i'm gonna say it
DOOM is not that good. the FPS genre didn't hit its stride until Quake

ok

Aw shit bros he said it
He dropped the SPICY HOT TAKE

I prefer shootan to 3D exploration some times, so Doom 1 wins out for mechanical and structural design.

Halo:CE is better.

>>11853550 (OP)

They are very different gameplay styles in my opinion.

Doom has more frantic and frenzied gunplay with complex level design, built generally around quicker encounters with multiple monsters.

Quake has slower more tactical gunplay and is more direct with its level design, built around longer encounters with fewer monsters.

Some days I'm in a Doom mood, some days I'm in a Quake mood.

>>11853550 (OP)
Doom is the better game but Quake was more important to the genre.

>>11853605
What makes the gunplay feel slower and more tactical for you?

>>11853605
Based

>>11853621

In Doom I'd be strafing in one direction for longer with a chain gun, and unless it was a room full of Cacos or Spiderdemons or Cyberdemons I'd generally be OK. I wouldn't be dodging grenades and rockets in quite the same way, and I wouldn't be as worried about having to use an explosive weapon at close quarters.

I'm not saying it's Thief tactical - Quake just requires slightly more thought not to be blown to pieces.

>>11853621
I would say Doom is slower for sure. The slow weapon switching encourages more considered approaches with what weapon you want to have on standby. Quake you can drop into a room with the GL ready and switch to the SNG in a half second and immediately lay down fire. Doom's long weapon switching in that same scenario can put you in a spot to survive for a moment until you find an opening to switch to a more effective weapon. They both work in different ways, but I prefer Quake with its physics and hitboxes it feels like it encourages more input intensive play. id seemed to know this by still having an input buffer for weapon switches.

The enemy attack patterns also push you way more in Quake. Fiends close distance, Ogres pollute the arena creating negative space extremely fast, knights pressure, death knights become a major priority target with their missiles and charge which pushes you into situations where you need to extremely swiftly negotiate space and parse their openings.

I love Doom, but I really feel Quake is better.

>>11853550 (OP)
Giving retarded takes isn't brave. It's retarded.

>>11853621
Quite honestly I find it to be the opposite to what that anon said, I always found Doom to be far slower and more tactical than Quake ever was.
Doom, particularly on higher difficulties requires you to stop and peak around corners if you plan on not dying constantly, quake on higher difficulties is more about dodging and constantly moving to avoid damage.
Now, the multiplayer is a whole other beast, Doom deathmatch is very frantic and fast with people dying constantly, quake can be like that but in my experience the engagements are far longer due to again, most of the weapons can be dodged and against 2 good players it's more about endurance and who fucks up first.

>>11853614
Needs Dark Messiah of Might and Magic with it's significant changes.

>>11853550 (OP)
I'm also gonna say it
Doom 64 is a better Doom game than Doom

>>11853737
>I can't believe the thing that came after the thing improved upon the original thing
I'm gonna say it, doom is better than wolfenstein 3d

I like both, but DOOM is a vastly better game. Quake's weapons suck ass, the enemies are terrible, there are barely any powerups, basically no real boss battles, and a lot less variety in terms of environments/aesthetics. The physics are fun and it's got killer atmosphere, but it is otherwise half the game that DOOM is.

>>11853550 (OP)
I like Doom better than Quake. Also >>11853591
this but unironically.

>>11853605
Pretty much this. IMO Doom has never had a real sequel (Doom II is an expansion and that's a good thing). There's no game that quite takes after its design. When I want to play a game 'like Doom', there's really only classic Doom.
Quake feels more closely related to games that came after it. HOWEVER, when I just want to play a game 'like Quake' I will still choose Quake over Half-Life, any later id Software game, or any indie boomer shooter clearly made in Quake's image like Dusk or Amid Evil.
Those 2 are just the peak of arcadey FPS and that's just as much a negative statement about the broader industry as it is positive for each game themselves.

>>11853865
>There's no game that quite takes after its design.
Google "doom clones" zoomie

>>11853873
>uh I bet he doesn't know what Doom clones are
lmao
I've played several, but even other id Tech 1 games don't feel as good mechanically as Doom does. Duke and Blood have awesome level design but I kinda dislike some of Duke's enemies and weapons, which like Blood seem more on the bloated side. Blood's fast reaction time hitscan hell on higher difficulties also makes it more slow and tactical at times. Playing those games generally don't make me think of Doom at all.
One of Doom's greater strengths to me is that it feels very spartan in design. With Doom II especially, there's no enemy that just drags the experience down, there's no weapon you'll just forget you have. In terms of pure mechanics, it feels like it's as in the goldilocks zone as an FPS can be.

>>11853865
Play Heretic immediately

>>11853914
Tried it recently because it seemed to be the most well-received id Tech 1 game next to Doom itself. I might come back to it eventually but it wasn't really hitting off with me. Maybe it was the weapon selection

>>11853621
Is there a word to describe this style of posting? It's like an evolved form of smugposting and coomerbait but it's vidya webms instead.
>baity question from previous post to farm (You)s with no real discourse follow up
>"in your face" gameplay with a lot going on like a YouTube short
>"why do you think that when clearly this is so good, just look at this gameplay"
If Quake had ubiquitous R34 art like Mario the webm could be swapped with a blue board safe coom image and reveal itself as a "is coffee good for you" post.

>>11854391
What do you mean "in your face" gameplay? That's just normal gameplay.

>>11854391
>Heh... so the gunplay "feels" slower, and... more "tactical" to you?
>Heh... yeah... maybe... by the way, here's a webm of some sick, totally fast gameplay... not that I'm implying anything by posting it, I'm merely interested in your opinion, and this webm is a nice garnish for the conversation... Yeah, "tactical"... Maybe... or, you're just playing a little differently from me, heh...

>>11853591
Halo is gay and Half Life is better. The multiplayer too, because it's Counter Strike.

I can't believe op just said that

>>11853614
I recognize that bulge

Doom holds up way better for fps ethusiasts. Far better flow and balance. Quake is great but its not addictive and its more shallow

>>11853550 (OP)
>the FPS genre didn't hit its stride until Quake
I agree with you.

You said it, brother!

Worst thing about Quake is lack of map. Why did they have to shit up an entire game like that? Laziness?

>>11855319
>no automap in the Quakes, Unreal, Half-Lifes, etc
It stopped being necessary once the levels stopped being large, maze-like, and less abstract.

>>11855338
That's very subjective. Maps are extremely helpful, even with a simpler level design. I got lost in fucking Halo several times while having no problems in Hexen because of the map.

>>11855359
I haven’t had much if any issue navigating these “”more 3D”” games so it’s certainly subjective.

>>11853550 (OP)
FPS is only really fun when playing multiplayer, so yea, Quake was better.

>>11854391
It's just rage bait bro, I don't mind it because 90% of the time you get some kind of real discussion going.
At the end of the day it's all clickbait.

>>11855519
>90% of the time you get some kind of real discussion going.
That's often what I'm hoping for and precisely what I got, three genuinely solid responses from different perspectives.

>>11853550 (OP)
If you haven't beaten Doom with pistol start only and without saving, you haven't beaten it
Don't care about quake, can't polish a turd

>>11855589
>If you haven't beaten Doom with pistol start only and without saving, you haven't beaten it
Pistol start can be a fun challenge but it's ultimately pretty gay and not really how the game was meant to be played since most levels accounted for possibility of the player having gear from the previous level. The real DOOM experience is playing on UV and trying to clear each episode without dying or scumming. I'd wager 99% of people who play DOOM couldn't beat E1, let alone the later episodes deathless on UV.

>>11855602
>>11855589
Baby mode
>savestate every 2 mins
>load save when anything goes slightly wrong

I swear I'm not a baby! mode
>make a checkpoint save every 3 or 5 mins

How the game was intended to be played mode
>arcade/shmup like design where you get to keep your weapons if you play well but if you die you restart the current stage over from scratch and have to build up your stock again until the next death

Challenge mode
>pistol start every level

>>11855618
Pistol starting each level is a lot easier than making it through 7-8 levels without dying. You could say, "just pistol start each level, but start from the beginning if you die", but that feels kind of gay and retarded and long-term planning is part of the gameplay. Deathless UV episode-by-episode method respects the design intention while also providing one of the greatest challenges.

>doom was intended to be played this way
>no it was intended to be played this way
Post sources or fuck off.

>>11853591
Based and true

>>11855676
>TIP: Save your game and save it often. When you die, you're back to the beginning of the level, toting that little pistol again. That ain't good, especially after you progress to some of the tougher levels.
Quake probably isn't as "shotgun start friendly" with its pickups because it autosaves the start of each level so dying doesn't reset your inventory. You have to go out of your way with a level warp to get shotgun starts.

>>11855676
>point of the game is to not die
>if you do die, you lose your gear as punishment for being shit
>ergo, the devs intended for you to survive as long as possible and keep your guns as long as possible

>>11855676
You should play in ways you find interesting. For instance, complaining about savescumming in the game you're playing is a self-imposed problem. I personally find Doom the most tense and dynamic with no saves mid-level and losing my weapons when I die. The irony of thinking Doom of all things is supposed to be this strict arcade experience with the dev having dictatorial control over the player experience shouldn't be lost on anyone. There are few games in existence more valued for their modularity.
You'd never hear Romero or Carmack saying that.

>>11855701
>point of the game is to not die
False, you die at the end of E1.

>>11855643
Why UV and not Nightmare?

>>11855741
Because nightmare is a literal meme difficulty by the dev's own account, which is why it says "this difficulty isn't even remotely fair, are you sure?" when you select it. It fundamentally changes the gameplay too, because monsters respawn. If you can beat nightmare deathless or even just pistol starting then kudos, but it's practically a different game mode because success boils down to time and (potentially) avoiding content outright, rather than cleaning up levels.

>>11853907
So you googled doom clones

>>11855867
>>>/v/

>>11855763
Fair enough, I definitely agree with that point about it changing the game. I think it works fine in Doom 1, which is what I play it on, but in basically every single other doom game and WAD, it's pretty ass.

bimpp

>>11853550 (OP)
I don't like the tryhard skill-based aiming in Quake. I prefer Doom because I can focus on exploration and I don't have to worry about aiming vertically.

>>11857764
>ugh i hate having to aim at things and shoot them!
think you're in the wrong thread buddy

>>11857764
>skill-based aiming

>>11853550 (OP)
the singleplayer is a million times worse than doom

>>11853656

I concur with this Anon's sentiments.

I have been playing Doom practically my entire life, but it took me a lot longer to truly appreciate Quake. I think it's an acquired taste but if you have played the best both have to offer, I think it is clear the skill ceiling and intensity of Quake is far higher; and Quake can achieve its upper levels of intensity without resorting to sheer spam of monsters like Doom has to.

>>11855319
That's my biggest problem with it as well. Tbf, I can understand why it'd be hard to make a good automap for a full 3D game. Descent had one but it wasn't exactly easy to use.
>>11855338
>It stopped being necessary once the levels stopped being large, maze-like, and less abstract.
You mean like the levels in Quake? Quake II was more manageable with how linear its levels were, but even that game trips me up sometimes.

>>11859068
>>It stopped being necessary once the levels stopped being large, maze-like, and less abstract.
>You mean like the levels in Quake?
The closest Quake gets to “mazy” are some of Sandy Petersen’s fourth level episodes, and none of those get close to Doom 1’s Computer Station or Deimos Labs.

>>11859102
You underestimate how terrible my spatial reasoning is.

>>11853550 (OP)
>DꝎM is not that good.
DꝎM is great and will forever be the definitive FPS, even if t's not better than Quake. The community created great content for it, so it evens out.
>The FPS genre didn't hit its stride until Quake.
Half-Life is better, but it's technically a heavily modified Quake, so I guess your point still stands.

After DOOM 1 the levels got mazy and had stupid gimmicks. There's a level in DOOM 2 where you have to shoot a wall with the same textures you've seen a bunch of times before to go further. It's stupid and cryptic.

Quake is designed in a way that your guided through the levels without your hand being held. It makes alot more sense and alot more fun

>>11853873
Dumb fucking nigger.

>>11859487
Yeah, Quake made some improvements to level design. If only they had remembered to include fun weapons, powerups and enemies.

>>11858378
This is a common belief and why British FPS's were so popular.

I've tried to like Quake. I played through the whole game but I have zero memories of it. Not a single thing was memorable to me, aside from the fact that it's one of the ugliest games I've ever played.