What are some of the most persistent memes, falsehoods, or bullshit stories you hear about old video games?

For me, it's "piracy killing the Dreamcast meme"
>Sega had already fired 1/3rd of its workforce by 1999
>By 1995 they had so much unsold inventory of Genesis and Game Gear games they were having to waste money buying back
>This inventory buy-back and early Saturn launch soured relationship with retailers
>Sega was so in the shit, Bandai offered to buy them in 1997
>Sega also gets into a lawsuit with 3Dfx for an early design of the Dreamcast that 3dfx leaked to the public (sega paid out of court settlement)
>The CEO who spearheaded Dreamcast development, Bernie Stollar, is fired for selling the system at a money losing price ($200)
>The system's launch in Japan is a failure, mainly due to a chip shortage from NEC
>PS2 announced by March 1999, offeres built in DVD playback and back compat with all PS1 games
>In 2000, Sega had to pay settlements to employees for abusing them in Japan
>By Summer 2000, Sega still has millions of unsold systems in their warehouses
>coincidentally, in June 2000 is when the first games get cracked
>they aren't self-booting
>this at a time when most are still using dail-up
>not even half of the library is available to download
>most of the rips are shitty
>games that the 1 gig GDROM capacity have to remove assets to fit on a CD
>yet somehow, "piracy is what killed the Dreamcast" in January 2001 after they've spent years losing money on Saturn, pissing off retailers, paying legal fees, and firing staff
How does anyone still believe this meme? Are they retarded to all the shit Sega had going on even before Dreamcast launched in 1998? Do they not understand how stupid it is for a company to leave the HARDWARE business when they were dealing with SOFTWARE piracy?

>>11844692

>>11858347 (OP)
>dreamcast didnt die because of piracy
Unfathomably based anon

>>11858347 (OP)
>most people are clueless faggots spreading misinformation
Breaking news!

>>11858363
Didn't see it in the catalog

>>11858347 (OP)
>What are some of the most persistent memes, falsehoods, or bullshit stories you hear about old video games?
"Piracy saved the PS1"
"Everyone bought PS2 because of the DVD"

Sour grapes make it seem like those system didn't have incredible game catalogues and that PS2 didn't inherit any hype from the PS1.

>>11858347 (OP)
Not reading all that but it's common knowledge that piracy did in fact kill the dreamcast.

>>11858490
Cope

>>11858493
It's common knowledge the only one coping the OP of this thread.

>>11858490
>>11858516
Oh look, it's the retard who loves baiting with his debunked meme. Wondered when you would show up.

>>11858536
You wouldn't know since you weren't born but those of us that were alive remember piracy killing the dreamcast. Piracy became popular and then it died

>>11858562
Poser faggot

>>11858567
Stop signing your posts

>>11858562
>Piracy became popular and then it died
In all of six months where hardly any games were self booting and people were stuck on dail-up. Meanwhile, Sega was already planning to kill the system when piracy was barely taking off. But keep lying and forcing your bullshit.

>>11858625
You are just pulling that out of your ass. Sega never had any plans to shutdown dreamcast until it started failing as a result of piracy. If you were actually alive you would remember that they shutdown directly after piracy killed game sales. Stop pulling shit out of your ass without proof.

>>11858640
>Sega never had any plans to shutdown dreamcast until it started failing as a result of piracy
Six months of barely functioning piracy doesn't kill a console overnight you stupid fuck. The PSP had just as much piracy of software and it didn't kill it.
>Stop pulling shit out of your ass without proof.
Gladly.
>Sega was already considering merging with Bandai in 1997
>DC copy protection wasn't broken until June 2000
https://web.archive.org/web/20141016220612/https://medium.com/@michaelgapper/land-of-the-free-467f0eb2f395
>Sega already had a massive revenue drop by 1996
https://mdshock.com/2021/04/14/segas-financial-troubles-an-analysis-of-export-revenue-1991-1998/
These incidents alone show how fucked Sega was and how the Dreamcast was a hail mary pass at best.

>>11858347 (OP)
You wrote all that and stil can't see the simple fact that none of that even matters compared to the impossible-to-overcome problem of having a customer install base of people who will never buy another legal game. You can't see the forest for the trees.

>>11858683
The problem with the install base was there were no games on the DC zoom zoom

>>11858683
You can't post a single source that piracy had any effect outside of anecdotal sources. How about you back your claims up faggot.

Meanwhile, here's more shit to chew on that you'll just ignore. I've already accepted your concessions.

>>11858702
I'm not the one making ridiculous claims. Post your source that Sega chose to shutdown Dreamcast before piracy ruined it's sales.

>>11858774
He doesn't have one because it's fantasy. By the time pirating DC was possible everyone had already moved in to ps2. DC has one good year

>>11858347 (OP)
>What are some of the most persistent memes, falsehoods, or bullshit stories you hear about old video games?
It’s not a thing anymore since the DS version and the original source code are out there, but the “Luigi can be unlocked in Mario 64” bs lasted for the entire Web 1.0 era afaik. I fell for it as a kid and wracked my brain trying to figure out what I’d done wrong in the convoluted set of instructions forum posters said you had to follow to get him as a playable character. It’s probably also the oldest instance of internet trolling I can recall.

>>11858802
Mark Discordia is the first I remember

>>11858774
>Post your source that Sega chose to shutdown Dreamcast before piracy ruined it's sales.
They were already developing games for handhelds by other companies (Sonic for NGPC, Sakura Wars for Gameboy Color). EGM was already printing editorials in late 2000 Sega was likely exiting before the announcement in 2001. Steve Kent interviewed Sega's VP or Marketing saying they "weren't manufacturing, but the system isn't discontinued", then later saying they "had no plans to start manufacturing again" all but admitting the system was dead.
https://youtu.be/1xO2siRQTfU?si=tcTJ9R7PkEX-FQZJ&t=1003

NO WHERE is piracy mentioned. If it was such a big problem they would've brow beat people to stop fucking doing it, just like how Lars Ulrich was doing around the same time Napster was being sued. If piracy was such a big problem, you'd have the industry shaming it. Not to mention you still had NEW GAMES made for Dreamcast after it was discontinued. Why the fuck would anyone keep making games for a system if "piracy' was such a problem? Also why the fuck would a company leave the HARDWARE business if their problem was SOFTWARE piracy?

Post your sources where someone from Sega said piracy killed it, faggot. Because no one--not Hideki Sato, Peter Moore--from Sega has claimed that.

>>11858490
there was nothing to pirate you faggot the DreamSCAT died because it had no worthwhile games

>>11858490
If piracy was a problem the PS1 and PS2 would have crashed and burned too.

>>11858347 (OP)
>something clearly falling apart ACKTUALLY failed because [meme reason]
this shit happens all the fucking time. humanity is so retarded it's unreal

>>11858852
That doesn't prove anything you are saying. Anyone knew by March 2001 when that was published that the console was fucked due to low sales which was directly caused by piracy. Making games for other handhelds has nothing to do with your point either since the game gear was discontinued before the dreamcast was even released. It's obvious you just hate sega and don't want to look at the facts.

>>11858901
>low sales caused by piracy
Low sales do to low attachment zoom zoom. People bought SC, maybe sonic adventure, a sports game and then a ps2

>>11858347 (OP)
Only Piratefags like you beLIEve it's false. You guys blame everything BUT the piracy. Piracy killed the Dreamcast because without those software sales, there's no way for Sega to make money, especially for the losses they were taking in an attempt to install a bigger fanbase by making the Dreamcast cost $199 instead of $250. So by the time they decided to give Dreamcast out for free via a 2-year contract with SegaNET, it was already too late because Dreamcast games were being pirated left and right, being sold for $5 bucks by some fat ugly dude who owned a PC with a CD burner installed. He ate a lot of McDonald's that day.

>>11858901
>That doesn't prove anything you are saying. Anyone knew by March 2001 when that was published
Try "January" 2001, you retard. And by January, that means it was on stands in late November, and was written earlier that month. Almost three whole months before Sega announced the system's death publicly at the end of the actual month of January 2001.
https://archive.org/details/ElectronicGamingMonthly_201902/Electronic%20Gaming%20Monthly%20Issue%20138%20%28January%202001%29/page/n5/mode/2up
>the console was fucked due to low sales which was directly caused by piracy
Back your claims up then retard. I already backed up mine.
>>11858913
Read the thread dumbass.

>>11858347 (OP)
>By 1995 they had so much unsold inventory of Genesis and Game Gear games they were having to waste money buying back
>This inventory buy-back and early Saturn launch soured relationship with retailers
>Sega was so in the shit, Bandai offered to buy them in 1997
>Sega also gets into a lawsuit with 3Dfx for an early design of the Dreamcast that 3dfx leaked to the public (sega paid out of court settlement)
>The CEO who spearheaded Dreamcast development, Bernie Stollar, is fired for selling the system at a money losing price ($200)
Those are all true.

>>11858906
>muh attachment rates
Doesn't prove jack and shit.

Yeah. that's what I though faggot.

>>11858852
That doesn't prove anything you are saying. Anyone knew by March 2001 when that was published that the console was fucked due to low sales which was directly caused by piracy. Making games for other handhelds has nothing to do with your point either since the game gear was discontinued before the dreamcast was even released. It's obvious you just hate sega and don't want to look at the facts.

>>11858924
Not reading all that misinfo, when mine is 100% correct.

>>11858934
Kek so the guy Im arguing with is an assmad janny

>>11858937
You were correct to delete your post out of embarrassment earlier.
>>11858940
Concession accepted.
>deleted again
LMAO
>>11858941
Nope. Maybe back your claims up with evidence that isn't conjecture?

>>11858943
You can't even delete your own posts that long after you post them. I reposted it because it was deleted by you

>>11858958
Concession accepted. No quotes from developers or the console maker itself, just faggoty passive aggressiveness. Why can't you accept Sega was so deep in the red the Dreamcast was bound to fail?

>9 games per console in less than 2 years
Doesn't seem like Piracy did shit.

>>11858347 (OP)
>had to make a thread which spelled out the idea because actual autists couldn't understand the concept facetious funposting in the original thread
sad board

>>11858976
Until it did. No Dreamcast user would ever buy a tenth game.

>>11858990
You wanna post your sources faggot? Again, Why can't you accept Sega was so deep in the red the Dreamcast was bound to fail?

What's going on with this thread? all the mass deletion of non-rule breaking posts.

>>11858967
Why was that post deleted? Are you literally an angry and coping jannie?

https://warosu.org/vr/thread/11858347
holy cringe

>>11859004
I'm not since the janny deleted one of my replies to that dumbass' unfounded posts.

I'm impressed Famicom has gone this long without saying "seek help"

Delete this post too

So this is why this board is dead, huh.

Shenmue's development damaged the dreamcast more than any piracy could've.

>>11858924
Your post was full of disinfo. Mine was completely accurate. Not my fault you can't debunk my valid points.

>>11859104
>DREAMCAST DIED BECAUSE PIRACY REEEEEEEEE NO I DON'T HAVE EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP
>valid points
Pick one.

>>11859039
>>11859046
Yeah, I've noticed there's some deleted post and one of my posts was falsely flagged, but luckily that didn't get taken down as I didn't violate any of the rules. They don't like people who disagree with their stance on whether or not piracy killed the Dreamcast.

>>11859105
I don't see you posting sources or evidence. Try again.

>>11859109
>I don't see you posting sources or evidence.
I did.
>>11858669
>>11858702
>>11858852
>>11858924
Sega was DEEP in the fucking RED when Dreamcast launched. At best, it was a genuine God given miracle it could save the company. At worst, they had no business making Dreamcast to begin with because manufacturing the system was going to kill them. And it all stemmed from the poor choices they made as far back as the mid 90s.

>>11858683
That was all uncommon until well after the Dreamcast was discontinued and DCs were being some for 30 bucks on half.com with accessories.
I had a normie friend come to me in 2005 with a 2nd hand Dreamcast to burn games. People weren't doing it much during the Dreamcasts lifetime.
Overstated issue.

>Troll
>Schizo
>Fanboy trying desperately to pin the Dreamcast's failure on anything other than Sega
Whichever one it is, it's getting tiresome. The mods should just permaban and be done with it.

I can tell Janny is OP because posts keeps getting deleted. Pathetic.

>>11858347 (OP)
>they aren't self-booting
You get the boot disc, problem solved.
And later on you had guides online on how to make discs selfboot, if you wanted to bother.

>this at a time when most are still using dail-up
The only people who pirated games off of the net were the people with Cable or T1 or universities. Everyone else just bought shit from street vendors. I still have some price lists.

>not even half of the library is available to download
The good ones were, new games got available soon after launch, and more and more old titles got added, literally every day there was a new release. The price list I still have saved dates to 2001 June and has 250 titles available and that's just what the guy over here had, there were more games online.

>most of the rips are shitty
The worst problem was some games missing cd audio, which was fucking nothing.

>yet somehow, "piracy is what killed the Dreamcast"
Over here, software sales basically all died up once the boot discs came out. Hardware sales were not affected, but people stopped buying originals. And if software does not sell, then publishers don't have a reason to publish new games, do they?

Yes, piracy killed the Dreamcast.

>>11859130
>That was all uncommon until well after the Dreamcast was discontinued and DCs were being some for 30 bucks on half.com with accessories.
Simply not true.

>>11858467
>"Piracy saved the PS1"
Didn't need to because it had nearly no opposition, N64 was an utter garbage failure everywhere outside the US, Playstation basically ruled the console business in the latter half of the 90s. N64 games cost 2-4x as much and nearly all multiplatforms were garbage on N64. It was a Mario/Zelda/Rare machine.

>"Everyone bought PS2 because of the DVD"
No, people bought it because it was the most hyped up machine in history. Supercomputing in a console, Emotion Engine, 75 million Polygons Per Second, not allowed to be sold to Iraq because it could run ballistic missiles, that sorts of shit was all in the news.

But it playing DVDs was a gigantic key factor in it selling as good as it did, because nearly nobody had DVDs yet. And oh my look at that DVD sales SKYROCKETED after the PS2 launch what a coincidence surely that had nothing to do with millions of PS2s with DVD playback hitting the markets.

>>11858886
PS1 kept getting new revisions to battle piracy and PS2 had publishers actively releasing everything on DVDs to combat piracy (DVD burners were not available or not cheap enough in the early years).

>>11858852
They didn't brow beat anyone because Gaming was still seen as a thing for children or hipsters (GTA and Halo did not exist yet, PS2 was barely out the market), and Sega wouldn't admit to their console having a problem even today let alone in 2001.

>just like how Lars Ulrich was doing around the same time Napster was being sued
Napster allowed you to get any fucking song in less than a minute, it was a paradigm shift in content distribution that threatened a multi trillion entertainment industry.

>why the fuck would a company leave the HARDWARE business if their problem was SOFTWARE piracy?
They make money on selling software, with the hardware just being a platform for it. If nobody buys your software because they can get it for $5 under the counter, then the hardware is now useless as a platform, and their only choice is to kill it and then move on to releasing software at four existing platforms.

>EGM was already printing editorials in late 2000
EGM is and always was full of shit. Did you manage to find Shen Long in SF2 yet?

>>11859130
>That was all uncommon until well after the Dreamcast was discontinued and DCs were being some for 30 bucks on half.com with accessories.

Dreamcast was down to $50 by late 2001, $25 if you bought it used at gamestop.

Of course it was only on the market for... 15 or so months before they announced it being discontinued, so an extra year after that is basically after 75% of its life cycle, which can be considered "well after the Dreamcast was discontinued".

>>11859451
>You get the boot disc, problem solved.
No regular person was going scour those in favor not buying a legit game they could just boot up.
>The only people who pirated games off of the net were the people with Cable or T1 or universities. Everyone else just bought shit from street vendors.
Where do you live, but that wasn't the case in the US.
>The good ones were, new games got available soon after launch, and more and more old titles got added, literally every day there was a new release
No they weren't.
>The price list I still have saved dates to 2001 June
Six months after the platform died and Sega became a third party. Not an argument.
>The worst problem was some games missing cd audio, which was fucking nothing.
So now games like Virtual On which used redbook audio now have no music. No one is going to pirate that.
>Over here, software sales basically all died up once the boot discs came out.
Where do you live dipshit?
>And if software does not sell, then publishers don't have a reason to publish new games, do they
Or they already have advanced knowledge of the system dying like how Valve and Gearbox did when they cancelled their port of Halflife.
>piracy killed the Dreamcast.
In your back water shithole country that was never a blip in sales to begin with.
>>11859496
>and Sega wouldn't admit to their console having a problem even today let alone in 2001.
Considering the last DC revision patched out reading CDRs, they knew and did something about it, just like how Sony fought mod chip installations with new bios.
>They make money on selling software, with the hardware just being a platform for it. If nobody buys your software because they can get it for $5 under the counter, then the hardware is now useless as a platform
Didn't kill PC games, or the PSP.
>EGM is and always was full of shit. Did you manage to find Shen Long in SF2 yet?
Editorial =! April Fools cheat codes from 1992.

Piracy did not kill the Dreamcast.

>>11859759
>No regular person was going scour those in favor not buying a legit game they could just boot up.
false.

>that wasn't the case in the US.
not sure how to explain this to you, but back in 2000 people had real life friends who they met with, and in every community there was someone who at least knew someone who could get pirated games.

>No they weren't.
>Six months after the platform died and Sega became a third party. Not an argument.
https://www.nfohump.com/index.php?menu=sections&sectionid=7&offset=250
over 200 releases in 2000 alone. From June to early October, there were new releases nearly every day, sometimes more than one every day.
so, what I said is factually correct.

>So now games like Virtual On which used redbook audio now have no music. No one is going to pirate that.
no one was going to pirate that trash when they could get Soul Calibur instead.

>Or they already have advanced knowledge of the system dying
yeah, being able to pirate all games without any modifications is a sign of any system dying. at least ps1/ps2 required internal modifications and Sony was actively legally battling any site that sold those.

>the last DC revision patched out reading CDRs
yeah, the last revision, sold for $50 in 2001.

>they knew and did something about it,
doing something about it is not the same. show me a press release where they state they are introducing a new version to combat piracy. they didn't, because that would mean ADMITTING THEY HAVE A MAJOR FUCKING PROBLEM, and admitting that means their share prices tank and they get fucked even harder.

>Didn't kill PC games
pretty much nothing can do that since it is an open platform with flagship hardware going back 30+ years.

>or the PSP.
PSP didn't die because Sony sank infinite money in it so they can gain a foothold on the handheld market that has been dominated by Nintendo since 1989. Then they made the PS Vita and killed it themselves.

>Piracy did not kill the Dreamcast.
yes it did.

>>11860186
>false
True.
>not sure how to explain this to you, but
Doesn't answer where you're from.
>but back in 2000 people had real life friends who they met with, and in every community there was someone who at least knew someone who could get pirated games.
Most normies didn't hang around sweaty nerds who knew how to pirate.
>https://www.nfohump.com/index.php?menu=sections&sectionid=7&offset=250
>over 200 releases in 2000 alone.
Your link directs to the forum, not a list of games. Try again dumbass.
>From June to early October, there were new releases nearly every day
>October
So when Sega already internally decided to kill the system. So even if you can point to a list of pirated games in 2000, one fucking summer of distributed games does not kill a fucking system. Again, other consoles had just as much games pirated in a season and it does fuckall.
>no one was going to pirate that trash
Nice deflection. Not an argument.
>yeah, the last revision, sold for $50 in 2001.
Because the system was already dead, but games were still made for it. Why would developers continue to make games for a console where most of the revisions were still able to play pirated games?
>doing something about it is not the same. show me a press release where they state they are introducing a new version to combat piracy.
How about you show me where former Sega employees say piracy killed the Dreamcast. You can't, because it didn't.
>because that would mean ADMITTING THEY HAVE A MAJOR FUCKING PROBLEM
They had a dozen other MAJOR FUCKING PROBLEMS besides piracy.
>and admitting that means their share prices tank and they get fucked even harder
"Share prices" were in the shitter beforehand.
>Piracy did not kill the Dreamcast.
Correct

Boss monsters in Ultima Online were controlled by Origin employees.

Glad to see nuh uh systemsaver schizo is diversifying his portfolio.

What the internet told me:
>Combat is largely optional
>You can talk your way out of most encounters
Reality:
>Mandatory combat sections as soon as you hit the catacombs. Long stretches of fighting bats, rats and bandits.
>Full on bossfight zone in Ravel's maze juggling monsters and Ravel's attacks
>The entirety of Curst is allegedly outsourced and is mostly rooms and rooms of fighting guards in the prison and also an all-out warzone with demons and wizards.

I'm more than familiar with cRPGs and other Infinity Engine games but I still found the combat in this game to be absolutely miserable. Litany of Curses, good tattoos, grabbing Dak'kon ASAP and converting TNO to a mage will carry you early on, but after Ravel it really does spike in difficulty and tedium. It's like you're suddenly playing a Baldurs Gate scenario but its just nowhere near as enjoyable for reasons I can't put my finger on. Real time with pause was kind of a mistake for all of these games, honestly. At least the spell animations are cool, they were very clearly inspired by FF7 summons.

>>11859464
It simply is.

>>11860358
I remember this rumor. Always thought it was a fun one.
thought it was just for town raids.

>>11860295
>Your link directs to the forum, not a list of games. Try again dumbass.
NTA, but nfohump (formerly nforce) hid their nfo section around 2016. You have to add switchto=nfos to the url. Try this:
https://www.nfohump.com/index.php?switchto=nfos&menu=sections&sectionid=7&offset=300

>So when Sega already internally decided to kill the system.
NFOhump shows constant releases nearly every day from 2000 June to 2000 October 11th, then there's a few months pause, then it shows daily releases again from 2001 March to 2001 December.

There's also the EEA collection: https://defacto2.net/f/b348e5
This one shows 400+ releases just for 2000, with June having 24 and every subsequent month showing 60-80, meaning that there were 2 new pirated games every day on average. For 2001 there's an average 40-50 releases per month up until 2001 September, then it dries up to ~18 games per month from 2001 October. From 2000 June to 2001 December it lists 938 releases.

>Again, other consoles had just as much games pirated in a season and it does fuckall.
Other consoles required you to get the console modified, which few places did. Doing it yourself was not easy because the $25 chinesium soldering irons did not flood the market yet, guides were so-so, and any reliable supplier got shut down by Sony. With DC you just stick the game in and play. Do you not understand how big of a difference this is? It's
>small percentage of user-modified consoles
vs
>every console ever sold

It was a case of a kid asking his parents to get a machine modified vs. Chad trading you CDRs in school.

>>11860924
>NFOhump shows constant releases nearly every day from 2000 June to 2000 October 11th, then there's a few months pause
Not enough to put a dent in sales, and by summer 2000 Sega was already in deep shit to the point where they had to be making the decision to kill the system internally.
>then it shows daily releases again from 2001 March to 2001 December
When the system was already DEAD. Why does everyone keep pointing to dates after the system died?
>This one shows 400+ releases just for 2000, with June having 24 and every subsequent month showing 60-80, meaning that there were 2 new pirated games every day on average.
And how many of those were being downloaded and spread around? How long did it take you to download them on dailup?
>With DC you just stick the game in and play
In 2000 (when the system was still being sold), you needed a boot disc. Most normies didn't have one.
>Chad trading you CDRs in school
"Chad" wasn't hanging around sweaty nerds who were into pirating games.

Also fun fact, as early as 1999, Isao Okawa proclaimed the Dreamcast would likely be Sega's last console. See pages 14-15
https://retrocdn.net/images/7/78/NextGeneration_US_61.pdf

>>11858913
Don't waste time arguing with OP. He's on a power trip. Notice anything missing? Catch the hint?

>>11858467
>Everyone bought PS2 because of the DVD
this one is true though

>>11859472
>Supercomputing in a console, Emotion Engine, 75 million Polygons Per Second, not allowed to be sold to Iraq because it could run ballistic missiles, that sorts of shit was all in the news.
literally the only part of this that made the news was the Iraq thing. nobody gave a fuck about any of the rest of that. I literally never heard of the "Emotion Engine" until I was an adult.
Exactly zero people called the PS2 a supercomputer, as well.
Zoomies need to leave.

>>11861816
Yeah, PS1 was so unsuccessful that PS2 would've failed completely without the DVD.

>>11861859
>things nobody said

>>11861867
Yeah, I'm making a mockery of your idiotic statement. PS2 would've become the most successful system ever with or without DVD. It was the most hyped system ever, the followup to the (then) most successful system ever. Only idiots and sour grapes think the DVD saved the PS2.

>>11861883
nobody used the word "saved"

>>11861649
>Also fun fact, as early as 1999, Isao Okawa proclaimed the Dreamcast would likely be Sega's last console. See pages 14-15
It doesn't say that though. It says if the dreamcast fails they would become a software only company.

It says nothing about Dreamcast already failing. And his prediction came true when Dreamcast failed from piracy later.

>>11861885
>Uhm ackchully I said another word, you lost sweaty, PS2 would've failed without the DVD!
Do you always argue like a Jew?

>>11861885
I'm sure this will make the GameCube the winner of that generation.

>>11861896
nobody said it would have failed either

>>11860924
If piracy was such an issue on the dreamcast, why did few if any games have anti-piracy measures. It would not take much effort to put significant barriers to piracy, specifically you would make sure the game depends on having 1GB of data requiring significant code patches and reworking for the game to function with only 700MB of data.

>>11861917
I see that opinion constantly on /vr/, specially coming from the usual suspects

>>11861927
ok

>>11861921
Why does it matter to you if piracy killed the Dreamcast or not? It's 24 years later and you're still defending the idea that piracy didn't kill the Dreamcast? Get a life.

>>11862042
Why does anything matter. The answer being that nothing matters. The thing in your life which you think is most important is in reality, as equally pointless as this thread.

>>11862042
>Why does it matter to you if piracy killed the Dreamcast or not?
Because I care about historical accuracy. Otherwise concession accepted.
>It's 24 years later and you're still defending the idea that piracy didn't kill the Dreamcast? Get a life.
It's 24 years later and you're parroting the unfounded idea that piracy killed the Dreamcast? Get a life.

>>11861649
>And how many of those were being downloaded and spread around? How long did it take you to download them on dailup?
Big Bro downloaded it in university on a T1 line and burned me a copy.

>>11861649
>In 2000 (when the system was still being sold), you needed a boot disc. Most normies didn't have one.
Boot disc is just +1 pirated game to get. Around here everyone who pirated DC games knew you needed the boot disc.

>"Chad" wasn't hanging around sweaty nerds who were into pirating games.
He was making money selling us copied discs. Everyone in school knew someone who could do that, and plenty of rich kids made money off of burning shit for us. Not to mention every other guy knowing someone with a burner who could burn shit for you as well, be it copying a CD or an mp3 compilation or a playstation or dreamcast or PC game.

You clearly were not alive at the time, because this IS how things got around.

>>11861824
>literally the only part of this that made the news was the Iraq thing. nobody gave a fuck about any of the rest of that. I literally never heard of the "Emotion Engine" until I was an adult.

EE was the codename of the chip and every magazine mentioned it in hardware specs. Supercomputing at your home was what Sony's bullshit division was saying, they also said that the console will be like jacking into the Matrix (Ken Kutaragi actually said the latter, look it up). 75 Million polys per sec was in the specs that Sony was giving for the machine, for polygon performance without effects. I think the one with all effects on was 20 million. You can search google for either of those phrases and get results dating back to 2000, even 1999. Here's one from 2000 december:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/915821-playstation-2/faqs/7201
>CPU: 128-Bit "Emotion Engine"
>Polygons per second: 75 Million, 20 Million with effects

The fact you've never heard of this means that maybe you are the acting like a zoomer here. We kids who lived and breathed this at the turn of the millennium know these very well.

>nobody gave a fuck about any of the rest of that.
Normies at the BS marketing up and thought the PS2 was gonna look so much fucking better than the DC, more realistic than anything, etc., because the initial ads showed FMVs instead of games. I met actual people who said to me that the PS2 is going to look better than anything.

>>11862341
>We kids who lived and breathed this at the turn of the millennium know these very well.
nigger I was a kid who lived and breathed video games in 2000 and I'm telling you unequivocally that nobody gave a fuck about any of that nerd shit. maybe you and your faggot friends did

>>11861921
>why did few if any games have anti-piracy measures

Because the games just got cancelled usually.

>It would not take much effort to put significant barriers to piracy, specifically you would make sure the game depends on having 1GB of data requiring significant code patches and reworking for the game to function with only 700MB of data.

Crackers could find such measures and patch them out.
Game code does not hit 1GB, it's only the FMVs, music, and voices that required so much space, and those could be downsampled.

>>11862310
>Around here
Where
>He was making money selling us copied discs. Everyone in school knew someone who could do that, and plenty of rich kids made money off of burning shit for us
That wasn't happening with Dreamcast games. And even if it happened in your no-name country, it wasn't happening enough to put a dent in sales for Sega immediately pull the plug on the system compared to the mountains of inventory sitting in warehouses and the decreasing revenues they had going back to 1994.
>Not to mention every other guy knowing someone with a burner
Not everyone had a burner, and even if they did, just because someone has a CD burner doesn't mean they had interest in pirated Dreamcast games. Just like how if someone had a Dreamcast doesn't mean they automatically pivoted to buying or downloading pirated games.

>MK2
>There is a special fatality kind of move that makes your character take a piss in the living forest stage
>the living tree bites your weener off

>>11860575
Lol combat in this game is piss easy, just eat a bunch of cockroaches and you are literally invincible.

Also you don't play PS;T for the combat FFS

>>11858347 (OP)
The biggest meme is the idea that the developers had an opinion on what kind of display you use to play their games.

>>11861824
>I literally never heard of the "Emotion Engine" until I was an adult.
i first heard of it a few seconds ago in this thread

>>11861896
>Do you always argue like a Jew?
some people bought it for the dvd bud, i wouldn't say i did but it's the only dvd player i've ever bought besides a dvd drive that came with a dell which i wouldn't count

>>11862152
It's not historically accurate. Piracy did add to the Dreamcast demise pretty quickly. Which is why there were so many cancelled Dreamcast games as soon as piracy became a problem. Which is a bummer because I was really looking forward to playing Castlevania: Resurrection on Dreamcast.

>>11863992
>Which is why there were so many cancelled Dreamcast games as soon as piracy became a problem
Sega wasn't even able to reach target sales of Dreamcast consoles, how the fuck would piracy factor into this? Why the fuck did the Dreamcast manage to get outsold by the fucking Playstation, which had been a haven for piracy for ages? How did Sony manage to profit off of the Playstation if there was piracy?

>Reasons cited for Dreamcast's failure include consumer excitement for PS2;[61][222][267]
>lack of support from EA & Squaresoft, the most popular third parties in the US and Japan;[151]

>disagreement among executives over Sega's future
>Okawa's lack of commitment;[19]
>Sega's lack of advertising money, Bellfield doubting that Sega spent even half the $100M it had pledged to promote the Dreamcast in the US;[29][268]

>market not ready for online gaming;[130][151]
>Sega's focus on hardcore gamers over mainstream consumers;[61][130]

>poor timing;[29]
>damage to Sega's reputation caused by its poorly supported previous platforms.[151][269][270]

>GamePro:"the much beloved Dreamcast launched years ahead of the competition but ultimately struggled to shed the negative reputation Sega gained during the Saturn, 32X, and Sega CD days. Casual gamers and jaded third-party devs doubted Sega's ability to deliver."[269]

[19] https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/04/21/ign-presents-the-history-of-sega?page=1
[29] https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-dreamcast
[61] https://archive.ph/20140201012313/http://www.1up.com/features/9999-dreamcast-memorial
[130] "Sega pulls plug on Dreamcast". Next Generation. Vol. 3, no. 4. April 2001. pp. 7–9.
[151] https://web.archive.org/web/20151208064454/http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3145154
[268] Kent 2001, p. 573. Charles Bellfield: "When you consider that Microsoft has announced a $500 million marketing program for the launch of Xbox and that Nintendo has a $5 billion war chest and the overall power behind Sony's PlayStation brand, Sega does not have the ability to compete against those companies".
[269] https://web.archive.org/web/20080905175406/http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/111822/the-10-worst-selling-consoles-of-all-time/
[270] https://web.archive.org/web/20141215095100/http://www.usgamer.net/articles/the-lost-child-of-a-house-divided-a-sega-saturn-retrospective

>>11864037
You can make all the excuses you want, but third party developers ended up abandoning Sega Dreamcast when piracy became an issue. As for Playstation, piracy wasn't as widespread, which is why there were so many PS1 Greatest Hits titles, which were re-releases since the original titles sold out like hot cakes.

>>11864082
Cite a source or kill yourself.

Ok gang, we all learned a valuable lesson today!
Anyone who says that piracy killed the dreamcast is a lame gay bot and should be ignored forever.
The end

>>11860575
>Combat is largely optional

more like should have been optional. you're right, the combat stinks and i thought the general consensus eventually became that combat was an afterthought once "you can talk your way out of most encounters" turned out to be spread around for no reason

>>11864082
Oh now teh greatest Hits Titles are guilty

>>11862451
>you don't play PS;T for the combat FFS
I never said I did? Weird faggot.

>>11864037
>Playstation, which had been a haven for piracy for ages

Playstation requires a modchip. It requires someone getting a modchip. It requires someone knowing how to install the modchip, and someone with enough skills to install the modchip. You couldn't youtube that shit in 1999. And it required for you to have a console which can accept modchips to begin with, since Sony kept changing the internals to combat modchips. If you had a psOne, you could not mod it for a while.

Dreamcast required you to... put the burned disc in the console. At worst you had to put in the burned boot disc, then put in the burned game disc.

Zero modification required and 100% of all consoles on market are affected. A gigantic difference.

>>11862440
>That wasn't happening with Dreamcast games
Literally happened at our school.

>Not everyone had a burner,
>replying this to "every other guy knowing someone with a burner"
brilliant logic

>and even if they did, just because someone has a CD burner doesn't mean they had interest in pirated Dreamcast games.
It's called helping a nigga out. You know, giving a nigga a hand. I can buy the blank CDs, if you can just copy this disc for me please.

>The "MUH PIRACY" troll/schizo/fanboy is still at it
Mods, it should be clear by now that he's not here to argue in good faith. Pic related.

>>11864090
No need for sources when these are just common sense facts. Piracy couldn't put a dent in the PS1 because CD burners weren't even widespread and not many people installed a modchip on their PS1's, nor was it widely known.

>>11864163
Guilty of what? Proving that piracy barely put a dent in the sales of PS1 games? LOL The truth is, it wasn't widespread on both PS1 and even the PS2 for that matter. Of course the PS1 required a mod chip and not many were willing to brick their PS1 to have it installed or it may just be that no one even knew about it!

>>11864260
Well said!

>entire thread devolved into whether piracy killed a console or not
it didn't kill ps3 or 360, both very easy to hack. Though it doesn't help, it takes way more to kill a console.

>>11858927
>Those are all true.
Nope. It's cute you believe it though.

>>11859061
if that's true, think about what Hyenas has done.

>>11862440
>That wasn't happening
you weren't there
At my middle school in the US at the turn of the millennium there were 3 or 4 kids who came to school with a handwritten list of stuff they could burn for you at a buck a pop. give em the money, get your discs the next day

>>11865012
Proof?

>>11866059
Your school was an anomaly, then. I went to a quintessential “rich kid” school in 2000: cd burners were not common at all, and the few kids whose families had them (they weren’t even shipping with the many pcs until 2001-02) were not interested in selling pirated games. The mundane but true story is Dreamcast was a great console that just got out-competed.

>>11866101
no, pretty much everyone my age i've ever talked to about the good old days mentions this phenomenon. Nothing anomalous about it.
Shit, my middle-class household had a cd burner in late 99.

>>11866101
>your experience is an anomaly
>I, having gone to a special """rich kid school""", know what regular public schools were like
you're retarded
and no fuckin duh kids at your """rich kid school""" weren't selling copies of CDs and games and shit, they didnt need the money
you simply lack critical thinking skills

>>11865012
Bandai and Sega almost fusing is 100% true.

>>11866124
lol touched a nerve, huh? It doesn’t matter, you’re larping anyway and are just as blockheaded as the autismo who derailed this thread

>>11866321
>t-touched a n-n-nerve
lmfao. retard

The idea that piracy has a negative impact on media business is corporate propaganda. There have been studies that show that easily pirated media often sells better, though these studies are often suppressed (see EU report on the financial impacts of piracy). Anyone reporting these myths that isn't a company spokesperson is a whore who believes anything their corporate masters tell them.

>>11858347 (OP)
Whao, this is the biggest guilt ridden cope I've seen over piracy.

>>11868074
>actually when its easy to steal less people steal it
>I can't prove it because the man is keeping my sources down
you're retarded

>>11868074
False. Piracy has a negative impact on the sales of video games, music, movies and books. So of course companies will do what they can to combat piracy. Just look at what Nintendo is doing. They are the Disney of video game companies who will do anything to protect their copyrighted content. Plus the sales of video games dictates whether or not a video game gets a sequel. Piracy often threatens that possibility, which is why third party developers were scared away once Dreamcast games were pirated. PS1 didn't have this problem because to pirate their games, you needed a modchip installed. Which wasn't widespread, neither was CD burners at the time, as they were VERY expensive to buy at the time.

>>11858408
Most people who initially spread misinformation do so purposely as an organized group in order to obfuscate obvious truths through information chaos.
See: This imageboard.

>>11868363
>you needed a modchip installed.
you could also just use a plug mod like this one.
t. i was there

>>11868363
>Piracy often threatens that possibility, which is why third party developers were scared away once Dreamcast games were pirated
Hilarious historical revisionism. The Dreamcast was lacking heavyweight third party support from day zero. EA refusing to make games for it caused more damage than piracy ever did, whilst other big third parties mostly used it for lesser franchises, usually via janky PS1/N64 ports and experimental titles not expected to sell well.

Fine I admit it. Dreamcast died because I stole all my games

>>11868386
Twas really there when I ordered Xenogears in pal land from the US and bought one from the shopsjust to play it

>>11863992
>Piracy did add to the Dreamcast demise pretty quickly. Which is why there were so many cancelled Dreamcast games as soon as piracy became a problem.
Most games in development for the Dreamcast were cancelled as soon as the PS2 was announced and Snoy bribed the publishers, Anon. This was cited as part of the reason why Castlevania Resurrection was cancelled.

The other reason being that the Japanese division were so frustrated with how slow and poor the development half was going from the Western division that they all quit. Konami tried to bring in additional people into the Canadian/U.S. division and it was such a mess that Konami canned the game. Shit had been in development for over 2 years and wasn't even 50% complete, and at that point it was clear that the Dreamcast was going to quickly fade out with the PS2's imminent release. All in all a big disaster of a project. And anyone who's seen or played the early leaked build of the game can tell you it definitely wasn't worth saving, the game sucked.

I really wish KCEK were given the chance to do a Dreamcast/PS2 3D Castlevania.

>>11868716
NUH-UH! IT WAS THE HECKIN PIRACY!

>>11868386
Cheat devices were common such as the Action Replay and the Game Shark. They weren't "modchips". You may as well call the Game Genie a modchip.

>>11868435
False. Just because faggoty ass companies like EA and Squaresoft didn't support the Dreamcast, doesn't mean Sega was lacking third party support. They still had Capcom, Acclaim, THQ and so many other publishers supporting their platform. If anyone's doing historical revisionism, it's you. Piracy is what killed the Dreamcast.

>>11868716
False. The PS2 wouldn't immediately cancel out any future games for the Dreamcast. Piracy was a real threat and the reason why most Dreamcast games were cancelled to begin with. CD-R's and no modchip required? Of course this would be easy for people to pirate games with, especially if they happen to have a PC with a CD burner and an internet connection, especially with broadband cable internet being available at that time. Which made it very easy to download games with than dial-up modems.

>>11866114
You're full of shit.
I knew one other kid at school who even had a Dreamcast.

>>11869058
>Cheat devices
things like the pic i posted took things a step further. they came with a special spring meant to trick the PS1 into thinking its lid is still closed.
then it will load the boot data from a "legit" game, stop spinning, and use it to boot your backup

>>11858347 (OP)
Yeah, I remember handing out all sorts of burned games for the Dreamcast to everyone who had the system. The self booting games were really popular and was the reason so many around me did love the system too. I would say the access to inexpensive great games brought the Dreamcast to a higher level where if one person had a game everyone can participate. Maybe if they continued to make good games for the system it would have continued to thrive but alas Sega is just not good with money and failure is a part of their DNA.

>>11869985
Wtf how did they lose 3.2 billion to pirates in 1998? CD burners didn't exist until 2005!!!

>>11858467
>Piracy saved the PS1
It didn't save the console but in the early days it was an important factor.
>Everyone bought PS2 because of the DVD
This is true

>>11870224
>but in the early days
I didn't hear of PS1 piracy until late 1997, that wasn't "early days"
>This is true
sneeding tendie

>>11861859
Normies bought PS2 because of the PlayStation's success AND because of DVD. One doesnt have to be false for the other to be true you brainrotted binary fatgot.

>>11869072
>I didnt have any friends in school so this means you're lying about kids who had CD burners copying CDs to make pocket money
weird logic there

>>11869058
>False. The PS2 wouldn't immediately cancel out any future games for the Dreamcast.
Wrong, also GTA3 was in development for Dreamcast until Snoy interrupted.