the traces are rotting off of the fucking board. Even if there was trace issues, those are easily repaired with wire patches. Slapping the same old parts on a new motherboard isn't going to fix or change anything. Replacing the old parts with modern equivalents would help things. Creating drop-in replacements like Caius does for arcade chips, that would help. This is meaningless.

>>11797549
Yes, exactly. Creating replacements for custom ICs is what genuinely extends the life of old hardware. All too often you'll look at an arcade repair log and the solution winds up being something like "board boots with bad graphics; harvested Konami N636eg5 from parts board; fixed," which basically means you've just kicked the can down the road with equally old part which, if the previous one were a victim of spontaneous failure due to manufacturing defect, could just as well fail in short order.

>>11797308

>>11796936 (OP)
this doesn't even have any tracing done if you read his reddit comments, it's a dud. he just transplanted the chips to a blank board. this is a scam.

>>11796947
It's called hobby.

Would the nsOne have saved the PlayStation in the west?

>>11796936 (OP)
>owners of broken playstation consoles

Cool but if it's still using original components then it's basically pointless. It can't be mass-produced by chinks, Sony won't mass-produce it either again since they don't have the parts
I'll listen to counterarguments but seems pretty pointless

>>11799135
I guess in the long run it could be helpful if the custom parts are ever produced, then you could manufacture ODE-ready clone hardware. Granted, I don't foresee thay happening in the near future, unless certain parts start failing at an alarming rate and it prompts somebody to create clones. The fact that even though SNES CPUs have a higher than usual failure rate, a problem which has been observed for years, and nobody has made a modern drop-in replacement probably isn't a good sign. Unless people take it upon themselves to do it largely out of sheer dedication to the hobby, like caius has been doing with arcade customs, I don't foresee there being a significant profit motive for doing so within the next 20+ years.

>>11796936 (OP)
>this is the first board made outside sony
>you need to put the chips of your original ps1 to get it to work.
well not the first, i bought a chinese console it was kinda expensive (to be chinese) but was worth it.
>VCD player
>Div X player
>Mp3 player
>Could play any CD backup of ps1 games without issue.
that's the kind of stuff you want, not a shitty board like that one.

>>11796936 (OP)
cool and skilled
based
>>11796947
idiotic poorfag brainlet cannot appreciate skill amd art

>>11799160
>emulated
o dear

>>11799154
>The fact that even though SNES CPUs have a higher than usual failure rate, a problem which has been observed for years, and nobody has made a modern drop-in replacement probably isn't a good sign
you can still get new 65816 CPUs from WDC the one custom modification to the chip here is the DMA controller

>>11796936 (OP)
> just replace original hardware with a repairable fault for this shit, faggots
no thanks

>>11799154
>SNES CPUs have a higher than usual failure rate
so high and unusual that there's nothing to find on the internet about it. same cancerous nonsense has been going around since the apple 2gs days. shut the fuck up, thanks.

>>11799293
it's not like this faggot even knows what a 65816 is and i doubt that faggot even has snes. this board has so many schizophrenics that it makes /pol/ look sane.

>>11799250
who said about emulation? i said "could play any cd backup of ps1" and this was on 2004.
Chinese are more advanced, take ps3 as an example they simply learnt how to make burnt BR play on original ps3 or copy cheap pressed BR copies (got a ps3 game is thinner compared to original games but it plays without issue).

the SNES CPU had a custom QFP package and the on-chip DMA controller as anon said but the core circuitry was mostly the standard 65816

>>11797338
>I prefer gay looking half emulated mockups

What's the purpose though? Like many here have said, the least likely part of a PSX to fail is the motherboard, and this appears to be a drop-in replacement for existing motherboards, meaning it has no real enhancements that might make it useful.

No using USB-C or some other more modern power supply, no addition of HDMI, no option for wireless controllers, no ODE-like options, no tiny footprint to fit into a smaller/portable case, no additional features whatsoever. Just how many people have a PSX with a fully working set of ICs, ports, power supply, AND optical drive... but somehow the PCB itself is screwed up?

it's a scam, bro

>>11799303
>so high and unusual that there's nothing to find on the internet about it
Did you even look? There's plenty of people talking about it, and if you follow any SNES repair people, you'll find them dealing with having to swap CPUs. And for SOME reason, Nintendo saw fit to revise the CPU, even before the switch to 1-chip, which I doubt they just did for the fuck of it.

>>11799423
>What's the purpose though?
nobody really knows. i think it's one of those projects where the person did it because they could, which would explain why it's only going to be a limited production. probably testing the waters and then revise the board with options.. maybe. who knows.

>that place for a modchip
very nice

>>11799564
The CPU-A in SHVC units was the source of the problem. It had a manufacturing flaw that was corrected in Revision B and C units. The chip had another issue as well where the DMA controller didn't work correctly and was unreliable above a certain speed.

>>11799606
We think it was a die hot spot as the behavior exhibited by the chips is consistent with that. The Commodore Plus/4 CPU was a well-known example of a faulty die layout that produced a hot spot and caused failure of the chip.

>>11796936 (OP)
If this includes support for optical disc emulators and more RAM (and possibly VRAM if that's a distinct chip) then I would nut.

>>11799135
>Sony won't mass-produce it either again since they don't have the parts
Let's me clear. The chips COULD be mass produced again. But Sony realistically will never do it. There's to no profit in it for them to remake the 1990s chips.

And even in the 1% chance Sony even slightly cared, they would rather just use cheaper modern chips and emulate the games.

>>11800682
>And even in the 1% chance Sony even slightly cared, they would rather just use cheaper modern chips

There's nothing expensive about 30 year old chip tech lol stuff is really simple compared to modern chips.

>>11800691
It's not about expense. It's a waste of resources. Back in the 1990s these PS1 chips were almost the best Sony could do.

But today it would be a waste of expensive raw silicon material to make chips that no one uses anymore. Like using a Ferrari engine to power a tractor.

>>11800719
thanks for the tip, Reddit

>>11797507
Well you could essentially do that from an FPGA developed PS1 considering FPGAs are mainly used for prototyping ASICs.

Get to work!

>>11800727
Can use a Mister Fpga because all the Mister plug-ins can't be used in commercial products.

>>11800873
>Can
CAN'T *

Sorry typo

>>11796936 (OP)
Emulation is just better.

>>11800682
>Let's me clear. The chips COULD be mass produced again.
Doubtful, the fabrication facilities for tech like that likely do not exist anymore. Fabs have to be specifically designed for the nodes they are creating, you can't just produce a 500nm chip on modern 7nm fab. There are some old chips still being made for some legacy uses, but those are REALLY old chips that far predate the PS1 and have much larger nodes.

Tech to specifically produce the PS1's CPU and GPU likely does not exist anymore, just like how tech to produce new CRTs doesn't really exist anymore.

>>11800691
Yes there is when you would have to rebuild fabrication facilities using decades old designs. Also like >>11800682 said they would just emulate, vast majority of people who would potentially buy such a product would have not care or notice a difference. Provided they do a better job than the joke that was the PlayStation Classic.

>>11800873
>Mister plug-ins can't be used in commercial products.
Ahem

>>11800873
>>11802489
Ahem again

>>11802483
there's nothing special about the PS1 chipset from a mfg standpoint other than that you might use a smaller node size today. it would be much harder to produce say an SID because it's NMOS and the chip's particular characteristics came out of MOS's loose manufacturing tolerances.

WDC for eg. still makes new 6502s for embedded use although the modern ones are 600 nm not the 5 or 3.5 um sizes they used in the 80s.

>>11802503
>replying to a multi-replier
No.

>>11802503
Node sizes aren't that big a factor, you can shrink a chip down as much as you like until you reach a certain practical limit where the die size would get too small. In that case you mentioned 600 nm is the smallest practical size a 6502 could be made in given the transistor count.

>>11802523
>Mentally incapable of understanding a post that replies to two people instead of one.
Sad.

>>11802483
>Doubtful, the fabrication facilities for tech like that likely do not exist anymore.
The original machines are gone, but the new machines can be used.

Also the old original fabrications machines might still exist. They were sold to China. And in China they are used to manufacture inexpensive chips used in very low end cheap consumer products. China is notorious for buying old Japanese manufacturing equipment and electronics equipment.

>Fabs have to be specifically designed for the nodes they are creating, you can't just produce a 500nm chip on modern 7nm fab.
You CAN but it's not wise. The new machines can be used to manufacture older chip designs, but it would be incredibly inefficient and wasteful. Older Chips still require silicon and raw materials just like new chips.

Buying all that raw silicon (which costs hundreds of millions) just to make 35 year old computer chips (that won't sell much) will be the biggest waste of money for Sony. It makes no sense from a business perspective. It would take multiple miracles for Sony to ever consider doing this.

>>11802489
>>11802490
>hardware

Anon you don't get it. The hardware can be used. That's not the problem. But "legally" some of the Mister cores can't be used without permission from the creator. The same reason why the MAME emulator can't legally be used in commercial products.

That doesn't stop some companies from still doing it and installing it in their products, but legally they are in the wrong.

>>11802660
>But "legally" some of the Mister cores can't be used without permission from the creator.
I am not saying the cores have some sort of DRM on them that would prevent them from being used in commercial products. I am saying there are commercial products that use MiSTer cores being made, by people from the MiSTer community. They aren't some megacorp that would be legally untouchable, or being made in secret, or taking advantage that it would be hard to stop them from China or anything like that. There are commercial products that use MiSTer cores being made that the MiSTer community is even in favor of.

>>11802741
The commercial products are being sold using Mister cores, but can you actually confirm they received legal permission from the Core creators? These cores are released under specific Terms and Conditions and licenses.

And outside of that, I'm sure some people outside of the Mister community are using the cores in an unauthorized manner.

The Mister community just doesn't have the money to stop them. Especially if they are in China since China has no copyright enforcement and encourages trademark theft.

>>11802656
there's nothing special about node sizes. basically you set the node size by using a lens to focus a laser beam when etching a die and the tighter the beam focus the smaller the etching can be. different lenses can be used depending on the desired size. however to simplify logistics most fabs will have a couple production lines each one set to a different node size that will be used. and not every chip needs 10 nm if you're making something like an alarm clock you're only dealing with simple ICs that have a low transistor count so older larger nodes will be used for those.

>>11802815
>The commercial products are being sold using Mister cores, but can you actually confirm they received legal permission from the Core creators? These cores are released under specific Terms and Conditions and licenses.
These products are being made by people in the MiSTer community, the official forums are even talking about them in a positive manner. If they were just stealing from MiSTer I doubt the people on the official forums and various FPGA sites/youtube channels would be so welcoming of them.

>>11802871
Without knowing for sure I assume the PS1 chips were probably around 800 nm given the time period and they likely did at least one die shrink over its lifespan.

>>11796936 (OP)
>could allow owners of broken consoles to revive their systems
>90% of malfunctions are because laser or power supply.

Kek

>>11802901
the early model PS1 with the parallel port are most likely to have those faults as the power supply in those got pretty hot when running

>>11802503
NMOS is simpler to do than CMOS it's just a matter of why would you want to?

>>11797085
I wonder how long such chips will last. Especially if they aren't stored in a stable environment. The SNES already has failing chips, I guess because of corrosion

The Reddit in this thread is so painful it literally makes my head hurt.

>>11797085
unless there's an inherent design flaw chips don't tend to commonly fail short of overheating or overvoltage

>>11803025
Is the reddit in the room with us right now?

>>11802882
First of all there is no central "Mister Community". There are bunch of seperate people working on Mister. Each core released has its own terms of service that yoh must agree to if you use it.

>I doubt the people on the official forums and various FPGA sites/youtube channels would be so welcoming of them.
It's more like these core creators don't have the money to pursue legal action. Like how Nintendo doesn't sue every single Rom hosting site or sue every single custom arcade manufacturer. It's not worth it financially for Nintendo to do so.

How about adapting existing chips? Yes, I am that retarded.

>>11803120
>First of all there is no central "Mister Community". There are bunch of seperate people working on Mister.
Most of them communicate across the same social sites. I am not saying there is some kind of MiSTer Co. LTD , the community IS said bunch of people working on it and communicating with each other. And this includes the people making the two products that were posted.

>It's more like these core creators don't have the money to pursue legal action.
It's more that they are perfectly fine with it and even in favor of these devices. You really have no idea about any of this if you think the Superstation or Multisystem 2 are some sneaky product stealing from MiSTer that the core creators are pissed off about.

>>11803213
>You really have no idea about any of this if you think the Superstation or Multisystem 2 are some sneaky product stealing from MiSTer that the core creators are pissed off about.
I'm willing to bet they are breaking some sort of terms of use if we seriously examine the legal language.

>>11796936 (OP)
Interesting on a conceptual level but I don't know what you're supposed to do with this. Do you take the chips from a PSX mobo and put it on there?

>>11802815
If the cores are gpl they dont need jack shit.

>>11803273
Prove it, you seem to be insisting this is the case but everything else in just about every MiSTer social site, which includes the very people who made these cores, seem to have no problem with it.

>>11803278
>Do you take the chips from a PSX mobo and put it on there?
Pretty much, which as I said in >>11799423 I don't see the point since the PCB is the least likely part to fail compared to the working parts you are meant to harvest from a PSX and it doesn't give you any additional features or enhancements over a stock PSX.

https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/11803302/

Go on arcade-museum forum they discuss removing rust from chip legs. Do it the right way though so you don't remove metal from the legs and thin/weaken them.

>>11803489
That SNES had a CPU-A so it was probably fucked in any case.

>>11802483
Consoles went through multiple revisions and die shrinks. They are not married to any particular process node.

>boots up emulator
anyway

>>11803985
I swear, emufags are like vegans or people who do crossfit.

>>11803986
No, that would be coomlectors who won't shut up about the hidden gem they purchased for $2000 and make several youtube videos about it

>>11803940
The node size used is an average of what's practical for the transistor count mostly. The more transistors the small it will generally be although you can shrink any die down as much as you like until you reach a practical limit of it being too tiny for the amount of transistors present.

>>11803940
>>11803489
The SNES originally had 1.5 um chips, the PPU had to be split in two as they couldn't fit everyone on one IC. Later with 1 Chip units it was shrunk to 800 nm and the PPU combined into one.

>>11804301
Collectors don't take any opportunity to go "I collect games" when people are talking about emulation, talk about playing games on anything physical though and emufags will come out of the woodwork to go "I just emulate!"

So yes, I would say it's a pretty apt description of emufags