>likes retro gaming, acknowledges that innovation can happen from limitations
>doesn't like handheld gaming because of its underpoweredness relative to the time
How do these people exist?

>>11799474 (OP)
People who didn't grow up with them don't understand not having cell phones and that this was literally the most high tech affordable option for outdoor unwired entertainment , you just had to be there, not playing on an emulator

>>11799474 (OP)
>>11799493
handheld games aren't real games and aren't canon. also for children
t. played pokemon on the gbc during its 90s craze

>>11799518
They're the same thing with less pixels, but more than 8 bit

GBA is more powerful than snes

>>11799474 (OP)
A games graphical fidelity is a function of its quality relative to its release date. I don't factor its platform into the equation or if I do I barely consider it. Handheld games take extreme graphical and gameplay concessions and their only benefit is portability, that rarely offsets their shortcomings. Handheld games do not compare well to console games of the same era except when the portability aspect is an actual attribute to the gameplay, most notably in the case of Pokemon which is a social experience.

>>11799518
did you play other handheld games besides pokemon
>>11799634
I think the handheld market allowed games that wouldn't have happened on console for various reasons
>A games graphical fidelity is a function of its quality relative to its release date.
If you're playing it in the current year why would it make a difference if Game Boy games have the power of NES a generation later or that GBA was 32 bit when they had gamecube/ps2? its all old now and you can play any era whenever

>>11799474 (OP)
I grew up with the GameBoy and enjoy it. If anything, I feel like zoomies are more likely than older gamers to be particularly fascinated with retro handhelds, probably because they grew up with smartphones.

>>11799704
which games did you play

>>11799707
The first GB game I owned was Super Mario Land 2. Beyond that, Kirby's Dreamland, KDL2, Wario Land, Pokemon Red, and Pac-Man. I skipped the Pocket (well, I did get one in the 2000s, but that was after it was already outdated) and got a Color, for which I got Link's Awakening DX, WL2, WL3, Pokemon Gold, Bomberman Max Challenger, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. And then GBA. I didn't have a GG or NGP/NGPC as a kid, but like the Pocket, I got those after the fact.

>>11799474 (OP)
I never cared about the graphics on GB, GBC or GBA, I just always despised screens with no backlight and still do. I'd rather play on a Game Gear or Atari Lynx for 3 hours being comfortable than being miserable squinting my eyes for 30 hours, it just sucked.

>>11799685
>If you're playing it in the current year why would it make a difference if Game Boy games have the power of NES a generation later or that GBA was 32 bit when they had gamecube/ps2? its all old now and you can play any era whenever
My point is if you compare a retro console game and a retro handheld game, both at the cutting edge of their respective platform's graphical and developmental limits, only one was actually impressive in period. A retro handheld game already had to have an asterisk next to it and playing it in 2025 puts an asterisk on the asterisk. If you view both games as being graphically out of date, comparing to modern standards, then you would have a different opinion. I don't.

>>11799518
I was wondering where you went

I don't think the anti-handheld people are kids, but rather people who lived through that era and at the time had developed some sort of "handheld games = inferior" image that still lingers in their brains to this day.
Also they pretty much only mean Game Boy when they say "handheld," since e.g. the Lynx is obviously more capable than a NES, and the Game Gear is just a Sega Master System that's traded screen resolution for a larger color palette and stereo sound.

>>11799474 (OP)
GB-GBC had some cool games, but it was underpowered even compared to NES, and most companies just cheapened out on it, they had this attitude like "who cares, kids are gonna buy it". The quality standard was extremely low.
Pokemon and FFL were the few that actually tried something completely new, and guess what, they get acclaim to this day.
As for GBA, I don't think anyone dismisses it, though again the quality bar was lower than consoles—even for Nintendo.

Not all limitations result in unique expressions of creativity. Look at Metroid 2 for example. They tried to make a fully-featured Metroid game on a 160x144, 10:9 screen. The result is an incredibly cramped, disorienting experience which makes exploration very tedious. There's an argument to be made that the tiny FOV and monochrome screen resulted in a unique horror vibe for the series, but I don't think that's worth the trade-off for what a complete fucking chore that game is to actually play. Many GB games took this path, trying to cram NES-level experiences into a form factor that just couldn't take it.

As an adult I've grown to appreciate gems across the GB/GBC and GBA library, but there is undoubtedly an aspect of them feeling "lesser" to console games.

The sound of the NES, SNES, Mega Drive etc is incredibly despite its limitations. The sound of the GBA is not.

>>11799474 (OP)
Who are you basing this on?

>>11799474 (OP)
for me, the one major issue with them is the tiny, blurry screens. makes playing faster paced games unbearable.
good for puzzle and RPG games though.

>>11799474 (OP) (OP)
for me, the one major issue with them is they have tiny screens with a ton of ghosting. makes playing faster paced games unbearable.
good for puzzle and RPG games though.

>>11800193
recurring thing on this board but also seen it on the broader retro gaming blogosphere

>>11800168
>most companies just cheapened out on it, they had this attitude like "who cares, kids are gonna buy it"
yes. this was especially obvious in the gbc era
every franchise had a gbc game
and they were all terrible (maybe an odd exception here and there)
very few developers were making games tailored to its limitations
or taking advantage of its portability and interconnectivity. the world had moved on

>>11799474 (OP)
so the limitations have to be the current target
they can't be a secondary or tertiary thing that companies just develop shovelware for and hope for the best

>>11799474 (OP)
I think it was because with limited resources, I had to settle for the NES that I already had and therefore the Gameboy was not something I could reasonably own. Sure, I already enjoy Contra, but I had to miss out on Operation C despite its excellence because wages couldn't keep up. There was still a part of me that wishes Operation C would have a (non-Super Gameboy/Gameboy Player) port that took advantage of the tech that was available that I had in the NES. I had to forgo handhelds as a different dimension of games I had no access to, missing out on all the Tiger games, Gameboy, GameGear, and Lynx titles; it wasn't until the TurboExpress and NeoGeo Pocket Color that became the first portables I got that I was able to enjoy some of the games, yet even then the games which appealed to me could be so much more on other systems if allowed.

>>11799493
Cellphones were already somewhat common by the time those handhelds launched

You mean midwits?

>>11799527
what the fuck do you think 8-bit means? the gameboy was absolutely 8-bit.(the atari 2600 was also 8-bit, the bits are in refence to the chip architecture, not anything to do with pixels) its hardware was almost identical to the NES, even, with compromises only to deal with the smaller monochrome display.

>>11802000
cell phones weren't common in the US for another four or five years after the launch of the color. and the dmg in the background dropped in 89, where the only people with cell phones were high-powered execs, and those phones where the size on an NES

>>11799474 (OP)
Gbc doesn’t have a lot of games other than puzzle games in my opinion, they made up for it with their next one though. I missed out on it, didn’t realize it had all that for gba until now

>>11799634
>A games graphical fidelity is a function of its quality relative to its release date
that's retarded. do you literally wait to form your opinion on how good you think a game looks until you find out what year it was released? you're fucking retarded.

>>11804384
If you dont think like I do then all games have bad graphics except Red Dead Redemption 2 because they're all old. Thats retarded. FF6 has good graphics if it was released in 1994, if it was released in 2025 it has bad graphics.

>>11804429
>if you don't hold my retarded view you can only hold this even more retarded view
wow, you're retarded.
do I enjoy looking at it? yes? good graphics.
what year did this game release with these graphics? oh wait, doesn't fucking matter.

>>11804479
If you arent going to be objective then whats there to argue about? You can say any shitty game is beautiful because its your hecking opinion.

>>11804501
hey alright

>>11804429
that's hilarious, ff6 is beautiful to this day, and the pixel remaster has objectively worse graphics despite being released decades later.

Handheld are fun. I can enjoy games that are "weaker" on a technical level than an NES, despite the fact I'm not a big fan of the NES. The original Game Boy has a lot of really cool games. Donkey Kong '94 is such a huge step up over any pre-DKC Donkey Kong, Super Mario Land 2 has so much charm to it, the Wario Land games are great, Link's Awakening, Metroid II, Pokémon Gen I and II, and so many more. I never felt like I was making concessions. It's not like the Game Boy was filled with watered-down arcade game ports from the early 1980s, it wasn't an Ice Climbers machine with stiff controls designed to farm quarters. There were real RPGs, Seiken Densetsu started on the Game Boy. 90s game design shined through.

>>11804552
we arent talking about beauty we are talking about graphical fidelity

>>11799474 (OP)
The developers simply couldn't give their best. When you play cream-of-the-crop arcade games from early 90's, you start noticing how watered down even the home console ports of the time were. Devs simply had to compromise the vision to make things work and very few games came out better for it. And handhelds were even weaker than home consoles, so that meant even more holding back design-wise.
It gets worse the more forward in time you go, lots of GBA games were simply gimped and made by developers who had no interest in squeezing every last bit of power from the tiny handheld with crunchy ass sound. Partly because they knew whatever they made would pale in comparison to PS2 and Xbox games, partly because they simply didn't give a fuck. These games look, sound and feel worse than SNES and Genesis games and try to make up the difference with things like higher color depth, shit that was basically given for free by stronger hardware.

>>11804625
While there are a sizable number of handheld games that are simply a poor man's alternative to a console game, there were plenty of games that were simply games made for a handheld platform. Wario Land 3 is a really good game. Nobody is saying it's inferior to a home console game because there are no Wario Land home console games to compare it to, barring whatever you want to consider the Virtual Boy one. I don't think I've ever heard someone say they wish it was an SNES game or an N64 game or felt that it had concessions.

>>11802000
Yeah, and they played fucking snake or not even that.

>>11804429
FF6 has good graphics even today, so your whole point is wrong and stupid

>>11804580
no, you're talking about that. nobody else gives a fuck about whatever you think that is.

common ross W
https://youtu.be/w025kQRMZwA?t=1m5s

>>11804867
better timestamp
https://youtu.be/w025kQRMZwA?t=1m45s

>>11804859
Why did you reply to me if you didn't want to talk about it?
>>11804854
You couldnt sell FF6 for $70 today strictly because of its graphics. You could in 1994.

>>11804580
what does the phrase "graphical fidelity" mean? all i know is the 16-bit graphics that square was putting out in the 90s is still far superior to any 3Dslop made today.

>>11804898
because I wanted to tell you that you're wrong.
evidently you're stupid too, given that I had to explain this to you.
further, how much you can sell a game for has nothing to do with whether its graphics are good or bad. Plenty of games with bad graphics were and are sold at full price. Plenty of games with good graphics were and are sold for less.

>>11804904
it means whatever he wants it to mean. he knows his argument is retarded and now he's trying to save face with nebulous terms.
saving face on an anonymous imageboard no less. what a fucking retard.

>>11804908
FF6 could sell at full price today with no changes just modern graphics. And when I say sell I mean make real money and be successful. It could not with 16 bit graphics. In 1994 it was cutting edge, in 2025 it is not. Thats the whole point of my original statement that you dont want to talk about.
>>11804904
>>11804909
Google it

>>11804915
good graphics are good regardless of whether they're "cutting edge".

>>11804920
I make the distinction between looking aesthetically pleasing and being technologically impressive because one has a degree of subjectivity and one doesnt.

>>11804915
those two definitions seem to be contradictory. that phrase still seems useless to me because of that.

>>11804929
nobody gives a fuck about any of that. you're just an autistic retard raging out about shit nobody cares about.

>>11799474 (OP)
I’m not gonna bother replying to all the dumb opinions in this thread, but I did want to say gameboy dmg is great and I still play one with a flash cart.
Although a lot of the games don’t hold up I think people saying gameboy is for babies is kind of ridiculous. Gameboy was pretty popular with adult commuters and people who didn’t want to have some big gaming setup.
I even feel like modern games emphasis on fancy graphics and lots of colors is inherently immature and indicates that videogames have still not reached maturity.
Yokoi was a true visionary when he turned a calculator screen and some clever hardware into a cost effective machine capable of running any genre of game up to that point in time. Ultima, Dragon Quest, Super Mario, Contra, Puyo Puyo the list goes on. It even has a good rhythm game, Beatmania GB. Also the port of Mr. Do! is great.
There are only a handful of achievements in the world of videogames that really amaze me, and the Gameboy might be at the top.

>>11804915
>modern graphics
modern "graphics would fucking ruin it. just look at the remake on steam from before the pixel remaster. any changes to the perfection that was the 16-bit graphics on the SNES inevitably make it look like shit.

>>11799474 (OP)
limitation has a limit and that limit is fuckin shit green little pixelated sprites with shitty sound that can only be seen in decent lighting situations.

Game boy advanced is when handheld truly began

>>11804962
funny, then, that the gba only had a three year lifespan, but if you count the color as an upgrade and not an entirely new system, the gameboy was strong for twelve.

>>11804946
You already called me a retard you dont have to keep arguing with me. Stop raging about shit noone cares about.
>>11804958
>modern "graphics would fucking ruin it
No shit. FF6 on the SFC looks good. Modern graphics are more advanced technologically than graphics from 1994. If you polled 1000 people, 99% of them would say some shitty UE game has better graphics than FF6. My whole point is if you factor in the other games that existed when a game came out then you can properly evaluate its graphics.

>>11804982
>if you factor in the other games that existed when a game came out then you can properly evaluate its graphics
retarded.
early psx games were mind-blowing at the time, shit today.
ff6 looked good at the time and still looks good today.
your whole system is stupid as fuck.

>>11805002
>early psx games were mind-blowing at the time, shit today.
>ff6 looked good at the time and still looks good today.
yes which is why I separate looking good from being impressive technologically am I talking to a wall?

>>11805013
technological impressiveness if completely irrelevant. frankly so is looking good, though that is a bonus. the only thing that matters for a game is if it is fun

>>11805013
technological impressiveness is completely irrelevant.
we have now circled back to the fact that you are incapable of forming an opinion on how a game looks without knowing what year it came out, which is stupid as fuck. like, just use your eyes, retard.

>>11800180
Many 16-bit games would use incredibly large sprites, so NES sprites on smaller GB resolutions isn't too different from the home console experience in that regard

>>11805026
>technological impressiveness is completely irrelevant
Its all connected. I can subjectively form an opinion on any game I want while you cant objectively evaluate anything. Thats the difference.

>>11805043
A) who cares?
B) that's still not an objective measure, because it still relies on a subjective valuation. Whether you're saying something looks good "for its time" or in current times, you're still relying on subjectivity to make the call.

>>11800180
The game isn't a chore at all to play. It's incredibly linear and designed for a handheld perfectly.

>>11805105
>metroid
>linear
sounds like it sucks

graphics snobs aren't retro gamers, no exceptions

>>11799493
It's not a new opinion.
>>11799704
An average zoomer is 25 and grew-up with a DS.

>>11805093
>B) that's still not an objective measure, because it still relies on a subjective valuation. Whether you're saying something looks good "for its time" or in current times, you're still relying on subjectivity to make the call.
who cares?

>>11805126
I mean if you don't then you've spent hours sperging out for literally no reason.
by the way, when you try to use someone's own words against them as a retort, you're admitting plain as day that they got to you ;)

>>11805123
I'm 27 and grew up with a game boy, first console was a genesis at age 6, got a DS at 13, I played river rapids on my mom's java phone sometimes. didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 when some chick gave me her old blackberry. I still don't know what generation I belong to

>>11805132
you're a zoomer.

>>11805093
>B) that's still not an objective measure, because it still relies on a subjective valuation. Whether you're saying something looks good "for its time" or in current times, you're still relying on subjectivity to make the call.
My guy I said multiple times that I subjectively evaluate how a game looks. Thats one element to "graphics" and then objectively evaluate the technology, thats another part. You can just tell me, who cares and get the last word if you'd like, im not going to restate my opinion again.
>>11805126
>>11805130
I dont know whats going on here, but I care.

>>11805147
>im not going to restate my opinion again.
thank fucking christ lol

>>11805132
Generational stuff has always been gay to begin with.

>>11805142
A zoomer who used vhs and dialup when they were contemporary, sure. Didn't have an hdtv in the house until 2012

>>11805159
you were born in either 1997 or 1998. you're a zoomer.
just because you grew up poor and didn't have modern gadgets in your house until you were older does not change this fact.

>>11805167
>economical parents resulting in mixed generational experiences
>poor
96 actually, my math was wrong. probably on account of cutting math class to play pokemon silver on my SP

>>11799474 (OP)
I don't know, if I ever meet someone like that I'll ask them

Couldn't be me. I freaking love the GBC and GBA, still play with mine currently and now I'm looking to mod in some new screens to actually see.

>>11799518
I'm afraid this board isn't for you. /v/ is next door

>>11805175
>economical
lol quit being a faggot
you were poor. they just used a euphemism to make you feel better about it

>>11799474 (OP)
Super Gameboy is superior in everyway.

>>11805253
You seem to be projecting childhood frustrations. Feel better soon

>>11801979
turbo express looks so elagant

>>11805397
That image is AI generated.

>>11805404
I don't think it is but the turbo express still looked elegant regardless

>>11805167
>you were born in either 1997 or 1998. you're a zoomer.
nobody uses this definition anymore. Zillenial at most

>>11804684
The games that were made with the understanding of the platform's nature were better off for it, but with all the inferior facsimiles of home console experience that fill out their libraries, it's no wonder handhelds get considerably less attention than their big brothers.

>>11805345
Nah, I didn't grow up poor like you did

>>11805404
this post is AI generated.

>>11805415
>words don't mean what they mean because I said so
he's a zoomer, live with it

>>11805434
I didn't have an SNES, but I had DKC on the GBC and while it may be technically inferior, it was my way of playing it and I had a lot of fun. MegaMan Xtreme 2 was also how I experienced MegaMan X2 (and all the X bosses in the bonus mode). I didn't know for years that nearly all the bosses, stages, and music were from existing games. These were still fine ways for someone to experience them, they weren't bad games. Link's Awakening isn't just a stripped down version of A Link to the Past, Metroid II is its own beast, and I don't think Tetris or Dr. Mario really lost out on much by being on the Game Boy vs the NES. The portability is a hugely appealing factor.

I played and enjoyed a lot of handheld games from gb up to the vita, but I get it. Regardless of the game's quality or technology level, you're still playing with a shitty screen, shitty controller, and shitty speakers - and some of them had no headphone jack or a poor quality one. I still enjoy many of these games but prefer to use an emulator for those reasons.

>>11805451
Needing the latest and greatest all the time is poverty logic

>>11805581
cope. wealthy people always have the latest and greatest.
I guess you wouldn't know.

>>11805590
Highly insecure poverty logic, at that.

>>11805629
highly insecure cope, at that.
if you'd ever had money, or had any friends who had money, you'd know they don't stick with old shit. and why would they?

>please believe that i am rich and have friends
bleak

>>11805397
I love the Express too, it was instrumental in making the roadtrip down to Atlanta pretty easy. Despite its bulk, it is pretty comfortable. I still got the box, but it is wearing out though.

>>11805508
they don't mean that though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zillennials

>>11806786
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Z
>people born around 1997 to 2012
BTFO.

I love a lot of gameboy games. Unfortunately I'm now old and blind and can only play games on big screens.

>>11805537
I still like booting up my sp to play GB/gbc games sometimes, but you're right. Using an emulator is definitely the best option to play these games or at least a super Gameboy 2.

I've never met anyone like that.
Rather, I get amazed when an "underpowered" console manages to have a game that does something I didn't think they could do. I had a Game Gear with Defenders of Oasis when I was a kid. Back then, I was blown away when the bosses in the last dungeon screamed "Oh noooooo!" when killed.
I was shocked that I owned a 16ish bit handheld console in the form of a Turbo Express back then, too.
Years later, I was blown away by Pokemon Gold and Silver having so much added content in it.
And today, I'm shocked not by handheld games but by all the crazy shit people can do with rom hacks. Metroid Subversion is an amazing example of this.

>>11806051
I'm >>11806993
I had one, too. We bought it shortly before leaving Singapore and moving to the US in 1991. It and a bag full of batteries was invaluable during the flight lmao
The Express/GT was my first handheld console and I loved it.

>>11806993
Romhacks can be amazing. Even if they are not well designed, they are a testament to a hackers ability to figure out the inner workings through reverse engineering.

>>11807012
Or if they have gross content. Have you played that Super Princess Peach hack of Mario World? Fat-positive content aside, it's an amazing hack in so many fucking ways. It is one of the best, of not the very best, hacks of SMW I've ever played. I can't recommend it enough.

>>11806921
reminder, he was '96

>>11799634
I think GB/GBC games are cool because they're like games for the NES made by people who learned the lessons from SNES game development in terms of game design.

>>11800168
>As for GBA, I don't think anyone dismisses it, though again the quality bar was lower than consoles—even for Nintendo.
I disagree, the GBA was a second wave of SNES quality 2D games

>>11805123
nintendo is a f'd up brand in that it skips a generation in being good for some reason, ds has a few good games, but gba and 3ds have a lot more for it, idk why but its almost though every other nintendo system is good

>>11799474 (OP)
As a zoomzoom I think Gameboy titles aged far better than most NES ones. I'd take Metroid 2 anyday over the frustration of Metroid 1 as an example.

>>11806968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55u_rgQuk5M

>>11799474 (OP)
>limitations
>underpoweredness
Being creative within the limitations produces gold, but not every developer is capable enough to produce something great within the context of the underpoweredness.

>>11800180
Zero Mission and Fusion (although GBA) were arguably two of the best Metroid games ever though according to who you ask. I would certainly rank them way high up there.

>>11800180
Imagine a handheld that had the same Genesis first model sound chip. That shit would have slapped hard.

>>11807001
I too have fond memories with the Turbo Express, but it was a system that didn't have as severe limitations in comparison to home consoles. I do appreciate the games that were purposely designed with a specific system in mind, and there are games that utilizes the unique aspects of portability or bespoke screens per player, there are games that I think "maybe something more amazing with the same concept" could be made for other systems. I did get an AC adapter with the Express, but when I went on that roadtrip with friends, I think someone had a cigarette lighter adapter to power the portable too.

>>11810293
check it out