>people complain about Hexen's "puzzles", all of which amount to "see switch, hit switch"
>no one complains about Ultima Underworld 2's puzzles, which involve tracking down hundreds of clues, digging through every corner, looking under every rock, juggling inventory, amassing scrolls and items, many of which are not at all clear they are critically important, engaging in 1-time npc dialogue you can permanently screw yourself out of if you miss, to open arbitrary doors in completely different levels you thought you'd already cleared hours ago to continue on the main quest
Why is /vr/ so disingenuous? Or are they just not experienced at classic gaming?

>>11811759 (OP)
Majuular

>>11811770
He's good cause he actually does some genuine research. I know more about the classic Ultima games than any living person who didn't work at Origin and I'm surprised he managed to dredge up some of the lost factoids about 2-5. Not bad.
I'm not sure I agree with his interpretation that 6's Gargoyles were meant to parallel a soviet-like collectivist society, though.

>>11811759 (OP)
Perhaps because they're different genres? You expect puzzles in a Monkey Island game but not in a Contra title

>>11811759 (OP)
Because only huge Ultima fans give a shit about Ultima Underworld II, it’s just the first game but worse and less influential.

>>11811759 (OP)
It's about expectation. Most people go into Hexen thinking it's gonna be Heretic 2.

>>11811759 (OP)
>Or are they just not experienced at classic gaming?
Of course the latter retard. Allowing gen 6 consoles opened the flood gate of retards like you here. How many Underworld 2 threads you see?

Hexen is sort of a sequel to Heretic, which is a game that's more or less a reskin/total conversion of Doom, having fairly similar overall gameplay.
Hexen is expected to be somewhere along these lines, but it's not, and I think it's a matter of people not having their expectations met. Hexen tries to kind of be somewhere between the Doom action shooter, and the old RPG dungeon crawl with puzzles, but it doesn't really do a good of a job of being either.

From a Doom perspective, Hexen does not have very good monsters and not very good weapons (you only get four per playthrough, and they're just not that fun). The monster types are lacking in variety and aren't enjoyable, one of the most common monsters is one which will block your weapons and which you need to throw flechette flasks at, he's obnoxious and not fun at all to fight. Every time I see another one of the Centaur fucks, I sigh in bored frustration.
Even when you aren't having attacks blocked, most of the weapons don't feel particularly strong or effective.

You're not figuring out riddles or solving any real puzzles (nor are you talking to anyone), you're just going back and forth for switches and keys, which sometimes are not conveyed particularly well.
The dildo key! It would logically go in the dildo lock, but where the fuck is that? I don't know, maybe you remember seeing it somewhere back, or maybe you haven't seen it at all yet.
Flipping a completely non-descript and plain switch somewhere, "a third of the puzzle has been solved." What the fuck does that mean? What is the puzzle? How do I solve the rest? Look for another plain and non-descript switch, maybe if you pull all three of them, something happens?

I don't WANT to hate on Hexen, because there's still cool things about the game, but it's a struggle to enjoy.

>>11811792
Exactly, it's even titled Hexen : Beyond Heretic.

>>11811805
You think /vr/ was overrun with threads about Ultima Underworld 2 back in the 2010s?

>>11811814
No. But modern/vr/ would have much less discussion. I. E OP is arguing against a strawman

>>11811789
This. HeXen was seemingly an attempt to combine the fantasy adventure/dungeon crawler genres with the FPS genre, presumably to give it a unique twist. The problem is that hunting down switches in labyrinths which change things clear across the map, with little to no indication of exactly what, gets frustrating when you're constantly having to deal with intense FPS combat, and boring when you're eager to move on to new combat scenarios.

>>11811809
>>11811853
Heretic was fun, but I just gave up on Hexen despite liking the combat. Switch hunting is fucking lame.

>Or are they just not experienced at classic gaming?
The Ultima games as a whole don't come across as particularly 'approachable' to generations who didn't grow up with them.
When it comes to younger people checking out retro gaming, oldschool computer RPGs take more investment and effort, and the payoff may not be obvious or soon enough for them to give it a chance. It's a hard sell for their expectations on videogames.

Compare to old Nintendo and Sega console games, arcade titles, or PC action games as popularized by Doom and what not, they may be very different compared to what a zoomer grew up with too, but those games are also generally pretty quick and easy to drop into and learn, and you can have fun right away, those kinds of games are never on a slow boil.
Not to say they're all afraid of RPGs, a couple will actually roll up their sleeves and get down with series like Wizardry even (including the 4th one), but they're far more likely to be willing to give computer RPGs a more serious chance if they're from the late 90s or early 2000s, than the early 90s or the 1980s.

>>11811759 (OP)
> all of which amount to "see switch, hit switch"
Not really. There's a fair number that involve actual environmental interactivity.

>>11811809
The switch-hunting can get tedious, but beyond that, everything you said is just your preferences not being met. I don't mind the centaurs. In fact they're interesting because they have actual strategy to them instead of just shooting it harder like with the enemies in Doom that mindlessly close in on you and then attack. Having an enemy with an actual defensive capability that it actively uses is beyond anything in Doom or Heretic.

>>11811959
>In fact they're interesting because they have actual strategy to them instead of just shooting it harder like with the enemies in Doom that mindlessly close in on you and then attack.
The strategy of Doom's monster and their behavior are very straight forward, but their differing stats and abilities still make for a lot of variety and tactics (depending on how a level uses them, mind). With the rounded out Doom 2 set, each of them serve a different role and can be employed in a lot of ways, which is why people have made thousands and thousands of maps for these games.

>Having an enemy with an actual defensive capability that it actively uses is beyond anything in Doom or Heretic.
I don't strictly mind the concept, I just dislike that it's one of the most common low tier enemies. I feel that the shield ability should have been reserved for something fairly tough and menacing instead.

>>11811759 (OP)
no one played UU2
most people don't know it exists they only know about UU1 because of how overrated and shilled it is, they didn't play it either they are posers

>>11811759 (OP)
Different audience expectations. People who play Ultima Underworld also likely played games like System Shock that expect more than point and shooting. The people who played Hexen expect it to be another Doom clone. I feel like people that do like Hexen either went in knowing about the puzzles or are more open-minded gamers.

>>11811759 (OP)
I played through Underworld 2 not long ago and I don't recall anything too complex.

>>11811994
>People that played Underworld played a game that wasn't released yet

>>11812437
People who played Ultima Underworld were in fact likely to continue to play other videogames in the future, and would have their future expectations colored by past experience.
Shocking, but true!

>>11811759 (OP)

no one is playing UU expecting medieval Doom