>sega launches dreamcast for $200 in fall '99
>"trust us bro, third-party support is coming"
>gets axed in 2001
how the fuck was this acceptable back then?

Sega's console division was dying and this was their final attempt to save themselves. In their haste, they prematurely released a console which was immediately blown out of the water as soon as the competition released their own hardware. It's funny how Sega's tech went out with a whimper, when throughout most of the 90s their arcade hardware was god-tier.

The fuck you mean "acceptable"? As opposed to what?
Should the US government have bailed Sega out or something?

What are you gonna do about it? Boycott Sega's next console?

>>11807280 (OP)
>how the fuck was this acceptable back then?
In 18 months it got more 3rd party support than GameCube in 6 fucking years... and even with that some retards claim GameCube is the best console of its time.

>>11807325
Quality > Quantity, anon

>>11807325
Whats to biatch the GC drives with teh saem sega gaems nao except - some

>>11807280 (OP)
>releases after 2 years from the european and japan version.
>uses different hardware to the original.

>>11807386
The only reason to buy a Gaycube was for a Dreamcast port

>>11807286
>The fuck you mean "acceptable"? As opposed to what?
>Should the US government have bailed Sega out or something?
Microsoft offered to buy Sega numerous times. Sega said no.

Namco offered to buy Sega a few times. Sega said no.

I bought $5000 in Trump coin, now it's worthless. How the fuck is this acceptable?

>>11807492
Gaycube is the worst platform where to play PSO, Anon. The only reason to buy a Gaycube was this Dreamcast port

>>11807386
>muh quality meme
The cube was dogshit outside of three games and almost every N64 to GC sequel sucked ass with the exception of F-Zero GX (made by SEGA) and maybe Smash (I don't give a fuck about it because I'm not a tranny).

N64fags are the most annoying fanbase in the world but at least they actually can back it up with quality titles. Cubekids are simply deranged and delusional.

>>11807280 (OP)
as acceptable as this.

Sega only lasted because they were the only alternative to Nintendo. The moment a third horse entered the race they were through.

>it's another zoomer console warriors thread

>>11807697
Wrong. Sega beat NEC and Nintendo just barely, barely outsold Sega in the US 4th generation console market. What ruined Sega was a combination of bad foresight, bad decisions at every level and the inability to compete with Sony who had too many advantages in hardware production and a more forward thinking approach to console design when it was most critical.

>>11807492
>>11807590
SEGA is for GameCube what Rareware to N64. kek

>>11807285
>In their haste, they prematurely released a console which was immediately blown out of the water as soon as the competition released their own hardware.
Are you talking about the Saturn or the Dreamcast?

>>11807689

>>11807280 (OP)
Pic related lasted 3 years as well
It isnt that bad of a timespan

>>11807768
The Genesis.

How did Nintendo survive the N64 and Gamecube but Sega couldn't survive the Saturn and Dreamcast?

>>11807893
Game Boy, zoomer anon

>>11807325
>In 18 months it got more 3rd party support than GameCube in 6 fucking years
Ok, but most of that support were just arcade ports.

>>11807920
I hate this fucking revisionism of thinking arcade ports had no value. The value was in playing a game in the comfort of your house. The value was maybe experiencing a game for the first time because the cabinet wasn't in your city. The value was perhaps in having a port with extended features.

They're still games. You can have fun with them.

>>11807768
Dreamcast. Saturn was still passable, the Dreamcast was downright outdated by the time the PS2, GC, and XBOX were released. Perhaps it could've stood a chance had it released with specs closer to the Naomi 2, but it didn't. It had some cool exclusive games, like Jet Set/Grind Radio, but at the time it quickly became the also-ran console of the era. I will say that being first to market probably gave them a sales boost (it was the first Sega console I got while it was still current, in no small part because it was released unopposed), but in the long run it was a hindrance.
That said, nowadays you see a lot more Dreamcast appreciation since all the consoles of the time are outdated and people can better appreciate them for their uniquene qualities.

>>11807893
SEGA had shitloads of debt and no pokemon. Nintendo didn't start losing money until the WiiU, always managing to turn a profit even when they were losing. SEGA always somehow managed to overspend to generate losses even when they were "winning."

>>11807928
>The value was perhaps in having a port with extended features
Most arcade ports had none of those, that's the problem. They were games with often limited longevity if you lacked a friend or brother to play with.

>>11807941
>the Dreamcast was downright outdated by the time the PS2, GC, and XBOX were released
That probably wouldn't have mattered. The PS2 was arguably the weakest and it was the best selling console ever. The problem was simply that people were waiting for the PS2. That's it. Devs picked the ps2 to focus on, gamers picked the ps2 to buy, poor SEGA had no chance. They could have spent a fortune to make a powerhouse, used a DVD drive and sold it for a massive loss and people still would have said "Imma gon wait for da pee ess too"

>>11807951
> weakest
*weakest out of the 3 that survived I meant

>>11807941
>>11807951
The Saturn is what killed Sega's console division. It was an expensive blunder because Sega's devs at that time were almost wholly unfamiliar with 3D. They didn't have a good dev support kit until a year into the console's lifespan, they pissed off retailers and third party devs with their surprise launch and other bullshit, the console itself was expensive and then they stopped releasing games for it in the west early on so they could pivot to the Dreamcast.

By the time of the Dreamcast Sega was so strapped for cash that their CEO had to sell his stocks to even get the console out of the door. Third party devs like EA refused to release on Sega's consoles because of what happened with the Saturn and of course by then Sony reigned supreme.

>>11807280 (OP)
>>"trust us bro, third-party support is coming"

Soul Calibur
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Grandia 2
Skies of Arcadia

>>11807956
>Sega's devs at that time were almost wholly unfamiliar with 3D
I doubt that, I mean they had AM2 who had basically been living and breathing the Model 1/2 hardware. I would say the problem was the exact opposite, it's not that they were unfamiliar with 3D at all, they unfortunately were all too familiar with it... the EXPENSIVE kind of 3D. They came from geometry transform engines with lighting and multi-chip polygon and texturing systems. And that meant when it came to designing a 3D chipset they were trying to cost reduce the most expensive way of doing things where Sony/3DFX wound up ruling the world by saying "all you need is a god damn interpolator, the CPU can do the rest."

>>11807325
>>11807386
gaycuck literally aint got games

>>11807819
More like 4. And it got a shit ton of games in the process. Over 1500 games at least.

>>11807758
The only thing outdated about the Dreamcast was the controller. They should have hastily made a new default pack-in controller, like Sony did with the Dual Shock, as soon as they caught wind that all the other consoles would have 2 analog sticks.

>>11807965
Saturn didn't even have UV wrapper. They also wasted a ton of silicon on a chip that only renders flat background layer like snes mode 7. They didn't even try making a 3D console. Just 3D with untextured polygons maybe. Also I don't believe those twin SH2 chips were so cheap, they used much bigger die and silicon than MIPS R3000+GTE. Also having 2 of them means twice the packaging and twice the I/O. Hitachi would have to bleed money if they were to sell them for cheap.

>>11807965
>I doubt that
I read an interview where the guys who developed the Saturn literally said they didn't know how to do 3D and had to learn on the fly when making the console. They eventually got the Virtua Fighter dev to help them with making a proper dev kit. Sega was a fucking mess.

>>11808010
This is my only complaint about the DC. Two analogs would have actually made a world of difference to what kind of games could be made for it

>>11807947
Yeah, that's something that bothered me about straight arcade ports. Like, I'm not going to play Tekken Tag Tournament so much that I'm willing to spend 50 bucks on it, but for 50 cents every now and then? Sure, why not.

>>11807325
>In 18 months it got more 3rd party support than GameCube in 6 fucking years...
Kek. They (You) because it's true

>>11807325
cubelards will never recover.

>>11807325
>GameCube is the best console of its time.
I've never seen anyone say this that wasn't shitposting.

>>11808027
> They also wasted a ton of silicon on a chip that only renders flat background layer like snes mode 7
If you removed VDP2 the Saturn would be absolutely useless at 2D.

Serves them right for not simply porting-over all of those top-tier quality Saturn games they never relesed outside of Japan like Dragon Force 1&2.

>>11807941
The Xbox and GC came out, like, two years later. Of course they were vastly more technically advanced. This is like saying the 3DO was downright outdated at launch because the N64 looked better, or for the matter the N64 was outdated at launch because the Dreamcast looked better.

>>11809260
There were n64 gaems on teh dcheheh

>>11807289
#1, that's terror

>>11807941
>Saturn was still passable
Lmao. The Saturn was built to do 2D games in the 3D era. It was hastily upgraded with a 2nd CPU and still struggled to 3D graphics. PS1 and N64 dominated it.

>>11807836

>>11808010
All the hardware was dated 2001.
The console's appearance and design were already outdated too. The shape of the controller is unpleasant to look at.
But I'll never understand how they managed to fuck up the controller, having only one analog stick, when the playstation's Dual Analog was already a thing.
In addition, the controller's cable that comes out of the bottom gives a bad and outdated impression right away.
Whose fault is it? Obviously, the retarded executives at Sega: old, retarded, stubborn grandpas.

>>11807280 (OP)
It was common, Sega just became another Atari

>>11809561
>when the playstation's Dual Analog was already a thing.

only like a dozen games used the 2nd analog stick. it was a waste of space on the first dual shock. Alien Resurrection used it, but it came out in like 2000, and the modern fps controls freaked people out.

>>11808010
>as soon as they caught wind that all the other consoles would have 2 analog stick
Back in the day I played Quake III and R6 with KB&M, even that Half-Life prototype is compatible with it.

Dreacast didn't need a 2-stick controller

>>11809561
You don't seem to get how Sega operates. They release a basic controller. Then halfway through the consoles life, they release a newer controller with more buttons.

Sega did the same with Genesis and Saturn.


The plan was to sell a newer Dreamcast controller down the line, and make more money.

>>11809672
They did the same with the SG-1000 as well. Never realized how often they pulled that.

>>11809662
Fucking this. They should have just made KB&M the default pack-in controls and they would have won.

>>11809260
The N64 was outdated at launch. The PSX looked better.

>>11809454
Stop spreading such bullshit, the 2nd cpu did not turn it from 2d to 3d. You seem to conceptualize the PSX as the bear minimum for 3d. This is not the case, the PSX was incredibly strong at 3d. Its not that the Saturn was 2d and then had to be upgraded, rather it was 3d, but not on the insane level of the PSX, which was far better than expected.

>>11809678
I’d say overall PSX looked better, but the best looking games on N64 looked better than the best on PSX

>>11809685
You aren't going to win this argument. The lead designer of the Sega Saturn said in an interview they developed the Saturn for 2D games.

They didn't think 3D games would reach home consoles that generation. And only Sega's arcade department had any training in 3D game development. No one in the console department knew how to make 3D games.

Then Sony unveiled the PS1 and Sega's console department went into panic mode. The Saturn wasn't powerful enough to handle 3D games. So they added a 2nd CPU chip last minute to boost its power. This came Aa the cost of making the Saturn game development significantly more difficult and time consuming for Game Studios.

This is one of the major reasons Western Studios ditched the Sega Saturn and went to Playstation.

>>11809770
I don't care what he said, its nonsense. The machine was clearly intended for 3d before adding that second sh2. Like, what purpose would the SCU DSP server if not for 3D.

>>11809770
>It is a common misconception that the Sega Saturn was developed to be a 2D games machine. While it is certainly true that it handles 2D graphics better than much of its competition, every Sega game demonstrated on the hardware during its development - even in Japan where the 3D craze was not as significant - utilised real-time 3D graphics, and were pushed as selling points of the system.

>>11807325
Foppy boppy

It's actually pretty impressive how many great games there are on the DC despite how short its production run was, grabbing one off ebay in 2003 was one of the best decisions I ever made.

>>11809678
>>11809687
At the time the 64's texture filtering was considered really impressive, but to modern eyes it looks like total shit while PSX's unfiltered textures aged quite well, people even like the wobbly geometry for some reason.

>>11809801
>Hideki Sato: To be honest, in the beginning, I wasn’t thinking of 3D capabilities for the Saturn at all. This was partially my fault, but additionally, the game developers at Sega at the time had basically no knowledge of 3D game development. They had all been raised in the environment of 2D sprites and backgrounds, and the only developers who had any real experience with 3D were Yu Suzuki and AM2 with the Virtua series. Actually, all of the other developers wanted to continue developing using the same system they were used to. If you looked at every single Sega employee within the home console division, there were practically no programmers or designers who had any knowledge of polygon technology.

>I had taken a look at Sega’s development teams at the time and concluded, “It’s going to be impossible for them to do 3D games.” I mean, we had over 1,000 developers working in the development division at Sega then. The Saturn was going to be released in 1994, but software development for it had to begin in 1993—and in some cases even in 1992. With all that in mind, I concluded that there was no way Sega’s development assets would be able to do 3D.

>With all the CPUs in the Saturn, only a tiny fraction of developers at Sega were able to make sense of them all and actually put them to use. For third parties… well, there was no way. At a later point, AM2 was able to rush and put together the SGL (Sega Graphics Library), but from today’s perspective, that could hardly be called an SDK (software development kit). It probably took third parties a full week just to get something displayed on the Saturn.

>Sato: I’m not sure if you call it a memory, but a regret I have is not going with one of our options to use the arcade system Model 1 as the base for the Saturn. As I mentioned, I couldn’t choose that option due to the situation with the development teams at the time. However, I can’t help but think it would have been better to just force our way ahead.

>>11807280 (OP)
>how the fuck was this acceptable
Considering that they ceased production and sold the company not long after I'm assuming people didn't accept it.

It's so funny to me how like half of every thread posted to this board devolves into Saturn arguments without fail

>>11809812
> but to modern eyes it looks like total shit
Modern graphics are Vaseline smeared too. Most people seem to love Vaseline smears.

>>11809828
If it was every thread would the Saturn have sold more?

>>11807325
Nintendo did something Sega was incapable of, and that was keeping the little audience that was interested in their stuff as happy as possible. Why do you think they survived the Wii U and made the comeback of the century?
Also handhelds

>>11807501
Yes, in the 2010s and this decade, not in the 1990s/2000s, that was Nintendo they wanted to buy back then, and they were laughed out of the room because of it.
>>11807943
They lost money on the Virtual Boy.
>>11809685
Yes, it did, Sega even said so themselves as quads = sprites.

>>11809912
Nintendo lost money on the virtual boy but got bailed out by Pokémon and the N64.

>>11809915
>and the N64.
The N64 was an abject failure

>>11809915
Rare, the N64 would've been a loss without Rare, and the N64 was so Rare dependent that their investors forced them to sell Rare off to Microsoft just so they can focus on the Japanese market.

And then The Pokémon Company was founded and anything that wasn't hardware licensing became reserved to The Pokémon Company, forcing Nintendo to stay in the 6th Generation until 2012 (2019/2021 counting the 3DS).

>>11809930
It made money, especially in 1996 before everyone knew how limited the support was going to be.
>>11809932
So? What does any of that have to do with Nintendo making a profit in 1996.

>>11809912
>not in the 1990s/2000s
Microsoft made offers to buy both Nintendo and Sega. Both refused.

But Sega kept their options open and allowed Microsoft make the SDK for the Dreamcast. Thus preserving a working relationship with Microsoft.

>>11809952
Yes, at different times.

>>11809961
No. Microsoft considered buy Sega in the 1990s. Then again in the 2000s. Then again in 2020. Each time it through for various reasons.

>>11809961
No. Microsoft considering buying Sega in the 1990s. Then again in the 2000s. Then again in 2020. Each time it fell through due to various reasons.

Sonic Adventure 2 still looks good 25 years later

>>11809672
what are the chances that the 2nd Dreamcast controller was the Xbox controller?

>>11809982
Most of Dreamcast's planned ideas made their way to Xbox or Xbox 360

>DVD
Xbox
>HDD
Xbox
>Game Downloads to HDD
Xbox 360 Games on Demand
>Online Multiplayer
Xbox Live
>DLC
Xbox Live
>MP3 playback
Xbox
>Dreamcast 16MB of RAM
Xbox 64MB of RAM

>>11809835

>>11809979
No, that was Nintendo, they only did that with Sega in the 2010s and recently.

And if they did end up buying Sega all Microsoft would get is Sega themselves, Atlus and Rovio, everything else such as Sammy and everything not related to video games would be sold off by piece meal to other companies.

>>11810059
You are a fool. Microsoft has a wishlist of game companies they want to acquire. Sega is one of them. It's been that way for a long time. Sega has continually refused.

>>11810179
Yes, recently.
They wanted Nintendo for alot longer but their successes keep them profitable enough to avoid a buyout.

>>11810059
>they only did that with Sega in the 2010s and recently.
Microsoft approached Sega about a merger in 2000/2001.

>>11810196
That was Nintendo, Sega was in 2017.

>>11810207
No.
>Though Okawa (May 19, 1926 – March 16, 2001) had briefly talked with Microsoft about the possibility of having Sega merge with their gaming division before his death, nothing had come of those talks.
>Though brief discussions continued on with former interests Microsoft, Bandai and even Electronic Arts, on February 19, 2003, Sega announced to the world their impending merger with Sammy Corp., who specialized in Pachinko machines.
Don't fucking post again you shitter.

>>11810183
>>11810207
Sorry but your information is wrong. Microsoft tried to acquire Sega twice in the 2000s. Sega rejected both times. For a Sega fan, you are really not well informed. You bring shame to the Sega Fandom.

>>11810215
>Sega announced to the world their impending merger with Sammy Corp., who specialized in Pachinko machines.
Different anon here. I honestly cannot freaking believe Sega chose Sammy. What an awful choice. Sega could have gotten so much more money from Microsoft. Sammy specializes in Japanese slot machines! Their business doesn't mix well with Sega. Even Namco or Bandai would have been better.

>>11810224
Maybe that's why Sega chose them, that possibly Sammy would just front money and let Sega handle everything whereas an established software company like Microsoft, Namco or Bandai would meddle too much.

>>11810231
Yeah but with a company like Microsoft, Sega would have had massive amounts of money to resurrect their console division and make a comeback. Imagine the Sega Xbox. All of Sega's characters and franchises exclusive to Xbox, but with Microsoft paying all the bills. Not even Sony could bully Sega anymore!

Are Sega Executives so full of Japanese pride that they would rather let their company fall to dust than take American money and make a huge comeback? What a pity.

>>11810215
>>11810218
>>11810224
>>11810231
>The X68K Schizo is here.
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT!

Microsoft trying to buy Sega started in 2017, not 1999-2001, that was Nintendo they were trying to buy back then.

>>11810242
Read >>11810243
Also... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlaBnEypz24

>>11807280 (OP)
Piracy killed the Dreamcast very early on back in the summer of 2000. Which scared away third party developers.

>>11810269
Thats not the main thing that killed it, lack of DVD support is what killed the Dreamcast.

>>11810243
We have links and news articles from years ago reporting on it. You've already lost this argument. It's over. Move on.

>>11810275
No you don't X68K Schizo, what you're posting is fan fiction.

>>11810280
>fan fiction.
Wall Street Journal

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1046381423691854663

>>11810294
Says nothing of the sort X68K Schizo, in fact this article is about farmers participating in a harvest festival.

You have been defeated once again.

>>11807760
>sega makes an entry in one of nintendo's flagship series'
>its the best one
>nintendo immediately abandons the series for 2 decades

Sonic Mania for Sega Dreamcast port is almost complete

>>11810294
Interesting article. Much appreciated. So Microsoft tried to buy Sega in the 1990s, 2000s, and 2010s, and 2020s. It's once a decade. Considering now that Sega is struggling in the modern day, Sega really should have accepted.

>>11807286
Yes.

>>11811039
Please stop lying X68K Schizo, the link is unrelated farming stuff.

Why the fuck are you replying to your own fucking fairy tails?

>>11811071
>Please stop lying X68K Schizo, the link is unrelated farming stuff.
Why are you acting stupid? Please stop.

>>11811082
>Posting a photoshopped image.
Shut the fuck up X68K Schizo, you have already been debunked.

>>11811117
I'm not playing this game with you, and you are ruining the thread.

>>11807286
Yes

>>11807280 (OP)
It wasn't acceptable. The problem was that Sega Japan ruined their company's reputation with the horrible Sega Saturn and Sega 32x. If Sega Japan didn't force those consoles on the rest of the world, then the Dreamcast would have sold better and had more developer interest.

>>11811506
32X was 100% Sega of America's idea, all Saturn needed was to use triangles instead of Quads, 2MB of SDRam instead of the split DRam and SDRam layout of 1MB each, audio compressing support, FM that doesn't eat up ADPCM channels/having the FM bank be separate from the ADPCM bank), a 16MHz 68020 for sound and alot more Sonic, namely...

>No SVP and no 32X, go straight to Saturn instead.
>Keep the Game Gear running but have a link cable to allow the Game Gear and Saturn to link up for new features (similar to what Nintendo will do with the GameCube and GBA years later).
>Having Sonic 3 be a Saturn launch title (avoiding the Genesis all together) in November of 1994 and saying no to the McDonalds deal, resulting in Sonic 3 being split into 2 games.
>Sonic Chaotix (Knuckles Chaotix, but with Sonic and Tails being playable and Sonic being the main character).
>Have Sonic be a unlockable character in Daytona USA and it's updated releases.
>Sonic 3D Blast not touching the Genesis and being a proper 3D game rather then a prerendered isometric game, also containing/using Jun Senoue and Tatsuyuki Maeda's sound track.
>Sonic X-Tream actually seeing a release due to the Saturn using triangles instead of quads.
>Vitura Sonic Drift (or how to make Sonic Drift as good as Daytona USA).
>Sonic into Dreams
>Heaver push for the analog controller, making games that require it.
>Heaver push for the ram explanation packs.
>Sonic CD Deluxe, with both Japanese and US sound tracks... on separate discs.
>Sonic The Fighters port, but with more content.
>Sonic Jam with the primary Game Gear/Master System games (Sonic 1, 2 Chaos and Triple Trouble) replacing Sonic 3 as that was a launch game for the Saturn.
>Sonic R without tank controls.
>Sonic Rangers.
>Sonic Adventure for Saturn, 2-3 discs, requires the 4MB ram expansion pack.
>Wait until 2001 for the Dreamcast, allowing for DVD support, more ram and a more powerful chip set.

Thats how you will save the Saturn.

no idea where to ask but would a regular sega genesis cart dust cover work for zero tolerance?
i know it works for EA tall games but, i dont have any to test for ZT

>>11811870
>Having Sonic 3 be a Saturn launch title
>Sonic 3D Blast not touching the Genesis
Thankfully such a timeline never happened. These games had such incredible music on the genesis, it would be a crime against humanity to wish for any other timelime.

>>11812049
They needed to be on Saturn if Saturn wanted to be a success.

>>11807285
They died because they put out too many consoles in too short of a time and had internal conflict within their company with the American and Japanese branches. Then there was the whole Shenmue debacle that assured the demise of the Dreamcast despite the fact that I liked the game and most consider it to be a great game for the system. It cost too much to make at the time and Sega just didn't have enough money to burn on such a project.

Contrary to what you said Dreamcast actually sold very well for its time. It likely could have kept selling well even with PS2's release. Its even highly likely it would have outsold the Gamecube and Xbox had Sega had the funds to continue on with the Dreamcast. The DC sold nearly 10 million units lets not forget. For a console that failed after just two years, for that time period that is actually incredibly good sales.

I'd even bet money in an alternate universe where Sega did have money to continue on with the DC they surely would have outsold the GC but I won't be delusional to think anything that gen was outselling PS2. GTA3 also was supposed to be on the DC. So its easy to think they could have beaten Nintendo this gen had they got GTA3 for the system. They probably would have had to put out a second edition controller eventually though that allowed for camera movement with a second analog stick. I could imagine a scenario where the Xbox fails spectacularly and then MS decides to team up with Sega (probably also tries to do a takeover of some sort but that is for another post) probably for the following gen to take on Sony. Giving Sega funds for even better online infastructure and shit.

So we would have gotten a less spectacular version of MS teaming up with Sega or possibly hoping to outright acquire them in full during the seventh gen. Sega would have a much stronger presence today and DC is much more fondly remembered today as an all time classic console that had more quality games and more overall.

>>11812079
Sega did had a more powerful console to compete against the GameCube and XBox once those 2 showed up, it's just that Sega didn't have the money to fund it so they went 3rd Party instead.

>>11810274
Nope, piracy killed the Dreamcast. DVD support doesn't make a console sale. Wii is proof that you don't need to play DVD, CD or Blu-Ray to sell consoles.

i bought a chink clone of the GDEMU. what am i in for?

>>11812338
GameCube sold as little as it did due to lack of DVD support.
Plus DVD support mattered alot more back in 1999-2001 then it did in 2006 where everyone jumped ship to streaming by then.

>>11807280 (OP)
It wasn't. People were PISSED.

>>11810179
It's sad. Imagine what we could have if sega stopped with the sudoku honor shit. Western focused sega would be unstoppable like the genesis.

>>11812569
Other way around, a Western focused Sega would be just as bad as modern Sony where all they make is 120 hour movies with only 1 hour of game play spliced up in the movie.

You thought Ape Escape and PaRappa the Rapper were treated like shit a American led Sega would treat Sonic even worse.

Also Bandai Namco (because Banpresto) would've bought the rights to Puyo Puyo instead of Sega (while D4 still owns the rest of Compile's IPs).

>>11812608
Wrong. Sega was at its peak when it focused on the western market then died when it tried to focus on japan. If microsoft bought sega we would had a new sega golden age from 2001 to 2012 at the very least just like the golden age of the genesis.

It's sad sega killed itself out of stupid nationalistic pride instead of focusing on the western market where they were loved. We could have had peak sega along american game companies being relevant again. Instead we now have a dead industry as a result of japanese monopoly

>>11812608
gaming as a whole is just fucked. the western market is hyperfocused on trying to be "interactive gaming experiences" and the eastern market is just gachagachagacha. for every yoko taro, miyazaki, or kojimbo theres a million gachaslop coomfests with negative gameplay other than spending money
> a American led Sega would treat Sonic even worse.
id rather have sonic die for good than be turned into star wars which is whats happening now

>>11807325
>cant enter a single unrelated thread without mentioning nintendo

why are they all so insecure?

>>11812827
100% fake, Sega was at it's peek when Sonic was their main focus, once their main focus moved to Virtua Fighter and Sakura Wars thats where Sega fell apart.

It's better for Sega to focus on Yakuza then it is to have Sega be another Naughty Dog or Sucker Punch.
>>11812832
No, we have a almost dead industry thats on the verge of crashing as a result of a AMERICAN monopoly, Nintendo is the only Japanese company left since...

>Capcom and Konami barely do anything anymore (Capcom doing a little more).
>Bandai Namco became a Nintendo subcontractor.
>Koei Tecmo became became reserved on 3 IPs, those being Nobunaga, Warriors (which may or may not involve Nintendo's Zelda) and Atelier.
>>11812905
You forgot Yoshiaki Koizumi, and it's "for every gachaslop coomfests with negative gameplay other than spending money (which are already on their death bed thanks to the Switch 2) theres a million Yoshiaki Koizumis.", not the other way around.

Sonic is not turning into Star Wars, the IP is still about Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, not some retarded human ugly lesbian bimbo.
Also Jim Carrey made those movies worth watching.

>>11813197
I agree sega peaked in the western market with sonic. There would have been a new peak if they were owned by microsoft because they would have focused on the west. What killed them was trying to be successful in japan with the flopurn

>>11813206
Microsoft would've only made things worse, look at Activision Blizzard, all they did with them was push COD, Overwatch and ignore everything else that isn't Tony Hawk (and thats only because Tony Hawk threated to sued Microsoft if he didn't get new games from them), If you thought Crash and Spyro were ignored before the Microsoft buyout at lease we got remakes of the original trilogies of those games and Crash 4 before the Microsoft buyout happened.

If Microsoft did buy Sega (and only Sega, Atlus and Rovio since Sammy isn't part of this deal and that Sammy would be selling the non gaming companies to other companies) it would strictly be for some western produced PC titles and Rovio while the Japanese side of Sega gets sold off to another Japanese company (say Bandai Namco just so they can do more Nintendo contract work) and Atlus gets sold off to Sony.

>ctrl + f "fifa"
>0 results
You have no idea of videogames /vr/

>>11812608
>>11811870
Why do you keep bashing Western Countries when Sega has only ever sold well in Western countries? The West loves Sega more than Japan does. They bought the most Sega consoles and Sega arcade cabinet. Japan didn't.

Japan loved Nintendo and Sony the most. Sega has never done well in Japan. It's their worst market.

>>11813273
Neither do you. ISS/PES was the footy dominator of the era.

>>11813575
Saturn says hi.

>>11807280 (OP)
wanted to release next-gen console ahead of everyone else.

all they had to do was release a more powerful $300 console with dual analog sticks. Windows CE made it so easy to make games for DC compare to PS2.

>>11813828
>Windows CE made it so easy to make games for DC compare to PS2.
At the expense of game running like absolute shit, Sega Rally 2 being the perfect example of it.

>>11807492
I think you meant this one.

>>11813820
>Saturn says hi.
Saturn didn't do well in Japan. Why do people keep saying this? I mean Saturn sold what....5 million?

PS1 sold 22 million.
SNES sold 18 million.

>>11812392
>2006 where everyone jumped ship to streaming by then.
way to prove that you weren't alive in 2006, zoomie

>>11814419
YouTube started in 2005 and was a smash hit from the start.

>>11813584
No, FIFA was the top soccer game.

>>11814439
>YouTube started in 2005 and was a smash hit from the start.
It was only a smash hit because they allowed embedding of YouTube videos. Other video sites at the time didn't have that feature. So they lost.

>>11812079
At that point microsoft had no reason to team up with sega again in that way. Xbox was already a thing.
You have to understand, that while console companies are focused on controlling space in that market, Microsoft has always been about an entirely different game. MS wants control of the means to access things(gateways), and the standards by which things are done. For them, hardware is like, a pretty exterior to mask the shit they're actually trying to foist on you.
Once they already implimented their own approach, they had no reason to play ball with other companies like sega. They only became resource farms to be taken control of and exploited, if/when possible.

>>11807280 (OP)
It wasn't acceptable with this, and it certainly wasn't acceptable the way they bungled the Saturn in 1996.

>>11809979
>Then again in 2020.
Never happened.

>>11810179
>>11810183
You're a liar.

>>11814210
>Why do people keep saying this?
Saturn had a two year head-start beginning in 1994.

>>11814505
cope zoomoid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PlayStation_2_video_games
FIFA was a laughingstock until the 7th gen in which Konami fumbled the transition to the new gen

>>11812392
Gamecube actually had DVD support via the Panasonic Gamecube, it didn't sell well. Thus proving that DVD players aren't as important as the console itself. Nice try.

>>11815383
The Panasonic Q costed $398, it was cheaper to but a GameCube and a DVD player separately, thats the reason why the Panasonic Q bombed.

DVD players back in 2001 were extremely important.

>>11814590
There's absolutely no way that list is accurate. I assume games are missing simply because there's no accurate sales data for all regions, but suggesting that no FIFA game on the PS2 passed the 1m mark is absolutely fantastical stuff. The PS2 versions of FIFA 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 all achieved Double Platinum status in the UK alone, which means over 600k copies sold. In a single country.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090520070249/http://www.elspa.com/?i=3945

So to suggest that no FIFA game broke the 1m mark, you have to believe that they didn't even manage 400k in the entire rest of the world, which is clearly bullshit. Digging further, EA announced that even the World Cup 2002 game, which wasn't a mainline FIFA game and had far less teams and features, had sold 3.5m copies by October of that year. Which was only 500k copies less than Madden 2002 - a game which is number 54 on that list, yet somehow World Cup 2002 isn't on there at all. I guess everybody who bought it must have grabbed the GameCube version, right?

Nobody's disputing that PES was the better game, but it was always the case back then that it was the underdog and retarded normalfags bought FIFA anyway. That Wikipedia article is absolute horse shit.

>>11815459
>The PS2 versions of FIFA 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 all achieved Double Platinum status in the UK alone, which means over 600k copies sold. In a single country.
I can believe that FIFA did well in the UK because PES lacked Premier League licensing, but in my country (Spain) no one played Fifa. NO ONE. Everyone was crazy about PES. Even if you think FIFA sold more, that could also be applied to PES sales. PES was an absolute system-seller in continental Europe.

>>11815471
With respect, I have zero interest in your anecdotes and your post adds nothing except standard upset ESL rambling. PES and PES vs FIFA is completely irrelevant to whether FIFA games belong on that sales list and I have no interest in discussing it further. If you want to contribute something useful, try explaining the Madden 2002 vs World Cup 2002 discrepancy. Some things to keep in mind:

1) Madden 2002 came on in August 2001 on 8 different platforms.
2) World Cup 2002 came out in April 2002 on 5 different platforms.
3) The additional platforms for Madden were N64, GBA and GBC.
4) Coming out 8 months earlier should mean more Madden 2002 sales were on old-gen platforms, even before accounting for the additional versions.
5) EA's data from October 2002 puts Madden 2002 sales at 4m and World Cup 2002 sales at 3.5m.
6) The PS2 version of Madden 2002 makes #54 on the all-time PS2 sales chart, whilst World Cup 2002 fails to make the top 164.

I'm open to well-reasoned arguments as to how Wikipedia's data can be accurate when considering these facts.

>>11815498
PES was the 6th gen king, with all due respect. People still reminisce those games, they mod them today, they remember the meme players, they still say they were the best football games ever made. It was a cultural phenomena. No one can remember anything about 6th gen era FIFA. Even the 5th gen FIFAs are more remembered than the 6th entries. It wasn't just my anecdotal experience, it was the anecdotal experience of millions. Your autismo won't change any of that a single bit.

>>11815419
Ha...I would have bought it at that price. Looks more feature-rich than the PS2. But fact of the matter is, people preferred the regular Gamecube over a DVD version.

>>11812914
I know, right? Segafags should hate Sony if anyone.

>>11815668
No they didn't.

>>11807325
KEK

>>11815419
>The Panasonic Q costed $398
>it was cheaper to but a GameCube and a DVD player separately
With that amount you could afford an OG Xbox with the DVD remote, Halo CE (Included with the console) and the dvd set of buffy the vampire slayer.

Almost $400 for a gamecube with a dvd player, no games, no HDD, no memory card, no game? Get the fuck out of my face man.

>>11815383
>Thus proving that DVD players aren't as important as the console itself
Is this sorry ass tendie admitting that GameCube is steamed garbage? 3rd place and it sold twice as Dreamcast did in 18months but in 6 fucking years. Shut the fuck up and sit down, little dude.

>>11807634
Based and truthpilled

>>11807634
>>11816052
What you just said is 100% fake.

>you see, all I care about is making sure you stop liking something that you like because I dont like the thing you like for no reason!

>>11815935
Yes they did. That's why Gamecubes sold more than the Panasonic Gamecube.

>>11816049
20 million+ consoles sold wasn't that bad and then the Wii's success(without DVD/Blu-Ray support) also proves you don't need it for the consoles to sale. Dreamcast underperformed because of piracy. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.

>>11816401
No, they didn't, The Q sold less because it was cheaper to buy a GameCube and DVD player separately, the the Q cost $100 dollars less it would've sold like hot cakes.

You do need DVD playback to sell, but by 2006 that got replaced with video streaming.

Stop being a retarded zoomer.

All of you are wrong. You don't need DVD playback for a console to succeed.All you need is a high capacity storage medium. It could be cartridges, CDs, DVDs, BDs, etc. It changes all the time. These days it's SD cards.


Furthermore even back in the early 2000s you don't need DVDs specifically. The Sega Dreamcast used 1GB discs made by Yamaha.

Nintendo Gamecube used Mini-DVDs made by Panasonic. They specifically did this because they didn't want to pay Sony any royalty fees for using regular DVDs. Sony partially owned the rights to DVDs, but not to Mini-DVDs. Thus Nintendo did not pay a dime to Sony.

Xbox used DVDs, but avoided paying Sony anything due to a legal loophole. Xbox was not classified as a DVD playback device because Microsoft sold the DVD remote seperately. This remote was required for DVD playback. Thus they avoided paying Sony anything.


Any console manufacturer can custom make a disc or cartridge format for their needs.

>>11816495
Yes, you do, DVDs had that high capacity storage medium.... For 1999-2001, and during 1999-2001 you needed DVD support just to survive, Dreamcast lacked this and Sega became 3rd Party because it it.

By 2005/6 4.7GB wasn't enough, but Wii could play DVDs though homebrew and HD didn't take off until 2008 so Wii had wiggle room.

GameCube lacked this and they're now 2 generations behind because of it, only surviving because they're the only company left still producing actual games.

XBox supports it, and they survived, but are heading into glorified Steam Deck territory just to survive.

PS2 supports it, and they're doing... "Alright", not as good as they once were but PS6 is a thing, Sony Japan took back some of PlayStation and are making a 3rd PSP just to compete against the Switch 2.

Sony can do much better.

>>11807280 (OP)
Before the Wii, Nintendo was still the Famicom company. Super Famicom did okay, but not as well as the Famicom, particularly in the US where the Sega Mega Drive turned Sega into a household name by selling almost as many units as the Super Famicom. This was a major hit to Nintendo, as in the previous generation there were no major competitors to the NES. By 1994, Sega had captured 42% of entire gaming market even though Nintendo sold more consoles because the Mega Drive had something like 2x the software sales per individual console owner, and because they supported multiple consoles and the arcade as well. This success continued in Japan with the Sega Saturn, which likewise sold more games per gamer than any console in Japanese history.

Right up until the company exited hardware, it was hard to imagine Sega going away as a gaming company because Nintendo was in the middle of spending 15 years going full retard. The company only survived the 90s because SNES games kept selling well into 1997 and hardcore Nintendo fans in America saved the N64 from being a complete flop by buying whatever massively overhyped garbage game Nintendo Power would hype up every 6 months. Those hype-cycle games and their sales in America represent like 90% of the software ever sold on the console.

Have no doubt whatsoever, no one wanted to see Sega die but hardcore brainwashed Nintendo manchildren, and the company would have absolutely destroyed Nintendo with the Saturn if the Sony Playstation didn't annihilate the N64 AND Saturn. The 2 year head start and N64 being just as difficult to make games for would have been all Saturn needed to win, and if the Saturn lived just 2 years longer, we would have got a Sega console in 2001 instead of 1998, which would have driven the knife in the flopcube.

Sega of America being petulant retards and the Sony Playstation being stupidly cheap 3D hardware in 1994 killed the company, it just took the dreamcast to run them out of money.

>>11816550
PC Engine, not Mega Drive.

As the Mega Drive only did 3.65 million units in Japan, and even the PC Engine floundered in it's later years due to NEC over charging for the Duo systems and not bothering giving needed upgrade to the PC Engine hardware (nothing in the vains of the Super Grafix but rather things like a built in multitap, 128KB of built in storage, S-Video and RGBS out of the box, 2-4X CD drive support (the original CD Interface Unit even supported faster drives as a form of future proofing which NEC never bothered with), built in Arcade Card, ect.) which allowed the Super Famicom to gain it's footing.

But once the PS1 showed up it took until the Nintendo Switch to have Nintendo get back it's market share, not from Sony (as Microsoft is a joke in Japan) who already lost the Japanese market by 2012 and moved PlayStation to California in 2016 as a result but rather mobile and Japan never looked back since 2017, so much so that Sony moved some of PlayStation back to Japan which resulted in a 3rd PSP to compete against the Switch 2 Nintendo controls that much of Japan's market share.

Nothing Nintendo Power pushed was garbage as those flash carts were Japan only, plus Super Mario Bros DX was a proper rom release interannually.

Super Famicom wise Nintendo Power (besides rereleases) was mostly just puzzle game, Picross (8 of them, 10 counting 3rd party releases) and text adventures.

Game Boy Nintendo Power originals were just Super Mario Bros DX and Balloon Kid DX.

Rare saved the N64, so much so that their investors forced Nintendo to sell Rare off to Microsoft just to focus on the Japanese market, this resulted in Nintendo being 2 generations left behind.

The lack of Sonic, the split DRam and SDRam set up of the Saturn and the use of quads instead of tris is what killed the Saturn, it was even said that in Japan the only thing that people were buying for the Saturn was Virura Fighter and Sakura Wars as the PS1 was otherwise Japan's main focus.

>>11813828
>dual analog sticks
The vast majority of 6th gen games don't even use the right stick

>>11816571
The vast majority of 7th, 8th, and 9th gen games don't even analog triggers either, which is why Nintendo doesn't use them in their controllers.

>>11816568
PS1 killed everything everywhere, and overseas was always the primary money maker for hardware sales. I wasn't talking about the pitiful Mega Drive sales in Japan, where it is seen as a pre-Saturn arcade port machine by a gaming public that largely ignored it when it was new. I was talking about the 18 million Sega Genesis sold in America alone, a region where the SNES sold 20 million units. That's the closest anyone other than Sony has ever come to outselling Nintendo globally, and it was entirely US sales doing it. This is the reason Sega of America was given so much leeway to be complete idiots pushing garbage hardware and garbage games that never released like Sonic Xtreme.

Despite the PS1 outselling it massively, the Saturn was still a hit in Japan. It's extremely easy to find consoles and games for it in any Japanese game store because it was Sega's best selling domestic console. Sonic was never the system mover in Japan. Sega of Japan only put so much faith in Sonic because Sonic 1's release cycle and Sonic 2's release cycle were the only times Genesis straight up outsold the NES/SNES in America. Even with no Sonic game, all the Saturn really needed was the PS1 and 32X to not exist. 32X's lack of support really hurt the companies image in America, it was a complete joke and you were seen as gullible if you actually bought it. A 1995 US release for Saturn with no PS1 on the market would have changed everything. Remember, PS1/Saturn BOTH had a no games reputation in the US for years, and SNES/Genesis software outsold PS1/Saturn/N64 games until 1997.

The difficult coding environment on Saturn is just a cope that I wouldn't be surprised if Sega themselves started saying. Playstation did have really good C libraries and an extremely low license price, but no C libraries was not a dealbreaker when 98% of 16-bit console games the year prior were coded in full assembly. Saturn didn't need Sonic. It needed RE2 and Tomb Raider 2. And no FF7/Crash/Spyro.

>>11816495
> They specifically did this because they didn't want to pay Sony any royalty fees for using regular DVDs
Pretty sure it was a design choice, and not related to royalty fees. The physical size of a disk is not going to have any effect on technology patents.

>>11816605
>Pretty sure it was a design choice, and not related to royalty fees
>pretty sure
And this is the part where you are wrong.

>>11816607
Go find some evidence that disc diameter would have anything to do with licensing the technology, which is same regardless of disc diameter.

>>11816605
Never underestimate the unfair advantages Sony had over Sega and Nintendo in the 90s based on their size and diversity as a technology company.
They were able to bring inaccurate 3D hardware to the market for cheaper than any other company in 1994 because they just re-used old custom designed 3D video title editing hardware they sold in the late 80s. Their experience in this field was how they knew they could get away with the wobbly 3D, because it doesn't show in screenshots/stills at all.
DVD is a similar case. Sony's role in developing the DVD format allowed them to ensure the PS2 was the first DVD player released in the United States for under $1000. That's all it really needed to dominate that generation, DVD was the hot new technology in 2000, and PS2 was the only way to have cheap access to it.

>>11816607
What exact licensing are we even talking about?

There are license costs for DVD video playback, which has its own DRM and shit.
Which is what the Xbox and Gamecube doesn't come with.
Those have nothing to do with the disc format.

>>11816604
Saturn badly needed Sonic, all the west saw in Sega by that point was Sonic, in short, read >>11811870

>>11816627
It reads like a bunch of crap someone who wasn't there or doesn't remember what was going on wrote. There are a bunch of popular misconceptions in there too like that there are problems with Daytona USA as a launch title. Generally, most of those arguments ignore the actual context of the mid-90s when no one was sure what the "future of gaming" was between 1993-1996. Noone had a good idea what a good texture mapped fully 3D game looked like until Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Quake and Mario 64. The only vaguely 3D games with a good reputation before that were Doom and Wolf3D, the ENTIRE INDUSTRY thought photo-realistic 2D textures/video was the future during the development of the Saturn, and the only thing that KINDA changed their mind was Doom and Sega arcade games, mainly Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA.

>Delay Sonic 3 so that it's a launch title for Saturn?
HOW? Sonic Team stays in America for 2 more years? If that happens there is no Nights or Nights Engine. Genesis doesn't have a flagship title for Christmas that year. Sega is dead by 1996.
>Put Sonic in Daytona USA
Daytona USA is the only reason anyone bought a Saturn before 1995, it's a complete myth that it's a bad game or a bad port, and serious saturn heads think launch Daytona is the best port it ever got.
>Sonic 3D blast as a real 3D game
Sonic 3D blast was nothing but an experiment by Traveler's Tales and Traveler's Tales was one of the dedicated "please keep people buying the Genesis until Saturn is ready" developer. No Sonic 3D Blast/Toy Story/Mickey on late Genesis = no sales in 1995-96 = Sega dying earlier.
>Sonic X-treme could have saved the system
There is no possible reality where the fuckheads entrusted with Sonic X-treme ever deliver a good game. We are talking about morons with no senior dev experience who wasted Sega's money making a PC game that could never run on Saturn in an attempt to trick Sega of Japan. They will die without ever admitting it, but they were just milking Sega.

>>11816620
It's multiple layers of licensing.

-There are basic licensing costs for just using the format it.

- Licensing costs for using DVD audio

-Licensing costs for using DVD video.

-Licensing costs for using DVD storage.

Yes. They really do screw you over.


It's why Xbox can't play DVD audio, and can't play DVD video natively (without the remote). Microsoft doesn't want to pay Sony for it.


In addition, Sony has the most DVD factories. There's even an interview floating around where a Sony employee joked to a Sega Employee during dinner that Sega could never match Sony in terms of getting cheaper costs because Sony owns their own DVD factories and makes the discs cheaper. And that Sony would get priority production when it came to the PS2 disc production. Not only would Sega have to pay higher costs, but they would essentially be using Sony's own factories to make the DVDs. Partly why Sega went with Gigabyte discs instead for Dreamcast, Naomi arcade hardware, and Naomi 2 arcade hardware (which came out several years later).

>>11816658
>the ENTIRE INDUSTRY thought photo-realistic 2D textures/video was the future

No they didn't. The industry knew 3D was coming as early as the late 1980s. We had some 3D arcade cabinet games even back then. The question was that no one was sure WHEN exactly it was coming specifically to home consoles.

Sega bet everything on 3D not coming to home consoles until the early 2000s. Sega even preferred that it never come to home console. There's even interviews floating around where Sega Executives said they believed that 3D would stay in arcades as a "premium gaming experience" for people willing to pay for it. While 2D would be for home consoles as a more "affordable gaming experience". Although Sega was a little biased since they owned hundreds of arcades worldwide and didn't want to lose their arcade customers.

Then Of course Sony came in and basically said, "f*ck that noise. We are bringing 3D to home consoles in 1995."

>>11816667
Everyone knew you could do 3D with good enough hardware or a low enough framerate, entire genres like Racing and Flight Sim went to raycasted/flat-shaded 3D in the late 80s. The average gamer also thought 3D games that weren't named Doom were either stuck in the arcade or flat-shaded 5 FPS abominations until 1996. There were sketchy ads in the back of EGM trying to convince you to import a PS1 so you could play Ridge Racer, King's Field, Tekken etc, but 99% of us were not about to drop $700 to import a PS1 in 1994, and we assumed those games played and looked like Jaguar/3DO games. Of course, when Nintendo saw any of those 1994 Playstation games, they knew 3D was the future and that they needed a real 3D console, but unfortunately it was too late for Sega.

The concept of the Saturn being bad at 3D though is kind of a myth in and of itself. If you can actually code to it's strengths and make proper use of infinite planes and LOD models/textures, it has no problem pushing just as many polygons as PS1, if not more, and with more accurate rendering. The problem, and you understand this from the interviews with Sega executives, is that Sega was ran by morons, and those morons let even dumber American morons be in charge of making the key game for the US market. The PS1 was such a game changer though I still think they would have been fine with no Sonic game if just not for the PS1. PS1 got all the great 3D games that needed sharp realistic texture rendering and multiple disks by default because of how awful Nintendo's hardware was, those would have all been on Saturn with no PS1, RE2/Metal Gear, all of it. Never believe this lie English speakers like to tell that the N64 wasn't just as poorly designed as the Saturn, especially if we're talking about braindead RAM setups and cartridges, they ruined the consoles ability to compete for serious/realistic looking games during the design stage. NoA was just less braindead than SoA.

>>11816658
>HOW? Sonic Team stays in America for 2 more years?
No, it's to polish up Sonic 3 to give it some Saturn enhancements, Nights will still exist, but it will be a Sonic game instead, Sega does have a Christmas for 1994.

>Daytona USA is the only reason anyone bought a Saturn before 1995.
Virtua Fighter says hi, but with Sonic it will do wonders.

>Sonic 3D Blast
No Genesis version = Saturn version is allowed to be a real 3D game like Mario 64 and have a red book audio version of Jun Senoue and Tatsuyuki Maeda's Sonic 3D Blast sound track, Saturn would've sold like hot cakes in December of 1995/6 if Sonic was there.

>Sonic X-treme
2MB of SDRam (and not the split 1MB each of DRam and SDRam that we ended up getting) and triangles (not quads) = Sonic X-treme sees the light of day.

>>11807280 (OP)
It did have some 3rd-party support for a while, it had games that developers felt needed more powerful hardware in order to shine like Soul Calibur or Resident Evil: Code Veronica.

>>11816401
>20 million+ consoles sold wasn't that bad and then the Wii's success(without DVD/Blu-Ray support) also proves you don't need it for the consoles to sale.
Nintendo misled at E3 by claiming the Wii could play DVDs (https://youtu.be/anRy0JeHeCY?si=oc0LA7cQAIQJWcjI&t=2108 (35:08) I know this because my sister wanted a Wii and pitched it as a DVD player too. They doubled down on this misinformation in Nintendo Power.

>Dreamcast underperformed because of piracy.
SEGA couldn’t produce enough consoles at the end of 1999. I know because I had to wait until February 2000 to get mine. On top of that, there was no EA support, so SEGA had to invest more in Visual Concepts. This led Konami to avoid releasing any PES version for Dreamcast, while SEGA’s internal studios focused on arcade-style games like 90 Minutes and Virtua Striker. Imagine being an Irish, Spanish, German, or Brazilian SEGA fan who wants to buy a Dreamcast but: 1) None are available until 2000, and 2) There’s no FIFA or PES, only Virtua Striker. You’d rather wait for the PS2 since Konami and EA confirmed full support for it. If you could wait four months for a Dreamcast, you could wait twelve months for a PS2.

Piracy didn’t hurt the Dreamcast. Someone who pirates is either unable to afford the games to begin with or unable to purchase a game because it’s not available. Piracy doesn’t determine a console’s failure. The NES, PS1, PS2, and Wii are prime examples of how this argument doesn’t hold up and how ignorant you are.

PD: Suck my fat cock.

>>11816575
>The vast majority of 7th,
GayCube games like Metroid Prime or Starfox Adventures used C-stick for inventory propurses, and most games like F-Zero GX don't even use that stick, games that used it for camera like Windu Waika or Sunshine still uses the N64's Z-trigger (with L) to center the camera; you won't use the C-stick but only to move your wand in Windu Waika.

And Dreamcast had KB&M support, I played Quake 3 a lot back in the day and I used to browser the web on my DC too, I had a GayCube too; I was there and most of you faggots are so full of bullshit.

Kill yourself.

>>11816604
>This is the reason Sega of America was given so much leeway to be complete idiots pushing garbage hardware and garbage games that never released like Sonic Xtreme.

SOA had to push that because SOJ was being complete fucking retards and didn't tell Drama King Yuji Naka to shut the fuck up, sit down, and make a Sonic game.
Shit if they had just make Clockwork Knight a Sonic game, the saturn already would've sold much better.
Japan ignored their #1 money maker region and that's why the company folded.

>>11816604
>the Saturn was still a hit in Japan
That's because Virtua Fighter was a huge phenomenon at the time and Saturn came prepackaged with it. Note that no other game sold half as good as VF2 in Japan. Nobody gave a shit about non-VF2 games. I think Grandia was the closest to a popular game on the Saturn and even that one only sold maybe half a million.

>The difficult coding environment on Saturn is just a cope that I wouldn't be surprised if Sega themselves started saying.
It started because the initial saturn devkits were giant heavy boxes where to debug anything you had to install an ICE pod in the CPU socket, and because the early dev tools were a low level library for handling backup memory and cd access and nothing else. And even that one was reserved to first parties, even second parties didn't get to buy them, they had to visit Sega's office once a week to get some time share on it.

By the time you got the SGL dev tools which allowed you to drop games onto the hardware and the Cartdev that was just a modified Saturn you could just connect to a PC and get cracking, it was already 1996, and half the games third parties started to make didn't even get finished because support for the machine completely dried up in 1997.

>>11816960
The Wii can play DVDs with homebrew.
>>11816976
Sakura Wars says hi.

>>11817135
>with homebrew
t. mononeural tendie

>>11807386
Nintendo lacks both

>>11817206
Not true, they have the quality.

>>11817229
>Not true, they have the quality.
they clearly don't

>>11817272
Yes, they do, case in point.

>>11817272
Yes, they do.

>>11808010
I agree, every controller needs two analog sticks.
There is an actual story to this, developers didn't want two analog sticks at that point:
https://www.segasaturnshiro.com/2022/06/03/interview-kenji-tosaki-talks-saturn-dreamcast-peripheral-design/
Dual Analog sticks weren't used that much by many games in the 90s. Now it is seen as required for FPS games.

>>11817561
>It wasn't our fault. It was the developers that told us no!
>We at Sega actually made the Wii mote before Nintendo, but we respect Nintendo for catching up with our ideas 10 years later.

You really have to respect Sega's (and Asian culture) ability to shift blame. While also claiming all credit for good things.

It's really an artform.

>>11807893
GB,GBC,GBA,NDS,3DS. That's how they survived the Gamecube and Wii U. Unfortunately we will never see new handhelds like that again because of smartphones. Shit sucks, bro.

>>11817561
You've never heard of the term "face" in Japanese culture? Admitting they were wrong is literally the worst thing they can do in their Japanese society.

>>11817561
>I agree, every controller needs two analog sticks.
I know is not retro at all but WiiMote+Nunchuck proves you wrong. Dreamcast with KB&M proves you wrong too.
>Now it is seen as required for FPS games
Dual analog + FPS = Terrible and disgusting auto-aim.
Any faggot will tell you that any FPS requires KB&M and/or motion aim. Again, I know is not /vr/ but WiiMote proves it and Valve acknowledges it with its Steam Controller and Steam Deck, even Switch 2 incorporates an optical sensor to each JoyCon to mitigate the dual analog bullshit. Most GameCube games uses the c-Stick for inventory and menu proposes. Then again, Dreamcast didn't need a 2 analog controller but more KB/M support, as this Anon said >>11809676 they could have included a keyboard and mouse with the console.

Dual analog controllers are retardation.

>>11817657
The Wii printed so much money that Nintendo could survive 1 to 2 console generations of failures after the Wii. Thankfully Switch was a huge hit.

Then everyone copied Nintenso's design (*cough* Steam deck *cough*)

>>11817815
Sony had a handheld device that could connect and output to a TV long before Nintendo decided to copy that idea

>>11817867
Back around 2010, I had both a PS3 and a PSP Go. The PS3 was in the living room, hooked up to a Bravia, and in my bedroom, I had my old PS2 connected to a widescreen Trinitron, where I played the bloody brilliant Gran Turismo 4 in its full glory at 1080i. At uni, a mate who was a bit of a nerd told me he had a PSP 2000 that he connected to his telly, and he had these headphones with controls like an iPod Shuffle. When I heard that, I asked him if that stuff was compatible with my PSP Go, and the bloke’s eyes lit up, haha, proper nice guy. We ended up becoming mates, playing PES in ad-hoc mode, but that’s not the point. The important bit is he told me there was a dock for my PSP and that I could pair a DualShock 3 to my PSP Go using my PS3 as a bridge... that year, I played my PSP Go absolutely loads. My PS2 wasn’t modded, but with my PSP, I could play Tekken 2 with my brother on my telly, me using the PSP and him with the DualShock. I also remember weekends playing Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker with my mates: one of them hooked his PSP up to my monitor, I was on my telly, and another was on his console, all three of us in ad-hoc mode, having a cracking time. It was mental. I also recall a mate of ours who lived alone but was skint, haha, proper broke. We’d visit him with our PSPs, connect one to his computer monitor, and set up PES matches while drinking cheap Budweiser lol. Good times that won’t come back. PSP Go was the best portable console I’ve ever had.

>>11817867
the sega nomad did that in 1995.

>>11817920
Also true. Though the Nomad was, rather stupidly, just a portable Mega Drive, with no unique games of its own.

>>11817909
Total Sony domination

This thread should be a Dreamcast general

>>11816431
False. If DVD was soooooo important, the Panasonic Gamecube would have sold like crazy. DVD just isn't important. Video streaming didn't become widely popular until 2010. Stop being a triggered coomer.

>>11816495
True. High capacity storage is necessary. Xbox had that with it's internal hard drive and DVD-rom format.

>>11816960
False. No one watches E3 and the main reason the Wii sold like crazy was because of the WiiFit, not the claim of having a "DVD" player. As for Dreamcast, piracy killed it. The Dreamcast was doing just fine until piracy became a problem and scared away third party developers, which led to cancellation of many Dreamcast games such as Castlevania Resurection, Agartha, Grand Theft Auto 3(which would have been a system seller), and Fable. Which is a shame because I was looking forward to those games. Piracy killed the Dreamcast. Also piracy wasn't widespread on NES, PS1, PS2 or the Wii. You needed a mod chip for at least all of those. Stay triggered bruh.

>>11817417
>low budget indie games for toddlers
>poor hardware build quality ever since the first famicom
>hardware too weak to run contemporary games (with the exception of snes, n64, and gc)
They never did, they never will.

>>11818439
>No one watches E3
>[...]They doubled down on this misinformation in Nintendo Power..
Weak tendie trying to play the deception card like a juicy jew, what s surprise.
>As for Dreamcast, piracy killed it. The Dreamcast was doing just fine until piracy became a problem and scared away third party developers
False, the actual reason is that SEGA got bankrupt and discontinued the Dreamcast, that's why GameCube ended up with Super Monkey Ball as a launch title.
>Piracy killed the Dreamcast
Saturn killed the Dreamcast, and EA Sports was the last nail in the coffin.
>Also piracy wasn't widespread on NES, PS1, PS2 or the Wii.
Heh, tendies are so delusional, such tribe of liars. Famiclons weren't a thing, huh? PS1 and PS2 swap trick was a myth and Wii tweezers are a hoax.

Little man, you are so full of bullshit. Tendies are nothing but scum.

>>11807325
I love my Gamecube, but if I had to choose for one to exist it would be the Dreamcast.

Off topic: When the fuck is someone going to do a non-tranny fantranslation for Sakura Wars 3 if it all so great?

What do you guys think would have happened if there was no piracy on dreamcast and it survived?

>>11817561
Sega totally should sue Nintendo for infiringing on their controller layout patents.

>>11807280 (OP)
but it did. Dreamcast had 624 licenced games, the GameCube had 652. That's only 4% more despite being on the market for twice as long.

>>11818951
>but it did. Dreamcast had 624 licenced games, the GameCube had 652. That's only 4% more despite being on the market for twice as long.
I think GameCube had little 3rd party support due its rampant piracy, that's the only reason of its failure.

>>11818951
At least 60% of the Dreamcast library is just arcade ports or ports of 5th gen games, didn’t take as long to produce those.

>>11819067
Ports or teh definitiv version that's here teh question

>>11818439
the panasonic q was an expensive luxury device made in low numbers. it sold in low numbers for the same reason high end reference quality DVD players sold in low numbers. it also had no market. kids who played game just wanted the console, parents who wanted movies already had a PS2 or a standalone DVD player, and home movie buffs who bought luxury high end items though it looked completely ugly and out of place with the rest of their devices.

>>11818531
>Weak tendie trying to play the deception card like a juicy jew, what s surprise.
False. You're the only one being deceptive. No one really watches E3, including hardcore gamers. Your antisemitism won't change that fact Nick Fuentes.

>False, the actual reason is that SEGA got bankrupt and discontinued the Dreamcast, that's why GameCube ended up with Super Monkey Ball as a launch title.
>Saturn killed the Dreamcast, and EA Sports was the last nail in the coffin.
False. Piracy was eating away at their profits, they were selling their consoles at a loss to install a bigger fanbase just so they can make more money with the games they sell. Piracy stands in the way of that and it scared away third party developers as a result. Sega didn't need EA because Sega had Visual Concepts for sports titles and the Saturn only failed because it was too expensive and the 32X added to Sega's problems with selling the Saturn.

>Heh, tendies are so delusional, such tribe of liars. Famiclons weren't a thing, huh? PS1 and PS2 swap trick was a myth and Wii tweezers are a hoax.
>Little man, you are so full of bullshit. Tendies are nothing but scum.
False. There's no data proving NES games were pirated. It was too fucking successful, eclipsing the Sega Master System. That's all thanks to the cartridge format. PS1 and PS2 needed modchips and guess what? Modchipped consoles are extremely rare to find and I own USED PS1's and PS2's, I've opened them up for cleaning. No mod chip in sight. Wii was also very successful, piracy couldn't even put a dent in Nintendo's sales. So the only one lying and bullshitting here is you.

>>11819173
Not really. I had a chance to buy a Panasonic Gamecube for about $350 and guess what? I choose the regular Gamecube instead because I already have a DVD player via my Xbox(with remote). The Panasonic Gamecube wasn't overpriced at the time, unlike it is on eBay. Nintendo fans literally didn't care for DVD players. They game for Zelda, Mario and Metroid.

>>11821047
>False. Piracy was eating away at their profits, they were selling their consoles at a loss to install a bigger fanbase just so they can make more money with the games they sell.

The software loophole that allowed pirated discs to play on Dreamcast was patched out in later production models. So only the early production runs of Dreamcast consoles had that vulnerability.

Try again.

>>11821162
NTA but he's right that they did sell the dreamcast at a loss. Piracy never had a significant impact on sales though because the scene didn't take off until DC was already dead. The sales fell off a cliff when ps2 released and kept plummeting when the eminent death was announced by sega. That anon is using some really backwards logic by assuming piracy years after the consoles death killed it. He's probably a zoomer.

>>11814590
>fifa
now check REAL sale numbers from vidya magazines scans from europe (1998-2006) and not your precious "wikipedia"

>>11815471
>but in my country (Spain) no one played Fifa.
ostia tio que mentiroso. I mean, that is not true, I know piracy was a huge deal back then, but FIFA got the "media push" due to famous sportsnews speaker and TV ads, as the other anon said:

>Nobody's disputing that PES was the better game, but it was always the case back then that it was the underdog and retarded normalfags bought FIFA anyway. That Wikipedia article is absolute horse shit.
this upper statement is true.

>>11813584
>>11814505
>>11814590
PES was generally seen as better than FIFA by most in the 2000's just like FIFA has been generally seen as better than PES in the 2010's, though FIFA's always sold more and had more mass appeal, among football fans PES was the king until the PS2 era ended, FIFA08 and PES2008 is when FIFA really took over. Bomba Patch for PS2 is still the genre's peak in gameplay and sales.

>>11821162
>patched out in later production models
Which were released by the time Sega already announced they were exiting the market and sold their remaining stock of dreamcasts for $50.

>>11821047
>There's no data proving NES games were pirated.

NES is the most pirated console on the face of the planet.

>>11821047
You are so full of bullshit that I can't breath, you are saying too much bullshit man that I don't even know where should I start to begin with, like... PS1 and PS2 need no modchip to play pirated games, you just need to swap a signed disc like a demo disc with a pirated burned CD and that was it. I don't even know how could I explain in less than 2000 characters that Saturn and EA Sports killed Dreamcast.

This is something that I hate about kikes and Tendies. You know you are lying and just wasting my time.

>>11807280 (OP)
By being the best vidya console ever

>>11809812
i find both charming in their own unique ways, personally

>>11809812
It's the opposite. ps1 wobbly shit has aged poorly. It's an ugly mess that assaults your eyes. while n64 has a clean look to it that gets better over time.

>>11823037
>>11821047
You're both wrong. Sega died because arcades died.

>>11816960
It's weird to replying to a 3 day old post on /v/ but it's even weirder seeing someone so sure of themself while having such a shit memory.

>Piracy didn’t hurt the Dreamcast. >Someone who pirates is either unable to afford the games to begin with or unable to purchase a game because it’s not available.

This just wasn't true of that era. People downloaded warez then because the concept of getting free shit on the Internet was novel and was basically half of what people went online to do.

Piracy doesn’t determine a console’s failure. The NES, PS1, PS2, and Wii are prime examples of how this argument doesn’t hold up and how ignorant you are.

>PS1
Home computers weren't common throughout most of its run. By end they were still only in about 1/4 of American households and maybe 1/10th of those knew how to use a CD-R drive. Some hobby shops selling burnt discs in Eastern Europe weren't a problem yet.

>NES
The Famicom was already a successful product in Japan before they even considered it for worldwide distribution. Nintendo was always playing it safe and got massively lucky that the NES was the Christmas 1985 fad gift despite high failure rates. Regardless of famiclones and multicarts, it still continues to have legs because it's a cheap potato that they can keep rolling out licensed hardware and software for in the third world.

>PS2
I'm pretty sure it didn't become compromised until they released the hard drive, which no one bought anyway. Meanwhile, the Xbox got FUCKED HARD by piracy.

>Wii
Wii is a fringe case. I still don't think there's a coherent explanation as to how that waggleshit sold so well.

>>11824273
>Wii is a fringe case. I still don't think there's a coherent explanation as to how that waggleshit sold so well.

Are you really so detached from reality that you can't even understand the basic reasons why the Wii sold well? Sad.

It was the first console to effectively do easy motion controls and mass produce it for the for everyone. So much so that Xbox and Playstation scrambled to copy Wii with their add-ons.

Dreamcast failed because Saturn sucked all SEGA $$$ and EA boycotted the shit out of the Dreamcast. Konami did not release a Winning Eleven game on this thing and on top of that all the normies where waiting for the PS2 because Sony told them to do so. SEGA invest $$$ with Visual Concepts and yeah NFL2K, NBA2K, World Series Baseball 2K and Virtua Tennis did GREAT, fantastic sports game but where's fucking its 2K equivalent to fucking FIFA and PES? 90-minute football? Virtua Striker? SEGA SPORTS did great for Murricans and Nips but Football vidya is worldwide

Is so simple but /vr/ faggots can't understand how fucking important was FIFA AND PES back then.

That 'muh piracy' is retardation. NES, PSX, PS2 and WII where pirated ad infinitum, and no faggot you didn't need to mod your PSX/PS2 to run burned discs, you only swap a fucking demo or an original game during its boot sequence with the burned copy and that was it, you can even load pirated PSX games this way on PS3 Super Slim. Cut it out with that bullshit for fucks sakes.

tl;dr
1.- Saturn oblitarated SEGA finances
2.- EA boycotted Dreamcast
3.- It lacks a good football game (Virtua Striker and 90minute football can't compare with FIFA or PES... fuck not even with This is Football 2001)
4.- Sony's Juggernaut AKA PS2 dropped 6 months later in March 2000.

>B-but muh piracy man, muh arcade dying
Shut the fuck up man, I swear to your God that I would punch you right in your fucking throat if I could. Obnoxious piece of shit fuck you

>b-but famiclones are a myth and this youtube essay says that it was mandatory to install a modchip on a PSX to load burned disc and this other video essay says that only rich people could afford a CD burner, a-and...
Man just SHUT THE FUCK UP, BACK IN 1999 I HAD A GOD DAMN IBM THINKCENTER WITH A FUCKING CD BURNER BUILD IN AND I'M A MEXICAN MOTHER FUCKER GOD DAMN A CD BURNER WAS SO AFFORDABLE BACK THEN THAN EVEN A NORTHERN MEXICAN COULD AFFORD IT

Back then, you needed to burn this Utopia swap disc to run those ripped, pirated CDIs. Then, around 2002 (with Dreamcast dead), someone dropped those autoboot CDIs that didn’t need Utopia.

I know because I was there. I didn’t even bother running pirated Dreamcast games because it wasn’t worth it. You had to rip shit out of the game, burn Utopia, and then burn the shitty ripped CDI. On PSX, I just needed one original game and a burned disc with the whole game on it. Yeah, there was a modchip, but that was mostly popular in South America because Sony sold no original games there, so importers chipped their PSX beforehand. That way, the end user could play anything on that shit.

Any European, Mexican, or American can confirm what I’m talking about. There was this forum, Elotrolado.net, any Spaniard or Mexican here will confirm that back in the day, you didn’t need a modded PSX to run pirated games. Even with that, the fucking PSX was a massive success. On Dreamcast, it wasn’t common to run pirated games because it was such a pain in the ass, and you’d only get a ripped version of the real thing.

Saying piracy killed Dreamcast while ignoring that PSX, PS2, NES, and Wii were massive successes despite being the most pirated consoles is just delusional.

I know this website is full of contrarian idiots, but goddamn, this is pure retardation. Anyone who had a Dreamcast back then knows the EA boycott and PS2 were what killed it. Anybody who owned one will confirm the console was perfect. Goddamn, there’s a good reason why Dreamcast is so beloved.

Imagine being so stupid as to claim Famicom wasn’t a thing or that you needed to mod your PlayStation or PS2 to run burned discs. I hate every one of you, goddamn.

>>11825146
another big reason is that it was the only console that gen that wasnt burning itself up after 30 minutes of gameplay in 2006

>>11810269
>>11812338
>>11816401
>>11818439
>>11821047
>piracy killed the Dreamcast

You do realize that pirated Dreamcast discs were glitchy and buggy right? Dreamcast used 1GB discs, and pirated CDs had a limit of 700MB. That means you had delete and rip out 30% (300 MB) of a Dreamcast game to fit on a pirated CD. No cut scenes. Reduced dialog or deleted dialog. Missing animations. Sometimes the game would accidentally crash or freeze due to ripping out too much critical data and you had to remake the disc.

>>11825349
>>11825391
>>11825439
Based mad mex

>>11823527
Nice

>>11821162
The later production models of the Dreamcast were released towards to end of the Dreamcast life cycle, but by then it was already too late because they still wouldn't be able to combat piracy with the already sold Dreamcast consoles that doesn't have that patch, which led to Sega losing more money to the point that they were forced to exit. Cry again.

>>11823013
After market Famiclones released decades later after the NES lifecycle doesn't prove your point. Nice try.

>>11823037
You can't breath because you're full of shit. And I already made my valid points debunking your claims. Cry again piratefag.

>11825349
Rage ranting incoherently isn't driving your point home. Cry again.

>11825391
>bot response spewing the same shit as the guy who was rage ranting
Go microblog at tumblr.

>>11825628
Piracy killed the Dreamcast.

>>11826253
>After market Famiclones released decades later after the NES lifecycle

We had one in 1990, I still have it. They were common as fuck even then, and so were bootleg Megadrive/Genesis carts.

>>11825628
>You do realize that pirated Dreamcast discs were glitchy and buggy right?
There were like... two games that had tons of copy protection (Skies of Arcadia maybe? I forgot...) and required multiple attempts to be cracked. That was the worst case scenario only and only for a small handful of titles, I only remember that one.

For the rest of the games, half of them had zero issues because the games never even used the entire disc, and crackers learned to pad the disc so it loads fast. The other half had downsampled audio/fmvs, or removed cd audio tracks, and the worst glitches they had was loading slower (Shenmue had more popup) from the CD. There weren't any magical missing animations or glitches, except for that one rpg whose name I forgot because it had specific copy protections; a problem which also affected other consoles (Spyro 3 comes to mind, but even Panzer Dragoon RPG had extra protection against cheat carts).

>>11826253
>And I already made my valid points debunking your claims
That's false. You are straight up lying.

>>11826325
Not that anon, but I think we can guess that if the Dreamcast continued for another 2 or 3 years then things would have been different. No doubt they would have beefed up the copy protections of later games, but also push the limits of 1gb storage discs. Games towards the later generation always push the limits of storage.

>>11807285
>throughout most of the 90s their arcade hardware was god-tier

Sega had the grandest and fastest 3D arcade games, were actual pioneers in the field, and had contracts with US Armed Forces to produce war simulations since they were that good.

They then treated 3D as an afterthought for the Saturn.

Mind-bogglingly stupid management, how do you have such a monumental lead and then immediately shit your pants?

>>11826517
I was reading through numerous old Sega interviews and Sony Interviews for the last year. I can't pretty much sum up the answer to your question with one word: Arrogance.

In my personal opinion, I think Sega of Japan purposely didn't WANT to put 3D games on consoles. It would threaten their arcade business. Remember at their peak, Sega owned thousands of arcades worldwide. Not all of them were in Sega's direct name, but Sega bought competitor arcade chains and continued operating them.

There are several interviews (before the Saturn was announced) where various high level Executives at Sega of Japan arrogantly said that they believed 3D games are a premium/high-end gaming experience meant for only people visiting arcades. And 2D games are the more affordable option for cheaper home consoles.

The Sony came in and gave Sega the middle finger. And announced the Playstation was 3D focused. Which sent Sega in a huge panic. Sony didn't give a single f*ck about Arcades. Sony didn't own any arcades and was happy to put 3D games in consoles.

Sega of Japan truly believed that they could control the 3D gaming and who had access.

>>11825349
mostly this, it was a mix of your four points. I will add a five one:

vidya magazines were so "playstation" biased that told everybody and his mom that PS2 will be the second coming of crist and it was but only on 2003 onwards.

>>11826317
No such thing.

>>11826376
I'm not lying, but you sure are.

>>11818439
It was important, it was just cheaper to buy a GameCube and DVD separately.>>11818526
Not the case as...

>High budget AAA games for everyone
>Excellent hardware build quality ever since the first Famicom
>Hardware too weak to run bloated western games but more then enough for Japanese games
>>11821047
They did want DVD and CD playback, the Q just cost too much for what it was.

bump

>>11816667
>Sony came in and basically said, "f*ck that noise. We are bringing 3D to home consoles in 1995."
like fuck they did. the ps1 is barely capable of running 3D games. it couldn't even do the right math to handle perspective, hence all the wobbling polys on ps1.
You make it sound like they kicked the door in all confidently when really they were lucky to have talented devs like Naughty Dog hacking shit together.

>>11830525
>like fuck they did
thats right, they did it in 1994

>>11816960
>Someone who pirates is either unable to afford the games to begin with or unable to purchase a game because it’s not available
the fuck? I pirate shit i could easily afford every single day.

>>11830525
PS1 3D is excellent. It holds up even today.

>>11830542
ps1 3d holds up as a great example of what the world would look like if it were made of jello with pixelated stickers slapped on it

>>11830548
Looks better than a world made of plastic and Vaseline smears. PS1 graphics look better than modern graphics.

>>11830553
you gotta be more subtle if you expect people to take the bait

>>11830525
>You make it sound like they kicked the door in all confidently when really they were lucky
Sega themselves admit they were surprised by Sony going full 3D with Playstation. They were completely taken by surprise.

>>11830534
>I pirate shit i could easily afford every single day.
Stop deceiving yourself, Juan.

>>11830640
my name is Grayson

>>11828490
If that were the case, no one would buy the Gamecube. They would have just bought a PS2 and the Gamecube would have crashed and burned alongside the Xbox(which required a remote for DVD playback).

>>11830727
But real life doesn't work that way.

good thread

>>11830759
Of course real life doesn't work that way. Both Xbox and Gamecube combined sold 50-million units without DVD support. Not everyone bought a Panasonic Gamecube or an Xbox DVD remote. Some people just wanted an alternative to the PS2 for games.