Settle a debate /vr/. Should the most reasonable definition of 'boomer shooter' include the very first generation of true 3D shooters too, or should the cutoff be the pseudo 3D '2.5D' engine games, doom, build etc?

please kill yourself

Of all the fully 3D FPS games, only Quake feels like a boomer shooter to me.

>>11870695
Thats what i was initially leaning towards. Quake has a foot in each era.

Even if I hate it, I've seen the term "boomer shooter" often associated with "arcadey" Doom clones. Games like Turok or Quake are closer to that than things like Delta Force or Rainbow Six.

>>11870680 (OP)
>the very first generation of true 3D shooters too
And that would be?
There's a fuckton of fully 3D polygonal FPS games that came out before Quake you know.

>>11870793
Such as?
Quake was the one that blew the doors off the genre.

>>11870793
>There's a fuckton of fully 3D polygonal FPS games that came out before Quake you know.
Descent comes to mind.

>>11870836
>Descent
That's a flight sim. The Terminator: Future Shock is a better example.

>>11870793
name five.

>>11870897
>That's a flight sim.
It's very unlike Wing Commander, Tie Fighter, or the Microsoft Flight Simulator series and similar "dog fighting" flight sims.

>>11870680 (OP)
boomer shooters should include any level based pistol start applicable game.quake is a boomer shooter, half life 1 is not.

>>11870930
You have to go out of your way to "pistol start" Quake. It "autosaves" your weapon and ammo counts at the start of each level, and the original campaign levels aren't as friendly towards inventory resets like the Dooms were. You have to go only slightly more out of your way when doing the same with Half-Life since you also have to give yourself the suit and crowbar through the console.

>>11870957
fair enough but quake is ultimately still built around distinct self contained levels that are conducive to single run completion even if there's some carry over with weapons and ammo. half life 1 is not a level based game.

>>11870986
>half life 1 is not a level based game.
Mostly is, not when it comes to parts like Blast Pit but it's still no System Shock.

Boomer shooter is MIDI Maze, Terminator 2029, and maybe Wolfenstein 3D. Boomers did not play Quake, Turok, and all this other shit.

>>11870904
Descent 1 and 2
Shock Wave 1 and 2
Geograph Seal
Mechwarrior 2
Magic Carpet 1 and 2
Immercenary

>>11871050
cool now name five that don't suck ass.

>>11870680 (OP)
reminds me of the debate on whether or not halo is an arena shooter.

but back to the topic at hand considering that most retro shooters follow the same hallmarks of...
>being able to carry every weapon
>no health regen
>pistol (or it's equivalent) starts
>key puzzle/mazes
...i'd say either half-life or quake should be the cutoff. "boomer shooter" is a cringe term.

"Boomer shooter" is a cringe term that shouldn't have caught on in the first place.
You have Doom clones, Half Life clones, and arena shooters, and then you have Halo and CoD clones a little after that. An argument could be made for Goldeneye clones as a side-development, but that's basically just Perfect Dark, Timesplitters, and further James Bond games.

I think boomer shooters are level/stage based shooters. After that they became interconnected and story driven

>"boomer shooter"
Consider a rope.

>>11871102
>"Boomer shooter" is a cringe term that shouldn't have caught on in the first place.
Be that as it may, it did catch on and so thats what we are working with.

Only shooters with sprite enemies. Polygon = not boomer.

It's a design decision that I mostly associate with key/door to arena/hallway progression. That's why FEAR is half of a boomer shooter while COD or other "realistic" shooters don't touch the same grounds. It stems from Catacomb 3D and some of UU influencing ID software because they liked fantasy too, and I think some design elements sprung from that.

"Boomer shooter" is such a shitty made up genre, and no one can decide where it ends (some people consider Half Life 2 a fucking boomer shooter)

>>11871891
>It’s a design decision that I mostly associate with key/door to arena/hallway progression.
Like…the “””boomer shooter””” design decision? I associate it most with big weapon and enemy variety.

>>11870680 (OP)
where the hells do you get that game (Unreal) now-a-days?

>>11872069
https://oldunreal.com/downloads/unreal/full-game-installers/
https://oldunreal.com/downloads/unreal/oldunreal-patches/

>>11872383
oh, that works.

>>11871061
I think, to be fair, he has railed you in the ass quite thoroughly. He nailed you on every point with bonus points for added fuckage. I think at this point you should admit defeat, or, if you want to add caveats to your points, cede the points you have lost and then argue the new points you want to stand for. At this point it's pretty clear you are a dicksucking faggot but I will hear your point out.

For it to have any value, I'd say it should apply to m FPS which have
>distinct levels
>mazelike level design with an emphasis on exploration, often combined with key and/or switch hunts
>some amount of resource management/item and health hunting
>clearly defined enemy types, with an emphasis on placement of specific enemies for specific scenarios, to the point that even weak enemies can present a challenge if utilized in an interesting way
But overall the main thing for me is the maze-like stages, not games that rely on moving from combat setpiece to combat setpiece by way of straight paths connected to arenas.

Oh, I see.