She may not be the best character in FF6, but she is definitely the cutest! Say something nice about her.

One of the interesting facts about Relm is that she can equip more pieces (that is, distinct item types) of basic equipment than pretty much any other character. So much so, that if you do a deep dive on understanding the Merit Award (the pic fragment shows a brief, er, "sketch" of this), her native equipping ability is a useful starting point to understand which items each character CANNOT equip, even if they have the Merit Award on. I may not be phrasing it quite right but that's about the idea.

Basically there's a number of novelty items and "cute outfits", many of which are in fact good equipment, which she can equip (chocobo suit, Moogle suit, that sort of thing), but once you've gone around in the Veldt a few times you'll work up some Behemoth Suits, and that's the killer app armor for both Strago and Relm.

As the youngest team member, Relm also in fact has (IIRC) both the highest max MP and magic power for a given level, even higher than Celes or Terra. So a player focusing on magic boosting in the middlegame is well served to start with her.

The primary utility of Sketch/Control is not for direct help in battle, but rather as a gimmicky way to teach Strago lores or as a creative way to immobilize enemies to farm rare equipment. Happily, once you get an enemy alone, there's no TIME LIMIT on how long they are controlled. So you can neutralize a single target and just keep pot-shotting steals or morphs until the thing you want actually pops. The fact that Relm's ability helps Strago is another clue (along with their general costumes/stature) that the two form a unit. They naturally work well together.

>>11818757 (OP)
She's a cute child for sure.

>>11818765
I just wish Sketch used her own massive Magic power rather than the monster's. I'm guessing they did this because it's Relm technically drawing a "clone" of the monster, so logically the drawing will have the monster's power rather than her own, but it feels shitty when 1. it's already random whether Sketch will yield a monster's special attack or spell, or just a physical, and 2. it has a chance to miss and needs a Beret equipped to raise the chances of success. Plus, while it doesn't take her Magic power into account, it DOES account for her Level, so it's not even Relm creating a perfect replica and attacking with it.

On my first playthrough, I didn't understand how learning magic from magicite worked, so whenever I got a new magicite I would just throw it onto a random party member without any thought. I gave the Ragnarok Magicite to Relm, so she inadvertently became the only party member to know Ultima. After I realized she had a crazy powerful spell that annihilated everything, she never left my party. She ended up getting super over leveled compared to everyone else and became the MVP of the playthrough.

Her music is nice too, I guess.

>>11818783

I don't have it in front of me but I think Djibriel may have done a comprehensive overview of Sketch/Control, in which he (may have?) complained that the basic problem with Sketch as an ability is that you're targeting an enemy with their own abilities, which may backfire. Imagine hitting some fire-enemy guy with his own fire attack, which may potentially heal him, etc. This is why I never messed around with it much except to complete inventory/lore lists. It isn't really practical in the middlegame section in the pivot

Fragment two in the pic (IIRC) shows things that are absolutely exclusive to certain characters, Merit Award or no. Notice how Relm's name shows up a lot.

Plot-wise, another fun thing about Relm is how she gets on well with attack dog Interceptor (because Interceptor remembers her). This goes with the (true) meme of how German Shephards and other such attack dogs are trained to Protecc Little Girl. One would have liked Interceptor to aid Relm in battle once in a while when both Shadow and Relm were present in the party, to further point to their relationship... I just finished a playthrough and it's telling how when the characters are named, Shadow, Relm and Strago all have adjacent cut scenes.

>>11818806
>it's telling how when the characters are named, Shadow, Relm and Strago all have adjacent cut scenes
That's only if you avoid Shadow all throughout the WoB up until the Thamasa segment, no?

Speaking of Relm's equipment, I do like how she has exclusive access to the best helmet in the game, and how she's the only non-sword user who can reach max MBlock, so she's an excellent choice if you want a full max MBlock team, since most of her equipment is unique, only needing one of the two Force Shields to achieve it.

>>11818816

I was referring to the final sequence after you've beaten the game, assuming all three characters are present. Strago and Relm are of course presented as a unit with amusing dialogue, but just before this, Shadow decides to lay down and die in Kefka's crumbling tower, a sad note next to the humor. All this goes very well with drama and the human condition in general IMO. It's easy to miss this adjacency, but there are other natural adjacencies for story: Mog and poor Umaro (who has no other value) are next to each other, the brothers Sabin and Edgar naturally go together, Locke and Celes' relationship is "consummated", etc.

I like the boat ride to Thamasa in WoB along same lines, could easily be acted on a stage for an audience. There's drama (Terra wonders about love, which we naturally take as romantic/sexual love, but which later turns out to be maternal love for the children of Mobliz), Leo and Shadow make some serious/edgy comments, since they're on a serious mission. But then for a bit of comic relief after this, it turns out that Locke is seasick, so he pukes off the side of the boat. Showing the various human emotions all at once, because that's how life actually works.

Finally, Gogo. While Gogo is explicitly introduced as a person whose sex is unclear (something which goes with contemporary tranny/non-binary politics), the game itself contains the clue that Gogo is, of course, a guy. Even with the Merit Award equipped, Gogo manifestly CANNOT put on any of the cute outfits which are exclusive to the women (Minerva, Cat Hood, etc). Because he's a man.

>>11818821
Ah, I should've known that's what you meant. I mus admit, I've always struggled a bit on what to think about Shadow's decision. I understand why he did what he did, but at the same time, a part of me has always wished he could move past the ghosts of his past and find meaning and purpose in the family he has (which, according to what he says to Kefka, he KNOWS he has). I have to say, I was quite pleased with T-Edition's change in this respect for this reason, even if it's fanfiction.
>Leo and Shadow make some serious/edgy comments, since they're on a serious mission
I take it by edgy, you're referring to what Shadow tells Terra. I never took that as edgy, quite frankly. In fact, I take it as him fully understanding what Terra is going through, but at the same time recognizing he is the last person who ought to advise on the matter, given what he has done, thus his warning to her to watch out for those who have "killed their emotions".

>>11818830

The big value with Shadow doing that is that some people don't, and that's how life works too. Everyone else explicitly gets some sort of "redemption arc" with best play. But not everybody gets that. That's also part of being human. You can save Cid on that horrible, god-forsaken island if you really want (and I always do, every time), even though it makes far more dramatic sense for him to die and for Celes to attempt suicide. But in the end, you can't save Shadow. He's just a guy who fights with you now and again.

>>11818834
Banana Man is a war criminal and deserves to die in the wasteland he helped create.

>>11818834
The problem with the Cid scene (which I agree the bad end is much more poignant, and honestly the best scene in the game, better than the opera) is that once you know how it works you would have to fail it on purpose, which feels silly so I don't do that.
Compare that to Meryl in MGS, which, once again the bad end feels more fitting, but saving her is actually hard and requires nuts button mashing skills.

>>11818834
Still, there is some poignancy to Shadow choosing that moment to end it all. The way I interpret it is he wanted to do his part in saving the world and making it a peaceful place (recall that is what he wanted for Interceptor and Relm, according to his last dream), so he did find a purpose, just not one that he felt redeemed him. Once the job was finished, there was no place for an assassin and low-life like him in it.

>>11819298
No shit. It is sad because it devastates Celes, not because he didn't deserve it.

>>11819764
Celes is also a war criminal, she wasn’t wearing a slave crown when she torched Maranda.

>>11819742
He also felt that he didn’t deserve peace or happiness. Considering his reputation when you meet him he was probably right.

>>11819764
>>11819847
Yeah, the game has a tendency to to gloss over bad acts committed by characters so long as they end up as one of the good guys in the end. When they do express regrets, it's only over what they did or didn't do with one of the named characters (Cid over making Celes what she is, Leo for knowing about Terra and doing nothing to help her). Celes AFAIK never expresses any such regrets.

>>11818796
>Her music is nice too, I guess.
I used to go to this Chinese restaurant that inexplicably played Grand Finale on a loop. It was quite bizarre to sit about eating chicken feet as dregs of song leaked out of a set of bagpipes at me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKw4VUYXx9U

>>11818829
Can't Gogo wear a few of the female armours? I distinctly recall Gogo, Terra and Celes being the only characters that could equip such-and-such thingies.

>>11820189
NTA, but nope. Gogo's equipment draw is the same as Strago's, minus the animal suits. As such, the best armor he can equip is the Tao Robe, which is quite mediocre aside from the small Magic and MBlock boosts it gives.

>>11820204
Yeah, I just looked it up for myself. I must've been thinking either Gogo, Relm and Strago or Terra, Celes and Relm and simply misremembered it.

>>11819304

Are you aware that the cliffside where Celes jumps is shaped pretty much exactly like the opera castle stage set? It's basically two screens one on top of the other, the top element is a bit narrower, and at the climax something is flung down. First it's a bouquet of flowers, then it's Celes herself.

>>11819742

I did a close look on the Shadow dream sequences this past play-through. No need to dump all my notes, but I realized a few fun things this time.

The dreams show Shadow (Clyde) and Baram escaping from a forest with a train, just like the phantom forest we saw recently, where they just robbed a million GP. They end up on a shore that looks exactly like the spot in the Veldt just off Baren falls. Shadow cannot bring himself to kill Baram (slitting his throat would be the simplest way to do it). Instead, Shadow runs away. Somehow, he ends up in Thamasa, and nature takes its course.

The above maps, very dark palette swaps for the earlier locations, are not "recycled" maps showing some other place. They refer to the EXACT path that Shadow travels when he tags along for the first time. Shadow is FAMILIAR with this area. He has been here before. When he accompanies Sabin, he's going through the area at least a second time. This also explains perfectly why Shadow departs at the point of jumping off Baren falls. That's how Baram got injured, and the memory is painful.

ALSO, Shadow is initially introduced as a tough guy who would "slit his mama's throat for a nickel". But in fact, the game shows exactly the opposite. He CANNOT bring himself to kill someone close to himself, even when a large amount of money is in question.

>>11820430
>million gp
What was their grand plan, buy two or three model airships and a robot imp?

>>11820430
One thing I always found curious is how you can buy equipment for Shadow in the Imperial continent, but IIRC if you recruit him for Zozo, he leaves you after finishing that segment, and there's no way to encounter or use him for Vector. By the time you can use him for the Thamasa segment (for all of five minutes), you have access to better equipment. It feels like you were supposed to be able to use him at least once more, perhaps for the Sealed Cave, since Shadow actually has unused airship dialogue for the WoB.

>>11820430
Bro this is some peak FF6 deep dive shit. I’m about to replay for like the fifth time (haven’t played it in ant least ten years) and I appreciate this level of detail. Thanks for writing this up

>>11820934
If you're interested in more FF6 autism, some anon did a Let's Play series of threads here like a year ago, and there's lots of tips, observations, and other interesting tidbits there. Search for "/vr/ plays final fantasy 6" on the archive.

>>11818757 (OP)
>popin' rabbit

>>11818757 (OP)
>She may not be the best character in FF6
Not the best, but not shabby either. Highest starting magic stat and Control is a great ability once you get it.

I could have sworn Relm could use the Minerva armor but I guess I was wrong. She's good I just think her availability in comparison to Terrra/Celes hampers her. I think they have 'faster' endgame equipment setups too between dual enhancers, minerva, mystery veil so the magic gap is partially evened out in their favor. She is worth leveling because party wise during the Phoenix Cave/Kekfa's tower - if you don't level her she won't be of much value - unlike some party members who only need very specific abilities or equipment to be useful and possibly even want to not learn any magic whatsoever for controlled Arena use.

>>11818757 (OP)
I find it lovely that monster kigurumi costumes can be worn only by her and her grandpa.

>>11821619
Control seems best used for pinning certain monsters down for Stealing and Morphing rather than actually contributing to the battle, as Relm herself could in all likelihood do way more with her Magic than whatever abilities the monsters have, unless you didn't bother to teach her any, that is. I just don't like that it requires a Relic slot to use AND an otherwise mediocre helmet to make it more likely to actually work. I'd just much rather give her a 128 MBlock setup or a Gem Box setup.
>>11821673
That's Relm's issue, kinda - she's the only character who absolutely requires Magic to be decent. Everyone else can get away with a variant of Fight or their special Skill.

Relm is probably more knowledgeable about cocks than Terra or Celes.

>>11822090
Relm is for protecting from lecherous men, NOT for lewding!

>>11822051
Yeah that is the issue with Relm - she has really good stats and great equipment selection to compensate for it tho. Even Strago you can just ignore until you bring him to Hidon for Grand Delta and then he is immediately one of your better party members for the rest of the game afterwards.

>>11822398
I feel like it's as easy as simply having Sketch and Control use her Magic stat instead of the monster's, and make it so they're more successful without needing to equip a Beret or Coronet. Or to give her a bit of variety, maybe a weapon exclusive to her - say, a strong rod that randomly casts Flare or somesuch. Something that makes her usable outside of Magic, if at least so you can actually field her in a Natural Magic game lol

>>11822737
She's kind of an Est in a way. But kinda not because by the time you get her you have the Mystery Veil/Cat Ear Hood, you have the Magus Rod (possibly two), and you have the Behemoth Suit. You just need to teach her some powerful spells and she is fine cause I think with all those stat buffs alone she is rocking over 60 magic mark just off her 44 magic alone. She should reach 9999 vs all enemies with magic insanely fast.

>>11822861
Yeah, and she easily reaches max MBlock, too, which is why I usually take her to Kefka's Tower instead of, say, Cyan. I'm just saying I wish she wasn't COMPLETELY dependent on Magic. Even Terra and Celes aren't, since they can equip some pretty sick weapons and act as fighters.

>>11820934

Since you liked that, have a few more story observations.

The ending of the game, particularly the final moments of the end sequence, are superb, and a fitting end to the whole thing. The underground room in Mobliz is a smaller cave room area, with a larger living space/children's makeshift bedroom at bottom left, and the "adult's" bedroom at top right. Although not exactly identical, the general look of this map is basically the same thing as Maduin's cave in Esperville, very much on purpose, which we see in the long cut scene in the middle about Maduin and how Terra came to be. Terra is depicted as a little baby wrapped in a cloth, using a very small, rarely used sprite for this. The parents have a baby in a cave, and there's other villagers around too.

The big finale at the end of the game, the really meaningful thing, is that Duane and Katarin have a baby themselves, using the same sprite, and this does two things. Most importantly, it symbolizes the continuance of life itself in a single person, the newborn baby, overcoming Kefka's psychotic nihilism and urge for omnicide. But also important is that the room itself and the general circumstances of the birth are a clear callback to Terra's own birth, and the room in which it (presumably) occurred, Maduin's home. Also, around this point, the player/viewer sees quick shots of maps that recall the spring in the Phantom Forest, Lete River, and a rope bridge like Mt. Koltz (but arguably just Mt. Zozo). The point of showing these locations again, which were a loooong way back, much earlier in WoB, and which have been inaccessible for a very long time, is to show that balance has been restored. These places exist again, or something like them.

Completing the above thought, WoB consists of about 30 locations. Most of the main towns are more-or-less intact in WoR. It's the "intermediate", mini-dungeon type areas that vanish in WoR. Those are precisely the areas shown in snapshot at game's finale.

As I wrote the above, I just realized for the first time that caves themselves, more generally, have a special symbolic significance in the game. Or at least, we deal with a LOT of caves throughout the game. They commonly symbolize the good guys, or something like it. The Returners hide out in a cave. The Espers themselves hide out in caves, both in their own world and in the human world. Terra and Locke navigate the Narshe cave system when they have to, which is also where Mog and Umaro live. Figaro castle has a fantastical engine configuration which lets it submerge, thus becoming an artificial cave. Sabin is found at the end of a cave system, Cyan is retrieved much later at the end of a cave system where he has gone into hiding, Gogo is found at the back of the "Zone Eater's Belly" which nevertheless looks suspiciously like a cave, Shadow/Relm is found at the back of the small Veldt cave, Locke at the back of the Phoenix Cave. Darill's Tomb is a sort of underground cave, which improbably houses the last remaining airship. Celes is initially found in a cave-like basement area. Strago and Relm both are in the party permanently, together, in the middle of the Esper cave challenge, where Strago advances the plot a bit with some exposition.

That might be reaching a bit. After all, many of these are just straightforward dungeon crawls that generally happen to be caves, with their own hazards and rewards (re-gaining party members being the best and most important reward), but these "natural" dungeons are usually less scary, and distinguished from the truly dangerous or malevolent places in the game, the man-made places: Vector in general, with the Magitek Research Facility at its heart, and later Kefka's Tower.

>>11822892
MBlock is the only defensive stat that matters in FF6.

>>11822201
lol

>>11823082
It's certainly the most important one, although there are attacks that are unblockable and will go past MBlock, though many of them also ignore defense so having high Magic defense won't help either. Either way, high MBlock setups usually also confer high Magic defense anyway, as well as elemental resistances, so you're rarely in real danger outside of big dick attacks like Última.

>>11823095
What happens in Figaro, stays in Figaro.

>>11823392
And Figaro should hang pedos. Even if they're the king.

>>11820430
>Are you aware that the cliffside where Celes jumps is shaped pretty much exactly like the opera castle stage set? It's basically two screens one on top of the other, the top element is a bit narrower, and at the climax something is flung down. First it's a bouquet of flowers, then it's Celes herself.

Uh yeah, it's the same music track.

>>11821590
Now this is some good art

>>11823683
>Now this is some good art
Bud... I hate to tell you, but that's an AI image.

>>11823687
WHY'D YOU TELL HIM

>>11823693
If only for posterity, I refuse to let ignorance reign.

>>11822892
>Cyan
I was thinking about using him, Celes, Mog, Gau, and Umaro for a run. He has synergy with berserker type characters and runic can be used to protect the party whilst he charges his Bushido.

Gogo too since he can be made into a berserker.

>>11823856
I'm assuming the idea is to focus on Cyan's level 6 and 7 techs? Not the worst plan, I suppose, though if that's the case, I think the best team for it would be Cyan, Celes, Gau, and Gogo. Mog's Dances just aren't very impressive come late game (though he is VERY tanky, so there's that), and Umaro just isn't impressive at all, period. Perhaps have it so Gau uses offensive Rages while Gogo uses defensive ones (i.e. something that heals the party). Might work out ok while Cyan charges.

>>11823079
The returners are the *underground* resistance.

With that said caves have been the most generic dungeons since RPGs exist. Dungeons and caves used to be the same thing, like if look at DQ1 all the dungeons are caves except for a couple of floors of the castle at the end, and then DQ2 for its marketing made a big deal of saying "We have dungeons AND towers!" meaning caves and towers.

>>11818765
Great post. Ff6 went overboard with the characters at the end but there kinda of post make me feel redemption

>>11823895
I just wanted some extra options and Umaro is kind of a beast in the arena when the instant kill stuff doesn't work for Shadow/Setzer/Gogo. He has multiple powerful relic setups that require zero effort. Mog also has Snow Muffler/Dragon Horn/Dragoon Boots type setups although you do want to spam Dances until they fall off as you said. Celes, Gau, Mog, Gogo are all pretty varied in what they can do both in stat, ability, equipment setup and you get a lot more use out of Celes Runic ability with the Berserkers/Cyan.

Jacking off to retro video game characters is not related to retro video games.

Can you tell me about Gau? I only played the remaster, but in it he’s basically gone for 1 battle then comes back knowing like every enemy move in the game. And some how he still kind of sucks. Is he as useless as he seems? I never figured him out.

>>11824527
If you want to be completely brain dead with Gau - right before you get to the waterfall jump into the Veldt the first time there is an encounter with a cat monster called Stray Cat. Fight and beat the cats then immediately go leap off the waterfall. If you do it right and then recruit Gau quickly you can within 10 battles have Gau Leap the Stray Cat formation to learn it's Rage which has a ridiculously powerful physical attack called Cat Scratch which will allow you to do 4x damage (effectively around 1000 damage when everyone else is doing maybe 300 at best) on every enemy for the rest of WoB. And more if you focus on building his vigor up - it's a physical version of Bum Rush essentially but you get it right when he joins at the beginning of the game.

Otherwise Gau can do a ton but he requires using your brain and learning/memorizing what all the different enemy rages can do. His stats are very good across the board and he can wear the Snow Muffler which is the best armor in the game. Later in the game he can get the Impartisan to work with several relics to buff the damage of certain Rages.

>>11824547
oh sick thanks! gau was the weakest character for me on my play through. is gau or relm supposed to be the blue mage? they seem both like 50% blue mage. I wish relm was just ff5 style blue mage… and gau was just a regular beserker or something.

>>11824567
No that's obviously Strago. Although Gau is a blue mage of sorts in a way. Gau is frankly a much more interesting Berserker. Umaro is the actual Berserker but I like him too just for being a smart take on the class - by being a late game monster character that joins with the best armor, good stats/attack, he has immediate use in the Arena, Cultist Tower, Kefka's Tower, Phoenix Cave as a quick squadmate to shove on a weaker team. Relm has uses for very specific tasks like using Control for the Dinosaurs.

>>11824578
lol ohhhh ya cool! i’m a fool. also thanks for the posts im excited to replay ff6.

>>11824374
The way I would describe Umaro is certainly as the "zero effort" character (Sabin is close to being one as well tbqh lol). But the truth is, WITH some effort, everything he can do, others can do better. Even as a Coliseum brawler, Gogo can outmatch him. Stick a Merit Award + Offering + Illumina + Paladin Shield + Force Armor setup on him (your choice of helmet), then fill up all his command slots with Fight (the Offering is to offset the fact that Illumina loses its crits without a Magic command, though you could do away with it and get random Pearl casts instead), and not only does he hit about as hard as Umaro at around the same level (and that's with Umaro's max damage setup, which is a Gauntlet + Hero Ring while in the front row), but he's almost invincible on top of that.

>>11820178
Calm and mellow song ruined by the sound of a bagpipe played out of a jewesses asshole.

>>11818757 (OP)
Why doesn't she have her own natural magic list like Terra and Celes? I get Strago not having one since he's older and his strength is in Blue Magic, but I don't really see a reason why the young and energetic magic child can't throw down a few spells under her own power. Heck, they could have given her Thunder to round out Terra's Fire and Celes's Blizzard.

>>11825550
Most likely, if they even thought about it, they figured it's unnecessary since by the point you get Relm you're awash in Magicite, and you can teach her the essentials rather quickly. Natural Magic only made sense for Terra and Celes since you get them before Magicite is a thing, and they are likely to pick up some spells before that point, possibly even their level 2 spells depending on how hard you level, but beyond that it's unlikely you'll get their high level spells through natural learning rather than through Magicite.

>>11825550
I've thought exactly the same. It's not like there aren't Thamasans who don't use "normal" magic. We've seen it done at least twice. If the magic used during the burning house bit is ice (not blizzard, whippersnapper) and not some special magic, then there are at least five different Thamasans who can use "normal" spells.

>>11825550

This is an interesting idea for us knowledgeable types, but for practical play it's unimportant IMO. The point that Relm should seem to have native magical ability is well taken, but the way that this is implemented in the game with Terra and Celes is very scattershot: Terra has Cure, Antdot and Fire in the very early game (Antdot becomes applicable with those early scorpion guys and that plant guy in Mt. Koltz), and Celes has Ice, Antdot (IIRC) and Cure in the very early game. Those are the only relevant early-game spells. Their "natural" spell learning is largely obviated by the Espers. On my last autistic play-through I actually taught Terra Ultima solely by leveling her to 99, but this simply isn't practical or useful for the person enjoying the game on a more casual level.

Think about Relm's timing throughout the game. She's the last main character introduced near the halfway point, she's in the party for a bit, and her special isn't great. Then she goes away for an extended period until you build a party strong enough to get her back toward the middle of the back half, assuming you know exactly where to go, or just explore enough. The natural spell growth of both Terra and Celes makes sense in the earliest stages of the game, but their later learned spells are meme stuff, more naturally learned by espers. It makes sense to think that the programmers just assumed that everyone's using Espers around the point that Relm comes on the scene, so that they didn't gift her with native magic learning via leveling.

Drain in particular is interesting on this point. I've never used it much, but maybe it has some good applications. IIRC only Terra learns it natively, and at a low level, 18 or so. The only other way to get it is via the 1x Ifrit learning. It's a sort of special "Terra's spell". She just gets to have it early on whereas everyone else has to bust their ass to learn it. Maybe a clue to me to have Terra cast it sometime.

>>11826206
As someone who never really used it, on paper, it should actually be a pretty solid early spell for Terra, especially since she gets it at level 12, which means (unless you're autistic like me about leveling) you should have it by the Narshe battle. It's almost twice as strong as Fire, although IIRC it only deals damage if she's hurt in the first place, and at low HP levels it probably won't ever deal its full potential damage as a result. After you get her back, well, I can see it still being useful sometimes, but I think she'd rather use the level 2 spells instead most of the time.

>>11825550
>>11826206
Isn't magic supposed to be a forgotten art? Characters only learn it because of magicite, Terra is an exception being of her esper roots (and other characters are surprised when she first uses it), and iirc wasn't Celes artificially implemented the magic?

I don't know how this ties in with Strago's blue magic but I figure it doesn't really count as magic

With that said innate magic for Relm could have made sense in the story too due to her upbringing and story.

>>11826454
Thamasans are descended from the Magi of old, who used Magicite to learn Magic, and though their Magic power has weakened over the centuries since the War of the Magi, they are still able to use it. That is why Strago and Relm have the power they have, and it's why they ought to naturally have some Magic spells, same as Terra and Celes.

>>11826468
>it's why they ought to naturally have some Magic spells, same as Terra and Celes.
Would be cool, but I think having Sketch and Lore alone as the types of magic they inherited from their ancestors is neat in its own way. I imagine the Thamasans don't have equal magic ability or potential, some naturally learn things like Cure magic and others don't.

>>11826482
Also because that makes them seem more like ancient or natural forms of magic, something that doesn't match anything you find over the course of the game otherwise.

relm is so powerful she can brick your cartridge

https://youtu.be/fgX6Qki6s4g

>>11827119
FF6 doesn't have auto-save. That's what causes the bricking in DKC2.

>>11827125
no it can corrupt SRAM data to the point where the cartridge is bricked

>>11827128
Is there any video of someone doing this?
I've seen sketch bug on both console and emulator, and corrupted the game on emulator (not going to do that on my real cartridge), but that's different.

>>11827132
it runs arbitrary code so it can do things like give a character a tool for a helmet or in a worst case scenario create unloadable save data look up a task where they use it to get stuff

>>11827147
*tas

autocorrect reeereeeeerrwq

>>11827147
I know it can corrupt a save file, but that's different than bricking a cartridge (making it unable to start a new game). I know that can happen in DKC2.

>>11825147 here, I actually went and explored this a bit further. Turns out Umaro is even more flawed than I realized. The Gauntlet does help his basic bitch physical attack, but it does nothing for his tackle attack, which is the stronger of the two. Now, he does the basic attack most often (unless you equip one of his unique Relics), so what you may actually want on him is the Gauntlet and Offering. Alternatively, you can give him the Rage Ring so he does the stronger tackle attack more often than the basic attack, and give him a Hero Ring or Atlas Armlet to boost that damage further. I'm not sure which option is stronger on average. What I do know is that both options don't leave Umaro with much protection. Granted, his physical defense is very high, but it's not perfect (especially since he has to be in the front row to do good damage), and he's much more vulnerable to magical attacks (the Snow Muffler does absorb Ice and resists Fire, but that's it). He's completely fucked against status ailments and Instant Death unless you give him suitable relics, and doing so diminishes his attack potential substantially. You may be able to hit a balance depending on the enemies you fight, of course.

Gogo, meanwhile, with the setup outlined above, is almost invincible. He will evade almost all attacks and will absorb every element, so the only attacks he needs to fear are non-elemental, unblockable, defense-ignoring shit like Step Mine and HyperDrive, which can fuck anyone regardless if you're not at a good level. I also came up with an alternative setup, which trades out the Offering for Dragoon Boots, which lets him keep the random Pearl casts and also increases his damage by quite a bit overall. Either way, he still more or less keeps up with an Umaro optimized for maximum damage while being far, far more protected. The downside is you need the Illumina, of course, and I know not everyone likes to get it.

>>11820594
>What was their grand plan, buy two or three model airships and a robot imp?
lmao I wasted so much time trying to buy 1/1000th airships and robot imps.

>>11827128
The first time I did that, it didn't brick the game (and I doubt it actually could) but it froze the game and deleted all my saves. Here's the weird thing: when I started a new game, I had a bajillion dirks, ragnaroks, gem boxes etc in the new file, which really shouldn't have been possible. I just chalked it up to my cartridge being special since game genie codes didn't work on it. This was better than genie stuff, starting the game with all that shit.

>>11827357
Likewise. I didn't know about Cactrots yet, so I tried to get a million GP by selling literally my entire inventory, all for naught.

>>11826468
I kinda disagree with Relm and Strago learning magic naturally. I always took it as the decedents of the Magi had the potential to learn magic, but still needed to actually learn it (either from another magic user generationally, or alternate means like magicite or blue magic in Strago's case.) Essentially if the events of the game never took place and Thamasa stayed secluded, I always assumed Strago might learn a handful of lores in the rest of his days, while Relm would be taught some magic either by him or the other villagers. I just kinda took it as a coming of age thing to be given the responsibility of being a "recordkeeper" for the magic that has been passed down over the years, especially considering the hate they feared from the rest of the world.
The other 3 were either infusion experiments (Celes, Kefka) or actually magical (Terra and the espers) and are IIRC the only 3 main characters in the story that actually LEARN magic naturally and before magicite is introduced into the picture. Other "magic" abilities like some blitzes or Banon's healing seem to be intrinsically different from "magic" as a concept in the story, with the only real exception being strago's lores (which he starts with 2, despite his old age, so it would make sense they would come from experience rather than latent.)

>>11827743
I really, really think it's as simple as "we're not gonna give them natural Magic because we already have two characters who do that and they can learn through Magicite anyway". Nothing in the game suggests the Thamasans' Magic is any different in nature than Terra's (who instantly recognizes their power as that of Magic once she witnesses it), or that they're not born with it. Even Relm suggests she can use Magic when she asks Strago if the strangers can use Magic "too". All we're told is their Magic power has weakened through time, but that some still remains. It just so happens they can also use their power to do more unconventional things.

>>11820979
NTA, but I tried to find this and failed. Could you help me more, please?

>>11829135
https://warosu.org/vr/thread/11111648
This is the second-to-last part, and it has links to every part before it. The very last thread is here:
https://warosu.org/vr/thread/11254654
It gets messy at points due to trolls, but for the most part it's coherent.

>>11829180
Thank you very much.

>>11820979
I remember that thread
>PEDO
>SIMP
>MOG
lol I remember that one

>>11830771
For me, it was the Fanatics' Tower run with no Life 3 and Umaro on the team.

>>11824547
If you want to be completely brain dead with Gau in WoR, get Rafflesia/Nightshade. 100% success rate charm, even on bosses - no enemies are immune to it. Can make Kefka kill himself.

>>11831398
Nightshade is a bit harder to get at least, especially since there's only one encounter with it in the game. Also Charm is just lame. If I'm going to cheese the game, I'd much rather do so with a flashy spell that produces big dopamine-hit-inducing numbers.

How should Edgar correct this brat?

>Edgar: "Relm is a woman who could have been a mother to me"

>>11833675
The original daughtermommywife.

>>11832140

I did a deep dive on Gau's hard-to-get rages, and on his entire Veldt encounter set, on how to make completing it as painless as possible/minimize the suck. Pack 37, where Nightshade is, is one of the more "interesting" packs, as it contains four unique encounters which are easily managed and isolated (Although 2xDahling is a prerequisite to Still Life). Since Nightshade is just outside the beginning of the Owzer's House dungeon basement proper, the player can easily clear the encounter, return to the Veldt and play until the middle of the sequence for a guaranteed Nightshade encounter. The completionist's best strategy is to simply clear the four unique encounters, while avoiding the other Ebot's Rock encounters (some resetting/"cheating" can be used here). The other encounters are non-unique/have other options and therefore should be saved for later.

Similarly, I isolated Io in an early pack by carefully managing Imperial continent encounters during WoB. At the time that I actually got Io, it had only one other competitor: the 1xFossilfang, 3xBug formation, which is also in the same pack.

>>11831320
His name is SNEEZE

>>11834015
Are you the lv 99 autist that made a shitload of ff6 charts last year? If so, keep up the good work, it’s more entertaining than a 4 hour video essay that’s for sure

>>11834075

Yes. :^)

Here, We see what truly optimized, "perfect" stats look like. In practice you can never get Vigor/Strength this high (this look assumes that you spend every leveling event, starting at level 2, on max stat boosting, impossible in practice), but it is straightforward to get everyone to 9999/999 HP/MP, top out (or nearly top out) everyone's magic power, which is commonly agreed to be the most important stat, totally ignore stamina, the least important stat, and then spend you remaining time on speed and vigor as you wish.

I have come to believe that 40 speed for everyone is a good place to end. It's a nice round number, it's achievable for everyone, and it brings everyone up to Locke's decently fast, but not crazy fast level. Then you spend your remaining time on Vigor for everyone. In a past playthrough I didn't understand the relative importance of stats, so I (incorrectly) equalized their numbers for everyone, thus wasting a lot of time. I also wasted time ensuring 9999/999 for everyone, since I didn't understand optimal zones for boosting HP/MP (which requires only 6-8 events/levels per person if you know what you're doing).

The only way to improve upon this is to play a strict LLG, but even I start to lose interest at such a prospect. I enjoy playing for completionism, collecting all items, rages, etc. And of course, there is absolutely no practical need for it (further stat boosting).

>>11834145
I personally would prioritize Vigor over Magic for characters who are natural fighters, though a case could be made to not completely max it out, as some characters' ultimate setups increase Vigor, so that could be taken into account. For example, Locke's dual Atma Weapon/ValiantKnife combo is often paired with the Genji Armor and Red Cap, which give him +9 Vigor, so he'd be fine staying at 119 Vigor so as to reach the max 128 through the equipment. Likewise, I could see this done for Cyan for his dual Tempest build. But that's just me.

>>11823095
She has an impressive rack for a ten year old.

After playing the Japanese mod T edition I can’t never go back to the vanilla game again

It’s so good and definitive edition of the game. Makes it as difficult as a saga game

>>11834642
Have you played through it again with New Game+? I tried it out to see how far the ridiculous endgame equipment and having access to every spell and Esper would get me without leveling. I don't think I actually gained any levels until I tried taking on Bahamut. I believe I ended up beating it at around level 42, whereas I had to get upwards of level 60 on my first playthrough.

>>11834145
Rule 1: Won’t forget Relm
Then I need to find all this information and preserve it since I’m in the middle of my FF run right now. It’s in the archive I just can’t remember where. I always searched for “FF6 autism” and eventually found it. If there is also an ultimate autism treasure trove for FF4, let me know.

>>11834781

Overall, I find guides.gamercorner.net to be the very best resource for those interested specifically in the original SNES Woolsey translation. Unfortunately, even it has wrong MP leveling totals, assuming that's the version under discussion (a different table was used for most later versions), but it's great for everything else.

My last go-around got started when I wondered about the topology of the final sequence in Kefka's tower and actually understood it, producing pic related. Then I did this very careful review of all item types, using above and other sources, basically figuring out which items are farmable or which are manifestly finite/unique. Then I actually watched and took careful notes on a charity run by the player Puwexil, who did a "basic completionist" run in about 7 hours.

Really basic tricks, simply use esper summons in the right spots, and USE RODS, especially right in the middle of the game, for easy boss kills. It's interesting how during the Air Force sequence, each of Ultros, Chupon and Air Force can be almost-put-down with a Fire, Ice and Thunder Rod, respectively. A nice elemental trifecta. But I insist on getting the ultra-rare X-Ether from that side-bit guy first.

>>11834781

Also, you may be interested, this was the old autistic thread (mine) from a while back.

https://warosu.org/vr/thread/10282818

>>11834961
Fun fact: Morphed Terra deals 9999 damage to Flame Eater at around level 20 by breaking an Ice Rod, pretty much the earliest point that you can deal that amount of damage without insane overleveling.
>>11834781
I like this guide myself. It autistically goes over the pros and cons of each character, and suggests very good setups for each:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/snes/554041-final-fantasy-iii/faqs/33792

>>11834968
That’s the one, thanks. Since you’re an internet celebrity and everything, can I ask if you could change one thing about the game what would it be?

>>11835020

The petty (and honest) answer is that no later version or redux was ever made in the first place. Woolsey was best, if buggy, and everything else has been a strictly monotonic worsening since that point. Especially good about the SNES version is the SHARP STING BZZ BZZ when you enter a battle encounter. the PS1 version softens this, thus ruining the effect. And then there's the delay based on how the the disc system operates, which ruins it more. Despite this petty take of mine, I am happy that large numbers of people have appreciated the game via other versions, and that it seems to live on.

The latter-day, softened, more detailed sprites look stupid IMO. The chibi Sabin, Terra, all of it. I prefer the mixture of small block sprites, with actual Amano-direct, pixellated "driver's licence" shots, which allow us to imagine the characters. This is all subjective and nostalgic, and one is free to reject my opinion, but, well, there it is.

With regard to actual gameplay, I have no major complaints. It's my favorite game for a reason. But one plot thing: Cid just stays on that horrible island! (because you're not meant to actually save him, for valid dramatic reasons). Still, couldn't they just bring him to Albrook? Jesus.

The various menu lists. It would be nice if you could have a completely full esper list, a completely full item list, and so on. But again you're meant to make certain choices, which I understand.

>>11835057
T-Edition makes it actually consequential to save him. You get a nice Relic for the girls from Cid if you beat Doomgaze, which also results in him expanding the house massively, and if you bring Locke and Celes along, you get a nice scene involving them at the cliffs up north.

T-Edition is great so far (I'm near end of WoB), nice change after replaying game normally a bunch. But even though the more challenging encounters and new bosses can be interesting to fight, I sometimes feel battles are less fun to actually play than the original. I don't love the extra charge time they added to so many moves. I get it's a way of balancing things, but it also makes everything feel slower. I end up using regular Fight a lot more in random battles just because it feels faster. Or there's optimal moves/strategies for most encounters, and I end up repeating those rather than playing around using different abilities like I would in the original. I imagine that becomes less of a thing in WoR, when more options open up.

>>11835098
Oh yeah, the WoR is an entirely different beast. You'll definitely be forced to think outside the usual "spam your best moves" routine for the tougher bosses, and to pay extra attention to your setups.

Little tip: if a battle seems like it's one of those you're not supposed to win, keep trying to beat it anyway, you'll usually get something good for it.

>>11823609
He must be stopped!

>>11835098
I thought T-Edition was outstanding up through the start of the WoR, but holy fuck does it become a horrific slog once you start exploring with the airship. I love a challenge, but it doesn't take long for the primary design element to become "fuck it give every boss shitloads of turns and moves that cause multiple status effects". The game showers you in OP equipment, and you'll need it just to scrape by. Fast forward and save states are required.

>>11837181
I, for one, liked that, simply because the original game was braindead easy. You just equip all the OP shit and spam your best moves, and you'll almost always win. With T-Edition, I actually had to choose my setups carefully, figure out what I could do to hinder or nullify what the boss can do, come up with a strategy, and execute the strategy without missing a beat. You could always go out and grind, of course, but the fun was in prevailing without doing so, and only a few truly difficult bosses forced me to gain some levels. And man was it exhilarating when I beat them.

>>11837206
It's very trial and error, which is horrific design. There are no hints to dig up anywhere. Just die to Ultima a bunch of times until you say "fuck it, might as well just mash attack since I'm gonna die anyway", and oh what do you know, this stops it from spamming ultimas for no good reason. Hope you played FF4 and remember how the wind fiend's mechanic works. It fully expects you to abuse ATB mechanics. Etc.

Especially baffling after the creative and interesting enhancements to WoB fights like Opera Ultros.

>>11837380
Are there any interesting character mechanics in T-edition? I didn’t get very far before losing my save. I remember Shadow had a special ability where interceptor would attack very often. I think Cyan had some new sword techs that made him a little bit more bearable, but I can’t remember the rest.

>>11837380
Eh, I understand if it didn't click for you. Some battles could indeed be frustrating, but the way I saw it, I just had to pay close attention to what the bosses were doing and not play recklessly. That said, I do believe I know which boss you're talking about. Yeah, that was kinda shit. Still, most bosses aren't like that, or at least have a vulnerability you can use to make them more manageable.
>>11838937
Off the top of my head:
- Shadow gets innate dual-wielding (though only if you equip one of his exclusive weapons in the first weapon slot)
- Cyan's Bushido bar loads twice as fast and he has better techniques overall
- Gau no longer needs to Leap in the Veldt to learn Rages and can learn them just by defeating monsters anywhere
- Relm's Sketch doesn't suck as much and, where it would miss in the original, it instead does a decent attack where she summons Interceptor
- Mog's Dances no longer berserk him: instead, they just randomly do one of the Dance's moves. You can later get a Relic that replaces Dance with a command that only uses the rare, more powerful animal attacks each Dance has
- Umaro can actually be controlled and equipped now, though he will still sometimes unga bunga and do a random attack instead.

>>11835082
>T-Edition
Izzat the one where you can save Leo, the post-Lete triple path is considerably improved and has a hidden character you can access through a fetch quest?

>>11840245
That's Divergent Paths, I think.

>>11840258
Ah, yeah, that makes sense. Never played T-Edition, then.

>>11823687
No wonder it looks good.

Playing through T-Edition again, and I couldn't resist.