Let's discuss about the shmup genre; either vertical or horizontal scrolling shmups and either traditional or danmaku shmups

>>11866020 (OP)
>either vertical or horizontal scrolling

What about both and neither

Why don't you geeks like Eco Fighters?

Did the last thread die or hit bump limit?

>>11866028

I think i'd have to play the arcade with the original controls to give it a fair shot first. Was it joystick + spinner?

>>11866108
I only played it once in an arcade and im pretty certain that was the setup. I actually really like playing it with a dual analog stick set up.

Last thread I said Daioujou sucks, but after kind of getting the hang of it I actually start to enjoy it more. It's a difficult game to get into (WL at least), but I think if you get good at it it can be really fun.
I managed to make to the last stage once. It's really tough. I think I did it with B-S. Just sad that there isn't a good port to emulate this game. The 360 port has an audio glitch sadly, and the PS2 port (which is what I played) has a really annoying replay system, plus the rails section had massive slowdown for me.

>>11866020 (OP)
Starfox confirmed being a shmup

What's the best weapon design in shmups?
My favorite is definitely the Raiden purple laser. Not just the most interesting looking weapon ever, but probably also the hardest to code.

>>11866020 (OP)
Stafox is more a dogfighting game than a shmup

>>11866028
>>11866108
>>11866145
I played eco fighters a while back and I realized that the dual-stick setup seems to be unique to this game. I also realized that Forgotten Worlds also has this dual-stick control scheme but I can't figure out how to use it for other games. Like maybe Smash TV or something else. Do you guys know how or is this something that has to be coded on a per-game basis?

>>11866356

i frequently daydream about how to code that, and I dont think i'd get very far. Its very impressive for the time/limitations.

>>11866403
Absolutely. I once tried to code it, but also couldn't figure it out. I managed to code a nice homing laser with lock-on mechanic tho, like in Rayforce (only with asset help tho)

I have never beat a shmup before. Im just not good enough at videogames I guess. I kind of lose interest once I lose all my lives. I never really understood the appeal that much, at the end of the day there isn't much to them other than memorizing dots flying across the screen.

>>11866454
you're supposed to absorb the dope ost and jive like a gangster through the bullets that seek you

Thoughts on Over Obj?

>>11866454
Shmups are like a drug. It's exciting to 1cc them. When you practice them for hours and finally manage to get to the last stage, your nerves start shaking and you feel adrenaline. No other genre is as good at this as shmups, unless maybe you play fighting games in tournaments.

>>11866403
I daydreamed about making a shmup with the raiden laser as the main subweapon and adding a modern scoring system to it, kinda like Crimzon Clover did it with the Rayforce homing laser.

I still don't know how to add a scoring system to this weapon tho. It would be nice, because in Raiden the purple laser is actually not that good and everyone just plays with vulcan, so having a shmup which really focuses on that weapon would be cool.

>>11866331

I don't like daioujou, but it's a good grind. I feel that it lost respect for the player in some way compared to ddp. The game wants you to perform not just well, but also extremely tight. In other words, memorization solves more than skill for this one, even if it's not immediately obvious. Stage 3 where it's the most obvious with some segments. You either know what you're doing or you're going to suck ass.

But hey, it's not unfun to play, and the satisfaction of doing well in such an evil game is always nice.

>>11866027
Flying in circles sims get old after a while.

New Shmup Junkie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSNbW-iH0dI

>>11866870
Gyruss doesn't

>>11867331
Based

>>11867331
Thought he might’ve stopped making videos. Nice.

>>11866662
It's a quarter muncher, yes, but a good one. Stage 3 isn't too hard with some practice and bombs on the boss. Stage 4 and 5 are really difficult.

>>11866331
>using B-S in the og version
Found your issue. Of course it's going to feel like shit if you stick with the slowest ship.
Both Leinyan and Exy give you much better control, the former comes with enough bombs to last for the entire game, but recovery will be tough. Exy has no real flaws, you don't need as many bombs if your ship is actually good and you don't even need to think about recovery.

Still, if you are playing Shotia and got to the last stage, might as well do what she does best.

Either way, I did a thing.
https://streamable.com/s3k357
This final pattern is very evil for 1st loop standards, and exclusive to it too. Way too tight with WL hitboxes especially.

Been playing Gunvein on mild for around 15 hours and still cannot get a Mild 1cc. I have almost got the final boss down, but missed when he was on about a 5th life left. Should I just give up on the genre at this point? All the steam discussions say that Mild is very attainable for a novice after only a few attempts...

>>11867730
Gunvein is not an easy game. If you want something a bit more tame, go with Mushi novice mode. If you can't clear that after a few hours, then give up and find another genre to suck at.

>>11867730
Take it easy. It's more about the journey than the destination.
And mind you, when people talk about shmup difficulty they tend to use a higher baseline because the genre is just particularly demanding on execution.

>>11867730
The people that are actively commenting on a shmups difficulty on forums and/or steam are usually veterans of the genre. If this is your first STG, you will struggle to clear it. If you're having fun, just enjoy the ride. The great thing about """competitive""" shmups is that it is all about self-improvement, and only you will gauge that unless your playing co-op woth others which the majority of shmup fans are not. It isn't like a fighting game, where If you rock up to tournaments and get bodied week after week, you will naturally feel dejected and embarrassed. STGs are really a personal pursuit and if you are having fun, it really doesn't matter about how quickly you beat a game when you're starting out. That first 1cc is always the most difficult, even on the shitter difficulties, and you will find each subsequent clear easier and easier. In other words, don't quit unless you're genuinely not enjoying yourself.

>>11867684
What's the reasoning playing WL over BL?

>>11867782
Already played BL many years ago, so I thought to replay some DOJ through WL instead and see what's the fuss about.
Actually yeah there are some nasty and mostly subtle version differences that make it harder. The changes on the player ships are blatant enough, but the original also had more bullets flying around, less slowdown, sometimes used bigger sprites that BL changed into smaller ones(e.g. stage 4 cannon), and so on.

The only reasoning for somebody who has never played it before would really be wanting to suffer.

recommend me a shmup to play with leverless

>>11867891
Boku no Pico

>>11867676
It's not my fault that they gave the main character such slow speed with laser. It's kind of weird considering this will be the character new players probably use first. Gives a weird first impression of the game.

But still, I think she is usuable if you know when to alternate from laser to shot to gain enough speed. Shotia with A ship also controls weird because when you switch to laser, she still has shot speed for a brief moment, which throws me off. Not sure if that is part of the game or some input glitch, idk.

But yea, I will probably use Leinyan more anyway. Exy is only good when you already know the patterns and have a plan to dodge everything, which I don't have yet.

I just found out that steam actually has a perfect game recording function which I can use for arcade game runs. No more worrying about ports lacking a replay function. The steam deck is really great for playing these games.

>>11867968
>Shotia with A ship also controls weird because when you switch to laser, she still has shot speed for a brief moment, which throws me off.
She always does that with both ships.

>But yea, I will probably use Leinyan more anyway. Exy is only good when you already know the patterns and have a plan to dodge everything, which I don't have yet.
Opposite way around if you ask me. With Leinyan you are going to struggle after the first death, the dodging becomes especially difficult against large waves of enemies.
With Exy you might want to use the hyper a little more liberally, especially if you can get a large chain.

>>11867730
The fact that you got that close means it's doable, just practice the final boss a bit more in practice mode, and then go for more runs

>>11867982
>She always does that with both ships.
Ok, but on type B it's a lot less noticeable for me.

Exy has no bombs. Plus everyone uses her. I want to use an other chracter and have bombs.

>>11867991
>I want to use an other chracter and have bombs.
Fair enough. I guess Shotia will be better if you want to use A, Leinyan if you want to use B.
That applies to teh original, if you play BL then I dare say B-S is actually a strong choice.

>>11868000
Yea, I definitely like type B more. Type A has the colors of an africa flag. Not a very good looking ship sprite.

Although, does Type A have different colors when playing as player 2? With better colors I could see myself using Type A

>>11868008
Yes the ship have different colors on P2 side.
Type A is blue
Type B is orange-ish

>>11866662
It's a game for veterans that already beaten ddp a couple of times and is not afraid to admit what its target audience is. I can say that this is one of several reasons why it has the merit that many shmup circles attribute to it.
Unrelated to this but, WHAT THE HELL?!
https://x.com/SPSPUYO/status/1944397555292414129
Ketsui's WR got beaten once again

>>11868152
What is there left to squeeze points out from now in Ketsui, assuming the general routing has been solved? Optimizing empty locks?

>>11866020 (OP)
TwinBee is not a ship and is smaller than a human child

>>11868152
>one of several reasons why it has the merit that many shmup circles attribute to it
I don't really care about this. To me Cave is in a weird spot were they were the kings of the genre, but at the same time they also produced quarter munchers. Many of their games have bugs and feel rushed. They never managed to make a single good looking 3d game. Joker Jun is a good artist, but I think there are better artists in the genre.Cave also attracts a lot of elitists and otaku. Especially their later games really target the otaku demographic. And not the cool 80s/early 90s kind of otaku, but the virgin kind of otaku.

Even Psikyo managed to make cool 3d games with Cannon Spike and Zero Gunner 2. Instead of making Muchi Pork and Pink Sweets or Ibara, Cave should have made 3d games just to switch it up a bit, but they probably couldn't.

I don't find any 3d shooters people claim look to good to be visually attractive at all. The only 3d shooter I think looks good is R-Type Delta.

>>11868715
Well then you have tomatoes on your eyes. 3d can look very nice with good artists.

>>11866020 (OP)
>Airwing

>>11868489
>What is there left to squeeze points out from now in Ketsui, assuming the general routing has been solved?
Praying that the panzer doppelgangers in both loops will not escape and NMNB the entire game I guess. The result would be something like 646m or something

>>11866020 (OP)
>danmaku
They're called Curtain fire shooting games with loli-tastic melodies.

>>11867730
"Easy" modes in STGs need to be understood differently than mainstream easy modes. In Japan, the idea of playing on Easy as a beginner is normal - it is the place you start as a beginner. It is still going to be challenging, but doable for somebody new to the genre. Unlike Western Easy modes in modern games where they are designed for people who want to blow through a game completely unopposed - and there is a natural stigma in the west afainst anything labelled as Easy mode (you don't select this even as a beginner unless you're a child or a literal retard, the normal mode will be easy enough for beginners/designed to cater to the absolute widest audience possible, as the difficulty curve is so gradual that things become boring). Shmup difficulty has evolved constantly catering to the core audience which are naturally getting more and more proficient at the genre. Unless you're some sort of innately talented player, you will struggle on most competently made games Easy difficulties until you get used to the genre's fundamentals.

>>11866020 (OP)
cute art but
>no lord british
>no silpheed
>no compile ships

>>11868773
Claiming shmups must be in 2D/rail shooters aren't a sub-genre of shmups is genuinely the most brainlet and basic opinion you can have in this genre. Screams redditor.

>>11869447
Yeah, my favorite shoot em up is Virtua Cop.

Explain why a light gun game does not qualify as a sub-genre of STG.

>>11869459
Because they are their own genre. Also rail shooters aren't a "sub genre of shoot em up". They are a genre called "Rail Shooters".

>It is a different genre because I said it was. Here is the name of that genre, which is a different name

>>11869484
We aren't going to live in your world where the genre means nothing because it could be talking about an actual shoot em up or it could be a run and gun, twin stick shooter, rail shooter, or light gun game. Idiot.

>doubling down and just saying more names

DDP 2-all is fucked lads FUCNED

>>11870037
It's the least bullshit CAVE 2-all

I wish I was good at Raiden 2. It would be my favorite Raiden but I always die at stage 1 boss already and can only make it to stage 3. The beginning is also so slow in this game. It's a shame. Raiden DX is cool, but it feels too consolized.

>>11870136
played raiden dx for calice earlier, it was one of the best games there. it's so obviously a memorizer but unlike some more egregious games there's no bullshit strats, you just figure out where to bomb, where to be, and you kick ass.

didn't like the hidden radars though.

Why do I suddenly always die at the zako rush in DOJ after stage 3 mid-boss? Is it a version difference? When I played the ps2 port this never happened to me, but now I play on fbneo (or fightcade) and the zako always rush and kill me.

>>11870273
Nigga just hold the laser and slide in one direction.

>>11870279
On the ps2 port it worked with shot tho. Now it doesn't.

>>11870282
Shot doesn't always fully cover you, the laser aura always does.

Is there a way to separate your auto-fire shot and focussed/slow shot in DDP on Retroarch? I can obvious just tap to fire and hold for the focussed shot, but that is aids.

>>11869447
It's spelled Arwing. Where the fuck did you get all that other bullshit?

>>11870291
In Cave games you usually have to turn on the auto-fire button in the system menu. F3 or F2 or something on emulator.

>>11870291
However I think with retroarch you also can set a single button to use auto-fire on one button and no auto on an other.

>GPT-sama says that Zetsu is easier than Novice Akai Katana
Is it wrong?

>>11870492
I don't think you should ask chatGPT for shmup opinions.

>>11870504
Big if true

Is there a reason to not stretch Cave games in 4:3 to fit a full tate monitor set-up? Mushi looks great fitting the entire vertical screen.

>>11870536
Nope, it's pretty comfy playing vertical shmups that way

>>11870531
>he didn't find out the hidden 7th stage in DDP that's as long and hard as entire ura loop
Skill issue.
You had to beat the game using Type B ship but without grabbing any upgrade.

>>11870293
Correcting a blatant typo and getting a whole dissertation in response to an imagined argument you didn't make is about right for where the internet is right now.

>>11866020 (OP)
I'm a semi-beginner (been bouncing around the genre for a couple years now) but I have this problem where I've just hoarded so many games I can't just pick one to grind out a 1CC. It's a genre where you're so spoiled for choice it's tough to stick with one game when it starts to get frustrating. What do?

>>11871339
You stick with one game until you get the 1cc and don't touch anything else. Unless of course you end up not liking the game enough to bother.

>>11867331
God has returned

>>11867952
kek

>>11871339
Just keep letting yourself bounce off games until you find a game that stays fun for you through all the frustration.

I forgot to turn off auto-fire for Raiden 2, that's why the zako rush in stage 3 DOJ always killed me. Now I can make it to stage 5 again.

Raiden 2 is harder than DOJ tho.

>>11871339
Since you are a beginner you should stay away from the harder games for now. This already wipes out a lot of good games. Look for an easy 1cc which still looks fun to you. Something like R-Type Leo for example (that was my first 1cc)

>>11871434
If we talk about the first loop of both, yes indeed

Speaking of shmups (I know there are three light gun games there, but Night Striker is included)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NnS0U4uIZ4

>>11871507
So games like Night Striker, Afterburner or Space Harrier are really just first person shmups? I definitely prefer the top down or side scrolling kind of shmups

The big bee stole my Hyper.

>>11871507
>M2
Alright, I'm interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svn01KiWJKk&t=12

>>11871752
This boss is genuinely just CAVE trolling

>>11871752
I always bomb that pattern. It's too tight to do it consistently.

In DOJ I always die in stage 4 at the big cannon after the rails section. The one where the zakos rush you before the end. Can I go down there or will the big laser from the cannon kill me? I always die to the zako because I try to go up.

>>11866331
>Last thread I said Daioujou sucks
what the fuck is wrong with you

>>11866870
Objectively false statement.

>>11871901
Destroy the laser cannon first and then go stream from one side of the screen to the other, don'tgo up until all the zakos are killed. You can also take advantage of the high hit count from that moment and grab those four bees from that section in order to refill the hyper gauge

>>11871905
Cave's chaotic bullet spam design is always a bit off-putting at first

>>11871915
So you can't go down when the cannon is still there? Where do I have to go then? I can't kill the cannon that fast. When the zakos come they just spam the whole screen

I definitely use Leinyan now. Shotia is still doable, but she is just annoying to play and really requires getting used to with the slow speed. Her bombs are very useful tho.

>>11866020 (OP)
Enjoyed this Pheenix ZX Spectrum

>So you can't go down when the cannon is still there?
Not for too long since it'll fire a giant laser that has a hitbox
>Where do I have to go then? I can't kill the cannon that fast.
through the middle of the screen just above where the laser appears. And of course you can destroy it quickly if you maximize dps with both your laser and aura, or a well timed hyper as well
>When the zakos come they just spam the whole screen
The zakos that appear when the cannon charges up might be tricky, but after that, it's just tap streaming with either laser or shot since they fire single aimed shots

>>11871954
Meant to >>11871925

My best run so far. Died to needles at stage 2 boss and died to the dumb laser cannon at the end of stage 4 again. Not sure what to do about this. Also died at dumb shit at the rails. I thought I could get around the bullets but it was an optical illusion. Otherwise the run went how I wanted.

>>11872030

>>11872030

>>11872042
nice almost at the 2nd extend

i'm still working my way through trying to memorize the stage routes, currently at the beginning of stage 5. my best 1cc run so far has gotten me to the end of stage 4 but yeah those rails are a pain. when you hear the big laser cannon start charging up, do a clockwise circle on top of it and you'll take it out pretty quick along with any enemies flying at you. stage 2 boss always seems to get me too so i can't help ya there.

>>11872084
>nice almost at the 2nd extend
Isn't it at 30 mil? I think I already had the 2nd.

>>11872101
oh my bad i just assumed you were playing the black label version. that laser cannon strat might not be viable either, I haven't played enough white label to know.

>>11872117
Yea, I think I have to boot up the ps2 port again and do some stage practice now. Stage 3 I have pretty much downloaded now, but stage 4 and 5 still give me problems.

Shmups!

>>11872121
I've been meaning to try the ps2 port, that espgaluda port from the save devs is really good. for stage practice i've been using save states in fbneo but i have a pgm setup with a cart i put together for 1cc runs. one of my local arcades recently added black label to one of their cabs so i figured i should try and learn it.

>>11872207
>I've been meaning to try the ps2 port
I probably is great for its time but it seems pretty archaic nowadays. Especially the replay system is annoying because you can only save replays for single stages and you constantly have to accept the menu again after each stage.

C-L for first DDP 1cc?

Bros I really fucking hate these off days. I haven't been able to hit Stage 4 again, much less 3 consistently, and it's feeling like I regressed. It's been about 31 hours of Ketsui so far and it feels like I still have nothing to show for it.

>>11872268
Hell yeah

What's the game that has so many frames of input lag on real arcade hardware that using enough frames of runahead to completely eliminate them through emulation is considered cheating?

>die with 4 bombs
is there a worse feeling

>>11866027
if this counts starfox is a shmup

I did it!
Felt so close at the end, that final pattern is stressful as fuck, spent 3 bombs on it
You get so many bombs which is nice, felt like I started to get some of the stages down pretty well though, stage 4 and 5 have a lot of fun parts where you can squeeze by but stage 6 just feels like utter hell, never practiced it and just bomb spammed

>>11872343
>cat jumps in front of monitor during dense boss pattern

>>11872268
Worked great for me, personally
>>11872272
Something big I learned from fighting games is to accept the off days as learning days. Don't try to force a clear, just use it as a day to practice tough sections and do your homework, and the clear will naturally come when you have a good day. Also makes it less frustrating, and feels productive instead of like you're just running into a wall and not clearing
>>11872425
Hell yeah brother
I'm so close to 1-alling DOJ now, but using expert ships is such a change from the bomb surplus of DP/DDP. Did anyone else get their first 1-all of this game with B-Ex or should I try B-L for kablooey factor?

>>11872462
Very true, that's something I still need to understand. It's just been feeling a little ridiculous getting a miss before so much as the s2 midboss these past few days. Not even breaks that I thought would be long enough to calm the nerves have done much. I'll try out what you said though and focus those days on particular sections because I know s5 hasn't gotten anywhere near the amount of practice it should've.

>>11869374
>No Zig
>No Zero Wing

Biggest crime right here. Also Compile's shooters are overrated.

>run tanks to 1 extend on stage 3 of a 5 stage game
Is there a worse feel? Too far in to restart, not far enough to make the run meaningful.

>>11872732
>ever restarting a run
Ngmi

>>11872343
Obviously.
Dying with 6 bombs.

>>11871946
I warned you about Shotia bro. Leinyan has enough bombs, the issue is really that you will probably waste some only to recover.

>>11872030
Don't underestimate the stage 2 Byakko, especially the WL version. If you see a tight overlap with the needles, bomb preemptively. Since you aren't using Exy, you still have another bomb for the final pattern too. Hope it won't be necessary, but he can so much worse than stage 3 Genbu or stage 4 Seiryu as these two are more predicable.

>>11872462
From what I see, many people just start with B-Ex.
Not having to deal with Shotia's fat ass slowing down your ship or Leinyan's peashooter absolutely makes up for the lack of bomba. It goes without saying that she will force you to have a plan for each section in the game, use hypers effectively.
Or be cool and stick with the cuter girls.

>>11866027
MORE games like this. What are MORE Star Fox/After Burner style 3D shmups? Sprite or polygonal.

Thread theme right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYaf9zUpUBE

It's a little tight, but here is an ez way to do the laser cannon. Works with Shotia piss laser, so it will work even better with anyone else.

>>11866467
nice tits

God I hate doing stage 5 with Shotia, it's fucking unplayable. How am I supposed to kill ANYTHING after the midbosses in such a short time while doing fuck all for damage?

>>11872853
>What are MORE Star Fox/After Burner style 3D shmups?
Space Harrier obviously. A true hidden gem is also SkyGunner for the ps2. I recently played this for the first time and it looks and plays amazingly well. Also has a real scoring system to sink your teeth into. It plays a bit like Panzer Dragoon but you can freely fly around like in StarFox 64 boss battles.

>>11872870
>
Nice. My problem was that I bombed the last rail and then went up immediately to laser the cannon over the big laser, so the zako fly behind me and trap me. I probably just have to wait a bit with going up.

>>11872996
Rails are particularly dangerous because they are random, but the zakos are not, so keep that in mind before deciding how to approach them. Sometimes you will still end up trapped tho.
If on Shotia, it's actually a good idea to do the whole thing with only the shot, unless you are in a very safe position to squeeze some lasering.

>>11866020 (OP)
y no Einhänder?

>>11873162
Square doesn't deserve a place in the shmup genre. They ruined videogames enough with their stupid jrpgs

>>11872853
there's an early access game on steam called Ex Zodiac that's pretty fun. pretty much just starfox 64 with bonus levels that play like space harrier. it's not finished yet but the dev puts out a new level every once in a while.

This shit is so good wtf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XETDTUmqHbk

>>11867331
OH SHIT IT'S UP

>>11867331
More like Shlomo Junkie

Tengai is super hard, holy shit.
Liking Psikyo games is like a curse. There's something good and fun there, but at the same time it's clear that those devs don't like their players.

>>11874694
The second loop? Yeah.
First loop isn't "easy" but not that bad, it helps that after your first death, the rank drops so much you will be steamrolling the stage you are in and most likely the next.

Sengoku Blade mentioned.
Good tastes

I don't wanna play DOJ anymore. The bullet spam is just annoying. It's a quarter muncher. Many patterns are just complete bullshit and you can only get through with bombs or hyper. I really prefer shmups without bombs. They tend to be better balanced and more fun. If you run out of bombs in Cave or Psikyo you are just fucked.

>>11875570
As far the first loop goes, everything is humanly possible on no miss/no bomb/no hyper. It's only at the second one that you would need TAS-tier skills to pull it off.

>>11868773
It’s an ‘Arwing’ you stupid son of a bitch

>>11875574
Maybe if you copied the exact routes for how to squeeze your way through, otherwise it's just constant bullshit after another. You can't do anything when the whole screen is just full of bullets.

>>11875598
It just wants you to shoot down the enemies quickly while doing misdirect/streaming exercises. Granted, actually doing it is harder than it sounds but you are supposed figure out how to poke some holes in the enemy formations.

Any decent mobile shmups? I need something to play while I'm pretending to answer emails

For me it's Armed Police Batrider, Raizing's best shooter. Destroys Gayregga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0GP2pqSG1k

>>11875581
I know that, but OP's image doesn't.

>>11875647
I was expecting traditional shmup for some reason, and it stays that for a while, but then it's suddenly danmaku.

>>11875570
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33U8aE-JyWg
Try this vid I found

>>11875760
Anon was playing wl I think

>>11875647
With a name like that, how can it not be good?

A.S Asagami uploaded a new DOJ BL clear!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiX7A7NmvWg

>>11873964
I too suspect he is jewish.

>>11876216
Damn Nearly 5 whole hyper bars filled from the 4th boss alone. I can only get 3 on a good day.

Thoughts on pic related? It's freeware danmaku game but pretty dang good. The graphics are a pre-rendered Mars Matrix style.

It was very easy though even on the harder difficulty, they gave you too many credits. I didn't 1cc it.

>>11876227
Looks ok, very CAVE-brained, but didn't really catch my attention enough to even attempt 1cc runs.

>>11876227
Pretty nice game if you're a CAVEfag, also Eden's Aegis and Blue Wish Desire are worth checking out

>>11876216
Very cool. Game is still a quarter muncher tho.

>>11876748
Stop coping and get back dodging.

>>11876748
If the game it's too hard for you, switch to a different one. Have you tried the first EspGaluda and Progear no Arashi?

>>11876761
It is not too hard for me. I'm making steady progress and already made it to the last section of stage 5 in only a few days. I just don't like how aggressive the game is. When you die it's always due to shit you can't react to and couldn't know. You constantly get walled and the correct routing is often a mystery because the whole game is just chaos with the bullet spam. Cave games are always so chaotic and make it really difficult for the player to know what you even have to do, because they are concept is so simple. Just spam bullets at the player in all kinds of ways.

>>11876227
There's a port on Steam, although it doesnt have the Resurrection part. Same game/arrangement?

>>11876227
The dude's games look fun. Do the freeware versions on itch.io have support for gamepads/arcade sticks?

>>11876896
Dunno. You can just use a key mapping software to bind your pad, that's what I did.

Is DOJ unoptimized as fuck or is it normal that there is massive slowdown in the last stage? I'm not sure if it's my computer not handling the game or if it's normal? It's only in stage 5. The stages seem to run ok.

>>11867331
This guy seems like a fag. How tf is his name "shmup junkie" when he doesn't even have clears. Mork is obviously superior.

>>11877058
He is jewish and a smart business man.

>>11877054
Assuming you're playing on MAME or Retroarch without any issue, then it is 100% intended hardware slowdown. It nearly doesn't have any slowdown with a very high rank however, since the bullets are faster and they leave the screen quickier

>>11877058
He has more charisma than Mork thoughtbeit

>>11877069
I'm honestly not sure. The other stages run fine but stage 5 was a bit suss. DOJ also ran like shit for me on the ps2 port in pcsx2. I play on a steam deck and usually can run games just fine. Maybe it's because the game is so old idk.

>>11877075
Depends on what your definition of charisma is. To me he sounds like an NPC.

>>11877076
>The other stages run fine but stage 5 was a bit suss
Because stage 5 throws all sorts of enemies and bullets at you, unlike the previous stages
>DOJ also ran like shit for me on the ps2 port in pcsx2
Why do you want to play DOJ from there instead of the usual MAME?

>>11877082
The mame roms never work for me somehow. Not sure why. I play either on pcsx2 or fightcade.

>>11877086
Go to archive.org, search something like "mame 0.278 roms merged", search for the DOJ rom and it SHOULD work for you

>>11877096
Sounds too fishy to me. I like playing on fightcade, because it doesnt clutter my library with all the arcade games.

>>11877105
You don't need to download all the files at once, you can download them individually if you go inside the ZIP from the page

>>11877082
>>11877086
>>11877096
>MAME
Only use MAME if you have no other choice. If a game runs on FBNeo you should play it on FBNeo (plus the FBNeo core in RA supports run-ahead which is crucial for shmups)
>>11877076
>>11877086
>pcsx2
PCSX2 has shittons of input lag which makes it especially bad for shmups

Anyone used Switch/PS4 emulators for modern ports? They seem to have nice features and quality, just curious if there's issues with common shmups like CAVE games. I see Switch has some DDP games and PS4 has Ketsui for example.
I will probably try them out and report back either way if I can get them set up.

>>11877058
They're friends and have made a lot of content together. Why are you comparing them as if they are in competition?

>>11866020 (OP)
gradius and starfox are 10/10 designs. the rest of these are garbage.

>>11877059
>He is jewish
Proof of this?

>>11877318
Switch ports of most modern shmups are usually pretty unresponsive and laggy. RA/FBN will do everything that you would want a modern port to do anyway, minus gadgets (who cares) and maybe some new soundtrack options (again, who really cares)

>>11876816
Takes some trial and error, but I could figure out a resourceless survival route for anything outside of RNG sections and the stage 5 bee nest section.
That said, they can change depending on which ship/doll combo you are using: for instance B-S and B-Ex have a very easy way to do stage 4 moving platforms by just taking advantage of the wide shot, but other types will have to do it differently by playing particularly aggressive instead. Stage 3 becomes more tight with Shotia, and Stage 5 becomes more tight without her or B-Ex.

>>11877318
I couldn't find the firmware/bios for these consoles. They seem to be harder to set up.

>>11877318
Unironically why would you even do this.

>>11877647
Yea, the game is aggressive as fuck, but your playership is also very powerful which makes up for it.
I just prefer more reasonable ship power. The weapons in this game are a bit silly, but the game obviously doesn't really take itself seriously, otherwise it wouldn't be called Dodonpachi.

>>11876761
I would actually suggest picking a few shmups you enjoy, maybe like 4 or 5 and alternating between them. It helps if the styles vary like traditional and danmaku. Focus on those games and you'll get better.

>>11877828
>but the game obviously doesn't really take itself seriously, otherwise it wouldn't be called Dodonpachi.
Pretty much the whole series is a shitpost about the title sounds both like the onomatopea for bullets and "angry leader bee" in kanjis.

>>11877810
SDOJ quality seems dogshit in the mame I'm using, and kind of same with DOJ
So far I've only briefly tested them on the Switch emulator, but the quality (sound and graphics) seem greatly improved. I dunno if there's some place where there's higher quality rom dumps for the arcade releases or what.

>>11877647
>outside of RNG sections and the stage 5 bee nest section
The section in stage 5 after the beginning, where you kill the tank and a bunch of aggressive zako spawns in is also very hard if you don't know the exploit.
How am I supposed to know I can just leave the last tank on the right alive and those aggressive zako don't spawn? With Leinyan it's really difficult to deal with them.

Or that you can hug the side on the stage 4 boss to not make him spawn bullets on the right side. That's the kind of exploits I don't really like because you simply can't know this, but it makes the ending a lot easier, at least for me.

>>11877836
I would guess the graphics are a screen scaling issue. Arcade vertical shmups used CRT's with bespoke aspect ratios. I would try to see if there are pixel perfect modes in MAME or maybe do some research and check the resolution of arcade machine vs your screen also maybe rotate your monitor.

>>11877850
This one? When in doubt, hold laser and tap.

>>11877869
Yea, you killed the tank rather late there. At first I bombed the tank section and then had to deal with a ton a of those zako.

>>11877875
I actually didn't know you can spawn so many zakos but it's mostly the same thing. Now I tried it by bombing the 4 tanks before the last one so I can kill it as quickly as possible. Believe in Leinyan's lasering since you will probably die if you actually use her shot here.

>>11877886
>since you will probably die if you actually use her shot here
Yea, that's what I did. You would think zako require shot. I think with B-Ex you can just stay in the middle and hold shot.

>>11877909
Leinyan shot is way too nerfed to deal with zako rushes or actually covering the whole screen.
And yeah B-S/B-Ex have it free in these kind of sections. I think A-S can just shoot too but not sure.

>>11877851
Any scaling/aspect ratio issue can be completely fixed with sharp-bilinear-simple in Retroarch. It completely eliminates any shimmering or inconsistent looking pixel sizes and it barely looks softer than nearest neighbor scaling (it looks sharper the higher res your display is due to how it works by only averaging the edges of the pixels)

>>11877851
It could be, but the sound quality is particularly bad. Strangely enough, when it comes to DOJ, the Taiwanese(?) version has much better audio quality than the JP version. Not sure why.
Could be the settings of this pre-setup mame, but as it stands so far, emulating through the Switch seems better. I'll have to test some more to compare slowdown and see if it matches up.

>>11877836
>So far I've only briefly tested them on the Switch emulator
Where did you get the firmware/bios from? I tried but couldn't find them.

>>11877916(me)
>I think A-S can just shoot too but not sure.
Well close enough.

>>11877929
I'm using Sudachi for the Switch emulator, for the PS4 one I know I found a link on leddit and Ketsui runs well on that.
The Switch stuff seems to be pretty easy to find with a google search. You may be using a different emulator, maybe it's harder to search for.

>>11877934
>Ketsui runs well on that
Yea, I was pretty surprised how well the steam deck runs 360 shmups too. Futari is perfectly playable. Guwange port too with some ini adjustings.

So why the fuck was the M2 port of DDP never localized? But SOJ was?

>>11877082
The PS2/360 ports have additional game modes and also higher quality sound samples and music. It would be good if someone made a sample pack like for Final Fight MAME where you get stuff like Sega CD music.

>>11878050
Because M2 never publishes anything in the west unless they are forced at gunpoint by Taito or other collaborators. SDOJ, DFK and Espgaluda 2 were ported by LiveWire and not M2, and as such was picked up by some western publisher.

>>11872207
id love to get a PGM, whats that supergun ur using ive never seen one that small, thats just the kind of one i'd want.

as for the ps2 ports i think they're pretty good, espgaluda, mushihime, ibara, and ketsui on the ps3 all through rgb scart on a tate crt is fucking awesome,

is your cart original or a bootleg, the label looks different to the one ive seen.

was playing Ibara on my PS2 for the first time in forever. Nothing more to add, just had a good time even though im shit. And nobody talks about Ibara as its the redheaded stepchild of all arcade ports.

>>11878878
>nobody talks about Ibara

spookily, >>11878864
posts about Ibara on PS2 at the same time i'm posting.

>>11877934
I managed to get a switch game working now but it seems to have a good amount of input lag sadly.
Ps4 I still don't know how to get it working. Do you even need firmware for this?

>>11878864
Ibara has the coolest title screen

Merely a trivial amount of ammunition.

>>11867331
good video, and holy shit i swear thats arnold schwarzenegger reviewing rayforce.

>>11879283
I respectfully request your continued patience for a brief duration longer, as I intend to discharge a limited number, specifically, two or a few more, of ballistic projectiles from this firearm, in order to either complete the current exercise, maintain tactical advantage, or satisfy the objectives associated with this particular engagement.

>>11878887
>posts about Ibara on PS2 at the same time i'm posting.
lol spoopy, i did forget to mention DOJ tho.

>>11879012
i just like them all especially in tate.

what's the ww2 shmup where the pilots lose clothes the better you do?

>>11879623
Strikers 1945

>>11879485
looks pretty damn comfy, I'm jealous

>>11879630
based thanks

Play Gun Frontier

>>11879818
t-thanks Yagawa

Were they on meth when they programmed the bullet speed at Psykio?

BUMP

>>11878864
It's a minigun supergun. i put this one together myself, but you can find people selling them on ebay. it's the only supergun i've ever used but it's worked pretty well for me so far with this pgm board and a 1-slot neo geo. mine uses the same av connector as a model 2 genesis, but there's a version with an 8-pin mini din also.

the cart is a bootleg one i made from another open source design. i just had some random labels i found online printed out for them.

i like the pgm a lot but i will say they are notorious for having issues so unless you like to fix stuff be careful where you buy from.

>>11880414
thanks for the reply, yeah the PGM's seem to be reasonably priced tho there seems to be a lot of broken ones, im not really familiar with arcade hardware so hope to get one all working

also i recently saw someone selling 3 carts espgaluda/DOJ/ketsui for £200 on ebay, im guessing those were repo carts, or were they genuine im not sure how much those games go for but that seems cheap for all three.

ill check out the supergun, using a megadrive model 2 av lead it should be good for rgb scart.

>>11879818
Great game. Your ship is as slow as a crippled turtle but enemy bullets move at Flying Shark speed, it has one of the most depressing soundtracks I've heard on an arcade game, and everything is brown or grey. Maybe its the masochist in me but there's something about this piece of shit that has me coming back to it time and time again even though I never last five minutes.

What are (You)r favorite Toaplan shmups?

>>11881407
Dogyuun , Batsugun, Hellfire(Genesis).

R-Type has the best setting and Darius the best design.

>>11881407
Dogyuun because it has a cool homing laser

>>11881407
Tiger-Heli was my first shmup so I've always had a soft spot for it. I've never played a bad Toaplan game but Flying Shark and Batsugun Special are my favorites.

>>11881442
Darius has an interesting developement. They really managed to make the best out of the formula. The games started with multiscreen as a gimmick, and later they added burst lasers to the game, which fits really well to long multiscreens. They also added fish swarm-like enemy formations, which fit very well to the burst lasers.

It's just sad they concentrated more on quantity instead of quality in Darius Burst. The game has good ideas, but it's just so repetitive and generic.

>>11881459
I like G-Darius most. The enemy design might be good for a VR game, if they move the camera like this

>>11881407
Gonna be honest with you m8, it's mostly trash until Tatsujin.

Am I the only one who thinks Blazing Lazers is ridiculously overrated?

>Enemy bullets move with you sideways making dodging super awkward and requiring constant adjustment
>Hitbox is huge and shields seem to make it bigger making dodging even more awkward
>Half the weapons are nearly or completely useless and will result in death if you pick them up
>Extremely unclear and complex bomb/shield/powergel/gold ship system
>have no idea how many powergels you need to power up weapon, repower shield, sometimes powering up weapon repowers shield, sometimes you think you can take one shot and it looks like you have a weak shield but actually you get 1 hit killed

Otherwise it's quite a good game but the weird bullets that seem to move with you plus massive hitbox makes it so awkward and ruins it.

>>11881545
>Half the weapons are nearly or completely useless and will result in death if you pick them up
I hate devs who do this.
Fuck you Toaplan.

>>11881545
Also factor in the Compile syndrome and chain dying when you lose your power ups after death. It's not as bad as some other games but it gets BAD near the end and the game seems to be about stocking up on gold ships and especially bombs for last level, but bombs are harder to recover because you want to keep a shield most of the time.

>>11881552
Toaplan is not bad AT ALL when it comes to this though and their weapons tend to be mostly good and balanced. Play Blazing Lazers and see how obnoxious it is.

>>11881484
Play Twin Cobra. Slap Fight is also considered to be a classic of the genre.

filthy casual here. i've never really understood Compile games' tendancy to just rain random weapon powerups constantly so you seem to have a different weapon every 5 seconds. Even worse when the game just uses a single number or letter that you have to have pre-memorised, not even a different colour to make them stand out

>>11881407
I've been playing Daisenpuu and I like it

Compile (Heart) gave us a CAVE-chan, so it's all forgiven.
Well, except the part where they also made a Shangai Alice girl eventually.

>>11881407
Dogyuun and Outzone kinda mog everything, but there's a few other solid picks in there like Hellfire and Fire Shark. Ofc later games start getting more solid overall.

>>11881650
Daisenpuu is good, it's not the best Toaplan shooter but it's actually pretty darn good, definitely a little underrated.

Last thread I asked if when you guys are learning a new game, do you credit feed to get familiar or you do you attempt a 1cc from the get go. Most people said they either credit feed or use save states/training mode.

Here's another question: When you're learning a game and you're attempting a 1cc, do you look up any full playthrough videos or do you attempt it blind through your own understanding of the game?

>>11881931
>do you look up any full playthrough videos or do you attempt it blind through your own understanding of the game?
If the clear is absolutely hard, I look up as many replays as possible taking notes on what works and what doesn't and then execute them from practices and then on full runs. Otherwise, I grind the game myself until I get the clear

Man, I've noticed that I need to be in the perfect state of mind to play shmups. If I have anything on my mind, or if I've had a tiring day, I just can't even think about picking up my arcade stick.
I wonder if most people aren't interested in shmups because their minds are always preoccupied with everyday crap or something...

>>11881931
I don't think infinite coins help much at all.
I believe that the ideal situation for those who are playing "casually" (i.e., just trying to finish the game with a single coin, no matter how) is to know the levels and their bosses well. For that, you don't even need save states, if it's one of those modern versions of games that come with a training mode. Just playing the most difficult levels several times until you get used to them is enough, I think.

>>11881931
I mostly play older console shoot em ups, and don't typically credit feed because checkpoint recovery or starting a late level at the beginning with no weapons isn't really representative of what you need to be doing.
Bullet Hells, yes, I credit feed to learn them. I can only beat like 3 bullet hells though, so whatever.

>>11882013
>I don't think infinite coins help much at all.
I think it comes from players who actually played these games at the arcades. They had no savestates or practice modes when the games came out, so they had to credit feed to get familiar with the games. Nowadays this isn't really needed anymore.

Can oldfags please explain wtf is the appeal of memo games?

>>11882035
Every skill requires memorization. Games which don't involve memorization have no replay value. They may be fun for 1 playthrough, but then you can throw them in the garbage. Shmups have infinite replay value.

>>11882035
Shmups are simply the best skill based games. At least to me that is.
Fighting games always just feature muscle men and women with fat asses.
First person shooter always just feature american GI Joes.
Shmups feature cute little girls and cool machines instead.

What sort of game doesn't require memorization? Mario Party style button mashers?

>>11882048
Literally 99% of modern games don't require memorization. And if they do, then only slightly.
Console games are aimed at people who just want to relax when gaming. Arcade games are different.

>>11882035
Define "memo games"
Average NES game like Ninja Gaiden, Castlevania, etc. is entirely memo and no one complains about that

>>11882067
I've had it up to my titties with this shit. "Memo games", what are you a fucking answering machine? Take the typewriter out of your ass and put down the abacus, Jennifer.

Shoot 'em ups, when played "normally", aren't that much more focused on memorization than any other games with similar difficulty. Even Psikyo games, which are considered heavy on memorization, aren't really about memorizing every detail, at least not on the first loop.
I think people watch super players doing insane things and think that's the norm, when these guys aren't that different from speedrunners in terms of their level of commitment to certain games. People also don't realize that there are certain positioning/movement techniques that players are using all the time.

>>11882114
Yes, routing and placement is a big thing especially in danmaku games. Play for fun, that's the point.

>>11881931
>do you look up any full playthrough videos or do you attempt it blind through your own understanding of the game?
1000% yes, especially if I found a section particularly hard to get consistent like the 2-2 zako rush in gradius. Or the 1 up in most cave games, as they can be unintuitive to get like in ketsui or mushihimesama.

>>11882221
>2-2 zako rush in gradius
Are we talking arcade because this shit is not hard on the NES or PCE. I haven't played the actual arcade Gradius.

>>11882136
More of a thing in dadshit actually.
Danmaku is meant to be more about reading and taking advantage of screen space, although there are exceptions like everyone's favorite DOJ, where it feels like a bullet hell version of dadshit, if you get what I mean.

>>11882508
I think it's the one where zakos appear from the background before the boss fight, and they chase you around. If you shoot in the second loop, you spawn suicide bullets in your way so I usually just don't.

This is the peak of horizontal dadkino. Nothing else comes close.

>>11882730
The checkpoint system really ruins it but the power up bar and stage design are very cool all around. Gaiden allowing you to rearrange the order especially was an amazing idea.

>>11882035

Every game is a memorizer if played optimally, the only real question is where the bar for clearing the game is.

Some games, typically older arcade games, have cheap shots and very uneven difficulty. This is so you put more money in the machine. This is where basically all of memorizer hatred comes from.

In most other cases, unless you are copying someone's run for scoring or whatnot, you won't feel like you're doing memo stuff.

Cave is for fags.

>>11882814
Only Ketsui

>>11882508
yes arcade, it's like what >>11882712 said. The revenge bullets make that part very hard. There is a pattern, where you can abuse the set spawns, but it is tricky to set up.

What is the best looking STG with 3D/polygonal graphics? Hard mode: no TFV

>>11883162
Raystorm
Raycrisis
R-Type Delta
G-Darius
Einhander
Border Down

>>11881931
Attempt 1cc from the getgo. I only credit feed if I really like a game and am trying to master it. If I'm just testing the waters or playing for score I restart at the end of my first credit.

>>11883162
I actually think gradius IV looks pretty good.

>>11881931
>do you look up any full playthrough videos or do you attempt it blind through your own understanding of the game?
Fully on my own.
If you ask me it's far more rewarding to learn common techniques and applying them to create your own routes instead of just copypasting somebody else, which results in reducing the game to pure execution/memorization without any understanding of the underlying concepts.

>>11882814
Cave is for autists and lots of autists are a hair's breadth from going full troon. I think Cave's a little overrated myself but even I have to admit DDP and DDPDOJ are among the best of the genre.

Bit of a meta post, however: if we were to try and resurrect the old /vg/ stg + arcade general (/shmupg/) here on /vr/ for more consistent discussion, what should be in the OP post, and should the general be called /shmupg/, /stg/, or /stgg/? This has been a good thread, same with the last one.

>>11883227
>if we were to try and resurrect the old /vg/ stg + arcade general (/shmupg/) here on /vr/
Don't.
>This has been a good thread
Specifically because shmupg autists don't bother coming here. Most of them anyway.

>>11866028
I like it

>>11872853
Super Thunder Blade

>>11872853

Galaxy Force is the ultimate super scaler shooter

Not retro but I don't know where else to ask since this is the only shmup general thread in the site.

The Darius games are on sale right now on the Switch eshop, I'm looking to get just one, which would be the best choice?
I know they all have their pros and cons.

Like Another Chronicle not having as much content as CS and while CS has a lot of content, most of it is copy paste and the graphics are butt ugly. I've also heard G Darius is overrated as fuck.

>>11883901
G Darius is the only polished Darius. Gaiden is good too but kinda jank and brutal. CS is good if you are ok with copy pasted stuff. It has a lot of content.

>>11866108
According to the official instruction manual, nope

DOJ on console is so cancer, I need my keyboard for fancy stage 5 dodges.
But fuck it, I will do it anyway. With the goddamn switch joycon for bragging rights, and in WL of course.

>>11883901
Either G Darius HD or the Cozmic Collection Arcade.

>>11868715
cotton for the genesis is very impressive imo.
theres a part in stage 2 where you pass through a layer of clouds over the ground and its mindblowing its being done on a genesis but i cant find a gif of it.

>>11882814
i dont care.
i like seeing the pretty colours, i like cute anime girls and i like da music, i like that i cannot see anything on the screen and i like the pretty cover art.
ive been a good paypiggie and bought all their switch re-releases.
you are both gay AND retarded.

>>11883901
Honestly? You can't go wrong with those three, but G-Darius is the best for me

>>11884285
I have seen this exact post before. What the hell

>memorization: the genre
lol

>>11884351
What took you so long?

>>11884291
>>11884184
>>11883957
Well seems like G-Dairus' love seem well earned, I'll get that one then.

The other two, will content packed, both seem to have ONE thing like the screen with huge black spaces or ugly graphics.

>>11884426
I've actually never played G Darius, but from what I've seen it has the best boss fights at least.

>>11883228
>Don't
Why

>>11884461
To not turn these threads in a continuation of shmupg and avoiding vg autism.

Shmupg was amazing, separated the fake from the true interest. Lot less faggots, such as yourself.

Guess you can take that as a warning of what will happen to these threads. That, and cord drama.

>cord drama
There was barely any discord shit in that general. But we can both agree that it is aids, nonetheless.

>>11884285
>pretty colours
I really want to play a bullet hell with those hypnotic swirling patterns that isn't heavily anime-coded. I don't mind the touhou and to a lesser extent the Cave aesthetic, but it'd be nice to play something a bit more suited to my personal artistic tastes with still that really psychedelic bullet style.

Close attachment to my first ever schmup I rented back in the day. Cool music, huge selection of special weapons, 2p tag team ability, Tomcat that goes to space and kills aliens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XavePAB7JE

>>11884242
Is it? Genesis is designed to display a ton of sprites. There's no scaling or any thing, and that directly translates to an awful sense of depth perception in the gameplay.

>Battle Garegga's rank system was to cater to the core audience of shmups (which, at that point in time, were incredibly proficient at the games) while still having some accessibility to somebody sitting down at the machine who isn't going to get passed stage 2 without practicing. Its also worth noting that criticising arcade games for trying to make profit is very unfair - it is their business model: get people engaged with the game asap, but also get them off the game asap. Games that were blatantly unfair were unsuccessful in the arcade - players could tell a game that was just trying to take your money and would not play it. STGs (especially danmakus and proto-danmakus like Garegga, GrindStormer etc) are the quintessential "tough but fair" games before that was a popular turn-of-phrase by games journos
How accurate is this?

>>11884938
Midway's unfair credit feeders seemed to make money. They kept making them and they all got a million console ports.

>posting on /v/
You didn't actually do this, right anon?

>>11884943
Garegga was released in 1996, long after midway stopped shoveling out slop (presumably because people stopped buying it)

>>11884943
That's because Americans are stupid.

Shmup? More like shmuck. Heh heh.

>>11872853
Night Stalker, Panzer Dragoon, Omega Boost, Sin and Punishment

>>11884962
Meh

>>11875570
>I really prefer shmups without bombs
I don't like bombs either, because it's just skipping content, and I enjoy actually learning the game than skipping it.

But I just don't use bombs. You don't have to bomb either, anon. You can actually play the whole game. You might enjoy games better if you have the ability to curate your own gameplay.

Here is my shitty T-list so far into this journey.
the only one i havent 1cc'd here is Crimzon and GB2. but i will attempt to 1cc them.

>>11885329
That's just how CAVE uses them really, bombs can be cool elsewhere and essential to routing outside of TLBs.

>>11885329
It's just archaic design. You sacrificie a whole button for a mechanic which thousands of games already did before you, just you can spam unbalanced bullshit patterns at the player he has no chance of dodging without extensive practice. It's the "easy way out card" for developers.

>>11885452
Ah, the fresh smell of cope in the morning.

>>11885454
Shmuppers have the ability to turn a blind eye on bad game design with savestate pracc and replay copymonkeying, which they are proud to use. He's right.

>>11885481
If you spent more time shooting and dodging shit instead of coping on an anonymous imageboard, you would probably accomplish something.

>>11885487
That I did. I 1cc'd many shmups, DOJWL included, and saw more of their flaws the more I played.

>>11885507
Difficult stages aren't a flaw.

>>11885509
Depends on how difficult they are. CAVE second loops and everything in them is just one huge flaw. Nobody has fun doing those. If anyone claim they did, they lie for clout.

>>11885517
>CAVE second loops and everything in them is just one huge flaw.
How? Keeping that stuff as a second extra loop for people who really want to play more is exactly what they are doing right, especially since you need to do specific requirements above 1cc.
> Nobody has fun doing those.
Speak for yourself. Although I can agree for DOJWL, starting with no extends is stupid and it feels like the game isn't rewarding you for doing well on the first loop, but that was promptly fixed in the black label version.

>>11885509
It's not about the difficulty, but HOW you achieve the difficulty.
In shmups the difficulty just comes from hard bullet patterns you need to practice a lot in order to save your bombs for later hard patterns.

Now compare this to the difficulty in Radiant Silvergun. This game doesn't really have very hard bullet patterns, but it's still hard, because it has a unique chaining system you have to follow in order to power up your weapons. That is an actually innovative game design and different.

It also could have just increasd the bullet speed and count and add regular bombs to the player, that's how Cave or Psiyko would have done it.

>>11885521
They are not balanced, not intuitive and not remotely fair for people who play without savestates and don't watch replays. I don't do that, but somehow I have a 1-ALL in this game, whereas I can confidently say 2-ALL difficulty is way too much, probably for anyone if they were to play like this. I know Japanese supers could do it back then, but they are very extreme and negligible cases.

>>11885538
>In shmups the difficulty just comes from hard bullet patterns
Stopped reading here.
Play more shmups and then we can talk.

>>11885539
>I know Japanese supers could do it back then, but they are very extreme and negligible cases.
They are literally the target audience, so it's working as intended. All without emu tools, arguably only replay videos if somebody were to inclined to film themselves.

>>11885540
In most shmups. Most shmups just give the player bombs instead of creating something different.

>>11885540
>Play more shmups and then we can talk.
I probably have better scores than you. Your fake elitism doesn't help your argument.

>>11885542
>They are literally the target audience
That's not really true. If they would be the target audience, there would be no bombs in DOJ at all. There also would be no easy and novice modes in Mushi.

Cave obviously wanted to attract more casual players too, but didn't really have the creativity to know how.

>>11885550
Giving bombs doesn't mean you can't do anything more than bullet patterns.

>>11885554
And I'm sure you are about to post all of them.

>>11885561
>If they would be the target audience, there would be no bombs in DOJ at all.
The target audience for the second loop, anon. Jap players unironically asked for harder shit, companies delivered whie still letting everyone else play every stage on the single loop at a more reasonable difficulty.
>There also would be no easy and novice modes in Mushi.
Added retroactively in modern ports. The easiest mode in Mushi was Original.

>>11885568
>Giving bombs doesn't mean you can't do anything more than bullet patterns.
Of course, but the bombs are still at the core of the gameplay. I think bombs in shmups are a big reason why casual players often think all shmups play the same and why they have no interest in the genre. I'm not saying shmups with bombs are bad games, but they do have archaic design at their core.

>>11885576
>I think bombs in shmups are a big reason why casual players often think all shmups play the same and why they have no interest in the genre
I'm blaming touhou for that, casuals seem to think the only choice you have in the genre is either danmaku style(and specifically the cheaply-made 2hu style with shitty stages et all, with a larger focus on just dodging patterns) or space invaders.

>>11885583
>I'm blaming touhou for that
I mean there are literally hundreds of shmups with just regular screen clear bombs. Other arcade genres too. When every 2nd game in a genre has this same mechanic, then people not really familiar with it will think it's a bit samey.

>>11885597
>I mean there are literally hundreds of shmups
But they aren't as known.
> When every 2nd game in a genre has this same mechanic, then people not really familiar with it will think it's a bit samey.
I get that, but it feels like only people who are already into shmups even bother paying attention to bomb systems.

>>11885607
>But they aren't as known.
I don't think most casual players even know 2hu very much. They rather get their impressions from games like Raiden and the huge influence it had on umpteens of other games.

>>11885617
Or better said Toaplan. I think Raiden was influenced by Toaplan rather.

>>11885617
>>11885620
Only if these casuals in questions are like 50+ yo really.
Otherwise the face of shmups nowadays is touhou.

>>11885631
Maybe, but 2hu didn't have the impact on the genre like Raiden or Toaplan had.

>>11885639
It's not about impact here, we are talking about how casuals get exposed to the genre. You are speaking from the perspective of somebody who is already already a seasoned gamer nowadays, or didn't play vidya for like 30 years or so.

>>11885648
If all they know is 2hu then they also can't even form an opinion about the genre.
The opinion comes from the hundreds of shmups which all have the Raiden and Toaplan style.

>>11885659
>If all they know is 2hu then they also can't even form an opinion about the genre.
You would be surprised.
Of course it wouldn't be a very useful opinion, but it might be enough to write off the genre for them.

>>11884960
That's literally the same year as Cruisin World.

>>11885732
>Cruisin'
>Slop
>Coin muncher
Go home

I have to play more It reminds me a bit of Radiant Silvergun with its weapon porn and RPG mechanics.

>>11886030
Meant to say Caladrius Blaze.

>>11884030
I AM SEETHING

>>11886302(also me)
>watch replays
>see that you can make save state during the playback
>u wot
>reload at the last pattern for the sake of
>full dodge first attempt
Now I am even more mad.

>>11886302
Which port of DOJ has all those gadgets/HUD?

>>11886578
M2 Shot Triggers on PS4/Switch

>>11883901
I like DariusBurst CS, but I think it's terrible to play in handheld mode, so it's better to buy the game on Steam where you can set up two monitors (I don't think you can do that on Switch).

I've been taking a little break from Ketsui and decided to get Kyukyoku Tiger-Heli, focusing mainly on Tiger-Heli for now. Very cool dadshit that I managed to get a 1-ALL for in just a few hours, although now I'm trying to break into Top 10 because 530,000 is the for sure score for such a thing and now I can barely make it back to Stage 3. It's just like Ketsui all over again.

>>11886753
>It's just like Ketsui all over again
try ketsui on the NDS, took me a while to get gud, done all modes except doom mode

>>11883901
G-Darius also gets my vote, while i love all the darius games, G-Darius is goat.

avoid the pc version of G-Darius HD it was broken as shit on release, surprising for M2.

>>11886804
I've been meaning to get to that at some point. Heard it's just a boss rush outside of Extra Mode but I don't mind that.

>>11886814
Darius II is the best Darius and always will be.

Darius Gaiden is considered the best by most, but Darius II is more like a work of art.

>>11885539
>not remotely fair for people who play without savestates and don't watch replays
What do you mean by not fair? It's difficult?

Personally I have the most fun just grinding the game in isolation working things out all by myself like a big boy.

>>11886818
>Darius II
The mega drive version, sure.

>>11886840
Yeah it's a great version but lacks the voice over in the beginning.

>>11886816
>Heard it's just a boss rush outside of Extra Mode
im not sure about that, i didnt really play it after finding how shit it ran, it has a few different versions of the game, theres 2 arcade versions, the console version (which the original pc release was) and a HD version, it ran like shit on an i5-2500k+980Ti, yet my 2006 pc (core2duo with nvidia 7900gtx) can run all versions of the game even the ps2 version emulated at full speed. M2 fucked this one up good. so avoid the pc version.

>>11886818
i do like darius II, like this anon here>>11886840
the megadrive version is very playable and not overly difficult, the recent Darius Extra on megadrive i think scrolls a little too fast for me, it could also be the scaling, if it were more like darius II i'd find the game more enjoyable,

i do agree that darius II is pure art, G-darius is where it peaked, the capture balls is also a cool feature not sure why they dropped it with burst.

Touhou!

>>11886819
What I meant is that with second loop you would be spending up to 40-50 minutes just to try a strategy once. This as well could be a troll that went too far and became the norm.

But really though, it doesn't matter. Maybe I truly am coping. I've been playing shmups too much to disregard many of the design choices that I personally disagree with. They pile up and take all the fun out of it for me. Instead of changing my mindset over it I just blackpilled out. I still occasionally play them though. Recently played Ikaruga for the first time.

>Personally I have the most fun just grinding the game in isolation working things out all by myself like a big boy.
You do you. If you are actually having fun and not held hostage by sunk cost fallacy and Stockholm syndrome, and/or chasing community clout, great. Schizo poster on 4chan validates (You)

>>11885542
>They are literally the target audience
Certaintly they didn't end up being the most overall money-paying audience.

go play mars matrix

>>11887246
Why doesn't MM have any modern ports?

>>11887246
That's actually a legit good game but it's quite fucking hard.

>>11887246

I just read that theres a romhack that breaks out MM's unique weapons to individual buttons and I cant help but think thats a neat idea but doesnt it miss the point? Isnt making it function like the other 95% of shmups removing all uniqueness?
I dont have any issue with saturn RS allowing 7 buttons to remove button restrictions as it doesnt affect the gameplay, but somehow I feel like MM's entire game was built around juggling the timing of the single button.

>>11872853
Jupiter Strike.
From the little I played of it I have no clue how to deal with the space ship interior boss.

Currently playing einhander

Damn i love this aesthetic,3D visuals on Shmup is so peak

The presentation is awesome,why modern indie dev don't take inspiration from this era?

>>11887486
>why modern indie dev don't take inspiration from this era?
That would take effort and actual artistic vision.

>>11887461
It's a good idea but having to activate separate weapons with different button press intervals necessarily requires input lag on the part of the game for processing the inputs

>can get through each stage individually with only a couple of misses
>begin 1cc attempt
>get clipped cheaply frequently
>die to bosses i can beat without bombing or missing
Something about my brain stops me from succeeding. It takes me far too long to get clears than it really should.

What are some underappreciated rail-shooters?

>>11872349
Star Fox has always been a shmup. Who the fuck says a shmup isn't a shmup?

>>11887742
It's a rail shooter not a shmup

>>11887737
Knife Edge by Kemco. It is relatively shitty, but I have a lot of nostalgia for it. Worth emulating if you have played SF64 to death.

>>11887746
A rail shooter is a type of shmup.

>>11875647
Trying it rn.
A bit high on the memo shit but it's fun enough. Might try to 1cc advanced mode with a custom team.

We finally did. I 1cced Daioujou WL. It was my first DDP game, so it took some getting used to.

I accidently let the bomb at stage 2 boss escape, because I waited too long to start hypering and bombing. This resulted in having only 1 bomb and hyper on stage 3 boss. i almost made it there anyway because I perfectly used the hyper shortly before its transition to the last phase, so could get in a lot of hits. Then I bombed and another hyper spawned, but immediatly as I grabbed it, I died. Boss only needed 1 more bullet to die.

The cart section went pretty well, but I made a big mistake on the extra life cannon. I ended up too late in my starting position, which messed up my route for it, and I accidently used 2 laser bombs on it, almost killing the main part. I also died on it, but then got the extend. Rails went wellwith 2 bombs and a hyper. Laser cannon was very suss but I didnt die. Still no clue how to do it.

at that point I knew I had to save bombs on stage 4 boss. i only had 3 bombs in stock but managed to not die on it anyway, which went very well for my standards.

Stage 5 beginning went great, but died at first DDP mid-boss. Used 1 hyper and 2 bombs at beehive section which went well for me. Did the first pipe section really welll. The rest was not great but also not terrible. Had 3 bombs and 1 bonus life when I came to the endboss. I used all of it, every single bomb (7 in total).

My PB is actually 60 million but that wasn't a clear.
it's a great game, but a bit frustrating and archaic. I played on steam deck so the dodging was really tight. Probably would have been easier on a bigger screen and a stick.

>>11887857
Nice. Based and Leinyan pilled too.
I did a run on the M2 switch port yesterday myself with B-L of the arcade version(aka WL) but I fucking died like 2 seconds before killing the final boss lol. See above.

>>11887486
They do, there's tons of low poly games on Steam.
If you mean shoot em ups specifically, it is because they are typically made by like 1 dude, or the graphics are.

>>11887863
Yea, it's really tough at the end. I died 2 times on the rng enboss phase with the long pink bullet sticks. I never really practiced the endboss tho. Just hoped to have enough bombs for it.

Did I ever post this here? It's one of my favorite shmup clips
https://streamable.com/h5k0yo
Context: I was wondering if, through the debug menu, it was possible to for TSS CPU to achieve a story mode 1cc. It fucking delivered. Unfortunately, I didn't catch the entire run but I got both this and the final score. Other than what you see at the start of every match, the game is on default settings.

>>11875647
>armed constabulary flying marsupial

>nephew constantly getting the wrong power-ups in Mushi co-op

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aCPIBbiTYs&t=59

CAVE? Actually, in Japlish it's pronounced CAR-VEH.

Computer Art Visual Eroge

Dadders rule, Cavekeks drool.

>>11882035
There's more than memorization. They also involve strategy, reflexes, are fast and thrilling, etc. Try playing one once.

Now scroll up every shmup thread on here or /v/ and see which ones are actually playing games.

>find out armed police batrider difficulty rank is affected by how many credits you put in the machine
>as in, not how many times you continued, the literal number of credits displayed, playing on 1 credit and 10 credits isn't the same
... right, it's from the people who made Garegga, sure.
Cool game tho, slowly but surely learning how to deal with the random stages before focusing on the second half for advanced mode.

>>11889914
>rank is affected by how many credits you put in the machine
Genius idea lol. And people wonder why Ikaruga is more popular.

>>11887246
you should record some videos in english faggot

>>11886816
>I've been meaning to get to that at some point. Heard it's just a boss rush outside of Extra Mode
i just realised im a brainlet and replied some shit about gdarius instead of ketsui, but yeah you're right it pretty much is a boss rush, i forget if it all is or just the harder modes, its definitely worth a play, i enjoyed it despite being a tate shmup, on a small horizontal screen.

>>11890702
Ha, it's all good man. I'll admit though, I was wondering where a PC version of Ketsui was floating around without my knowledge.

>>11866020 (OP)
You look me in the eye and tell me that the Twinbee isn't the finest, probably most fun to fly ship there. Fucking tryhards roll up in their Dic Diapers.

>>11870536
you gotta rotate it then play them laying on your side.

>>11866020 (OP)
JRPGs are better.

>>11873240
>ruined
you mean liberated it
can't believe you got filtered by this jomon tribe Übermensch.

Favorite Shmup OST?

Mine is Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth. Solid game too. Has a fun reflective shield mechanic. But the music is so goddamn good. Will take any recommendations for similar OSTs.

https://youtu.be/nuky6f_0UcI?si=qCu7NEtVx9P_ajse

>>11891194
The PS1 Final Fantasies were awesome, but people liked these tye of games a bit too much. Not enough arcade games anymore.

>>11891423
Espgaluda 2, or Cho Ren Sha

Ayyy I've cleared Hishou Zame's first loop!

Fuck, who's that one player that got really mad and had a spergout on livestream some years and years ago? It was funny but I can't find it anymore

>>11891792
>DoDonPachi DOJ - FAILED RUN becomes ANGRY RAMPAGE 1CC (w/ commentary)
?

What's the best way to play double plays? I want to give it another try but it just feels so awkward on steam deck. The back buttons on the deck are good for it, but it's so awkward to play with analogue sticks. Playing with 2 sticks also seems hard. They are just too big for double play.

>>11866027
Never knew about this game. Looks quite smooth for an NES game. Is this homebrew or something?

>>11867331
>>11873939
Wake me up when the new Bithead drops

>>11891792
Aktane?

Video title
https://streamable.com/wykz2t
Dadshmups not beating the quarter muncher allegations tonight.

>>11893162
What if, you know, suicide for rank management? Is this your first Yagawa game?

>>11893193
>Is this your first Yagawa game?
Actually yes

>>11893196
Ah, gotchu. Most of Yagawa's games are about technical scoring, from milking bosses to destroying parts of scenarios, and as for survival, the game expects you to intentionally die ocassionally in order to lower the game rank; that and not abusing the autofire or grabbing more power items than you already need. They're super unique and super fun until you get the hang on them, but your average shmup joe would have a hard time playing them

>>11893162
>batrider
>dadshmup

>>11893209
By abusing autofire, do you mean the mechanic where you can release the options and fire without pressing buttons? Or literally holding the shot button instead of pressing it repeatedly?
Anyway yeah I was just grabbing everything, it works until stage 5, but the last two become nearly unplayable.

>>11893212
It doesn't have bullet hell(if not by accident?) and it was made pre2000s, therefore dadshmup

>>11893162
Well if you're such a youngster shouldn't you have the reaction speed for that?

>>11885583
Most casuals have played Ikaruga and Gradius, more often than any Touhou game, so this doesn't make sense. Sameyness doesn't really matter to people if they consider even the easiest ones autistically hard and don't finish or 1CC the first one they start playing, and give up on and any other ones.

Is it a good idea to learn to chain stage 1 of DOJ? My attempts that make it to stage 5 are usually around 40 mil, unless I get some really good hypers there I can't reach 50

>2CC UN Squadron using Retroarch
>Figure out my monitor is adding at least 100ms of latency
Wow so this is why this game pissed me off so much.

>>11881931
I'm a newfag to these and like learning routes on my own, so I definitely abuse save states until I learn a good approach to them and get consistent at every segment. Then full stage runs, then going for 1CC. A big thing is not to practice things you won't actually use in the final route because of bombing it.