Thread 11846385

>let's put everyone into the roster
Unfathomably based.

Was this just the logical conclusion for fighting games?

I find SNK's commitment to a format for this funny because they did it all of one time, being dead as a doornail for the second time it rolled around and having to outsource it, and only having a third because they had to rush a product out the door to keep from going under, only to release the finished product later and nearly go under anyway.

>>11846394
Which one is the third?

>>11846398
Not retro, but XII. They billed it a Dream Match to handwave it having no plot, nor cogent teams aka an incomplete roster, which goes against the whole point.

>>11846405
What about Neowave?

Too bad they are all unbalanced and broken, or dead games (and I mean really dead, because you can't play vs fighters alone)

>>11846418
Hell if I know. Guessing because it isn't a mainline game, just a warmup for developing on Atomiswave. Which begs the question "why isn't it considered a mainline game," to which, hell if I know. Maybe because it breaks format and isn't a tag game like the game after 2003 was meant to be? But then the Ash saga abandons the tag format anyway.

>>11846424
I've been playing all of them for 25 years and will probably still be playing them for the next 25 years. No lack of people to play against in my area.

Rookie numbers

>>11846390
But how else can we sell DLC? Don't you want to buy the same character you just bought last game?

>>11846385 (OP)
>Be me.
>Love fightan gaems.
>Fell in love with them at the arcades.
>Spend years watching the roster size grow and grow. Happy that everyone was in at one point.
>Now you’re somehow lucky if you get 15 characters at launch
>Now you have to buy characters and wait years for them to arrive

I hate it

>>11847250
Its the problem with revising games and more recently live service games. You release 3+ versions of one game, adding content each time, then when you make a new game you're starting over.

>>11847227
Is that Armageddon and that alpha 3 pic is missing a shitload of characters, but pretty sure it didn’t make it past 50 like ur pic.

>>11847250
Back in the arcade days it took like six months to unlock every character in Tekken 3 since it was on a time-release

>>11846428
>just a warmup for developing on Atomiswave.
They claimed that, but the Atomiswave is basically a Dreamcast, and they had already made games for the Dreamcast.

>>11847250
Then:
>Cool Fighting 2
>Cool Fighting 2 - Special Edition
>Cool Fighting 2 - Special Edition ''Turbo #Reload
>Cool Fighting 2 - Ultimate Avenging Battle the Electric Challenge GX

Now:
>Titty Fighter 6 [FitGirl Repack +152 DLC]

Yeah I think things are simpler now.

>>11847250
You're genuinely a fucking idiot. Fighting game rosters are the biggest they've ever been.

>>11846390
Yes. Playing them for fun instead of competitively was the appeal too. Not that competitive play is a bad thing, far from it. But too many people cry about balance nowadays and companies try to make every game 'balanced' for e-sports and tournaments. If someone was unbalanced or broken, we didn't play as him or played a mirror match.

And yes assets were reused. They had to in order to get their money back for making them (Morrigan's sprites were used up to the late 2000's if I remember right).

>>11846390
It was the cheapest way for companies to make a 'new' game out of used up assets. Wonder why fighting genre went downhill at the end of the nineties.

>>11847713
>Street Fighter 6
>18 characters on launch
you were saying?

>>11847813
people have always played fighting games competitively! you're just a scrub who mashed buttons with his scrub friends! please read a book!

I played fighting games as a kid, but I wasn't an expert nor was I a diehard fan. But a fighting game having a hueg roster was an immediate draw, if only because all of the visual and gameplay variety.

I like a good 10 character maximum and two hidden characters.

>>11847985
>SF
2 heads
>SF2
8 heads
>alpha
12 heads
>SF3
8 heads

>>11846385 (OP)
TTT is such a nostalgic game, loved it back in the day

>>11848060
>MvC2
>56 characters
>23 years later, SF6
>18 characters
>Fighting game rosters are the biggest they've ever been.
>56
>23 years later, 18
>biggest they've ever been
>56
>23, 18
>biggest they've

>>11848081
>comparing different series
>comparing a brand new game to a game that's the culmination of Street Fighter Alpha + Street Fighter Alpha 2 + Street Fighter Alpha 3 + X-Men: Children of the Atom + Marvel Super Heroes + X-Men vs. Street Fighter + Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter + Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes + Darkstalkers + Vampire Savior

>>11848081
>56 reused assets from 8 different games
whaoooo

>>11848107
>no see here's why 18 is actually bigger than 56

>>11848112
Is that Mugen

Soul Blade PS1 is still the best fighting game

>>11847985
The most of any launch. Derp

>>11848081
MvC2 uses recycled sprites from their other games. It's just stand alone DL. Mugen-tier shit.

>>11848121
>>11848107
And even ignoring that it's all flipped assets, that's 1 single game you dumb nigger.

>>11848718
>Alpha 3: 25 characters
whoops! looks like you're wrong as fuck!

>>11848743
>3
OUT OF 10!

>>11848743
Alpha 3 is physical dlc, not a new game.

dumb nigger

>>11847227
I didn't like Armageddon
>Motor Kombat, shallow, boring once the novelty wears off, inferior to Puzzle Kombat and Chess Kombat
>Konquest is low budget and worse than Shaolin Monks, and not as fun as Deception's format
>lmao what fatalities
>2 styles downgraded from 3
>worse Krypt

>>11848861
>Alpha 3 is physical dlc, not a new game
literally the most retarded thing I've ever seen on this board

>>11848979
Armageddon is good, thoughbeit. So it's a problem with you specifically.

>>11848985
It's a fact. It's just an expansion pack.
So is 3rd strike, super turbo, etc...

The game is called street fighter zero. Zero part 3 is just physical Dlc. Cope you retarded nigger.

>>11849324
>I've never played any of these games but here's my opinion
lmfao. retard

>>11848985
>>11849369
alpha 3 is not a new game what are you talking about

>>11849324
>entirely new mechanics
>continues the story where alpha 2 left off
>le heckin physicorino dlc
kek based retard

>>11848861
>Alpha 3
I can go back and play any version of a game like Alpha 3 I want. Even the surprisingly decent single player focused PSP version that added a ton of shit. The recent collection has Upper on it, one that many people are much less familiar with, but also isn't even the final version.
>Street Fighter 4
I can not only play any version, but the last version includes the ability to play any iteration of any character from the previous versions, and even a bonus broken as fuck ex mode for fun.
>Street Fighter 5
The last version. Thats all you can ever play, so it will always just be one game. With older games even as late as SF4 you could pick and choose what point in the game's history you wanted to play. They were iterative but CvS2 is a perfect example of people preferring to play a specific version.
Also this thread inspired me to check, but CvS2 had 48 characters, a number SF5 still never got to even with all its DLC over the years :)

>>11849378
kek based retard

>>11849407
the whole point of this conversation is when companies make revisions to their games, which is what Alpha 3 is, they dont have to start from scratch and they get to add to the roster of the previous game (that has the same name). Trying to make some impassioned plea that because downloadable content didnt exist at the time that its actually a new game its completely pointless.

>>11849450
And yet none of what I said is untrue. There is a distinct difference between physical iterative revisions and actual DLC. Super Mario Bros 2 was iterative on Super Mario Bros 1, just with different levels but the characters/powerups/core gameplay mechanics are all copy and pasted. Capcom even famously reused assets in entirely different games, like the crossovers that have been mentioned in this topic (and the trash that hasn't, like Fighting Jam.) If your argument is that nothing can be both a new game and iterative then you are oversimplifying the entire evolution of the medium. Fighting games thrived in arcades for decades longer than other genres, even past the retro threshold in Japan. You're complaining about home versions of what was essentially the retro equivalent of the live service model, which actually respected the concepts of both preservation and community choice.
There were multiple companies that thought everything needed to be wildly different with every iteration. I'd take that in a fucking heartbeat compared to the current version pigeonholing we have now.
Third Strike is a great example, as the previous versions of SF3 were pretty bad for a lot of reasons, but there was some good in there which eventually made for a much better game (even if it took external sources for most 09ers to even try it.) If not for that particular version, it wouldn't have gotten half the appreciation people give it today.

I wish someone would make a MUGEN game with EVERY fighting game character ever made, even the ones that are super broken.

this will save the saturn

Huh? Zero 3 is not a revision, the last Zero 2 revisions was zero 2 alpha

>>11849516
Dont talk shit about megamix.

>>11849516
Put virtua fighter x fighting vipers together.

Massive sega library of characters they COULD of added as unlockables.
Add in these shit hidden characters.
People defend this and claim its AM2 stuff, who gives a fuck!? Its sega! They weren't being held back on who they could or couldnt add.
They picked this awful shit on purpose

>>11847986
I know that, but I'm talking today's 'competitive' scene, professionally for money vs. just playing competitively for fun.
>Scrub
But enough about your mama's pussy.

>>11847985
Ties with Street Fighter IV.

>>11849720
dont waste your time, they're too retarded to know the difference because they dont play fighting games

>>11849874
lol retard

>>11849845
competitive play was never just "for fun"! it was always about proving who was best, and yes, winning money! please stop talking like you have any idea what it was like, because you don't! you're just a casual scrub!

>>11849954
NTA but what the hell kind of larp is this? Even today competitive players make up a very small portion of many fighting games, especially shit like MK. There was always competition, and a lot of it was arguably better than what would come years later, but even in '09 muh fight money wasn't as big as it would become with the release of SF5. Before that most of the money came from shit like money matches at majors, and competition pools were minuscule compared to today if you weren't constantly hopping planes (and could even afford to actually do so.) Fighting games as a genre evolved substantially in both regards over the years, but it has always lived on the backs of casuals, and competitive beginners/intermediates who wanted to improve up to those levels for reasons other than money. For a lot of people it was just about getting to play people better than you so you could then get better. Best set I ever had in a newer KoF was getting obliterated by a former Evo champ from an older one. Took maybe a handful of characters off of him the whole time, but learning from matches with better players is better than money if you take the knowledge from it. And I'm a nobody.

>>11850000
You are an 09er at the oldest! You dont have a clue what it was like in the 90s! Keep your ignorant whore mouth shut in the future, please!

>"fighting games didn't used to be about money"
>literally cost money every time you lost a match
retards.

>>11850027
You didn't even know about money matches back then unless you were initiated, or knew someone who knew. The only money anyone knew about was the prize pool. There was no fucking twitter to post that shit on, People were there for everything that came with winning, or they were there to test themselves against the best from other places. Strictly focusing on money was not the core appeal at all for most people, especially since it required a larger investment the more you wanted to make. That was not the majority of people who played them by a long shot.
>>11850031
the quarters were the price of admission for a match vs a better player. It just strove you to save them by playing better. Being a broke ass literally made you focus harder on getting better.

>>11849324
Each one of the Zero games is an entirely different engine design.

>>11850092
>The only money anyone knew about was the prize pool.
yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about! try to keep up!

>>11849516
this is like if smash 64 had waluigi and geno and mario was completely absent

>>11849516
Imagine getting this instead of Virtua Fighter 3.

>>11850289
>source: my ass

>>11846385 (OP)
>No Yun and Ingrid
You fucked up.

>>11850361
You don't need more than picrel

>>11850361
Yun/Wang are two of the worst characters ever
>herro we ruv rap music
Worst kind of asian

>>11850514
>no r-ism
cowards

I really tried to like SF Alpha 3, but Akuma ruined the game for me.

>>11849954
You type like a tranny, kill yourself immediately

>>11846385 (OP)
I remember Tekken Tag and MvC2 having timed unlocks where you'd go to the arcade every week and a new character would be on the select screen. I doubt those were the only games that did that but they're the ones I remember.

>>11850737
Tekken 2 and Tekken 3 did that too

>>11846390
Alpha 3 actually did it in a canonical way, which is commendable.

MK: Armageddon did too but a) the actual story of the game could be summarized in like two sentences so what everyone was doing there was mostly irrelevant and b) the game's combat sucked.

>>11849379
It's dlc that recycles everything. This is what's sold as an expansion now, like ultra street fighter 4 and 5. Original game, with more shit on top, it's just an expansion. Dumb nigger
>>11849407
Having the extremely gay and autistic ability to play busted pre patched versions of the characters does not make them different games, in any whatsoever. This is just a feature that your autustic ass happens to like.

>>11849472
Zero part 3 is not iterative live super Mario Bros 2. It's a fucking expansion pack that recycles the whole engine and all of the sprites from the previous chapter. Cope and seethe you dumb nigger.

>>11850527
I don't think that was ever part of their character

>>11850514
You may not, but you still are gonna unlock Balrog and the Cammy clones anyway

>>11847250
I hate that every dev is concerned about balance, an unattainable thing, and hasn't just implemented random selects for online play and leaned into faggy main culture. Having a main in a fighting game is retarded.

>>11851850
You literally just described Mario 2, tard. Not Super Mario USA, actual Mario 2. Aka the lost levels. The only thing new it introduced was the ways it would fuck with the player, but it was still just a "physical dlc" of new levels for SMB1. Each Alpha series was a different game, and each iteration was a different version that played very differently if you were actually playing competitively.
>>11851931
It wasn't.
>>11851847
lmao. lol.

>>11849324
Sorry weebo faggot, this is an american board

>>11849324
>it's an expansion pack
>even though it doesn't require you to own any other games
Get a load of this failure lol

>>11852067
It depends. In casual play, I prefer to run the roster and always have more fun when others do as well. But once you get competitive, mains and pockets become pretty important, and a lot of matchups become how you deal with X character using the knowledge you have of Y. It becomes more about how to overcome bad matchups or take advantage of good ones, so it just becomes a different dynamic to improve with. The problem is when the top tiers are very well defined, MvC2 being the obvious example but even characters like Elena and Abigail have fucking ruined balance in newer games too, which then leads to needing to learn how to specifically counter them and boring, constant applications of that knowledge.

>>11852082
For a money match in an arcade, or for an in person tourney, sure go main vs main, thats Competitive play. For online I'd at least like a lobby that was random verse random, I'd even go as far to say that ranked matches should be random vs random with a tourney option for mains. You end up with online environments that are just a mix of the top 1/4 tier of fighters being all you see. And I hate that.

>>11852076
You bought the "game of the year edition" like street fighter iv arcade edition
except You didn't get the option of just doing the upgrade. you had to pay full retail for a fucking expansion.

That's worse you dumb nigger. Pure kike garbage.

>>11852071
Every alpha Edition was the same game, same sprites, and just a balance patch. Plenty of modern fighting games add new mechanics with each season. Alpha 3 is just a recycled rip off cheap ass physical dlc.

>>11852213
Honestly if you did something like that you'd kill the game faster than it would be able to build an install base. What you're describing should be relegated to a party mode, not ranked. If you prevent people from selecting specific characters, you inhibit their ability to actually learn cool shit with them. Half the fun of competitive play is pulling off wild bullshit that took you hours of practice before you would even attempt it in a live match. Random is only really good for competitive play when you're someone batshit crazy enough to know every single character in a game on that level, but your average player isn't someone like Justin who can do that shit in one game, let alone multiple. Most of the grind of learning a character is playing them consistently and seeing how different matchups are affected, forcing random makes that type of experience development near impossible.
>>11852216
You don't need Hyper Fighting to play Super Turbo. They are quite literally standalone carts. An expansion pack cart would be shit like Sonic & Knuckles.

>>11852224
>Every alpha Edition was the same game, same sprites, and just a balance patch.
completely false

>>11852224
>Plenty of modern fighting games add new mechanics with each season.
Oh so you're a fucking retarded zoomer, got it. Fuck off back to /v/

>>11852224
You have NOT played the Alpha series

>>11850648
I dont understand what's upsetting you! That's an incredibly rude thing to say to someone! Please work on your poor emotional control!

>>11852067
>Having a main in a fighting game is retarded.
this might be the dumbest shit i've ever read on this board.

On the subject of whether Alpha 3 counts as a new game or not: For what it's worth, it was effectively rebuilt from the ground up in different engine. All the frame data, hitboxes, physics and such are different.

>>11852291
no they aren't
literally everything is the same except they split CC into its own mode (V-ism) and added X-ism

>>11846390
for mk, trilogy definitely felt like the swansong. they really went full retard and just gave you everything. mk4 was very disappointing. mk3 was a bit too however umk3 was a huge improvement

>>11848979
i never even bothered with armageddon. it was the first mk i didnt play. unless you count the jax special forces game. i wasnt that into the 3d era even though i still played and 100% deadly alliance and deception. they just felt off and kind of goofy...floaty. gone was the sinister vibe that i think mk2 perfected. i just didnt need more of the 3d stuff and armageddon felt like a cash grab, which is funny considering i loved the hell out of mk trilogy which was probably much easier to make than armageddon was.

>>11852318
Are you me? Same thoughts desu. UMK3 and Trilogy were the peak. I wish they made the arcade version of Trilogy with arcade assets.
>>11852291
This anon knows. I wouldn't say the engine is totally different, more likely every Capcom fighter from the 90s uses a heavily upgraded variant of the SF2 engine but Alpha 3 framedata and gameplay are so different from Alpha 2 it might as well belong to a different series.
>>11852310
This anon plays youtube videos, not the games.

>>11852358
nigger I play alpha 2 and 3 on cab at my local every single week.

>>11852216
Faggot I bought alpha 3 when I was 14 in 2000 having never played alpha 1 or 2. It's not an expansion pack, it's own game. An expansion pack requires a base game, it's not a download or a physical content expansion pack. Words don't just mean whatever is convenient to your nufag arguement retard.

>>11852471
is street fighter 2 champion edition a completely new and separate game from street fighter 2 world warrior?

>>11852613
>is street fighter 2 champion edition a completely new and separate game from street fighter 2 world warrior?
Is it completely new? No, it uses assets from the previous title. That doesn't make it DLC or the your gayer know nothing term of "physical dlc" because you don't need the original to play it. That would be an expansion pack, which is something that did happen with ps1 games like grand theft auto 1. DLC or an expansion pack would require a base game, champion edition, the new challengers did not require a base game to play. They are seperate games you dumb faggot.

>>11852613
Yes. Ironically moreso than Rainbow Edition, since that is a hack that relies on CE and is a patch applied to it. And RE is fucking nutty. Here's some copy and pasted shit from a wiki because Im lazy
>After Street Fighter 2 success in the arcades, Capcom released Street Fighter 2' Champion Edition in the following year. Featuring new graphics, new sprites, new artwork, mirror matches, bug corrections, significant gameplay improvements and an overall faster pace, the title set the foundation to modern fighting games. However, the most important feature was the addition of the original four bosses as playable characters, which brought a new level of strategy and fun factor to the beloved series.
So basically tons of new assets, a significant increase to the roster, the introduction of fucking mirror matches, plenty of shit that was not present in WW and thats not even touching on the technical side. And most of it would become staples for the series from then on. So yes, you're retarded.
Let me propose a similarly stupid loaded question: Can you play Bison in WW? How about Cammy?

>>11852667
That's an expansion, dumb nigger

>>11852653
It has edition in the name. You're wrong, dumb nigger

>>11852653
>Is it completely new?
That's not the question, anon. Try again.

>>11852471
You bought the 3rd version of the game, dumb nigger.

I pirated oblivion game of the whatever edition and that had shivering isles included so that's actually a whole new name and not expansion.


just kidding, you're a dumb nigger

>>11852667
>Yes
wrong. It's the same game with updates and tweaks.
>Can you play Bison in WW? How about Cammy?
could you play as Sagat in SFV on the day of its release? How about Urien? Akuma? Balrog?
At which point did SFV become a completely new and separate game from itself?

>>11852701
>>11852703
>>11852704
>>11852706
>>11852707

>>11852398
You play A2 and A3 and you've never noticed the difference? How long you've been playing?

>>11852701
You're too dumb to live faggot.

>>11852704
Ita a completely seperate game midwit, you don't need to own world warrior to play champion edition.

>>11852880
He's never played anon

>>11853045
champion edition was offered to arcade operators ad a standalone cab or as an upgrade kit from world warrior
same as you can buy a sf6 plus all dlc or buy sf6 first then then dlc later
the sf2 "series" is not a true series of separate games and never was, it's just how balance patches and "dlc" were rolled out in the 90s

>>11853183
Wow faggot you might have a point if we were talking about arcade cabs instead of console ports. You didn't need world warrior to play championship edition on your sega or snes, which is why it isn't an expansion pack or a "physical dlc" which also would just be an expansion pack because physical downloadable content is a contradiction in terms

>>11852653
Is this gonna be the new thing around this boards? And DONT you dare to report this as spam or violating any rules, this is a legitimate question, is THIS goin to be the new thing around this boards, pointing it out among with the samey nature of threads what happens after the website got hacked?

Fake engagement? Jesus, I been on this board since 2010 and I see with my own eyes how forced everything feels .

>>11853767
Is what going to be the new thing on the boards? Zoomies not understanding old technology and missing words and or just flat out larping to fit in is as old as the NSO. Look at picrel, look at the anon calling alpha 3 physical DLC, people are desperate to prove their bone fides and helpless to do it convincingly.

>>11853819
>Deflecting hard

That ain't me silly junnie.

>>11846385 (OP)
Anyways, the updated versions of KOF98 and Alpha 3 happened because companies STILL had the source codes.

>>11852706
What you're still missing is that Zero 1, Zero 2, and Zero 3 are completely different games from a mechanical and gameplay perspective. They share the character sprites, and the basic moves and specials, and that's about it.

What you're saying is like saying Majora's Mask is just a DLC of Ocarina of Time.

>>11853828
>deflecting hard
You didn't even have a question to deflect from zoom zoom

>>11853840
According to the retarded zoomie anon any game that shares assets with another game is physical dlc because that anon is a retarded zoomie

>>11853840
>mechanical
Balance patch and ism gimmick. Nothing outside the scope of an expansion pack.

They're literally 90% recycled content, far lazier and cheapwr than majora, which also would just be dlc in this day and age. Dumb nigger

>>11853857
^according to this dumb nigger retro games had more characters at launch because zero part 3 had more than 4 part 1, ignoring that 4 got expanded editions also

Mugen vs Crapcom is trash btw

>>11854269
>Balance patch and ism gimmick
Incorrect. You don't know enough about these games to discuss them at this level.

>>11854281
Nah, I was there and you weren't. They're just expansions.

>Blazblue
>38 characters
>Street nigger 2
>12 characters


im so glad the arcades are dead.

>>11854269
>Majora's Mask would be considered DLC of Ocarina of Time

>>11854271
>according to this dumb nigger retro games had more characters at launch because zero part 3 had more than 4 part 1, ignoring that 4 got expanded editions also
I never said retro games had more games at launch. You called alpha 3's port physical dlc and that was not only a contradiction in terms, but a retarded statement.

>>11854461
He's talking about how you think games that use the same assets as previous games aren't new games. You've said so much retarded shit you're arguing with 9 anons.

>>11854520
Holy projection, you don't know who you're replying to anymore.

Zero 3 isn't a new game.

>>11854461
It's pretty much the same as red dead undead nightmare, far cry blood dragon, borderlands expansions, etc... They could have easily made shivering isles stand alone if it was the age before dlc.

>>11854509
This whole thread started with your gay nigger ass blabbering about how old games launched with more characters, using a fucking expansion as your example. Kill yourself nigger.

>>11854520
Wrong anon, I was bewildered by how absurd the claim was. I'm starting to think they think in some chaotic pattern where the concept of iteration automatically invalidates something as being unique.

>>11854461
Holy ESL!
>>11854571
Holy Autism!

>>11854563
>This whole thread started with your gay nigger ass blabbering about how old games launched with more characters, using a fucking expansion as your example. Kill yourself nigger.
I never said that anon, I said Alpha 3 is a distinct game from alpha 1&2 because it is. Then you started sperging like the low IQ retard you are. You can't even keep track of your arguments

>>11853183
Nta, but only CE and HF would count as DLC for WW as they ran on the same engine and hardware (CPS1), new challengers and ST are completely New games.

>>11854269
Alpha 1 has Darkstalkers' magic series links, that shit was completely removed from the next installments.

There is literally nothing wrong with how current fighting games handle post-launch support. It's what developers would have liked to be able to do back then.
Every actually new Street Fighter entry creates every asset from scratch unlike, say, Tekken.

>>11855629
Also, comparing a vanilla modern Street Fighter with Alpha 3 is unfair. Here's two fair comparisons:
>buying Alpha 3 and ONLY Alpha 3 vs buying a modern Street Fighter in its twilight with the entire roster available for 60$
>buying Alpha 1, Alpha 2 and Alpha 3 vs buying a modern Street Fighter at launch, and then every season pass (you can still play the latest version of the game without buying them).