DOOM THREAD / RETRO FPS THREAD - Last thread: >>11843790

Doom/Quake/Duke/Heretic/Hexen/Unreal/Sam/Half-Life/etc
Gameplay, WADs/Maps/Mods, Source Ports
All other 90s FPS welcome
~ Let's post like gentlemen ~

FAQ/GENERAL GUIDE
https://rentry.org/vrbin

SO YOU WANT TO PLAY SOME FUCKING DOOM
(or Quake, Duke, Marathon, Deus Ex)
https://imgur.com/a/wWS8zXz

Same thing, in video format:
https://youtu.be/ietb4JwaaXA
https://youtu.be/DhOjleMqwdQ
https://youtu.be/CGj4gXyCzg0

== GAMES/RESOURCES ==
DOOM Quickstart (IWADs etc): https://mediafire.com/file/wuniyrhsjjgq4y8
QUAKE Trilogy FAQ: https://pastebin.com/Ucb11XhU

PortaDOOM:
https://github.com/Kroc/PortaDOOM/releases
HALF-LIFE (GoldSrc) Anthology:
https://mega.nz/file/GRUCGbAY#RhOiqxnf7UPOiXcJNbRh-prKIEVRhjJaEpAkt34lyZg
4CHAN DOSPACK + Win98 games:
https://mega.nz/#F!3t8nzSIS!947kyMN6Z80f8HS7q2XlqA

Assorted /vr/ shooters, mods, etc:
https://mega.nz/#F!QXIk1bjB!NHRWGIfjcc77PyGgRlga4Q
https://mega.nz/#F!GtEQTISJ!CCJGyPEEEsZasc1PMXicUA

MIDI COLLECTIONS
https://files.catbox.moe/2hul76.zip
https://mega.nz/file/dWQ3SThI#qYcpa4eGQj6ElyRZgjGqszR59dh4Fq9D3qXYee54kZQ
https://archive.org/details/archiveteam-geocities-midi-collection-2009
https://archive.org/details/midiru-archive-2022-02-25.7z

== INFO/LINKS ==
OFFICIAL DOOM WIKI
https://doomwiki.org/

WHERE TO FIND WADS
Vanilla/Boom: https://doomworld.com/forum/4-wads-mods/
ZDoom: https://forum.zdoom.org/viewforum.php?f=19
/idgames: https://doomworld.com/idgames/

MODDING RESOURCES
https://forum.zdoom.org/viewforum.php?f=37
https://realm667.com/

== /VR/DOOM COMMUNITY ==
THREAD ARCHIVES
https://desuarchive.org/vr/search/text/"doom thread"/type/op/

OUR WADS/MODS
https://rentry.org/vrdepot

MAKING NEW THREADS PROPERLY
https://pastebin.com/8mDnrsrB

IMAGE/WAD DATABASE
https://vrdoom.booru.org/
https://clovr.xyz/wadsup/

MULTIPLAYER SERVERS
US West: https://clovr.xyz/
CA/US Midwest: https://macgu.fun/

=== CURRENT PROJECT ===
Duke It Out in /vr/
GAME : DN3D | DEADLINE : Jan 1st 2026
Tile/Con pack: https://files.catbox.moe/qns3f9.zip
Rules: https://desuarchive.org/vr/post/11835634

2048 Units Of /vr/ 2 : Insert Subtitle Here
Texture packs decided, but assembly pending.
Goal deadline of 2 months.

=== CURRENT RELEASES ===
/Vertex Relocation/
IWAD : Doom 2 | Format : Boom
RC3: https://files.catbox.moe/aoucg0.7z
Just about finished.

=== NEWS ===

[7-06] Updated Quake Injector V7 RC1, works with new Quaddicted database
https://discuss.quaddicted.com/t/quake-injector-version-7-rc1-works-with-the-new-website/8079

[7-03] DBP74: Phantom Processing is out now!
https://doomer.boards.net/thread/4043

[6-30] '95 Never Dies (finally) released
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/154000

[6-27] So You Want to Start a Community Project: a guide
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/153916

[6-25] Skulltiverse II, MBF21 project is open for submissions
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/153925

[6-22] Dimension Zero by Kurt Kesler and Chris Hansen
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/152284

[6-19] Quake 2 Remaster N64 Jam II announced (on discord)
https://desuarchive.org/vr/post/11811558

[6-17] Drake O'Brien Ovational Megawad released
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/153776

[6-17] Combustion by Fiendish
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/153768

[6-14] Duke Nukem Advance has a PC port in the works
https://moddb.com/mods/duke-nukem-advance-tc

[6-11] Doom 2 Minus Doom released
https://doomworld.com/forum/topic/153656

[6-06] Leaked Duke Nukem D-Day prototype build
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/11782748
https://archive.org/details/duke-dday-ps2-2001-06-04

[6-03] Chocolate Quake is a thing that now exists
https://github.com/Henrique194/chocolate-quake

=== PREVIOUS ===
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-vrTgPGmlLwdO5VHHCJMxmRD05E6XlNmqHIN8aykRG0
TO SUBMIT NEWS, REPLY TO THIS POST (ideally with the [MM-DD] date bracket)

>>11852619 (OP)
AAAAAIIIIIIIEEEEEEEE

i'm here to suck asses and shit cum, and i'm all out of cum

Crispy Doom is fun.

>>11852829
my to go sourceport for vanilla/lr stuff, I only wish it had correct monster counting tho

>>11852829
I used to use Crispy all the time, but then moved to Woof in more recent years.

Marshmallow Doom is rad

>>11852860
It's pretty sweet.

>>11852860
It really is pretty neat.

>>> CLASSIC DOOM CHALLENGE <<<

TENTANUS: MAP 02 by ZeMystic
Respond with a UV-Max demo; include your time in your post.

Current Record + Wad Download:
https://dsdarchive.com/wads/ttns?level=Map+02

Leisurely example demo recorded by me, cl2 uv-max in 4:06:
https://files.catbox.moe/z068o1.lmp

Previous thread winner (me lol): >>11848049

It's been 6 hours since the thread was started and the usual guy still hasn't posted another challenge, so I'm back. I think there are like 3 different anons making challenges(?). I picked Tetanus because it's a fun wad and it has lots of summery vibes. If you end up liking the wad, you should also check out Tetanus DX which adds some new textures and music.

>doom
more like dumb lmao

>>11853037

Name my band.

>>11853064
The Dario Casali project

>>11853064
The Gyattling Guns

>>11853064
Guns and Chains

>>11853039 test from windows xp professional

>>11852829
I use this port a lot. Weirdly enough it supports MBF sky transfers for some reason.

>>11853102
But no umapinfo :(

>>11853064
Spice Boys.

>>11853064
Pluforia.

>>11851896

Nah. I think he just got lucky that his "do random shit and see if it works" approach was thematically appropriate for those levels. The aesthetics and combat are not as good as E1 or E2.

For me, Quake is E2=E1>E3>>>E4.

I appreciate Sandy for thinking outside the box and trying to actually be a little more creative than just monster closets and key puzzles. It's just that ultimately, in the end, monster closets and key puzzles are what works best in these games.

>>11853025
UVMax 4:04 https://files.catbox.moe/m6z4zq.lmp

>>11853212
> quake > gzdoom > doom
can't believe we had that deranged source port war

>>11853204
>are what works best in these games.
What "these" games? Doom wads? Sure, but what does this have to do with Quake?

>>11853212
>Useless mad super sex released

>>11852620
Colourful Hell updated to 1.04
https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?p=1261371&sid=81677e30bf25fc9a98c3a764e9a81e94#p1261371

>>11853206
btw anybody wants to do a 2P run with me?

>>11853232

>>11853223

They are both games Sandnigger Peterberg worked on. If you didn't ahve such intense high functioning autism you might understand why that's a natural comparison to make.

>>11853212
>vanilla maps better cool

Based

>>11853204
>>11853267

>>11853329
The original post was talking about quake you illiterate nigger

>>11853334
It's an old pic, replace Doom 2 with Quake.

>>11853337

I actually didn't even mean to reply to you, it was for the other guy who asked "what does it have to to do with quake"

(or maybe that was also you but whatever)

>>11853064
Cock and Ball Torture

>>11853025
nice choice, Tetanus is such an underrated wad

>>11853358
>underrated
yeah, sure

>>11853102
>Weirdly enough it supports MBF sky transfers for some reason.
I think they did that because of it being a purely cosmetic feature. And there was already precedent in that MBF Sky Transfers had been erroneously supported in prboom's complevel 9 for so long that fixing it now would break too many wads, despite boom.exe itself having no such support. I believe vanilla complevels in DSDA and Woof support mbf transfers nowadays, too.

>>11853025
https://files.catbox.moe/flzr3o.lmp
died to the arch-vile in the yellow key area twice lol
>>11853383
oh didn't realize it was that popular
that's good it's a good wad

>>11853394
I think vanilla complevel in DSDA also supports UMAPINFO, though I guess that could cause desyncs in multi-level demos

>>11853064
Quad Machine (Gun)

>>11853405
Woof does, too. I think Crispy is the odd one out there, and one of the reasons why I retired it from my doom folder.

2048 units 2 status?

>>11853421
yeah there's not much reason to use Crispy these days

>>11853396
cool demo, just a simple linear walkthrough without the need to do cleanup

>>11853424
chopblocked

>>11853451
I started making my first map ever a week ago but then I felt i mapped myself into a corner and I abandoned it
https://files.catbox.moe/nfvsfx.wad

>>11853462
oh and my invisible wall is gone here for some reason, thanks slade

>>11853212
>actual shotgun nice sounds
>graphics whatever worth
>rendering software fix
>enough making demos
>properly consistent tiles
>practice specified sometimes
>generally megawad bullshit interesting
>accurate ironwail style mapping (bitch)
>fight anons hard
>read gz content
>end logic help

>>11853462
mean't for >>11853424

>>11853212
>Austism Might

>>11853220
Wait what happened?

>>11853487
people were bitching about gzdoom the whole thread

Why do I have to choose between 20th anniversary world turd and zoom platform if I want to buy duke... CURSE YOU RANDY!

>>11853493
Since there is no official way to get all expansions in their original form, you might as well sail the high seas, matey. Best way to play Duke is with eduke anyway.

>>11853424
Eleventh hasn't posted, right?

>>11853490
Makes sense, everyone knows GZ Doom is shit for actual Doom. It's probably shit in general too.

[7-08] Community Trunk RC1 Released
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/154134-community-trunk-32-maps-community-megawad/

>>11853525
Thumbnail looks like a kitty. Don't bother clicking it if you're looking for a kitty

>>11853025
>tentanus
UV-Fast 5:40 https://files.catbox.moe/82w7rh.zip

>the usual guy still hasn't posted another challenge
Sometimes I am not early enough to post the challenge first, so I appreciate you being gracious and giving other people a chance to post. I posted three in a row. I have more ideas, but I don't want to be greedy, so I'll let other people post for a while, since it is pretty fun to post challenges.

>>11853204
I remember E4 leaving a big impression on me when I played it a few years back. I'm going to see how I feel about it now because I do agree about episode 1 and 2 feeling equal in quality while episode 3 felt like a dip.

>>11853574
What is this?

>>11853504
For more than a week. Figured that anon was a dweeb and then went for cigarettes, Godspeed.

>>11853025
>TENTANUS
more like tinted anus lmao

>>11853079
based

>>11853394
Yeah, I noticed that Boom ports can have sky transfers in -cl2 and -cl3, its just kinda wierd that a port like Crispy which has no complevels would support it, but your explanation makes sense.

>>11853037
will id ever recover?

What does /vr/ think of scourge of armagon?
It seems to be regarded as the better of the classic quake 1 expansions.
I'm playing it right now and it's not blowing me away, but the higher enemy counts are fun in comparison to the original game.
The enemies/terrain/traps generally don't seem to be used as creatively, although there are definite exceptions.
Such as in my 2 favorite levels so far, HIP1M3 "The Lost Mine" and HIP2M2 "The Black Cathedral"
The mine was created by levelord and his contributions are high quality.

>>11853064
The Red Screen Gang

>>11853383
Totally organic thread view numbers btw.

>>11853462
Not bad for a first map, don't see why you abandoned it.

>>11853493
Nothing wrong with Zoom.

>>11853687
Stop noticing.

Doom SNES rerelease. They ditched the fireblu cart for the special edition and went for an adjacent blood splattered version.

>>11853504
I assumed he was just getting the texture pack in order.

>>11853493
>I want to buy duke
What's wrong with buying it from the zoom platform?

>>11853687
lmao
troonworld doesnt even hide their manipulation anymore

>>11853725
>a gimmick for a dead platform that produced nothing but e-waste for soilent green enjoyers
>the only person from the og days of iD is t*m w*llits
grim

>>11853715
>>11853726
Nothing, probably. I just wish I could buy it on gog or steam instead so I don't forget about it.

>>11853725
>Limited Run Games
Into the trash it goes, the carts probably set fire to your Snes.

>>11853617
D-Radys
https://files.catbox.moe/2xi7vj.pk3

>>11853797
Overstated issue.

>>11853775
>only person from the og days of iD is t*m w*llits
He's not at id.
Randy Linden is behind this release same as the original SNES Doom.

>>11853725
>limited run games
this is an actual scam company

>>11853829
Yeah Timmy Willits is Embracer's pet over at Saber Interactive, it's why he was the one saying that his credentials as an OG Doom dev allow him to say that Doom was inspired by 40k, all in an effort to promote that Boltgun game.

Of course it's all balls, 40k had next to no market penetration in America at the time, and Doom is well known to have started out as an Alien game.

>>11853809
>D-Radys
cool, thanks

>>11853835
They really hard at it too, and studios are too balls deep in bed with them to care.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvkZkgmpg2w

>>11853820
5 rupees have been deposited to your account

>>11853553

To be fair the combat holds up nicely, it's like Sandy understood how to use Quake's enemies pretty well (plus he gives you like 5 quads every level). But the maze-y confusing layout shtick is old by the third or fourth map and frankly, all of them are just plain the ugliest levels in the vanilla game.

>>11853687
Does Invision Community allow to alter view numbers?

>>11853870
>dive into the absolute hellhole
>wtf why is it confusing and ugly
I'm glad Quake was made in different times.

>>11853909
Not the last time I ran anything on IVB, at least not as a specific function anyways, it's probably possible if you went digging into shit but that's a lot of effort for something so pointless.

>>11853924
>durr it's just meant to be shit because it's hell!

No Anon, that's not a good excuse.

>>11853870
>all of them are just plain the ugliest levels in the vanilla game.
This is the only thing I'll mostly agree with so far, and even then I'm liking his use of shadows compared to all the other maps. Palace of Hate has been peak Quake for me, and I've enjoyed the way I've progressed through the levels. I'm starting to align with >>11851896

>>11853870
I replayed Quake a few days ago and was surprised how often E4 got me to use the Thunderbolt, even more than a lot of map packs. Usually you can survive most ambushes with the SNG while the Lightning Gun collects dust. Granted, it's partly because of how many spawns E4 uses, but still.

>>11853935
It is. Acquire taste.

>>11853961

In general it's annoying how most Quake levels, even modern stuff, saves the LG as a BFG type weapon instead of just letting you use it. Even when they recognise the issue with most Quake enemies being too spongy by adding a triple or quad barrel shotgun, the LG is still something you end up having to save exclusively for shambler ambushes.

>>11853963
>m-muh lovecraftian cosmic horror

It's a fair opinion, but I will refer you back to:

>he just got lucky that his "do random shit and see if it works" approach was thematically appropriate for those levels

Sandnigger absolutely didn't pull it off by skill.

>>11852620
updated the display in MAP08 so that the player can see the whole thing. each clause *display* takes up 64 units instead of 192 before, so the display is about as wide as the buttons
>ad9b32c (HEAD -> master, tag: map08-v9) MAP08: Minor fixes
>c8900f1 MAP08: Finish new display - 1/3rd the size
>6091e50 MAP08: Move them together
>ac5a0d9 MAP08: Before moving them all together
>615f48f MAP08: Make display uniform again
https://files.catbox.moe/8zgy8w.wad
I don't think I'll make any other changes to the map. the paper could maybe be updated to reflect this new, more usable layout. I'll see what I can do

>>11852620
[7-08] New official Doom pic
I saw all the recent threads about it and decided it makes sense to make a new version of the doom guide pic since it's been eons anyways. Obviously we have to change the version, so here you go https://limewire.com/d/PnRIH#W8PHBWwQYA

>>11853992
mindbroken by sandyBVLL

>>11853997
btw if anybody has any other suggestions - I'm open, let's do it.

>>11853982
The "sponginess" mostly comes from the original levels being picky with placing the most easily killed enemies, and nailguns or explosives with quad damage can shred through enemies anyways.

>>11853982
Oh yeah, forgot to post this in the last thread.

>>11851140
>>11851182
It's strange how Quake moved away from Doom monsters to much slower gameplay, yet there's not a single cyberdemon or even spidermind equivalent in Quake that needs shitload of ammo to be put down.

>>11853992
My opinion is still the same, Sandy did a great job, it's an uncomfortable and unsettling hellhole episode. And he didn't got lucky with his approach, his "approach" had a huge influence on Quake from the very start, most of lovecraftian shit came from him because he was the biggest HP nerd of them all, shitload of Quake visuals came from him, few monster designs including the most iconic shambler came from him.

His Doom 2 maps still range from good to questionable to holyfuckingshit.

>>11854024
>designs the game's most iconic enemy
>to this day insists it doesn't have fur

This tells you how mentally subnormal Sandy Petersen is, Anon. You are mistaking the finger paintings of a retard for Van Gogh because if you squint hard enough it might look like flowers.

>>11854034
Because it literally doesn't? I'm sorry your furry fantasies got crushed.

>>11854045
I'm reminded of electric eels when I think of the shambler. They're definitely not fuzzy, and some of my favorite renditions of him are "fuzziless" as well.

>>11854045

See? You probably think ketchup goes in the fucking fridge. Don't ever talk to me about "taste" again you fucking degenerate

>>11854057
That's a really nice texture, what's it from?

>>11854024
>His Doom 2 maps still range from good to questionable to holyfuckingshit.
There doesn't seem to be much agreement on which of his levels are awful though. Chasm has plenty of fans. Some people even seem to like Icon of Sin.

>>11853025
03:39
https://files.catbox.moe/2l8xqn.lmp

>>11854064
It's a shambler skin and model used by Arcane Dimensions and some other mods. Credits say it was made by RBanninga.

Whats a beautiful quake map/mod to try you don't see talked about much?

>>11854069
IoS is just on absolutely another level of shittiness. It's The Dark Ages level of bad. Kingpin: Reloaded level of bad. Big Rigs and Ride to Hell level of bad. It goes far beyond any cancer you can make in Doom engine, 30 years later community still couldn't come up with a more disgusting concept.
Chasm and Downtown are okay but no way in hell I would call them good. Citadel is good and absolute shit at the same time.

shamblin'

>>11854006
>yet there's not a single cyberdemon or even spidermind equivalent in Quake that needs shitload of ammo to be put down.
Having noncombat boss type enemies was one of the lamest parts of Quake.

>>11854006
>Quake moved away from Doom monsters to much slower gameplay

Really can't agree with that honestly. It's lower monster count usually, and they are, on average, spongier. But it is definitely a faster paced game, and it significantly increases the damage all around. It forces more explosive weapon play, and it pressures you to be agile in a small space, not just circle strafe. Doomguy can tank more hits than Ranger by a good margin (unless you have red armour), all the projectiles are way faster, and the one mechanic everyone always misses- Instant weapon swapping. That alone makes the moment to moment gameplay way faster, there's simply less margin for error. To me Quake is Doom but amplified, all the fat trimmed off, just the raw meat.

I am surprised there isn't some sort of enemy rebalance that makes the lower tier "fodder" enemies less spongy though, hell knights and ogres should take at least 2-3 SSG blasts but I always thought fiends should be able to go down in one SSG blast if you wait for exactly the right moment. Make it like a risk/reward thing where you have to wait right til they leap at you or else you won't get all the pellets to hit.

>>11854006
Honestly without a bfg that would mean having to place quads all over the place when you decide to make such a monster common.
Shamblers are already a bit of a drag in numbers.
Which would kind of just lead to heavily telegraphed levels. "heres your quad lighting gun, yes you will be fighting 5 cyberQemons, have fun."
BFG means if you can do a little dance you can just put down a cyberdemon quickly which lets him act more of a fuck-you monster than a bullet sponge which is more of the barons role since they suck up BFG shots even in small groups.
Quake already has the dance with the Ogre
And I guess vores are kind of a fuck-you enemy.
I propose we merge the two.

>>11854057
>>11854045
I could give or take fur on Shamblers, but only if it's a thin and dense kind of coat like you'd see on a walrus, it wouldn't be fuzzy and fluffy, they're too nasty of a creature for that.

>>11854084
>no one has managed to top sandy's work
Impressive.
I'm a bit forgiving of IoS as they clearly wanted something different after Doom's bosses were so disappointing. That doesn't make the result any better, but I can at least see how they got there.
My vote probably goes to The Factory.

>>11854097
Yeah, I worded it wrong, gameplay is not slower, it's even more dynamic with all the vertical action. I wanted to say that the process of killing each individual monster is usually slower, especially at the start. And then you have all the fat monsters, yet the fattest monsters are still not as fat as in Doom.
I wonder if there was some technical limitation why they couldn't add some 2,000 hp giganiggur. There's plenty of them in Quake 2.

>>11854102
it would obviously be like, matted and patchy, but the OG texture definitely reads as blood-stained fur rather than skin to me. Like you ever see a fucked up male polar bear after they have a big near-death honour battle for the right to fuck a ladybear?

idgaf if they intended it to be skin, that's not what they ended up creating

>>11854084
>30 years later community still couldn't come up with a more disgusting concept.
This man has not played Hell Revealed.

>>11853685
I remember liking Scourge a bit better than Dissolution. I guess it's kinda like the Plutonia out of the two expansions, mean but fun.

>>11854104
>There doesn't seem to be much agreement on which of his levels are awful though.
I love Factory, the outdoors are insanely boring and insanely ugly on anything but 320x200, but at the same time all the indoors are really creative and fun.

>>11854114
I didn't. If it's just another interpretation of IoS then it doesn't count.

>>11854102
>shamblers in normal climates: furless
>shamblers in colder, snowy climates: very fuzzy
Unless that 'cold climate' is the spaceless void.

>>11854128
Ohohoho, no, no no.

So I watched this: https://youtu.be/l3MeyHcGp-U and found it inspiring. But now I can't seem to find any of his models. Most of whats hosted on this site appears lost: https://forums.hash.com/topic/47381-game-assets-made-in-am-by-madfox-for-quake/
not to mention his personal site is gone too.

If anyone can point me to where I can see them I'd appreciate it. Also, just looking for interesting creations in general. I needed stuff to draw. Thanks.

>>11854114
I don't think really anyone has played Hell Revealed past like the fourth map, it just kinda sucks not gonna lie

>>11854181
Rude!

Are the death knights in Dwell supposed to be transparent or did something fuck up

>>11854169
I might be thinking of the wrong guy, but I'm pretty sure this is a 'lol websites are so oldschool, come join my dicksword server and be a part of muh community teehee" situation.

>>11854189
I think something done goofed. There should be different skins of them per episode but none of them should be transparent. Want to share a screen?

>>11854169
>interesting creations in general
A classic >>11842701

>>11854195
They look like this. I don't think they were like this when I first started, but I am pretty sure it only started after I loaded a save and carried on from level 3 or 4.

>>11853212
>chainsaw school
>expect segs
>known autistic feels

>>11854196

>>11854194
If he was hosting a website and all that shit, I can only imagine that was costing him money, whereas with Discord you can do that shit for free. It's stupid, and people should stop doing it, but it's easy to see why it continues to happen.

I've thought about setting up geocities for some of my bullshit, honestly. Though I wouldn't be able to host stuff properly there.

>>11854194
I hope you're thinking of the wrong guy too.

>>11854196
Thanks for the pointer! I'll check it out. I like what the creature designs are for Call of the Void and definitely loved the custom enemies for Alkaline.

>>11854229
>geocities
My mistake, I meant neocities.

>>11854220
WONDERFUL!

>>11854181
huh

>>11852620
[7-08] The source code to Hexen Hack Editor has finally been released
https://github.com/snemarch/HexenHackEditor/

>>11854024
I just found out yesterday he has a youtube channel where he talks about lovecraft nerd shit and his time working at id
https://youtu.be/MUeu96TKQwU?si=i80ME5epXBLz4-dB
He's a cool guy

>>11854181
Finding the grenade launcher in a bathroom stall? Touche...

>>11854262
ID24 and Doomworld homosexuals are so distraught from these news right now, that they must be breaking their legs even before finding a window to jump from. Finally Doom's decadent rule will be dislodged once and forevermore, to usher in the new age of Hexen modding. We've literally waited decades for this.

>>11854330
There's no way hexen is that good... is it?

>>11854336
No. It's not as bad as some other people claim, but it's not some unspoken god game either.

>>11854330
... what?

>>11854336
It's a very acquired taste. IMO it's like a half-measure between a first person action game like Doom, and then those old blobber style dungeon crawler RPGs where there's attempt at puzzles and abstract problem solving.

Heretic is a mostly better game.

>>11854345
>... what?
That homosexual is just babbling nonsense, either for attention or just to be funny.

>>11854347
He talks like a faggot and his shit's all retarded.

>>11854075
>no fur
Not my shambler.

>>11854350
Cool. The models and textures are still open to whatever headcanon you like, and even silly not-retro "nu lore" from things like Quake Champions covers both bases.

>>11854336
The base game is fine for what it is. Bit too much of an emphasis on switch-hunting and backtracking, some of the puzzles aren't that intuitive, and there's the occasional trap, but it isn't too difficult to figure things out.

The expansion, however, can suck a fat one.

>>11852620
>2048 Units Of /vr/ 2
This did some "sleeping agent activation phrase" shit to me.
Ready to join you when you are ready to go.
t.guywithteacup

>>11854363
Would you be willing to have a go at leading the project? Or at least assemble and adapt all the textures properly.

>>11854330
ID24 is already abandoned, and every single hexen map set is made by those dw guys.

>>11854336
It's ok. Wouldn't make into my top 10 retro shooters though.

>>11854375
>Would you be willing to have a go at leading the project?
Have zero leader qualities, live in different timeframe than 99% of /vr/ users (Russia) and have a ton of my personal stuff to be taken care of.
>Or at least assemble and adapt all the textures properly.
I have no idea how this stuff works in Doom. Barely managed to pull shit in one wad for one of my works but that's it.
It's like 2025, but developers still try to come with some borderline insane packaging formats for their data.

>>11854375
Call me when you're doing a doom rollercoaster tycoon wad.

>>11854406
Say you build a coaster in roller coaster tycoon. Possibly using custom tiles. These tiles would have a 3d equivalent in doom and then once you build your coaster you could have a compiler autogenerated a map based on the rollercoaster tycoon tile map. I guess the real kicker would be getting the rollercoaster part working in the doom engine... Maybe the unreal engine would work better

Well this map was fucking bullshit lmao. Don't even care I didn't 100%, couldn't be fucked.

I think I will play something else before I tackle the next episode of this, it's got really nice architecture and clever level flow and all that shit, but the fights do resort to borderline slaughter gameplay

What next bros? Alkaline maybe?

>>11854416
Alkaline was very interesting for the most part. Would suggest that.

>>11854385
>I have no idea how this stuff works in Doom. Barely managed to pull shit in one wad for one of my works but that's it.
>It's like 2025, but developers still try to come with some borderline insane packaging formats for their data.

I feel that. Even try researching how to do it and these niggers want to gatekeep it like knowing how to edit a wad in slade is the only thing getting them pussy. There's s pretty neat automated tool thing I can't remember the name of now, though, that keeps your files organised and packages up the wad for you. Other anons might know what I mean. But you have to use it like, right from the very start when you first begin your project.

I wish I knew that before I completed my 3 map huge project. I ended up just throwing every other wad and resource I used into a .pk3 because fuck the wad police what are they gonna do

Looking for short but sweet doom wads.. any recommends?

>>11854567
Ol' No Name was only like 4 or 5 levels.

>>11854057
makes me wish I hadn't lost my shambler sculpt ages ago.
all i have left is a picture and a memory...

>>11854567
Magnificent Five

>>11854567
lunatic

>>11854416
I didn't 100% it even in normal, hats off to you. I think I left with only one kill missing, probably a dumbass zombie that took enough splash damage to die but not gib.

Loved the map, though I wouldn't want an episode only of its action. Its difficulty felt earned as a penultimate stage desu.

>>11854567
Altars of Madness

is it ever coming out?

>>11854665
Give it another five years, they might post another teaser.

>>11854380
>ID24 is already abandoned
Xaser's involved with it, of course it is.

>>11854665
In time when 94 Protons comes out, earlier than Mordeth 2

>>11853504
I'm more interested in the guy who took charge of vertex relocation, what's he been doing

>>11853064
ECH-ECH-ECH-ECH HE-ECH HEHUH ECH HE-ECH ECH ECH HWAAAIIAARRRGHKK!!!

I casually play Doom 2 and Final Doom iwads (and vanilla compat pwads) on complevel 3, instead of 2 and 4 respectively. I like having Lost Souls bounce off floors/ceilings in 3, which is behavior also carried into complevels 9, 11, and 21, so it keeps consistency. And while 4 also has this behavior, it also introduced a z axis bug with teleporters.

>>11854665
I'm also wondering when the REAL final version of E2 will come out. IIRC, the "final" version turned out to still have a lot of bugs and issues.

>>11854823
>tfw none of this matters to me because I just play D1 over and over again on DOSBox

Is there a recommended alternative to the DHTP for Doom?
I know it's a few years old, but I still like it.

is doom mapping hard?

>>11854924
Not in the slightest.

Damn, no idea how long since it started to become a norm, but these palette shenanigans in DBPs are such a sore on the eyes. No choice but to play with full resolution and the truecolor hardware rendering, which to say not many ports have to begin with.

His levels are bad even by 1994 standards.

>>11854924
It's really not, at least in the technicals, Ultimate Doom Builder is extremely straightforward and easy to learn.

>>11854942
Imagine hating fun levels like Halls Of The Damned and Tricks & Traps.

John Romero made Perfect Hatred in six hours, and he's said that he's occasionally been getting hatemail for it over the years.

>>11854587
Damn that sucks. That was looking pretty great.
I think I might try tackling a shambler if I ever get around to finishing this player model.

>>11853820
The fact that it happened at all isn't exactly excusable, not when LRG are such a shitty and bad company.

>>11853064
This needs a bit of work in the face yet. I see what you were going for but those are definitely not the shape of lips. Would probably benefit from a thinner nose bridge too.

>>11854924
I see it as an "easy to pick up, hard to master" kind of thing.

>>11855030
kek

>>11855036
That's what I get for queuing up a response for something else and forgetting about it

>GZDoom

Were people in retro FPS communities always spiteful cunts? Both for old and new games, players/modders/developers. The more I've been sticking around to see some neat shit, the more I notice that's mostly just assholes throwing shit at each other and backstabbing across the board.

>>11855069
Sad to say, anon, but this is just growing up and losing your youthful naivete.
People in all fandoms everywhere are spiteful cunts.

>>11855069
Kind of dramatic, don't you think? Threads like this are way more chill than /v/. At least we can discuss things without rampant accusations of shilling. Because if someone self-promotes their wad, who gives a shit?

>>11854330
>We've literally waited decades for this.
>We
Who are "you", anon? Hexen mappers either use vanilla/limit-removing out of principle or (G)ZDoom DECORATE/ZSCRIPT if they want something more than a base game. The reason nobody ever made fully working dehacked for Hexen is lack of demand.
Fine, now that thing may be interesting for a few GZDoom haters and from historical perspective, but most people barely care about that released code when it comes to actually making wads.

>>11855010
Model for?

>>11855095
At least Quakes 2 and 3. Maybe 1 also if it doesn't look too janky once baked down to an appropriate polycount.
It's based on concept art by Paul Richards for an unmade Quake 3 player model called 'Hellchick' that someone posted here a few months ago.

So what is the Plutonia of Quake?

By that I mean, the one where they found its real style and that basically all future mappers would be copying whether they like it or not.

>>11855129
I don't play Quake but I agree 100% with your second sentence.

>>11855081
>Kind of dramatic, don't you think?
Maybe. Just tired of negative (even if for valid reason, not only the shitposting) and "wannabe kewl edgyguy" posting, but I guess that's largely just me. Oh well.

why does every port have to have the shittiest defaults. dsda-doom and zandronum don't set resolution to same as monitor, dsda doesn't enable hardware renderer even though it performs better and looks similar to software and zandronum is an atrocity to configure, no hud scale options so you can't use the status bar because it is to big, have to use the text version instead, no crosshair scale options so you just have to tolerate the smallest version because if you enable scale crosshair it will take up half the screen, and text scaling being way too small. maybe more people would be interested in playing the game if the defaults where not so ass.

>>11854181
HUH, I think I did something like this for my HUH map.

>>11854942
Halls of the Damned is one of the bestestest Doom 1 maps. Your shitposting is weak even by 2025 standards.

>>11854724
While I enjoy his work, he has a real bad habit of announcing big projects that he never finishes. But what comes to id24, it's just being retooled as new mbf (which is better for as all imo). He's still involved with it, like with mbf21.

>>11854924
It's easy to make a Doom map with modern editors. It's hard to make a map that gets recognization these times, because the community is so active with releases and the level of maps is so high.

>>11854942
>hasn't actually played 1994 maps

>>11855069
/vr/ and Duke4 are chill. Also Doom Power if you understand russian.

>>11854942
In 1994, his levels set the standard.

>>11853909
Yes, you can do it though the backend database.

sketchy

>>11855069
I feel like it's gotten worse with time.

>>11855069

It was always like this honestly, except nowadays it's tranny narcissist melodrama instead of plain old autistic neckbeard nerd drama. Internet communities are mostly cancer which is why I stick to anonymous imageboards, the simple fact of not having a permanently displayed identity stops most of it in its tracks.

I love Duke (no homo).

>>11854729
>94 Protons
Did chopblock actually die or something?

>>11855224
>/vr/ and Duke4 are chill.
No idea about Duke4, but even these threads haven't felt all that chill lately. Which is quite a shame, really, because before I mostly enjoyed lurking here.
>>11855256
Part of it seems like an overall trend, but I suppose it's also just the basic thing of noticing more in spaces where you stick around for prolonged period of times.
>>11855294
>it's tranny narcissist melodrama
Both extremes are definitely more prevalent here and there. People screeching about trannies and such are often just as insufferable (if not more) than some of those trannies themselves.

>>11855320
>even these threads haven't felt all that chill lately
How come? I haven't noticed any difference.

>are often just as insufferable
Gonna agree on that. People who try to force their politics or their personal community drama on retro video game discussion are clowns. Luckily most of us are here for games.

>>11855310
He was brutally gangbanged on the streets. His prolapse has not still recovered, so he can't sit down and finish 94 protons.

not sure if this is even the right place but how do i play duke nukem 1 on modern hardware preferably with controller support i know 2 has the rigel engine but i dont think there is anything for 1

>>11855320
>Both extremes are definitely more prevalent here and there. People screeching about trannies and such are often just as insufferable (if not more) than some of those trannies themselves.

It's true and I agree, but the way it seems to me is that you wouldn't have all those people screeching about it if they weren't so aggressively forcing their identity into everything. It's circular. I don't give a shit if somebody is a tranny or a furry or any of that, as long as they are making cool stuff and posting in a constructive way. These people just kick up shit in order to make themselves the centre of attention, and then wonder why people are buttblasted about them.

In my book, an artist should focus on their art. I don't release any of my music or maps etc under my real name, I don't want it to be about me; but these people are the exact opposite. It's all about themselves. Hence why I say narcissist. I guess that's why they grate on me so quickly.

>>11854385
>It's like 2025, but developers still try to come with some borderline insane packaging formats for their data.

dude should we just use gzdoom or eternity? or other ports that make stuff easier? dont u like wasting time? what is wrong with you?
on a serious note, im glad i dont pay attention to communities anymore, i just play whatever the fuck i want how i want and when i want. most ancientfags just play offline and enjoy every once in a while.

time is a precious resource. probably the most invaluable one. cant be wasting it reading garbage online, forums or whatever

>>11855328
https://k1n9duk3.shikadi.net/reduke.html
I've found this, which seems to be a reverse engineered version of the original game.
You could probably just play the original game through Dosbox, I don't know much about controller support when playing through Dosbox, you could probably do it with some kind of remapping. I'm pretty sure the Retroarch version of Dosbox would allow you to easily set up gamepad controls, but that comes with the additional barrier of navigating Retroarch's settings which can be a bit confusing at first but easy once you know what's where.

>>11855320
>but even these threads haven't felt all that chill lately.
The eternal bickering does seem to be getting worse, though it does make stuff like people speedrunning maps and just talking about what wads/mods they've been playing stand the fuck out.
>People screeching about trannies and such are often just as insufferable (if not more) than some of those trannies themselves.
People who have made it their entire thing to hate something or some one else tend to be worse, yeah, they see it even where it's not there, it consumes their every waking moment and they make it everybody else's problem.

>>11853025
If you ever run out of ideas, here some suggestions I spontaneously came up with
Painful Evil by Tomi Rajala https://dsdarchive.com/wads/painevil Category: any
End Game (MAP07: Water Treatment Facility by Lee Szymanski) https://dsdarchive.com/wads/endgame?level=Map+07 Category: any
Lakeside by Megalyth https://dsdarchive.com/wads/lakeside Category: UV max
Vanguard (MAP09: Free Parking by skillsaw) https://dsdarchive.com/wads/vanguard?level=Map+09 Category: UV max
400 Minutes of /vr/ (MAP17: Archahellago by Sitri) https://dsdarchive.com/wads/100minvr?level=Map+17 Category: UV max

>>11855357
Botched the last link https://dsdarchive.com/wads/400minvr?level=Map+17

>>11855348
>People who have made it their entire thing to hate something or some one else tend to be worse, yeah, they see it even where it's not there, it consumes their every waking moment and they make it everybody else's problem.
It's so fucking annoying. Dead tired of troons, but if I never saw them again or heard about them from anyone else (like from people complaining endlessly about them), I would be so fucking happy.

>>11855320
I would say that it often ends up being about equal, which is an impressive achievement in personality disorders and social dysfunction.

I hate trannies so damn much, it's unreal

>>11855410
translation: trans people live in my head so rent free i bring them out out of fucking nowhere

And leave Unreal out of this

>>11855410
I hate Communists so much it's unreal, but do you know how fucking ANNOYING it would be if I brought that up every opportunity I had? You people would get SO fucking tired of me.
Communists aren't Retro Videogames (at least not often), so my thoughts and opinions on them have very little place here.

Even if I made a Wolfenstein 3D TC where a rogue B.J goes after Stalin in 1947, in revenge for the Katyn Massacre, complete with Stalin in a T34 tank as the final boss (and maybe I will try that some day), that would still barely give me any license to talk about my thoughts and feelings on Communism.

I've gotta pick my battles, and pick the right times and places.

>>11855410
go cry on /pol/ about it
>>11855462
>in revenge for the Katyn Massacre
the Nazis did Katyn. Göbbels wrote about it in his diary. it was part of the Nürnberg indictment. Göring admitted to it, for which he was duly hanged. they also found German brass at the site. Katyn deniers will pretend neither of those things happened, but they did. not that Katyn was wrong in any way. killing functionaries of the Poolish reactionary state was a good thing

>>11854942
Most of Sandy's maps range from good to great. E2M1 is one of the best openers in the series, and E2M8 is boss battle ludo. His D1 work gets retroactive hate due to going full retard on some of the D2 city levels.

>>11854993
I don't typically like Romero's mapping style, but Perfect Hatred is up there with E1M3 and E4M1 as one of the best maps in the game. I love small, dense levels with health/ammo starvation and a puzzlebox approach. This is where DOOM really shines.

>>11855304
I think Halo is a pretty cool guy

>>11855540
It's a great map, you can't go unga-bunga and have to actually think what you're doing. And the kind of thinking you have to apply is nothing like "how do I move through this flat arena filled with 40 cacos and 50 revs and 200 imps" thinking.

>>11855410
I quit 4chan for a time, a whole year or two not too long ago, and honestly came to believe that the tranny fad was simply over. Turns out this is the only place where I ever hear about them. God damn.

>>11855561
Exactly.
>bro it's not slaughtershit, the puzzle is like, getting the monsters to infight and strafing an sheeit
I sleep.
>alright so first you need to kill the 15 monsters in front of you with barely enough ammo even if you make every shot, then you need to drop down into nukage with enough health to grab a megasphere (make sure not to get cockblocked by a hidden caco), then you're going to walk up a stairway of lava while gunninh down imps -- but make sure to save some of those shells for the barons you'll be shotty-sniping through a window a minute later, and now let me tell you about how to telefrag a cyberdemon...
That's the stuff.

>>11855558
>Library chapter 2: "Wait, it gets worse!"
I like to think they knew.

>>11855129
I don't think there's one, but for what it's worth Dario made a set of 4 maps for Quake called Prodigy. Fairly tough, don't remember if I ended up beating it.

>>11855597
People shit on Library but I must be the only guy who thinks 343 Guilty Spark and The Maw are equally shit. People only suck off 343 because of muh spoopy alium forest you see for 30 seconds in the beginning and then conveniently forget that the rest of the level is just a Library warmup with even tighter confines. The Maw absolutely fucking sucks and it might even be worse than the Library, especially with the endless waves of flood while having you hop around blowing up air vents, and then boring le warthog run at the end.

CE's best level is Halo and it's pretty much all downhill after that.

>>11855597
>uncentered crosshair

>>11855540

This is exactly why I love wads like the original Scythe, and stuff like the 1024 gimmick wads. Doom shines when it's small and concise.

Allow me to make an analogy for thrash minded metalfags. The track Disposable Heroes by Metallica is often considered an epic, but in contrast to some of their other long tracks, it's mostly repetition of the same dull open string chugging riff. But a two and a half minute track by Municipal Waste or Skeletonwitch or some shit has a much tighter density of ideas, you get just enough of each riff and it never outstays its welcome.

>>11855612
>CE's best level is Halo and it's pretty much all downhill after that.
I wish more levels were like it. Once you hit "Assault on the Control Room", I think the frequent level copy-pasting fully digs in even though it was cropping up before.
>>11855621
>try it, don't mind it, come to like it
What I'd truly want is the option to play all of my shooters with Operation Flashpoint's aiming system. It's a big reason I've been looking forward to that System Shock Doom mod (hope that anon's doing okay).

DOOM 2 is one of the best examples of "more isn't necessarily better". They nearly doubled the monster roster, added an extra weapon, the levels are more sprawling, but yet it feels like a lower quality product.
>no episodes, so you never get a gear reset (which cheapens the thrill of finding items) and there's no tangible sense of progress that comes with chipping away at the game in little self-contained chapters with their own themes and story bits
>there are new monsters, but half of them just aren't all that fun to fight, and there are basically no bosses (since the "boss" monsters from D1 have just been relegated to fairly common enemies in D2) aside from the final boss: a fucking wall
>the super shotgun ruins weapon balance by eliminating the need to balance small arms fire with power weapons -- instead it's just a middle of the road butter sandwich that's "good enough" for 80% of encounters even if it isn't ideal for most of them, and you're showered in shotgun ammo so resource conservation rarely even comes into play
>has some legitimately great levels but they practically alternate with shit ones, and the middle of the game is a slog so painful that it stains the entire experience

>>11855636
Funneled.

>>11855636
*yawn*

Listen Doom isn't even a game, it's a toolset for the community to make games with.

>>11855636
>instead it's just a middle of the road butter sandwich that's "good enough" for 80% of encounters even if it isn't ideal for most of them, and you're showered in shotgun ammo so resource conservation rarely even comes into play
It's an issue of what encounters get thrown at the player, something largely addressed in Plutonia: You still get a lot of shells, the super can be picked up in Congo, but it's not just a bunch of imps and zombies 80% of the game and the fights aren't as "close range friendly". It's still lacking the "episodic resets", though.

>>11855069
As someone who has just a toe dipped into the community, would be sad if true.

>>11855639
Probably the most faggy bandwagoner "I'm one of the boys" things you could say. I'm pretty sure DOOM is a game, bud. DOOM II's extra meat is great for custom content, but taken on its own merits the game is a lower quality product in just about every way.

>>11855636
Play it on pistol start and you'll appreciate it more.

>>11855636
>never get a gear reset
Continuous play was a mistake.
>the "boss" monsters from D1 have just been relegated to fairly common enemies
They aren't at all common and are basically all used for big dramatic moments that aren't even really fights because you're invulnerable or can crush them or whatever. I think the only exception is the spider in Barrels o' Fun. And the boss fights were never particularly good anyway - though admittedly better than Icon of Sin.

>>11852619 (OP)
Thread theme: https://youtu.be/LtcOtUlUgRE

>>11855645
>It's an issue of what encounters get thrown at the player
The problem is that the encounters can almost always be overcome by sheer bruteforcing with the SS. In D1, you'd constantly be making strategic decisions with your ammo: you might have your plasma rifle out but switch to your shotgun to pick off a zombie or imp, as a simple example. In D2, you have this portable cannon that rips through basically everything, negating the need to strategize. You see a caco? The SS melts it. You see a revenant? The SS melts it. What about a zombie or two? Well, the "smart" thing to do would be to switch to your regular shotgun and kill those enemies using fewer shells -- except it doesn't matter, because you're never going to run out of shells to begin with.

>>11855636
>>11855648

>>11855668
>You see a caco? The SS melts it. You see a revenant?
Yeah, often just one or two, hence the "80% zombies and imps" comment. Way less of an issue in Plutonia which has a much, much better use of the whole Doom 2 roster.

>>11855648

Saying Doom II is worse than Doom is only true if you only played the shareware episode. If you played the rest of it, you see they are pretty much on the same level. Some great levels, some shit levels.

Nobody is playing Doom in 2025 because of the original actual content. This game, in current year, remains relevant because of the technology and mechanics it is built on, and community who embraced that technology and those mechanics. It's just the right level of complexity to allow people to create stuff, and just simple enough any faggot can do it.

I don't care how faggy that sounds, it's facts bruv.

>>11855660
There's like ~10 cyberdemons and masterminds combined in D2, that's pretty frequent for a game with 32 levels. I'd say relegating them to big dramatic moments where you're pumped up on invulnerability makes them even more pathetic and less boss-like in nature.
>the boss fights were never particularly good anyway
I think D1 did boss fights just fine, outside of spidey being a complete pushover. D2 has nothing like tower of babel.

>doom 2 is in some ways inferior to doom 1
what a marvelous, ground breaking thought
this has never, ever been brought up in the last 30 years

>>11855675
>nooo you can't discuss doom in the doom thread, you're supposed to talk about my custom wad where you play as a little anime girl
doom 2 fags get so butthurt when you try to compare the games on an objective basis, it's uncanny.

>>11855673
>Nobody is playing Doom in 2025 because of the original actual content
Total bullshit. This gen alone is home to dissertation-length discussions about shit like "who was le best mapper" or "best d1 level?" on a near threadly basis, and it's not because nobody is playing the vanilla levels anymore. If anything, it's more interesting to pick apart the original content because it's frozen in time, as opposed to flavor of the month wads that are 99.9% pure garbage that will be quickly forgotten and don't even deserve analysis.

Doom 1 is incredibly brain dead easy. I don't see how anyone could play it in 2025 and not get bored out of their mind.

>>11855612
>>11855634
I wish more levels were like The Silent Cartographer, it feels like the one good level in Halo CE that doesn't have noticeable copy-pasting while also managing to give the player some flexibilty in beating it. I think the entire second half of the game sucks, but I do like 343 Guilty Spark and The Maw the most out of the Flood levels. I don't mind fighting the Flood in 343 and the enemy change would be something refreshing if not for the fact that the Library comes next, and The Maw might be one of the better one just because it's the end lmao. I also find Two Betrayals to be just as bad as the Library.

>>11854097
>I am surprised there isn't some sort of enemy rebalance that makes the lower tier "fodder" enemies less spongy though, hell knights and ogres should take at least 2-3 SSG blasts but I always thought fiends should be able to go down in one SSG blast if you wait for exactly the right moment. Make it like a risk/reward thing where you have to wait right til they leap at you or else you won't get all the pellets to hit.

I made a mod that increased the damage and spread of the SSG so that death knights and ogres (with the smaller hitbox) could die in 3 shots, but only if you got close enough to them. Probably would need some fine tuning

>>11855683
challenge runs/nightmare

>>11855636
>no episodes, so you never get a gear reset (which cheapens the thrill of finding items) and there's no tangible sense of progress that comes with chipping away at the game in little self-contained chapters with their own themes and story bits
Only real criticism that I have of the game as a whole.

>>there are new monsters, but half of them just aren't all that fun to fight
Bullshit, the new added monsters are phenomenal additions, filling previous gaps and adding new possibilities for encounter design, which are employed. New and old monsters compliment each other.

>and there are basically no bosses (since the "boss" monsters from D1 have just been relegated to fairly common enemies in D2)
I'd say that it's more they're used as minibosses, there are a total of 5 Spiderminds in Doom 2, and 5 Cyberdemons (4 if you exclude MAP32), so they're not exactly everywhere or very common, rather they're the rarest enemies in the game still.
If you're playing Multiplayer Co-Op, that increases to 12 Cybies and 6 Spideys, which still leaves them the rarest enemies by far, but they're at least used better than in the first game.

>aside from the final boss: a fucking wall
That one just kind of is what it is, it's a somewhat rushed compromise solution because they didn't have the time they wanted. It's not great, but at least it looks cool and it's SOMETHING different.

>the super shotgun ruins weapon balance
No it doesn't, people who say this are just bad at the game and afraid to use other weapons. The SSG is decidedly middle of the road, it has decent power and a high stun chance using more common ammo, but has very limited range and a modest attack speed. SSG exists because the new monsters raise the stakes, and it's helpful against Viles.

The Rocket Launcher alone shits all over it in terms of range and DPS, it's WAY faster and does splash damage, you can fire 100 Rockets in way shorter time than 100 Shells, and you get a MUCH larger potential damage output.

>>11855692
I already did pistol start fast monsters. I've tried to force enjoyment out of the game.

>>11855674
>Crusher: spidey (crushed)
>Tricks and Traps: cybie (fights barons)
>Refuelling Base: cybie (invuln)
>Gotcha: both (infighting)
>Barrels o' Fun: spidey (actual fight)
>Spirit World: 2 spiders (invuln - several even)
>Living End: cybie, (stroll past if you don't feel like it)
I think that's everyone. They aren't common or used anything like the regular enemies.

>>11855634
>frequent level copy-pasting
i straight up dropped both 1 and 2 during their final missions and never came back because of that. felt like i was trudging through the same area over and over for hours.

>>11855674
Tower Of Babel is a pretty unremarkable fight unless you're a 386 poorfag in 1993 stuck on keyboard only.
Refueling Base makes a better fight, depending on which end of it you're coming from and if you know to get the Invuln.

>>11855069
100% true for this board. I'll just give you a tip on how to not get wiped and banned here: never mention mega man deathmatch conversion. Don't even ask me why, nobody fucking knows

An arch-vile is more threatening than a spider mastermind.

>>11855714
I understand that complaint for CE but halo 2 is pretty good about not copypasting levels.
If you drop that game on the final level halo probably just isn't for you. That's about as interesting as the story gets, and you've also experienced some of the best levels in halo as well.

>>11855656
It was common of people in the 90s to say that pistol starting every map on UV was the way to go.
The only argument fella has that holds amy water is the last of gear reset.

>>11855714
I've heard this complaint for ages, and beat the first halo for the first time a few weeks back...
The back tracking is so snappy with the new vehicle access I didn't mind it at all. It wasn't a slog because you didn't have to foot it, and just rushing it in the reapers was fun.

The worst bit of halo isn't the last mission or two of backtracking, it's the library. Tedious. And that dipshit robot going "we only have like 10 of these fuckin doors my dude, and every floor is a copy pasta".
The flood isn't even fun to fight. But they get more fun when they interact with the better AI enemies.

>>11855695
>Bullshit, the new added monsters are phenomenal additions
Some of the new enemies are great; chaingunner in particular was a smart addition if only for adding another weapon-dropping enemy, spiderlings and tubbies are great too, but the rest are largely mediocre
>reskinned baron that dies from a fart puff
>reskinned caco that shoots cancer
>revenants are complete pushovers unless there are like 5 of them in a small area with no cover, they look stupid as fuck and have an unsatisfying death animation
>archviles are eternally memed as some kind of walking "oh shit" moment but in reality just slow down the game by forcing you into cover for a few seconds so you have time to roll your eyes and sigh
These guys can have interesting applications in custom wads but they are almost never used well in the original game.
>I'd say that it's more they're used as minibosses
That's the problem though, there are no real bosses. In D1, barons became common enemies after E1 too, but that didn't diminish their purpose as the bosses of the episode. D2 uses its biggest enemies as glorified set pieces and there's never a tower of babel situation where you're up against a new big badass with no idea of what to expect.
>It's not great, but at least it looks cool and it's SOMETHING different.
Let's be honest, it was basically the laziest solution they could have contrived.
>No it doesn't, people who say this are just bad at the game and afraid to use other weapons.
Lame argument. Me thinking "I don't need to switch to my pump or chaingun in this situation because I know there's more than enough shotgun ammo in the level for me to kill this group of imps with a single SS blast without fear of wasting shells" is meta knowledge if anything. That's the issue: being good at D2 is ultimately about realizing how you can nuke most everything in the game with the SS alone, and switching weapons becomes less advantageous than in D1.

Doom 2 (and all subsequent wads made for it) should be a pistol start from each text intermission.

>>11855752
>reskinned baron that dies from a fart puff
He has half the health but does the same damage, which makes him a generally more suitable candidate for the roided Imp role. He's still robust at 500 health, it's just not a fucking chore to blast multiple of him at once.

>reskinned caco that shoots cancer
Meatball is a menace and a half but with weaknesses, which makes him so good. He can infight, which in some situations is actually good, but in others makes things worse.
You gotta hurry to prioritize him, try to avoid his line of sight if you can, and if you're ballsy you can actually cockblock his spawns by getting in his face.
Meatball + Cyber is an outright evil combo.

>revenants are complete pushovers unless there are like 5 of them in a small area with no cover
They're arguably the best new monster because they have seeking missiles, but not too much health and their melee is a separate attack which can be whiffed, making them fun to melee fight.

>archviles are eternally memed as some kind of walking "oh shit" moment but in reality just slow down the game by forcing you into cover for a few seconds so you have time to roll your eyes and sigh
He's not used particularly creatively in Doom 2 itself, no, but Final Doom alone makes far more interesting uses of him.

>basically the laziest solution they could have contrived
No time to have an all new physical model designed and put together.

>Lame argument
It isn't, overreliance on the SSG is a crutch. There's so many people who will refuse to dip into their Cells and Rockets because they're too comfortable with fighting the slow and inefficient way with the SSG.
More than anything, this is going back to Doom 2's lack of episodic division where the player's inventory is never forcibly reset. You wouldn't feel this way if you were pistol starting or if you had your inventory reset 3 or 4 times, so you didn't always have the SSG safetyblanket.

>>11855752
>reskinned baron that dies from a fart puff
He dies from 3 SSG blasts, that makes him more versatile than barons from a mapping perspective since the latter is far spongier.
>reskinned caco that shoots cancer
Which makes him a higher priority than the caco.
>revenants are complete pushovers unless there are like 5 of them in a small area with no cover, they look stupid as fuck and have an unsatisfying death animation
They have low health to make up for the fact that their rockets can fuck you up easily. There's a reason wads spam them so much, because along with chaingunners they're two enemies that you can kill as quickly as they can kill you. Also, I don't know about you, but the sound of their bones rattling when you kill them is really satisfying to me.
>archviles are eternally memed as some kind of walking "oh shit" moment but in reality just slow down the game by forcing you into cover for a few seconds so you have time to roll your eyes and sigh
When archviles are used correctly (actually having them surrounded by other monsters and not just placing them on their own), you can't just hide in a corner and wait it out because they'll just keep reviving monsters and using them as a shield.

>>11855775
>There's so many people who will refuse to dip into their Cells and Rockets because they're too comfortable with fighting the slow and inefficient way with the SSG.
That might be a valid criticism if fighting with the SSG was actually slow and inefficient; instead it's often slower to dip into your rocket supply because of self-inflicted splash damage. Why take the time to worry about maintaining safe distance, switch weapons and waste uncommon ammo that would've been more useful during a big encounter several levels later, when I can just blast away with the SS and risk little or nothing? Cells are one thing, but the same issue ultimately applies minus splash concerns, and that hardly makes up for the SS making several other guns almost pointless.
>You wouldn't feel this way if you were pistol starting or if you had your inventory reset 3 or 4 times, so you didn't always have the SSG safetyblanket.
Sure, but unfortunately that isn't the actual game. The actual game is being given your bread and butter weapon at the very beginning and then being allowed to keep it for the next 30-some levels (so long as you don't die) and almost never having an incentive not to use it. If your argument comes down to "just pistol start bro", then that's a flaw in game design. I shouldn't have to use self-imposed challenges just to squeeze depth out of the game.

>>11855752
>you're up against a new big badass with no idea of what to expect
That's the shittiest thing about bosses anyway because it can only ever work once. Bruiser bros only "work" because Doom's horror is all atmosphere and no difficulty, especially E1. Spidey isn't even good at that.

Boss fights are gay no matter what. I don't understand why so many gamers are infatuated with the idea of an enemy that takes 10x longer to kill than any other.

>captcha: D0RK

>>11855808
I don't know man, even if cyber and spidey are complete pushovers after beating the game 1000 times, I'd be lying if I said I didn't still enjoy fighting them. There's an appeal to "I just waded through 7 levels of mental engagement, time to let loose and unload into some big cunt for a minute".

>>11855819
Cyberdemon I can kind of understand, but Spidey is a lame fight even from a pistol start. And without that it's pathetic.

>>11855251
Cute as always.
>>11855775
>You wouldn't feel this way if you were pistol starting or if you had your inventory reset 3 or 4 times, so you didn't always have the SSG safetyblanket.
The other extreme that Doom 2 runs into is giving players several opportunities to pick up the BFG in the first 10 or so levels of the game. You've got those 80% of fights being "supershotgun friendly", that remaining percent becomes trivialized by the actual best weapon in the game and all those stockpiled cells.
>>11855786
>That might be a valid criticism if fighting with the SSG was actually slow and inefficient; instead it's often slower to dip into your rocket supply because of self-inflicted splash damage.
That's at least more of a skill issue and something that can be overcome with better spacing and fight awareness. Still, most of Doom 2 can indeed by trivialized by continuous play and the super shotgun, but thankfully as >>11855129 inferred it did not become the popular basis of custom level design.

>not being a licensed rocket pumper and robocow arena appreciator
Couldn't be me.

>>11855647
I think my mistake was broadening the scope. Having tunnel vision should be helpful, at least for a while.
>>11855721
Eh, I've seen enough stupid tantrums thrown around in this very thread with your topic being just one of the themes. That's one of the things that soured the taste: it may be amusing and kind of funny at first, but this type of shit gets old. Very fast.

>>11855215
>But what comes to id24, it's just being retooled as new mbf (which is better for as all imo)
Ah yes, because there's nothing better for all than a big corporation snatching up a fan-made standard, declaring it as their own, reserving entire chunks of data for their own exclusive use, and declaring any mod using those chunks to be in violation of the standard.

Because history has shown that corporations butting in on/taking over fan-made content has only ever resulted in good things.

>>11855819
>time to let loose and unload into some big cunt for a minute

any gen without equal parts quality discussion and shitflinging will eventually die or turn into a nice guy redditor circlejerk. i love seeing a good tantrum personally.

>>11855834
Never found petty abuse of power and censorship amusing but that's me

>>11855842
t. mega man

>>11855846
> don't notice patterns goy, just obey
> nothing to see here
> you don't wanna be called <insert new boogeyman> do you?

The good thing about id24 is that like all modern corpo bullshit ideas it was half-assed from the start, so it could not gain any foothold, despite all the shilling when it was released, so they will probably not try again in the future.
But since it's over and nobody got harmed, let's just forget about it and continue limit-removing mapping, the thinking man's format.

>>11855850
>you are a kabbalistic golem if you derive amusement from me getting banned for having constant anal fissures and directly detailing my plans to subvert the entire general with sneaky thread baking and image editing
dr. light, i think rock needs a tune-up

>>11855836
Especially when Microsoft owns that corporation now.

>>11855857
> people come up with a new image
> """"""Somebody"""""" makes a vote to convince people new image is not wanted
> new image wins
> somebody creates a thread with new image - following all of the rules
> it gets deleted (against the rules)
> """"Somebody""""""" literally admits they deleted it out of spite for having a new image (against the rules)
> somebody else makes a new thread, also with new image
> it gets deleted as well (against the rules)
> finally """"Somebody"""" makes the thread with the old pic, literally calling it "beat to the punch" to get a sense of petty revenge
Now tell me who is subverting the general here?
I don't know if you're that good at shining ass or genuinely this dumb

Must be a slow news month when all we've got going is bringing back the stupid shit of that time an anon removed a bunch of mods to insert an extra big writeup for his favorite zandronum mod.

>>11855829
>The other extreme that Doom 2 runs into is giving players several opportunities to pick up the BFG in the first 10 or so levels of the game. You've got those 80% of fights being "supershotgun friendly", that remaining percent becomes trivialized by the actual best weapon in the game and all those stockpiled cells.
Bingo. DOOM 1 is filled with situations like:
>I will kill this pinkie with my shotgun, now I'll switch to my chaingun to snipe these distant zombies... oh, there's a group of imps cottaging, time to break up the lemon party with a rocket, now I'll switch to my plasma for the baron and lost souls in the next room... oops, big group of spectres, I'll funnel them through this doorway so I can chainsaw them one by one to save ammo
And then, the DOOM 2 experience:
>Yep, there's a pinkie... SS blast. Hey, some zombies and imps, two SS blasts. A revenant? An SS blast or two, why not... Whoa, I better watch my shells- lmao, nevermind, just found 40 more. Uh oh, big group, time to use 50 of the 600 plasma ammo I saved up by not using any other weapon this entire time... ah, there we go, anddd back to my SS
If somebody says "the SS doesn't ruin balance in custom wads where attention is paid to ammo distribution" I'd be in full agreeance. The base game though is sickenly geared towards SS abuse and I find it almost unbelievable that someone could argue otherwise.

I like Doom 2.

>>11855857
> directly detailing my plans to subvert the entire general with sneaky thread baking and image editing
Holy shit when will you stop forcing this bullshit? Literally 2-3 threads ago people came up with an image that was agreed upon and then multiple people said they were gonna use it for various reasons. Then they did use it and their threads got deleted and they got banned. I hope you're at least being paid to shill here although by the looks of it you are the """"somebody"""""

>>11855889
>we all agreed bro, it was a group decision
>we bro, they bro
i used to be a schizophrenic but we're both okay

>>11855857
> no-no it's people who publicly come up with a new pic and then publicly say they are gonna use it who are subverting the general, not the sneaky cunt who wipes and deletes every thread with new image and every conversation calling him out on it
Nice trany *anny.
If anybody actually still doesn't understand what's going on - please consult this link: https://imgur.com/a/XCUcFaK

I recommend you save it in case """"""somebody""""" makes """""something"""" happen to this post (for a completely justified reason of course!)

>>11855836
That's literally opposite of what's happening. The new mbf will be fan-made standard. Id24 was the corporate standard that was abandoned. Since you are out of loop, here's how these have been developed
>mbf21 was made by fans in open
>nightdive hired a bunch of these fans, but not all of them
>id24 was developed inside nightdive by previous fans, now workers who got paid
>it was released incomplete and was supposed to get completed later
>bethesda said to nightdive that they are now done with doom, time to move on, so no id24 development money no more
>at same time development of new mbf was started by fans in open, by some new guys and some old guys that participated in development of mbf21 and/or id24
>the next mbf will be free of LoR additions, kex dependancy or even kex support, the tangled up gooberman's code but will have stuff of id24 like custom weapon slots and custom ammo + more
>schizos will still have a reason to hate it, because they hate everything not made by themselves

>>11855886
I like Doom and Doom 2, they're both pretty cool.

>>11852619 (OP)
i just got the reference after all this time. i'm slow

>>11855884
>If somebody says "the SS doesn't ruin balance in custom wads where attention is paid to ammo distribution" I'd be in full agreeance.
It's more about overall level/encounter design than the ammo balance, having fights that become overwhelming if you just want to use the super and/or enemy placements where it's just not as effective or riskier to use. I've always enjoyed suspecting that there's where a lot of anti-chaingunner posters come from: Constantly running into them with the super and getting their ass kicked, fumbling harder than Casali did in his own Plutonia playthrough.

>>11855918
Yeah. Their fun games. I've had a lot of enjoyment playing them and all the mods that have been released since. If I had to spend to rest of my life on an island and could only bring one game, I'd probably be doom with a drive full of mods.

>>11855897
and nobody ever wipes posts, deletes threads, bans people and then tries to damage control by making posts accusing the people he banned of subversion - all because he's that triggered by mm.

and screenshots in this link >>11855916 are obviously photoshop

BOY DO I LOVE BEING SCHIZO LOL
I'M SURE THIS POST IS NEVER GONNA GET DELETED BY SUBVERTING """""somebody"""""

>>11855925
Pretty much all of my maps have an encounter designed to fuck you over if you rely on just the SSG, the tears fuel me.

videogames

>>11855897
Anybody can literally just check previous threads and read through discussions. What is even the point of your gaslighting?

>>11855870
>>11855889
>>11855916
>>11855937
look how you're behaving right now. getting this upset is not normal. the funny part is that you've clearly concoted the idea that i'm some handrubbing janny trying to silence you. my man, i am being completely sincere when i say that i didn't even know about this drama until a few weeks ago when you had your full on breakdown and ranted about "i'm going to start making threads and putting the image in!!!" while shamelessly samefagging as your own cheerleaders. i'm literally just one fat guy with no horse in this race, and i've just egged you on in a few threads (where i wasn't even the first one to mention you) because i think it's funny. your wad may very well deserve to be in the image, the jannies may very well be wrong for not wanting to include it, but you're digging your own grave by conintually acting like a deranged homosexual. you're ripping your pants off and running around with a giant erection waiting for a wall to slam it into, and then getting mad at the wall. i'm only telling you this because, in spite of finding it all very funny, i think you at least deserve to know that not everyone is part of some secret cabal of megaman haters. it doesn't go that deep. you're just being a fag, and it's humorous to make fun of it.

What's a good doom wad for someone who's not on the spectrum?

>>11855967
The Thing you can't Defeat.

>>11855967
Brutal doom hell on earth

>>11855967
>not on the spectrum
>plays doom wads
Stop lying to yourself, mate.

>>11855916
>This is just the evidence I collected
>of all my own posts

>>11854347
>>11854348
Umm.. guys, I know it's a subjective feeling, but at least my eloquency doesn't reach this guy's levels >>11855965
>by conintually acting like a deranged homosexual. you're ripping your pants off and running around with a giant erection waiting for a wall to slam it into, and then getting mad at the wall
Right?

>>11855965
You sound reasonable. But you don't seem to have enough intelligence to realize that things you say also apply to you. You literally quoted a bunch of people, two of whom maybe be the same poster as if they are one guy.
And then you talk about conspiracy theories lmao.
You are right that you are uninformed because the last threads had mostly reasonable and productive discussions on the subject and that's why I personally brought it up this time.
I personally don't care if those 3 or however many of the first mm-anons never visit this board again because to me they were annoying and only hurting their cause so maybe we agree on that.

>>11855695
The SSG primarily ruins weapon balance because
1. The increased power of shells as an ammo type makes the map creator expect the player to use SSG for encounters that would be rocket or cell territory without SSG, and doles out ammo supplies accordingly
2. Doom 2 added a bunch of medium-tier enemies that have "literally designed to be killed with the SSG" health and pain chance numbers

The result is that especially custom maps become
>Doomirez SSG those pinkies
>Doomirez SSG those cacos
>Doomirez SSG those hell knights
>Doomirez SSG those arachnotrons
>Doomirez SSG those pain elementals
>Doomirez SSG those mancubi
>Doomirez SSG those barons, yes really get fucked
>Doomirez SSG that cyberdemon, yes really get so fucked
>here's 20 more shell boxes, 3 singular rockets and 2 small cells

>>11855993
Even if they are all his own posts, they do show the threads being deleted and him getting banned for obviously 0 violations of anything.
They don't change my mind cause I already knew what's going on for some time now but it is cool that somebody gives a fuck this much about mo*eration on this board.

>>11856005
>things you say also apply to you
very little of what i said applies to me because i am A) not trying to force my shitty wad into a community infograph, and B) i am not a faggot. i gave you my best advice, take it or leave it.

>>11855917
>Source: trust me bro

>>11856016
You accused at least 3 people of being the same guy. That makes you at the very least autistic or paranoid

>>11856009
NTA but isn't that just a level design problem?
Just don't make the player use the SSG like that

>>11856020
>there are definitely three+ mentally ill men typing with excessive apostrophes and capitalized words in defense of a literal who doom wad (at the same time)
unfortunately i am not nearly retarded enough to believe that, but i respect the hustle.

>>11855916
What the fuck even is this?

>>11855967

Just play on HNTR or HMP instead of UV, use as many saves as you need to, and most wads offer a fairly non-neckbeard friendly experience and won't need to use any pro doom strats. If you play the most highly polished wads it's practically just like high quality DLC.

Skillsaw wads (Ancient Aliens, Vanguard, Valiant)
Arik Alm wads (Scythe, Scythe 2, Scythe X)
Eviternity, BTSX, D2TWiDD etc

Just stay away from difficulty fetish shit like Hell Revealed, Kama Sutra, Sunlust etc and you will have a fun normie time. Those kinds of wad is they are good but designed for being hard, and turning down the difficulty just renders them mediocre.

>>11856005
>a bunch of people
>>11856013
>his

You. Yours. I will GLADLY eat a three day boopin' if those aren't all you.

>>11855965
>you're digging your own grave by conintually acting like a deranged homosexual. you're ripping your pants off and running around with a giant erection waiting for a wall to slam it into, and then getting mad at the wall
you are describing the original mm guy to whom this applies 100%. if you actually saw the previous threads you know that the pro mm people now are extremely sensible.
if I'm wrong - please give me an example of a pro mm person acting like a deranged homosexual. I personally don't remember this, but I do remember most of the instances captured in >>11855916

>>11856036
there are at the very least 2 of us so calm your tits

>>11856025
The super shotgun and the new Doom 2 enemies are strongly guiding level design towards having that problem, it makes it considerably more difficult to try to sidestep around it than to go full SSG.

>>11856017
There's been discussion going on for months on github, newfag.

>>11856060
>pro mm people
lmao

you know what. I'm just gonna throw this out here.
what exactly would need to happen for the new image or yet another fucking variant of an image that includes megaman that even more people agree on to be used?

so far:
> original autismo wave of mm people tried being obnoxious and pushy: got b& and wiped
> semi-next wave of mm people (likely same 2-3 dudes) tried making an actual ok image that people were totally ok with: got b& and wiped nonetheless
> recent wave of seemingly completely or mostly different people came up with another even more humble version of the megaman description and put it in a place where doesn't even replace any other wads. nobody was against it aside from one seething contrarian. literal fucking vote happened. new threads with the image got deleted, people calling it out got b&

so the obvious question arises. if it's about being decent and reasonable, how much more fucking reasonable would they need to be?
>inb4 it'll never happen
you're just proving original mm people's point. and as we've seen spite only creates more shit flinging, not less

and the reason I ask this is what if somebody else wants to make some other addition to the doom pic or say quake pic?
what prevents a certain some one from banning those additions and then accusing everybody supporting them of being a samefag?
isn't it natural for the generals to gradually change and grow instead of stagnate for some retarded reason?

>>11856083
>original mm
>people
comedy gold

>>11856063
>Source: trust me bro

>>11856086
I gave you the source. If you want to continue being retard, then go on. Not my problem.

>>11856009
that kinda falls apart when there's more than one enemy on the screen

>>11856061
Just don't put a lot of shells, and place more rockets. It's honestly understated how much you end up using the RL in Doom, probably just as much or even more than the SSG if you have the ammo and enough space.

>>11856085
> still no coherent response
QED

>>11856061
The worst thing they did with the SSG was give it so early, it set an expectation that you're going to get it quickly.

>>11852619 (OP)
> BEAT TO THE PUNCH
> literally had to manually delete two threads in a row to make this shitty thread
What did he mean by this?

>>11856094
>I gave you the source
>Only mentions supposed discussion on GitHub without posting an actual source
I checked the pages for MBF21, Kraf, and Xaser, and unless GitHub has a discussion tab that it keeps hidden for some reason, this supposed discussion doesn't seem to exist.

>give shotgun early
>shell and bullet starvation, regularly drip feed a few cells to incentivize using plasma on weak enemies instead of just shotty/chain
>give SSG midway through level
>have multiple areas thereafter with 2-3 weak enemies at a distance that can't be easily reached without running into fire or looping around so it actually becomes advantageous to switch to regular shotty and conserve now-precious shells
now the shotgun isn't useless and the SSG is a power weapon. there you go, problem solved. unfortunately most wads don't take this approach into account and just starve you on rockets/cells while dumping shell boxes on you.

Hey guys, anyone here with an AMD GPU who could help me out with testing something? Apparently, VKDoom also behaves poorly at times with AMD GPUs. I spoke to a dev about it, and he gave me some tips on how to fix this shit in my mod, but I'm on Nvidia and I have 0 issues, so I can't know for certain if what I did helped. Is there anyone here who would be willing to help to test it out?

So I played Deanova some more in the attrition mode and she's quite good if use her properly, for example, her pistol can deal massive damage even to bosses and dispatch them quickly, no other character can do that with their slot 2 weapon. But yes, you can’t just use rocket launcher or bombs to solve every issue you face like with the rest of the cast, so switching to her from the other characters might feel offbeat. By the way, seeing these big and mostly unpopulated maps in build games, which is common in my experience, to me feels disappointing. When you play Doom, you go through maps that are 10 times smaller, but house like 20 more enemies and have a good combat flow on top of that, why can’t build stuff be big and combat heavy?

>>11856143
SSG breaks weapon balance because its only real disadvantage is ammo availability and the fluctuating distance of enemies. Consider the following:
>shotgun easily kills weak enemies near or far, and it's hitscan
>chaingun rips through crowds of trash mobs and can stunlock bigger enemies, but isn't as powerful per shot as the shotgun, making it less efficient for killing weak enemies than the shotgun
>rocket launcher packs a big punch but has slow missile projectiles and can damage you if misused
>plasma hits hard and fires fast, but it also has slow missile projectiles and a cool down animation on top of using the most valuable ammo type
>BFG is the game ender but is the most wasteful and is never viable long term because it runs out too quickly, forcing you to reserve it for big moments
Then you have the SSG, which can easily kill weak enemies up close, stronger enemies up close, groups of enemies up close, doesn't punish you with splash damage, and you almost never run out of ammo for it. This leaves the matter of distance. In the event that an enemy is too far away for the SSG to be useful, then you have the shotgun, chaingun, plasma and rocket which can all serve the same purpose of "kill distant enemy" before switching back to the SSG. So where every weapon in DOOM had circumstantial advantages, SSG has no real disadvantage outside of occasional situations where you can use literally any other weapon to balance it out. The solution here would be for the SSG to have its own ammo type -- but of course this would make things messy and illogical, so they kind of backed themselves into a corner with the whole thing. In short, SSG was a mistake.

>>11856160

I have 6800xt, wasn't aware of any issues on vulkan. Usually AMD works better on Vulkan I thought. What do you need to be tested?

>>11856173
>why can’t build stuff be big and combat heavy?
if we're being honest, it's because the weapons are all tailored to fighting groups of enemies, and build games have always been about oohh ahhh gimmicks instead of gameplay.

>>11856009
>2. Doom 2 added a bunch of medium-tier enemies that have "literally designed to be killed with the SSG" health and pain chance numbers
If anything that's a result of Doom 2 adding sorely needed enemy health pools that aren't as squishy as a caco and aren't as buff as a baron, and some of those - like the mancubus and pain elemental - have a chance at needing another supershotgun blast to be killed. There's a similar "powergap" between the chaingun and plasma rifle that was also filled with the super shotgun.
I'm not sure what your "SSG pain chance numbers" means when a lot of the newer Doom 2 enemies have pain chances that mirror their Doom 1 counterparts, and I will also agree completely with >>11856097
>>11856117
Giving it early is fine, but Doom 2 also doesn't throw it's more threatening enemies at you early. Compare this to Congo on UV having you deal with revenants, pain elementals, chaingunners, a bunch of mancubi, and two different archvile encounters (one where it shines, another where it's nearly useless) all in Plutonia's first level, and it's not too different on HMP. You also get the rocket launcher there, too.

>>11855917
>bethesda said to nightdive that they are now done with doom, time to move on, so no id24 development money no more
>>the next mbf will be free of LoR additions, kex dependancy or even kex support
Wow yeah so that entire thing was totally worth it then.

>>11856183
>What do you need to be tested?
I would send you over two versions. One should probably crash, while the other one hopefully shouldn't. It's a consistent crash that happens on literally the first level. It's lightmap related, so that's probably why you never came across it before.

>>11856195

I can give it a try after dinner, post a link

>>11856187
>There's a similar "powergap" between the chaingun and plasma rifle that was also filled with the super shotgun.
that powergap was literally the shotgun. more powerful than chaingun, but hitscan instead of projectile like plasma.

>>11856212
I'd prefer not to share the link publicly here.

>>11856213
>that powergap was literally the shotgun
It's spread makes it worse at long range, it's worse at painchancing, and it's roughly the same DPS. It has the advantage of letting you take cover while you pump but it's definitely not between the chaingun and plasma rifle.

>>11856173
>>11856186
Most brutal takedown of build engine shooters I've ever seen

>>11856213
>more powerful than chaingun
not really

>>11856213

nigga do you even play this game

Chaingun is easily above shotgun, especially when lacking SSG (and even moreso in Doom 1 where pinkies are one of the most common enemies), not because of raw power but sustained damage and the fact it flinches/stunlocks enemies.

NTA but for my money the SSG itself isn't a problem, if anything it's just that rockets should have been made slightly more powerful. It's balanced because it has a slow ROF that punishes you for wasted shots. It's fine so long as mappers exercise good judgement withholding it either until later maps of an episode or as a secret that requires some legwork for pistolstarters.

>>11856173
>why can’t build stuff be big and combat heavy?
Sprite limit, 4k sprites can only be on screen. That counts all the decorations, enemies, and misc stuff like gore, gibs, projectiles and everything that is not geometry really. Of course it's hard to hit it vanilla duke, but AA is a shitfest of effects and maps are much more detailed

>>11856225
The chaingun and shotgun have a very nice balance where one has higher DPS and stunning capability, but the other has way more ammo.
Rockets and the SSG have a similar relationship. But instead of having more ammo, it's less dangerous to yourself.

I always feel like the Chaingun is just a tiny bit underpowered, so I always draw for the single shotty over it. If the Chaingun was like.....2-5% more powerful I would use it more.

>>11856221
>>11856224
>>11856225
Shotgun has an average per shot damage of 70. The chaingun needs to chug 7 times at the cost of 14 bullets to achieve the same damage output as a single shell, and this is putting aside the fact it can't hit multiple enemies and the shotgun can do up to 105 damage to a single target. The advantages of the shotgun are clear as day, these ch00bs acting like it's a throway weapon compared to the chain is laughable. Shotgun absolutely filled the power gap between chain and plasma, because it is the literal middlepoint in terms of damage and projectile type.

Is there a reason there are so much less wads for quake than for doom?

>>11856264
because doom is older and it's a better game

>>11856264
Barrier to entry, Quake's a lot more of a fucker to do stuff with, even John Carmack said Doom persisted as a much better platform for modding and doing shit with.

>>11856271
> even John Carmack said
WHAT?? EVEN THE CREATOR OF DOOM SAID DOOM IS BETTER? HOLY SHIT THAT'S CRAZY DOOD

I guess my problem with it is that Quake is simply a more intelligent shooter and it's a subgenre of FPS that was all but lost to the winds of time
So now it's either rails like call of duty or arena shoot em alls like SS

>>11853997
Is it supposed to be the same pic as the one we had for the past decade?

>>11856279

>>11856286
I'll have what HE'S having!

>>11856279
>Quake is simply a more intelligent shooter
>garbage weapon balancing
>quad damage is basically a win button, and it's fucking everywhere
>any semblance of enemy variety is abandoned after E1 and you'll just be juking ogres for most of the game
but uhh yeah, i guess the physics that let you rocket jump around and skip entire portions of levels is cool...

>>11856256
>these ch00bs acting like it's a throway weapon compared to the chain
no one is doing that

>>11856271

Double edged sword really though, there's less stuff overall for Quake but I feel like the higher barrier to entry results in a better quality/quantity ratio. With Quake you can pick up pretty much any of the relatively modern community projects and you are more often than not to be in for some pretty good shit.

With Doom it's so easy these days that any retard who knows how to move a mouse can figure it out, and that's a good thing for the overall activity level of the community, but it does result in a much higher ratio of uninteresting content. You have to really dig for the good stuff with Doom.

>make him do the chain-gun cha-cha!

>>11856295
>literally being filtered by the z-axis

Sad.

>>11856305
>know how to abuse the physics to trivialize the game
>filtered
based retard

>>11856256
>Shotgun has an average per shot damage of 70.
Each pellet from the shotgun is 5-15 damage, same hitscanning pellet as the pistol and chaingun, and it shoots 7 pellets per shot. It only takes 7 bullets for the chaingun to deal the same amount of damage and they share a similar spread, so both guns are hitting the same amount of "multiple" enemies. The time is takes to shoot and pump the shotgun is insanely close to the time it takes to shoot 7-8 bullets.
>The advantages of the shotgun are clear as day
I wonder if you're actually basing this off of some gameplay mods.

>>11853779
Anon, you CAN buy Duke Nukem on Steam. Is this Steam-Autist-Anon? What autism prevents you from buying World Tour Edition and launching eduke32 through it?

>>11856313
I didn't know it came with the atomic edition in the files when I posted that

>>11856139
Check pages for Woof, Nugget and dsda. I can't remember, it's been a while.Kraf isn't doing anything anymore, he quit.

>>11856312
First off, you aren't going to be firing 7 bullets because the chaingun uses two bullets per click. Each bullet and each shotgun pellet have the same mean damage, except the shotgun fires 7 at once. The chaingun has a higher DPS with sustained fire but it is completely outclassed on a shot for shot basis. In the same amount of time it takes me to fire two bullets with a max damage of 15, I can fire one shell with a max damage of 105.

Here's a case study: walk up to a group of zombies, now fire the shotgun once. You might kill 4 or 5 of them. Now walk up to the same group and fire the chaingun once. You may not even kill one. Ergo, the chaingun is stronger when sustaining fire, and the shotgun is stronger for eliminating the most enemies in a single moment, or when firing and covering.

>>11856190
Id24 was basically Nightdive's idea anyway. Bethesda just greenlit it until they didn't. That kind of stuff happens constantly in game business.

>>11856345
>>11856256

Impressive that you have read this much doomwiki info and yet never booted the .exe a single time in your entire life

Really, it's something

>>11856354
>no argument, just starts acting like a diaperbaby for some reason
Really cool man, sorry you know less about the game than me I guess.

>>11856264
Doom is just easier to mod since you don't need to do 3d models, room over room mapping or actual coding. On top of that Quake 2 and Half-Life killed Quake 1 modding for a few years before it even properly started. Quake modding became it's most active past 2010.

>>11856182
Rocket Launcher and Plasma still deal damage faster than the SSG. If you had unlimited ammo for every weapon except the BFG, you'd use these almost exclusively. SSG being unbalanced is for the most part an issue with ammo and enemy placement.

>>11856313
I don't think World Tour has the actual 1.5 version of duke3d.grp that you need for expansions and eduke mods. Better just get them the way you can actually get them. World Tour has no expansions either.

The 5th episode is good though, and everyone should play it (with eduke).

>>11856365
SSG would still be useful even if you had unlimited rockets and cells because, once again, rockets can damage you and have travel time, and cells do less damage per shot and have travel time. If I see a pinkie in front of me, am I going to take out the SSG or the plasma?
>SSG being unbalanced is for the most part an issue with ammo and enemy placement.
Yeah... that's why I said:
>its only real disadvantage is ammo availability and the fluctuating distance of enemies.

I was digging through some old forums and found a link to an image repository on this Russian website that seems to be abandoned. Filled with a bunch of preview screenshots from the mid-late 90's. Lot of stuff I haven't seen in a long time, some stuff I've never seen before.

www quake spb ru/pics/

>>11856354
nta but acting like an oldhead while getting basic info wrong is embarassing. nothing he said is incorrect. poopflinging about the ss and shotty is one thing but this is the first time i've seen somebody try to argue that the chain gun makes the shotgun redundant, what are you smoking

>>11856380
>xian model with receeding hairline
now that's some attention to detail

>>11856372
Why would travel time matter when the SSG is just as bad if not worse when fighting enemies at a distance? And if I see a single pinkie in front of me I could give less of a shit whether to use the SSG or the Plasma, because either way it'll die right away, but if I see a group of pinkies headed my way (which is more probable than a wad dropping single solitary pinkies at me) and I have unlimited ammo for both, you bet I'm using the plasma.

idk anything about Q2 modding.
If Quake 2 modding uses native code, does that mean it's possible to make a Quake 2 mod that's malware?
Are Quake 2 mods incompatible across operative systems?

>>11856380
Here's some art by Dhabih Eng. If the name sounds familiar it's because he went on to be one of Valve's top artists.

>>11856386
>Why would travel time matter when the SSG is just as bad if not worse when fighting enemies at a distance?
Travel time matters because we're discussing the merit of the weapons based on how quickly they can kill enemies in a variety of scenarios. Yes, the SSG sucks ass at a distance, but it's 1) powerful enough to kill several enemies at close range faster than the plasma (without incuring the splash damage of the rocket) and 2) powerful enough to potentially kill enemies at a distance faster than either the rocket or plasma, even if doing so isn't ammo-efficient, purely because it's hitscan.
>if I see a single pinkie in front of me I could give less of a shit whether to use the SSG or the Plasma, because either way it'll die right away, but if I see a group of pinkies
Moving the goalposts. Even if the SSG or plasma would be acceptable in 99% of scenarios, that doesn't change the fact that the SSG would provably kill the single pinkie faster. In fact, depending on how close they were grouped together, you could kill up to 3 pinkies in a single shot because the SSG does over 300 max damage compared to the plasma's 40.

>>11856337
>Pull requests in Woof talk about MBF25/2y with explicit mention of supporting things like flaming skies, GAMECONF, and other ID24 features
Well I'll be damned. Guess that's egg on my face.

>>11856345
>The chaingun has a higher DPS with sustained fire but it is completely outclassed on a shot for shot basis
That's fine, as discussed it's completely outclassed by the chaingun's refiring rate.
>Here's a case study: walk up to a group of zombies
You know what, that's a good idea: Let's play the game and test things out in one of my favorite zombie rooms. The kill times here are insanely comparable over a minute or so, though I'm noticing RNG screwing over the shotgun just slightly more. I'm open to taking some time to test a different room if any come to mind.
>>11856372
>If I see a pinkie in front of me, am I going to take out the SSG or the plasma?
If I see any enemy by themselves I'm probably just going to use the super. It's a great dueling weapon. Anything more complicated than one enemy and I'm going to consider other weapons. If it's specifically just a pinky, I'd probably be inclined to chainsaw it.

>>11856359
>>11856381
Samefag and definitely that anon.

>>11856282
No, it is updated but it's not some total overdo or anything. Just the next iteration. Again, totally open to new suggestions - since I'm currently relatively free anyway

>>11856403
You're looking at these scenarios in isolation and not in the long run. If my objective was to get rid of a single pinky as fast as possible then of course I'd pick the SSG, but again, that's not realistic. The only way a single pinky would be threatening enough that this decision would matter is if I had 1% health and was stuck in a 128 unit square. Yeah, the SSG would kill a weak enemy faster, but the plasma gun just deals more damage overall, is better at distance, and is better when enemies aren't close together.

>>11855965
feel like a silly goose yet?

ironically the guy predicting he was gonna get wiped didn't, but the guy posting the evidence link did (that much I called)

>>11856387
>does that mean it's possible to make a Quake 2 mod that's malware
Probably. I know it was a thing with Quake 3.
>Are Quake 2 mods incompatible across operative systems?
Yes, you need to compile a different version for each operating systems.

>>11856417
>That's fine, as discussed it's completely outclassed by the chaingun's refiring rate
As it should be. They are each situationally useful.
>webm
To the point above: your first shell kills two zombies, but took a tiny bit longer to mop up the whole herd. That demonstrates the strengths of each weapon right there, though it's worth noting you could have killed 3 or 4 with the first shell if they just happened to be grouped closer together.

It's time for Wednesday Night Wipeout!
Come play some SRB2Kart!
WE ARE STILL ON NEPTUNE 2.4.3!

How to join (The short and easy way):
Download the All-in-one repack: https://mega.nz/file/JrsETLaJ#Ny7E1Uu7ftp-2Yojpdj04Rc5xucKgV1V6H2DPboPzLA
Extract it to its own folder (NOT the desktop or program files)
Run "SRB2Kart-Neptune (Connect to vrkart).bat" and wait for any missing files to download in-game
DO NOT run "srb2kart.exe" and expect to be able to join the server.
If you don't have a 64-bit machine/OS for whatever reason: Copy the contents of the 32-bit folder into the main folder

How to join (The longer and harder way):
Download version 1.6 of the game: https://github.com/STJr/Kart-Public/releases/download/v1.6/srb2kart-v16-Installer.exe
Get the custom client we use: https://codeberg.org/NepDisk/srb2k-neptune/releases/tag/Neptune2.4.3
Get the mods either automatically in-game or at: https://macgu.fun/repo/srb2kart/
Connect to macgu.fun (either use connect in console or "specify ipv4 address" under Multiplayer)

>I HAVE TO BITCH FAST AND TEXT CHAT TOO SLOW
We also have a Mumble server!
Address: 51.161.34.159
Port: default
Password: endoom

>I heard this game supports proximity chat, are we using that?
No.

Pro tips: https://pastebin.com/YV6biqxq
(This is out of date and written for a different server, but it still has a lot of useful information.)

>>11856446
>what are IP addresses
>what are phones and computers
>do you feel like le silly goose yet
...no?

my least favorite part of Doom 1 WADs is having to shotgun cacos so I thank god for the SSG

>>11856464
>though it's worth noting you could have killed 3 or 4 with the first shell if they just happened to be grouped closer together.
Trying around the corner and a fourth kill felt real lucky, so much so that it didn't happen. RNG of both the spread and damage working against you.

>>11855069
Stop being such a soft cunt.
This is an imageboard.
Lurk moar and learn how to identify and ignore the regular spergs.
Though this thread is certainly less helpful than it was a decade ago.
I wonder what has changed....

>>11856464
>That demonstrates the strengths of each weapon right there, though it's worth noting you could have killed 3 or 4 with the first shell if they just happened to be grouped closer together.

I think the entire crux of this debate is that you are taking RNG a little too much for granted. When you are dealing with dice rolls it's nearly always better having more dice at lower odds, because the number of instances means you are more likely to get statistical average, there's less "swing".

In this instance, that's chaingun putting out continuous fire, compared to one "burst" from the shotgun; if the shotgun swings low, you have a longer recovery time. Chaingun keeps it more consistent.

... And even besides that, can we just say again about the flinch chance? Raw damage is not the only variable. Flinch stops YOU taking damage, which is often far more valuable than simply killing the monsters faster.

>>11856618
I'd say the problem is we've been losing the more creative folks over the years.

>>11852619 (OP)
found this randomly
https://www.deviantart.com/aeea7835/art/Fallout-4-version-BFG-9000-707873498

I don’t know where else I could post this, but here it goes

I’ve been playing lots of Duke3D maps and TCs lately, and I recently finished this mod called Oblivion. It was the most miserable, infuriating, schizoid and misguided thing I ever played. The creator, which I found to be dead for a long time, was one of those weirdo troubled “geniuses” types. I had to use cheats all over the entire thing, and even then it took nearly 50 hours to finish the abomination of a mod. The combat isn’t too tough (far harder than vanilla stuff, though), except for the fucking spheres and most boss fights, all of which have obscene amounts of health, are superfast, dodge everything, and kills you in one hit, with attacks that have a huge radius, impossible to avoid. But the absolute worst was the level progression and the goddamn PUZZLES, the most inane bullshit I’ve ever seen, huge fucking levels, yet progression is always strictly linear, gated by bullshit obscure puzzle after puzzle.
The creator of this mod is surely burning in a special place in hell, made to play his own maps forever.

The chaingun is really good and IMO better than the shotgun in any Doom 1 style wad that has a lot of fodder enemies. It loses relevance the closer the map design gets to Plutonia combat (and even then there's a few times I wished I had more bullets to deal with far away chaingunners).

I dunno, is it just me or does the doom community have very low standards sometimes?

>30 years with doom
Right from the first handful of levels this just sucked. Maybe there's some good levels in there, I dunno, maybe that's just the nature with community stuff sometimes, but man.

Meanwhile everyoen on DW glazing the shit out of it

Does Duke Nukem listen to Van Halen or Van Hagar?

>>11856630
>The creator of this mod is surely burning in a special place in hell
That's not a very nice thing to say. Zaxtor gave us a full 4 episodes worth of content for free. May he rest in peace. If you don't like it, don't force your way through it.

>>11856684
Obviously RATT

>>11856654
No, you suck. You are not familiar with russian wads and russian mapping style, I presume. Where do all these noobs come from?

>>11856702
>You are not familiar with russian wads and russian mapping style, I presume.
I don't really pay attention to where wads come from.

Is this something like Scandi people eating rotten fish like it's a delicacy? Russian wads are just made out of boring architecture and dogshit enemy placement and you are supposed to like it because it's that unique Slavic style?

>>11856694
It’s actually 5 episodes. And the creator was a furry (and probably a fag and/or troon)

>>11856747
Speaking ill of the dead is still pretty shitty.

>>11856753
I’m merely stating facts.

>>11856747
But was the stuff they made good? I don't really care what they jacked off to in their personal time.

wut dook source port should I use? I'm familiar with eduke32 but it seems like there's more options nowadays. Is it still the best?

>>11856760
Architecturally speaking, yes. Gameplay speaking, hell no. The Zaxtor dude was clearly talented and dedicated, but completely disconnected from reality and probably obsessed with smelling his own farts (a common trait on this type of person)

>>11856271
>Doom persisted as a much better platform for modding
It's incredible to look at the modding scene now, and then consider the original release of Doom and how mod-hostile it was.
>data files archived instead of loose
>proprietary data archive structure
>proprietary formats within said structure
>most parameters hard coded into the executable
About the only concession it has is its patching system allowing for the loading of other archives.
It took a lot of powerful autism to crack that open.

>>11856747
His name was Cedric and he liked putting pics of nude women into his tc, so neither a fag or troon. I don't know about that furry claim either. He just wanted to make a funny tc, where play as fossa alien Duke hybrid. Fossas are funny looking animals. Why do you want to insult dead guy who wasn't even asshole to anyone (at least online) when he lived. That's just peak narcissism. Disgusting behaviour.

>>11856760
Not that guy but Zaxtor's maps are unhinged, for better and for worse. There's some absolutely fucked up puzzles he puts people through, and some of his levels come with custom enemies that're like protector drones but with a really loud bass-boosted distortion sound and explode for a fuckload of damage.
He also had a weird obsession with hole in the wall Contra bosses set to "Aliens Say Your Prayers."

But man some of the architecture and setpieces he's made over the years are impressive. I'm not sure if I'd actually recommend anyone to play his maps, because they're kinda fucked. Maybe at the very least check some of his levels in AMC Squad

>>11856770
Funny you say that, because playing his maps gave me a huge impression that this Zaxtor was a huge narcissist

>>11856756
You are spreading lies of a dead person.

>>11856765
>probably
You have a weird need to guess and make up bad traits for him. You are the one who is not right in the head.

>>11856774
Considering the fact that you are psychologically analyzing him because of his maps, and then trying spread lies of him, you are the insane one. Also a retarded faggot.

>>11856779
Why so defensive? Were you his boyfriend?

>>11856761
Yes.

>>11856794
I like his work. I don't like speaking ill of dead. I find insulting that a guy decidated almost half of his life of making a massive tc for free, just for some bastard to spread lies of him. I have some massive stuff in the works, and people like you make me consider abandoning my modding career. Why should I, if all I get of me is just insane envious retards spreading lies of me, when I'm rotting in a grave.

>>11856792
Just because you like sucking schizo cock, doesn’t mean everyone has too

>>11856816
>I’ll quit everything and off myself because evil meanies in the internet hurt my feefees

You are trooning out soon, if you haven’t done it already

>>11856816
Not that guy you're arguing with, but really if some retards potentially shit talking you after you pass is enough to make you quit, then I question your own willpower.
You should make cool shit because you think it's cool. To hell with anyone who'd want to tear you down, alive or dead. I mean fuck Term had some active schizoids stalking him on social media and attacking people around him.
He never truly quit, nor should you.

>>11856831
And you, you're gay.

>>11856816

Don't worry anon, I will only judge your mods by their quality and not your favourite species of yiff. Fuck this other anon, suka.

Right anyway here's the plan guys, I'm not allowed to have a wank until I've learned Tyrenchbroom and made a Quake map, and you have to hold me to it.

>>11856816
personally, i see it as a badge of honor if someone is going to form a sincere vendetta against me for the sinister crime of Making Content™. spite's an excellent motivator, no joke
>>11856831
and you're gonna shoot up a wendy's

>>11856835
Aww the schizoid troons are standing for each other. How cute. You should all meet up and tongue each other’s anus. Maybe you’ll even get some neat map ideas!

>>11856841
You tell the meanie, sis! Now to post in your mapping community on how you bravely defended your fellow troons, and then a good ol’ session of sniffing each others farts and sucking each others cocks

>>11856857
I sound like this and act like this in real life

>>11856818
I like respecting the dead and the work people have dedicated themselves for free.

>>11856831
If anybody is trooning out, it's schizos like you. What makes you a man? Certainly not the fact that you are spreading lies of a dead man behind anonymity because boo hoo his maps were too hard and hurt you. That's not manly in slightest.

>>11856834
>>11856835
Thanks.

>>11856761
RedNukem is a pretty good fork

>>11856857
Now your sanity is really starting to melt.

>>11856415
How many MBFs do we *need?*

>>11856882
As many as Lord Xaser deems.

>>11856882
At least I need the custom weapon slots and custom ammo types.

>>11856882
Till it eventually has parity with zscript and then Graf and Xaser kiss.

>>11856887
GZDoom already supports that.

>>11856893
So does Eternity Engine, EDGE, Ironwail and eduke. What's your point, Graf?

>>11856908
I simply point out that what you want is already available and you immediately get touchy.

>>11856889
Rather something stable like QuakeC but for boom-derived instead of that nasty tanglement of hacks what zscript is. But that's not something that we should be worrying now. Maybe then when the mbf50 or something like that is being made.

>>11856916
Not available for boom-derived ports. Not the same thing.

>>11856874
I quit Doom because it’s community is infested with troons. I quit Quake because it’s community is infested with troons. I got into Duke because I figured out that it’d be a troon repellent. Sadly I was wrong, it’s community seems also infested with troons.
Why is that your kind has to be everywhere? What is that these old shooters attract so many of your kind?
It’s always the same shit, once you take over, you make a no-criticism allowed space, no mean words allowed. You have to pretend that everything is wonderful, praise every map, every mod, no matter how bad it is, because “muh dedication”, “it’s made for free”, “respect effort!!!”. Outsiders like me, that flatly refuse to sing your tune and give unearned praise to everything, are shunned, as the troons gang up together to give a false impression that they’re “normal” and “the majority”, so that the one that dared to criticize is the “weirdo”.

>>11856921
>Maybe then when the mbf50 or something like that is being made.
By that point, they'd have personalization AI.
Every copy of Doom is personalized.

>>11856624
I clicked the right image on your arrow and found this. I don't know what the design on his hat is from.

>>11856929
The dove holding the plant is an old symbol for peace. Mix that in with the heart, and it's clearly meant to be "peace & love".
As a demon is about to gun someone down, of course.

>>11856925
You are insane and are seeing troons everywhere. Maybe you should quit Duke too, because the troons will continue to exist in your head. Everybody is troon who doesn't put up with your retardion, of course. You probably grew up with a father if you think that shitting on dead common folk is some straight male manly thing. And it's ironic that when somebody dares to shit on your homosexual majesty, it's suddenly not okay and you melt down.

>>11856925
Can you elaborate?

>>11856949
>grew up withOUT a father
Oh fuck my typos. Now I became the retard.

MBF? More like MtF lmao

>>11856734
Played 15 maps or so and only remember a couple of truly iffy ones. It manages to hold your attention with how diverse it is, to the point that it roughs up the pacing like with that big submission by Lainos. Want something bad? Judgmental Operas or something, true to its full acronym JOPA, has both beginners and old-timers alike trying to outclass each other to no favorable result. I would say E3M1 alone is worth experiencing, just so it could raise your expectations before the immediate plunge into disappointment if you decide to explore further. It's actually the late slot map that you'll either completely miss or begin playing from, in case your port doesn't support UMAPINFO, like I learned myself.

>>11856936
Groovy, kind of makes me want to finally learn how to edit .md2s and turn this officer cap into a beret.

>>11856972
i wish this model received a hd treatment

>>11856619
Frankly, I'm blown away that this is even a debate to begin with. RNG is always going to be a factor, but that's ultimately irrelevant because the shotgun and chaingun both have baseline advantages that should be indisputable for anybody who's played the game much. Here are some facts:
>at close-mid range, the shotgun does vastly more damage per shot than the chaingun
>the shotgun fires a spread of pellets which can hit up to 7 targets, the chaingun can only hit one individual target at a time
So at absolute bare minimum, the shotgun can do more damage to a single enemy with a single shot, making it invaluable for shooting while ducking in and out of cover (something the chaingun is largely worthless for). On top of that, you have the capability to hit multiple enemies with one shot: this makes the shotgun a perfect scouting weapon, because if you're running around with no idea of what's behind the next corner, then it makes more sense to keep a weapon ready that can deal the most damage in a single instance and also potentially kill more than one enemy in the same stroke. This is putting aside the fact that, with RNG on your side, you could mop up as many as 5 enemies in a single hit (even up to 7 if some are weakened), or the fact that shotgun ammo is by far the least valuable ammo type -- so using one or two shells to accomplish what could take as much as 10-30 bullets is a pretty good deal.

The chaingun, likewise, has its own advantages. With continuous fire and ideal circumstances, it has higher DPS. It can snipe better thanks to the first two shots being dead-accurate. It can stunlock enemies. So on and so on. Both guns have a purpose.

>>11856927
To be fair that AI Doom shit the techbros tried to push had this already because it hallucinated an unplayable E1M3 in wildly different ways.

>>11857010
>AI Doom shit the techbros tried to push
This is the first time I'm hearing about this, what?

>>11856968
The anon hulking out over 30 Years reminds me I've played barely any of the regional Doom community projects. I'll have to go on a tour after I finish Necromantic Thirst.

If I finish Necromantic Thirst.

>>11857014
Not him and I haven't seen the DOOM version but if you want to be absolutely mortified, look up "quake 2 AI microsoft". You can uhh... "play"... it yourself. It's basically an AI's interpretation of what Quake 2 is based on input data. It sucks, and it's actually quite disturbing.

>>11857014
This shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6RzS_mq-pI

>>11857014
Something which was touted as heckin revolutionary, but then you look at it and it's just absurdly shitty and useless.

>>11857035
This is actually an interesting example demonstrating how AI works. Notice that the things with the most fluctuation (e.g. enemies) are the ones that distort the most, but the static stuff that the AI has seen 500,000 images of is nearly identical to the real game (e.g. numbers on the healthbar). It literally just narrows things down by how much it's seen something, and then tries to produce a result based on what it thinks is most likely.

>>11857038
Yeah all the media was going nuts about it as the future of Doom but it couldn't do the mechanics, damage values are massively off, so were ammo values, and things dying when shot, and at the part where it drops into the nukage it does that inconsistently and loses the entry hole.

Even if it worked, there wouldn't be any use for it when it's already the most ported game in the world.

>>11856389
Were Gunners supposed to be human/strogg hybrid or alien/strogg hybrid?

>>11857028
It's interesting imo, but a retarded use of AI. AI can't remember for shit. And the way it's built it never will be.

>>11856989
maybe keep a lookout for low-poly modelers looking for a buck. Though I believe md2s are ass to work with because every frame and vertex needs to be indivitually edited per frame

>>11855120
Cool.

>>11856840
I've thought about learning how to use Trenchbroom and making something for Quake's 30th anniversary. I got filtered last time I tried, but a year should be enough time even for a brainlet like me.

>>11856925
I guess troons are everywhere, please kill yourself.

>>11856882
You will live to see your favorite franchise get run down into an unrecognizable mess with a ceaseless remakes pipeline. Enjoy the forced death exits and hub maps with a dozen of useless gimmick weapons. Remember the picrel boy?

>>11855636
>>there are new monsters, but half of them just aren't all that fun to fight
All of Doom 2's new monsters are more engaging than most of Doom 1's. Though admittedly, Doom 2's maps did kinda wimp out on the Revenant and Arch-vile usage most of the time, so you have to play plutonia and pwads to get the most out of them.
>and there are basically no bosses (since the "boss" monsters from D1 have just been relegated to fairly common enemies in D2) aside from the final boss: a fucking wall
Doom 2 using the Cyberdemon and Spiderdemon as rare tough encounters in otherwise normal maps instead of designating entire maps to a boring Boss encounter with them was a major improvement. Tower of Babel was novel the first time you ever played Doom, but its a very empty and easy level in retrospect. And Dis was terrible even the first time. Icon of Sin was indeed lame, but I'll give credit to id for at least trying something new, even if it didn't land very well.

>>11857094
seeing how the md5 models works in Q2R, it may not be hard even for /vr/ local autists either

>>11854942
he looks like JD Vance memes in this picture

Only tangentially related, but i didn't even know this was a thing. How many variants of this concept did they make?

BUFFCOAT AND BEAVER???

>>11857167
Never forget Tatsurdcacocaco or some other fool got accused of completing this speed of doom map with TAS until he proved them wrong by doing it again.

>>11857160
Most of the D!Zone series are just shovelware full of files downloaded from the internet, but at least H!Zone, Q!Zone, and Duke!Zone II have campaigns worth of original (though still mostly trash) maps.

>>11857175
Wasn't that okuplok? And the reason for the TAS accusation was that he took no damage, aside from an intentional AVJ, IIRC. It's one thing to beat a map like that, but taking no damage is suspect.

>>11854840
How does one of the most playtested megawads still have bugs after release over a decade later? I don't get these projects that take years to come out. Eviternity 1 was made in like 12 months, same with Ancient Aliens, and those are "AAA" sets.

>>11857215
AVJ?

>>11856990
Taking out as many as five enemies in one shot is only if you come up against surprise zombiemen and everything works out crazily perfectly. I'd rather have the chaingun when "scouting about" due to how more easily I can spread around hitstun if something like surprise chaingunners happen, especially when those guys along with imps have a chance at "tanking" those seven shotgun pellets.
It's still got its niche over the chaingun when it comes to more "damage in a single instance" at the cost of a lengthier refire, allowing some cover, but that gets overwritten once a super gets picked up.

>>11857230
Archvile Jump. When you get blasted up by a Vile somewhere, usually to skip intended progression.

>>11857069
Strogg overall are frequently referred to as "aliens" in the manual, though they still come across as human cyborgs. For the gunners, I imagine the one side of their head is the same as the berserkers but under the skin instead.

>>11854924
it is easier than drawing in illustrator but learning how to make fun encounters is harder than making pretty maps
>>11854964
>Tricks & Traps
fuck the lowering platforms at the end
being an ugly gimmick map is one thing but that was bullshit

>>11857221
Vanilla compatibility makes ambitious projects a lot more challenging to make and polish. And considering BTSX has been intended to be a trilogy since early on, that makes it triple the challenge.

>>11857134
Ah, it'll be like 2005-2007 ZDoom mapping never left.
Time is a flat circle.

>>11857134
Death exits aren't a ZDoom thing, it never needed them.

>>11857208
What in the goddamn?

>>11853725
>the ripoff LCARS on the manual
LRG are such faggots. DOOM is channelling ALIENS not fucking TNG

>>11857552
Sorry bud, Doom was CLEARLY inspired by Warhammer 40k.

>>11857560
Nobody's buying your bullshit Timmy, you didn't invent DM maps either.

>>11857552
It's pretty much the same as the original SNES version's manual, just the camo colors look different.

>>11856761
Doesn't matter. You will have to use specific builds that come bundled with the mod. Yes, almost every time it's eduke32, but you still can't have one source port installed and configured. I wish all games were like Doom and Quake

>>11856761
Eduke is really the only mod friendly source port. Other source ports don't have any exclusives.

>>11857690
There is also that Eduke32 addon compilation by NightFright. It has over 100 mods, all fixed for newest eduke. NightFright continues updating it.

>one map to go until my first proper wad in years is complete
>so close, yet so far
ill finish it in a bit ok
im sleepy right now is all

I am getting filtered by Doom 2.

I remember a time when shotgunning a single revenant to death seemed impossible
Now I just fist those boners to death

There was a time before I watched this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJcf0aOwmiA

After watching this video I became the Doom man I am today

>>11857909
>moronic piss fiends
classic

>>11857909
>take a seat boneheads

I lose it every time

>>11856295
>>quad damage is basically a win button
Only in Q2 because you can carry it everywhere. E4 is the hardest episode in Q1 and I'm pretty sure it has the most quads. Sandy really likes placing powerups in his levels methinks, he also had plenty of invulns in his Doom maps.

>>11856295
>quad damage is basically a win button, and it's fucking everywhere
That's not even true. Also, how can you even begin to complain about "quad damage" when both games literally have an invincibility pickup, which is even MORE literally a "win button?"

>Whoa!
>Oh, just me.

>>11858091
The amount of times I've walked past a mirror in a build game and knee-jerk unloaded my gun on own my reflection is a bit sad...

Nah I got this lads, this quake mapping thing will be a breeze.

... I don't really understand any of the compiling shit, why can't I just have a nice friendly "test map" button like doom ;_;

>>11858036
His use of both quads and invulns make for a lot of fun in that fourth episode. Some of his level aesthetics just leave something to be desired.
Q2 quads are tricky to balance, though. Most of the other inventory item ideas are fine but I do think they would work better in 2 if the quads immediately activated on pickup. The Black Widow getting buffs when you use a powerup was kind of a neat idea.
>>11858115
Whenever I get to Duke3D's second episode I always tell myself:
>>"this time I will NOT shoot the angled mirror in Tiberius Station"
Then I forget and do it anyways.

>>11858116
>any of the compiling shit
It is, in large part, to create the BSP tree, I believe, which is more complex compared to Doom's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCRHSIg6zo

>>11858116
>>11858147
it's been a while since I made maps for Quake, but I recall rad being the thing that takes the most time

>>11858116
also you can just make a .bat file that compiles your map and launches Quake

>>11857887
>I am getting filtered by Doom 2.
Honestly, I recently replayed it myself, and I have to say it's main good qualities involve it being compatible with most mods and pwads, but Freedoom Phase 2 does that job better.
Shareware Doom and the first 3 episodes of Doom 1 are the best.

>>11856771
>Maybe at the very least check some of his levels in AMC Squad
I guess if you want the guy to never touch AMCS, that's good advice. Zaxtor's maps are the absolute worst of that mod.

>>11858171
I still consider Plutonia my favorite, but when comparing original Doom vs original Doom 2 I'd probably prefer the former. I feel a lot of it hinges on how much you like the new shotgun and new enemies.

>>11858171
Thoughts on TNT?

>>11858171
>Shareware Doom and the first 3 episodes of Doom 1 are the best.
Ya at putting me to sleep.

Why does the Chex Quest dude have Pizza Tower artstyle on BYOC?

>>11858351
It's ok, does some stuff really well, does some stuff badly, System Control is the best Entryway.

>>11858365
The mod originated in the Pizza Tower Discord

>>11858351

i just paid john romero 13.32 euro

>>11858374
System Control IS really good.

This sweltering heat makes me want to both map and not map.

>>11855886
Quake 2 is my jam

Anything wads like Rainbow Six / SWAT?

>>11858649
For something really old, there's Twilight Warrior, which is remarkably good at achieving what it sets out to do in Vanilla with DeHacked, though it's inevitably simplistic.

Otherwise, the only really methodical and tactical gameplay mods is Hideous Destructor and its kin. HDest is well liked, though there's a learning curve and it's not for everyone, but if you like SWAT and Rainbow Six you're probably willing to learn.

There's a small amount of dedicated levelsets for HDest, but beyond that you'd be playing it with existing Doom levelsets, which is a big part of the appeal for many, that kind of relatively realistic and methodical tactical action and weapons handling but in oldschool FPS level design, together with absolutely fiendish supernatural monsters (which is something you basically will not find anywhere else). That doesn't always work out fully cleanly, but you have lots of means to play dirty and bend/break some encounters if needed, and there's a recommended list of suitable mapsets.

>>11858643
wish someone could do a quake 3 and daikatana treatment to Q2 textures

>>11858643
Its okay, but that soundtrack man...

>>11858116
>why can't I just have a nice friendly "test map" button like doom
I really don't understand why quake's scene hasn't argued for this. I don't see anyone ever bring it up

>>11858849
>hating Q2 soundtrack
im watching ur faggotry

>>11859140
I thought his post meant he liked it, Mr Styles?

>>11859140
>>11859168
Oh yeah, I liked it. Excellent music.

>>11859076

A big difference with the Quake seems to be that like half of them are professional game devs who do Quake as their little hobby horse, they are probably just already used to working with kinda obscure awkward workflows like that.

Trenchbroom kinda does support it, once you configure everything right you can compile and launch your engine with +map (yourmap) from inside the editor, but it's not as straightforward as hitting one button. I guess also the fact that fancypants pro mappers will want to use different compiling settings depending on what they are testing.

>>11859210
then all is fine in this world.

Few days early to be sharing development stuff, but finally got back to RTBW a bit
This time around, the STG44 and the first of the black coat guards wielding it.

As always, sprites are still placeholder, and basically just slightly touched up and reanimated from BW7, still going to be changed in the future, but I think I got the firing sound really nice this time around.

https://files.catbox.moe/ijw6pq.mp4

>>11858837
Meaning what, double resolution and true-color?
I feel like that's been done before.

>>11859219
i mean giving that comic book look Q3A and many late 90's games textures had that aged well

>>11859210
>>11859214
>anon had his doctor's note

>>11859076
Quake maps HAVE to be compiled to BSP in the vast majority of ports. Brush data isn't nearly as directly usable as Doom sectors. Best you can do is compile without lighting and VIS.
FTE can load uncompiled maps directly, but even then it will have collision and tradeline oddities - if not outright broken rendering.

>>11859212
>A big difference with the Quake seems to be that like half of them are professional game devs who do Quake as their little hobby horse
Not even. A lot of the zoomers who flocked to Quake after Trenchbroom came out did so in hopes of getting hired by indie (and """indie""") developers for retro-themed games. Many of them did not even finish Quake before they started mapping (they will literally admit this without an ounce of shame), yet they have an ArtStation portfolio for screenshots of their over-detailed maps that play like ass.
You'll see a few 'professionals' in that community, but they produce very little (especially recently) and are mostly there to farm e-clout.

>>11859265
>You'll see a few 'professionals' in that community, but they produce very little (especially recently) and are mostly there to farm e-clout.

Ehh I mean I guess but I wasn't talking about the literally whos, I mean like the guy behind AD is a pro, various others are pros. Meanwhile most of the "big names" in Doom are still just average joe internet with a copy of Doombuilder and weaponised autism

>>11859265
Also regarding

>Quake maps HAVE to be compiled to BSP in the vast majority of ports. Brush data isn't nearly as directly usable as Doom sectors. Best you can do is compile without lighting and VIS.
FTE can load uncompiled maps directly, but even then it will have collision and tradeline oddities - if not outright broken rendering.

I always wondered if it's possible that you could have it compile like, in real time, as you edit.Because as I understand it that's the major innovation with DoomBuilder that lets you see everything directly in editor before you even boot up the map to test.

But obviously yeah, doom is much simpler to do that for. I just wonder if there's anything phsyically preventing it or if it's just a matter of hardware speed.

>>11859370
unreal does this, no?

>>11859370
>I always wondered if it's possible that you could have it compile like, in real time, as you edit.
Sort of. You can load your .map file into lightpreview (comes bundled with ericw-tools), which compiles the map for you every time you save the map. The map can't have leaks, though.

>>11859384

I haven't used UnrealEd since like 2001 and yeah I think it let you see basically all changes in real time. But it was also a huge pain in the ass to actually use, none of this vertex manipulation and clipping etc like quakebroom. Like I remember you had to use other brushes to subtract from a square if you wanted to make any other type of geometry.

Or maybe just all 3D mapping tools were like that at some stage. Shit I was like fucking 12 years old it's amazing I got anywhere at all with it back then. Literally just following instructions that came on a text file on the Unreal CD.

I am old.

>>11859407
unrealed is way more sensible than any quake based editor. just that fact that you can subtract geometry *just like with doom*, is a huge plus. imagine if to draw a room in doom you had to draw four rectangles instead of just the one. and you'd also have to check for leaks. just awful. none of that in unreal

>>11859407
oh and to be precis, you could do subtractive geometry with quake too. nothing says a quake editor has to use additive brushes only

>>11859525
>>11859525
>>11859525

I love Doom.

>It's one of them squares, innit?

>>11857241
>I'd rather have the chaingun when "scouting about"
this would be a better approach in doom 2 because there are big meats everywhere and the stunlock could help you escape better than a shell or two, but in reality you'd just be using the super shotgun instead of either chain/sg anyway. in doom 1 you're going to run into zombies, imps and pinkies around every corner, so being able to fire off a single big hit (that might outright kill several enemies or heavily damage a larger one) and then duck back behind a wall is almost always the better approach than peppering a potential group with a few of bullets. bullets are also way too valuable for crowd control in open areas for you to waste them on ez cleanup kills. keeping the shotgun out is optimal a good 80% of the time in the original game.

>mapping enthusiast gives partial invis in Dead Simple
You haven't even seen their normal attack pattern yet. So weird. What even is that?

I love windows as an encounter design element. You can shoot enemies once you see them or you can fight them later when they're closer.
Do your maps make use of windows?

>>11860408
>I love windows

>>11860408
Yes!