It's kind of sad how such a great classic game went on to directly influence the industry in such a negative way on so many levels

In what way?

>>11867014
Seriously? WoW and the mmo boom(which made Blizzard profitable enough to be purchased by Activision and completely destroy the company), the dota and the moba boom(which killed rts), all future modern fantasy games cheaply trying to imitate its artstyle, one of the most disgraceful remake/remasters that literally killed the original game...

>>11867019
Don't forget how the fucking horse armor in Wow kickstarted the cosmetic paid dlc cancer

>>11867014
>In what way?
90's and 2000's Blizzard "ruined" things by being too good and/or fun, basically.

>>11867019
RTS died because the genre has barely any variety between games, and what little attempts to deviate from the formula has been pretty mediocre at best. They all rip eachother off the same way build engine games ripped eachother off, but there is still a million directions FPS' have gone while RTS almost always plays the same. It only appeals to idiots that can replay the same game over and over again, because they are addicted to the dopamine hit of being good at something. The same way moba retards can play the same map and the same character over and over again.

WC3 was one of the best deviations from the formula and you still have retarded autists crying about how it isn't a true RTS like WC2 was. These idiots are the ones that killed the genre.

>>11867012 (OP)
DOTA was made on this and Blizzard missed out on a whole billion dollar market from it. They changed the terms of service when they relaunched it as Reforged (which was botched af) and ruined a lot of the custom games using audio files and stuff that were copyrighted materials. I am actually playing this online again now and loving it. I am still learning but had a damn good start with my last Dreadlord. Had a ring of protection +3 and attack claws +5 drops.

>>11867037
Whatever space in the market there was for rts was taken over by mobas. Do you see mobas(a genre that originates from warcraft 3 custom maps) has having had a positive impact on the industry? Not to mention that wow's insane profits killed any possibility of a warcraft 4(an rts that could have actually had a chance of being successful)

>it's bad because... other games released after it
one of the most tiresome memes out there. go ahead and blame RE4 for every bad third-person shooter in existence, as if that style of over-the-shoulder game wasn't destined to be made eventually

>>11867082
>it's bad because... other games released after it
Do you even know how to read? OP literally refers to War 3 as "such a great classic game"

MOBAs had nothing to do with killing off RTS, that's a meme. The genre was already running out of ideas and dying off when DotA became an esports thing and people started making clones of it. By 2010 when Heroes of Newerth and LoL were launched, Ensemble Studios was shut down because Microsoft made them focus on various failed Halo projects after AoE3 had a lukewarm reception, and C&C died after two bad games in a row that everyone disliked. RTS was like fighting games, it had a boom period when everyone tried to make their own next SF/MK/AoE/SC/C&C but then realized that there's only like 2 or 3 successful gameplay formulas that everyone likes and those were already staked out by major companies. Those companies just proceeded to fumble the shit out of the genre.

>>11867030
I think you got WoW mixed up with Oblivion

>>11867126
>MOBAs had nothing to do with killing off RTS, that's a meme. The genre was already running out of ideas and dying off when DotA became an esports thing and people started making clones of it. By 2010 when Heroes of Newerth and LoL were launched,
All thanks to Warcraft 3

>>11867126
>DotA became an esports thing and people started making clones of it. By 2010 when Heroes of Newerth and LoL were launched,
All thanks to Warcraft 3

>>11867059
>Whatever space in the market there was for rts was taken over by mobas.
This is so easily disprovable. Even build engine style boomer shooters have come back and turned a profit. COD and Counter Strike didn't stop that from happening. Total War Warhammer is one of the most profitable game series on Steam.

>Do you see mobas(a genre that originates from warcraft 3 custom maps) has having had a positive impact on the industry? Not to mention that wow's insane profits killed any possibility of a warcraft 4(an rts that could have actually had a chance of being successful)
In this day and age there is no excuse for RTS to be as dead as it is. No excuse. Even if big studios abandoned their old series there was either an indie or AA studio that cropped up in its place and got as big or bigger than the games they imitated. Yet in RTS everyone copies the same tired templates and it inevitably flops. Even the TW community seethes about WH3 not being a historical game.

It's a you problem.

>>11867140
Did you read the rest of the post? MOBAs didn't kill RTS because there was nothing to kill by 2010. AoE was already dead for years, C&C became synonymous with EA garbage slop, SC2 was mid and got shelved in favor of more WoW, and the market for clones of all of these dried up. I was there. People were talking about RTS dying years before MOBA even became a term. Name 5 games from the era that could become the next Big Thing but were killed by the perfidious dotards, you can't.

>>11867148
AoE2 and WC3 still have decently sized scenes desu, they're just kind in their own bubble like people who still play competitive SF3 or something.

>>11867189
He'll just say the dota gamemode from the 2000s in wc3 killed RTS. It's the big cope in the RTS community. I really like RTS but almost the entire genre is derivative slop garbage. Other genres copy eachother and have weird trends, but RTS by far is the worst offender. Other RTS fans cannot accept this reality.

>>11867189
Holy shit you fuckers are hellbent on derailing the thread. Mobas taking over is fucking cancer regardless of whatever influence or lack thereof they may have had on the future of the rts genre.

>>11867204
Not retro

>>11867204
Any sequence of events that led to me being able to play Awesomenauts for 1988.4 hours is a good one

>>11867030
That was Oblivion you moron

>>11867082
Killswitch released first.

You're thinking Halo 2. Halo 2 was responsible for the death of split screen for popularizing Xbox Live.

>>11867204
they're the reason why classic blizzard threads failed
come to think of it, they're the reason why blizzard failed

>>11867820
The Blizzard gen had basically ‘died’ well before Remastered talk had happened, unless you’re referring to the custom mapping posting.

>>11867019
So why is that Warcraft III’s fault instead of WOW itself? That’s like blaming Morrowind for Horse Armor because it’s success allowed oblivion to be made

>>11867019
Blame Everquest's success for making blizzard want to step into mmo market.
Like everyone wanted to make their own "WoW" after, they just wanted to make their own "Everquest" because it was too good.

>>11867410
>no online co-op
>4 player split-screen online
don't be an idiot

Fellas, there's no need to argue which X killed what Y. It's simple, as soon as people start chasing worldly goods, everything inevitably falls apart, this story is as old as the time itself. RTS, as quality games in general and many other things, turned out the way it did, because people’s priorities switched from realizing their dreams and passions to making successful business, that’s all.

>>11867189
>sc2 was mid
wtf is this doofus opinion?
>>11867852
Yeah, this. First they sperg’d out over WoW talk happening in the gen, then it was the remastered nonsense. They sacrificed a good, fun gen in pursuit of their own autist compulsions.
>>11868253
Good summary, Blizz is definitely a victim of its own success. Interesting to note, though, is they’ve been someone else’s subsidiary for almost their entire existence. It wasn’t until the late 2000s that activision started actively fucking with blizzard and the exodus of talent began to ramp up. Similar outcome after all the good people left lucasarts after 2005.

>>11867036
I support this board being created because Blizzard games are all sterile bullshit for extremely boring guys who follow the status quo and wear black t shirts and khaki cargo shorts (and glasses). They need a containment zone for their boring personalities.

Every blizzard enjoyer currently has an “all white gaming pc” because that’s the most basic bitch way to feel sophisticated and anyone disagreeing with this comment is posting from an “all white gaming pc”. Thats who Blizzard people are, basic spergs who dress plainly with no personality. Thats what I’ve noticed in over 3 decades of life.

The people who have liked blizzard games have no soul and it’s always been true, they have always been a soulless company and Diablo and Warcraft fucking suck and always have, Diablo especially. Diablo isn’t even a game, it’s a calculator you program and then press left click once.

This isn’t a bait post not that it means anything here, just know if you are a hardcore blizzard fan, I hate you and think you’re boring,

>>11868391
lol man, is there any room in your cosmology for those of us who liked blizzard games but were able to then turn off the pc and go outside to enjoy normal life?

>>11868417
Shut up you boring piece of shit.

>>11868372
>Yeah, this. First they sperg’d out over WoW talk happening in the gen, then it was the remastered nonsense. They sacrificed a good, fun gen in pursuit of their own autist compulsions.
The period in between initial WoW talk and "is Remastered okay" was when it started really drying up. The original OP had to go on a business trip right when interest started coming to a crawl. Threads were frequently bumped from the bottom few pages for several weeks in a row.
Things were getting slow even before that. That's when I checked out that "beginner's custom mapping" guide that got posted and started to get carried away with what I was making. A few other posters started to show some map progress which was cool to see.

Blizzgen went sour the moment they alienated the op image maker who was pumping the thread with content. The whole debacle was ridiculous and petty but I too was starting to get put off by how any time something negative was said someone would always be ready to jump in and blindly defend it and claim that anyone that criticizes the game is a troll that wants the thread to fail.

>>11868460
>Blizzgen went sour the moment they alienated the op image maker who was pumping the thread with content.
That anon seemed to have incredible difficulty with people who didn't agree with his preference against WC3's attempt at fully-3D portraits compared to what they managed in previous Blizzard games, and it also seemed to be something he was strangely passionate about. It was all around unfortunate.

>>11868460
>>11868513
I remember that. Shame, really, I enjoyed Blizzgen while it lasted.

Has reforged been fixed yet?

>>11867048
>ruined a lot of the custom games using audio files and stuff that were copyrighted materials
RIP Run Kitty Run

wc3 was the end of the warcraft franchise at least, completely killed the entire vibe that wc2 had perfected

>>11867019
RTS died because they are not good to play on consoles. You need mouse/kb to play them effectively. Developers obviously want to release on console too.

>>11868037
not only that, wow was in development before war3 was even released. he's a fucking retard.

>>11868372
>Blizz is definitely a victim of its own success
i think the real beginning of the end was the entire wow dev team being fired shortly after vanilla released. they already had most of TBC planned out at that point. it's why wrath feels so different from what came before it; it was a completely different team.

>>11870148
>RTS died because they are not good to play on consoles
if that were true, MOBAs would have never gotten big.

>>11868391
Holy moly you sound like a faggot.
>dude t shirts
What kind of queer eye shit is this? You're upset that normal guys wear basic clothing instead of soimale flannel button downs and skinny jeans or something? I don't get it.

I bet you hate id software games too. You probably love command and conquer and unreal tournament because you've made an identity out of being a contrarian even if it means slurping slop. Imagine hating Starcraft and Diablo, what an absolute groid you are.

>>11868447
>>11868460
>>11868513
>>11868551
I really don’t see why blizzgen couldn’t be started up again. Just ignore the fags arguing about wow/remastered (they were useful idiots, kept the threads bumped) and focus on the good conversation. The mapmaking content was getting good right before the plug got pulled.
>>11869645
>has reforged been fixed yet?
Idk I think they did a big patch late last year, so you can play without any of the new graphics, etc. It’s still a scar on an otherwise legendary game, though. Also, what used to fit neatly on a cd is now takes up like 50GB of space, so lazy.

>>11867019
>dota and the moba boom(which killed rts)
RTS was already a zombie genre by the time anybody was using the term "moba"

>>11870575
>What kind of queer eye shit is this? You're upset that normal guys wear basic clothing instead of soimale flannel button downs and skinny jeans or something? I don't get it.
You don't get it because you're a sperg. Men have always cared about male fashion, because it signals social awareness and status, which women have always found to be extremely important male characteristics. Of course, this means nothing to you if your girlfriend is a 2D .png file drawn by some sweaty Japanese man.

>>11867410
Man I been having a hankering for some halo 1 and 2 lately. I wish I still had friends.

>>11867019
>>11867012 (OP)
WOW lore and gameplay were totally different from WC3 so you might be retarded.

i agree that e-sports DOTA and LOL ruined the RTS genre though.

>>11870983
Frozen throne expansion was basically just about setting up the pieces for WoW to take place

>>11870915
>Of course, this means nothing to you if your girlfriend is a 2D .png file drawn by some sweaty Japanese man.
My "girlfriend" is my wife who's given me three children over the last 13 years, and I've spent the majority of that time walking around the house in a tank top and hanes boxer shorts. I think you might just be a faggot bro.

>>11870558
NTA but I kinda agree with that anon. Moba's are dirt cheap compared to an RTS, because they don't have a campaign. The budget for League was estimated to be around $400k max. By the mid-2000s you could not convince a publisher to spend a huge budget on a PC game (thanks to Microsoft) unless it was a "WoW killer".

I don't think that's the whole story, though. RTS is just fundamentally harder to design for than other genres. The majority of the genre is derivative slop imitating the handful of standout games.

>>11870851
>I really don’t see why blizzgen couldn’t be started up again.
If genuine interest towards Blizz stuff starts picking up again I might throw something together. There were multiple Blizz game threads going on around the time it was first posted. I probably would be more welcoming to WoW and even remastered talk.

>>11871047
There's also the fact that StarCraft and Warcraft3 were center stage when it came to eSports but then League of Legends took over, sponsors injected all the money into it so the blizz games got sidelined. We even saw some starcraft/warcraft proplayers making the shift to league

>>11871056
just include all retro blizzard games, it's not that hard. my only issue was that with the thread. the OP thought he could be autistically selectively because some games made him seethe. i hate their SNES games (i've played them and they all suck don't @ me over them) but i wouldn't ban discussion because of that reason alone.

>>11871069
Both of those games were a decade+ old by the time that happened and they Blizzard also stopped supporting them unlike modern esports games which are constantly being reworked.

>>11871085
They tried desperately to make StarCraft 2(2010) happen but LoL(2009) had taken over

>>11871056
>>11871076
Do it. No matter how sperging goes on, it’d still be worth more than all the troll slide threads constantly polluting this board.
>>11871167
>tried to make sc2 happen
SC2 esports during the WoL era was actually pretty happening, I enjoyed it a lot, even had a few ranked friends get coverage from some of the bigger casters back then. HotS sucking, fps, and moba shit killed it because attention spans vastly declined after 2012. And now it’s Fortnite. But there was never anything wrong with sc2 itself.

>>11871037
send proof liar

>>11867036
If you think classic blizzard includes WoW, you're a zoomer and a faggot

>>11873174
the rules allow it, you're in the wrong here sweaty :^)

>>11873342
>the rules allow it
rules don't determine what is right and true.

>>11873342

BUILD MORE FARMS!
MORE GOLD IS REQUIRED!

>>11873174
I’d call it “board safe retro Blizzgen” or just “Blizzgen. “Classic Blizzgen” is dead.

>>11873346
well it's a good thing this board isn't catering to one assmad autist's worldview

>>11873463
I'm sorry your parents let you get addicted to wow in your formative years and now you're a broken human being

>>11867410
Halo 1 and 2 fucked up by not having multiplayer bots. My friends and I played Timesplitters and 007 Nightfire instead because they had them.

>>11873472
i played wow vanilla way too much and enjoyed the fuck out of it, had my first girlfriend at 16 and had a normal upbringing. keep projecting though.

how about you look at yourself for one moment? you are a man in your 30s having an autistic tantrum over people discussing a game you don't like. i think you're the broken human being here.

>>11873518
I have a wife and kid, I'm currently working (remote, in a home I own) at a great programming job. I was telling you that Wow is not classic blizzard. And you know I'm right, because your defense was that it is old enough to be on VR, which is completely unrelated to the argument.

>my first girlfriend at 16
Sorry you peaked in high school bruh

without warcraft 3, we wouldn't have bloons TD6

>>11873346
Being wrong and false isn't going to stop me.

>>11873524
>having a girlfriend is peaking
you are perhaps the saddest man i've ever seen.

>>11873529

>>11873532
>>having a girlfriend is peaking
If you don't have a wife and child, then yeah, you've already peaked.

>>11873534
That's right I'm going to pleb all over your board.

>>11873524
>I was telling you that Wow is not classic blizzard.
No more or less "classic" than WC3 honestly, the game that was most often posted about in that classic blizzard thread.

>>11873539
Good point. WC3 fags can get the rope too

>>11873524
>I have a wife and kid
yeah i don't believe that lol

>your defense was that it is old enough to be on VR
that's because that's all i need.

>which is completely unrelated to the argument.
what argument?
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Y-YOU CAN'T DISCUSS THIS GAME MADE BEFORE THE 2007 CUTOFF BECAUSE...B-BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T!
is not an argument. the intensity by which you are peeing and pooping your diaper over this does not make it more valid.

this is getting embarrassing for you. you've now gone several posts with nothing but ad hominems and impotent screeching. we're not on the same intellect levels so there's nothing left to discuss. don't reply to me again because i won't be reading it.

Having given the core PvP mode of Warcraft 3 a shot after years of assuming it was dead in the water, I can safely say that Warcraft 3 is one of the most fun games I've played in years, and it blows my mind that it's so obscure when it has elements of what makes great games baked into it's DNA.

The game is easy to control, reasonable to understand, and difficult to master. The de-emphasis on macro and focus on Heroes, micro, and tactics makes this an RTS where you're actually strategizing and always attempting to maximize your options even when you're on the back foot.

Unlike SC2 or AoE2 where the gameplay is exclusively on the realm of expanding else you lose, Warcraft 3 has you leveraging the game's systems to think about what sort of gameplan you want to employ in a match. If you want to smash with a big army, you can do so. If you get smashed by a bigger army, you have to employ guerilla tactics, harassment, and maximizing your income at 50 Pop with Upkeep to wrestle away the lead from your opponent.

Creep camps that you have to fight over mean you're actually engaging with the game from minute 1, and are great conflict points that give you a clue as to where an enemy may or may not be so you can learn to scout with a purpose. The pathfinding isn't like SC2's liquid-smooth pathfinding so you actually have to lead an army around the map with wide turns to maintain formation and prevent yourself from being jumped.

The game's balance is better than it's ever been in the games history, even if Night Elves have been OP economically at high levels last patch. It's also one of the few games next to Heroes of the Storm where the devs actually listen and actually care. The three people on the Warcraft 3 team give a fuck and it shows. The amount of technical debt they've been slogging through in the last year alone makes me side with them.

It is the perfect RTS. Play it.

The Blizzard that made Diablo and Warcraft died ages ago, just like the Bungie that made Marathon and Halo.
What a shame.

>>11868037
OP is deranged, none of this matters to him

>>11868372
>wtf is this doofus opinion?
SC2 was dogshit and was dogshit up until the latest recent patches. Degenerate, unfun metas dominated every expansion until they were reigned in by the Balance Council we have today. Even then, SC2 is a boring, mid game that only has it's 10/10 industry-leading controls carrying it.

>>11869645
The core game is fine and the game won't explode if you touch it anymore. It's a decent way to play Warcraft 3. The best way to play Warcraft 3 multiplayer is through the W3Champions ladder though.

>>11870915
>i exclusively dress like a suave detective, unlike you loser blizzard fans that dress in t shirts and jeans

>>11871056
Remastered and Reforged talk should be allowed so long as it's actually about enjoying the game and not about insisting the new graphical style are acceptable. They're just clients to enjoy older, good games.

>>11873518
>had my first girlfriend at 16
how is this relevant to literally anything? this isn't an achievment

>>11867019
So why are you blaming War3 for what WoW did? Might as well blame War1 then

Warcraft pre wow was actually good shareware!

>>11873662
>SC2 was dogshit and was dogshit up until the latest recent patches. Degenerate, unfun metas dominated every expansion until they were reigned in by the Balance Council we have today. Even then, SC2 is a boring, mid game that only has its 10/10 industry-leading controls carrying it.
I never had a problem with the metas in any expansion, nobody ever said you had to play competitively. Plenty of room to have fun and play creatively. The only thing I disliked was the overall quality of HotS campaign. I agree that there were balance issues, but I think they were pretty well fixed a long while ago.0y4dr

>>11867012 (OP)
I've seen a variation of this thread for months on and off is this Activision trying to sow dissent on this game so they can make something else and it not be directly put up against WC3?

>>11876360
>nobody ever said you had to play competitively
SC2 by it's very nature is competitive, from the lowest to the highest levels. for that, SC2 failed more than it succeeded in terms of it's balance.

>>11876394
Blizzard will never touch Warcraft again unless it's WoW or mobile game related.

The fact that Warcraft 3 is still getting balance patches and fixes is an anomaly. And frankly, it's better that way. Warcraft 3 team only has 3 people working on it, and they're doing their best to work through the years of technical debt that was shit all over them. If the "main" teams got ahold of Warcraft 3 they'd fuck it up even more than they already have.

Warcraft 3 and Heroes of the Storm are the only Blizzard games worth playing today.

>>11876402
This is blizzard trying to kill at least Warcraft in the current capacity. These threads are made with the same arguments over and over again so random anons that lurk will see and might have the second thought that maybe WC3 is bad after all so it makes it easier as time goes on to make it seem like these older games aren't worth keeping around vs any newer horseshit blizzard pops out. This is a psychological slow burn by people that worked or are still working in Blizzard like Brian Bulatao and Grant Dixon

>>11876425
>These threads are made with the same arguments over and over again so random anons that lurk will see and might have the second thought that maybe WC3 is bad after all
How is that leading to the conclusion that "it's bad after all"?

>>11876425
Then I will be right here yelling loudly that warcraft 3 is actually good and worth playing

Unless they fuck it up of course

>>11869645
Reforged itself is not fixed, but many of the custom maps have been fixed to work with Reforged. Honestly that's enough for me, what I hate is how you need to trick bnet into letting you install WC3 if you don't own Reforged.

>>11867012 (OP)
For most of the players back then, what they wanted was something more like WoW or Dota. The rts mechanics were simply a means to the end of feeling immersed in a world.

Now the only people who play rts are those who actually care more for the mechanics than the content, and without the other players to subsidize development, the genre has grown stale. With ai development allowing for smaller teams we will probably see a resurgence in this and other niche genres soon.

>>11868391
wtf
as a sophisticated adult, my PC is black, with no lights, and soundproofing instead of a window

>>11870915
the women i top only care that i'm cute :3

>>11876395
>SC2 by it's very nature is competitive, from the lowest to the highest levels
Nah, come on, I meant playing competitively as in ranked ladder matches. You don’t have to do that and can just play with friends etc for fun and not have to worry about metas, build orders, and the like. Also, yes, you are wasting half the game if you don’t do mp regularly, but there are many games out there that have or had competitive scenes where people were generally into them for the campaigns alone. What I’d really have loved in wc3 or sc2 was coop campaign.

>>11878523
Hard to split it off on competitive vs. non-competitive since getting units out faster than your opponent is standard play. I can only see Customs as non-competitive

>>11867037
>it's good because it allows scrubs like me to pretend to be good with its low skill ceiling
Just admit RTS aren't for you.

i had a lot of fun as a kid with the special maps and user maps. and we have warcraft 3 to thank for the entire genre of tower defense.

>>11867012 (OP)
Agreed, I feel the same way about Half-life games

They are good games on their own but the influence they had on the industry I think was mostly a negative one

>>11870019
The best game! Run Ling Run on SC2 is a thing and Tron. Those are great!

>>11876703
Reforged is simply an abomination. Idk who at blizzard thought it was a good idea, but all we ever wanted were continued QoL updates to the original game, which was totally doable with maintenance staff of 1-3 people handling it part-time, at this point. Stuff like HD widescreen support and bnet upgrades are fine. I just wanted to be able to keep playing the game I loved since 2002. I didn’t want shitty new graphics and content editing/removal and garbage balance adjustments for a game that was perfected back in 2009. I can’t emphasize how much I hate the shitty Chinese moba graphics they updated it with and how the file size is now like 50GB.

>>11881226
It was dogshit in 2020 but Reforged today is the best way of playing War3 PvP. No one uses the Temu graphics and you don't even have the option to turn them on if you play Reforged with your old RoC key

> garbage balance adjustments for a game that was perfected back in 2009

this is stupid and the games balance was shit compared to Brood War, especially in 2009. Balance today is better than it's ever been. No one plays versions before 2.0.3

>>11881249
I played ladder from 2003-2011, in and off. I thought it was just fine from 2006 on, the balance was optimal. Reforged was an unforced error.

>>11881249
Seems pretty balanced to me right now but I’m still learning the game. Don’t really see OP issues just a big learning curve from tech trees, counters, hero builds, etc… I like it even though I got like a 15% win rate. They placed me way too high I think at like 3500 MMR.

>>11881478
I played from 2004 to 2009 and it was good, but it's better today. Aside from some bad changes that were reverted early after Reforged launch, unit variety is much better today than it ever was.

Really, consider trying it. It's actually really good now.

>>11881509
Just keep losing until you get good games and your win rate will naturally go up. Bnet matchmaking is terrible so people don't take W/L seriously there, so just learn to play while you take your lumps until you move onto W3Champions.

>>11881509
Also, get W3Champions and use FloTV and filter by race and 1600+ MMR, and take notes as to what they do and the order of what buildings are dropped and when. A solid opener alone lets you just wing it from there and experiment and explore the game's mechanics. It's a lot of fun to learn.

>>11881249
Kek nice try blizzshill. We still won't play that censored Chinese mobile port.

>>11881581
>we

game's more popular than it's been in the last 10+ years

enjoy not playing games i guess

>>11867012 (OP)
Wow was the real problem

>>11881614
WoW was amazing on launch. I played until Trial of the Crusader. Got the best weapon in the game at the time and then sold my account. Tried playing again in Cata and then Mist dropped and I never hit level cap. Then I played Shadowlands and hit level cap but never did dungeons or raids. Game just isn’t fun anymore. Even “Classic” has loss its edge from minmaxing. It sucks that you can’t just explore a game anymore without a 30 page breakdown of BiS thesis.

>>11881614
WoW was fine up until Ulduar in WotLK, then it went to shit ASAP. Was never the same since

>>11881610
Still desperately trying to peddle that Malaysian slop I see. Still not playing.

>>11881517
Ok, you know what? I will give it another try. I know there’s a nonzero chance you’re a blizzard shill like >>11881581 said, but I’m not afraid of being wrong.

>>11883857
good luck. hopefully it doesn't bug out too hard. I love the game but it still does occasionally crash and I do have to load a replay to shake off a drop bug.

It's like a pure gold nugget with a layer of shit on it.

W3Champions fixes the drop bug though and offers better games. I always watch a few games on FloTV before I queue up.

>>11867012 (OP)
>War3 ruined vidya
I thought it was Ragnarok Online that did

>>11881614
>>11882530
>WoW was amazing on launch
>It sucks that you can’t just explore a game anymore without a 30 page breakdown of BiS thesis
I think this is what made those early vanilla years so fun despite the grinding. You didn’t have to digest a fuckton of lore or keep up to date. Every zone kind of had its own storyline, and grinding was also exploring. People always chimp out at me for saying this, but I hate how Cata trivialized leveling in the game to appeal to retard casuals. Suddenly, the comfy feeling of exploring places with a party was gone bc everyone just speed-leveled to get to endgame shit. I miss questing for hours in some remote area of kalimdor with my brother and maybe some guy who whispered to us and joined to finish a couple objectives. Even in BC there was this pressure to level asap and just forget most of the content in favor of running raids.
>>11882721
Wotlk was when things really started dying down bc the basic storyline driving everything since wc3 (2002) came to an end in 2009, and then the lore kept spinning out of control.

>>11885891
>started in TBC as a warrior, didn't really know what I was doing
>continued into WOTLK as a deathknight having a better idea of what I was doing
>started getting an idea of things with Cata, don't remember much besides constant dungeon queues as a tank with straightforward leveling, everything being unmemorable - repeat for the next couple of expansions
Back then, all the IRL people I knew and wanted to play with encouraged me to either follow questing guides or "go here" questing addons so I could get to endgame asap. I wouldn't have a chance to enjoy things at my own pace until classic happened, and now after being disillusioned with randoms and the subfee I'd enjoy the content the most through a modded private/solo server.
>Wotlk was when things really started dying down bc the basic storyline driving everything since wc3 (2002) came to an end in 2009, and then the lore kept spinning out of control.
I think around that time is when the Activision acquisition had completed.
There also feels to be a huge difference between vanilla and TBC, some of the biggest being the drawnout leveling and having less variety with dungeons.

>>11885951
>wouldn't have a chance to enjoy things at my own pace until classic happened, and now after being disillusioned with randoms and the subfee I'd enjoy the content the most through a modded private/solo server.
Private seems like the only way now bc idk if blizzard or any other developer can recreate the appeal of the “questing grind” format in an era of pay-to-level and short attention spans. Ironically, wow used to be a social activity re: leveling with friends. I get why they felt they needed to speed up things when app games started becoming huge in the 2010s, but something important was lost. And the expansions generally got worse over time, from what I can tell (I quit during cata and have only gone back to private servers sparingly, not in the last 5 years). Some games like DRG have managed to do it, but it’s still different from the classic vanilla wow feeling of unbounded exploration.
>wotlk
Not the worst expansion, but pretty weak imo.

>>11882530
still exists on hardcore wow

>>11881509
wish you all the best

>>11870019
never 5get

>>11873571
>it blows my mind that it's so obscure
>obscure
WC3 is not obscure to anyone except the zoomiest of zoomers

>>11887640
This. How could anyone on this board consider wc3 an obscure game?

>>11888064
I’m likely reaching here but this board has been having a lot of people feeling nostalgic towards 7th gen. During that time, PC as a whole was treated as “niche” and WoW shadowed almost everything Blizzard had done by that point.

>>11888224
I guess. I remember it being very well known when it released, though. Then again, console peasants abound.

>>11879979
Do you have some sort of brain deficiency that makes it so you can't adapt to change?
Is that why you still manage to get a dopamine hit from doing the one thing you're good at for the 10,000th time?
You killed the genre.

>>11867012 (OP)
Like shooters learning the wrong lessons from Half Life?

>>11873342
WoW is retro, but that does not mean it is "classic" blizzard. WoW is when classic blizzard died.

>>11890338
While forgetting the big things like quick movement, a varied enemy/weapon roster, and not having every "in game cutscene" be as restricted as the train ride? Sure, still a good game though. You can also liken it to people "blaming" War3 for mobas the same way people try to "blame" Halflife for Counterstrike.
>>11890387
We're talking about "retro Blizzard" here, and "classic Blizzard" including War3 was still being debated somewhat.

>>11888303
PC gaming was definitely smaller than console gaming circa 2002, especially with the hype of the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube wars. The majority of people who are aware of the Warcraft brand today stems from World of Warcraft. The hype for Warcraft 3 was drowned out by it's own Custom Games scene, too.

>>11890387
WoW still had it's soul up until the Ulduar patch of Wrath of the Lich King. The raids, design, and fun were good and they didn't destroy it until then. ToGC was considered the first truly "bad" raid. That's when we started getting shit like faction transfer, LFD, and other things that destroyed the game.

Even then there were little embers left over by the time StarCraft 2 was released. I'd consider that game's release marking the official end of the "good Blizzard" era.

>>11890405
Only retards debate whether or not War3 was classic Blizzard or not -- It absolutely was.

>>11890742
>classic Blizzard
This idea of "classic Blizzard" isn't set in stone, but I'd argue it's no later than when they started seeing all the dollar signs in WoW up to the Burning Crusade.

>>11890787
I could see the start of it during WoW, but Blizzard straight out said, "haha, we're going to delay the expansion to one of the biggest PC games ever PAST THE HOLIDAYS" because it wasn't up to their standards. That took balls and that was in 2006/2007.

daily reminder that the classic blizz gen was really fucking good and had awesome OPs and an awesome pastebin and it was ruined by the gay fucking sharty hack where 40% of the site disappeared overnight and then some faggot with a hardon for talking about sc remastered and WoW ruined it all. we need to start that shit up again and anybody who says "yeaaah let's do it but this time we can talk about world of cuckcraft and warcraft poopmastered" is a zoomer faggot who should be drawn and quartered.

>>11891861
I agree completely.

>>11891861
/cbg/ will rise again.

>>11891861
hello,

/cbg/ died because no one posted on it and any talk about playing blizzard games was dead in the water because no one plays on the old clients

>>11890742
>PC gaming was definitely smaller than console gaming circa 2002, especially with the hype of the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube wars. The majority of people who are aware of the Warcraft brand today stems from World of Warcraft. The hype for Warcraft 3 was drowned out by its own Custom Games scene, too.
Of course custom games eventually overshadowed the base game bc they were an endless stream of new content for players. WC3 was probably still in the top 3 rts games throughout the 2000s, though, more so until 2006 since they kept giving it content updates until then.
>>11891861
Sounds like you’re the autist who freaked out over wow and remastered talk and then sperg’d the whole temple down around him.
>>11891893
The fire rises, brother
>>11892214
>nobody posted
There were routinely hundreds of posts covering games, mapmaking, etc. People like >>11891861 ruined it by having fits over posts they didn’t find pure enough.

>>11891861
>>11891876
>>11892214
Doesn't exist. You are delusional separatist cretins. Meds.

>>11891852
>charging for an expansion after all those $15/mo subbucks
I should do some digging into its development since I currently have a horribly cynical impression of it. Were they always planning to do paid expansions?
>>11892829
>There were routinely hundreds of posts covering games, mapmaking, etc. People like >>11891861 ruined it by having fits over posts they didn’t find pure enough.
It was kind of funny how much the "angry WoW talk" generated activity during the gen's infancy. The only real thing I get bummed about when talking about WoW is when I'd post screens and get a few of those "makes me want to resub" replies.
I also really wish Blizzgen happened when those frequent Diablo threads were happening.
>>11892902
We're talking about the "classic Blizzard general" threads, shortened to /cbg/, not a whole other board. This was the first one:
https://warosu.org/vr/thread/11527218

>>11892915
>It was kind of funny how much the "angry WoW talk" generated activity during the gen's infancy. The only real thing I get bummed about when talking about WoW is when I'd post screens and get a few of those "makes me want to resub" replies.
I never got the hate for the wow talk, since vanilla is definitely retro, per the rules. People like talking about wow, it generates interest and bumps the threads. There were plenty of good sc, wc1/2/3 conversations happening in there, too. Diablo got shafted a bit, but the general hardly lasted long enough to see how the typical thread topics would pan out over time. People don’t want to accept that these blue boards are moving targets: what’s retro is always rolling forward and what gets discussed is always going to reflect the ages of the posters. In ten years, zoomers will be talking about call of duty black ops here; nobody will talk about prince of persia except a small share of old heads. /cbg/ broke down bc a few spazzes couldn’t take the truth nuke that wow being retro made them feel old. The remastered stuff was just pure ragequit pedantry.
>b-but technically it’s a new release, no retro, saar

>>11893049
That archived thread actually has the initial discussion about why the OP didn't want any WoW talk:
>>11532879
>>The point of this thread is to discuss Blizzard's classic games, those which were released before an MMO (one of the most pppular and widely-discussed games ever made, no less) that completely changed their business dynamics and the culture of the company. Myself and several others agreed, before this gen was even made, that excluding WoW was the right move, and I stand by it.
I partially agree to some extent about WoW "changing (or ruining) everything", but there's two big things for me: The shift it caused happened well after its initial launch, and it wasn't the only Blizzard game to be so popular that it caused shifts. Starcraft, Warcraft III, Diablo 2, these were all big trendsetters and many genuinely view them like this thread's baity OP does: That they all "ruined vidya" in their own way.