Are there any lists showing which PAL games are faithful to the intended experiences and which ones differ from the original (NTSC) versions greatly?
I've stumbled upon https://gw.eternal.dk/pal for NES games and I wonder if there are any such lists for other consopes.

>>11797248 (OP)
We don't need a list, because the answer is 0. Its mathematically impossible for a game to play exactly the same in PAL as it does on NTSC. So called pal-optimized games are mangled messes, with various parts of the game out of sync with other parts, and physics behaviors somewhat broken too.

>>11797454
PAL is just a video standard, buddy

>>11797552
Yes, that runs at 50hz. Its impossible to take a 60hz game and make it run at 50hz in a way that is faithful to the original 60hz version.

>>11797574
Hz of video output is not necessarily related to internal frame rate

Are there euro developed games that run poorly in 60hz? Seems like something you don't hear about

>>11797605
This. Albeit I don't expect many retro games to bother with having framerate independent game cycle/physics and threaded output and keeping shit the same but using different output methods.
Hell, not even a lot of games today really do that.

>>11797552
It’s also a standard of friendship, pal <3

>>11797454
>Its mathematically impossible for a game to play exactly the same in PAL as it does on NTSC
6th gen consoles were fast enough to do deltaTime so this is actually wrong. Otherwise online play between PAL and NTSC versions of games would be impossible.

>>11797682
Why was this so rare on console games anyway? Even with Doom in 1993 you'd still move at full speed if your game dropped from 30 to 15 FPS, your framerate would just be lower
Couldn't something like that be done to make the whole NTSC to PAL thing a non-issue?

>>11797248 (OP)
>iNtEnDeD eXpErIeNcEs
literally no one cares
grow the fuck up and just play video games

>>11798168
Doom is not based on delta-time. The game engine always steps at 35Hz. When behind it skips the render step.

As for running a 60hz game at 50hz by uncoupling the game engine from the rendering. Technically possible, but it would not run very well at all, especially for 8/16 bit systems. You would have lots of frame drops and stutters. These systems have limited memory so you could not double buffer the game state, so the game engine and screen redraw would be serialized, which would cause lots of frames to be missed.

>>11798178
enough people care to compile a list of PAL NES games

>>11797248 (OP)
The complete European Sega Saturn 60Hz guide to PAL optimised games
https://randomisedgaming.tumblr.com/post/146372446412/the-complete-european-sega-saturn-60hz-guide-to

>>11798328
>Exhumed - Unoptimised

This is incorrect. I know everything there is to know about Exhumed/Powerslave on Saturn and the PAL version has some forms of optimization.
Most behaviours were optimized for 50hz with only hitscan weapons (the revolver and the M60) being slightly slower than in the NTSC versions, and even that may not be an optimization issue but could possibly be a balance issue as the PAL version, despite being released later, is an earlier revision of the game (as proven by some useless bit of architecture that were taken out in a level to make it less laggy, or the fact that it misses tons of HP/Weapon replenishing spheres that were added in the other versions; or the fact that it has a couple of extra glitches not present in other versions).

>>11798258
no its not possible
there is no frame buffer on a NES, SMS, SNES, Genesis, or TG16

>>11798341
>>11798328
Forgot to mention but the UK was where Saturn Powerslave was the most successful, mostly due to the great magazine coverage they got there. Even before the game was released the hype for the game was really built up so it makes sense they'd go the extra mile.

Furthermore the Saturn versions of Duke Nukem 3D and Quake made by the same devs were also optimized, as pointed out by that site. I wonder why they'd get Powerslave wrong.

>>11798348
> there is no frame buffer on a NES, SMS, SNES, Genesis, or TG16
Sprite display lists and tile maps are functionally equivalent to a frame buffer.

>>11798496
Wat.

>>11798348
There is no "frame buffer"
But its not drawing line by line and doing logic line by line either, there is a actual frame of data that has to be sent trough the video out async to the logic needed to build that frame.

>>11798529
Fundamentally a frame buffer is a chunk of VRAM the gpu uses as the source data for the scan out.
The tile maps and sprite display lists serve the exact same purpose.

>>11798341
report it to that tumblr user

There is no list because it's not a black-and-white thing. Some games run slower, some games are squashed, some games are neither, some games are slower AND THEY'RE BETTER because they're slower. Looking at you shmups.
Some games are pick your poison, for examplo ICO for the PS2. It's 60hz in the US, but it was rushed out while the European version was released later and is actually complete, but now it's 50hz and squashed.

There's no mega list because that would have to be an incredibly schizophrenic person to do that. You just have to check the games out both versions and make your own conclusion

>>11797574
For most early 3D games it'd even be beneficial to run at 50hz
50hz allows for a longer time between frames, therefore a game that's struggling to reach good frame rates well below 50fps such as most N64 games would have more time to render each frame and thus run faster.
In reality the only games to ever take advantage of PAL frametimes are PAL exclusive games, which then couldn't be ported to NTSC without major reworking

>>11798569
Retard

>>11797454
There's a hack of NES Tetris that takes advantage of the MMC3's scanline counter to run the game's internal logic and input polling at steady frame rates other than 60 fps. You can set the game speed multiplier to any fraction comprised of only numbers 1 through 6. So 1/6 will run the game at 10hz (6 times slower than normal speed), 6/6 at 360hz (6 times faster than normal speed), and so on. This allows you to play PAL speed on NTSC consoles by setting the speed multiplier to 5/6, and NTSC speed on PAL consoles by setting the speed multiplier to 6/5. In the attached gif, my emulator is set to 50hz mode, yet the game plays identically to how it would if it was in NTSC mode since I set the speed multiplier to 6/5.

The 6x speed multiplier is only possible since Tetris is a very simple game that isn't taxing on the CPU. (At 1x speed, less than 10% of the frame is spent actually calculating logic. The rest is just the CPU spinning while waiting for the next frame to start.) The 6/5x multiplier would definitely be possible for most games though, considering the PAL NES has more CPU cycles per frame than the NTSC NES (29780.5 cycles per frame for NTSC vs 33247.5 cycles per frame for PAL).

>>11797454
you're actually retarded a lot of games like tombraider were developed for pal and there is no difference on pal 60 at all

imagine being a bittler little tech illiterate troll like you jingoistic about obsolete TV standards, you projectile vomited yourself out the other side of sad, beyond pathetic to the pre an hero zone
>>11797248 (OP)
>NES games
only brandfsggots and iwatch users give a fuck about nintendo

>>11797454
It's only mathematically impossible to sync every frame of video to be the exact same. But multiple games have very satisfying PAL ports that play at the correct speed. I live in NTSC land but when I first started emulating in the early 00s I knew nothing about standards and got a bunch of ROMs from all over the net, some NTSC, some PAL, and mostly had no issue, until I learned about having a standard set. I assume multiple games were developed PAL-first in Europe and mostly nobody cares about emulating the PAL versions of Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye, Tomb Raider, Wipeout, Worms,etc. I know the Genesis port of Shadow of the Beast plays too fast in NTSC just like some NTSC games ported to PAL play too slow but that is just bad programming.

>>11800082
My post was made in the context of more complex games. Tetris being very simple game means you can get away with uncoupling the game engine from the frame rate. The real decider is how much time it takes to execute a game engine step. If your execution time is consistently less than half the active frame time, then you can speed scale it. But most games are designed to use all the cpu power available. Maybe you could go back and ultra optimize the code to get the frame time down to below half though. But it would be a lot of additional work.

>>11800428
> I assume multiple games were developed PAL-first in Europe and mostly nobody cares about emulating the PAL versions of Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye, Tomb Raider, Wipeout, Worms,etc.

Actually there are plenty of games developed in Europe which intended speed is for 60hz. Like Rare games, which always targetted the American and Japanese markets as a priority. The PSX PAL version of Rayman is also apparently slowed down according to another anon. It's a misconception to think that "european devs = I should pick the PAL version of the game"

>>11800428
Does anyone care about emulating Worms to begin with? Armageddon runs on potatoes and there are like 5 million clones for all sorts of platforms.

>>11800428
I remember everyone playing some PAL version of Super Metroid with German subtitles for some reason.

>>11798341
>as proven by some useless bit of architecture that were taken out in a level to make it less laggy

That might not be relevant because PAL consoles have more CPU time per frame, so they lag less. You can look around on the excavation site in Panzer Dragoon Saga, in 60Hz mode the game will drop the framerate, in 50Hz mode it won't. The same may apply to Exhumed.