I plan on playing this soon but I just don't see how a low res squashed, black and white, weaker than an NES, only two buttons game that is frankly ugly, could ever somehow be better than LttP.

There is only so much you can do within the constraints of such incredibly weak and limited hardware.

You're saying the NES had more than two buttons?

>>11826968 (OP)
LttP is far better, the dungeons, artstyle, combat, bossfights, overworld are far better.

It's mostly just zoomers who form opinions from cringy "video essays" calling LA better

This very same thread was up yesterday, still.
And with the same try hard fags >>11826973 that state objectively false claims to try and fit in with the reddit/metacritic score he has been told to venerate.

>>11826968 (OP)
It's just le quirky reddit game for Undertale fans with "deep" youtube bait story for creepypasta zoomers.

>>11826968 (OP)
>There is only so much you can do within the constraints of such incredibly weak and limited hardware.
What fucking bullshit is this? There's no way anyone who actually played it would be saying this. In terms of both core gameplay mechanics and art/atmosphere it's clearly much more refined than the games that came before. This isn't even to say that it's a strictly better game than LoZ/AoL/LttP all together (as its low difficulty is a comparative weakness), but the devs who created it handily made something that felt better to play than the games that came before it, learned from them, and advanced on that, and this became the basis for how the series would operate from there on more than the prior games were. The Oracles specifically just copied its mechanics because they were so good there was no reason not to, and atmosphere wise it blew its predecessors out of the water, and showed how storytelling and music could be naturally made an integral part of Zelda in a way that just fits it, which OoT, MM WW etc. followed up on. It also greatly refined the puzzle and questing mechanics of the series beyond what came before.

>>11826971
LttP didn't even use more than a single item slot. OP is a troll, regardless of if this was the intention.

>>11826968 (OP)
It's subjective, like all kinds of things, but I really like how LA gives you two item slots to work with, and then gives you jumping and what not. I really like the jumping, it's great, I primarily run around with the sword in one hand and Roc's Feather in the other.

Not that I think ALTTP is by any means a poor game, I've played it even more than LA.

>>11827006
>LttP didn't even use more than a single item slot
Like anybody ever unequips the sword in LA barring required use of the boots/feather super jump or other niche scenarios.

>>11827018
Once you get the wand you barely need the sword.

>>11827031
By the time you get the wand, the game's almost over anyway.

I've come to the conclusion that basically all Zelda games are deeply flawed and I like them for what they had the potential to be rather than what they are. I don't know if I've ever actually enjoyed playing through a dungeon in these games. It feels like a chore I have to do for a cookie so I can get back to the "good" part. At the same time, shit like BotW isn't a proper answer because it becomes open world schlock with no sense of direction or focus. Why couldn't they just once make a game with the dungeon flexibility of Zelda 1, narrative structure of ALttP, more focus on combat encounters and actual brain teasers instead of braindead puzzles and one-shot enemies, and rupees/rewards that aren't meaningless, while still tempering the experience with some narrative structure? I don't want a "you can go anywhere" game, and I don't want a "le story..." game, I just want one with a proper mixture of both.

The constant "THIS is the good one, guyz..." just misses the point. They all fuck up something so major that trying to sift through the shit hardly matters. The concept of a cool little elf kid exploring pastoral highlands looking for treasures and fighting goblins is a timeless concept with natural appeal that seems too difficult to fuck up, but they fuck it up anyway. I maintain that OoT is the only legitimately good game in this series because it came the closest to being the platonic ideal of what Zelda should be. Even then, you have to play with self-imposed challenges to get any difficulty out of it, to say nothing of the constant hand-holding in the first act.

I just want OoT: Zelda 1 Edition, and I'm still waiting on it. Until then, none of the shape sorting matters because they're all jagged.

>>11827056
>I don't know if I've ever actually enjoyed playing through a dungeon in these games. It feels like a chore I have to do for a cookie so I can get back to the "good" part.
I don't actually disagree with you here. Dungeons are generally the weakest and most overpraised part of the series and seeing people highlight them specifically over the other elements of the games seems weird given how limited they typically are. This isn't the case for, say, LoZ specifically, as that game had them be proper gauntlets that complemented the overworld and made that work well, but in most of the series they're absolutely dull compared to all the interesting things going on in the overworlds which let you progress and unlock various aspects as you go through them.

>I maintain that OoT is the only legitimately good game in this series because it came the closest to being the platonic ideal of what Zelda should be.
>I just want OoT: Zelda 1 Edition, and I'm still waiting on it. Until then, none of the shape sorting matters because they're all jagged.
Why else do you think I'm putting effort into modding the game to be as close to this as I can get it? I still think it's better than any other game released in its original form, but you're right that there's unrealized potential across the whole series.

>>11826968 (OP)
>game that is frankly ugly,
looks better than alttp

Because it is an opinion. Many people prefer the more compact adventure, more emotional story, more characterful npcs, and more wild mechanics (like jumping).
LttP has some things going for it, but it is a very sterile feeling game.

>>11827091
>Why else do you think I'm putting effort into modding the game to be as close to this as I can get it? I still think it's better than any other game released in its original form, but you're right that there's unrealized potential across the whole series.
I wish you the best of luck in that endeavor, and I'll try your mod if you ever finish it, though I can't help but think it's a bit of a fool's errand because you could spend all of that time making your own original game in the vein of Zelda instead of just making something that'll be a footnote. That said, OoT has such a rich set of tools to build off of that I can understand why you'd rather start with a framework than start from scratch.

Quite frankly, that's what I'd like to see more of: a blatant copy of Zelda that no less tries to fix its flaws and while having a personality of its own. Alundra on PS1 tried this (and I'd say it's the best 2D "Zelda" ever made), but even then it fell into a lot of the same traps. If somebody can make a 3D Zelda-like without the pitfalls of "it's le heckin' loveletter!", they'll find success.

>>11826968 (OP)
If your gauge of the goodness of a game is based on hardware specifications, then I would recommend visiting /v/, because /vr/ might now be your speed.

>>11827091
I think most people who prefer LttP prefer the dungeons. The dungeons, combat, and challenge are a huge aspect of the appeal. The overworld just feels like a breather and nice change of pace from the dungeons, the meat of the game.

Also LttP is basically a near perfect game outside of some minor nitpicks

>>11827160
>That said, OoT has such a rich set of tools to build off
This is more or less why I'm taking this approach. In principle, making a game 'from scratch' is purer and offers more flexibility and less baggage, and is exactly what I'd want to do if I actually wanted to create something original. But that isn't what I'm currently aiming at, because OoT is just so much greater overall than anything I could pull off myself as an original work, though I am confident I can take the game as is and enhance/fill in/expand parts that weren't done to their full potential. This is hardly trivial and I'm constantly having to make all kinds of interesting trade offs that I often didn't initially anticipate the need for, the game is just so tightly designed that certain things I'd thought would be clear improvements frequently end up breaking some other aspect of its design and making that inferior. I can really see the game being better than it is, but I feel I need to hold my own ego in check and really respect what the game does to pull something like this off properly.

I don't want to make a ROMhack that transforms the game into something else with a new campaign and all that while keeping just its main mechanics, because so much of what makes OoT exceptional comes from how so much of it is crafted to play into other things, and just reusing it as is to create a 'new adventure' seems like it would feel cheap. Some genuinely good hacks exist despite this, but none of them feel like OoT does or offer what it does as a total experience, and I'd rather 'cheat' by taking advantage of that.

LA is too easy and the dungeons are boring. LttP wins easily. Challenge runs and randomizers just show you how fundamental and timeless the gameplay is, while LA is just a one and done.

>>11827160
Not retro but 3D Dot Game Heroes is the best Zelda clone.

>>11827241
Fair enough. You've probably considered it already, but if there were just a few simple things you could do to vastly improve the game, I'd say remove all dropped items from grass except rupees and hearts, double the size of every wallet, make items in shops more expensive, and make the fairy only restore 5 hearts. Also, get rid of the boulders leading into zora's river. It's crazy how much more nuanced and challenging the game would be if it weren't for a few retard-proof systems that constrain strategy.

>>11826968 (OP)
in the time you made this thread you could've started playing the game.
i like LttP better, but link's awakening is definitely a good game worth playing at least once.

>>11827262
I can't just play Zelda games through like that. I got a huge backlog I'm going through. Like right now I'm finishing up DMC1 and SMB3, then probably Cave Story and Chrono Trigger or Paper Mario. Then maybe Link's Awakening.

>>11826968 (OP)
>weaker than an NES
That's objectively untrue

So fucking sick of those self proclaimed zoomie experts who don't know jack shit and haven't played the game(s) they talk about

>>11826968 (OP)
>Great map.
>Your options to explore are constantly expanding outward and you're gaining access to new areas you saw but couldn't reach, or got teased with in other dungeons.
>Pretty much every dungeon is extremely solid as a whole and very well designed, especially the last three dungeons. The only annoying one is that skeleton miniboss one because of the constant backtracking.
>Trade quest is fairly intuitive, makes sense, and follows where you are generally exploring.
>You can stop what you are doing in the seventh dungeon and immediately go to the eight dungeon to clear it to get the Magic Rod which is one of the most fun weapons in the series because it's essentially a ranged OHKO weapon for 90% of the enemies.
>Roc's Feather feels extremely freeing and satisfying to explore with, especially when you figure out the synergy it has.
>Music is fantastic.
>Not too easy, not too hard, just right.
>Visually it looks great.
It's on par with the Oracles for the best Zelda games for me.

>>11826968 (OP)
Play it with a Super Game Boy.

>>11826968 (OP)
Better level design
Better music
More appealing story/characters/atmosphere/vibe

and this might be controversial but I genuinely believe it looks better. The simplified graphics work in it's favor because to be honest, even if you excuse the pink hair, Triforce of the gods is a pretty ugly game especially in terms of character sprites.

>>11827056
>I just want OoT: Zelda 1 Edition, and I'm still waiting on it.

Tunic is the closest modern day game to Zelda 1 in terms of game design and ethos.
otherwise the closest 3D zelda is gonna be breath of the wild.

>>11826968 (OP)
Not being aesthetically garish in game.

>>11826968 (OP)
Link's sprite's animation cycle in LTTP is fucking retarded. In LA it's perfect.

>>11827364
DEAR NINTENDO
TURN ZELDA INTO RAYMAN
INSTEAD OF A MAGICAL SWORD, ZELDA WIELDS A SLINGSHOT, SYMBOLIZING VULNERABILITY

>>11827398
Nobody even knows what the fuck you are talking about.

>>11826968 (OP)
Koizumi was involved and almost everything he touches is good

>>11827314
LA is a zoomer contrarian core game. Almost no one played or cared about it back in the day.

>>11827491
I do. The rate at which link moves it's legs doesn't match at all with the speed he's moving at. It's really jarring

>>11826968 (OP)
scrolling text boxes telling you that a clay pot is heavy, that you picked up a fragment of power and removing the run button

>>11826968 (OP)
i hate zoomers so much it's unreal. go play some elden ring faggot

>>11826968 (OP)
Soul
Movement
Pacing

>>11827056
>Narrative structure of ALttP
Huh

>>11827321
>pic
How retarded do you have to be to see this?

>>11826968 (OP)
I like the cute characters and the story was interesting when I was a kid before I got into OG sci-fi and fantasy.

>>11826968 (OP)
I started playing it recently and got stuck at the 2nd dungeon and gave up. Maybe it was fun back then trying a million different things to work out a puzzle and having to pause every few seconds to change equipment.

>>11827491
Lttp link jiggles too much. He's overanimated.

>>11827769
>got stuck at the 2nd dungeon
How embarrassing. Pols voice is the bunny thing. Stalfos are skeletons.

>>11827259
Every thing you've mentioned is something I've either done some variant of or was exactly what I was referring to when I was talking about "unanticipated tradeoffs".

>Also, get rid of the boulders leading into zora's river.
This is a real design "monkey's-paw". I had gotten rid of the boulders, and this does remove what feels like an unnatural constraint and opens up the early game, but once I'd done that I found I'd realized what the rocks being there genuinely adds to the experience and how much structure gets lost when you just delete them.

Two thing that really stood out to me replaying the game were:
a) How satisfying it is to finally get the bombs and how much you can suddenly do once you get them.
b) How awesome it is to access Lake Hylia for the first time, however you actually get to it.

Just yeeting the rocks out of the game really destroys the significance of these things. You immediately access the bean seller and a few pieces of heart, on top of gaining the silver scale once you can play Zelda's Lullaby, by just waltzing up north. You can find an unnatural amount of skultula with the boomerang and access to all these otherwise blocked off areas, which potentially allows you to use the Giant's Wallet, and hence blue flame, to break bombable structures without bombs (one of those weird things normally only randomizer people care about, which has to now be accounted for).

Since I want to preserve the satisfaction of these things, I'm trying the following:
a) Placing the rocks so that they block off the elevated sections of the river area, but otherwise let you access the domain. By also placing the bean seller on a high cliff, you get a number of things that you have to come back with bombs for.
b) Placing a bombable pillar over the lake shortcut, so that players without bombs have to find some other way to get to Lake Hylia. Hence, a curious player can still complete Jabu-Jabu, but only if they discover how to get to the bottle themselves.

>>11827394
el goblina de zelda

>>11828181
Dios mios ...!

>>11826971
I count four, boss.

>>11827491
Zoomzoom

>>11827056
zelda isnt flawed you are. Youre the one trying to force a square peg through a round hole then concluding the round hole should change. Put down the square peg or use it in a square hole but whichever decision you make keep it to yourself next time.

>>11828192
Start and select were never meant to be used for actual gameplay. They were forced to more or less because not enough buttons.

Start and select were intended to start the game and select things on the menu. Totally archaic and redundant because you can use the d pad and a/b for that. But you can of course pause the game and some games ended up utilizing them so there's that.

>>11827031
>90% of the way into the game it's biggest issue is no longer an issue
wow what a relief

>>11826968 (OP)
>what makes it better than lttp
The fact I had the Gameboy game and not the SNES cart till I was 35

>>11829413
>biggest issue

>>11829497
>le haha u wrong
>le I'm not saying how though
go back

>>11829503
How the fuck is it an issue, you niggerfaggot?

>>11829507
>constantly switching between menu and gameplay to use necessary items because one of your item slots is burned on the sword at nearly all times
yeah nothing wrong with that
irony is I bet you have bitched about iron boots in OoT water temple before

>>11829514
Haven't played any of the 3D Zeldas.

>>11827031
The upgraded sword is way better than the wand.

>>11828192
For full intellectual dishonesty, you need to count the d-pad as 4 buttons on top of that.

>>11827056
>I maintain that OoT is the only legitimately good game in this series
A chore of a game to replay and Miyamoto was surprised when he heard many buyers didn't even beat it.

>>11826968 (OP)
Nothing, theyre both great games.

>>11826968 (OP)

The game is literally just a dream

Very sloppy

>>11826968 (OP)
I like it more. Nuff said

>>11829739
Retard, it has 5 buttons but 8 switches.

>>11826968 (OP)
Link's Awakening is what gave Zelda that deeper mythical atmosphere to it

LttP is too straight forward for the most part, its more like the original Zelda game

Link's Awakening is the missing link
The predecessor to Ocarina of Time and the rest that came after

It has a waifu, humor, and minigames. And a sort of 'vibe' to it. It isn't nearly as long and some prefer that.
I think alttp is significantly better. But I suspect this is why some actually prefer LA, but they won't admit it even to themselves.

>>11831726
>It isn't nearly as long
It is though, they have very comparable length

>>11827018
>Like anybody ever unequips the sword in LA
You should. The game is way more fun when you let go of the need to have the sword always equipped.

>>11826968 (OP)
It's tighter and shorter. In LttP you just wander around a lot until you find the thing you're supposed to be doing

>>11826968 (OP)
I don't like it
It's stupid and silly

>>11834916
You're stupid and silly.

>>11827321
Based.

>>11826968 (OP)
I like tropical islands

>>11826968 (OP)
Alttp's overworld just sucks so much

>>11826968 (OP)
>weaker than an NES
Fucking retard.

>>11835259
He probably also thinks the SNES has higher resolution than the NES