How do Save States work? How do emulators know to save your exact same position in game?

>>11861180 (OP)
The computer just remembers it for you because it's very smart :^)

Everything about a game is just data stored in ram. This includes your character's position. If you store the ram data in a file, that's a save state

>>11861180 (OP)
What's crazy to me is how they're able to bypass load screens in CD based games, if that's possible then why aren't emulator load screens instant?

>>11861303
Because the emulator emulates the process of loading the data into ram from disk. Loading up a save state just means reading the state of ram from a file which is instant. There are emulators where you can fast forward the process of loading from disk but sometimes it can break stuff.

>>11861180 (OP)
The emulator is simulating every piece of the hardware so it can just remember the exact state of ram, the cpu, the ppu , etc. and save/load them.

>>11861321
disk = hard disk (HDD) or floppy disk
disc = CD
Internally installed games are loaded from disk.
CD games are loaded from disc.

>>11861339
Meant to say:
>disc = compact disc = CD

>>11861180 (OP)

When you press the savestate button what actually happens is that the emulator writes some files into a specified folder containing a snapshot of all the variable properties like RAM and variable values.
Games are programs, they are purely deterministic, including seemingly randomness which is just an RNG function giving back a long but consistent chain of values. If you set the RAM and values back to a certain state you have the exact same state as it was before.

>>11861339
ESL, prease understand

You're just saving the system's memory to a different medium.

This isn't just limited to emulators.
Like the original Action Replay for the C64 that would let you save state on original hardware (which is a good way to skip loading a game from tape for an eternity)

>>11861180 (OP)
From my limited understanding, it basically dumps the RAM, registers, and cache on any processors on the system into a file, and then loads that data back in place before resuming execution. Not sure if there is anything else it also dumps the state of and if it does anything with the saved data if the game had saving features.

Coincidentally this is also how rewind works, rewind is nothing more than the emulator writing a savestate into your computer's RAM every X amount of seconds/frames (generally you can adjusthow often it does this in the emulator's settings) and when you rewind it's basically just chain-loading those savestates backwards. The more often it does it the more fluid the rewind is instead of jumping between moments of your gameplay, but also the more memory it takes up since it needs to store more savestates at once in your system's memory (Or if it has a hard limit on how many savestates it stores for rewind, how long back you can rewind)

>>11861205
>>11861321
You need to dump more than just the RAM to save a state, you need all the registers and cache on any processors as well.

>>11861303
"Loading" is more than just reading data into memory, usually loading entails the game doing several things, from reading data into memory to initializing variables and setting up processes in the background. And you can definitely try to speed this up by fast forwarding, but depending how the game is designed this can break things, especially if the emulator is not able to accurately make absolutely every aspect of the emulated system speed up by exactly the same amount. Needless to say reading a disk image will definitely be the biggest bottleneck of all the components that can be sped up since everything else is in RAM (Or even your CPU's cache) but an ISO needs to be read off a significant slower HDD or SSD. This is also why it's generally not an issue for older cart systems, since the emulators usually just load the entire ROM into RAM.

>>11861373

This is btw also what your OS's scheduler is doing constantly. If you check your process list you will see you have A LOT more processes than you have CPU cores.
So what it does is saving a process' program state, registers and the program counter, stopping it and restoring the state of another process to give it some ms processing time at the CPU before switching to the next one.
This happens constantly, the scheduler is cycling through all your process constantly, trying to assign CPU time as optimal as needed possible. Scheduling algorithms are a whole area of computer science, from simple round robin to complex heuristic approaches trying to predict the best schedulng as possible. On one hand you want it to be fair so that no process "starves", on the other hand some processes usually have more to do than others.
What his means is juggling around complete states of programs is absolutely nothing special, when you savestate instead of immediately dropping the snapshot of the simulated console system state the emulator stores it in a/some file(s).

>>11861398
I would assume saving the state of the entire system to restore it is a bit more complex than just the state of a single application within that system though. (And thanks to Intel we have the mess of managing that across P and E cores)

>>11861373
>This is also why it's generally not an issue for older cart systems, since the emulators usually just load the entire ROM into RAM.
You can load entire disc images into RAM in PCSX2, but the load speed (even with Fast CDVD) is limited by the EE doing what it does with said loaded data.

>>11861339
Ackshully disk is preferred in US English and disc is preferred in UK English. Disk is used for hard drives etc. because of American companies, and disc is used for CDs because of Compact Disc which is Japanese/Dutch (Sony/Philips).

>>11861368
That's awesome

>>11861418
>disc is used for CDs because of Compact Disc
Yes, thank you for agreeing with me, albeit in this pointlessly long-winded way.

>>11861368
Was 30/35 quid cheap back in the 80's?

How do game sharks work? I thought it was overwriting ROM like replacing a piece of cart data with your data, but it must be RAM right? Otherwise how would it prevent life loss and junk.

>>11861339
Same word but spelled differently. Which one is used is a matter of convention rather than a hard rule so only an obnoxious pedant would feel the need to correct someone about it.

>>11861180 (OP)
they usually save the RAM data?
>>11861205
desu
>>11861465
i never knew ActionReplay was that old.
according to googlelord AI, UK pound lost 80percent value since 1980. in terms of bread price, it's over 70 percent. (bread cost 33 pence in 1980, over 1 pound today). if we take the cheapest brit bread it's £1.09 a loaf(avg 1.24).

so... 30 pounds is worth 90 loafs of bread back then. but if you convert it to current years pounds after inflation, then buy modern bread, it's 49 loafs of bread.

i personally would say it's expensive for a device for a console i don't play and think it's lame. i rather PC game and buy USB sticks in current year, or buy 3-inch floppy dicks back in the 80s. of cose most 80s PC games suck, and PC were madly expensive.

>>11861470
I don't know about GameShark, but I know that Game Genie modified the ROM, not the RAM. As for how it would prevent life loss, easy if you modify the code for losing a life. Replace the line that removes a life with a NOP, make it subtract lives by zero instead of one, make the check that returns true if you died to false, many ways to do that by modifying ROM.

>>11861509
That one is for the Commodore64, not a console. I never had a C64 but I assume That being able to save right after a game has spent several to dozens of minutes loading off a tape to it's memory that can be re-loaded instantly was likely a great feature, think it was also used as a piracy tool because of this but I am not sure.

>>11861470
do you not know what ROM means

>>11861198
Hooray!

>>11861470
Riddle my this Batman: What does ROM actually mean? Especially the "RO" part?
Game enhancers like the Shark manipulate values in the RAM instance of the program (which a game is). Life conter is a simple example. Somewhere in RAM there is an address, let's assume 10000, where there is a value that in the game represents the lives. The device now after locating manipulates this value (freezes it or writes a new one there) and voila, you have infinite lives or as many as you want.

>>11861643
NTA but the "Read Only" part means that the medium is not meant to be randomly re-writable like RAM is, it doesn't mean that the data is utterly immutable and can not be altered by another device sitting on top of the ROM and altering the data it's sending out.

Nor does it mean that the chip can't be rewritten, depending on the type of ROM. Do you know what EEPROM stands for? Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory. Notice that "RO" is still in there, yet, EEPROM can indeed be changed and re-written, some cartridge games even used EEPROM over SRAM for saving progress.

But even if it was a type of ROM that once manufactured can never be changed such as a Mask ROM which most carts used, that doesn't mean that another device can't sit between said Mask ROM and the system and change the data being sent from the ROM to the system, which is exactly what devices like the Game Genie did.

>>11861672
That is on the same lavel as "It's just a THEORY" when talking about scientific theories.

It makes no difference if the chip could be reset by shining UV-light onto it or apply a specific high voltage to erase the data (which outside of the initial manufacturing and flashing should NEVER be accessible) - in context with the end hardware and normal programs running on it is READ ONLY. If you have a game enhancer that actually erases and overwrites the ROM, we are not talking about normal hardware anymore, and a third party cart capable of doing that would be a whole other can of worms for the manufacturer that their product does not destroy peoples' games.
To both software and all hardware there is one golden rule: The ROM can only be READ, that the chip hypothetically could be erased by a function never intended to be used outside of manufacturing is irrelevant.
All manipulations can just happen in RAM, either by directly writing or intercepting the writing operations (the "freezing"). That's why the enhancers sit between the game and the system, they intercept the writing process to the defined RAM addresses.

>>11861525
You can't modify rom on a cartridge. The game genie acted like an interceptor, i.e. if the memory address that held health/ ammo/lives/etc tries to update itself by deducting 1, instead the game genie would replace the value going to ram with its own, in this case replacing -1 with 0 so the value remains the same.

>>11861198
the funny part is that actually is pretty much how it works
its cuz its a computer, instead of a 40yo piece of retarded plastic, so it can just save the RAM at any moment youre playing

>>11861726
>That is on the same lavel as "It's just a THEORY" when talking about scientific theories.
Umm, no? What kind of insane logic even is that? This isn't a "theory", this is literally how this shit works.

>It makes no difference if the chip could be reset by shining UV-light onto it or apply a specific high voltage to erase the data (which outside of the initial manufacturing and flashing should NEVER be accessible)
I literally just told you that there were games that had EEPROM chips that were used to hold your save data you moron

>If you have a game enhancer that actually erases and overwrites the ROM, we are not talking about normal hardware anymore
I never said it erases the Mask ROM, I said it intercepts it. Erasing or changing a Mask ROM would be impossible. You tried to argue that it modifies RAM because you think Read-Only means it can in no way even be intercepted. That is not how the devices work.

>All manipulations can just happen in RAM
Again, they do not, you are spreading misinformation when you claim this. The Game Genie modifies the data being sent by the ROM, not the data in the RAM. You could easily Google this, but you instead choose to make yourself look like an idiot by refusing to admit you was wrong about something.

>>11861763
>You can't modify rom on a cartridge. The game genie acted like an interceptor
... that's exactly what I said. I didn't mean it's physically modifying the Mask ROM on the cart itself, but the data it's sending to the system. I assumed people here would be smart enough to know that it's obviously not physically modifying an unmodifiable Mask ROM on the cart itself, but I guess we have idiots like >>11861726 who think "Read Only" means utterly immutable to even being intercepted and when presented with EEPROM thinks those are "just a theory" and even when told some games that used them to save your progress assumed they could ONLY be erased by UV light or high-voltage spikes that only special equipment can do.

this thread is very cringe

>>11861180 (OP)
It captures your screen, then 700 Indians play the game up to that exact point really fast

>>11861871
Hope they're paid well for their trouble

>>11861823
You could at least explain the reasoning behind your opinion instead of leaving some vague insulting comment.

>>11861303
>What's crazy to me is how they're able to bypass load screens in CD based games
They aren't usually able to. They just run the system faster so it's able to load faster. Also typically loading from a HDD/SSD is faster than reading from a CD in general.

>>11861960
He doesn't need to, you're too stupid to understand why.

>>11861818
>I know that Game Genie modified the ROM, not the RAM.
These are your words. You are wrong, take the L and move on.

>>11862271
Nice attempt at a Hail Mary, too bad it failed.

Again, people here are generally not retarded enough to assume this is somehow modifying the physical ROM on the cartridge, that basically goes without saying.

You're the kind of person responsible for the "Warning: May contains nuts" labels on cans of mixed nuts aren't you?

You know what were also my words?
>that doesn't mean that another device can't sit between said Mask ROM and the system and change the data being sent from the ROM to the system

Which you still ignored and acted like I was trying to claim the Mask ROM itself was being modified, and then went on to make a further retard of yourself by bringing up nonsense about how an EEPROM totally cannot possibly be rewritten while in the cartridge, except that's exactly what games that use EEPROM saves do.

Funny, most of the time I have seen someone claim "take the L" in an argument, it tends to be a last-ditch attempt to refuse to admit they were in the wrong. You were even the one who tried to argue "It's just a theory" (Hint: the word you was looking for was "semantics", not theory) yet now you tried arguing semantics to refuse to admit you fucked up.

Notice how every time you post you just end up making yourself look more and more retarded? Are you going to take the hint or will you be stupid enough to post again to keep arguing this?

>>11861180 (OP)
There are certain cores in retro arch that do not have a save state feature like how crazy is that?
I was just playing castlevania adventure GBC version on retro arch and wanted to save because I got off the train but no save option. This is so fucking annoying.

Also a bunch of cores that support super game Boy for donkey kong 94 but no save option

>>11862290
>I know that Game Genie modified the ROM, not the RAM.
Only an idiot would make this statement. Give up, you lose.

This thread is a good example of the tragedy of the contemporary internet.

11862457
You're got nothing and you're just trolling at this point, not even worthy of a (You), I'll just leave you to your retarded screeching.

>>11862457
>Only an idiot would make this statement. Give up, you lose.
STFU retard. Kekalekakek!!

>>11861180 (OP)
Savestates are a magical device created by the devil, they're like a pact with the malign.

They can rewind time for you but they also take away a bit of your soul as they instantly make it so that you cannot and will never be able to beat a game. Not only that but once you start your mind will be wrapped and you'll become a spawn of satan spreading the evil word to bring more people to the dark side, such as "it's okay, everybody does it" or "It's not really cheating the way *I* do it".

Watch out and don't succomb to the tentation, the malign is watching and waiting around the corner to take away your ability to beat games and your common sense!

logic gate

>>11861180 (OP)
How many states does a dumb fuck save if a dumb fuck didn't beat the game

>>11863110
0+, because you didn't the game if it wasn't beaten on release day in the original language.

>>11863120
you didn't beat the game
the game

>>11861180 (OP)
Good question. Good thread. Interesting.

>>11861180 (OP)
with effects

>>11861180 (OP)
Use Google.

>>11863305
For what?

The simple answer is that there's more space on a PC to store the data. There are a few hacks with built-in savestates like the Zelda Link to the Past Practice Hack that speedrunners use.
https://spannerisms.github.io/lttphack/index

>>11863432
Save states in practice ROMs like for Super Metroid or Banjo Kazooie would probably operate differently from your conventional memory-dump save states.

For SNES games, they likely know the exact values that are being controlled for player character and enemy/object actor positions, states, other variables like health and inventory, etc. They only need to save/load those parts, and not the parts of RAM that might be storing unchanging game program etc.

Dumbest thread I’ve ever seen outside of a CRT thread.

What hapens if I save to memory card then load state, will game get confus

>>11863876
Depends on the emulator gut generally no because the memory card is a seperate file. In the case of games with internal battery back up like in an SNES RPG, loading a savestate also load the last save at the moment of said savestate though.

>>11863463
Okay. What's your point, Diamond Jim?

>>11863880
Might cause issues for games that autosave though

>>11863876
Actually a good question. Some emulators get confused and go back to a prior version of the saved file, while others will separate both. I recall back when PSX emulators were released, emu creators always said to not mix save states with MC saves.

>>11861180 (OP)
It makes a copy of the ram and cpu state.

>>11863915
Then it gets the hose?

I always wondered why there isn't an actual program that let you make savestates of modern pc games, just like DOSbox does.

Do Quick Resume work like save states?

>>11863931
Because savestates save the state of the entire machine
Hence you can make a savestate of a VM replica of your computer, but your computer could not create let alone reload a savestate of itself, as it would generate a time paradox

>>11863950
Because those are usually not ran in an emulator?
IF you use a PC emulator to create, say, an old Windows system you CAN create states like with any other emulator. But you need a superior system actually basically pulling the strings behind the dependent one. A system can only try to do a snapshot of itself as good as possible, like, it could copy the contexts of all its running processes and the RAM in a file to disk. But when restoring you come to the old bootstrapping problem - the system cannot restore a complete savestate without locking up while the vital functions are overwriting themselves. You need to basically pause the WHOLE system to load in the old states and then resume. That's why you need a superior controlling system.

>>11864129
meant for >>11863931

>>11863931
Imagine trying to load a 8GB memory dump every time you missed a jump.

ZSNES

>>11861180 (OP)
Scopes

>>11861470
Some of these devices just sit in between the game and system and alter rom reads. Some of them will inject a bit of code that gets run every frame and can then run further codes that alter ram values.

>>11861643
peak dunning-kruger

>>11861180 (OP)
Processes

Usual manner