Racing games needed to go 3D to actually capitalize on their potential. There was too much that couldn't be done when 2D was all they had to work with.

>>11855415 (OP)
The "same" spot just one generation later, BTW. Can't even compare.

>>11855415 (OP) (OP)
The "same" spot just one generation later, BTW. Can't even compare.

>>11855415 (OP)
The "same" spot just one generation later, BTW. Can't even compare.

The difference between 2D and 3D racing games is even greater than the difference between 2D and 3D platformers, they often play completely differently.
Besides when it comes to 2D racers you almost have several completely different rages between the top down racers, the isometric racers, and the first person/behind the car view ones.

That's such a normie opinion that only comes from someone who doesn't play 2D racers.

>>11855437
Looks terrible. You can't see ahead of you so it's just memorization of the course.

>>11855448
Track acclimatization is a skill in real racing, dumbass.

Not OP but 3D is stupidly important to stealth games. I've tried several top rated 2D indie games that attempt to interpret the things that work in 3D stealth games into side scrollers, and it just doesn't work and it's often way more frustrating and a lot less calculating.

>>11855415 (OP)
For realism, that's true, but it also took a long fucking time until 3D racers were realistic. But for actual fun, as the videos above show, 2D could do it without breaking a sweat. To this day I still prefer SNES F-Zero to any of the newer releases

>>11855457
It's not simply about realism, though. The ability to create compelling circuit designs pretty much requires things like elevation changes and modeling corners of differing depth and radii. Every turn looks the same in a 2D racing game, there's no way to create identifiable locales and landmarks.

>>11855451
>side scrollers,
wtf no shit. They need to be top-down or isometric

>>11855479
Oh just to be clear, I didn't really like the top down or isometric ones either.

>>11855415 (OP)
Yes, racing games don't have much choice but to be in 3D. That's why games as old as Revs and Indy500 were already in 3D in the 1980s.
I've never liked games that use this technique of shifting horizontal lines to create the illusion of curves. That shit never worked right.

While 3D really did break racing games out of their shell, I still enjoy and think 2D racing/driving games that take the player from point A to point B work like Outrun, Road Rash, Road Blasters, and so on. 2D really isn't as good with a looping circut like design, but it isn't unsalvagable.

Plus even the limitations of relying on sprite artwork comes into play because expecting artists to draw every single scenery change across an entire course would be very demanding and a LOT of data to store on a cartridge. Old racing games had to keep the trackside graphics simple simply for matters of practicality.

>>11855487
My favorite racing game is still super hang-on. The sense of speed in it is really good, plus it's super fun because you constantly can use turbo and the game is really tough. Even the beginnner course is hard as nails.

>>11855530
>The sense of speed in it is really good

That's definitely a thing 2D racers have over 3D ones. It's a lot easier to create amazingly fast sense of speed, and they often require greater reflexes than 3D racers. With even just 3 ms of input lag, in Rad Racer you're totally fucked.

>>11855449
>anti-memotards when they realize racecar drivers and musicians are just memorizing

>>11855548
To be fair track acclimatization probably swings the argument more in favor of 3D racing games because 2D racing games are missing way too many things that you would need to actually put that skill to work (landmarks, signposts, being able to see into an apex, etc.), nor can they be complex enough to even require it.

>>11855536
Modern racers just always try to be so realistic, so there is a lot of downtime in it, where you just drive forwards. Arcade games go straight to the point without wasting your time.
I guess Wipeout also had a good speed feel. In harder leages the game became almost unplayable because the ships are super fast and there are corners everywhere.

>>11855536
But yea I guess you are right. In 3d your surroundings kind of just become a blur, but in 2d you really feel the sprites moving faster.

>>11855554
It's so obvious you don't play the games you're talking about

The biggest problem with 2D games is the behavior of the car. They say that World Rally Fever is actually 2D, using tricks just to create the illusion of 3D, which I don't think is true. I think the courses in that game are within a 3D environment, like every sprite and object around them, but that doesn't matter for the sake of this discussion. What matters is that in that game, the car's behavior is not intuitive.
Two track corners that look the same visually cause the car to behave differently. This is typical of 2D games where the visual representation of things is not perfect and the car's behavior is not based on physics.
One thing that every racing game needs to have, whether arcade or simulator, is an intuitive driving model. If in the real world you play with a RC car or drive a real car, both will be extremely intuitive, so that's the least you expect from all racing games, and that's almost always lacking in 2D games (and in more primitive 3D games as well).

Example: World Rally Fever:

https://youtu.be/RtJzSV5BBuE?si=T_bpkx1l3o2Y6GDM&t=64

>>11855415 (OP)
This but for all games.

>>11855556
Yeah, Wipeout is very dependant on track knowledge to know when to start turning or possibly using the air brake. It is satisfying when you pull it off.

There's some nice 2D racing games
Top Gear series
Outrun
Power Drift
Mille Miglia
Neo Drift Out
Slipstream (both the arcade F1 game and the indie modern one)
Biker Mice from Mars
Lotus (a bit of a downgraded top gear)

But the 3D feeling and heaviness of the car is something only a 3D race game have, but 2D is completely fine for a more arcade approach.
I just wish someone remake Stunt Race FX, nice game but the FPS are rough

oh it's this autist again

>>11855651
But I just wanted my own version of that Quake thread.

>>11855620
Super Hang-On is the best because it was the game which spawned the Super Scale engne that was used in Outrun too. It was the Mode 7 of that time. Plus the game had a motorbike cabinet which is more fun than just having a steering wheel.

>>11855664
It maybe be great and really fast, but it's too hard for me.

>>11855689
Yea, I can understand that. The game is somewhat of a quarter muncher with the tight time limits. You basically can't crash at all, which is a bit unbalanced I think.

>>11855697
Yeah, it would be better if you get up faster after the crashes or the time limit was longer. Outrun was better balanced in this aspect

>>11855415 (OP)
>>11855426
>2 different camera angles
Dumb retard

I understand the idea that 2D racing games should have some sort of intrinsic video game value separate from their poor simulation of the actual sport but in practice it doesn't feel like anyone gives two flying fucking shits about any of them besides a couple arcade games that had really cool hardware gimmicks like Hang-On and britjank enthusiasts getting something relatively competent.

>>11855906
Maybe you should leave your 4chan gooner bubble and go talk to people who actually like video games in a not-retarded way

>>11857169
I'm sorry I left out the tendiecore SNES games tendie

>>11857174
>4chan retard reply
I guess it's hopeless

>>11855697
>>11855746
Time limits and traffic density were set with dipswitches and varied from place to place, but the game is very difficult if you can't get the hang of leaning into corners and braking when needed

>>11855906
Arcade games are usually only played boomers or binge gamers. They are a niche and don't have mainstream appeal like a Nintendo F-Zero 99 does.

>>11857178
Great now that you've learned you can fuck off to somewhere that's interested in you being a massive cunt.

>>11857210
>calls old racing games bad
>I'm the cunt
no, you're just a retard

>>11855415 (OP)
I think that's a myth based on there just being too many shitty 2D racers. The thing that's hard for modern gamers to get a sense of is just how many old racing games in both 2D and 3D were a scam.

In the 2D days, MOST racing games were a scam. There are examples of good 2D racers, starting in the 80s with Pole Position, Hang On! and Outrun, and even PC/Console franchises in the 90s such as Road Rash, Top Gear, and Lotus Turbo Challenge. But a huge number of the racing games released in those years were just shitty clones of the good games. You'd just make an outrun style engine that ran at 8 FPS, slap on some license like Ford or F1 or Mario Andretti, and put some cool screenshots on the back. And that's like 80% of the racing library on 16 bit consoles.
The scam persisted into the 3D era, we were still getting "Ford Racing" games with like 10 cars in the PS2/Wii days, but at least by that point it wasn't the majority of racing games.

>>11857216
Interpreting something being called unpopular as calling it bad because it threatens your fragile self centered ego that other people don't like the same things you pretend to then sperging out about how everyone but you is stupid and addicted to masturbating is being a cunt, yes.

>>11857229
>no I didn't say that i just said they're unpopular
>they're unpopular I swear source my butthole
no, you're just a retard

>>11857231
You are brown

>>11857234
>i'm racist btw
no, you're just a retard

>>11855415 (OP)
Someone could make a racing sim with four point physics and implement the graphics using pseudo-3d sprite scaling (eg. the style of top gear, out run, hang on, rad racer, etc.) The visual representation doesn't require a certain specific modelling of the game physics.

>>11855457

Oh come on dude, SNES F-Zero is 3D. Yes it's very crude 3D but it's 3D. It isn't "fake" just because it relies on a very very limited gimmick built into the hardware.

First-person/behind-the-car racing games have always very badly needed 3D graphics. I agree with OP to that extent. I would call, say, the graphics in the SNES Top Gear games "fake 3D" because what you see of the 3D world in that type of game doesn't ever completely make sense, and because you aren't allowed to ever turn the camera and look at things from a different angle. F-Zero though, that's a real 3D world. The cars are fake 3D, but that's a minor detail. The world is truly 3D, and the game benefits enormously from that.

I don't have a lot of experience with Sega's Super Scaler racing games, but I think I'd probably call at least some of that real 3D too. Yes the technique used to draw the world produces severe graphical artifacts, but you can basically see the 3D track in, say, Power Drift, and the camera can clearly fly around it and rotate freely without completely destroying the image (even if it looks a mess at times).

It's silly to claim that drawing a clearly 3D model out of lots of billboards is 2D drawing, or that drawing a 2D plane flying all around in what's clearly a 3D space does not involve 3D graphics.

>>11857324
I don't consider Mode 7 racers to be 3D racing games because they can't do elevation whatsoever. Functionally they're just a top down racer with a scaling trick to make the background look like it's at an angle, the world is literally 2D.

>>11857378

>>11857391
That the camera doesn't move when you jump in F-Zero only proves my point. Lots of top down games do basic things like that, as well as sidescrollers with foreground/background movement.

>>11857324
>F-Zero is 3D.
It's 2d.

a pet dream of mine would be to make a hardcore sim that could conceivably run on a SNES or Genesis.

>>11855590
>They say that World Rally Fever is actually 2D, using tricks just to create the illusion of 3D, which I don't think is true.

It's certainly not 3D

>>11857391
>SNES F-Zero is 3D

>>11855415 (OP)
I'd like to see a game even more sprite packed than slipstream

racing games peaked with virtua racing on the 32x

>>11860028
This is peak comfy that few know about. I don't even like racing games but I can do stock car races in this game for hours. And yes, I'm aware you can play the arcade game and "better" ports, but the 32x just hits the aesthetic in a way the others don't.

>>11855451
The fifth stage in Ranger X on Genesis is probably the best 2d stealth game I've played. Try giving it a spin.

Basically you drive a light powered mecha, and the level takes place at night in a city. You run out of power (power is just fuel for your special weapon) and get limited to your useless basic gun. The only way to recharge is to fly into the rotating headlights to soak up some rays and recharge your power bar fast, but this creates a citywide alert and you get attacked by every parked ship in the sector, plus drones that always fly behind you. You can down the parked ships fairly easy, but the drones are tricker to handle and may need you to use up the power you just recharged.

So you either play high-risk-high-reward and blaze through the level with constantly recharging power and infinite special attack fuel, or you take it slowly and stealthily and fly around the city avoiding the moving headlights.

>>11855515
>expecting artists to draw every single scenery change across an entire course would be very demanding and a LOT of data to store on a cartridge

Super Hang-On had ~40+ sceneries on something like a 8 meg cartridge, plus a full career mode on top.

>>11855590
>They say that World Rally Fever is actually 2D, using tricks just to create the illusion of 3D, which I don't think is true.

It was a sprite scaler game like Sega's Rad Mobile or Power Drift.

>>11860028

Along with Space Harrier, After Burner & Virtua Fighter, this justifies the 32X existing.

>>11860235
*Stellar Assault

This looks better by far than first gen 3D racers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcCZLP7x4Es

>>11860254
No it's not.
Daytona, Ridge Racer, Indy 500, Sega Rally, Dirt Dash - all look better.

>>11860286

Not only wrong but gay and african as well

>>11860254
It's a 1995 game you dumb fuck. Daytona USA is 1994, Ridge Racer is 1993, both mog Slipstream easily

>slipstream
more like slopstream

>>11860303
Fun fact: it was made for the Brazilian market using the old Sega System 32, since by then the technology was way cheaper than the newer 3D boards.

>>11860793
remember when consoles and their components used to get cheaper over time?

>>11857324
F-Zero is just applying a simple perspective trick in a 2D plane. But really, just the fact that there is perspective in the first place makes it more "3D" than many SNES racing games.

>>11857391